Rasheed Wallace on the Spurs?

[tp2021]

You do realize that you can only have 15 players on the roster? That means the Pistons would have to spend a lot of money buying guys out or cut about 5 guys from the current team.

I think they would have to cut guys first. IIRC they can't ever go over 15 players after a trade, which makes cutting guys after the fact to get to 15 not allowed.

[TheSpursFNRule]

I wouldn't say so. Riding into the playoffs with only 3 bigmen doesn't excite me.

Yeah that of course is true, those 3 can spread the floor though and score a lot of points(Duncan, Rasheed and Bonner) and if it happened the Spurs could sign a D-league big guy possibly. This is all wishful thinking. I find it funny that Reggie Miller said it would make them the best team in the west by far and it is true. I mean its just so hard to see Rasheed going to San Antonio in the next ....what is it 7 days?

[TheSpursFNRule]

The pistons are a fucking mess. That is the only 100% true thing in this thread.

[DPG21920]

They Pistons can get nothing. The only types of teams that Wallace helps are teams like the Spurs who need one more piece for a title. Other teams with young guys that are rotation players would never be traded because it is a lateral move that sucks for the long term.

There is no reason why Detroit trades Wallace with his money coming off the books unless they can get a combo of expiring contracts, draft picks and someone who is a recent draft pick that has not turned into a rotation player yet for a contending team.

[coachmac87]

DET trades Sheed they automaticly becomes a worse team.....

[DrHouse]

Wallace isn't a game changer anymore IMHO. All the dude does is jackup idiotic 3's.

[tp2021]

DET trades Sheed they automaticly becomes a worse team.....

So? They don't feel they can win a :lobt: this year anyway...
Trading him would get them something in return as opposed to letting him walk at the end of the season, because Joe wants to rebuild, which means letting Sheed and AI walk.

[DPG21920]

DET trades Sheed they automaticly becomes a worse team.....

Detroit is going no where this year anyways. They have no chance to win it this year unless they pull off a miracle trade. Other than that, Sheed does nothing for them anymore. But they get a lot of money next year with him and Iverson coming off the books.

Amare is the best they can hope for by far. That is the only case where they can get a super star, young player for Rasheed because the Suns are in need of a quick fix to get better this year and they think that trading Amare for a guy like Sheed probably helps them this year, plus gives them wiggle room for next year. That is the only scenario I see that makes any kind of sense if they are hoping for someone to impact them now.

[DPG21920]

So? They don't feel they can win a :lobt: this year anyway...
Trading him would get them something in return as opposed to letting him walk at the end of the season, because Joe wants to rebuild, which means letting Sheed and AI walk.

You have to ask yourself is what they are getting in return for a trade better than what they can get for 34 million in free agency? I do not think so. Unless they get Amare. That is almost like the perfect storm scenario.

[Red Hawk #21]

Wallace isn't a game changer anymore IMHO. All the dude does is jackup idiotic 3's.

I can guarantee you if Sheed knew he was on a team that had a chance of winning it all he would play like his old self.

[DPG21920]

I can guarantee you if Sheed knew he was on a team that had a chance of winning it all he would play like his old self.

Exactly. Some people confuse bordem or disdain with lack of skill. This is clearly a case of Wallace knowing his time is up in Detroit and needing a change of scenery.

[ElNono]

I can guarantee you if Sheed knew he was on a team that had a chance of winning it all he would play like his old self.

Never mind him.. he's just scared...

[DAF86]

I agree with Miller's statement. And giving that this trade could be the difference for us between a championship and a WC finals. I think the Spurs FO should throw everything they have on trying to make it work:

The Pistons want expiring contracts so Vaughn, Udoka and Finley (we tell the Pistons to let him go and sign him back) are assets, Horry could come in handy too. You know how much can we sign him for to make the salaries match?

-Then give Detroit things like: Splitter's rights, Mahinmi, a 1st round pick and maybe some cash compesation to make it more desirable for them.

I think Dumars will go for this what do you think?

Is it legal to sign Horry for 8 mil?

[DPG21920]

If we have his bird rights then we can sign him to what ever, I am not sure if we do though.

[Ice009]

You have to give the Pistons something like Mahinmi or Splitter's rights, draft picks and/or cash to make it worthwhile for them otherwise it's a waste of time for Detroit.

I think if Splitter wants to come to the NBA then that is a pretty good prospect for Detroit or any team really. Mahinmi could be an interesting pick up for them too.

[Red Hawk #21]

You have to give the Pistons something like Mahinmi or Splitter's rights, draft picks and/or cash to make it worthwhile for them otherwise it's a waste of time for Detroit.

I think if Splitter wants to come to the NBA then that is a pretty good prospect for Detroit or any team really. Mahinmi could be an interesting pick up for them too.

Yea this ought to work

[EricB]

Is it legal to sign Horry for 8 mil?

105% within what he signed for last year IIRC.

Chump or another salary cap expert could correct me.

[galvatron3000]

Trading Ian is something I'm sure the Spurs want to avoid, but trading Splitter's rights is something that they should entertain. Ian is young and can stand to develop under Tim and a Rasheed for the future. Package up Udoka, Bonner and soe other guys the Pistons will waive and the Spurs will pick up again and I'd like that alot.

[ss1986v2]

we would still have full bird rights on horry, no? if so, we could sign him all the way up to the max.

im off to larry coons page to see if there are any other issues im missing.

[Ice009]

Trading Ian is something I'm sure the Spurs want to avoid, but trading Splitter's rights is something that they should entertain. Ian is young and can stand to develop under Tim and a Rasheed for the future. Package up Udoka, Bonner and soe other guys the Pistons will waive and the Spurs will pick up again and I'd like that alot.

It might not be enough to just give Detroit one of them. I'd love to keep either Ian or Splitter's rights, but you might have to include both for Detroit to do it. Would the Spurs be willing to trade two young prospects for Rasheed? And what if Rasheed bolts next season? We're left with nothing.

Splitter IMO is by far the most attractive option for the Pistons if he's willing to come over because that would be like a lottery pick for them. I don't know if the Spurs want to do that though after the Scola trade ;).

[xtremesteven33]

I never thought the Lakers could make a trade for Pau Gasol while using Kwame as thier main bait....

But damn dude if the Spurs could land Rasheed the NBA might as well give us the Championship. Seriously.

[HarlemHeat37]

this new development(well new in the news) with Horry opens the options up a lot more for us, that's for sure..

I still think we get a small name though, which would be good too, if they fit the need..

looking for the big name is probably asking too much..

as for Sheed..playing for a coach he respects, playing with Duncan, playing on an elite team..there's no way he wouldn't be motivated..he's THE ideal player, considering he's a Laker killer..

[tp2021]

I never thought the Lakers could make a trade for Pau Gasol while using Kwame as thier main bait....

But damn dude if the Spurs could land Rasheed the NBA might as well give us the Championship. Seriously.

I'd rather watch them win it. :D

[xtremesteven33]

http://i44.tinypic.com/5ej2vr.jpg

[HarlemHeat37]

I never believe "X to Spurs" rumors though..there are far too many of them every year that don't happen..this one is even more difficult to believe, because it's the perfect compliment to our team, and the perfect player that would put us over the top..

obviously the part that could make it realistic is what DPG said..Detroit isn't getting anything for Sheed, unless they trade him to a top-tier team, or a team that feels like he can put them up in the elite..Sheed playing for a bad team is an unmotivated Rasheed Wallace, which doesn't help them at all..

[TheSpursFNRule]

We are making progress!

[galvatron3000]

It might not be enough to just give Detroit one of them. I'd love to keep either Ian or Splitter's rights, but you might have to include both for Detroit to do it. Would the Spurs be willing to trade two young prospects for Rasheed? And what if Rasheed bolts next season? We're left with nothing.

Splitter IMO is by far the most attractive option for the Pistons if he's willing to come over because that would be like a lottery pick for them. I don't know if the Spurs want to do that though after the Scola trade ;).



I don't see the Pistons moving Sheed for anything other than expiring contracts, he won't be with them next season and they know it. Unless they send him to a contender (other than the Spurs) they won't get much or any offers because the other teams will just wait til the off season and most of the contenders can wait too because they don't want to trade any of their youg assets. The Lakers could once again screw us all and trade Bynum or Odom for Sheed and it will be over for the rest of the league and Kobe aand them will be on track for another Jordan-like double 3 peat, which the league would love. Hopefully Laker haters (like the Pistons) will pull a Memphis Grizzle and send Sheed to the Spurs for Bonner after redoing his contract for less and we can laugh as a small market team pulls a fast one on the big market big wigs.:bking

[manufor3]

make it happen

[xtremesteven33]

It has to happen.


Please basketball Gods.

[HarlemHeat37]

the Lakers would never trade Bynum for Sheed..

[DPG21920]

the Lakers would never trade Bynum for Sheed..

[Ice009]

I don't see the Pistons moving Sheed for anything other than expiring contracts, he won't be with them next season and they know it. Unless they send him to a contender (other than the Spurs) they won't get much or any offers because the other teams will just wait til the off season and most of the contenders can wait too because they don't want to trade any of their youg assets. The Lakers could once again screw us all and trade Bynum or Odom for Sheed and it will be over for the rest of the league and Kobe aand them will be on track for another Jordan-like double 3 peat, which the league would love. Hopefully Laker haters (like the Pistons) will pull a Memphis Grizzle and send Sheed to the Spurs for Bonner after redoing his contract for less and we can laugh as a small market team pulls a fast one on the big market big wigs.:bking

You guys don't think Detroit would be interested in DAF's suggestion of Mahinmi, Splitter's rights, draft picks and/or cash? Seriosuly how could Detroit not be even remotely interested? I think if that was offered The Pistons would start listening.

[DPG21920]

You guys don't think Detroit would be interested in DAF's suggestion of Mahinmi, Splitter's rights, draft picks and/or cash? Seriosuly how could Detroit not be even remotely interested? I think if that was offered The Pistons would start listening.

It has been widely reported that other teams have no interest in Splitter. No one believes he is going to ever come over. Not only that, Ian makes less than 1 million. So the Spurs would need to get a lot more money involved to make the trade work since Splitter has no contract value (and neither do draft picks).

[Summers]

The anticipation is making me crazy.

[Ice009]

It has been widely reported that other teams have no interest in Splitter. No one believes he is going to ever come over. Not only that, Ian makes less than 1 million. So the Spurs would need to get a lot more money involved to make the trade work since Splitter has no contract value (and neither do draft picks).

Those players are only there to sweeten the deal, not for salary purposes. You also include Horry's contract then you add a few more like Finley to make the numbers work who Detroit will then cut and we get back. Very unlikely to happen, but it is not impossible to work something out.

[DPG21920]

In all reality I do not see the Spurs making a trade. Sorry to buzz kill. I would like a smart trade or Rasheed, but I just do not see it.

[galvatron3000]

You guys don't think Detroit would be interested in DAF's suggestion of Mahinmi, Splitter's rights, draft picks and/or cash? Seriosuly how could Detroit not be even remotely interested? I think if that was offered The Pistons would start listening.

Possibly but I hope Ian is not included if a deal takes place. I don't think their is a market for Sheed outside of contenders because of his contract and knowing he won't stay. He will not be apart of the Pistons after this season either, IMO. I think within reason expiring contracts will be the order of the day or atleast ones that expire by 2010, which we have. Bonner, Udoka, Vaughn, Thomas, Finley, Manu etc.

