The United States is an empire

[Extra Stout]

The United States is an empire.

I do not mean this in the sense of a global economic empire, or in terms of a global superpower with client states. I propose that the area making up the 50 states is an empire. The United States is not a nation-state, that is, it is not organized around the principle of the self-determination of a particular ethnic group or a particular culture. The vision for the United States is that it be organized around a set of political principles that disparate people share, such as the rule of law, democracy, and liberty. However, I believe that for the elites who run the country, these principles are just a convenient lie, an illusion, a fleeting dream to occupy the masses while they, the elites, the oligarchical rulers, run amok.

Historically, an empire is a far-flung, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual state with highly centralized authority, run by a single authoritarian ruler, or by a small political class. In terms of modern-day America, this model seems to fit more than any other. The idea that the people run the government is quaint. If we actually ran the government, we would be throwing both the financiers and those who help themselves to our taxes under the auspices of "bailing them out" into prison, or, were we not so "civilized," just stringing them up in the gallows or shooting them in the back of the head.

No, instead we are a cowed and coerced people, content with the bread and circuses that in just a few years' time will have gone from sacrosanct entitlement to fading memory. We are the subjects of our imperial masters.

Discuss.

[RandomGuy]

Et tu, Brutus?


Some ring of truth, but mostly exaggeration. Gotta get back to work, tho' so I will stop there.

I would ask, though, what would you propose to improve the situation?

[DarkReign]

Some ring of truth, but mostly exaggeration. Gotta get back to work, tho' so I will stop there.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Vehemently. Whether it is an accurate portrayal of present-day America is debateable. But ES surely has the (near-)future nailed to a tee.


I would ask, though, what would you propose to improve the situation?

Death. Lots of it. Those who hold power do not submit willingly.

[clambake]

time for our Bastille?

[MannyIsGod]

The standard of living is far too high in this country for any type of violent revolution.

[SouthernFried]

Thou doth protest too much...

We've got exactly what we've allowed to happen.

Founders knew it would happen, and anyone with eyes could...and can see it happening right now.

We've had our chances to change things, but most people want more of the same, and more...and more.

I'm sure there were people in Rome who said..." y'know, this vomitorium thing...mebbe we're going a little too far here?"

but the majority just said..." Nah, quit listening to Limbaugh and eat up!"

and so it goes...

[DarkReign]

The standard of living is far too high in this country for any type of violent revolution.

Damn good point. But our living standard cannot stay at current levels with a fall of our currency.

[Bartleby]

but the majority just said..." Nah, quit listening to Limbaugh and eat up!"

and so it goes...

If that fat windbag is our Cassandra then we're even more fucked than I thought.

[MannyIsGod]

Damn good point. But our living standard cannot stay at current levels with a fall of our currency.

I think its overblown. The people of this country still have a lot of material wealth.

I agree with the premise of what ES is saying - kinda. I think the people here are happy though, and the happiness leads to apathy. Is it really that we aren't in control or we simply don't give a shit what happens? We could take the reins quite easily but most people don't feel the need to because they're generally satisfied with life.

[Blake]

The United States is an empire.

I do not mean this in the sense of a global economic empire, or in terms of a global superpower with client states. I propose that the area making up the 50 states is an empire. The United States is not a nation-state, that is, it is not organized around the principle of the self-determination of a particular ethnic group or a particular culture. The vision for the United States is that it be organized around a set of political principles that disparate people share, such as the rule of law, democracy, and liberty. However, I believe that for the elites who run the country, these principles are just a convenient lie, an illusion, a fleeting dream to occupy the masses while they, the elites, the oligarchical rulers, run amok.

Historically, an empire is a far-flung, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual state with highly centralized authority, run by a single authoritarian ruler, or by a small political class. In terms of modern-day America, this model seems to fit more than any other. The idea that the people run the government is quaint. If we actually ran the government, we would be throwing both the financiers and those who help themselves to our taxes under the auspices of "bailing them out" into prison, or, were we not so "civilized," just stringing them up in the gallows or shooting them in the back of the head.

