Spurs could get John Salmons or Brad Miller via Horry.

[wijayas]

From www.sacbee.com. Sorry if this has been posted before.


According to a source close to the Spurs, San Antonio has interest in Salmons or Miller and the only way of landing one of them may be by way of the man who so many Kings fans despise. Horry the Kings-killer is not playing and has shown no signs of coming out of retirement, but he may be the only way San Antonio can land Salmons or Miller. The Spurs, according to the source, are considering which player helps them more and trying to figure out what it would take to bring one of them on board. The big three of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker are obviously untouchable, and there aren't a whole lot of intriguing or attractive players or contracts beyond that.

Enter Horry, who would re-sign with San Antonio for this season only in a deal worth (insert necessary $ figure here) and then be traded. He would then be waived by the Kings while chuckling on his way out the door with a huge check in hand, with the Kings also possibly taking back Michael Finley (expiring deal worth $2.5 million) and getting out from underneath a contract (Salmons or Miller) they no longer see as part of the big picture plan. Because Horry played last season, I believe it's within the post-retirement timeframe that this sort of deal would still be allowed by the league. The part where this likely falls apart - if it's ever discussed at all - is the Kings wanting more.

San Antonio doesn't have a first-round pick this year, although they could give up second-round picks for 2009 and/or a future first-rounder. Now because Salmons' deal is worth $5.4 next year (with a player option for 2010-11 worth $5.8) and Miller's expires next year at $12.2 million, it is obviously easier to get to Salmons' number (or within the collective bargaining agreement-mandated 125 percent). The Spurs are just one a number of teams looking at the Kings' roster and pondering the possibilities, but the context and history surrounding this one would make this move far more comical than the rest. - Sam Amick

[alamo50]

I'll take one order of Salmon please.

[Capt Bringdown]

I think the Spurs have loyalty to Finley and he won't be part of any trade package - just a gut feeling. Interesting scenario, but it sounds far-fetched.

[wijayas]

I think the Spurs have loyalty to Finley and he won't be part of any trade package - just a gut feeling. Interesting scenario, but it sounds far-fetched.

Miller's salary is out of our (Spurs) league...:lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

I think the Spurs have loyalty to Finley and he won't be part of any trade package - just a gut feeling. Interesting scenario, but it sounds far-fetched.

what loyalty are you talkin about? we got him his ring....NEXT!

[CubanMustGo]

It's not Miller time.

[2Cleva]

What was Horry's last salary when a Spur?

[Admidave50]

Salmons is shooting well this year (47,6%FG, 41.9%3FG)!

Salmons for Finley would be nice

[Darkwaters]

What was Horry's last salary when a Spur?

I think he was around 3.5M

[Texas_Ranger]

What was Horry's last salary when a Spur?

$3,630,000

[Spurs Brazil]

1 - I don't think the Spurs will give up the 2010 plan for Salmons

2 - I think Bruno or timvp know this better but if the Spurs decide to sign and trade Horry they'll be over the tax

[benefactor]

Link to story. (http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/019383.html)

Salmons would be a nice replacement for Finley but I don't see Fin approving getting moved. Miller makes too much money. This could be a little like the situation with Carter, where they are just throwing our name out there to drum up more interest before the deadline.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Therr is NO way the Spurs trade for Miller's salary.

[benefactor]

1 - I don't think the Spurs will give up the 2010 plan for Salmons

2 - I think Bruno or timvp know this better but if the Spurs decide to sign and trade Horry they'll be over the tax
I don't see how bringing in Salmons would hurt the 2010 plan. Chances of us bringing in a big free agent are slim and I would be more than happy with acquiring Salmons plus perhaps signing Rasheed Wallace to finish out the Duncan Era.

[JPB]

Miller would obvioulsy be nice but his $12M makes it very difficult without losing valuable pieces.
Brad would fit pretty well. Good rebounder, passer, can occasionnaly shoot the 3.
Not a great shot blocker yet.

Oh wait, he's a 0,800 FT shooter. Can't make it.

[SenorSpur]

Salmons is shooting well this year (47,6%FG, 41.9%3FG)!

Salmons for Finley would be nice

:tu

The way I see it is the Spurs already have to go after another swingman this offseason, anyway. Either via draft or free agency.

That said, I'd gladly swap out Salmons for Finley. He's younger, a better defender and all-around player at this point his career. Adding Salmons and with the accelerated development of Hairston, along with the emerging Roger Mason, Jr. would strengthen the Spurs backcourt immeasurably for the next several years.

