The Suns will make the NBA Finals

[LakerGod]

Now that my Lakers are on rebuilding mode and probably will not go far this season i will give my support to the Phoenix Suns but don't get me wrong I'm still a full time Laker fan in the good times and bad times,.


Back to the topic: the Suns are fun to watch and actually playing a little defense, last nights game was a great win for them beating the Defending Champion Detroit Pistons and did it with both defense and offense. (allowing 97 points is better than allowing 123)

This Suns team is not the same team the Spurs beat last January, back then they didn't have a bench and had only 9 players suited up to play against the spursies.

I don't expect manu Ginobili to score 48 points again, tha was more like a fluke, a once in a lifetime ocurrance, Ginobili averages something like 16 ppg.

I know you will probably say that you already beat them twice once early in the season and the second with Phoenix playing without a bench and Nash coming off fresh from an injury.

The real measuring stick between the two teams is going to be the third game, both teams with full lineups and 100% healthy.

My prediction:

Suns 108
Spursies 93

[usckk]

What ever... *rolling eyes*

[FromWayDowntown]

The real measuring stick between the two teams is going to be the third game, both teams with full lineups and 100% healthy.

And somehow, if the Spurs win that one, too, you'll find another measuring stick, right?

[LakerGod]

And somehow, if the Spurs win that one, too, you'll find another measuring stick, right?
They only play 3 times this year, To be honest with you I don't expect the spursies to win this one.

[BronxCowboy]

Are Laker God and wolves009 the same person pretending to be a fan of different rival teams? Do they compare notes? What's the deal?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I made a prediction in another thread a couple of months ago that it was only a matter of time before LakerGod and Medvedenko started to bandwagon another team.







It has begun.

[BigVee]

Some measuring stick with the Spurs traveling and on a back to back. Pick another team.

[LakerGod]

I made a prediction in another thread a couple of months ago that it was only a matter of time before LakerGod and Medvedenko started to bandwagon another team.









It has begun.
I'm not jumping off the Laker bandwagon, Laker fan for life here, I don't pretend to be Laker fan like that idiot Kaster.

I'm just being objective here, The Suns have a better chance of making the NBA Finals than the spurs.

[LakerGod]

Some measuring stick with the Spurs traveling and on a back to back. Pick another team.
Here we go!

Typical spurs fan excuse!

[waly.mg]

The refs don´t will call the Perimeter contacts in the Playoffs

In the Playoff the NBA can allow more contact as every year, and the Suns are going to fall early

[Jdspur20]

Now that my Lakers are on rebuilding mode and probably will not go far this season i will give my support to the Phoenix Suns but don't get me wrong I'm still a full time Laker fan in the good times and bad times,.


Back to the topic: the Suns are fun to watch and actually playing a little defense, last nights game was a great win for them beating the Defending Champion Detroit Pistons and did it with both defense and offense. (allowing 97 points is better than allowing 123)

This Suns team is not the same team the Spurs beat last January, back then they didn't have a bench and had only 9 players suited up to play against the spursies.

I don't expect manu Ginobili to score 48 points again, tha was more like a fluke, a once in a lifetime ocurrance, Ginobili averages something like 16 ppg.

I know you will probably say that you already beat them twice once early in the season and the second with Phoenix playing without a bench and Nash coming off fresh from an injury.

The real measuring stick between the two teams is going to be the third game, both teams with full lineups and 100% healthy.

My prediction:

Suns 108
Spursies 93

NBA forum please

[Medvedenko]

Why the hell would I bandwagon to another team...when the spurs lost Drob and they sucked beyond belief that season did you bail...did you hear the comments from other teams fans that year on how the spurs have no future and they are doomed....well that's what I hear today....it's funny the hypcocrisy is overwhelming. Now Lakergod is another story.....I support my team for good or bad...nothing wrong with that...I'm a fan of a lot of teams, so...I spend more time on this board than any other board...why because of the NBA interest.

[bigzak25]

LG, the lakers suck, i don't blame you for bandwagoning...http://www.sahoops.net/smilies/lmao.gif

[tekdragon]

Wasted Bandwith Forum

[Medvedenko]

Great comment BigZak....ass.

[bigzak25]

not directed at you slava.....hole.

[LakerGod]

LG, the lakers suck, i don't blame you for bandwagoning...http://www.sahoops.net/smilies/lmao.gif
Like I said I'm not jumping off the Laker bandwagon, all I've said was that I pick the Suns to win the West, but that doesn't mean that I'm a fan of them.

[Medvedenko]

Well, fine...but do all get my point...each team goes through BS and a rebuilding mode at some point, some rise and some fall...Laker God is just trying to bust your chops, nothing wrong with that, regardless on how pointless he makes it seem. I still think the Spurs are the team to beat.

[ALVAREZ6]

Stupid gay ass laker fans are useless...especially in a SPURS forum.

I don't mind Medvedenko, he's cool...but that bastard Lakergod....

[lotr1trekkie]

What is with the Suns-ophiles?

The Spurs are deeper all around and HAVE[and they don't] the Most Valuable Player in the West. Nash is terrific but he isn't worth Tim one for one.

The Suns are also playing at 99% of capacity while the Spurs are chugging along at 80-85%. Also Mohammed with give us more quickness than Rasho does. He wasn't there earlier.

Finally, as good as Nash is he has more trouble covering Parker than visa versa. The Suns really can't take Nash out because he can't stay with Tony and in any series that disparity will be magnified.

PS: The Lakers are rebuiding like Iraq is rebuilding--only Iraq will get there first.

[bigzak25]

Now that my Lakers are on rebuilding mode and probably will not go far this season i will give my support to the Phoenix Suns



picking them to come out of the west and 'giving your support' are two different things. thus...bandwagon. no shame. as said, don't blame ya.

just a note, we all know LG is here to rile the natives, you play along or you don't....

if your a spurs fan or laker fan that can't take the ribbing....out of kitchen. :smokin

[tekdragon]

not directed at you slava.....hole.