No, instead we are a cowed and coerced people, content with the bread and circuses that in just a few years' time will have gone from sacrosanct entitlement to fading memory. We are the subjects of our imperial masters.

Discuss.

just curious, did you vote in this last election?

[Blake]

but the majority just said..." Nah, quit listening to Limbaugh and eat up!"



eh?

[clambake]

let's see what happens when unemployment balloons to 15%.

[Bartleby]

No worries, cheap booze and cable TV will keep people in line for a while.

[MannyIsGod]

let's see what happens when unemployment balloons to 15%.

The 15% that are out of work will bitch and moan.

You honestly think another 6% unemployment would be enough to get people in this country thinking revolution? Yeah effing right.

[TDMVPDPOY]

The 15% that are out of work will bitch and moan.

You honestly think another 6% unemployment would be enough to get people in this country thinking revolution? Yeah effing right.
so what is the % unemployment now? double it and you get the real figure of unemployment....there are people out there thats not on welfare and looking for work which hasnt been counted yet

[FreeMason]

I am just glad we rebounded so quickly from the American Revolution after Carter's term.

[Winehole23]

I am just glad we rebounded so quickly from the American Revolution after Carter's term.Do you mean the Bicentennial? Is this a freedom of '76 joke?

[lefty]

I have one thing to say about the U.S :

Damn, it's huge !!!!

[Winehole23]

The United States is an empire.

I do not mean this in the sense of a global economic empire, or in terms of a global superpower with client states. I propose that the area making up the 50 states is an empire. The United States is not a nation-state, that is, it is not organized around the principle of the self-determination of a particular ethnic group or a particular culture. The vision for the United States is that it be organized around a set of political principles that disparate people share, such as the rule of law, democracy, and liberty. However, I believe that for the elites who run the country, these principles are just a convenient lie, an illusion, a fleeting dream to occupy the masses while they, the elites, the oligarchical rulers, run amok.Culture is the ideological superstructure of power. True. To a degree.

I do not think power eliminates the culture it seeks to dominate. Take as evidence your own homily below about moral sentiments relating to patriotic violence:


If we actually ran the government, we would be throwing both the financiers and those who help themselves to our taxes under the auspices of "bailing them out" into prison, or, were we not so "civilized," just stringing them up in the gallows or shooting them in the back of the head.



Historically, an empire is a far-flung, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual state with highly centralized authority, run by a single authoritarian ruler, or by a small political class. We fit the description. For at least the last sixty years or so.

How far back would you take it, ES?

[Winehole23]

I agree with the premise of what ES is saying - kinda. I think the people here are happy though, and the happiness leads to apathy. Is it really that we aren't in control or we simply don't give a shit what happens? We could take the reins quite easily but most people don't feel the need to because they're generally satisfied with life.That's very clearly elaborated from the OP. It emphasizes ES's point about venality, but introduces the theme of hedonism. Fat and happy much?

Thanks for saying something actually germane, MIG. You'd be surprised how uncommon that is around here.

(Disclosure: I am a prime offender in this category.)

[Winehole23]

time for our Bastille?you first:lol

[clambake]

there are those who could very well become desperate.

i think a dramatic increase in crime will resemble a sign of revolt.

[Winehole23]

there are those who could very well become desperate.

i think a dramatic increase in crime will resemble a sign of revolt.Bold. A sign of revolt will have been resembled, then. Can you tell me where it all leads?

Got immiseration?

[clambake]

Got immiseration?

i've had to layoff 32 people in the last 11 weeks, so i've seen it.

[RandomGuy]

I'm sure there were people in Rome who said..." y'know, this vomitorium thing...mebbe we're going a little too far here?"

I saw something on the history channel where they actually set this straight. A vomitorium is not a place where you go to throw up after partying to excess. That is actually an urban legend.