Realistically, Manu is safe til 2010. Everyone else not names Tim, Tony and Roger are safe. Spurs can throw Thomas or Oberto in too but I'd like to keep Kurt too. Bonner would have to be involved in the trade because he spread the floor and has size. Hopefully they can make this trade happen without trading away useful players or more than one useful player. Bowen and Finley could go bt will likely be cut and resigned by the Spurs

[HarlemHeat37]

I actually do think we'll make a trade, but not for a big name like 'Sheed..

[DPG21920]

Those players are only there to sweeten the deal, not for salary purposes. You also include Horry's contract then you add a few more like Finley who Detroit will cut to make the numbers work.

Who can you add? How much do you sign Horry for? How much does this cost the Pistons to buy guys out? How much of that do the Spurs pay for?

[DPG21920]

Not to mention giving up Ian and Splitter (if we are assuming he is going to come over) is pricey for a possible rental.

[Ice009]

Who can you add? How much do you sign Horry for? How much does this cost the Pistons to buy guys out? How much of that do the Spurs pay for?

Well since we don't know how much you can sign Horry for I'd start by using his salary from last season and work from there, then you add other players to match up numbers. I also don't know the rules about trading 5 players to a team that already has a full roster. If you can't do that then you can forget about it.

Spurs should pay for most of the buyouts, but I don't think Holt would ever do that. I'd have to say that The Lakers would have included as much cash a possible for that Gasol deal last season, but I doubt the Spurs will pony up the cash.

It's highly unlikely though as it's getting more complicated by the minute trying to work out the numbers. You are right about that.

[Pistons < Spurs]

The only way I see Sheed in a Spurs uniform is if you wait till next year when he's a free agent, and sign him. The Spurs just don't have any pieces to make any sort of deal work in a trade.

[DPG21920]

Well since we don't know how much you can sign Horry for I'd start by using his salary from last season and work from there, ten you add other players to match up numbers. I also don't know the rules about trading 5 players to a team that already has a full roster. If you can't do that then you can forget about it.

Spurs should pay for most of the buyouts, but I don't think Holt would ever do that. I'd have to say that The Lakers had to have included as much cash a possible for that Gasol deal last season, but I doubt the Spurs will pony up the cash.

It's highly unlikely though as it's getting more complicated by the minute trying to work out the numbers. You are right about that.

You can only have 15 players on a roster. So Detroit would have to cut players before the trade to make roster room If we are trading 5 guys for 1

[Ice009]

You can only have 15 players on a roster. So Detroit would have to cut players before the trade to make roster room If we are trading 5 guys for 1

Well if that's the rule then it's not possible. I thought you could cut players after the trade. You 100% sure on this?

[Ice009]

The only way I see Sheed in a Spurs uniform is if you wait till next year when he's a free agent, and sign him. The Spurs just don't have any pieces to make any sort of deal work in a trade.

Are you guys looking to trade him at all? Even for Amare? What do you think Joe is looking for to trade him?

[DPG21920]

Well if that's the rule then it's not possible. I thought you could cut players after the trade. You 100% sure on this?

I am a 100% sure on the roster limits, so Detroit would have to cut people no matter what, whether it is before or after.

[Ice009]

I am a 100% sure on the roster limits, so Detroit would have to cut people no matter what, whether it is before or after.

If you can do it after a trade then that makes a big difference. If you're not sure on this maybe you shouldn't be saying that it's not possible, being able to cut players after the trade opens up more possibilities.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Are you guys looking to trade him at all? Even for Amare?

I think most of us fans are.... but Joe's only comment so far has been that he's not shopping anyone.

It's believed that he's mostly interested in using Sheed and AI for their expiring contracts for 2010's studs like Bosh and Amare. Which probably makes mroe sense than trading an asset like Sheed now for even a guy like Amare ... only to have him opt out after next year.

I'm not really expecting Detroit to make any moves before the deadline ... other than trying to trade away Alex Acker or Will Bynum. We're about 600,000 above the luxury tax threshold, and each of those guys makes 700,00.

[DPG21920]

If you can do it after a trade then that makes a big difference. If you're not sure on this maybe you shouldn't be saying that it's not possible, being able to cut players after the trade opens up more possibilities.

Where did I say it is impossible? I said you can only have 15 guys. So unless the Spurs trade a 5 for 1 then Detroit buys out 3 of the guys, it does not work.

[Ice009]

Where did I say it is impossible? I said you can only have 15 guys. So unless the Spurs trade a 5 for 1 then Detroit buys out 3 of the guys, it does not work.

I thought you knew for sure that you couldn't do a 5 for 1 trade with a team if they don't have 4 roster spots open.

If all you were saying is the NBA roster limit is 15 then what was the point of that? Almost any NBA fan knows the roster limit is 15 ;).

[DPG21920]

I think most of us fans are.... but Joe's only comment so far has been that he's not shopping anyone.

It's believed that he's mostly interested in using Sheed and AI for their expiring contracts for 2010's studs like Bosh and Amare. Which probably makes mroe sense than trading an asset like Sheed now for even a guy like Amare ... only to have him opt out after next year.

I'm not really expecting Detroit to make any moves before the deadline ... other than trying to trade away Alex Acker or Will Bynum. We're about 600,000 above the luxury tax threshold, and each of those guys makes 700,00.

This is exactly what I said. They can hit a homerun in FA next year, so unless they get a homerun player now in a trade (which there are not many scenarios, Amare being the most likely) they are not going to trade. The only other scenario is that they get a young guy who is not an impact player or great rotational player yet (beasley...) who is cheap and then they get expiring contracts as well. Meaning they get a young guy on a rookie scale contract and get to keep the majority of their cap space.

[DPG21920]

I thought you knew for sure that you couldn't do a 5 for 1 trade with a team if they don't have 4 roster spots open.

If all you were saying is the NBA roster limit is 15 then what was the point of that? Almost any NBA fan knows the roster limit is 15 ;).

Because it shows you that no matter what (before or after) that you have to cut guys/ buy them out if you are doing a 5 for 1.

[Ice009]

This is exactly what I said. They can hit a homerun in FA next year, so unless they get a homerun player now in a trade (which there are not many scenarios, Amare being the most likely) they are not going to trade. The only other scenario is that they get a young guy who is not an impact player or great rotational player yet (beasley...) who is cheap and then they get expiring contracts as well. Meaning they get a young guy on a rookie scale contract and get to keep the majority of their cap space.

Well you should have put it that way then. You could have simply said that the Pistons would not be interested in Splitter or Mahinmi as potentially good players and that they would maybe be interested in someone like Beasley.

I also seem to remember someone saying a while ago that some scouts think of Mahinmi has the potential to be an all star down the road. I don't, but maybe Detroit was one of those teams which is why I mentioned him and Splitter who just might be the best big in Europe right now.

Maybe they are only interested in somewhat proven commodities like your suggestion of Beasley.

[DPG21920]

It also shows you that if they are to buy guys out (3) that the Spurs can only give them 3 million total in "cash considerations" IIRC. So that means Detroit will have to pay for some.

[DPG21920]

Well you should have put it that way then. You could have simply said that the Pistons would not be interested in Splitter or Mahinmi as potentially good players and that they would maybe be interested in someone like Beasley.

WTF are you talking about? They could be intrested in Mahinmi and Splitter, just LIKE Beasley, although Beasley has played. They are not mutually exclusive events, they tie into each other.

[Ice009]

It also shows you that if they are to buy guys out (3) that the Spurs can only give them 3 million total in "cash considerations" IIRC. So that means Detroit will have to pay for some.

OK valid point. I'll say if they think highly of Splitter or Mahinmi they might be willing to pay for some of those buyouts. If we do a trade we also wouldn't have to match Rasheed's salary exactly, just come a certain percentage close to it which would probably put Detroit under the luxury tax and make them receptive to paying some of those buyouts.

[DPG21920]

OK valid point. I'll say if they think highly of Splitter or Mahinmi they might be willing to pay for some of those buyouts. If we do a trade we also wouldn't have to match Rasheed's salary exactly, just come a certain percentage close to it which would probably put Detroit under the luxury tax and make them receptive to paying some of those buyouts.

A traded player may be “simultaneously” replaced (i.e., in the same transaction) by one or more players whose salaries in the aggregate do not exceed 125% of the salary of the players being traded, plus $100,000

[Ice009]

WTF are you talking about? They could be intrested in Mahinmi and Splitter, just LIKE Beasley, although Beasley has played. They are not mutually exclusive events, they tie into each other.

You were basically saying they're not interested in Mahinmi cause he hasn't played much and Splitter cause it's widely regarded that he will never come over. Where have you heard this about Splitter? Last thing I heard was that he wanted to come over this season before than financial crisis.

Then you said that they'd be more interested in someone like Beasley who has played in the NBA already and shown some serious potential. I said fair enough to that suggestion because Mahinmi and Splitter haven't really played in the NBA to show what they can do.

[DPG21920]

You were basically saying they're not interested in Mahinmi cause he hasn't played much and Splitter cause it's widely regarded that he will never come over. Where have you heard this about Splitter? Last thing I heard was that he wanted to come over this season before than financial crisis.

Then you said that they'd be more interested in someone like Beasley who has played in the NBA already and shown some serious potential. I said fair enough to that suggestion because Mahinmi and Splitter haven't really played in the NBA to show what they can do.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...eAssets-090130

ASSET No. 8: Rights to overseas players
OWNERS: Orlando (Fran Vazquez), Oklahoma City (Serge Ibaka), Denver (Axel Hervelle), San Antonio (Tiago Splitter)

Vazquez (at right) has a contract (with a $7 million buyout clause) with FC Barcelona that expires after the current season, and the 11th pick of the 2005 draft has said he'd like to come to the NBA. The Thunder are constantly being asked if they'd be open to trading the rights to the athletic Ibaka, currently playing for Ricoh Manresa of the Spanish League, as is the case with the Nuggets and Hervelle, who plays for Real Madrid.

Splitter's rights are less valuable, because many in the NBA feel he'll never leave Europe, given that he would have to sign what amounts to a four-year deal starting at $940,000, the maximum he could earn under the rookie wage scale as the 28th pick of the 2007 draft. And that would be a pay cut.

[TheManFromAcme]

The addition of Sheed to your line-up would be good. To think it "takes you over the top" against the lineup of Gasol, Bynum and Odom is insane.

Some idiot in here believes (in his stupidly honest opinion) that Sheed would make the Spurs the favorites coming out of the west. Are you kidding me?

Your seasons of just above .500 are drawing nearer and nearer. There is no denying it. The grim reaper is waiting.

[ss1986v2]

You were basically saying they're not interested in Mahinmi cause he hasn't played much and Splitter cause it's widely regarded that he will never come over. Where have you heard this about Splitter? Last thing I heard was that he wanted to come over this season before than financial crisis.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=TradeAssets-090130&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines


Splitter's rights are less valuable, because many in the NBA feel he'll never leave Europe, given that he would have to sign what amounts to a four-year deal starting at $940,000, the maximum he could earn under the rookie wage scale as the 28th pick of the 2007 draft. And that would be a pay cut.

i think he may be referring to this.

*sry, beat me to it by 1 minute...

[DPG21920]

You were basically saying they're not interested in Mahinmi cause he hasn't played much and Splitter cause it's widely regarded that he will never come over. Where have you heard this about Splitter? Last thing I heard was that he wanted to come over this season before than financial crisis.