:lmao

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Maybe you missed the game earlier this year where the Spurs bent your Suns over and turned their overrated asses into smoking craters..........Phoenix got filled out like an application.

The Suns worry me about as much as the Lakers do- actually less because when Steve Nash breaks down in April like he does every year, they'll be struggling to beat the dogshit of the NBA- i.e. your Lakers.

Run along bitch, Vlade needs you to pick the garlic out of his backhair.

[BigVee]

Here we go!

Typical spurs fan excuse!

What do you call qualifying Spurs wins with shit about Nash coming back from injury and no bench? Sounds like an excuse to me.

[ALVAREZ6]

I don't expect manu Ginobili to score 48 points again, tha was more like a fluke, a once in a lifetime ocurrance, Ginobili averages something like 16 ppg.

He probably won't ever do this again because is is a Spur, and will stay a Spur for more years to come.

In case if you haven't noticed, the Spurs have plenty of scoring options.

Go figure out how many shots per game Manu takes, and that will explain everything.
If you let Manu shoot as many shots as Kobe, he could easily do it.

[SuperManu!!!]

It's nice to see lakergod so desperate that he is willing to stop cheering for his team. What's the matter you sissy? No more hopes on the rapist??? Realized that shaq was the heart of the team?

[Ishta]

Here we go!

Typical spurs fan excuse!


Go get a life....oopps.. sorry what's the Laker's excuse again? :lmao

[smeagol]

My prediction:

Suns 108
Spursies 93
Precisely what I was hoping for.

Everytime you and your retarded fuck-buddy, wolves009, predict something, you turn out being incorrect.

Therefore, I am now confident that the Spurs will beat the Suns for the third time this season.

For that matter, they will beat the lakers for the fourth time, too.





Run along, little child, someone is reading Cat in the Hat and you don't want to miss that part you enjoy so much . . .

[E20]

For some reason a lot of Laker fans around here are now abandoning the Lakers and switching to the Suns.

[E20]

Also, Spurs will win the NBA finals.

[SirChaz]

How do we get Laker Fans gravy-training the Suns bandwagon?

We don't deserve this. If you are going to be a Laker fan fine, but don't drag the Suns down with you.

Having Laker fans rooting for you is almost worse than only winning 29 games and having nobody care.

:pctoss

:makemyday

[Rummpd]

A 3 point win a home by Suns over an Eastern team = YAWN.

Wake me when LakerGod shows up with a real take.

[mikaela01]

oh really?

[The_Game]

A 3 point win a home by Suns over an Eastern team = YAWN.

Wake me when LakerGod shows up with a real take.

That eastern team won the title last year moron.

[Spurs_rock05]

Stupid gay ass laker fans are useless...especially in a SPURS forum.

I don't mind Medvedenko, he's cool...but that bastard Lakergod....
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[Man In Black]

Like I said I'm not jumping off the Laker bandwagon, all I've said was that I pick the Suns to win the West, but that doesn't mean that I'm a fan of them.

What the fuck-ever :rolleyes We ain't concerned with what you predict, you're as accurate as So Cal XTRA sports radioguy Vic The Prick Jacobs, and his Vic's lock...Lakers to win it all. You're both CLUELESS and blinded from actual reality. Take a step away from your keyboard and go to the store and get a box of Tim Duncan Wheaties...you need the vitamins and nutrients. I read your trash and think you must be suffering from some lack of food-induced stupidity. Get that box now,don't forget the milk...BEE-YATCH.
:hat

[Rummpd]

To the Game:

I know that but still do not fear the Pistons, they have gotten on one roll this year and are a good to great team but the Spurs with Duncan and now Parker and Ginobli playing at a high level would beat them in a series.

My so what was the Suns beat them at home, no big thing and it was not a decisive win.

Everyone is making the Suns out to be this 300 pound gorilla like their mascot. They are also a good to great team but in head to match ups vs. Spurs have proved sorely lacking.

They will try to bring it against Spurs again, but I expect another decisive Spurs win next meeting.

[td4mvp21]

^I dont think we can ever count out the Pistons. They are the defending champs and I would say we are the underdog in a series against them. One thing to remember is that defense in the playoffs compared to defense in the regular season is like night and day. Yeah , the Suns won and thats a big win for them because Detroit is a good team and has been playing well lately, but in the Finals, they arent gonna be getting those open looks, as will the Spurs. If the Spurs and Pistons play in the Finals, its gonna be ALL defense most of the time.

Another thing to remember is that the Suns are playing at their best right now and have been the whole season. We all know(as do the Spurs)that our full potential still hasnt been reached. We have alot to work on, but we can get it done. Nazr seems to be a good bench player with good rebounding and defense. I can't wait for him to start playing more. But if we have beaten all these teams NOT playing at our full potential, thats pretty darn good. And yes, LakerGod is right-Ginobili isnt gonna get 48 points next meeting. Tim will (lol jk). I think we will be more prepared next time to where we dont have to make it a shoot out like last time. The Suns are a very good team with great offense, but their lack of defense is really a problem. They may make it to the Finals, and thats great for their fans, but I don't think they will win it.

However, I think the last two games have been PERFECT for our team(cleveland, chicago)-we have had tests on the road and at home where we NEEDED to make a shot and we did. Also, Duncan has made literally two game winners(he gave us the lead for good in the Bulls game), and that is good for his confidence. The Cleveland game was a big road win. Hopefully these things will give us some momentum to lead us to 100% before the playoffs.

[GrandeDavid]

LakerGeek, you need to buckle down on that remedial GED program right about now, giving a little more effort toward improving your punctuation, spelling and overall syntax.

[SirChaz]

Like D'Antoni has said if the Suns don't make it to the finals or a championship it will be because they are not good enough, not because their style is flawed in some way.