Because I am an internet know it all, however, I dig a bit of digging to find a source to back this up.


Rather a vomitorium was a passageway in an amphitheater or theater that opened into a tier of seats from below or behind. The vomitoria of the Colosseum in Rome were so well designed that it's said the immense venue, which seated at least 50,000, could fill in 15 minutes. (There were 80 entrances at ground level, 76 for ordinary spectators and 4 for the imperial family.) The vomitoria deposited mobs of people into their seats and afterward disgorged them with equal abruptness into the streets--whence, presumably, the name.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2421/were-there-really-vomitoriums-in-ancient-rome

[RandomGuy]

I think its overblown. The people of this country still have a lot of material wealth.

I agree with the premise of what ES is saying - kinda. I think the people here are happy though, and the happiness leads to apathy. Is it really that we aren't in control or we simply don't give a shit what happens? We could take the reins quite easily but most people don't feel the need to because they're generally satisfied with life.

I agree.

[Winehole23]

i've had to layoff 32 people in the last 11 weeks, so i've seen it.Sorry about that clambake. That sucks.

[Winehole23]

Sorry for the barb.

[Blake]

there are those who could very well become desperate.

i think a dramatic increase in crime will resemble a sign of revolt.

ehh......revolution is more of a proactive action while desperation is more reactive......

Define what crime(s) exactly you think will increase

[clambake]

Sorry for the barb.

i'm sorry for the people. some have been with me for 7+ years.

unemployment is going to explode. we haven't seen anything, yet.

[Blake]

i'm sorry for the people. some have been with me for 7+ years.

unemployment is going to explode. we haven't seen anything, yet.

I believe you. Good time to go back to school to become more valuable.

[Winehole23]

I believe you. Good time to go back to school to become more valuable.I have been thinking this exactly. I should, just to give you guys a break.

[clambake]

Define what crime(s) exactly you think will increase

not the crime committed, but the actors committing it, and the reasons for these actions will not reflect the motives of your common criminal.

[balli]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/nyregion/10crime.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
Abridged
It is the question on the minds of New Yorkers, once they stop pondering the fate of their 401(k)’s: If the city’s economy sinks to depths not seen in decades, will crime return with a vengeance?

Expert opinions differ, but the question is hardly illogical. The last time stocks on Wall Street fell hard, in 1987, crime was exploding, and the city saw historic highs in murders in the following years.

Before that, the fiscal crisis of the 1970s helped lead to the abandonment of neighborhoods, failing schools and startling crime rates: robberies built through those years to a high in 1981, when there were 107,495 of them, for an average of 294 a day. (Last year’s total reported robberies, 21,787, was the lowest figure in modern history.)

“Every recession since the late ’50s has been associated with an increase in crime and, in particular, property crime and robbery, which would be most responsive to changes in economic conditions,” said Richard Rosenfeld, a sociologist at the University of Missouri-St. Louis. Typically, he said, “there is a year lag between the economic change and crime rates.”

[Blake]

not the crime committed, but the actors committing it, and the reasons for these actions will not reflect the motives of your common criminal.

uh, ok. I'd ask for examples, but I don't really want to go down that road.

[The Reckoning]

americans are too fat and lazy to be blue collar criminals

[Winehole23]

uh, ok. I'd ask for examples, but I don't really want to go down that road.I think he was just saying that more normal people will resort to crime. People who maybe don't fit the normal profile for their particular crime.

[Winehole23]

americans are too fat and lazy to be blue collar criminalsHow about no-collar criminals?

[The Reckoning]

seriously, the only violent revolution we'll have is if krispy kreme goes out of business and the government refuses to bail them out

[Blake]

I think he was just saying that more normal people will resort to crime. People who maybe don't fit the normal profile for their particular crime.

:lol

I'd ask what you mean by "normal"........but I know what you mean....

[Winehole23]

Is the US an empire, yes or no?