The question is whether Pop would allow his man-crush on Finley to get in the way of such a potential acquisition.

I like using the Horry trade chip. Sort of like what the Mavs did with Keith Van Horn in the Devin Harris/Jason Kidd trade a year ago. The difference is Van Horn hadn't played in about 3 years. That chip should give the Spurs added flexibility to help make some kind of move before the trade deadline.

[JPB]

Link to story. (http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/019383.html)

Salmons would be a nice replacement for Finley but I don't see Fin approving getting moved. Miller makes too much money. This could be a little like the situation with Carter, where they are just throwing our name out there to drum up more interest before the deadline.

:tu
Funny to see Spurs name appearing more and more as the deadline approaches.

[urunobili]

The question is whether Pop would allow his man-crush on Finley to get in the way of such a potential acquisition.

:depressed

[JPB]

Salmons is shooting well this year (47,6%FG, 41.9%3FG)!

Salmons for Finley would be nice

Don't know on the short term. 3 months to learn the system...
Fin knows it by heart and is having a decent to good year so far.

[InK]

Dont really care much for Salmons, and as said Miller is to expensive for what he offers.

[Darkwaters]

Don't know on the short term. 3 months to learn the system...
Fin knows it by heart and is having a decent to good year so far.

Salmons has a pretty high BBIQ. It might work out.

[SenorSpur]

Even if the Spurs don't get either of these guys, the good news is that the Spurs will have use of this "little known" Horry sign-n-trade chip. IMO, having this as an option in any potential trade scenario virtually assures that some kind of deal will get done before the deadline.

[EricB]

This sounds pretty plausible actually. Sounds like the reporter overheard something there..

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I hope it's Salmons so the idea I get to bump my Salmons thread from December :lol

[spurs50_]

How about this Mensa bonsu (?) guy? The Toros play the RGV Vipers and the coach here says that Mensa Bonsu is the best player in the NBDL. I like his size, but have never seen him play.

[Universe]

Only way they can get Miller is through a buyout and I don't think the Kings would do that.

[Darkwaters]

How about this Mensa bonsu (?) guy? The Toros play the RGV Vipers and the coach here says that Mensa Bonsu is the best player in the NBDL. I like his size, but have never seen him play.

He used to be a Mav. Ask some of the Mavs fans out here. I heard he had potential...but perhaps not as much as some thought.

[xtremesteven33]

Sounds like too much information to just make up. This has some truth to it I would think.

Parker/Hill
Ginobili/Mason
Bowen/Salmons
Duncan/Bonner
Oberto/Thomas


thats pretty deep

[texbound]

I think the Spurs have loyalty to Finley and he won't be part of any trade package - just a gut feeling. Interesting scenario, but it sounds far-fetched.

The Spurs don't have to be loyal at all; however, Finley would have to agree to forfeit his bird rights at the end of the contract and accept this trade (I think) and I seriously doubt he would approve a trade to Sactown. Obviously, Finley is not going to get a huge contract anymore, but this is level of power that Finley has.

[silk]

If finley won't, are the spurs willing to include bowen for salmons ?

i'd rather have bowen i confess

But this salmons thing seems legit, spurs usually do straight the opposite of what I think, i would have thought of a defensive big, they get a scoring sg....

[silk]

too many trades thread, the spurs will win the championship this year without any trades


i know it, i have a good source, don't ask the link

[SenorSpur]

I don't see it happening. Plus I believe with the whole jason Kidd thing last year a player came out of retirement only to be traded and then waived by the Nets to make the numbers work. I think they changed that rule to where a player must be with the team 90 days (or something like that) before he is traded. That is why we can't trade malik right now.

It was Keith Van Horn, who the Mavs used in a similar sign-n-trade scenario, to make the J-Kidd trade work.

[The Truth #6]

Spurs trades aren't usually leaked which makes me think there could still be a third option being considered that the media does not know of yet.

[SPURS21]

Parker/Hill
Ginobili/Mason
Bowen/Salmons
Duncan/Bonner
Oberto/Thomas


If we were able to acquire Salmons for Finley I think at that point you have to package RMJ with some combo of Oberto, Udoka and picks for a legit big man. Salmons for Finley does not put us over the top. Gives us more depth at spots we are already deep.

[scanry]

Who do the Spurs think they are pulling this kind of illegal trade... the Lakers?