The Suns have added some quality depth over the past month and a half and Hunter and Barbosa are playing very well at times. The problem remains the same as it was when the season started, lack of size up front.

The Suns only have one consistant scorer inside on the front line and have none coming off the bench. The Suns do have Q who is very good in the post against other guards though he does not play down there much now.

The other issue is when you have a PG as your main scorer/facilitator you rely on the refs to blow the whistle too much. It is the same as it was with KJ. He was great in the regular season (when healthy) but when the playoffs came he would try to take it to the basket but many times contact is not called. You have to have someone that can finish the play despite the contact.
This is why the Suns now have a chance with Stoudemire but I think he is still a little young to lead this team to a championship or probably even a championship round this season.

It has been a great year and the games have been really fun to watch. Looking forward to how far the Suns can go in the playoffs without too high of an expectation for this young team.

[td4mvp21]

^Being young is another major flaw of theirs. We saw that in the game we came back and won. They got too cocky and comfortable with their lead and they blew it. They may not be in the finals this year or next year, but I can see them in three years if they get some defense.

[Experiment2100]

Now that my Lakers are on rebuilding mode and probably will not go far this season i will give my support to the Phoenix Suns

Yes and noone has ever heard of a team making the playoffs while in a rebuilding year, wait someone once won a campionship while rebuilding, but who was it?

[td4mvp21]

^ :lol :lol :blah :spin :smokin

[Duff McCartney]

Like D'Antoni has said if the Suns don't make it to the finals or a championship it will be because they are not good enough, not because their style is flawed in some way.

Their style is flawed...you never saw the Mavs win a title did you?

[duncan2k5]

good point duff.

[boutons]

"their style is flawed in some way."

Their "style" is half-a-game, no defense.

Suns' unrelenting offense will bury you if your defense breaks down, as the Spurs and Pistons know. The Pistons defense failed last night in 4th as well as their offense. The Suns were ready, as they CONSISTENTLY are, and took the game.

[Experiment2100]

I don't know about that, the Spurs did let them drop 120+ in the last game they just let PHO's unrelenting offense run out and then beat them at their own game which was awesome at the time, but now pop has been putting brown at the PF a bit too much.

[boutons]

Spurs pummeld Suns @SBC with defense, and then stole one from Suns @PHX by outscoring Suns offense, quite a feat.

Spurs playing like last night ain't gonna get it done next Wed night.

Very worrying that Spurs will fly to PHX after the Nets game @SBC. Damn, 2nd game of B2B. Let's hope the Nets game is an early and durable blowout so the bench can take over. We don't want no sh!t like the starters playing 38+ minutes, all of the 4th quarter.

At least the Spurs pick up an hour by flying west.

I wonder if the Pistons screwed up in the 4th @PHX because they were tired from the B2B?

[exstatic]

Suns' unrelenting offense will bury you if your defense breaks down, as the Spurs and Pistons know.

The Spurs know this? How? Aren't we 2-0 against them?

Their style is flawed. Anyone who relinquishes a 17 pt lead to a rival on their own homecourt isn't championship material. They are the NBA version of the Run and Shoot offense: great when it's working, but as the Oilers can tell you, when it's not, you give back the lead, even a huge one. It just puts too much pressure on the defense, and if that isn't very good to begin with, you crack and fold.

[SirChaz]

Their style is flawed...you never saw the Mavs win a title did you?


The only thing the Suns have in common with the Mavs is Steve Nash.

THE SUNS ARE NOT THE MAVS.

[boutons]

"The Spurs know this?"

Of course, they do. Spurs defensive failures through 3 qtrs lets Suns get out front by 17. The Spurs absolutely know about the relentless power of the Suns offense.

Next Wed night, I doubt Manu will hit 1/3+, 48 pts of the Spurs pts, so the Spurs defense better play 48 minutes of pure shutdown.

"Anyone who relinquishes a 17 pt lead to a rival on their own homecourt isn't championship material"

WTF? The Spurs DID exactly that last night. :)

[SirChaz]

"their style is flawed in some way."

Their "style" is half-a-game, no defense.

Suns' unrelenting offense will bury you if your defense breaks down, as the Spurs and Pistons know. The Pistons defense failed last night in 4th as well as their offense. The Suns were ready, as they CONSISTENTLY are, and took the game.

There is no doubt that defense is a problem for the Suns but it is a problem for many young teams. The Suns are capable of playing some very good defense but consistancy is the issue.

The Suns have been adaquate on defense and great on offense much of the season. However a lack of defense is not a feature of their style, it is a reflection on thier players effort and execution.

The Suns don't have to be great on defense they really just need to find ways to be good enough. I don't think half court offense or defense will be a problem for the Suns in the playoffs. The problem will be to complete the defense by securing the defensive rebounds.

[SirChaz]

The Spurs know this? How? Aren't we 2-0 against them?

Their style is flawed. Anyone who relinquishes a 17 pt lead to a rival on their own homecourt isn't championship material. They are the NBA version of the Run and Shoot offense: great when it's working, but as the Oilers can tell you, when it's not, you give back the lead, even a huge one. It just puts too much pressure on the defense, and if that isn't very good to begin with, you crack and fold.


Do we really want the NBA to be the equivalent 3 yards and a cloud of dust?


I don't know about you but I am bored with the slowdown style. Basketball is a free flowing full court game when it is at it's best. That doesn't mean no defense that just means we don't have to walk the ball up and control the tempo every second.

[Duncanoypi]

and LakerGod jinx the Phoenix Suns...they may lose in semifinals...poor..tsk...tsk...

[Duff McCartney]

There is no doubt that defense is a problem for the Suns but it is a problem for many young teams.

I disagree....

Sincerely, The Baby Bulls...2004-2005.

[Matrix]

There is no doubt that defense is a problem for the Suns but it is a problem for many young teams. The Suns are capable of playing some very good defense but consistancy is the issue.

