Did San Antonio Do The Fans A Disservice Last Night? (Dime)

[duncan228]

This angle is mixed in other threads, please merge if it belongs somewhere else. :)

Did San Antonio do the fans a disservice last night? (http://dimemag.com/2009/02/did-san-antonio-do-the-fans-a-disservice-last-night/)
By Austin Burton

Here’s how I ended up with 22 e-mails titled “Re: This is Bullshit” in my inbox last night…

Sometime before Tuesday’s Spurs/Nuggets game, “The Jed” sent out a news item to the rest of the Dime crew about Gregg Popovich giving Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili the night off. (Manu reportedly had a bruised hip, but he looked fine scoring 32 points in 34 minutes of Monday’s game in Oakland.)

Jed’s take on it: “Honestly, the league should fine the Spurs for this. I know they can’t and I get why they did it, but people pay a lot of money to go to an NBA game (ESPECIALLY with the economy the way it is), and you get to the game and the Spurs rest their three best players? That stinks. I think it’s fine to rest a guy for a day or two, but to do their three best players for the same game blows.”

Dime’s Pat Cassidy later added: “Watching the Spurs might be the equivalent of watching paint dry (http://dimemag.com/2008/04/why-do-you-hate-the-spurs/), but that’s still not right. There are probably lots of kids in Denver who for whatever reason love Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and their parents swallowed the $500 or so it costs to take a family to an NBA game and when they get there, Popovich decides he’s sitting all of his stars? Not cool. The NBA is an entertainment product. People pay exorbitant amounts of money to watch that product. Unless those guys are physically unable to perform, they have to play.”

Apparently I was the only one who didn’t seem to have a problem with Pop’s move. To be real, I think it’s just another case of Spurs-induced haterism, and if this was any other team, nobody would have made an issue of it. Here’s how I see it: When you buy a ticket you’re paying to see two teams, and while you obviously prefer to see the best talent, you’re not guaranteed to see certain players. No one seems to have a problem with Major League Baseball teams routinely giving stars nights off. In the NBA, no one complains when Phoenix gives Shaq a night off. I’m sure Rockets fans wouldn’t mind if T-Mac and Yao were given some nights off. And from what I recall, the Wizards occasionally rested Michael Jordan (or at least they wanted to, and Mike wouldn’t let them). Think about what the Spurs are looking at: Duncan is 32 years old, he’s got a ton of mileage on him, and before last night he’d played every single game this season while covering for Parker and Manu’s injuries. In fact, TD’s 35-plus minutes a night is the most he’s played since the ‘03-04 season. Why wouldn’t you give him a night off here and there? The West is close, but you don’t win any awards for playing all 82 games.

The argument went on like that all night. After a while, we decided to take it to DimeMag.com and get the readers’ opinion.

Do you think the Spurs did the fans a disservice by sitting Duncan, Parker and Ginobili last night?

[ORION]

oh so now people want to watch the spurs play

[024]

ginobili had an excuse. i would be pretty pissed too if spurs came here to LA, played the clippers, benched the starters, and i already spent $50-60 on a ticket to watch them. it wouldn't be every day i see the spurs so this would be a special event for me, unlike those who has a chance to go to every spurs home game. spurs have fans everywhere, and you can tell from the cheering from last night that there were quite a few spurs fans there. how often do spurs fans living in denver get to see their team? not seeing duncan and parker must have been disappointing if they had waited all season long just to see this one spurs game live.

[tp2021]

oh so know people want to watch the spurs play

+1

Haters, the lot of ya!

[spursfan09]

oh so know people want to watch the spurs play

:rollin

I know right?

[FreeMason]

They did.

But BFD...

[nkdlunch]

But I thought Duncan was boring. Pop did a service to the fans, made the game more interesting. :lol

[xtremesteven33]

i can see how NBA fans are upset. But theyve got to remember that this is a team that looks at the big picture all the time. They could care less about putting on a show. They look down the road and see how this could benefit them.

But i do see why alot of fans are pissed off.

[nkdlunch]

Dime’s Pat Cassidy later added: “Watching the Spurs might be the equivalent of watching paint dry (http://dimemag.com/2008/04/why-do-you-hate-the-spurs/), but that’s still not right. There are probably lots of kids in Denver who for whatever reason love Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and their parents swallowed the $500 or so it costs to take a family to an NBA game and when they get there, Popovich decides he’s sitting all of his stars? Not cool. The NBA is an entertainment product. People pay exorbitant amounts of money to watch that product. Unless those guys are physically unable to perform, they have to play.”


wow this guy is a dumb as they come.

First of all, he quotes an article from 1 year ago. Then he goes to say kids love Duncan and Parker for "whatever reason". Totally conflicting his article

Then he goes on to imply that a "poor" family that pays 500 for tickets, would have rather spent the money on food + utilities.

[FromWayDowntown]

Dime’s Pat Cassidy later added: . . . . "There are probably lots of kids in Denver who for whatever reason love Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. . . ."

Asinine. Who for whatever reason? Really?

As for the nonsensical take that Popovich is somehow obligated to play his guys when healthy, I think the author of the piece is absolutely right in wondering where the cries of injustice are when the Suns sit Shaq on certain back-to-backs? Is Shaq somehow entitled to that kind of coddling while Duncan isn't? According to Cassidy's "for whatever reason" nonsense, it would seem that more people are aggreived when Shaq sits -- after all, there's no "for whatever reason" attached to fan's love of Shaq, but some kids scrape the bottom of the barrel in admiring Duncan or Parker.

