duncan228
02-07-2009, 12:08 AM
NBA autographs: When a hobby is hard work (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/NBA_autographs_When_a_hobby_is_hard_work.html)
By Bryan Chu - Express-News
Gripping a fistful of mint-condition basketball cards, twin brothers Joseph and Jacob Riojas, 28, wait patiently, swaying back and forth, as the Los Angeles Lakers’ team bus pulls into a downtown San Antonio hotel after playing in Houston.
It’s 1:15 a.m. on a recent Wednesday.
Today’s target: Lakers star Kobe Bryant.
No luck.
Thirty minutes later, Bryant, wearing gray sweats and a hoodie, strolls out of the hotel with two bodyguards and walks down the street.
“He’ll be back,” Joseph says.
It’s 2:47 a.m.
In the distance, three figures appear. It’s Bryant. Joseph approaches him for an autograph. A bodyguard steps in.
“Not right now,” he says, escorting Bryant back into the hotel.
Failing to get a single signature happens. The Riojas brothers shrug it off. It’s the drive and the adrenaline that keep these two and others like them going. They are sports fans, but they are also collectors, or to others, autograph mafia or hounders.
They plan. They calculate when visiting NBA teams come in to town, and they scout out where they will be staying. It’s all about timing, precision, preparation and sometimes luck. It’s become a culture.
“It’s like hunting,” said Sean Pate, 30, who has been collecting autographs for 22 years. “Just to see if you’re going to get the signature. The tougher, the better. If you don’t get it, that means you have to work harder at the restaurants and hotels.”
Some go as far as chasing athletes down the street. Not Joseph.
“You have to save some sort of pride,” he said.
THE DON
Fourteen hours later — in the middle of the workday — the Riojas brothers are waiting for the Lakers to board the bus to go to the AT&T Center. They are jammed in between people whose occupations run the gamut: a Toyota body shop worker, financial consultant, student, oil field worker and salesperson at Coach.
Then there’s Ruth Palmer, a retired San Antonio elementary school teacher. She’s nearly engulfed by the mob, but she manages to get Trevor Ariza to sign a basketball card.
It never used to be this way, Palmer said.
Before, players would sign everything, but now there are so many people asking for autographs they stop, Palmer said. Tack that onto money and attention from the media, and “that’s the cause of it all,” said Palmer, adding later “it’s not all of the players’ fault.”
Palmer has been collecting for 30 years. She is 66 years old. The regulars in San Antonio swear she is the first autograph-seeker in the area. They call her “The Don.”
She started collecting in the late-1970s because her son, John, who was 5 at the time, went after autographs as a water boy for the now-defunct San Antonio Gunslingers.
Since then, her treasure trove has mushroomed to more than 10,000 autographed pieces, from cards to Sports Illustrated magazines, which she keeps in boxes in her son’s room.
She has signatures from nearly everyone, including some of the NBA’s greats: Jerry West, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson. Michael Jordan signatures? Yawn. Too many too count, said Palmer, adding her favorite piece is a signed Life magazine of Muhammad Ali.
The only notable NBA players to have eluded her are the Celtics’ Kevin Garnett and Cavaliers’ LeBron James. Rumor has it, James only signed his rookie season and Garnett has never signed.
But, that’s what keeps Palmer going.
“It’s a challenge to see how many I can get,” said Palmer, moments after getting Pacers rookie Brandon Rush’s signature on the cover of the 2008 Sports Illustrated NCAA tournament preview — the one with him in a Kansas jersey. “I want the scribble.”
Stories seem to flow out of Palmer’s mouth like a camp counselor feeding tales to wide-eyed kids surrounding a campfire.
Palmer said she once took 7-foot-2 center Dikembe Mutombo, who was with the Nuggets at the time, in her Chevy Nova station wagon to Taco Cabana. She took former Timberwolves big man Sam Mitchell and former Piston Rick Mahorn shopping at the North Star Mall.