The Suns have been adaquate on defense and great on offense much of the season. However a lack of defense is not a feature of their style, it is a reflection on thier players effort and execution.

The Suns don't have to be great on defense they really just need to find ways to be good enough. I don't think half court offense or defense will be a problem for the Suns in the playoffs. The problem will be to complete the defense by securing the defensive rebounds.


Very nice posting throughout this thread Sirchaz.. Yes the spurs have beaten us twice, and we may even get swept, but everyone knows that just because you take the season series, it doesn't mean you automatically win the playoff series.. I think it will be interesting to see how the games will be called in the playoffs....But personally i think the only team that can beat the spurs are the spurs themselves this year. But I hope its a WCF between these two, and it goes 7, the game threads and vbookie would be awesome, for me that is...

[SirChaz]

I disagree....

Sincerely, The Baby Bulls...2004-2005.

I never said all young teams are bad defensively, I said many are.

Chandler and Curry are also have a year more in the league. Amare has already made great strides on defense this year (as well as offense). I expect he will be even better next year with his rate of development so far.

[Rummpd]

Remember in the last game vs. Suns Parker was ill and played like a dog yet Spurs still win.

Game one was more indicative of how he has abused Nash during the years.

That is why I am predicting another Spurs decisive win.

All you naysayers relax Suns = Dallas of a few years ago = stop the overconcern with this team. They are beatable period!

[LakerGod]

The spursies barely beat a hapless Raptors team and a young Bulls team at home, what makes you think they are going to beat the Suns next Wednesday on the road?

Remember the spursies are not good in the second game of back-to-backs...

The spursies are goingt to Phoenix this Wednesday just to bend over simple as that!

[stéphane]

The spursies barely beat a hapless Raptors team and a young Bulls team at home, what makes you think they are going to beat the Suns next Wednesday on the road?

Remember the spursies are not good in the second game of back-to-backs...

The spursies are goingt to Phoenix this Wednesday just to bend over simple as that!

Arguing on boards is like running in the special Olympics, even if you win, you still retarded...

[LakerGod]

Silence says it all!

[E20]

Spurs will win the NBA finals. BTW Lakers suck.

[LakerGod]

Well spurs fans look at the bright side at least when Phoenix buries you on Wednesday you will have an excuse "No Timmy Pumpkin". Oh and you can forget about gaining that number 1 seed you'll be lucky to win your division depending on how many games he misses.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Hey LakerGod, why don't you go break some commandment and leave us the fuck alone! What's the matter, can't cheer, so you sneer? Get a life dipshit. Hey I know, why don't you go help Kobe release some post-court tension, god knows he needs another bitch to rape now that his last one took his ass to court, I bet you'd fill in wonderfully. Besides, you're a Laker fan, you know all about BENDING OVER!

[Experiment2100]

Don't fall for his crap the "Silence Says It All" comment was just to bump this from the bottom he's just baiting cause his team ain't going anywhere. We all know who has the best shot at winning.

[cqsallie]

Silence says it all!
But, do you know what you might find more rewarding? Go to latimes.com, register and get involved with other Lakers' fans. I'm registered and will look for your convoluted posts. Will you have the nerve to call yourself LakerGod on this site? :rolleyes

[TDfan2007]

The spursies are goingt to Phoenix this Wednesday just to bend over simple as that!

Isn't it ironic that a Laker fan is talking about bending over? I forget, who took it up the ass from the Pistons last year in the finals? :rolleyes

[Kaster]

Isn't it ironic that a Laker fan is talking about bending over? I forget, who took it up the ass from the Pistons last year in the finals? :rolleyes

True, but why is a Spurs fans talking about taking it in the ass in the 04 Finals after the beating they took in the 04 WCSF? :spin

[Kaster]

Oh, and LakerGod, kill yourself.

[The_Game]

The Spurs know this? How? Aren't we 2-0 against them?

Their style is flawed. Anyone who relinquishes a 17 pt lead to a rival on their own homecourt isn't championship material. They are the NBA version of the Run and Shoot offense: great when it's working, but as the Oilers can tell you, when it's not, you give back the lead, even a huge one. It just puts too much pressure on the defense, and if that isn't very good to begin with, you crack and fold.

no championship team should blow a 10 point lead with under a minute to go left in a game either. But it happens...suns can play D when they need to and have done so this year.

[TDfan2007]

True, but why is a Spurs fans talking about taking it in the ass in the 04 Finals after the beating they took in the 04 WCSF? :spin

we were .4 seconds away from winning that series so i wouldn't say that the Spurs took a beating. The lakers were outclassed in just about every one of those 5 games against the Pistons, can't say the same about the Spurs - Lakers WCSF series.

[Hook Dem]

Lakerwad.....may the rain gods give you about 10 more inches causing you to fall off into the ocean and dragging your Fakers with you!

[boutons]

"noone has ever heard of a team making the playoffs while in a rebuilding year"

Pop considered the 02/03 Spurs to be in re-building mode (SJax, Manu, Kevin were new, Tony hadn't really turned the corner as PG, etc). He said the Spurs weren't "supposed" to win the 03 Title.

:lol :lol

[Supergirl]

The reason the Spurs are better than the Suns is because Parker is better than Nash. Nash can't stop Parker, and Parker and Bowen combined do an effective job on Nash.

The Amare/Duncan match up has become close to the KG/Duncan match up - the pretty much neutralize each other.

Suns don't have anyone who can defend as well as Bowen's little toe, for chrissakes.

Spurs have the edge. Esp in a 7 game series. However, I would not be surprised to see it be Spurs and SUns in the WCF, though I'm not sure the Suns are better than the Sonics. Sonics have more depth, esp at C.

[SirChaz]

The reason the Spurs are better than the Suns is because Parker is better than Nash. Nash can't stop Parker, and Parker and Bowen combined do an effective job on Nash.