Then you said that they'd be more interested in someone like Beasley who has played in the NBA already and shown some serious potential. I said fair enough to that suggestion because Mahinmi and Splitter haven't really played in the NBA to show what they can do.

Also where did I say they would be MORE interested in Beasley than Splitter or Ian? I used Beasley as an example of a young, talented big on a rookie scale contract that was a lottery pick.

Although, they clearly would be more interested in Beasley, but that is not the point.

[Ice009]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...eAssets-090130

ASSET No. 8: Rights to overseas players
OWNERS: Orlando (Fran Vazquez), Oklahoma City (Serge Ibaka), Denver (Axel Hervelle), San Antonio (Tiago Splitter)

Vazquez (at right) has a contract (with a $7 million buyout clause) with FC Barcelona that expires after the current season, and the 11th pick of the 2005 draft has said he'd like to come to the NBA. The Thunder are constantly being asked if they'd be open to trading the rights to the athletic Ibaka, currently playing for Ricoh Manresa of the Spanish League, as is the case with the Nuggets and Hervelle, who plays for Real Madrid.

Splitter's rights are less valuable, because many in the NBA feel he'll never leave Europe, given that he would have to sign what amounts to a four-year deal starting at $940,000, the maximum he could earn under the rookie wage scale as the 28th pick of the 2007 draft. And that would be a pay cut.

That link doesn't work. How long ago was this written?

[DPG21920]

That link doesn't work. How long ago was this written?

A few weeks ago. Try this one:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=TradeAssets-090130

[TampaDude]

I love Sheed, but NFW he's ever gonna be a Spur...

[Pablo Escobar]

Reggie Miller on the deal that would put the Spurs over the top

Reggie Miller joined the show to analyze all the trade talk rumbling through the NBA. Here are some of his takes:

-- Miller says if the Spurs could obtain Rasheed Wallace, they'd be the favorites to win the West (even if the Lakers get Andrew Bynum back).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/48642/index.html

i heard that interview and the funny thing is that dan didnt even ask reggie about the spurs trading for sheed
so maybe something is going on

[DPG21920]

I would not count out next year as a FA. It makes perfect sense and I do not think he will command more than the MLE anyways.

[DPG21920]

Hey, if I am wrong, I will be the happiest guy on the board.

[BlackSwordsMan]

sheed on the spurs would give me a boner

[BlackSwordsMan]

I hope sheed read that and gave him extra incentive on being a spur

[Ice009]

Hey, if I am wrong, I will be the happiest guy on the board.

btw I'd say I agree with you more than anything I've said ;). I'm just trying to see if it is possible to make a deal. Even if we could work out a way to do it there is probably a 5% chance of it going through.

[Manufan909]

Sheed!!!!!!!! Jk, he would be the perfect addition to this team. And lol at the cowering Laker fans that don't think he'd put the Spurs on top.
:lol

[xtremesteven33]

Don Harris from WOAI


Take it with a giant grain of salt, but this close to the trade deadline the rumors are everywhere. In his "Trade Talk" article on ESPN.com, Marc Stein says Rasheed Wallace wants out of Detroit and wants to be a Spur.

Stein writes...

The surprise stems from the rumbles I've heard about Detroit free-agent-to-be Rasheed Wallace having legit interest in joining the Spurs to team up with his 2005 NBA Finals nemesis Tim Duncan, with 'Sheed chief among the Pistons unsettled by the realization that big changes are undoubtedly coming in that locker room.

Looking at the Spurs roster, I don't see a real trade possibility either. The Spurs aren't trading Duncan, Ginobili or Parker for Rasheed Wallace, and the rest of their roster doesn't offer a player that would entice Joe Dumars to forgo Rasheed's cap space use this coming summer.

Click here to read his full column..

There has also been talk about the Spurs trading for Brad Miller or Vince Carter, but the Sheed talk is getting most of the headlines because it was heard nationally on the Dan Patrick Show.

http://www.woai.com/content/sports/spurs/story/Trade-Rumor-Rasheed-Wallace-Coming-to-San-Antonio/GRMT7VFqi0GBOtkbaJDUGw.cspxv

[galvatron3000]

The addition of Sheed to your line-up would be good. To think it "takes you over the top" against the lineup of Gasol, Bynum and Odom is insane.

Some idiot in here believes (in his stupidly honest opinion) that Sheed would make the Spurs the favorites coming out of the west. Are you kidding me?

Your seasons of just above .500 are drawing nearer and nearer. There is no denying it. The grim reaper is waiting.


:nope:flag::nope

[SenorSpur]

Realistically, I really don't see the Spurs being able to land Sheed until the summer - when he's an UFA. The price tag for him is simply too high and the Spurs just don't have enough assets that would appeal to an astute GM like the Pistons Joe Dumars.

If the Spurs want to go big before the deadline, they'll likely have to find another lower-cost option somewhere. And there aint that many to be had.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think Rasheed Wallace would be a fabulous fit, depending on what the Spurs would have to give up. With the possibility of adding Bowen as Barry/McDyess-type filler in a deal, the odds go up to an extent.

I think the thing that seems most encouraging to me is that this is being reported in a lot of places by a lot of people who have sources inside the league. Of course, that should probably be more discouraging than anything else, since Pop is notoriously clandestine in trade talks and rarely pulls off something that is so widely talked about. Still, the Kurt Thomas deal last year seemed to be a pretty obvious move and was discussed here for days before it happened. I don't know that I'm completely unwilling to buy the possibility of Rasheed landing here at some point. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed; I really think Wallace would be a quantum leap for the Spurs.

And I think Ghost Writer's head would explode.

[koriwhat]

i just don't want to see the following off the roster...

big3+bowen
hill
ma$on
bonner
thomas
-mahinmi

[picnroll]

Of all the players press talks about Wallace is far and away my hope/dream, unlikely as it is. I'm with Miller, Wallace puts the Spurs ahead of the Lakers hands down. Wallace appears disinterested and I'm betting Pop would breathe fire in him like no coach he's ever had before. Lakers' fans would shit their pants if this deal went down.

[TheManFromAcme]

Of all the players press talks about Wallace is far and away my hope/dream, unlikely as it is. I'm with Miller, Wallace puts the Spurs ahead of the Lakers hands down. Wallace appears disinterested and I'm betting Pop would breathe fire in him like no coach he's ever had before. Lakers' fans would shit their pants if this deal went down.

Good additon, no doubt. But taking the Spurs over the top? W/O Bynum in the line-up than we can talk but your kidding me if you think Sheed is your panacea.

[picnroll]

Good additon, no doubt. But taking the Spurs over the top? W/O Bynum in the line-up than we can talk but your kidding me if you think Sheed is your panacea.

You must be TheBoyWithAcne and don't know what a motivate Wallace defends like. TD + Wallace could be return of the true twin towers.

[SenorSpur]

i just don't want to see the following off the roster...

big3+bowen
hill
ma$on
bonner
thomas
-mahinmi

I'm with you. Any combination that includes Finley, Udoka, Vaughn, Oberto, Spitter's rights, cash and future 1st round picks is just fine with me. Anything else and I would just wait to get Sheed for nothing this summer.

By the way, imagine a corp of bigs next year that could potentially include Duncan, KT, Ian, Bonner, Gist and Sheed.

[hater]

I would even let go of Ian, Bonner, Thomas for Sheed. But I agree, keeping Hill, Mason, Bowen + big 3 is a must

[EricB]

I would even let go of Ian, Bonner, Thomas for Sheed. But I agree, keeping Hill, Mason, Bowen + big 3 is a must

I'd let go Bonner and Mahinmi.

Thomas, maybe.

[WalterBenitez]

When Rasheed is coming, I die to be considered the worst and dirtiest team in NBA history.

[Budkin]

I think it's pretty strange to see people putting Bonner on their "don't trade" list, remembering that most of us have been calling for his head the last two seasons, including me.

[JamStone]

It would require one of the Spurs big three and either Mason or Hill just to let Dumars consider it. He won't trade Rasheed for junk. Rasheed is being rumored as the centerpiece in a package for Amare. But the Pistons should trade him for Vaugh, Udoka, and Thomas instead? Come on now.

It's either find another team to accept junk to give the Pistons a legit offer or wait til this summer for a chance at Rasheed.

[xtremesteven33]

Id trade Bonner for Wallace without even thinking about it.

This trade seems really far fetched but i got a feeling it COULD happen. I never want to say never and maybe Dumars looks at is as, its either trading him to a eastern conference team of a western conference team.

[EricB]

It would require one of the Spurs big three and either Mason or Hill just to let Dumars consider it. He won't trade Rasheed for junk. Rasheed is being rumored as the centerpiece in a package for Amare. But the Pistons should trade him for Vaugh, Udoka, and Thomas instead? Come on now.

It's either find another team to accept junk to give the Pistons a legit offer or wait til this summer for a chance at Rasheed.


For Rasheed Wallace at his age?

Yeah, wtf ever :lmao

[JamStone]

For Rasheed Wallace at his age?

Yeah, wtf ever :lmao

Precisely.

Exactly why the Spurs aren't going to be getting Wallace in a deal this year unless a third team is involved.

Get it? Anything outside the the Spurs Big 3 plus either Mason or Hill aren't assets the Pistons want. So, it would take that to make a deal. And, since of course the Spurs wouldn't offer that, the Spurs aren't getting Rasheed.

Understand?

[xellos88330]

Precisely.

Exactly why the Spurs aren't going to be getting Wallace in a deal this year unless a third team is involved.

Get it? Anything outside the the Spurs Big 3 plus either Mason or Hill aren't assets the Pistons want. So, it would take that to make a deal. And, since of course the Spurs wouldn't offer that, the Spurs aren't getting Rasheed.

Understand?

Doesn't hurt to hope though does it? :toast

[EricB]

Precisely.

Exactly why the Spurs aren't going to be getting Wallace in a deal this year unless a third team is involved.

Get it? Anything outside the the Spurs Big 3 plus either Mason or Hill aren't assets the Pistons want. So, it would take that to make a deal. And, since of course the Spurs wouldn't offer that, the Spurs aren't getting Rasheed.

Understand?


Look smartass, I can still fucking laugh at it, because if thats YOUR and the pistons expectations for what to get for him, your getting jackshit.

[xellos88330]

Look smartass, I can still fucking laugh at it, because if thats YOUR and the pistons expectations for what to get for him, your getting jackshit.

:lmao:lmao:lmao :flag:

[bigfan]

I think for a veteran player to come from another team and work out as a Spur, he has to be a high quality guy, like Finley or Kurt Thomas. Somebody that is coachable. This isnt to be confused with somebody that just wants a ring. Somebody who might get their ass chewed by Pop for poor defence. I think Rasheed is a great player but I really dont think he would work out here. He'd play ok but probably get all sullen and pissed off at Pop, Tim or whoever. It would be worse with Vince Carter I might add. Same for guys like AI, Stackhouse ect... Just to throw some names out, guys like McDyess, Kamen, Miller, those are the type of guys who would suceed under our system.

[my2sons]

Yes, he represents a risk, but when you are behind and chasing the Lakers, you need to take some chances. I'd even be willing to throw in Hill if it came to that. Hill, while a huge improvement over Vaughn, isn't going to put you over the top. Rasheed very well could.

One important variable in considering a trade like this, is how much Duncan has left? I'm much less inclined to throw Hill in if I think Duncan's championship window will last another three year or four years. If that's the case, maybe you wait til the off-season and try and get Rasheed on the cheap.