She befriended Jordan during his rookie year at an airport while the two looked for ice cream. They got so chummy, Jordan still calls her Mrs. Palmer.
“One time (Jordan) saw this big crowd at Hemisfair Park,” Palmer said. “He grabbed my arm and walked me through the crowd so he didn’t have to sign everyone’s things.”
Interestingly enough, Palmer does not keep up with the modern players: no cable TV or Internet. Often times she taps young collectors and asks, “Who’s that coming out?” as she tilts her glasses down and shuffles through her alphabetically ordered cards.
Her secret weapon to getting signatures: “If you notice, I talk to the players like people,” said Palmer after getting a signature from Pacers All-Star Danny Granger. “I don’t put them on a pedestal.”
RIGHT PLACE, RIGHT TIME
In the old days, Palmer said she went into hotels and invited players out to eat.
Now, she waits outside hotels with the other collectors. Getting one autograph is considered a good day. Pate remembers once waiting 14 hours for a BB King autograph.
While BB King may not remember Pate, some NBA players do recognize the regulars.
“Sometimes I feel funny about the guys who are out there for every single night, every single team, for years at a time just to sell it and make a profit,” said Pacers guard Jarrett Jack, who grew up collecting cards — his favorite a SkyBox Anfernee Hardaway rookie card. “I think it’s a cheesy way of going about doing things, taking people’s kindness and trying to get some money out of it. (Players) always wonder why you would want the same autograph five to six times.
Then again, “even if they are selling it and making money off of it, big deal. I make enough money, and I don’t want to stop people from making money,” Granger said.
The biggest misconception is everyone is out to sell, said Don Bonnin, 47, who has been collecting since he was 8 years old.
“Those guys ruin it for the rest of us,” he said. “For a lot of us, we’re doing this to have fun and hang out with people with similar interests.”
Yet the hobby and fun of collecting autographs has changed.
“There’s a dark side to it,” said an NBA team security director, a former collector who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “(Fans) are getting indignant. They stick items in (player’s) faces.
“You wonder why people want to be reclusive? Because they are constantly hounded. A lot of players have told me they feel offended when they see things on eBay, like they signed it for someone out of courtesy and then it repeatedly shows up (on the Internet).”
The Internet has done wonders for hardcore hounders. Web sites such as SportsGraphing.com, an autographing community whose slogan is “It’s not a hobby, it’s an addiction,” are forums for collectors to share information on where athletes are making appearances and what some of their tendencies are when signing. Example: Bryant, who hasn’t given many autographs since a superb signing season after his case in Colorado, doesn’t sign items featuring his old jersey, No. 8.
Sometimes, getting a signature means bringing reinforcements.
“I’ve seen people take a whole family just to get as many autographs as possible,” said Joseph Riojas, who has been collecting on and off since 2000 and has more than 1,000 items autographed. “They use their children, girlfriend, wife and sister.
“Pretty much everyone has done it at one point. I use my 10-year-old son to get signatures because he’s cute-looking.”
But even all that prepping isn’t a guarantee.
“It’s luck sometimes,” Pate said. “Right place, right time.”
Just ask the Riojas brothers, who walked away that Wednesday afternoon, once again, empty-handed.
WARNING SIGNS
The Express-News took an informal poll of autograph seekers to find out the NBA’s best and worst signers, as well as the top excuses for not forking over a signature:
FIVE BEST
1. Kevin Durant, Thunder
2. Dwight Howard, Magic
3. Manu Ginobili, Spurs
4. Shaquille O’Neal, Heat
5. Deron Williams, Jazz
FIVE WORST
Kevin Garnett, Celtics
LeBron James, Cavaliers
Vince Carter, Nets
Kobe Bryant, Lakers
Tim Duncan, Spurs
TOP LOP LINES/EXCUSES
“I’ll get you at the game/later.”
“I’m on the phone.” *
None (player ignores crowds completely).
“Nah, it’s going to end up on eBay.”