The Amare/Duncan match up has become close to the KG/Duncan match up - the pretty much neutralize each other.

Suns don't have anyone who can defend as well as Bowen's little toe, for chrissakes.

Spurs have the edge. Esp in a 7 game series. However, I would not be surprised to see it be Spurs and SUns in the WCF, though I'm not sure the Suns are better than the Sonics. Sonics have more depth, esp at C.


I disagree, the advantage the Spurs have is their experience and depth. Although the depth factor is not what it once was.

I had to laugh when you cited Parker's advantage over Nash but yet you pointed out that both Parker and Bowen combined to guard him. Parker needs Bowen's help to guard Nash but then Nash had no help in the first game against Parker.

Parker went nuts in the first game because nobody stepped up to stop penetration into the lane. The Suns were overly concerned with Duncan and it was a layup drill for Parker. That did not happen in the second game. Parker was sick or whatever but the defense was much better position wise on Parker to start the game.

The Suns have some decent defenders in Marion and Johnson but they don't hold and handcheck as skillfully as Bowen. :spin

[Kaster]

we were .4 seconds away from winning that series so i wouldn't say that the Spurs took a beating. The lakers were outclassed in just about every one of those 5 games against the Pistons, can't say the same about the Spurs - Lakers WCSF series.

Spurs lost the series 4-2, Game 5 was the only one that was really close, and that also took a miracle Duncan shot for the 0.4 shot to even exist.

And I disagree about the Pistons series, Lakers outplayed the Pistons down the stretch and beat them handily in Game 2 OT. The rest of the series, sure, you're right about that, they were totally outplayed.


Lakerwad.....may the rain gods give you about 10 more inches causing you to fall off into the ocean and dragging your Fakers with you!

My god > your god.

[TheWriter]

Suns opps. avg 103 points.

Suns defense sucks harder than LakerGod's mom.

[boutons]

"Suns opps. avg 103 points."

Wiz opps. avg 102 ppg (at the time we played @WAS, Wiz were NBA 30th in points allowed), and Spurs' Tim-less offense couldn't score enough to win @Wiz.

[Charles Stunner]

I dont talk to much in here, but somebody needs to lock this badboy up.....like yesterday. Charlie would be more than happy to grab him by the neck and show em how we do it on the southside.

[Extra Stout]

For some reason a lot of Laker fans around here are now abandoning the Lakers and switching to the Suns.No, the Laker fans are still Laker fans.

It's the bandwagon untermenschen who are switching. Somewhere in LakerGod's closet is an old, faded MJ jersey.

[Rummpd]

He has been once and forever been named LakerFraud. Please do not refer to him in any other fashion.

[waly.mg]

Spurs 4 - Suns 1

Shick shick

[Jimcs50]

Spurs 4

Suns 3

[tekdragon]

SirChaz,

Props to you for bringing basketball discussion without resorting to flaming and baiting. It's nice to have intelligent fans of other teams here! Keep bringing that shit...

I'll tell you why I think the Spurs can take the Suns in a seven-game series: half-court execution. The Spurs are the best in the league at transition defense, and Phoenix relies heavily on easy buckets. Nash, of course, has the ability to create easy shots off the pick and roll, but the Spurs defensive system is designed to funnel the ball-handler into our shot-blockers...leaving opponents with no choice but to shoot jumpers. Phoenix definitely can shoot, and if they get hot they'll win a game or two (see how Seattle handled us earlier this year)...but not four out of seven. Live by the jumper, die by the jumper. It just takes too many things going right for a jump-shooting team to survive in the post-season. In the front 82, the Suns can kill teams by running and shooting from the outside, but, forced into the half-court, I just don't see them surviving against a team that's played half-court ball all year. The Spurs have had so many more opportunities to execute their half-court sets that in a high-pressure situation, they'll make fewer mistakes. Combine that with a philosophy that allows no mistakes on the defensive end (especially when it comes to transition D), and you've gotta give the edge to the Spurs. It'll be a really entertaining series, because no one can stop Phoenix for seven straight games, but the Spurs can beat you either way: run with you like we did last game, or ugly the game up, historically a Spurs specialty. Phoenix just doesn't grind out ugly games the way San Antonio does. And in the playoffs, games definitely get ugly.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'll tell you why I think the Spurs can take the Suns in a seven-game series: half-court execution. The Spurs are the best in the league at transition defense, and Phoenix relies heavily on easy buckets. Nash, of course, has the ability to create easy shots off the pick and roll, but the Spurs defensive system is designed to funnel the ball-handler into our shot-blockers...leaving opponents with no choice but to shoot jumpers. Phoenix definitely can shoot, and if they get hot they'll win a game or two (see how Seattle handled us earlier this year)...but not four out of seven. Live by the jumper, die by the jumper. It just takes too many things going right for a jump-shooting team to survive in the post-season. In the front 82, the Suns can kill teams by running and shooting from the outside, but, forced into the half-court, I just don't see them surviving against a team that's played half-court ball all year. The Spurs have had so many more opportunities to execute their half-court sets that in a high-pressure situation, they'll make fewer mistakes. Combine that with a philosophy that allows no mistakes on the defensive end (especially when it comes to transition D), and you've gotta give the edge to the Spurs. It'll be a really entertaining series, because no one can stop Phoenix for seven straight games, but the Spurs can beat you either way: run with you like we did last game, or ugly the game up, historically a Spurs specialty. Phoenix just doesn't grind out ugly games the way San Antonio does. And in the playoffs, games definitely get ugly.

I couldn't agree more. It's exactly what happened in the 2003 WCF. Certainly, the Mavericks were harmed by not having Dirk healthy, but even when Dirk was healthy, the Spurs were able to keep the Mavericks scores fairly low by forcing them to play in the half-court. That forced change in style didn't match what Dallas had seen in the regular season and when they had to play in the half-court, their vaunted offense was far less potent.