ES sees us as an oligarchy: we're their ball-gargle. This interpretation goes back as far as you care to grow.

I say yes.

I think something very similar to ES, but would stress the dimensions that the Cold War, national security state and Great Society have added to the Beast.

[The Reckoning]

uh im pretty sure being the only superpower in the world in the only time in history assures us as being considered an empire.

[Winehole23]

uh im pretty sure being the only superpower in the world in the only time in history assures us as being considered an empire.I thought I'd try to revive the spirit of the OP, is all.

[Blake]

I don't like trying to put classifications on things much.......

but what is the definition we are using for 'empire'? It apparently can mean different things. ES says he doesn't mean empire in terms of the US having states (territories?) across the globe but instead he turns it and says look at it in a domestic light.

Well, in historical terms, an empire has nothing but global connotations to it. As Wine pointed out, what he is saying really is that we are an oligarchy.........which I have no problems with. Hard to argue that since most of the politicians come from families that have acquired great amounts of wealth over many generations.

That said, even though we have a small list of rich people to pick our politicians from, we still picked Obama......who didn't really come from a family that had generations of wealth.

Hell, maybe we aren't even talking about politicians. If you wanna say this country's policies are controlled by big businesses, then I can't really argue that much and in that sense, we are definitely an oligarchy.

Which empire is more powerful......the USA or WalMart? If the U.S went to war with Wal Mart, I wouldn't put it past Wal Mart employees to successfully employ guerilla tactics, using all of those rifles and ammo from the outdoors section.

[Winehole23]

Which empire is more powerful......the USA or WalMart? If the U.S went to war with Wal Mart, I wouldn't put it past Wal Mart employees to successfully employ guerilla tactics, using all of those rifles and ammo from the outdoors section.Our patriotic stormtroopers will crush them; our patriotic accountants will feed on their remains.

Wal-Mart vs. USA?

USA, all the way.

[Spurminator]

All we'd have to do is give $800 Trillion to Target. Problem solved, war over.

[Extra Stout]

"in historical terms, an empire has nothing but global connotations to it."

In which historical terms, exactly? Until the colonial era, empires were regional, with the exception of the Mongols.

Oh, and the Ottomans. The caliphate was seriously huge up until WWI. Read about it and think about how that might affect a Muslim's view of the world. OK, separate topic.

[Winehole23]

Oh, and the Ottomans. The caliphate was seriously huge up until WWI. Read about it and think about how that might affect a Muslim's view of the world. OK, separate topic.It is striking how Islamic heraldry as reflected on the various national flags now has such a strongly Ottoman flavor. Take your star and crescent, for example. It is a Turkish imperial symbol.

Are you familiar with that flick where Ben Kingsley plays an aging and insignificant Ottoman spy? You probably already knew Turkey at one time had the world's largest intelligence bureau.

Oh well. Anyway. Thanks for the OP. Looks like some people don't want to say what they really think. Can't say I much blame em.

[Creepn]

If we actually ran the government, we would be throwing both the financiers and those who help themselves to our taxes under the auspices of "bailing them out" into prison, or, were we not so "civilized," just stringing them up in the gallows or shooting them in the back of the head.



How do we take over? We all gather up our guns and march to DC and demand them all to resign? How do we revolutionize without us having to face one of the strongest military in the world?

[Wild Cobra]

No, instead we are a cowed and coerced people, content with the bread and circuses that in just a few years' time will have gone from sacrosanct entitlement to fading memory. We are the subjects of our imperial masters.

I agree that a majority of the people fall into that category, and that is truly sad. I won't claim that others like don't. I know people off all walks of life have those who do and do not fall into that category.

In general, I agree.

[Wild Cobra]

i've had to layoff 32 people in the last 11 weeks, so i've seen it.
Excuse my surprise, but with the pattern and content of your posts, I refuse to believe you are in any type of management of executive position!

[PixelPusher]

Excuse my surprise, but with the pattern and content of your posts, I refuse to believe you are in any type of management of executive position!