Popovich did the smart thing last night. As someone who routinely buys tickets for NBA games, I don't feel I've been done an injustice when a team's stars sit, no matter what the reason behind it. It happens. There are no guarantees when you buy tickets and if you are going to see stars and not the teams, I think you set yourself up for disappointment. Popovich's first obligation is to his team. He's done this before (he did it in a 2005 game at Phoenix, resting both Duncan and Ginobili after each had played long minutes in a home game against New Jersey the night before -- it resulted in Robert Sarver's "chicken" comments) and few cared then.

[ClingingMars]

the 2 other writes are fucking retards. the author seems to be the only one who gets it.

-Mars

[024]

As someone who routinely buys tickets for NBA games, I don't feel I've been done an injustice when a team's stars sit, no matter what the reason behind it.

what if you were a spurs fan living in denver? and you just spent $50 for a ticket to see them this one time during the season? suns rested shaq but they never rested shaq, stoudemire, and nash all at the same time.

as a coaching decision, i thought popovich made the correct call. seeing bynum, CP3, nelson, billups, and williams go down isn't a good sign. an injury right now to parker, duncan, and ginobili will screw up the chemistry needed for the playoffs.

[degenerate_gambler]

Popovich did the smart thing last night.



The beautiful thing about what Pop did last nite is he could care less what fans, media and/or the Association thinks.

He made a decision and stuck to it...

[EricB]

what if you were a spurs fan living in denver? and you just spent $50 for a ticket to see them this one time during the season? suns rested shaq but they never rested shaq, stoudemire, and nash all at the same time.

as a coaching decision, i thought popovich made the correct call. seeing bynum, CP3, nelson, billups, and williams go down isn't a good sign. an injury right now to parker, duncan, and ginobili will screw up the chemistry needed for the playoffs.



First off the spurs played in Denver twice. Second if your a SPURS fan u go to see the team.

[FromWayDowntown]

what if you were a spurs fan living in denver? and you just spent $50 for a ticket to see them this one time during the season? suns rested shaq but they never rested shaq, stoudemire, and nash all at the same time.

as a coaching decision, i thought popovich made the correct call. seeing bynum, CP3, nelson, billups, and williams go down isn't a good sign. an injury right now to parker, duncan, and ginobili will screw up the chemistry needed for the playoffs.

Suppose that instead of telling the media that he was just resting his guys, that Popovich announced that Parker and Duncan wouldn't play because each had broken some team rule and would serve a one-game suspension while in uniform. Would he be justified then?

Or suppose that Pop had started Duncan and Parker, but played each of them only for the first 30 seconds of the game before removing them and never putting them back? Would there still be bitching about his decision?

I don't get this whole notion that Pop and the Spurs owe some obligation to the fans to send the stars out there every night. Fans who buy tickets for games in the expectation of seeing a particular player set themselves up for a very real chance at disappointment because of injuries, a need for rest, suspensions, foul troubles, or any number of other things. Thus, any fan who thinks that Pop owes an obligation to him to play his stars just because of the chance that someone in the arena bought tickets to see those stars is delusional. Yes, more often than not, it's not an issue; but there are plenty of times that those who want to see stars are disappointed and a coach cannot subjugate the needs of his team (or his obligations to his employers) to the unreasonable expectations of fans.

[jdiggy0424]

not really. People don't understand that going back to back on the road can be very tiring. The spurs were obviously tired and banged up (i think they arrived at 4:30 am), and this was a way for pop to rest the starters. If kids want to see tim duncan and co. play, they can watch the playoffs. Its the risk you take when you buy the ticket

But i can see where they were getting at though. if i bought a ticket for a lakers game, i expect to see kobe play.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I for one would like to thank Pop for letting me watch Scrubs and Leverage last night guilt free despite the game being on.

[hater]

the fans and their kids can go suck it

[The Truth #6]

I actually preferred watching our scrubs last night. I wanted to see more Hill and Hairston and this was the only way it was going to happen.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Haha... nobody says anything when the Kings and the Clippers do it every night.

[Galileo]

The real crime was resting Finley.

Reading Pat Cassidy is about as interesting as listening to ice fishing on the radio.

[FromWayDowntown]

From a basketball standpoint, I think one side effect of Pop's decision will be to revive the confidence of some of the role players, at least on the offensive end. While Denver wasn't at full strength, either, the Spurs' role players were nevertheless able to put up nearly 100 points against a quality club. Certainly, the Spurs don't need -- and won't get -- that kind of production out of the role players when the Big Three play. But if it helps Roger Mason, Jr. to feel that he can continue to be productive, it's a good thing. If it identifies that Malik Hairston can or can't play, it's a good thing. If it gives much-needed court work to Ime Udoka and Jacque Vaughn, it's a good thing.

[024]

Suppose that instead of telling the media that he was just resting his guys, that Popovich announced that Parker and Duncan wouldn't play because each had broken some team rule and would serve a one-game suspension while in uniform. Would he be justified then?

Or suppose that Pop had started Duncan and Parker, but played each of them only for the first 30 seconds of the game before removing them and never putting them back? Would there still be bitching about his decision?