Bynums a bit of a hothead as well. Prior to that flagrant, he had been giving some tough hard fouls and received a few techs. Rasheed may be able to get under the kids skin and it could be a wash.

[Bartleby]

Sheed would thrive in SA, but it aint' gonna happen this season anyway.

[JamStone]

Look smartass, I can still fucking laugh at it, because if thats YOUR and the pistons expectations for what to get for him, your getting jackshit.

Look, dumbass, laugh all you want. I gave an opinion, and you're having a hissy fit over that opinion. If the Pistons get jackshit for Rasheed Wallace, then so be it. Jackshit is still more than Vaughn, Udoka, Thomas, Mahinmi, Bowen, Finley, and Bonner all together. That's reality.

[TheManFromAcme]

You must be TheBoyWithAcne and don't know what a motivate Wallace defends like. TD + Wallace could be return of the true twin towers.

What's the use? Shame on me for taking away the one thing we should never strip away from our fellow man (or boy in this case)......HOPE.

Should you land him (and I dearly hope you do) it will make it that much sweeter when your sent home packing.

Good luck.

[ATRAIN]

I would even let go of Ian, Bonner, Thomas for Sheed. But I agree, keeping Hill, Mason, Bowen + big 3 is a must

Yeah same here. The guys I would ship out Fin, Vaughn, Oberto, Thomas, Bonner, and Bowen. Everyone keeps saying a sign and trade deal with Horry, i dont see how that would work.

[bigdog]

Yeah same here. The guys I would ship out Fin, Vaughn, Oberto, Thomas, Bonner, and Bowen. Everyone keeps saying a sign and trade deal with Horry, i dont see how that would work.

the only reason that would work out with horry would be to match up salary-wise. that's the only reason he was being mentioned in trades.

[DPG21920]

Look, dumbass, laugh all you want. I gave an opinion, and you're having a hissy fit over that opinion. If the Pistons get jackshit for Rasheed Wallace, then so be it. Jackshit is still more than Vaughn, Udoka, Thomas, Mahinmi, Bowen, Finley, and Bonner all together. That's reality.

I disagree somewhat. If the Pistons are faced with letting him walk for nothing (which is not so bad because they get cap space) then getting a young upside big that does not cost a lot (Mahinmi) or that is off the books entirely (Splitter) is not a bad option as long as they get to keep the vast majority of the cap space as well.

I agree the Pistons will not trade Sheed unless they get a package like I described or like I outlined in the "perfect storm" scenario (Amare). The only teams Sheed helps are teams on the cusp of being champs. So not only do the Pistons have to find a team that fits that, but they also have to find a team with a young boarderline superstar that they are willing to part with in order to make their team better this year for a run at a title and that wants cap space. The Suns are the only team that fit that criteria imo.

But if that is not a reality, then getting Mahinmi and keeping your cap space sounds like a good deal if you are going to just get cap space anyways.

[SenorSpur]

It would require one of the Spurs big three and either Mason or Hill just to let Dumars consider it. He won't trade Rasheed for junk. Rasheed is being rumored as the centerpiece in a package for Amare. But the Pistons should trade him for Vaugh, Udoka, and Thomas instead? Come on now.

It's either find another team to accept junk to give the Pistons a legit offer or wait til this summer for a chance at Rasheed.

Which is exactly why I believe a more realistic scenario is that the Spurs will be able to get Sheed "free and clear" this summer, instead of now. Even if Sheed went to PHX in a package for Amare, it would be great to see him bolt after the season and sign with the Spurs.

Can you imagine the "piss and vinegar" that would be spewing in the desert among Suns management and fans if that happened?

[DAF86]

It would require one of the Spurs big three and either Mason or Hill just to let Dumars consider it. He won't trade Rasheed for junk. Rasheed is being rumored as the centerpiece in a package for Amare. But the Pistons should trade him for Vaugh, Udoka, and Thomas instead? Come on now.

It's either find another team to accept junk to give the Pistons a legit offer or wait til this summer for a chance at Rasheed.

Dumars only cares about cape space and getting at least something somewhat valuable for Wallace ('cause he isn't signing with the Pistons next year)

We give you Vaughn, Udoka, Finley and Horry's (if we have Bird rights) expiring contracts and add Mahinmi, the rights to Splitter, a draft pick and/or some cash compesation. Now tell me Joe wouldn't at least analyse this.

[FromWayDowntown]

Anything outside the the Spurs Big 3 plus either Mason or Hill aren't assets the Pistons want. So, it would take that to make a deal. And, since of course the Spurs wouldn't offer that, the Spurs aren't getting Rasheed.

Understand?

I'll admit that I haven't followed the Pistons' roster management very closely of late, but I'd wonder about that assertion given that 2 of the Spurs Big 3 (Duncan and Parker) and Hill have contracts that run beyond the summer of 2010. Given my understanding that the Iverson deal (for instance) was made to create cap space for that summer, I'd be hard pressed to believe that Dumars would be looking to take on any contracts that would interfere with that cap space. That leaves Ginobili and Mason, who don't make much sense for Detroit from a talent standpoint, given their current logjam at the wing positions.

Just my .02. There's no doubt that if Dumars is looking to get talent-for-talent, he's not making a deal with San Antonio (though at this point, I'm not sure he could get that for Rasheed anywhere); if he wants to protect his capspace in 2010 while trying to salvage some useful asset for Rasheed, the chances to do a deal with San Antonio go up -- but I'd agree that it's not by a whole lot.

[SenorSpur]

I disagree somewhat. If the Pistons are faced with letting him walk for nothing (which is not so bad because they get cap space) then getting a young upside big that does not cost a lot (Mahinmi) or that is off the books entirely (Splitter) is not a bad option as long as they get to keep the vast majority of the cap space as well.

I agree the Pistons will not trade Sheed unless they get a package like I described or like I outlined in the "perfect storm" scenario (Amare). The only teams Sheed helps are teams on the cusp of being champs. So not only do the Pistons have to find a team that fits that, but they also have to find a team with a young boarderline superstar that they are willing to part with in order to make their team better this year for a run at a title and that wants cap space. The Suns are the only team that fit that criteria imo.

But if that is not a reality, then getting Mahinmi and keeping your cap space sounds like a good deal if you are going to just get cap space anyways.

If I'm the Spurs I DO NOT trade Ian under any circumstances. Wallace would be a perfect fit in S.A, but probably for 2-3 years at the most. Ian is the only young, big, the Spurs have. A team as old as the Spurs can ill-afford to mortgage their future by dumping a promising kid like Ian.

Besides, if the Spurs do nothing, they'll still have a shot to get Sheed over the summer. Furthermore, if Dumars doesn't get the package he wants, he'll probably keep Sheed and use the cap space to his advantage.

[hater]

I think both Pistonfan and Spursfan are delusional on this one. No way Spurs trade big 3 or even Mason/Hill. But also no way Pistons get our junk players only.

I agree about a 3rd team need to be involved, Horry and a ton of CIA Pop

[EricB]

I'll admit that I haven't followed the Pistons' roster management very closely of late, but I'd wonder about that assertion given that 2 of the Spurs Big 3 (Duncan and Parker) and Hill have contracts that run beyond the summer of 2010. Given my understanding that the Iverson deal (for instance) was made to create cap space for that summer, I'd be hard pressed to believe that Dumars would be looking to take on any contracts that would interfere with that cap space. That leaves Ginobili and Mason, who don't make much sense for Detroit from a talent standpoint, given their current logjam at the wing positions.

Just my .02. There's no doubt that if Dumars is looking to get talent-for-talent, he's not making a deal with San Antonio (though at this point, I'm not sure he could get that for Rasheed anywhere); if he wants to protect his capspace in 2010 while trying to salvage some useful asset for Rasheed, the chances to do a deal with San Antonio go up -- but I'd agree that it's not by a whole lot.

He's not, and if arrogant jerk piston fan thinks they are getting Amare Stoudamire for him, they can put down the damn bong.

[DAF86]

Another thing to consider is that Rasheed has already said that he wants to play for the Spurs so let me ask you this: What team would trade for him knowing that next year there's a high posibility that he signs with SA?

[DPG21920]

If I'm the Spurs I DO NOT trade Ian under any circumstances. Wallace would be a perfect fit in S.A, but probably for 2-3 years at the most. Ian is the only young, big, the Spurs have. A team as old as the Spurs can ill-afford to mortgage their future by dumping a promising kid like Ian.

Besides, if the Spurs do nothing, they'll still have a shot to get Sheed over the summer. Furthermore, if Dumars doesn't get the package he wants, he'll probably keep Sheed and use the cap space to his advantage.

Ian makes less than 1 million. So if you give the Pistons a combo of expiring contracts, cash considerations and they buy out some guys, they get essentially all of their cap space still and get Ian.

If you are the Spurs, you get Sheed for sure now, do not have to worry about FA, can still resign him and if not, you now have 13 million in cap space next year to easily replace Ian for your future. This would be an epic move by the Spurs.

[ploto]

All this Horry stuff is not going to happen because he would actually have to report and show an intent to play.

[JamStone]

Joe Dumars was on the Mitch Albom show yesterday. He specifically stated that he is not giving up on the season. So, getting junk and prospects only is not something he will consider. He said he's open to a trade if it makes the team better. Dumars doesn't speak in smokescreens. Now, you can have all the hope in the world that the Spurs somehow find a way to get Rasheed this year. I'm telling you it's next to impossible. Dumars is not trading Rasheed just to trade him. He will trade Rasheed if he thinks it makes the team better. There's no good argument that Mahinmi and Splitter for the future makes the team better now.

[DPG21920]

Another thing to consider is that Rasheed has already said that he wants to play for the Spurs so let me ask you this: What team would trade for him knowing that next year there's a high posibility that he signs with SA?


Ian makes less than 1 million. So if you give the Pistons a combo of expiring contracts, cash considerations and they buy out some guys, they get essentially all of their cap space still and get Ian.

If you are the Spurs, you get Sheed for sure now, do not have to worry about FA, can still resign him and if not, you now have 13 million in cap space next year to easily replace Ian for your future. This would be an epic move by the Spurs.

[DAF86]

I think both Pistonfan and Spursfan are delusional on this one. No way Spurs trade big 3 or even Mason/Hill. But also no way Pistons get our junk players only.

I agree about a 3rd team need to be involved, Horry and a ton of CIA Pop

Do you undesrtand that Dumars only cares about cap space (Vaughn, Udoka, Finley, Horry) and maybe getting a few valuable young players (Mahinmi, Splitter, draft pick) add to that a little bit of money (3 mil on cash compesation) an it isn't so crazy to think that this might happen.

[DPG21920]

Joe Dumars was on the Mitch Albom show yesterday. He specifically stated that he is not giving up on the season. So, getting junk and prospects only is not something he will consider. He said he's open to a trade if it makes the team better. Dumars doesn't speak in smokescreens. Now, you can have all the hope in the world that the Spurs somehow find a way to get Rasheed this year. I'm telling you it's next to impossible. Dumars is not trading Rasheed just to trade him. He will trade Rasheed if he thinks it makes the team better. There's no good argument that Mahinmi and Splitter for the future makes the team better now.

So you think that if no other trade offers come his way, and this current Piston team is the one he is going to go with this year into the playoffs, he will be happy to go with that and then lose Sheed next year (although he gets cap space) for absolutely nothing, not even a young prospect?