Is Kobe's dick big enough for you? :rolleyes If not you can always get a piece of Shaqfu.

Not every thing revolves around the Fakers.

[EricB]

Who do the Spurs think they are pulling this kind of illegal trade... the Lakers?

:lol

Well played.

[InRareForm]

salmons is the kind of player that is only real good when he starts, his numbers go way down coming off the bench.

[Darkwaters]

salmons is the kind of player that is only real good when he starts, his numbers go way down coming off the bench.

Ok. You realize if we trade Finley for Salmons then we'll probably start Salmons. We swap one starter for another.

[Slinkyman]

Miller is a upgrade over bonner, not saying much but he is better then bonner

[wildbill2u]

From www.sacbee.com (http://www.sacbee.com). Sorry if this has been posted before.


According to a source close to the Spurs, San Antonio has interest in Salmons or Miller and the only way of landing one of them may be by way of the man who so many Kings fans despise. Horry the Kings-killer is not playing and has shown no signs of coming out of retirement, but he may be the only way San Antonio can land Salmons or Miller. The Spurs, according to the source, are considering which player helps them more and trying to figure out what it would take to bring one of them on board. The big three of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker are obviously untouchable, and there aren't a whole lot of intriguing or attractive players or contracts beyond that.

Enter Horry, who would re-sign with San Antonio for this season only in a deal worth (insert necessary $ figure here) and then be traded. He would then be waived by the Kings while chuckling on his way out the door with a huge check in hand, with the Kings also possibly taking back Michael Finley (expiring deal worth $2.5 million) and getting out from underneath a contract (Salmons or Miller) they no longer see as part of the big picture plan. Because Horry played last season, I believe it's within the post-retirement timeframe that this sort of deal would still be allowed by the league. The part where this likely falls apart - if it's ever discussed at all - is the Kings wanting more.

San Antonio doesn't have a first-round pick this year, although they could give up second-round picks for 2009 and/or a future first-rounder. Now because Salmons' deal is worth $5.4 next year (with a player option for 2010-11 worth $5.8) and Miller's expires next year at $12.2 million, it is obviously easier to get to Salmons' number (or within the collective bargaining agreement-mandated 125 percent). The Spurs are just one a number of teams looking at the Kings' roster and pondering the possibilities, but the context and history surrounding this one would make this move far more comical than the rest. - Sam Amickd

Salmosns is 6'6" so he's not the big man we're looking for although he'd be better than Udoka or possibly Finley.

[bigdog]

Miller is a good player but his best days are behind him, his contract isn't friendly to the Spurs, and he smokes marijuana lol. We need a big, but we don't need Miller.

Now, I would love to get Salmons and have him start at the SF position if it included getting rid of Udoka instead of Finley. Finley is still a fairly important part of this team, as Udoka is nothing but a brick-shooting benchwarmer these days. Salmons, in my opinion, is a very good player. Obviously, we need a big man more, so get a big man, then I'd be fine with getting Salmons.

[HarlemHeat37]

I would love to get Salmons as well..he helps our scoring AND our perimeter D at the same time, which is a huge asset to have..

as for Miller, no thanks..he doesn't address a need..he's soft, doesn't rebound or defend well..he's arguably the best big man passer in the NBA, but that doesn't help us much right now..

I still believe there will be a trade though, like I said in the other thread..we're working on something..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Finley has a no trade clause in his contract I believe.

So it would be up to him to decide if he does or doesn't wanna go to the Kings.

I doubt he would.

[layupdrill]

A bit of a reach

[Ditty]

salmons for horry and get rasheed

[RedsLakers24]

Salmons defends Kobe good, i think its a good trade for the spurs, cause Miller fits perfect with Duncan, and Salmons is a pretty good defender and offensive player

[timvp]

Brad Miller would actually fit pretty darn well. He can play out on the perimeter and wouldn't get it Duncan's way. He's also a very good passer, plus he can rebound well. He doesn't block shots but at least he's big and somewhat physical.

Salmons could be good but usually he shines only when he starts, plays big minutes and is a number one or number two option. That wouldn't happen in San Antonio so he's a little bit of a risk.

[Kori Ellis]

Though most people in this thread are concentrating on Salmons. I believe this moreso for Miller.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I agree, I would look more towards getting Miller than Salmons. Just as long as he doesn't try to braid his hair again.

[YODA]

Though most people in this thread are concentrating on Salmons. I believe this moreso for Miller.