I don't get this whole notion that Pop and the Spurs owe some obligation to the fans to send the stars out there every night. Fans who buy tickets for games in the expectation of seeing a particular player set themselves up for a very real chance at disappointment because of injuries, a need for rest, suspensions, foul troubles, or any number of other things. Thus, any fan who thinks that Pop owes an obligation to him to play his stars just because of the chance that someone in the arena bought tickets to see those stars is delusional. Yes, more often than not, it's not an issue; but there are plenty of times that those who want to see stars are disappointed and a coach cannot subjugate the needs of his team (or his obligations to his employers) to the unreasonable expectations of fans.

there's no obligation but can you see how it would disappoint spurs fans in denver? or does wanting to see duncan and parker play not make someone a spurs fan? this isn't "every night," this is the only night (or two) spurs fans in denver get to watch the spurs play. you have the chance to watch the spurs play every home game, others don't. don't tell me you won't be disappointed or somewhat mad if the only spurs game you saw live didn't include duncan, ginobili, AND parker.

again, i understand ginobili sitting out but duncan and parker weren't suspended or injured, just tired. you can't compare this to a suspension or injury. people are complaining because they were pro athletes capable of playing. injury can happen anytime. to prevent injury to any spurs member, why not just call up the entire austin toros and hold an open audition against the nuggets so that the role players don't get hurt?

[hater]

yes it is dissapointing. but a real fan would see the benefit to the team and be ok with it.

[SenorSpur]

I heard that, after the game, Pop uttered these reasons for the DNP status of his Big Three:

Manu: "Injured hip and needed rest"
TP: "Just got nominated to the All-Star team and got the big head, so I'm sitting him out for one game to teach him a lesson"
TD: "Has been squawking about wanting to renegotiate his contract. Sitting him down for one game"

Priceless!

[FromWayDowntown]

there's no obligation but can you see how it would disappoint spurs fans in denver? or does wanting to see duncan and parker play not make someone a spurs fan? this isn't "every night," this is the only night (or two) spurs fans in denver get to watch the spurs play. you have the chance to watch the spurs play every home game, others don't. don't tell me you won't be disappointed or somewhat mad if the only spurs game you saw live didn't include duncan, ginobili, AND parker.

So Pop has an obligation to play all of those guys in road games if they're able to play? Does he have to play them a certain number of minutes, too, to ensure that Spurs fans in these other cities get to see their heroes? Again, wouldn't Pop have disappointed fans in Denver if he had trotted Parker and Duncan out to play the first minute of the game and then benched them for the remainder?

Look, I get that fans might be disappointed, but again, if you buy tickets to see specific players, you assume the risk that you might not see those players for some reason. Last night, that truth was in effect. It sucks, but that's the risk you take.

If I, as a Spurs fan, lived in Denver and had tickets to that game last night, I would have been going to see the Spurs, no matter who played for them. And I certainly wouldn't have gone with the feeling that I was entitled to see Duncan and Parker.


again, i understand ginobili sitting out but duncan and parker weren't suspended or injured, just tired. you can't compare this to a suspension or injury. people are complaining because they were pro athletes capable of playing. injury can happen anytime. to prevent injury to any spurs member, why not just call up the entire austin toros and hold an open audition against the nuggets so that the role players don't get hurt?

I don't think it was about preventing injury. Pop's decision was, to me, a rather simple one. He has the three most important pieces of his team all having played monster minutes at high effort to get a win in Golden State. That team is travelling to Denver -- never an easy place to play under the best of circumstances -- to take on one of the better teams in the conference, in a game that his tired team isn't likely to win.

One of the Big 3 isn't going to play, no matter what, because he's injured, making the chances of victory still more remote. Now, he can push the other two to go out on the court and play more big minutes in what is likely to be a futile effort to win that particular game, or he can sit them down and rest them (also ensuring no fatigue-related injuries) and see what happens. He (prudently, I think) chose the latter path.

Does it piss off fans in Denver? Sure. Is it the right move for his basketball team? Absolutely. Is it just about avoiding injury? Hell no. It's about the realization that this is a long season for players who already have logged big minutes for many years. People mention that Parker's "only 26," but he's played 8 1/2 regular seasons and almost another 1 1/2 seasons worth of playoff games (117). Could he have played? Sure. But it didn't make a lot of sense from a basketball standpoint to send him or Duncan out there. I don't think the fact that it's a road game or that some fans might wind up disappointed should change how Pop approaches that game.

[Galileo]

I heard that, after the game, Pop uttered these reasons for the DNP status of his Big Three:

Manu: "Injured hip and needed rest"
TP: "Just got nominated to the All-Star team and got the big head, so I'm sitting him out for one game to teach him a lesson"
TD: "Has been squawking about wanting to renegotiate his contract. Sitting him down for one game"

Priceless!

CIA Pop reads Spurstalk!

[SenorSpur]

I usually travel to catch 1 or 2 Spurs road games a year. I considered this Denver came up to the last minute. Had I gone, I would've been disappointed to a degree. However, it was great to watch the B-team. I relished the fact that the team played hard and was in it up through the end.

In fact, I enjoyed that game last night much more than the effort given by the starters in LA a couple of weeks ago.

[024]

i just did not like how popovich approached the game expecting a loss before the game even started. when teams like the thunder play cavs, boston, spurs, or lakers, they don't sit out durant and green to preserve them for games they can win. it should be one game at a time. but popovich was thinking ahead i guess.