[picnroll]

Pistons are going nowhere this year and would be best to get something for Sheed if it didn't jeporadize future cap space. The centerpiece of nay trade should be Mahinmi or Splitter depending on who the Spurs valued less. Pistons can get something for Wallace or keep him and hope to make it as first round playoff fodder

[EricB]

All this Horry stuff is not going to happen because he would actually have to report and show an intent to play.

Yeah just like KVH did last year :rolleyes

I know its gonna break your heart if the Spurs win again this year, so suck it up Pacer fan.

[JamStone]

I think both Pistonfan and Spursfan are delusional on this one. No way Spurs trade big 3 or even Mason/Hill. But also no way Pistons get our junk players only.

Never thought the Spurs would trade any of the big 3 or Mason or Hill for Rasheed. Merely stated that's what it would take to get talks going. I agree with you. That's basically what I was saying. Spurs wouldn't give up what it would take to get Rasheed from Dumars' point of view.

[EricB]

If Dumars thinks his current team is a contender with that retard Michael Curry as the coach, then he needs to be drug tested.

[SenorSpur]

Joe Dumars was on the Mitch Albom show yesterday. He specifically stated that he is not giving up on the season. So, getting junk and prospects only is not something he will consider. He said he's open to a trade if it makes the team better. Dumars doesn't speak in smokescreens. Now, you can have all the hope in the world that the Spurs somehow find a way to get Rasheed this year. I'm telling you it's next to impossible. Dumars is not trading Rasheed just to trade him. He will trade Rasheed if he thinks it makes the team better. There's no good argument that Mahinmi and Splitter for the future makes the team better now.

That said, Ian is a promising talent, but he's injured and is an unknown quantity. Again, Spurs would be FOOLS to include him in any scenario before knowing what his production can be.

If anyone thinks it's easy to just simply ship out and replace a 21 year-old, 6'11", promising PF/C, think again? It's not. Legitimate bigs don't grow on trees and the Spurs simply aren't in a position to keep drafting and developing such project players.

[FromWayDowntown]

Joe Dumars was on the Mitch Albom show yesterday. He specifically stated that he is not giving up on the season. So, getting junk and prospects only is not something he will consider. He said he's open to a trade if it makes the team better. Dumars doesn't speak in smokescreens. Now, you can have all the hope in the world that the Spurs somehow find a way to get Rasheed this year. I'm telling you it's next to impossible. Dumars is not trading Rasheed just to trade him. He will trade Rasheed if he thinks it makes the team better. There's no good argument that Mahinmi and Splitter for the future makes the team better now.

That's useful information. Thanks!

[DAF86]

Joe Dumars was on the Mitch Albom show yesterday. He specifically stated that he is not giving up on the season. So, getting junk and prospects only is not something he will consider. He said he's open to a trade if it makes the team better. Dumars doesn't speak in smokescreens. Now, you can have all the hope in the world that the Spurs somehow find a way to get Rasheed this year. I'm telling you it's next to impossible. Dumars is not trading Rasheed just to trade him. He will trade Rasheed if he thinks it makes the team better. There's no good argument that Mahinmi and Splitter for the future makes the team better now.

He pretty much gave up on the season the moment he traded Billups for Iverson (and I say this even though AI is one of my favorite players of all time :depressed)

[JamStone]

So you think that if no other trade offers come his way, and this current Piston team is the one he is going to go with this year into the playoffs, he will be happy to go with that and then lose Sheed next year (although he gets cap space) for absolutely nothing, not even a young prospect?

Yes. He's absolutely willing to do that, because it means a shitload of cap room to go after a legitimate big man. It doesn't guarantee the Pistons get one, but the Pistons have had plenty of experience with prospect big men from Darko to now Amir Johnson. It's not what Dumars wants. He'll play it out with this team if he doesn't get a trade offer that he feels makes the Pistons better now, this season.

[DPG21920]

He's not, and if arrogant jerk piston fan thinks they are getting Amare Stoudamire for him, they can put down the damn bong.

I can definitely see the Suns doing this trade (only if they get some other guys as well). The Suns still want to make a push this year, Rasheed helps them this year more than Amare. Rasheed expires next year so they get cap space and if they get another young prospect it helps them for the long term as well.

Detroit is not going to get anyone better than Amare in FA, so this is the best case scenario for them as well. Like I said, it is the perfect storm. Will it happen? I do not know. Would it shock me? Not at all.

[JamStone]

He pretty much gave up on the season the moment he traded Billups for Iverson (and I say this even though AI is one of my favorite players of all time :depressed)

In retrospect, that certainly appears to be the case. But, make no bones about it, at the time of the trade, that's not how he felt. He thought Iverson would be rejuvenated in Detroit and would at the very least keep the Pistons at the same level as before the trade. Obviously, that hasn't been the case. But, Dumars didn't give up on the season with that trade in his eyes. And, he isn't giving up on the season now either. You can disagree with that and make fun of it. But, that's the truth.

[DPG21920]

Yes. He's absolutely willing to do that, because it means a shitload of cap room to go after a legitimate big man. It doesn't guarantee the Pistons get one, but the Pistons have had plenty of experience with prospect big men from Darko to now Amir Johnson. It's not what Dumars wants. He'll play it out with this team if he doesn't get a trade offer that he feels makes the Pistons better now, this season.

What is the difference? You are seriously trying to tell me that 32 million in cap space + Mahinmi is worse than 33 million in cap space by itself? It is such a low risk/high reward situation.

[JamStone]

If Dumars thinks his current team is a contender with that retard Michael Curry as the coach, then he needs to be drug tested.

Thinking the Pistons is a contender and not giving up on the season are two different things.

You're post as if you're mad or something. Take a five minute break and drink some tea. Then come back when you're less anger-filled.

[JamStone]

What is the difference? You are seriously trying to tell me that 32 million in cap space + Mahinmi is worse than 33 million in cap space by itself? It is such a low risk/high reward situation.

The difference is he is not giving up on this season.

[DPG21920]

That said, Ian is a promising talent, but he's injured and is an unknown quantity. Again, Spurs would be FOOLS to include him in any scenario before knowing what his production can be.

If anyone thinks it's easy to just simply ship out and replace a 21 year-old, 6'11", promising PF/C, think again? It's not. Legitimate bigs don't grow on trees and the Spurs simply aren't in a position to keep drafting and developing such project players.

What you are failing to take into account is the Sheed's contract expires next year to the tune of 13+ million. You are telling me the Spurs cannot sign someone for the future (such as Ian would be for the Spurs) with that kind of money?

[ss1986v2]

What is the difference? You are seriously trying to tell me that 32 million in cap space + Mahinmi is worse than 33 million in cap space by itself? It is such a low risk/high reward situation.

one team has a chance to make some noise this season. the other is going to have to fight to stay in the bottom half of the playoff bracket. again, dumars isnt going to give up on this season. period.

[JamStone]

What you are failing to take into account is the Sheed's contract expires next year to the tune of 13+ million. You are telling me the Spurs cannot sign someone for the future (such as Ian would be for the Spurs) with that kind of money?

To clarify, if the Spurs were to somehow get Rasheed for the stuff people here propose, even after Rasheed's contract expires next year, they'd still be over the cap. They wouldn't have $13 million in cap space. They'd have the MLE and LLE. They'd still have to wait for the summer of 2010 to have any cap space, basically the same as it is now.

[EricB]

Thinking the Pistons is a contender and not giving up on the season are two different things.

You're post as if you're mad or something. Take a five minute break and drink some tea. Then come back when you're less anger-filled.

If your not a contender, then whats the point?

To just lose again in the playoffs?

Makes no sense.

[DPG21920]

one team has a chance to make some noise this season. the other is going to have to fight to stay in the bottom half of the playoff bracket. again, dumars isnt going to give up on this season. period.

Please show me any indication that the Pistons are going to make noise this year as currently constructed. Ask Piston fans if they think that is true.

I am sure Piston fans will feel slighted if this team packs it in, gets bounced in the first round and Dumars did nothing to get any value for Rasheed knowing so.

[ss1986v2]

Please show me any indication that the Pistons are going to make noise this year as currently constructed. Ask Piston fans if they think that is true.

I am sure Piston fans will feel slighted if this team packs it in, gets bounced in the first round and Dumars did nothing to get any value for Rasheed knowing so.

doesnt matter. dumars doesnt care about that. he wont give up, outcome be damned.

and our assets are of so little value that moving the heart of the team while simultaneously giving up on the rest of the season is not going to sit well with piston fans either.

[FromWayDowntown]

That said, Ian is a promising talent, but he's injured and is an unknown quantity. Again, Spurs would be FOOLS to include him in any scenario before knowing what his production can be.

If anyone thinks it's easy to just simply ship out and replace a 21 year-old, 6'11", promising PF/C, think again? It's not. Legitimate bigs don't grow on trees and the Spurs simply aren't in a position to keep drafting and developing such project players.

I'm not sure I agree with that necessarily. The Spurs, as best I can tell, aren't terribly concerned for the moment about the post-Duncan era -- nor should they be, I think. Given the opportunity to add a piece that could give them a chance to win another title or two while Duncan is in uniform is far more important right now than trying to sustain some relative degree of success after Duncan retires.

At this juncture, with the Big 3 basically within their control for the foreseeable future, the Spurs are far more concerned with winning now than worrying about what comes next.

If it takes giving up a prospect to get a known quantity, I think you do it.

With that said, I take JamStone's word that Dumars isn't looking to blow things up as instructive about what the Pistons are looking for and remain convinced that the Spurs will be hard-pressed to put together a package that would net them Wallace.

[DPG21920]

To clarify, if the Spurs were to somehow get Rasheed for the stuff people here propose, even after Rasheed's contract expires next year, they'd still be over the cap. They wouldn't have $13 million in cap space. They'd have the MLE and LLE. They'd still have to wait for the summer of 2010 to have any cap space, basically the same as it is now.

You are right, they would be at 57 million payroll at that point. Which is still a win for the Spurs. As of now, they would be a 70 million next year.

[JamStone]

Please show me any indication that the Pistons are going to make noise this year as currently constructed. Ask Piston fans if they think that is true.

Defeated Western Conference division leaders Spurs, Nuggets, and Lakers all on the road. Already beat the Cavaliers and Magic this year as well.

I don't think the Pistons will do much in the playoffs, but they certainly have the talent to surprise more than most of you suggest. They cannot beat Boston. But, in a 7 game series against Orlando and even Cleveland, they still could upset either one.


I am sure Piston fans will feel slighted if this team packs it in, gets bounced in the first round and Dumars did nothing to get any value for Rasheed knowing so.

As a fan, I don't want Dumars to trade Rasheed for junk. I like Rasheed. I've been a fan of his since before he became a Piston. Unless it's a deal that brings back a star player that can help the Pistons now and in the future, I don't want Rasheed dealt either. I won't feel slighted in the least bit if Rasheed isn't traded but still walks this summer. That has been a possibility all season, and I'm fine with that.

[SenorSpur]

What you are failing to take into account is the Sheed's contract expires next year to the tune of 13+ million. You are telling me the Spurs cannot sign someone for the future (such as Ian would be for the Spurs) with that kind of money?

You're wrong. Sheed's contract expires THIS summer.

http://www.sportscity.com/NBA/Detroit-Pistons-Salaries

Which means whether he stays put or is shipped out, the Spurs will be able to go after him this summer. Especially if Sheed is willing to play for a contender - and he seems serious about doing so.