I think the last Spurs/Suns game proved, in a microcosm, the live by the jump shot, die by the jump shot reality. Phoenix built its lead with uncanny shooting, but when the Spurs pushed back, the Suns went stone cold and gave the Spurs an opportunity to steal the game. If you rely on jump shots and penetration in transition, and believe that you can get by on "just enough defense," the playoffs tend to provide a rude awakening.

If they meet, it will be an interesting clash of styles.

[mookie2001]

i remember in recent year the dallas mavericks using the same kind of tactics the suns do, with many more scorers and VERY similar point guard, however it never amounted to much.

[td4mvp21]

^they were good and the Suns are very good too, but because of Detroit's suffocating defense, and Miami's inside defense(dont know about their perimeter defense) I find it unlikely they win it because when their offense is shut down, they arent gonna have the defense to stop the other team. Thats the only flaw i find with it really.

[SirChaz]

^they were good and the Suns are very good too, but because of Detroit's suffocating defense, and Miami's inside defense(dont know about their perimeter defense) I find it unlikely they win it because when their offense is shut down, they arent gonna have the defense to stop the other team. Thats the only flaw i find with it really.

That assumes teams can shut down their offense for 4 games. The defense is not as bad as everyone thinks. The 103 ppg is a little misleading because other teams get more opportunities because the Suns often score quickly.

The Suns have to be one of the toughest teams (if not the toughest) in the league to guard when they are playing well. Many of thier diffiencies have been hidden by the transistion baskets and 3pt shooting. While those things will be reduced in the playoffs they will not go away completely. They also have an inside presense and a very potent half court attack although the execution suffers at times.

They other thing about the Suns is they are still growing. They have a decent bench lately and overall the team is improving. It is hard to say where they(or any other team) will be in a month.

To start the season I would have been happy with a playoff apperance and at the outside the division title. Nobody thought they would be 46-14 so I will not say a finals apperance or a title can't happen but based on recent history I would agree that they are not the favorites.

[td4mvp21]

^Yeah maybe not this year but in a couple of years when they are not so young and when they get more defense they will be a big threat.

[Extra Stout]

That assumes teams can shut down their offense for 4 games. The defense is not as bad as everyone thinks. The 103 ppg is a little misleading because other teams get more opportunities because the Suns often score quickly.The Suns are a middle-of-the-road defensive team. They don't suck at it. The Sonics do.


The Suns have to be one of the toughest teams (if not the toughest) in the league to guard when they are playing well. Many of thier diffiencies have been hidden by the transistion baskets and 3pt shooting. While those things will be reduced in the playoffs they will not go away completely. They also have an inside presense and a very potent half court attack although the execution suffers at times.One key difference you will see in the postseason is that teams will work much harder to get back in transition against the Suns. Fast breaks off made baskets will not happen like they do now. The Suns are not bad in the halfcourt, but like you said, the execution is suspect, and they don't have the defense to carry them if they're forced to play halfcourt and the shots aren't falling.

Their defense is good enough only if the offense is working OK. They don't have a Michael Cooper or a Kareem.


They other thing about the Suns is they are still growing. They have a decent bench lately and overall the team is improving. It is hard to say where they(or any other team) will be in a month.

To start the season I would have been happy with a playoff apperance and at the outside the division title. Nobody thought they would be 46-14 so I will not say a finals apperance or a title can't happen but based on recent history I would agree that they are not the favorites.I think the Suns will take a couple of years to get over the hump, like most teams.

[SirChaz]

Can't disagree much with the last two posts.

I guess we will all find out soon enough.


Should be a good game tonight.

[tempe85]

The Suns defense is grossly underrated. People base the Suns defense off of Points Allowed Per game which is hardly a measuring stick for defensive prowess. There are a lot of factors that go into how good a defense is. Lazy people might think the Suns defense is the worst in the league, however if you actually look into the stats you will see they are more towards the middle if not above the middle of the pack.

One of the better such measuring sticks for defense is Points Allowed Per 100 possessions. This fairly ranks defenses because it factors in the speed of the teams offense. Why is it fair to the Suns defense when they have to defend 8 more opposing possessions per game than the Hornets? It's true that the Hornets give up only 95 PPG (ranking them 8th in the league) and the Suns give up 103 (ranking last). However the Suns allow the same Points Per 100 possessions as the Hornets (think of it this way... giving weight to Points Allowed per game is essentially the same as say Rebounds Per Game... the Suns rank 5th in the league in total rebounds per game while the Spurs rank 9th... but no one in their right mind will argue the Suns are a better rebounding team than the Spurs... it's the same logic... there are other factors at work here).

Here is a list of teams that allow the same or more Points Per 100 possessions as the Suns:
Hawks
Charlotte
Warriors
Lakers
Bucks
Timberwolves
Hornets
Knicks
Trailblazers
Kings
Supersonics
Raptors
Jazz
Wizards

Meanwhile the Magic, Clippers, and Celtics average a measly 1 point per 100 possessions less than the Suns.

Essentially the Suns rank 15th in the league in Points allowed per 100 possessions (and are 1 point away from 11th) which is hardly as bad as some people make their defense seem to be. Think about this stat however, only one team in the league other than the Suns score 110 or more points per 100 possessions, which is the Miami heat at 111. The Suns average 115, which is head and shoulders above the rest. One thing people don't realize is that the Suns offense is part of their defense. They allow teams to do certain things, that other teams don't, to maximize their fast breaks and total points. The Suns could play stiffer defense, by say playing Hunter at center, but their team isn't nearly as good with him on the court.

