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Winehole23
02-05-2009, 11:07 PM
How Congress Is Creating the 51st State* (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/02/representation_without_stateho.html)

By George Will (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/author/george_will/)

WASHINGTON -- One answer is: Six rows of stars -- the top, third and fifth rows with nine, the second, fourth and sixth rows with eight. The question is: How might the nation reconfigure its flag to acknowledge a 51st state. Or "state."



The question is pertinent, or would be were Congress inclined to adhere to the Constitution. Both the House and Senate are moving toward pretending, as part of a disgraceful bargain with Utah, that the District of Columbia is a state.



The D.C. House Voting Rights Act will give the District a full voting member in the House of Representatives. The problem is, or should be, that although the Constitution has provisions that allow various interpretations, the following is not one of those provisions: The House shall be composed of members chosen "by the people of the several states."



But the District is not a state. It is (as the Constitution says in Article I, Section 8) "the seat of the government of the United States." That is why, in 1978, the District's advocates sent to the states a constitutional amendment requiring that "for purposes of representation" the district would be "treated as though it were a state." Only 16 states ratified it, 22 short of the required number. So the District's advocates decided that an amendment is unnecessary -- a statute will suffice because the Constitution empowers Congress "to exercise exclusive legislation" over the District. They argue that this power can be used to, in effect, amend the Constitution by nullifying Article I, Section 2's requirement that House members come from "the several states." This argument, that Congress' legislative power trumps the Constitution, means that Congress could establish religion, abridge freedom of speech and of the press and abolish the right of peaceful assembly in the District.


And, of course, Congress next could give the District two senators. Which probably is the main objective of the Democrats who are most of the supporters of this end run around the Constitution. In the 12 elections since the District acquired, by constitutional amendment, the right to allocate presidential electoral votes, it has never cast less than 74.8 percent of its popular vote for the Democratic presidential candidate. That amendment, the 23rd, stipulates that the District shall allocate the number of electoral votes to which it would be entitled "if it were a state." If.


Senate passage of the D.C. House Voting Rights Act is assured, partly because under the Act's terms, Utah, which has two Republican senators, will be awarded a fourth House seat. The state came close to qualifying for a fourth after the 2000 census and, because it is growing like Jack's beanstalk, would have been awarded a fourth after the 2010 census. But why wait for 2012? The Constitution, that cobweb, is all that stands between Utah and instant gratification. So for the first time in 96 years, the size of the House will be permanently increased, by two members, to 437. Last year, as a senator, Barack Obama supported the act, so when it flutters onto his desk, he will sign it, although a veto would seem to be required by the recent oath he swore to defend the Constitution from threats, presumably including Congress.



Still, a freshly minted adjective describes this unseemly handing out, like party favors, of seats in the national legislature: Blagojevichian. He had an unsavory plan for filling one Senate seat for a while. Congress has an anti-constitutional plan for creating two Senate seats and one in the House forever.



When the first modification of the nation's flag was occasioned by the admission to the union of Vermont and Kentucky in 1791 and 1792, respectively, Congress stipulated that the flag have 15 stars -- and 15 stripes. But by the time the second modification was ordered, in 1818, there were 20 states. It was clear -- because of Manifest Destiny, "Westward the course of empire takes its way," etc. -- that the flag was going to resemble the necktie displays nowadays at Brooks Brothers (founded in 1818) -- too many stripes. So the flag went back to 13 stripes, and only stars have proliferated.



When the 51st star is added for the District, Congress should make at least a limited nod to the Constitution by stipulating that the star be bracketed by quotation marks, or have over it a small asterisk. This would be a way of saying: "As if it were a state."


[email protected] (%[email protected])


Copyright 2009, Washington Post Writers Group


Related Topics:


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/topicons/george_will.jpg


George Will

balli
02-05-2009, 11:28 PM
But why wait for 2012? The Constitution, that cobweb, is all that stands between Utah and instant gratification.
:lol
Meh, I might agree in theory, but rural Utah's batshit insane and as long as we're getting a seat I might as well put theory aside, embrace the political and support making DC a voting member so as to counteract the right wing craziness that will be embodied in Utah's soon to be 4th district representative.