[quentin_compson]

Suppose that instead of telling the media that he was just resting his guys, that Popovich announced that Parker and Duncan wouldn't play because each had broken some team rule and would serve a one-game suspension while in uniform. Would he be justified then?

Or suppose that Pop had started Duncan and Parker, but played each of them only for the first 30 seconds of the game before removing them and never putting them back? Would there still be bitching about his decision?

I don't get this whole notion that Pop and the Spurs owe some obligation to the fans to send the stars out there every night. Fans who buy tickets for games in the expectation of seeing a particular player set themselves up for a very real chance at disappointment because of injuries, a need for rest, suspensions, foul troubles, or any number of other things. Thus, any fan who thinks that Pop owes an obligation to him to play his stars just because of the chance that someone in the arena bought tickets to see those stars is delusional. Yes, more often than not, it's not an issue; but there are plenty of times that those who want to see stars are disappointed and a coach cannot subjugate the needs of his team (or his obligations to his employers) to the unreasonable expectations of fans.

You really think there is one guy who would have believed that Timmy and Tony had broken a team-rule? :p:

Apart from that, great post. :tu

[rr2418]

I've never gone to an Spurs game with the intention of seeing a particular player. Sure I have favorites, but I go see the whole team. I think Pop did right in thinking about the whole team. If the Spurs win the championship, wanna bet other teams will follow suit?

[my2sons]

oh so know people want to watch the spurs play

either that or watch paint dry....hmm

[meestahmeestah]

what if you were a spurs fan living in denver? and you just spent $50 for a ticket to see them this one time during the season? suns rested shaq but they never rested shaq, stoudemire, and nash all at the same time.


I am a Spurs fan living in Denver. I wish I had only paid $100 to see them. Depending on the year (and playoff matchups) the Spurs only come to town once or twice a year. So yeah, I'm a bit miffed.



First off the spurs played in Denver twice. Second if your a SPURS fan u go to see the team.

I paid to see the SPURS, a team I've been rooting for all my life. I didn't pay to see the Austin Toros. If I wanted to see D-League caliber basketball, I'd go see 14ers games at whatever juco gym they play at here in Colorado.

Sure, it was a close, exciting game. Do you really think Karl would have coached the same way? Do you think Renaldo fucking Balkman would have started if Karl knew the Spurs were going to shut it down for the night? He hasn't seen significant minutes in weeks. Think maybe Chauncey Billups would have tested out his ankle in the 2nd half if the game was ever in doubt? Think K-Mart might have played through strep throat had the Big 3 played? We'll never know, because last night's game was an absolute farce. It was an exhibition game in February. Yeah, I know the Spurs are old and dinged up, but there's not another game till Sunday! Couldn't you at least try and pretend to field a competitive team? Fine, rest Duncan, Parker and Finley for a half, and don't even dress Manu if he's dinged. It's the 2nd night of a back-to-back. I get that. To give up a game before the ball goes up to a Western Conference foe who's close to you in the standings? That's ridiculous.

I respect Pop, I (like a lot of you probably) thought he did Bob Hill dirty when D-Rob went down but eventually came around and grew to love the way Pop coaches and the way the Spurs have run the organization ever since the Larry Brown mess and the Tark/John Lucas jokes. Despite the misses in the draft the last couple of years, I still think the Spurs' FO is the best in the league. But last night? That was an absolute farce.

[FromWayDowntown]

I didn't pay to see the Austin Toros. If I wanted to see D-League caliber basketball, I'd go see 14ers games at whatever juco gym they play at here in Colorado.

So you believe that players 5-13 on the Spurs roster have little or no business playing in the NBA?

[DarrinS]

To be honest, who among you wasn't disappointed when you found out Tony, Tim, and Manu weren't going to play?

[mingus]

it's more than just the fatigue or health issue. each team has to sustain itself econimically. manu being healthy and being manu is pretty important to his team's success from a money POV and winning POV (they pretty much go hand in hand for the spurs. spurs have to win to stay afloat economically. other teams in bigger cities can afford to lose and still make a helluva lot of money ie LA, or Knicks because of thier larger fanbases).

It's owner first, fans second for any owner.

[mingus]

I am a Spurs fan living in Denver. I wish I had only paid $100 to see them. Depending on the year (and playoff matchups) the Spurs only come to town once or twice a year. So yeah, I'm a bit miffed.




I paid to see the SPURS, a team I've been rooting for all my life. I didn't pay to see the Austin Toros. If I wanted to see D-League caliber basketball, I'd go see 14ers games at whatever juco gym they play at here in Colorado.

Sure, it was a close, exciting game. Do you really think Karl would have coached the same way? Do you think Renaldo fucking Balkman would have started if Karl knew the Spurs were going to shut it down for the night? He hasn't seen significant minutes in weeks. Think maybe Chauncey Billups would have tested out his ankle in the 2nd half if the game was ever in doubt? Think K-Mart might have played through strep throat had the Big 3 played? We'll never know, because last night's game was an absolute farce. It was an exhibition game in February. Yeah, I know the Spurs are old and dinged up, but there's not another game till Sunday! Couldn't you at least try and pretend to field a competitive team? Fine, rest Duncan, Parker and Finley for a half, and don't even dress Manu if he's dinged. It's the 2nd night of a back-to-back. I get that. To give up a game before the ball goes up to a Western Conference foe who's close to you in the standings? That's ridiculous.