The Suns eFG% allowed is also better than a lot of people might think. (eFG% adjusts FG% with 3Pt shooting).
The Suns have a better eFG% allowed than the following teams:

Hawks
Celtics
Bobcats
Nuggets
Warriors
Clippers
Bucks
Nets
Hornets
Knicks
Sixers
Blazers
Kings
Sonics
Raptors
Jazz
Wizards

There are another 5 teams that are 0.4% better than the Suns in eFG% allowed (which is almost negligible):
Pacers .004 better
Mavericks .004 better
T-Wolves .002 better
Cavilers .002 better
Lakers .002 better

This means that the Suns are a mere .004 off of having the 7th best rated defense in eFG% allowed. Not too shabby. Also only 2 teams other than the Suns in the league have an eFG% on offense above 50%. The Suns eFG% is 53.5%, which ranks number one in the league. Again part of the Suns defense is their offense.

When I say the Suns defense is their offense you have to think way back to the early 90's to understand why this works. To compare the Suns to a team today is ridiculous (and don't even begin to mention the Mavericks of the past couple seasons who haven't even come close to the matching this Suns offense this season.. I mean the Suns average over 5 PPG than even the best Maverick team which was in 2002). In the early 90's teams scored a lot more points and also gave up quite a bit too. There is a tradeoff. You see it's impossible for the Suns to give up say 95 PPG (like the lowly Hornets do) and still score 110.8 PPG (which would probably rank as the greatest point differential of all time). But are you going to pretend that if the Suns players magically turned into the Hornets while on defense they'd have the greatest team of all time (which it would essentially be with a 15.8 point differential)? No way, they'd actually probably give up more than their current 103 points allowed per game. To really get a grasp on the Suns defense you have to find comparable teams to them, which would mean finding a team that has averaged close to or the same points per game as the Suns. You have to go back to 1993 to find even two teams that score more points per game than the Suns do today.

Since the 1993 season only two teams have scored more PPG than the Phoenix Suns do today. Those teams are:

1993 Phoenix Suns at 113.4 PPG
1995 Orlando Magic at 110.9 PPG

Oddly enough both the Magic and Suns made it to the NBA finals in their respective years.

And for comparison:
2004 Phoenix Suns at 110.8 PPG


Now for the important part: How many points did both these team ALLOW per game?

1995 Orlando gave up 103.8 PPG
1993 Phoenix gave up 106.7 PPG.

For comparison:
2004 Phoenix Suns at 103 PPG

Amazing! How could those teams have possibly made it to the NBA finals? According to P Allowed PG they SUCK at defense. Heck they're worse than '04 Phoenix, and '93 Phoenix is A LOT worse. Actually neither '93 Phoenix nor '95 Orlando was actually that bad on defense, and neither is '04 Phoenix.

Sadly most of what I've had to say will go in one ear and out the other for most people. You'll go on believing that the Suns defense is terrible and because of this they have no shot at the title. You'll go on believing that Points Allowed Per game is the end all of defensive measuring sticks, as do most people that watch the NBA. However what you believe is faulty logic based off of mundane statistics. This Suns team is for real, whether you like it or not.

[tekdragon]

Interesting post, except that you're essentially comparing the Suns to:

Hawks
Charlotte
Warriors
Lakers
Bucks
Timberwolves
Hornets
Knicks
Trailblazers
Kings
Supersonics
Raptors
Jazz
Wizards

in one category, and:

Hawks
Celtics
Bobcats
Nuggets
Warriors
Clippers
Bucks
Nets
Hornets
Knicks
Sixers
Blazers
Kings
Sonics
Raptors
Jazz
Wizards

in another.

Not the greatest measuring stick. What is the combined record of the above teams?

Isn't that a bit like saying you're better statistically than the Arizona Cardinals? Who isn't?

[tempe85]

Interesting post, except that you're essentially comparing the Suns to:

Hawks
Charlotte
Warriors
Lakers
Bucks
Timberwolves
Hornets
Knicks
Trailblazers
Kings
Supersonics
Raptors
Jazz
Wizards

in one category, and:

Hawks
Celtics
Bobcats
Nuggets
Warriors
Clippers
Bucks
Nets
Hornets
Knicks
Sixers
Blazers
Kings
Sonics
Raptors
Jazz
Wizards

in another.

Not the greatest measuring stick. What is the combined record of the above teams?

Isn't that a bit like saying you're better statistically than the Arizona Cardinals? Who isn't?

Well for one thing the Super Sonics are below the Suns in both categories. While the Kings, Wolves, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and Wizards are in at least one of the two. Hardly crappy teams.

However the most important aspect of this post was to show how the Suns defense stacks up against the rest of the league. In this case their defense is actually better than average even by today's standards. But then again, as I stressed throughout the post, even these statistics don't tell the WHOLE story. To get a better understanding at how good the Suns are you have to compare them to teams of the past that put up comparable statistics. Why this should apply is because the Suns style of today is like no other seen for a decade, in this case the Suns are more comparable to the '93 Suns and the '95 Magic. Hardly the Arizona Cardinals if I don't mind saying so.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't disagree that you could find statistics to prove the Suns to be a better-than-thought defensive team. I can understand the urge to compare the Suns to teams of other eras. And I don't dispute that the Suns have a fine basketball team -- I, for one, will be surprised if they aren't around come the WCF.

But, I also think that you can't take a team from this era, look to statistical trends from another era, and extrapolate in an effort to define that team. The Suns might have fared very well in past eras -- they might even be among the best teams ever (on paper, at least) had they played in another era. But they don't. They play in an era where, year after year, the proven trend has been that defense overcomes offense come playoff time. The last 6 years are close to conclusive proof of that proposition. The offensive juggernauts of the NBA's recent history -- while certainly some ppg short of the Suns' current averages -- have made some runs into the playoffs, only to be shut down (for the most part) by the dominant defensive teams -- the teams that allow low PPG and low FG% against. You can couch it in any number of examples: the most obvious to those around here is the 2002-03 Mavericks, whose offensive efficiency number was best in the NBA (108.1 pts/100 poss.) and whose defensive efficiency number was a respectable 9th (96.6). But when push came to shove at playoff time, the Mavericks pure points per game average fell to 96.3 in the WCF, while the offensively-pedestrian Spurs raised theirs to 101.3 and won 4-2.