The Spurs have invested 3 years in Ian. I'm not saying he's the second coming of David Robinson, but right now you don't what he is. If he recovers fine, he is expected to be part of the rotation next year.

My point is that it's not that easy to find 6'11", athletic big men with his kind of gifted ability. The Spurs cannot afford to keep mortgaging the future for the here and now. You do not trade him under any circumstances, until you know what you've got. Especially when the veteran big they want (Sheed) can likely be had this summer - for nothing.

[JamStone]

If your not a contender, then whats the point?

To just lose again in the playoffs?

Makes no sense.

The point is to get value if you trade something of value. What's been suggested in this thread isn't of value. So, it's better to stand pat then trade something of value for things you don't value.

Makes a lot of sense.

[2Cleva]

LMAO. Spurs fans talking about Mahinmi like he's actually done something.

Worse case for Dumars if he doesn't get someone like Amare for Sheed or AI now, he waits until this summer. Then he has the option of using Bird rights to re-sign Sheed and AI and play the game against next year - all while staying very competitive which means playoff revenue.

And if he's handing out a dontation, he at least is going to want a 1st round pick back from a likely lotto team.

Sheed would make the Spurs dangerous but the earliest that will be possible is next season if they get him for the MLE in FA.

[DAF86]

The point is to get value if you trade something of value. What's been suggested in this thread isn't of value. So, it's better to stand pat then trade something of value for things you don't value.

Makes a lot of sense.

isn't of value now but do you really think that Mahinmi, Splitter, a draft pick and money isn't of value?

[FromWayDowntown]

If your not a contender, then whats the point?

To just lose again in the playoffs?

Makes no sense.

Gotta sell tickets. Got got to entertain the people. And I suppose you take a chance that your group can catch lightning in a bottle, catch a break, and give themselves a chance to be there in the latter rounds of the playoffs.

I can see why Dumars isn't fully ready to cut-and-run with this team and why he'd be reluctant to take back scraps for a guy who might actually give his club and chance to reach Round 2, depending on seeding. At this point, Detroit would be the 5-seed playing a first round series against Atlanta -- and they're only 1 back in the loss column to the Hawks. With Rasheed, I think the Pistons could win that series and get into Round 2. They'd run into Boston or Cleveland at that point, but from a purely business standpoint, they'd get a couple of extra home games in that scenario, which isn't anything to scoff at. And you just never know -- God forbid that it happen, but if something were to happen to Lebron, the Pistons (in that scenario) might find themselves right back in the Conference Finals again.

It's an overly optimistic picture I'm painting, of course; but none of that is possible (I think) if they deal Wallace.

[2Cleva]

isn't of value now but do you really think that Mahinmi, Splitter, a draft pick and money isn't of value?

Mahinmi - who has done what in his professional career either than be tall?
Splitter - who may never come to the NBA.
A draft pick guaranteed to be one of the last 5-6 picks of the 1st round.
Money - Spurs don't often send out money in any trade - can't see Holt handing out $3mil.

[JamStone]

isn't of value now but do you really think that Mahinmi, Splitter, a draft pick and money isn't of value?

Little value compared to what Dumars would want in return.

First of all, the Spurs don't even have a first round pick this summer and even if they did, it's basically a second rounder because it would be late first round.

Splitter is of little value in the immediate future because he may never play in the NBA. Didn't he sign a three year contract this past summer?

Mahinmi is all potential. The Pistons have dealt with potential with Darko and now Amir Johnson. It doesn't exactly excite the crotch area.

Sorry, compared to what Dumars is looking for in return, it's very little value.

[DPG21920]

You're wrong. Sheed's contract expires THIS summer.

http://www.sportscity.com/NBA/Detroit-Pistons-Salaries

Which means whether he stays put or is shipped out, the Spurs will be able to go after him this summer. Especially if Sheed is willing to play for a contender - and he seems serious about doing so.

The Spurs have invested 3 years in Ian. I'm not saying he's the second coming of David Robinson, but right now you don't what he is. If he recovers fine, he is expected to be part of the rotation next year.

My point is that it's not that easy to find 6'11", athletic big men with his kind of gifted ability. The Spurs cannot afford to keep mortgaging the future for the here and now. You do not trade him under any circumstances, until you know what you've got. Especially when the veteran big they want (Sheed) can likely be had this summer - for nothing.

That is what I said, I said his contracts comes off the books THIS NEXT YEAR. Meaning after this season. It takes the Spurs from 70 million in payroll, down to 57 million in payroll and you get a chance to win this year and you can resign him cheap next year as well. Then it gives you more wiggle room for 2010.

[SenorSpur]

LMAO. Spurs fans talking about Mahinmi like he's actually done something.

Worse case for Dumars if he doesn't get someone like Amare for Sheed or AI now, he waits until this summer. Then he has the option of using Bird rights to re-sign Sheed and AI and play the game against next year - all while staying very competitive which means playoff revenue.

And if he's handing out a dontation, he at least is going to want a 1st round pick back from a likely lotto team.

Sheed would make the Spurs dangerous but the earliest that will be possible is next season if they get him for the MLE in FA.

My point exactly. Sheed would make the Spurs extremely dangerous. However, if you think the Spurs will be taking on his $13,930,000 this year - you're nuts. The Spurs will find a more economical way to acquire him. That means, getting him in FA over the summer.

For the record, no one is acting like Ian is Bill Russell. Fact is, no one knows what he is yet. Spurs have invested 3 years in him. They need to evaluate what he is before they ship him out. Anyway, he'll be difficult to include in any trade scenario because he's injured.

[dbestpro]

The issue of Splitter not playing in the NBA revolved around his sister. Sadly, she has passed away but the reality is Splitter may be more likely to play in the NBA now. As a result I would rather keep him than make him part of any trade.

[JamStone]

Gotta sell tickets. Got got to entertain the people. And I suppose you take a chance that your group can catch lightning in a bottle, catch a break, and give themselves a chance to be there in the latter rounds of the playoffs.

I can see why Dumars isn't fully ready to cut-and-run with this team and why he'd be reluctant to take back scraps for a guy who might actually give his club and chance to reach Round 2, depending on seeding. At this point, Detroit would be the 5-seed playing a first round series against Atlanta -- and they're only 1 back in the loss column to the Hawks. With Rasheed, I think the Pistons could win that series and get into Round 2. They'd run into Boston or Cleveland at that point, but from a purely business standpoint, they'd get a couple of extra home games in that scenario, which isn't anything to scoff at. And you just never know -- God forbid that it happen, but if something were to happen to Lebron, the Pistons (in that scenario) might find themselves right back in the Conference Finals again.

It's an overly optimistic picture I'm painting, of course; but none of that is possible (I think) if they deal Wallace.

Here's the thing. It's one thing to break up the team and start rebuilding for the future.

What a lot of Spurs fans in this thread are suggesting is that Dumars gift-wrap Rasheed and Pau-Gasol him to the Spurs. Dumars may respect Pop and RC and the Spurs. But, he's not Jerry-Westing Rasheed. What the Spurs have to offer, more relevantly willing to offer, is not something that is going to push Dumars into trading Rasheed to the Spurs. It's just not. That's the big bottomline. That's the point. The Spurs don't have much to offer to consumate a deal for Rasheed.

[TDMVPDPOY]

dont the spurs have 3 2nd round picks?

[FromWayDowntown]

The point is to get value if you trade something of value. What's been suggested in this thread isn't of value. So, it's better to stand pat then trade something of value for things you don't value.

Makes a lot of sense.

Just to continue to be the Devil's Advocate on every position in this thread, I think the question for Detroit is: What amounts to value? If the Pistons value capspace above all else, the Spurs could put together a deal that could maintain that while giving the Pistons a player (Hill, Mahinmi, Splitter, for instance). In that scenario, the Pistons get value insofar as they get to keep the capspace they covet while also getting a young player instead of nothing for Rasheed when he departs. Of course, that depends on the Pistons deciding that the young players the Spurs could offer would actually have value -- and as I've said, I'd agree that the pickings in SA in that regard are fairly slim.

If Detroit decides to ship out Sheed, I don't think Dumars does that without ensuring his capspace for 2010 and that likely means that the talent target in that deal from his standpoint is going to be a minor, younger player. Otherwise, it becomes very difficult to make any move to deal Rasheed.

[2Cleva]

My point exactly. Sheed would make the Spurs extremely dangerous. However, if you think the Spurs will be taking on his $13,930,000 this year - you're nuts. The Spurs will find a more economical way to acquire him. That means, getting him in FA over the summer.

For the record, no one is acting like Ian is Bill Russell. Fact is, no one knows what he is yet. Spurs have invested 3 years in him. They need to evaluate what he is before they ship him out. Anyway, he'll be difficult to include in any trade scenario because he's injured.


And that was just from the Spurs POV.

If Dumars wanted to give Sheed away, he'd deal him to a sure lotto team for a young prospect back who actually has played in the NBA.

As for next summer, Spurs just have to hope Detroit doesn't use him in a S&T or re-sign him. If he's offerred $10 mil for 1 year, he takes that over MLE for multiple.

[2Cleva]

Here's the thing. It's one thing to break up the team and start rebuilding for the future.

What a lot of Spurs fans in this thread are suggesting is that Dumars gift-wrap Rasheed and Pau-Gasol him to the Spurs. Dumars may respect Pop and RC and the Spurs. But, he's not Jerry-Westing Rasheed. What the Spurs have to offer, more relevantly willing to offer, is not something that is going to push Dumars into trading Rasheed to the Spurs. It's just not. That's the big bottomline. That's the point. The Spurs don't have much to offer to consumate a deal for Rasheed.


Bingo. Hell, even LA had more to offer in a large last year contract and a big man who was NBA ready (Marc Gasol).

People hate the kings because they aren't the kings.

:bking

[JamStone]

Just to continue to be the Devil's Advocate on every position in this thread, I think the question for Detroit is: What amounts to value? If the Pistons value capspace above all else, the Spurs could put together a deal that could maintain that while giving the Pistons a player (Hill, Mahinmi, Splitter, for instance). In that scenario, the Pistons get value insofar as they get to keep the capspace they covet while also getting a young player instead of nothing for Rasheed when he departs. Of course, that depends on the Pistons deciding that the young players the Spurs could offer would actually have value -- and as I've said, I'd agree that the pickings in SA in that regard are fairly slim.

If Detroit decides to ship out Sheed, I don't think Dumars does that without ensuring his capspace for 2010 and that likely means that the talent target in that deal from his standpoint is going to be a minor, younger player. Otherwise, it becomes very difficult to make any move to deal Rasheed.

I'm sorry if Spurs fans are going to vehemently disagree with me on this, but Ian Mahinmi doesn't seem to be any better than Amir Johnson. And, i don't think Amir Johnson is very good. As I've mentioned already, no, I don't think your scenario gives the Pistons much value at all.

[SenorSpur]

Here's the thing. It's one thing to break up the team and start rebuilding for the future.

What a lot of Spurs fans in this thread are suggesting is that Dumars gift-wrap Rasheed and Pau-Gasol him to the Spurs. Dumars may respect Pop and RC and the Spurs. But, he's not Jerry-Westing Rasheed. What the Spurs have to offer, more relevantly willing to offer, is not something that is going to push Dumars into trading Rasheed to the Spurs. It's just not. That's the big bottomline. That's the point. The Spurs don't have much to offer to consumate a deal for Rasheed.