I respect Pop, I (like a lot of you probably) thought he did Bob Hill dirty when D-Rob went down but eventually came around and grew to love the way Pop coaches and the way the Spurs have run the organization ever since the Larry Brown mess and the Tark/John Lucas jokes. Despite the misses in the draft the last couple of years, I still think the Spurs' FO is the best in the league. But last night? That was an absolute farce.

I can definitely feel your pain, man. That sucks.

[Manufan909]

I heard that, after the game, Pop uttered these reasons for the DNP status of his Big Three:

Manu: "Injured hip and needed rest"
TP: "Just got nominated to the All-Star team and got the big head, so I'm sitting him out for one game to teach him a lesson"
TD: "Has been squawking about wanting to renegotiate his contract. Sitting him down for one game"

Priceless!

Indeed. And +1 to everyone who pointed about the hypocrisy of people being pissed about not seeing the Big 3, when the Spurs are boring anyways.

And from a coach perspective, it was brilliant. Getting JV and Ime minutes just so they don't off themselves and to shake off rust, plus to see what Hill, and Mason could do in the spotlight as the Big 2 would be nice. Seeing Fab be aggressive for a change and filling the stats was nice. But the biggest pro for me was seeing Hairston in some real minutes in his 3rd NBA game, and he was fabulous. I will remember the butt blocking out on Melo for days, that shit was great. And him showing no fear, heart, hustle, and athleticism was awesome, maybe he could get Fin down to 20-25 mins, if he can prove this game was not a fluke over the RRT.

[duncan228]

This part of it, the fan view, is the hard one for me.

I have no problem with Pop's decision, I believe he always does things to give the Spurs the best chance at winning it all. I trust his judgement.

I agree with FromWayDowntown that no guarantees come with a ticket. It's a chance you take.

That being said, having never seen Duncan play in person, I would have been crushed if I finally could get to a game and he didn't play (for any reason). I'd still support what Pop did last night but it would have been disappointing for me. If Duncan were injured or otherwise unable to play it would seem easier to take. But to watch him healthy on the bench would have been hard for me.

Again, I support what Pop did for whatever reasons he had. I tend not to question the leader that's brought 4 Championships to us. But just as a fan it would have been hard for me to be at that game.

[SpursPreacher]

Well look at the rash of injuries that have hit the league lately,bynum,nelson,redd,bogut.maybe pop saw the basketball gods are angered and decided to not take a chance.

[meestahmeestah]

This part of it, the fan view, is the hard one for me.

I have no problem with Pop's decision, I believe he always does things to give the Spurs the best chance at winning it all. I trust his judgement.

I agree with FromWayDowntown that no guarantees come with a ticket. It's a chance you take.

That being said, having never seen Duncan play in person, I would have been crushed if I finally could get to a game and he didn't play (for any reason). I'd still support what Pop did last night but it would have been disappointing for me. If Duncan were injured or otherwise unable to play it would seem easier to take. But to watch him healthy on the bench would have been hard for me.

Again, I support what Pop did for whatever reasons he had. I tend not to question the leader that's brought 4 Championships to us. But just as a fan it would have been hard for me to be at that game.

:toast

Very well said. I hate to be a whiny fan, especially when (and this sounds cheesy but whatever) the Spurs have given me so much to root for over the years, even before they started winning championships. I was wishy-washy about going to the game anyway because hey, times are tough and I could have used that $100 on something else. Hearing on the radio as I'm pulling into the parking lot that Parker, Duncan and Ginobili weren't playing just hit me the wrong way.

In the grand scheme of an NBA season, I really hope losing this tiebreaker to the Nuggets doesn't mean anything and it doesn't come back to haunt us in the post-season, and if Pop had donked up the lineup against the Thunder or the Bulls someone like that, I would probably look at it differently since I wasn't there to see it. I'd be just as CIA Pop-loving as most Spurs fans and think it was the ultimate punking of the Nuggets. Don't get me wrong, I relished that the Nuggets tried to give the game away, and I laughed my ass off when the Spurs cut the lead to 4 and then 2 and watched Nene and Melo come back into the game and seal the win. And I was very impressed with the effort the Spurs gave. It just hit me the wrong way because I paid good money to see my favorite team in all of sports all but forfeit a game. During timeouts as the Nuggets tried to stop the Spurs runs in the 4th quarter, you could see Tim and Tony bouncing up and down, stretching, just dying to get into the game. Giving them the night off gave the Nuggets a chance to give Nene, Melo and Billups most of the night off, too.

[EJK5032]

idiots

it's not like we got blown out........we almost won the game!

the NBA should fine the Nuggets for sucking.

[barbacoataco]

Regular season tickets in the NBA are not a guarantee that you'll see a good game. That is one reason I only go 3-4 times a year. Often one team gives up midway through the 3rd quarter, or the game is just half-hearted. Last night's game was as competitive as most NBA games, and it was a chance to see some young players. I don't see what the big deal is. If you want a guarantee buy playoff tickets.

[jack sommerset]

GAWD. Pop the overrated smuck that he is sat 4 of his starters. He did it because he is getting old and crazy. Its another sign. Its not smart. You donot give away games in the middle of a season.

Some of you are debating about the people who spend money to see the Spews in Denver. Personally I would not spend money to see that game but the people who did deserve to see the Spews best players,namely Duncan and its always fun to watch the Mangoo run. Fucking animal belongs in a zoo.