I'm not trying to say that Phoenix is without a chance; it's just that until they prove that the paradigm can be shifted, it's understandable that some would discount their real chances to win the title. I don't honestly think that tonight's game will have any real bearing on that issue, but it may create some drama as a backdrop to the Suns' effort to prove that great offense and okay defense can outlast good offense and great defense.

[tempe85]

I don't disagree that you could find statistics to prove the Suns to be a better-than-thought defensive team. I can understand the urge to compare the Suns to teams of other eras. And I don't dispute that the Suns have a fine basketball team -- I, for one, will be surprised if they aren't around come the WCF.

But, I also think that you can't take a team from this era, look to statistical trends from another era, and extrapolate in an effort to define that team. The Suns might have fared very well in past eras -- they might even be among the best teams ever (on paper, at least) had they played in another era. But they don't. They play in an era where, year after year, the proven trend has been that defense overcomes offense come playoff time. The last 6 years are close to conclusive proof of that proposition. The offensive juggernauts of the NBA's recent history -- while certainly some ppg short of the Suns' current averages -- have made some runs into the playoffs, only to be shut down (for the most part) by the dominant defensive teams -- the teams that allow low PPG and low FG% against. You can couch it in any number of examples: the most obvious to those around here is the 2002-03 Mavericks, whose offensive efficiency number was best in the NBA (108.1 pts/100 poss.) and whose defensive efficiency number was a respectable 9th (96.6). But when push came to shove at playoff time, the Mavericks pure points per game average fell to 96.3 in the WCF, while the offensively-pedestrian Spurs raised theirs to 101.3 and won 4-2.

I'm not trying to say that Phoenix is without a chance; it's just that until they prove that the paradigm can be shifted, it's understandable that some would discount their real chances to win the title. I don't honestly think that tonight's game will have any real bearing on that issue, but it may create some drama as a backdrop to the Suns' effort to prove that great offense and okay defense can outlast good offense and great defense.

One thing people don't realize is that the Suns points scored differential compared to the second best team in the league in PPG is the largest in NBA history. (Dallas in #2 in PPG at 102.5PPG while the Suns are at 110.8PPG which is a differential of +8.3... the largest differential in NBA history). This is one of the reasons I feel compelled to at least see what teams did in the past that are more comparible to the Suns, because today there really isn't any comparison to how good the Suns really are. (yes the 2002 Mavs are the closest in recent memory... but they are not nearly as close as you would think... and for one the Mavs lost in 6 games in the WCF... which hardly means they were incapable of going all the way).

It's also not exactly true to say that in this ERA offense doesn't win championships. I did a statistical analysis a little while back of every team that had won the NBA championship since 1970. Here is what I found. 17 teams had a better league ranking in defense than offense, 16 teams had a better league ranking in offense than defense, and 2 teams had the same ranking in both offense and defense. Eight teams were ranked #1 (and five were ranked second) in the league in offense and seven had the #1 defense (2 teams had the second ranked defense) (only one had both #1's... the Bulls in one of their Jordan years). Get this however... 8 teams that won the NBA championship since 1970 had the #1-3 ranked offenses while having a defense ranked #9 or below in the league (one team even had a defense ranked 15th... which was quite recent). Here was essentially my conclusion to the analysis: you need either a great offense to win the championship or you need a great defense, however one does not reighn overly supreme over the other. True last year a team with a subpar offseason won the Championship (worst of any offense in the past 35 years that won the NBA championship) but as a whole, history tells us that either extreme can be the case in winning.

Here's what's so interesting about the Suns however. Their offense, as I mentioned before, doesn't just rank #1 in the league, it ranks #1 by the largest margin in the history of the league. What does this tell us? Well for one it could say that the Suns defense isn't quite as important as teams have needed in the past. I still don't even know what to make of it... the Suns are unlike any team I've ever seen (when comparing them to other teams of the same ERA).

[tempe85]

I'm not saying the Suns are going to win the championship however. In most years, Yes, that's what I would say. However.... this years Spurs are probably one of the best teams I've seen in the past... I don't know... a VERY long time (perhaps that Bulls team that ranked #1 in both offense and defense were the last team I've seen that really challenge this years Spurs). The fact is you have two teams that are on another level of the competition in the same season: the Suns and Spurs. Two teams that are very different but are both VERY good. I am confident in saying that the Suns and Spurs will face each other in the Western Conference Finals. Who will win? Your guess is only as good as mine.

[tekdragon]

Who would've thought that a thread started by TakeYourWad would turn into actual basketball conversation. Good job, Suns fans!

[FromWayDowntown]

Who would've thought that a thread started by TakeYourWad would turn into actual basketball conversation. Good job, Suns fans!

No doubt. Props to tempe85 and sirchaz for bringing a good, solid take from an opposing camp. It gets a bit old listening to the canned b.s. from clowns like wolves009seed and lakerfraud.

[milkyway21]

this is incredible! this is amazing.

LakerGod would just say Spurs Sucks or won't make it to the Finals and HE GETS 100 POSTS, overall

LakerGod, are you doing this to other forums as well? Getting fans of your greatest nemesis pumped up? :eyebrows How about Sacramento when they became a big threat to your fav team 2 yrs ago? I bet.

Great :flipoff

[LakerGod]

this is incredible! this is amazing.

LakerGod would just say Spurs Sucks or won't make it to the Finals and HE GETS 100 POSTS, overall

LakerGod, are you doing this to other forums as well? Getting fans of your greatest nemesis pumped up? :eyebrows How about Sacramento when they became a big threat to your fav team 2 yrs ago? I bet.

Great :flipoff
This thread deserves to go to the top...

Keep posting!

[Slo spurs fan]

LJ kick this MF in the ass while you are still in charge!!!
BANN THIS TROLL!!!