^
:lmao

That is fucking hilarious. The insulation of your right wing radio cocoon has no equal.

[clambake]

Excuse my surprise, but with the pattern and content of your posts, I refuse to believe you are in any type of management of executive position!

i'm an owner, and i wish you had worked for me.

then i would have been disappointed only 31 times.

[LnGrrrR]

i'm an owner, and i wish you had worked for me.

then i would have been disappointed only 31 times.

Oh... SNAP!

[Wild Cobra]

i'm an owner, and i wish you had worked for me.

then i would have been disappointed only 31 times.
Well, you would be lucky to have an employee like me. I would probably never take a job from you anyway. What type of business? I'm an automation equipment technician. Very similar to a millwright, but far more technical knowledge is needed.

[clambake]

why don't you stop by and work on my washing machine?

[Wild Cobra]

why don't you stop by and work on my washing machine?
Too simple. Why would I want to anyway? Besides, you're not in the Portland, OR metro area. Right?

[clambake]

you too good to work on washing machines?

[Wild Cobra]

you too good to work on washing machines?
I've repaired them before. Why would I want to work on yours? My free time is valuable. You going to pay me $200 per hour for taking away my free time?

[clambake]

it takes you an hour to fix a washing machine?

i don't think anyone needs an employee to milk the clock.

[BradLohaus]

I wonder if it has been an accident that the term "states' rights" has come to be translated as "slavery wasn't THAT bad."

You think that the Feds have too much control? You think the states should have more power!? That's what the slave owners said! I took a political science class!

[DarkReign]

i'm an owner, and i wish you had worked for me.

then i would have been disappointed only 31 times.

Ha...niiiice.

[Blake]

"in historical terms, an empire has nothing but global connotations to it."

In which historical terms, exactly? Until the colonial era, empires were regional, with the exception of the Mongols.

Oh, and the Ottomans. The caliphate was seriously huge up until WWI. Read about it and think about how that might affect a Muslim's view of the world. OK, separate topic.


In your op, you throw this out there:


The idea that the people run the government is quaint. If we actually ran the government, we would be throwing both the financiers and those who help themselves to our taxes under the auspices of "bailing them out" into prison, or, were we not so "civilized," just stringing them up in the gallows or shooting them in the back of the head.

No, instead we are a cowed and coerced people, content with the bread and circuses that in just a few years' time will have gone from sacrosanct entitlement to fading memory. We are the subjects of our imperial masters.


'Global' was probably not a great word to use, but when I think 'empire', I think of one base country moving into and taking over another, whether by force or not. I don't see 'empire' as being a form of government as you seem to be suggesting.

But...since there have been many different types of empires, I'm thinking the definition is varied, so if you put out what your definition of 'empire' is then I'll give you a better yes or no answer whether the US is an empire.

[BradLohaus]

Historically, an empire is a far-flung, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual state with highly centralized authority, run by a single authoritarian ruler, or by a small political class. In terms of modern-day America, this model seems to fit more than any other. The idea that the people run the government is quaint. If we actually ran the government, we would be throwing both the financiers and those who help themselves to our taxes under the auspices of "bailing them out" into prison, or, were we not so "civilized," just stringing them up in the gallows or shooting them in the back of the head.

No, instead we are a cowed and coerced people, content with the bread and circuses...

It really can't be put any better than that in one paragraph. Nobody ever talks about the US as an empire within itself. That really is a helpful way to look at it.

Anybody want to attempt to assign a birth date to the US empire? When did we first meet all the requirements?

[Winehole23]

Anybody want to attempt to assign a birth date to the US empire? When did we first meet all the requirements?WH23, PFA.



First two decades of the 20th century?

TR gave modern America it's first taste of activist government. Income taxes superceded US Customs as a funding source. Liberal wars for humanitarian causes abroad became seriously the style. Mass production of mass culture had just begun in earnest.

The dumbening was just barely underway; the US was a rising power.