[spursfan09]

GAWD. Pop the overrated smuck that he is sat 4 of his starters. He did it because he is getting old and crazy. Its another sign. Its not smart. You donot give away games in the middle of a season.

Some of you are debating about the people who spend money to see the Spews in Denver. Personally I would not spend money to see that game but the people who did deserve to see the Spews best players,namely Duncan and its always fun to watch the Mangoo run. Fucking animal belongs in a zoo.

oh but you'll spend night after night in the team's forum won't you? :lol

[Agloco]

First off the spurs played in Denver twice. Second if your a SPURS fan u go to see the team.

WTF does that matter? So you're supposed to guess which game Pop decides to rest his starters in?

As for seeing the team: Last I heard, Parker, Duncan and Ginobili were part of the TEAM.

[oncehadaclue]

I was originally pissed when I saw Pop was playing the bench against the Nuggets, but after thinking about it I believe Pop was sending a message to the new guys who had not been on the Rodeo Road Trip before. We have a system in place. You play hard, you play defense and share the ball, and you'll have a chance to win at the end, no matter who is on the court. It was to give them some playing time and confidence. I think they'll believe in the system now, if they didn't before. But yeah, it still sucks to lose.

[jack sommerset]

oh but you'll spend night after night in the team's forum won't you? :lol

Great connection.:bang

I also spend time,alot more time in other parts of this website (great website) and other websites.

But back to the topic. It was stupid of this nut job sitting 4 of his best players. He is losing it.

[MANUUU]

just respect pop's decision. end of story.

[xellos88330]

Everyone is all pissed off about the Spurs not playing the best players. What about the players that very rarely see any minutes at all. They are still part of the team but get no recognition. I for one enjoyed the game because I got to see the Spurs that I do not get to see very often. I would have paid money to see it. We all know what Parker, Ginobili, Finley and Duncan can do, but the other guys, not so much. Also, you get to watch the people the Spurs best players practice against. They are part of the reason why those 4 players can be as good as they are. Show respect to all the players.

[SequSpur]

i see both sides of the argument because I have an open mind. If you don't then jump off a cliff.

[Brazil]

For christ sake BLAME THE FUCKING LEAGUE TO OBLIGE NBA TEAMS TO PLAY BTB GAMES !!!!!!!!!! If you want to see a good bb game DO NOT BUY A TICKET TO SEE A TEAM PLAYING TWICE IN 20 HOURS. It drives me nuts, BLAME STERN AND NOT POP.

[anakha]

i see both sides of the argument because I have an open mind. If you don't then jump off a cliff.

:lmao

That was pretty good.

[rayray2k8]

I didnt even know that they got benched. :lol
Who cares?
As long as the guys are healthy theres no reason to complain

[wildbill2u]

Suppose you shelled out a bunch of money for tickets to a Lakers game in SA and Phil sat Kobe and their next best two players. Or it was Chicago when Jordan was playing and Phil sat Jordan and Pippen. You'd feel cheated, not necessarily just because you want to beat the best, but you want to see the legends of the game.

In most leagues you put them in to start and get them out after a few minutes.

[raspsa]

I remember when Hakeem was playing, Houston would put him on the injured list during the month he had to perform his duties as a devout Muslim to fast and he was declared to be not fit to play.. a happy coincidence for the Rockets because they got a fresh Hakeem come playoff time..

[spursfan09]

Great connection.:bang

I also spend time,alot more time in other parts of this website (great website) and other websites.

But back to the topic. It was stupid of this nut job sitting 4 of his best players. He is losing it.

I am just assuming you fall under the "I think spurs are boring" category. and its ironic that you post in one of thier forums. You are right- wierd connection, but I also find it funny that people all of a sudden care about the Spurs and care that Td, TP and Manu did not play.

[m33p0]

spurs fans in denver are the only ones who have a real cause to complain. but being spurs fans, they will understand the reason why.

[Yorae]

“Watching the Spurs might be the equivalent of watching paint dry, but that’s still not right. There are probably lots of kids in Denver who for whatever reason love Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and their parents swallowed the $500 or so it costs to take a family to an NBA game and when they get there, Popovich decides he’s sitting all of his stars?”

Fuck this asshole. I could give him a manila ice right on the jaw for that.

[GSH]

I thought the game was exciting. I got to watch Nene and Linas Kleiza push through crowds like passengers on a Japanese commuter train. And I got to watch the Nuggets shoot 37 free throws - that was fun.

And when George Karl gets really mad and screams, and his scalp turns all red? He looks just like the guy who got electro-shock therapy on "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest". I loved that movie. Good times.

For Nuggets fans, every night is like a circus sideshow. It doesn't matter which players are suited up for the other team. Tonight they just managed to squeak a 1-point win out over Oklahoma City. Those crazy Nuggets can make any game exciting.

[TDMVPDPOY]

u be pissed if you bought a ticket to the game

u be pissed if you betted on the game

[InK]

Dime’s Pat Cassidy later added: Watching the Spurs might be the equivalent of watching paint dry[/URL], but that’s still not right. There are probably lots of kids in Denver who for whatever reason love Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...


:lmao:lmao

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

For christ sake BLAME THE FUCKING LEAGUE TO OBLIGE NBA TEAMS TO PLAY BTB GAMES !!!!!!!!!! If you want to see a good bb game DO NOT BUY A TICKET TO SEE A TEAM PLAYING TWICE IN 20 HOURS. It drives me nuts, BLAME STERN AND NOT POP.