Let me add to your point:

Last year, Memphis owner, Michael Heisley and GM Chris Wallace were desparate sellers. They literally handed Gasol over to the Fakers on a silver platter. Heisley later confessed that he regretted doing so.

Joe Dumars is not a desparate seller. Don't look for any panic moves, bad trades or junk deals from him.

[dbestpro]

My point exactly. Sheed would make the Spurs extremely dangerous. However, if you think the Spurs will be taking on his $13,930,000 this year - you're nuts. The Spurs will find a more economical way to acquire him. That means, getting him in FA over the summer.

For the record, no one is acting like Ian is Bill Russell. Fact is, no one knows what he is yet. Spurs have invested 3 years in him. They need to evaluate what he is before they ship him out. Anyway, he'll be difficult to include in any trade scenario because he's injured.

The 14 mil is not that bad. Trade Bowen 4 mil, Oberto 3.5, Bonner 3 mil sign and trade Horry and Splitter rights and you have a deal. Detroit would cut Bowen and Horry. Bowen's contract next year is only partially guarenteed and they would get the rights to Splitter who is more likely to be NBA bound in 2010. Bonner would give them the big that can keep the floor spaced like Sheed and Oberto gives them the smart inside big to eat up minutes and do the dirty work.

[JamStone]

dont the spurs have 3 2nd round picks?

The Pistons have three 2nd round picks this year too. They don't need any more 2nd round picks. In fact, they should get rid of one of the three they have now.

[FromWayDowntown]

Here's the thing. It's one thing to break up the team and start rebuilding for the future.

What a lot of Spurs fans in this thread are suggesting is that Dumars gift-wrap Rasheed and Pau-Gasol him to the Spurs. Dumars may respect Pop and RC and the Spurs. But, he's not Jerry-Westing Rasheed. What the Spurs have to offer, more relevantly willing to offer, is not something that is going to push Dumars into trading Rasheed to the Spurs. It's just not. That's the big bottomline. That's the point. The Spurs don't have much to offer to consumate a deal for Rasheed.

I think I've largely agreed with that.

I was just offering up an explanation for why Dumars might choose not to fold this season. I think my posts have uniformly suggested that if Dumars is truly looking to get talent-for-talent, the Spurs have no chance and that unless Dumars is consumed with maintaining capspace but wants to be sure to get something (even something relatively small) for Rasheed, there won't be a deal.

I don't disagree with your bottomline or your point.

[JamStone]

The 14 mil is not that bad. Trade Bowen 4 mil, Oberto 3.5, Bonner 3 mil sign and trade Horry and Splitter rights and you have a deal. Detroit would cut Bowen and Horry. Bowen's contract next year is only partially guarenteed and they would get the rights to Splitter who is more likely to be NBA bound in 2010. Bonner would give them the big that can keep the floor spaced like Sheed and Oberto gives them the smart inside big to eat up minutes and do the dirty work.

If you were Joe Dumars, would you do that deal?

Honestly, would you?

[DPG21920]

Here's the thing. It's one thing to break up the team and start rebuilding for the future.

What a lot of Spurs fans in this thread are suggesting is that Dumars gift-wrap Rasheed and Pau-Gasol him to the Spurs. Dumars may respect Pop and RC and the Spurs. But, he's not Jerry-Westing Rasheed. What the Spurs have to offer, more relevantly willing to offer, is not something that is going to push Dumars into trading Rasheed to the Spurs. It's just not. That's the big bottomline. That's the point. The Spurs don't have much to offer to consumate a deal for Rasheed.

I agree that it is probably not going to happen (just read the pages before this in the thread). I think Amare is the perfect and almost only trade scenario, but I am not sure if it will happen.

I was strictly arguing the point that if Dumars really thought that no other offers were coming in, and that the Pistons were not going to make noise this year, that he would be ok with getting a young prospect + keeping 99% of his cap space at the same time.

[DAF86]

The Pistons have three 2nd round picks this year too. They don't need any more 2nd round picks. In fact, they should get rid of one of the three they have now.

It could be a 2010 first round pick

[ss1986v2]

The 14 mil is not that bad. Trade Bowen 4 mil, Oberto 3.5, Bonner 3 mil sign and trade Horry and Splitter rights and you have a deal. Detroit would cut Bowen and Horry. Bowen's contract next year is only partially guarenteed and they would get the rights to Splitter who is more likely to be NBA bound in 2010. Bonner would give them the big that can keep the floor spaced like Sheed and Oberto gives them the smart inside big to eat up minutes and do the dirty work.
and it also scraps a portion of their cap space next year. pistons hang up if you call with that offer.

[2Cleva]

Let me add to your point:

Last year, Memphis owner, Michael Heisley and GM Chris Wallace were desparate sellers. They literally handed Gasol over to the Fakers on a silver platter. Heisley later confessed that he regretted doing so.

Joe Dumars is not a desparate seller. Don't look for any panic moves, bad trades or junk deals from him.

Yup.

It's like fantasy hoops. Find the mark and wear him down on the low until you get what you want.

Who the Spurs need to be talking to is teams like Golden State, Charlotte, and the Clippers. Brian Skinner wouldn't be bad.

[DAF86]

I agree that it is probably not going to happen (just read the pages before this in the thread). I think Amare is the perfect and almost only trade scenario, but I am not sure if it will happen.

I was strictly arguing the point that if Dumars really thought that no other offers were coming in, and that the Pistons were not going to make noise this year, that he would be ok with getting a young prospect + keeping 99% of his cap space at the same time.

The only way I see the Suns doing that is if they don't care about losing Rasheed next year. Do you think that they will trade for him knowing that next year he could sign for the Spurs of all teams?

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm sorry if Spurs fans are going to vehemently disagree with me on this, but Ian Mahinmi doesn't seem to be any better than Amir Johnson. And, i don't think Amir Johnson is very good. As I've mentioned already, no, I don't think your scenario gives the Pistons much value at all.

Of course it doesn't; it gives them more value than nothing, but it provides little "value" from a talent standpoint and serves mostly to get a little something for Rasheed while maintaining the cap space that his deparature will create for them.

Frankly, I'd be shocked if that was what Dumars wanted to do; I'm merely trying to find some way to understand what could conceivably compel him to do a trade like that one. By no means am I suggesting that it's likely or that it's even reasonable.

I don't think there's any realistic chance that Detroit trades Rasheed Wallace to SA. Period.

[ss1986v2]

It could be a 2010 first round pick

just for the record, it would have to be a 2011 1st. we cant trade our 2010 1st pick.

[JamStone]

Of course it doesn't; it gives them more value than nothing, but it provides little "value" from a talent standpoint and serves mostly to get a little something for Rasheed while maintaining the cap space that his deparature will create for them.

Frankly, I'd be shocked if that was what Dumars wanted to do; I'm merely trying to find some way to understand what could conceivably compel him to do a trade like that one. By no means am I suggesting that it's likely or that it's even reasonable.

I don't think there's any realistic chance that Detroit trades Rasheed Wallace to SA. Period.

Understood. I can agree that it gives the Pistons more than "nothing."

But, as you seem to also understand, Joe Dumars is willing to settle on "nothing" unless something of relatively greater value is offered.

[DAF86]

I don't think there's any realistic chance that Detroit trades Rasheed Wallace to SA. Period.

Bottom line is: If it is how Jamstone says that Dumars doesn't want to give up on the season yet, then yes we have no chance. But if it is like many BB specialist are saying around the league (that Joe is all about cap space) then we do have a chance. Specially 'cause not many other teams would want to get a desinterested Rasheed Wallace.

[DPG21920]

The only way I see the Suns doing that is if they don't care about losing Rasheed next year. Do you think that they will trade for him knowing that next year he could sign for the Spurs of all teams?

Maybe. The only reason I say no, is because the Suns are over the cap anyways next year so an expiring (Sheed) does not really help them.

But if they could get a good prospect (stuckey?) to go along with sheed, then they would consider it I am sure.

[FromWayDowntown]

Understood. I can agree that it gives the Pistons more than "nothing."

But, as you seem to also understand, Joe Dumars is willing to settle on "nothing" unless something of relatively greater value is offered.

I think that's what you've reported him to have said. I understand that to be his public position and I think your arguments are consistent with that position.

Now, I'll add that public positions on these things can frequently be bargaining devices intended to spur bidding on a player. It's easy for Dumars to say right now that he's not going to blow the team up and that he's looking to get talent-for-talent for 'Sheed. But in a week, when there aren't any offers there and with the hard decision to make, that could change. I'm not saying it will and I frankly think -- as my post discussing the likelihood of the Pistons advancing at least a round deep with Rasheed around suggests -- Dumars would do the franchise a disservice to take pennies on the dollar, talentwise, for Wallace.

With that said, and to make myself clear, I don't think there's any chance that Dumars reverses course to the point that he ships Rasheed Wallace to San Antonio. None.

[picnroll]

Here's the thing. It's one thing to break up the team and start rebuilding for the future.

What a lot of Spurs fans in this thread are suggesting is that Dumars gift-wrap Rasheed and Pau-Gasol him to the Spurs. Dumars may respect Pop and RC and the Spurs. But, he's not Jerry-Westing Rasheed. What the Spurs have to offer, more relevantly willing to offer, is not something that is going to push Dumars into trading Rasheed to the Spurs. It's just not. That's the big bottomline. That's the point. The Spurs don't have much to offer to consumate a deal for Rasheed.
Hard to see the Sheed/Gasol comparison. Gasol is a young player under a longer term contract going to a team willing to spend money. Sheed is a twilight player who's play has many saying he's out of gas and has an expiring contract meaning it could either be half season short term fix if he started plying better and/or cap relief. Better cap relief deals out their, namely LaFrentz.

Seeing as how Dumars traded Billups for AI I'm not to impressed with his GMing smarts. Not to mention Darko.

[EricB]

Understood. I can agree that it gives the Pistons more than "nothing."

But, as you seem to also understand, Joe Dumars is willing to settle on "nothing" unless something of relatively greater value is offered.


Settling for nothing has gotten alot of GMs fired. So if he likes his job, IMO, he better get something for him.

[JamStone]

Settling for nothing has gotten alot of GMs fired. So if he likes his job, IMO, he better get something for him.

I don't think Joe Dumars is worried about his job security.

But, I'll pass on that little piece of advice to him.

[EricB]

I don't think Joe Dumars is worried about his job security.

But, I'll pass on that little piece of advice to him.


With how crappy of a job hes done in the last couple years, I'd say he should be.

[ss1986v2]

Settling for nothing has gotten alot of GMs fired. So if he likes his job, IMO, he better get something for him.

so has selling out your fan base, and opening giving up on a season.

[JamStone]

Hard to see the Sheed/Gasol comparison. Gasol is a young player under a longer term contract going to a team willing to spend money. Sheed is a twilight player who's play has many saying he's out of gas and has an expiring contract meaning it could either be half season short term fix if he started plying better and/or cap relief. Better cap relief deals out their, namely LaFrentz.

Seeing as how Dumars traded Billups for AI I'm not to impressed with his GMing smarts. Not to mention Darko.

True, Gasol and Sheed are two different players at two different stages of their respective careers. My comparison wasn't on their age or level of play. The comparison was of a trade where one team gets a piece that really helps them and gives up very little in return. That's the comparison.