Aggie Hoopsfan
02-05-2009, 11:35 PM
balli, so you're for the Dems giving the finger to the Constitution for this? If so, I never want to see you pretend to have any kind of objectivity on this forum or call out anyone for being a conservative.

What they're trying to do is unconstitutional. It's fucking bullshit, but that's Pelosi, Harry, and the Messiah for you...

balli
02-05-2009, 11:38 PM
What they're trying to do is unconstitutional. It's fucking bullshit, but that's Pelosi, Harry, and the Messiah for you...
What? Like it's constitutional for Utah to take an extra seat, early, before the census?

As long as we're breaking the rules to give the reddest state in the nation an extra seat I don't see why we can't break them to seat a congress member who will benefit the democrats. You don't like it, bitch about Utah and the republicans who orchestrated this whole deal to begin with. Or do you only get outraged when bending the constitution benefits the democrats?

balli
02-05-2009, 11:44 PM
Utah Republicans: We want an extra seat in congress.

Congress: No, the constitution says you have to wait until the census says you have an increase in population.

Utah Republicans: C'mon.

Congress: Okay, but there ain't no such thing as free lunch and we're also giving DC a seat.

Utah Republicans: Okay, it's a bi-partisan compromise. We both agree- fuck the constitution, let's do this shit.

Aggie: Fucking democrats. That's Pelosi, Harry and the messiah for you.



And you call me a partisan? Pffffffffffffff. :rolleyes

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 12:37 AM
One voting rep I can see, even if it's wrong. (It is wrong.)

Senator? No way.

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 12:38 AM
There's an amendment process for this.

If we do this, why even have a Constitution?

balli
02-06-2009, 12:47 AM
(It is wrong.)
All things equal and like I said, in theory, I agree. But I'll be damned if not as a dem, but a leftist, I'm giving red ass Utah an extra seat for free, out of the blue, for no reason at all. Despite the precedent the compromise sets.


Senator? No way.
To be fair is it truly the end goal of Democratic leadership to use this as a precedent for considering DC a state? Or is that just Will's conjecture? And even if true, wouldn't it be more wishful thinking than a concrete plan? And either way, wouldn't it be fair to also criticize Utah's republicans for formulating a demand (that is no more constitutional) and compromise that would include such a precedent in the first place?

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 12:55 AM
To be fair is it truly the end goal of Democratic leadership to use this as a precedent for considering DC a state? Or is that just Will's conjecture? And even if true, wouldn't it be more wishful thinking than a concrete plan? It's Will's conjecture, and if true would only be wishful thinking. Yeah. It's just a headline. DC is still at the mercy of Congress.


And either way, wouldn't it be fair to also criticize Utah's republicans for formulating a demand (that is no more constitutional) and compromise that would include such a precedent in the first place?I don't know the blow-by-blow, but that sounds fair to me. There could be unanticipated problems.

Is it possible to write legislation in such a way that it sets no precedent for anything else?

I would also think, DC being what it is, that it could set no precedent for anything else. The suspense surrounding DC v. Heller (http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=DC_v._Heller) is obviously related. DC is its own thing. It's hard to generalize from the case.

DarkReign
02-06-2009, 12:57 AM
What fucking bullshit.

I know, scathing analysis and strawberry-flavored contributions...

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 01:01 AM
What fucking bullshit.

I know, scathing analysis and strawberry-flavored contributions...There's not much more to say about it, scathing, strawberry-flavored or otherwise.

mFFL03
02-06-2009, 01:08 AM
What about puerto rico, costa rica, and iraq?

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 01:15 AM
Puerto Rico: US Territory. (Maybe, someday.)

Costa Rica: independent and sovereign (Never)

Iraq: emerging democracy, de facto protectorate (We ain't making them no 51st state, even if they cost as much.)

FreeMason
02-06-2009, 01:21 AM
I will accept the seat.

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 01:28 AM
I will accept the seat.Leave your beloved Texas for swampy DC?

Say it ain't so.