“I don’t do that.”
* —Player pretends to use cell phone away while passing through crowd
By Bryan Chu - Express-News
Gripping a fistful of mint-condition basketball cards, twin brothers Joseph and Jacob Riojas, 28, wait patiently, swaying back and forth, as the Los Angeles Lakers’ team bus pulls into a downtown San Antonio hotel after playing in Houston.
It’s 1:15 a.m. on a recent Wednesday.
Today’s target: Lakers star Kobe Bryant.
No luck.
Thirty minutes later, Bryant, wearing gray sweats and a hoodie, strolls out of the hotel with two bodyguards and walks down the street.
“He’ll be back,” Joseph says.
It’s 2:47 a.m.
In the distance, three figures appear. It’s Bryant. Joseph approaches him for an autograph. A bodyguard steps in.
“Not right now,” he says, escorting Bryant back into the hotel.
Failing to get a single signature happens. The Riojas brothers shrug it off. It’s the drive and the adrenaline that keep these two and others like them going. They are sports fans, but they are also collectors, or to others, autograph mafia or hounders.
They plan. They calculate when visiting NBA teams come in to town, and they scout out where they will be staying. It’s all about timing, precision, preparation and sometimes luck. It’s become a culture.
“It’s like hunting,” said Sean Pate, 30, who has been collecting autographs for 22 years. “Just to see if you’re going to get the signature. The tougher, the better. If you don’t get it, that means you have to work harder at the restaurants and hotels.”
Some go as far as chasing athletes down the street. Not Joseph.
“You have to save some sort of pride,” he said.
THE DON
Fourteen hours later — in the middle of the workday — the Riojas brothers are waiting for the Lakers to board the bus to go to the AT&T Center. They are jammed in between people whose occupations run the gamut: a Toyota body shop worker, financial consultant, student, oil field worker and salesperson at Coach.
Then there’s Ruth Palmer, a retired San Antonio elementary school teacher. She’s nearly engulfed by the mob, but she manages to get Trevor Ariza to sign a basketball card.
It never used to be this way, Palmer said.
Before, players would sign everything, but now there are so many people asking for autographs they stop, Palmer said. Tack that onto money and attention from the media, and “that’s the cause of it all,” said Palmer, adding later “it’s not all of the players’ fault.”
Palmer has been collecting for 30 years. She is 66 years old. The regulars in San Antonio swear she is the first autograph-seeker in the area. They call her “The Don.”
She started collecting in the late-1970s because her son, John, who was 5 at the time, went after autographs as a water boy for the now-defunct San Antonio Gunslingers.
Since then, her treasure trove has mushroomed to more than 10,000 autographed pieces, from cards to Sports Illustrated magazines, which she keeps in boxes in her son’s room.
She has signatures from nearly everyone, including some of the NBA’s greats: Jerry West, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson. Michael Jordan signatures? Yawn. Too many too count, said Palmer, adding her favorite piece is a signed Life magazine of Muhammad Ali.
The only notable NBA players to have eluded her are the Celtics’ Kevin Garnett and Cavaliers’ LeBron James. Rumor has it, James only signed his rookie season and Garnett has never signed.
But, that’s what keeps Palmer going.
“It’s a challenge to see how many I can get,” said Palmer, moments after getting Pacers rookie Brandon Rush’s signature on the cover of the 2008 Sports Illustrated NCAA tournament preview — the one with him in a Kansas jersey. “I want the scribble.”
Stories seem to flow out of Palmer’s mouth like a camp counselor feeding tales to wide-eyed kids surrounding a campfire.
Palmer said she once took 7-foot-2 center Dikembe Mutombo, who was with the Nuggets at the time, in her Chevy Nova station wagon to Taco Cabana. She took former Timberwolves big man Sam Mitchell and former Piston Rick Mahorn shopping at the North Star Mall.
She befriended Jordan during his rookie year at an airport while the two looked for ice cream. They got so chummy, Jordan still calls her Mrs. Palmer.