[Winehole23]

Excuse my surprise, but with the pattern and content of your posts, I refuse to believe you are in any type of management of executive position!After a long rout of abusive, disorderly posts, WC gets Pecksniffian on clambake.

Another timeless classic.

[Winehole23]

Well, you would be lucky to have an employee like me. I would probably never take a job from you anyway. What type of business? I'm an automation equipment technician. Very similar to a millwright, but far more technical knowledge is needed.OTOH, I commend you for the courage of your confiding spirit of disclosure.

You didn't have to share -- it might have been wise not to -- but just the same, count me suitably impressed.:toast

[Wild Cobra]

it takes you an hour to fix a washing machine?

i don't think anyone needs an employee to milk the clock.
See, remarks like that are why I believe you are too stupid to have employees to lay off.

$200 per hour... does not mean it takes an hour! It might take five minutes, it might take three hours or more depending on the problem and parts needed.

$200 x 5 min = less than $20. Of course, like any good business there would be a minimum charge. After all, what would my travel time be, hypothetically, if you lived in this area rather than California? Think I'm going to waste say a 45 minute round trip travel time for free?

[boutons_]

Crime rate is directly related to poverty rate.

Crime rate is directly related to wealth (the finanical sector, corp chiefs, D.C., politicians at all levels) but that crime all right with right-wingers.

It's the poor criminals they wanna beat up on while keeping them in poverty (also keeps the commercial prison corps raking in the $Bs in tax dollars, another way corps fuck us over)

[clambake]

See, remarks like that are why I believe you are too stupid to have employees to lay off.

i have major perception skills, too.

does this sound familiar?

them: "hey jackass, i thought you said it was fixed?"

wild cobra: " i would like to be referred to as technician."

[Extra Stout]

"'Global' was probably not a great word to use, but when I think 'empire', I think of one base country moving into and taking over another, whether by force or not."

Manifest Destiny.

[2centsworth]

i gotta tell you clambake, for an owner, you are very childish. I talk to business owners all the time and I have never met one as silly as you, but of course i don't live in Dallas.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I agree with your assertion that the United States is not a nation state (and has an imperial construction) but i don't believe we are slaves to anyone.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111690



The United States has historically sought integration over marginalization (with the obvious caveat that some groups are integrated much faster than others) and litigation over violence. The fact that Americans have never experienced an organized and systematic terrorist campaign is primarily a product of the construction of American national identity and the way marginalized groups seek empowerment in American society.

The precise definition of a “nation” is the geographical area that encompasses an ethnic or cultural population. The United States does not have a monolithic ethnicity, and American nationalism is better understood as glorified statism. The cult of the enlightenment that our founding fathers developed between 1776 and 1789 is the ideological bond that informs the American conception of national identity, and this overarching ideology has manifested itself in the constitutionalism we know today. This unique brand of nationalism has created a culture in which state validation has far more psychological power than cultural validation, and it is the reason why ethnic, class, and social minorities have sought governmental recognition instead of societal recognition. This trend is exemplified by the civil rights movement, the feminist movement, and in contemporary society, the gay rights movement.

In most other societies, where national identities have no overarching connection with the framework of the state itself, marginalized groups are more likely to challenge the state or dominant cultural norms violently. This is because a society that lacks institutions like the Supreme Court or the Constitution, institutions that all segments of society are ideologically connected to, has more trouble producing centralized normative statements that effect genuine shifts in cultural attitudes.

[Blake]

Manifest Destiny.

not sure what that has to do with the American people stringing up financiers at the gallows, but in that sense, ok, I see the US as an empire.

[Blake]

This unique brand of nationalism has created a culture in which state validation has far more psychological power than cultural validation, and it is the reason why ethnic, class, and social minorities have sought governmental recognition instead of societal recognition. This trend is exemplified by the civil rights movement, the feminist movement, and in contemporary society, the gay rights movement.

it is a minor reason.......not "the" reason.