Took me a few min to figure this one out. I was like like," Kori says Moreso for Miller. Who the hell is moreso?" Yoda freaking out.:lmao

[EricB]

Brad Miller would actually fit pretty darn well. He can play out on the perimeter and wouldn't get it Duncan's way. He's also a very good passer, plus he can rebound well. He doesn't block shots but at least he's big and somewhat physical.

Salmons could be good but usually he shines only when he starts, plays big minutes and is a number one or number two option. That wouldn't happen in San Antonio so he's a little bit of a risk.


Miller would serve the purpose of being a tall physical big that can guard Bynum in the POs, and can help out on the boards. He's also a long 7 footer who can help Duncan disrupt shots.

This is probobly the best they are gonna do this year bigman wise, so they oughtta go after it.

[xtremesteven33]

Eh i dont really want Miller.

[Tully365]

How do the Spurs take on Miller's 11+ mil salary without going far into luxury tax this year and next? Between Tim, Tony, Manu, and Miller, the total salary would be 53+ mil. That leaves about 17 mil for the 11 other players before going into the luxury tax. The only way I can see it happening at the moment is something like Salmons and Miller for Manu and other parts. Now, don't get too agitated... I'm not recommending that trade... just saying it makes the numbers work.

[vander]

I don't really see why Sac would want to dump Salmons, he seems quite worth his contract to me. Miller I can see them wanting to dump

[vander]

per 48 minutes, Bonner's Numbers are actually quite comparable to Miller's, why would we pay 4x the money and give up other players for a slight upgrade there?

Not worth it, not even close,

Salmons on the other hand... no, he would be replacing Bowen and Finley mostly, and I don't see the Spurs doing that, especially with the beloved Bowen.

[Chris]

Salmons/Beno for Horry/Vaughan/random pick

[jcrod]

Miller is Oberto, but better shooter and rebounder. I'll take him, if we could make it work.

[timvp]

I don't really see why Sac would want to dump Salmons, he seems quite worth his contract to me. Miller I can see them wanting to dumpSalmons is a classic sell high. He's not as good as he's looked this season so cashing out on him makes a whole lot of sense for the Kings.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Get Miller. It would work!

[DPG21920]

I would much rather have Salmons. Many of us on here have been calling this for a while. He provides us another all around scorer, he is an able defender. He only makes the MLE and he has a player option for the 2010 year, which means he can opt out if he is unhappy and if he works, he is cheap.

[Chris]

Salmons is a classic sell high. He's not as good as he's looked this season so cashing out on him makes a whole lot of sense for the Kings.

I think he's plenty good, he's just never got much playing time. If you look at his career numbers they are on par with what he is doing now ratio wise. He is also young and fills that athletic forward position we're looking for. Oh yeah he can also rebound.

[vander]

I think he's plenty good, he's just never got much playing time. If you look at his career numbers they are on par with what he is doing now ratio wise. He is also young and fills that athletic forward position we're looking for. Oh yeah he can also rebound.

:lol only a Spurs fan would call 29 young

[TheSpursFNRule]

Miller would serve the purpose of being a tall physical big that can guard Bynum in the POs, and can help out on the boards. He's also a long 7 footer who can help Duncan disrupt shots.

This is probobly the best they are gonna do this year bigman wise, so they oughtta go after it.

I agree, this is the best they can do this year for a big man and this what they need MOST. Do not forget that. They can sign a wing man over the summer, the big man cannot wait if we wanna make a run for a championship!

MILLER TIME!:flag:

[Chris]

:lol only a Spurs fan would call 29 young

Compared to some of the guys we got now he's rookie fresh.

[objective]

I don't see a deal with Sacramento as likely, but this story is pretty good for shining a light on how the Spurs can make other trades work by using Horry.

Signing Horry makes it easier to make salaries match other deals, and with the benefit of expiring after this season.

With the Kings, Miller makes too much money with tax implications, as has been pointed out. It's a shame though, he's better than the usual stiffs that are in the Spurs feasible price range this time of year. He misses way too many games though.

[ace3g]

Duncan with a follow putback AND1

[Russ]

Has anyone mentioned that Spurs orginally drafted Salmons in 2002? (Actually, they drafted him for Larry Brown and the Sixers and got one year of Speedy Claxton in return -- albeit a championship year.)

[loveforthegame]

Miller would be a good fit here. He's not a shot blocker but he's a good rebounder, big body in the post, and can step out and hit the long jumper.