“One time (Jordan) saw this big crowd at Hemisfair Park,” Palmer said. “He grabbed my arm and walked me through the crowd so he didn’t have to sign everyone’s things.”
Interestingly enough, Palmer does not keep up with the modern players: no cable TV or Internet. Often times she taps young collectors and asks, “Who’s that coming out?” as she tilts her glasses down and shuffles through her alphabetically ordered cards.
Her secret weapon to getting signatures: “If you notice, I talk to the players like people,” said Palmer after getting a signature from Pacers All-Star Danny Granger. “I don’t put them on a pedestal.”
RIGHT PLACE, RIGHT TIME
In the old days, Palmer said she went into hotels and invited players out to eat.
Now, she waits outside hotels with the other collectors. Getting one autograph is considered a good day. Pate remembers once waiting 14 hours for a BB King autograph.
While BB King may not remember Pate, some NBA players do recognize the regulars.
“Sometimes I feel funny about the guys who are out there for every single night, every single team, for years at a time just to sell it and make a profit,” said Pacers guard Jarrett Jack, who grew up collecting cards — his favorite a SkyBox Anfernee Hardaway rookie card. “I think it’s a cheesy way of going about doing things, taking people’s kindness and trying to get some money out of it. (Players) always wonder why you would want the same autograph five to six times.
Then again, “even if they are selling it and making money off of it, big deal. I make enough money, and I don’t want to stop people from making money,” Granger said.
The biggest misconception is everyone is out to sell, said Don Bonnin, 47, who has been collecting since he was 8 years old.
“Those guys ruin it for the rest of us,” he said. “For a lot of us, we’re doing this to have fun and hang out with people with similar interests.”
Yet the hobby and fun of collecting autographs has changed.
“There’s a dark side to it,” said an NBA team security director, a former collector who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “(Fans) are getting indignant. They stick items in (player’s) faces.
“You wonder why people want to be reclusive? Because they are constantly hounded. A lot of players have told me they feel offended when they see things on eBay, like they signed it for someone out of courtesy and then it repeatedly shows up (on the Internet).”
The Internet has done wonders for hardcore hounders. Web sites such as SportsGraphing.com, an autographing community whose slogan is “It’s not a hobby, it’s an addiction,” are forums for collectors to share information on where athletes are making appearances and what some of their tendencies are when signing. Example: Bryant, who hasn’t given many autographs since a superb signing season after his case in Colorado, doesn’t sign items featuring his old jersey, No. 8.
Sometimes, getting a signature means bringing reinforcements.
“I’ve seen people take a whole family just to get as many autographs as possible,” said Joseph Riojas, who has been collecting on and off since 2000 and has more than 1,000 items autographed. “They use their children, girlfriend, wife and sister.
“Pretty much everyone has done it at one point. I use my 10-year-old son to get signatures because he’s cute-looking.”
But even all that prepping isn’t a guarantee.
“It’s luck sometimes,” Pate said. “Right place, right time.”
Just ask the Riojas brothers, who walked away that Wednesday afternoon, once again, empty-handed.
WARNING SIGNS
The Express-News took an informal poll of autograph seekers to find out the NBA’s best and worst signers, as well as the top excuses for not forking over a signature:
FIVE BEST
1. Kevin Durant, Thunder
2. Dwight Howard, Magic
3. Manu Ginobili, Spurs
4. Shaquille O’Neal, Heat
5. Deron Williams, Jazz
FIVE WORST
Kevin Garnett, Celtics
LeBron James, Cavaliers
Vince Carter, Nets
Kobe Bryant, Lakers
Tim Duncan, Spurs
TOP LOP LINES/EXCUSES
“I’ll get you at the game/later.”
“I’m on the phone.” *
None (player ignores crowds completely).
“Nah, it’s going to end up on eBay.”
“I don’t do that.”
* —Player pretends to use cell phone away while passing through crowd