Exactly. Would it have been better for fans watching the big 3 struggle and still lose? Which was the most likely outcome anyway.

Next thing they'll start bitching that every time a player has a chance to dunk he has to dunk because otherwise he wouldn't be giving the people who paid the entertainment they wanted... or getting fined because of resting the starters in the 4th quarter of a blowout, because they've paid to see X number of on-court minutes by the stars? This is utterly ridiculous. Other teams do it, have done it and will do it. It's very hypocritical from a fan to whine because all teams rest players at the end of the season. What about the people who buy tickets for these games huh? All teams do it because this is the right thing to do.

I'd much rather watch Hill, Mason and Hairston fight till the end with the team just below us in the standings than watching the horror show that the Magic game was.

[Obstructed_View]

u be pissed if you bought a ticket to the game

u be pissed if you betted on the game

Betting on games is illegal for people outside Nevada, so who gives a shit if they're pissed? :lol

[InK]

spurs fans in denver are the only ones who have a real cause to complain. but being spurs fans, they will understand the reason why.

Exactly. And if id be a Nuggets fan id gladly take a win over the Spurs without Martin and Billups in the lineup, and with Carmelo just coming off a month long injury. And so would a majority of Nuggets fans most likely. Spurs fans are really the only ones who can bitch about this move. I didn't like it myself, mostly becasue of my egoistical reasons, but no point beeing upset here for more then an hour or two. We all know it was done with the best interest of the team in mind. If Pop thought that the guys needed some rest then so be it.

[spurster]

I don't get this whole notion that Pop and the Spurs owe some obligation to the fans to send the stars out there every night.

Obligation = The fans pay Pop and the Spurs.

Send the stars out there every night? They only play two games this whole week!

This is your worst argument yet FWD.

[m33p0]

Obligation = The fans pay Pop and the Spurs.

Send the stars out there every night? They only play two games this whole week!

This is your worst argument yet FWD.

from another thread

It's a good thing the league didn't take any action on this. IBesides, if the NBA really wants to focus on what's hurting their product, they should crackdown on all this deliberate free agent talk in 2010. All the speculation about LeBron going to NY, Wade dreaming of joining him and Bosh bolting Toronto. This blantant type of speculation is media-driven, but the players do nothing to deflect it. All of which, undermines the current teams that these stars play for. Coaches aren't allowed to engage in such talk because of tampering rules, but it's OK for players.

Meanwhile, you've got teams literally dumping salary and players in anticipation of this event, while virtually sacrificing the next 1 1/2 seasons. What about their obligations to the fans of said teams?

Is all this as serious as a coach sitting his best players for one freaking game?

[EricB]

Obligation = The fans pay Pop and the Spurs.

Send the stars out there every night? They only play two games this whole week!

This is your worst argument yet FWD.

To win championships.

It's pop's job to guide his team that way.

If he feels the best way is to give his guys a night off here and there, thats how it is.

Get over it.

[FromWayDowntown]

Obligation = The fans pay Pop and the Spurs.

Send the stars out there every night? They only play two games this whole week!

This is your worst argument yet FWD.

So, again, if Pop has this obligation to the fans that you claim, how many minutes must Pop play his stars every night? If he plays them 30 seconds each -- and only 30 seconds -- then sits them for the rest of the night, has he satisfied his purported obligation to the fans?

Again, if you buy a ticket on the expectation that you will see a particular player, you assume the risk that you'll be disappointed for a wide array of reasons. It's insane, IMO, to think that Pop should ever put the desire of the fans ahead of the well-being of his basketball team.

[smeagol]

So, again, if Pop has this obligation to the fans that you claim, how many minutes must Pop play his stars every night? If he plays them 30 seconds each -- and only 30 seconds -- then sits them for the rest of the night, has he satisfied his purported obligation to the fans?

Again, if you buy a ticket on the expectation that you will see a particular player, you assume the risk that you'll be disappointed for a wide array of reasons. It's insane, IMO, to think that Pop should ever put the desire of the fans ahead of the well-being of his basketball team.

That is not a bad response despite this being your "worst argument yet" :lol

I wholeheartedly agree.

[to21]

U guys are right, Pop has no obligation to any one but the team and the Spurs brass.

However, I still feel for my Argie friend, who took a job in Colorado Springs, and took his family in their Argentinian color Manu jerseys to watch the game. He and his wife understand why. It's the six and nine year old that don't.

[FromWayDowntown]

U guys are right, Pop has no obligation to any one but the team and the Spurs brass.

However, I still feel for my Argie friend, who took a job in Colorado Springs, and took his family in their Argentinian color Manu jerseys to watch the game. He and his wife understand why. It's the six and nine year old that don't.

Of all of the decisions that Pop made, the decision to sit Manu is undeniably defensible. The kids should be able to understand that he got hurt and that, since he's hurt, he can't play. And, moreso than a lot of other players, buying tickets for a particular game on the specific hope of seeing Manu Ginobili play is a dicey proposition.

[FromWayDowntown]

That is not a bad response despite this being your "worst argument yet" :lol

"Worst argument yet" makes it sound like I've made lots of really bad arguments.

I probably have.

[to21]

Of all of the decisions that Pop made, the decision to sit Manu is undeniably defensible. The kids should be able to understand that he got hurt and that, since he's hurt, he can't play. And, moreso than a lot of other players, buying tickets for a particular game on the specific hope of seeing Manu Ginobili play is a dicey proposition.While this was explained to the kiddos, it still doesn't lessen he sting of spending $500 bills. As I said the parents understand, a six year who considers the man his idol might have a tougher time.