He's the likely target instead of Salmons.

I just don't see Finley signing off on a trade though. Especially to a team with no championship hopes.

[crc21209]

Hmmm well Miller is a 7 foot big body we could use, on the other hand we could use Salmons as well, dude is averaging 18 points per game on 47% shooting and 41% from three!

Another note I just found on ESPN'S news and notes when you click on the names of the players: An MRI on Miller revealed a strained left hip flexor and he will miss the next three games, the Sacramento Bee reports.
Miller, who had been diagnosed with an abdominal strain, has missed the last three games. He will be re-evaluated next week, but you can be sure the Kings will rest him through the All-Star break in hopes of having him healthy by the time the Feb. 19 trade deadline hits.

Wonder if this will complicate things now....

[024]

i saw this again on hoopshype and i began thinking that it might be possible to get salmons. miller's contract is completely out of the realm of possibility but salmon's contract is reasonable. horry's $3.6 million + udoka's $1 million is enough to get him. if the kings just want expiring contracts and a second rounder to make room for kevin martin, salmons would be a great addition. he's a good defender and has developed offensively this year. obviously the spurs want a bigman but salmons would be a huge upgrade over finley/udoka. the wing position is pretty crowded but an upgrade is an upgrade. $5 million hardly interferes with the 2010 plan and right how it seems that he's well worth his contract ever since he pulled a turkoglu. in 2010, he will only be 30-31, still in his prime.

[TheSpursFNRule]

i saw this again on hoopshype and i began thinking that it might be possible to get salmons. miller's contract is completely out of the realm of possibility but salmon's contract is reasonable. horry's $3.6 million + udoka's $1 million is enough to get him. if the kings just want expiring contracts and a second rounder to make room for kevin martin, salmons would be a great addition. salmons is a good defender and has developed offensively this year. obviously the spurs want a bigman but salmons would be a huge upgrade over finley/udoka. the wing position is pretty crowded but an upgrade is an upgrade. $5 million hardly interferes with the 2010 plan and right how it seems that salmons is well worth his contract ever since he pulled a turkoglu. in 2010, he will only be 30-31, still in his prime.

if the front office is getting as creative as it seems throwing Horry into the mix, and also with the rumor of them chasing Vince Carter I do not think that Brad Miller is completely out of realm. He would be a good fit, a big who can spread the floor and give them what they need MOST right now. We don't need other wing man, Kendrick Perkins killed Matt Bonner today. I see this team going after Miller. Its Miller FN TIME! And I tried out trades on ESPNs Trade Machine and there are several ways to get Miller(who does not fit into Sacramentos future plans)

[TheSpursFNRule]

Miller would serve the purpose of being a tall physical big that can guard Bynum in the POs, and can help out on the boards. He's also a long 7 footer who can help Duncan disrupt shots.

This is probobly the best they are gonna do this year bigman wise, so they oughtta go after it.

:whine

[Chieflion]

No idea, there are plenty of cheap physical/athletic centers around.

[Manufan909]

I like Miller, but damn, I wish he was at least a competent shotblocker. I'd almost rather have Rasho, if he wasn't so damn expensive.

[Chieflion]

This is getting a little ridiculous. Spurs interested in Rasheed, Carter and now Salmons and Miller.

[Manufan909]

This is getting a little ridiculous. Spurs rumored to have interest in Rasheed, Carter and now Salmons and Miller.

fixed

[Chieflion]

fixed

Ok, boss.

[wildbill2u]

No idea, there are plenty of cheap physical/athletic centers around.

Where is Vlady Divac when you need him?

[Chieflion]

Where is Vlade "I flop" Divac when you need him?

Fixed.

[mountainballer]

Salmons is a classic sell high. He's not as good as he's looked this season so cashing out on him makes a whole lot of sense for the Kings.

agree in general, but on the other hand I didn't read about any "high" offers. it doesn't look as if the Kings can get back a high 1st round pick, so it will likely just be a salary dump move. Spurs will still have to offer something (1st rounder 2011? multible 2nd rounders? rights for Splitter? Gist?), Kings will for sure also ask for Hill, who could be a very nice compliment to Martin.
however, again agree, that he isn't the 18+PPG player, but he's a very good all around player in typical Spurs mold, who would be a nice upgrade over Fin on offense and a huge upgrade over him on defense.
about the price: I wonder why the Kings didn't pull the trigger on the reported Thunder offer (Smith), I can't see that the Thunder didn't include something like the Spurs 1st round pick in the package. so the Kings either want a better pick, or a better (young) player in return.
overall I would like the move a lot, even if a big man would be more important. but maybe there is a long term strategy to now significantly upgrade the wing (because the available bigs are not good enough) and 2009 try to get Sheed for the MLE. a 2009-2012 squad with Salmons and Sheed would look fantastic.