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 02:16 AM
DC is bigger than say, Wyoming, and North Dakota is within striking distance. Could DC be a state?

balli
02-06-2009, 02:24 AM
I'd be pissed if I was a permanent resident of DC and didn't have congressional representation. Then again, I'm clueless about how populated DC proper is. You have to figure a lot of the people who live there are transplants who claim residency elsewhere. Even as a democrat I would theorize that it doesn't deserve statehood, but these waters are murky and the more I think about it, the more I like them having some limited form of representation; like say IDK, a single house district.

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 02:48 AM
how populated DC proper is.581,530 (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/11000.html). Note the detail in the address:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/11000.html

boutons_
02-06-2009, 06:29 AM
voting is a sham, children, carry on with believing The Great American Lies

LnGrrrR
02-06-2009, 08:59 AM
Here's my question... how does DC not have representation? Aren't they represented by their state rep? (DC's in what, Maryland?)

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 09:20 AM
Here's my question... how does DC not have representation? Aren't they represented by their state rep? (DC's in what, Maryland?)DC was ceded by Maryland in 1790. Ah-yup. They have a non-voting rep in the House. The 23rd amendment gave them the right to vote for the President in 1961. Etc.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_voting_rights)

doobs
02-06-2009, 09:28 AM
I lived in DC for several years. I remained a Texas voter. No harm, no foul. The only people who are screwed are the poor black people who have lived their for generations. Anyway Utah will get their new seat no matter what. They need to wait for it.

LnGrrrR
02-06-2009, 10:39 AM
The easiest answer would be to just fold DC back into Maryland, I would think.

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 11:42 AM
The easiest answer would be to just fold DC back into Maryland, I would think.Hmm. There'd be no counterbalancing GOP rep in that case. Not many (http://www.opensecrets.org/states/delegatn.php?cycle=2002&state=MD) R's in Maryland.

EVAY
02-06-2009, 07:41 PM
Folks in D.C. have license plates that quote "No taxation without representation", from the days of the war of Independence. It does seem to me that they should be represented by a voting member in Congress, somewhere. I don't have a clue about the constitutionality of it, but I would assume that if Will's statement is accurate, the Supremes will be asked to weigh in on it post haste.

I like George Will. I don't always agree with him, but when he is right, he is right. I just don't know if this is one of those times or not. It seems to me that we have more pressing issues for Congress to consider and for Will to opine about.

Winehole23
02-06-2009, 08:37 PM
I like George Will. I don't always agree with him, but when he is right, he is right. I just don't know if this is one of those times or not. He's right, but I think you are too. It sucks that DC has no vote in Congress. Unfortunately, there's only one "right" way to fix this: constitutional amendment.

The statutory cure IRKS ME plenty, but I'm glad that DC finally gets a Rep with a vote. It's long overdue.


It seems to me that we have more pressing issues for Congress to consider and for Will to opine about.Oh, I agree.

I like to post boring stuff like this because people will actually try to discuss it with each other. Pick a topic that's too exciting, and people tend to lose their minds instantly. You get nothing but insults and cursing. It gets monotonous.

Thanks for posting, EVAY.

johnsmith
02-06-2009, 11:08 PM
i didn't read more than two lines of this thread but having spent a fair bit of time in Utah as well as cities bordering the state of Utah, I feel I can say the following:

Utah is fucking gay.

Cant_Be_Faded
02-07-2009, 12:02 AM
ROFL holy shit

if ballijuana was not lying then he just layeth the smacketh downeth on AHF like no other. AHF has fallen into the crevasses of the bloaded underground ever since the democrat takeover. He has to be dead last in the 'i'm in touch with america' award votes.

Aggie Hoopsfan
02-07-2009, 11:10 AM
What? Like it's constitutional for Utah to take an extra seat, early, before the census?

As long as we're breaking the rules to give the reddest state in the nation an extra seat I don't see why we can't break them to seat a congress member who will benefit the democrats. You don't like it, bitch about Utah and the republicans who orchestrated this whole deal to begin with. Or do you only get outraged when bending the constitution benefits the democrats?


We shouldn't be breaking the rules for Utah, or D.C.

But two senators > 1 representative.

balli
02-07-2009, 02:09 PM
You're an idiot. DC's not getting two senators. They're getting one rep. Quit embarrassing yourself.


AHF has fallen into the crevasses of the bloaded underground ever since the democrat takeover. He has to be dead last in the 'i'm in touch with america' award votes.