[Winehole23]

'Global' was probably not a great word to use, but when I think 'empire', I think of one base country moving into and taking over another, whether by force or not. I don't see 'empire' as being a form of government as you seem to be suggesting.What do you call it when our form of government seems like a dumbshow that conceals the shadowy machinations of money behind the scenes? Oligarchy is one word. Empire is another.

In the sense that Bill Gates or T. Boone Pickens or Warren Buffett control empires, we are an empire.

And I know it's bad form to say it in public, but we got aristocracy in America.

If you're not sure whether you are an aristocrat or not, you're not.

[clambake]

i gotta tell you clambake, for an owner, you are very childish. I talk to business owners all the time and I have never met one as silly as you,
i'm not childish or silly regarding business, and guys like you and WC should never be taken seriously. you two care more about your selfish needs than you do about what has happened to your country.

but of course i don't live in Dallas.
i don't live in dallas, but it's very impressive how you attempt to stereotype by using geography.

see what i mean about you and WC?

[Winehole23]

FWIW clambake, I don't put 2centsworth and WC in the same bin. They may have clambake persecution in common, but they share little else from what I can tell.

[RandomGuy]

How do we take over? We all gather up our guns and march to DC and demand them all to resign? How do we revolutionize without us having to face one of the strongest military in the world?

You say that as if the US Armed Forces would blindly obey orders to shuffle people into detention centers en masse, or fire on US citizens.

I think people tend to forget the volunteer nature of our military and the fact that our military is composed of thinking individuals who are, as a whole, capable of demonstrating a degree of self-autonomy and independence unheard of in the history of standing armies.

That is not to say that they won't follow orders when given, and that some will blindly follow any order, but one has to consider the unique character of the US military.

Consider the case example of the Tiannanmen massacre.

The locally stationed unit of the People's Liberation Army would not fire on the civilians there and essentially tried to simply keep things from turning violent.

The massacre happened when the central government ordered outside troops in from other provinces, with the same orders to suppress the uprising that the local unit (the 27th Army if memory serves) would not obey.

Culturally there is a bit of a difference between the Chinese army and the US army, in that the Chinese army as a whole takes on a role analogous to the National Gaurd, in terms of helping people in disasters and such.

This example is useful in this case, though, because the soldiers perception of their mission and their willingness to follow orders that violate the perception of that mission is roughly similar.

I took an oath to uphold the constitution, and protect our nation, and that oath was pretty important to me.

That feeling was/is not unique to me. Our soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines take that oath in general just as seriously in my experience.

This is partly the reason I tend to take with a grain of salt conspiracy nuts who claim that the military is getting ready to, or ever would, really use much deadly force against civilians.

There is actually a brigade or so of some unit that has been drilled and is on standby to deploy within the US in case of some wide-scale attack/disaster in order to secure an area hit by a storm or nuclear/chemical/biological attack, but this is ONE brigade with a limited and clear mission scope, and not the entire military.

[RandomGuy]

I think people tend to forget the volunteer nature of our military and the fact that our military is composed of thinking individuals who are, as a whole, capable of demonstrating a degree of self-autonomy and independence unheard of in the history of standing armies.

A good example of this difference happens when the US military does exchanges with foreign militaries.

I remember some of my buddies telling me stories about exchanges/exercises done with the South Korean military.

The South Korean intel officers were astounded by the fact that enlisted privates and NCOs (sergeants) were doing jobs that were only trusted to officers in the ROK army, because they required both training and a degree of autonomy that was/is unheard of in the ROK army.

[Winehole23]

The only US institutions capable of leading and surviving a coup are the US armed forces. No other American institutions have the necessary prestige or are as beloved.

You can win a revolution in the USA. But you have to get the armed services on board.

[101A]

How do we take over? We all gather up our guns and march to DC and demand them all to resign? How do we revolutionize without us having to face one of the strongest military in the world?

I believe that is the point.