[Josepatches_]

Though most people in this thread are concentrating on Salmons. I believe this moreso for Miller.

Agree.
I don't think Pop wants Salmons right now.We have a pretty good backcourt this year.Finley for Salmons? Even I sure Pop will put Finley before Salmons.

Everybody was talking about add another big so I can't understand why people here thinks on Salmons.

[cool hand]

Agree.
I don't think Pop wants Salmons right now.We have a pretty good backcourt this year.Finley for Salmons? Even I sure Pop will put Finley before Salmons.

Everybody was talking about add another big so I can't understand why people here thinks on Salmons.


didn't we draft salmons.

[EricB]

didn't we draft salmons.


Yes, traded him for Speedy Claxton in 2002.

[Biggems]

if we are able to use Horry in some trade, I would prefer it be one where we get another big....one who gives us a defensive presence down low.....a solid rebounder who blocks or alters lots of shots.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That'd be sick for Duncan if they got Sheed or Miller. Sheed is unrealistic IMO but he's one of the best 1 on 1 post defenders in the league and would allow Duncan to regulate the weak side and focus on help D.

[Biggems]

i wish when we traded Rasho to Toronto, that we could have included Beno and another filler for Bonner, Charlie V, and whoever else we got.

I mean right after we traded Rasho to them, they traded Charlie V for TJ Ford.

I also wish that we would have drafted Marc Gasol instead of Marcus Williams.....by doing this, we would have had insurance in case Splitter didnt want to sign. With Gasol being a 2nd rounder, we could give him a better deal than had he been a 1st round pick. Also, it would have prevented the Lakers from drafting him and then shipping his rights to Memphis for Pau. The Lakers would have had to give up perhaps Odom to get Gasol....and they would look a bit differently today.

Plus, we wouldnt have traded away a 1st round pick to get Kurt Thomas....and Barry would possibly still be on our team.

C - Villanueva, Gasol
PF - Duncan, Bonner, Fab
SF - Finley, Bowen, Udoka
SG - Mason, Manu, Barry
PG - Parker, Hill, Vaughn

[PDXSpursFan]

Miller = Bonner

Salmons please.

[crc21209]

I found another tidbit today:

Among the Thunder players who could be traded are forwards Chris Wilcox and Joe Smith, who both have expiring contracts, and guards Earl Watson and Damien Wilkins.

Sacramento forward John Salmons, who the Thunder reportedly recently sought to acquire in a trade for Smith, continues to hear his name in trade rumors. According to a report in the Sacramento Bee, the Thunder recently offered Smith for Salmons. The Bee reports Salmons has also attracted interest from San Antonio.

When asked about the possibility of playing for the Thunder, Salmons said, “That’s not official yet. Rumors are rumors. If it happens then I’ll have a thought on it. But it hasn’t gone down yet so I’m still a Sacramento King.”

http://newsok.com/scott-brooks-non-committal-on-possible-player-movement/article/3344357?custom_click=lead_story_title

[crc21209]

Anyone up for Smith or Wilcox from the Thunder?

[Bartleby]

Anyone up for Smith or Wilcox from the Thunder?

Either, but preferably Wilcox, as long as it doesn't cost much from the Spurs roster and/or future picks.

[urunobili]

Either, but preferably Wilcox, as long as it doesn't cost much from the Spurs roster and/or future picks.

Haslem>>>>>>>>Wilcox

Bonner>>>>>>>>Smith

[TheSpursFNRule]

How does Miller=Bonner? Miller is a better shooter, a two-time all star, a bigger and better defender....the list goes on....so stop.

[Manufan909]

Haslem>>>>>>>>Wilcox

Bonner>>>>>>>>Smith

But for the purpose of this arguement, Wilcox>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fab+Ian+Tiago(i'm going off of production this year)

Would Haslem even be a reasonable possibility?

[EricB]

i wish when we traded Rasho to Toronto, that we could have included Beno and another filler for Bonner, Charlie V, and whoever else we got.