Anyhow, I'm doing damage control, they are coming down during the end of the season for some family business and I'm taking them see a game with great seats. If things work out with some up coming plans here at work, they might even get to meet him.

[smeagol]

U guys are right, Pop has no obligation to any one but the team and the Spurs brass.

However, I still feel for my Argie friend, who took a job in Colorado Springs, and took his family in their Argentinian color Manu jerseys to watch the game. He and his wife understand why. It's the six and nine year old that don't.

Manu was injured. This is the one case pop is blameless.

[BlackSwordsMan]

Yes they did

[BlackSwordsMan]

sucks for the fans who paid money to see the spurs and they see vaughn and hairston play

[smeagol]

"Worst argument yet" makes it sound like I've made lots of really bad arguments.

I probably have.

Indeed you have.

You suck at arguing! :smokin

[Rapper]

Do you think the Spurs did the fans a disservice by sitting Duncan, Parker and Ginobili last night?

Yes I do

[spurster]

don't get this whole notion that Pop and the Spurs owe some obligation to the fans to send the stars out there every night.



So, again, if Pop has this obligation to the fans that you claim, how many minutes must Pop play his stars every night? If he plays them 30 seconds each -- and only 30 seconds -- then sits them for the rest of the night, has he satisfied his purported obligation to the fans?

Again, if you buy a ticket on the expectation that you will see a particular player, you assume the risk that you'll be disappointed for a wide array of reasons. It's insane, IMO, to think that Pop should ever put the desire of the fans ahead of the well-being of his basketball team.

The NBA, Pop, and the Spurs have the obligation to show their best product, which fans ultimately pay millions for. An entertainment industry cannot afford to do less. One might argue that, in the long run, Pop made the best choice or a reasonable choice, but to argue that he has no obligation to the fans is ludicrous. I am surprised to see so many people fail to understand this.

Fortunately for rest of this week, Pop does not have to agonize about "send[ing] the stars out there every night", your second ridiculous point.

Now for your "30 second" and "expectation" arguments, you are making a false assumption that the obligation is on a game-by-game basis rather than season-long or over multiple seasons. In long grind of the baseball season, uninjured star players often sit out games, and the fans attending that game might gripe, but they understand. It is a little surprising that NBA players don't take a night off here and there, especially when it's 4 games in 5 nights, or one of those Texas triangle trips.

Now for this particular case, having nights off doesn't seem to be a major problem with several days between Denver and Boston, and the scheduling before Denver hardly cruel and unusual at all by NBA standards (every other day from Jan. 23 to Feb. 2 and Denver on Feb. 3). As for injuries, Manu was pretty banged up but TD and TP were what? Too tired? So tired they can only play 30 seconds? Sorry, I am not buying that one. I think the lack of reasonable excuses is what has many fans upset. Of course, we can differ on what is reasonable.

[meestahmeestah]

U guys are right, Pop has no obligation to any one but the team and the Spurs brass.

However, I still feel for my Argie friend, who took a job in Colorado Springs, and took his family in their Argentinian color Manu jerseys to watch the game. He and his wife understand why. It's the six and nine year old that don't.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. I think most of the people in this thread feel that Spurs fans in Denver (like me) have a reason to be pissed. I really feel bad for the Argies who bring their flags in and usually go apeshit nuts the entire game. They were very subdued Tuesday night for good reason. I've also seen Manu and Fab come out before warmups and sign autographs for dozens of fans, and you can tell how much they appreciate it. It's one thing to maybe run into TD at Dave & Busters or something, but when your Argentinian national team heroes only roll through town once or twice a year and you don't get to see them when the Spurs are in town? It's like to21 said. I understand why. I'm sure the 6 year old doesn't.

You may not think there's many Spurs fans in Denver...but every game I've seen since I moved to Colorado, there's been a fairly large crowd supporting the Silver and Black, and they're always loud and rowdy and proud. I've heard a "Go Spurs Go" chant start in the freaking lobby of the Pepsi Center for pete's sake. And the boos Manu generates (Nuggets fans hate him) during the player introductions...it's just so classic. A friend of mine has seats behind the basket and I always make sure I've got enough money to buy his when the Spurs are in town. While there's easily a couple thousand Spurs fans scattered throughout, it's something to experience when you're on the floor level and hearing thousands and thousands boo your favorite team. It's a little bit of a rush. Denver LOVES to hate on the Spurs...it's so fun to hear all the Buttnugget lovers whine and moan as the Spurs beat them down. It just sucks that I got to see a scrimmage instead of another smackdown.

[ambchang]

From a coaching standpoint, Pop did nothing that he shouldn't have done. His ultimate job is to give the Spurs the best chance to win the NBA title, and that is to play to their maximum potential over the course of the season. He believed sitting his stars out during the Nuggets game would allow him to achieve that.

The fans on the other hand, paid money to see the stars, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, just that the two parties have conflicting motivations.

If anything, Pop should be praised for his professionalism in not yielding to pressure to showcase his stars that he believe would be detrimental to his team in the long run. A coach does not have the obligation to entertain the fans. If that is the case, every single coach should have a run-and-gun offense to satisfy the majority of fans who enjoy that style and not concentrate on half-court execution, defense and rebounding.