As for Dumars GMing smarts, well, it's no secret he's made his share of mistakes. And, quite a few that were major, major mistakes. There are very few if any GMs in any professional sports that are mistake-less. Dumars overall resume of work as a GM is pretty solid, despite those blemishes. And, more importantly, he followed up most of his mistakes by at least resolving them in one way or another. But, sure, Dumars deserves a fair amount of criticism for several of his moves.

[Pistons < Spurs]

17 pages? really? I think a Sheed and Duncan frontcourt would be an incredibly dangerous combo, and can appreciate Spur fans getting excited on the idea of it. But at some point reality has to set in. The Spurs do not have the pieces to make any sort of trade happen. It's very likely that every other team out there is in a better position to make a move for Sheed than the Spurs are.

Wait till the offseason, and then you've got a good chance of signing him to a deal.

[DPG21920]

With how crappy of a job hes done in the last couple years, I'd say he should be.

How in any way, shape, or form has he done crappy? Have you seen how consistent the are?

[JamStone]

With how crappy of a job hes done in the last couple years, I'd say he should be.

Last couple of years? This year isn't over, and last year the Pistons made it as far as the Spurs did. Should RC and Pop be worried as well?

Come on. You sound a tad bit over-the-top. Simmer down already.

[xellos88330]

The worst thing for NBA fans is the waiting until the trade deadline. I want to know what happens already!!!

[MarHill]

Here's the thing. It's one thing to break up the team and start rebuilding for the future.

What a lot of Spurs fans in this thread are suggesting is that Dumars gift-wrap Rasheed and Pau-Gasol him to the Spurs. Dumars may respect Pop and RC and the Spurs. But, he's not Jerry-Westing Rasheed. What the Spurs have to offer, more relevantly willing to offer, is not something that is going to push Dumars into trading Rasheed to the Spurs. It's just not. That's the big bottomline. That's the point. The Spurs don't have much to offer to consumate a deal for Rasheed.

JamStone,

I agree with you and a lot of Spurs fans seem think trades are so easy. You have to give up something in return to get something valuable from another team.

No shrewd GM is going to take someone else's lesser players for one of their best players just because they have respect for the people from that organization. It's a business and a trade has to have something for both teams.

I know a lot of Spurs fans point to the Gasol trade to the Lakers last season. Well...those type of trades are rare and Memphis was a losing franchise that needed cap relief and money.

I'm a Spurs fan and even though I would like if Rasheed came to San Antonio (and yes I would still have my reservations because he's an enigma!) I don't see a realistic scenario unless Joe Dumars decides to give him away or a third team becomes involved.

:flag:

[xtremesteven33]

Sheed is coming here anyways next year.

I dont see why Joe wouldnt at least dig into our barrell of monkeys and pull some out.

[Zarko's Ghost]

17 pages? really? I think a Sheed and Duncan frontcourt would be an incredibly dangerous combo, and can appreciate Spur fans getting excited on the idea of it. But at some point reality has to set in. The Spurs do not have the pieces to make any sort of trade happen. It's very likely that every other team out there is in a better position to make a move for Sheed than the Spurs are.

Wait till the offseason, and then you've got a good chance of signing him to a deal.

This doesn't make sense to me. If you concede that Sheed is likely to walk away from Detroit in the offseason, why would Detroit hang on to him? Mahinmi and draft picks may not be much, but it is better than nothing.

[EricB]

How in any way, shape, or form has he done crappy? Have you seen how consistent the are?

Uh... Trading Chauncey Billups for Allen Iverson?

Letting go Flip Saunders for Michael Freaking Curry?

You want to tell me those moves are winners?

[bigdog]

This doesn't make sense to me. If you concede that Sheed is likely to walk away from Detroit in the offseason, why would Detroit hang on to him? Mahinmi and draft picks may not be much, but it is better than nothing.

the cap space that Rasheed could create after this season for the Pistons could get them better than what the Spurs have to offer.

[EricB]

Last couple of years? This year isn't over, and last year the Pistons made it as far as the Spurs did. Should RC and Pop be worried as well?

Come on. You sound a tad bit over-the-top. Simmer down already.

Seeing as RC and Pop have 3 rings in the past 5, and the Pistons only 1, and can't get out of the conference Finals, I'd say theres QUITE a bit of difference.

I'm not over the top, I think the Iverson trade was a complete cluster fuck, and I think letting go Saunders while an idiot, for an even bigger idiot in Micahel Curry is an even WORSE move.

[EricB]

the cap space that Rasheed could create after this season for the Pistons could get them better than what the Spurs have to offer.

They would get no cap space next year.

Not till 2010.

[JamStone]

Seeing as RC and Pop have 3 rings in the past 5, and the Pistons only 1, and can't get out of the conference Finals, I'd say theres QUITE a bit of difference.

I'm not over the top, I think the Iverson trade was a complete cluster fuck, and I think letting go Saunders while an idiot, for an even bigger idiot in Micahel Curry is an even WORSE move.

Seeing how there are about 25 or so teams in the league that can't even get to a conference finals, much less 6 in a row, I'd say you really are over-the-top.

The Iverson trade definitely hasn't worked on the court. But, you'd be completely naive to think that it was the only reason the trade was made. Yes, the basketball part hasn't worked out, but the cap space remains a big part of why the trade went down. I agree Curry was a bad hire, as would most Pistons fans. Unfortunately, there aren't many better options. It's not like Pop is going to leave the Spurs to coach the Pistons.

[DAF86]

the cap space that Rasheed could create after this season for the Pistons could get them better than what the Spurs have to offer.

What you're missing to realize is that the Spurs have enough expiring contracts (counting Horrys) to still provide that cap space to the Pistons while getting them some interesting extra assets like Mahinmi, Splitter, a draft pick and some cash.

[JamStone]

They would get no cap space next year.

Not till 2010.

As it stands right now, the Pistons have about $20 million in cap space this summer, and will have about $30 million in 2010. That's as it stands now before any moves are made, draft pick signings, trades or free agent signings.

[JamStone]

This doesn't make sense to me. If you concede that Sheed is likely to walk away from Detroit in the offseason, why would Detroit hang on to him? Mahinmi and draft picks may not be much, but it is better than nothing.

Because Dumars is not conceding the season.

The Pistons have enough talent to challenge any team in the East except for Boston. If they can avoid Boston, the Pistons can still conceivably beat either Orlando or Cleveland in a 7 game series. Not likely, certainly not guaranteed, but it's possible. If that happens and the Pistons find themselves in the Finals, anything can happen.

Look, I understand that it won't happen. But, that's the way Dumars is approaching it. Call it delusional. That's fine. In the Eastern Conference, where there are three great teams and the rest are also-rans, the Pistons are going to make the playoffs. And, they still have the talent to challenge. And, look at Jameer Nelson done for the season and Cleveland has had four key injuries already. Dumars is not giving up on the season and having a whole-sale on his roster.

Dumars is content with keeping the team as is and seeing what they can do in the playoffs, and ultimately letting Rasheed walk. That's what some of you still aren't getting. He's not giving up Rasheed unless he gets something in return that he feels helps the team right now. He doesn't want just expiring contracts and future draft picks and rights to players. He wants player/s in return that can help the team.

You can bitch all you want on how stupid Dumars is to take that approach, but that's the approach he has. Rasheed is not available for role players, bench reserves, prospects, and future draft picks.

[JamStone]

Sheed is coming here anyways next year.

I dont see why Joe wouldnt at least dig into our barrell of monkeys and pull some out.

Don't want dead monkeys.

If the Spurs had some gorillas to offer, then it would be possible.

Wait for the summer, and the Spurs have a great chance to land Rasheed.

[DrHouse]

Because Dumars is not conceding the season.

The Pistons have enough talent to challenge any team in the East except for Boston. If they can avoid Boston, the Pistons can still conceivably beat either Orlando or Cleveland in a 7 game series. Not likely, certainly not guaranteed, but it's possible. If that happens and the Pistons find themselves in the Finals, anything can happen.

Look, I understand that it won't happen. But, that's the way Dumars is approaching it. Call it delusional. That's fine. In the Eastern Conference, where there are three great teams and the rest are also-rans, the Pistons are going to make the playoffs. And, they still have the talent to challenge. And, look at Jameer Nelson done for the season and Cleveland has had four key injuries already. Dumars is not giving up on the season and having a whole-sale on his roster.

Dumars is content with keeping the team as is and seeing what they can do in the playoffs, and ultimately letting Rasheed walk. That's what some of you still aren't getting. He's not giving up Rasheed unless he gets something in return that he feels helps the team right now. He doesn't want just expiring contracts and future draft picks and rights to players. He wants player/s in return that can help the team.

You can bitch all you want on how stupid Dumars is to take that approach, but that's the approach he has. Rasheed is not available for role players, bench reserves, prospects, and future draft picks.

People also need to consider the business aspect of all of this.

Playoff revenue.

[xtremesteven33]

Don't want dead monkeys.

If the Spurs had some gorillas to offer, then it would be possible.

Wait for the summer, and the Spurs have a great chance to land Rasheed.

Yea im sure theyll be getting back a great player for Sheed..:rolleyes

[MarHill]

Because Dumars is not conceding the season.

The Pistons have enough talent to challenge any team in the East except for Boston. If they can avoid Boston, the Pistons can still conceivably beat either Orlando or Cleveland in a 7 game series. Not likely, certainly not guaranteed, but it's possible. If that happens and the Pistons find themselves in the Finals, anything can happen.

Look, I understand that it won't happen. But, that's the way Dumars is approaching it. Call it delusional. That's fine. In the Eastern Conference, where there are three great teams and the rest are also-rans, the Pistons are going to make the playoffs. And, they still have the talent to challenge. And, look at Jameer Nelson done for the season and Cleveland has had four key injuries already. Dumars is not giving up on the season and having a whole-sale on his roster.

Dumars is content with keeping the team as is and seeing what they can do in the playoffs, and ultimately letting Rasheed walk. That's what some of you still aren't getting. He's not giving up Rasheed unless he gets something in return that he feels helps the team right now. He doesn't want just expiring contracts and future draft picks and rights to players. He wants player/s in return that can help the team.

You can bitch all you want on how stupid Dumars is to take that approach, but that's the approach he has. Rasheed is not available for role players, bench reserves, prospects, and future draft picks.


Jamstone,

I agree with you again. I know that doesn't make a great post.

But we have 17 or 18 pages on this topic and as a Spurs fan I don't see a realistic scenario happening without a third team involved. And that's iffy at the best.

Teams are not going to trade something value just to help the Spurs. I would like that a lot....but it's fantasyland as of now!!

:flag:

[ss1986v2]

Yea im sure theyll be getting back a great player for Sheed..:rolleyes

then they wont trade him. i dont know what so hard to get about this...

[MarHill]

People also need to consider the business aspect of all of this.

Playoff revenue.

Unfortunately, a lot of Spurs fans are forgetting that!

In the quest to beat the Lakers.......they are taking something that has a skin of possibility beyond realisitic purposes.


:flag:

[xtremesteven33]

Guess who we play on the trade deadline?

[spursreport]

It'd be nice if Dumars could do a favor for us. After all we did let his one hit wonder team have their fame in 2004 before taking it back in 2005. Then again getting your heart broken 81-74 game 7 of the 2005 finals is more than enough reason to believe why he wont help us. Understandable too.

[SenorSpur]

Guess who we play on the trade deadline?

Oh, the delicious drama! There will be a lot to talk about that day.