I mean right after we traded Rasho to them, they traded Charlie V for TJ Ford.

I also wish that we would have drafted Marc Gasol instead of Marcus Williams.....by doing this, we would have had insurance in case Splitter didnt want to sign. With Gasol being a 2nd rounder, we could give him a better deal than had he been a 1st round pick. Also, it would have prevented the Lakers from drafting him and then shipping his rights to Memphis for Pau. The Lakers would have had to give up perhaps Odom to get Gasol....and they would look a bit differently today.

Plus, we wouldnt have traded away a 1st round pick to get Kurt Thomas....and Barry would possibly still be on our team.

C - Villanueva, Gasol
PF - Duncan, Bonner, Fab
SF - Finley, Bowen, Udoka
SG - Mason, Manu, Barry
PG - Parker, Hill, Vaughn


That would've been fine had the Raptors wanted Beno.

Beno's trade value was worse than what the Spurs got for him.

He was absolutely worthless.

[EricB]

Anyone up for Smith or Wilcox from the Thunder?


Wilcox is lazy and stupid, Joe Smith just sucks.

So no to either please.

[EricB]

How does Miller=Bonner? Miller is a better shooter, a two-time all star, a bigger and better defender....the list goes on....so stop.


Not a better shooter no.

But bigger better defender and former all star yes.

Former all star means jack squat now though.

[baseline bum]

if the front office is getting as creative as it seems throwing Horry into the mix, and also with the rumor of them chasing Vince Carter I do not think that Brad Miller is completely out of realm. He would be a good fit, a big who can spread the floor and give them what they need MOST right now. We don't need other wing man, Kendrick Perkins killed Matt Bonner today. I see this team going after Miller. Its Miller FN TIME! And I tried out trades on ESPNs Trade Machine and there are several ways to get Miller(who does not fit into Sacramentos future plans)

I don't think anything but Salmons could happen. I'm pretty sure Rob's salary for the trade would be limited to 105% of what he made last year. I don't see how the Spurs make up the difference in salary in a Carter or Miller trade.

[EricB]

The only way they could get Miller is if they traded Horry, Finley and maybe Oberto, I don't know if the salaries match. MAYBE MAYBE, if the Kings get rid of Salmons they might take Udoka.

Wich IMO would be perfect. If you could take Horry's salary, Udoka wich is like 2 million and maybe Finley and or Oberto or whatever, it might work.

Don't know, too lazy to run it through the trade machine, because more than likely bupkus will happen.

[dastrey]

I don't see Miller making the Spurs that much better. He isn't a great defender; we don't need low post scoring; and isn't much of a better shooter than Bonner or Kurt. Salmons on the other hand would instantly make the Spurs the favorites. We would no longer have to hope that Finley brings his A game. Salmons would bring another slasher into the starting lineup. The rumors are probably too good to be true.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I don't see Miller making the Spurs that much better. He isn't a great defender; we don't need low post scoring; and isn't much of a better shooter than Bonner or Kurt. Salmons on the other hand would instantly make the Spurs the favorites. We would no longer have to hope that Finley brings his A game. Salmons would bring another slasher into the starting lineup. The rumors are probably too good to be true.

Miller can be a a good defender when motivated....which would happen under Popovich.

[EricB]

I don't see Miller making the Spurs that much better. He isn't a great defender; we don't need low post scoring; and isn't much of a better shooter than Bonner or Kurt. Salmons on the other hand would instantly make the Spurs the favorites. We would no longer have to hope that Finley brings his A game. Salmons would bring another slasher into the starting lineup. The rumors are probably too good to be true.


Salmons is only looking good like TIMVP said, because hes getting big minutes.


Brad Miller is a better rebounder than Bonner, not as good a shooter, but brings more to the table and more what the Spurs need, than Bonner or Kurt.

Miller would be in the Thomas mold, but a bigger body and a bit better shooter.

[DAF86]

I don't see the Spurs trading for Miller he's too expensive for us. But I have a question:

Is it possible that a team (let's say Larry Brown's Bobcats) trade for Salmons and Miller just to get the former and let the last one go so that the Spurs can sign him for the vet. min. or something a little bit less expensive than his current contract?

[EricB]

I don't see the Spurs trading for Miller he's too expensive for us. But I have a question:

Is it possible that a team (let's say Larry Brown's Bobcats) trade for Salmons and Miller just to get the former and let the last one go so that the Spurs can sign him for the vet. min. or something a little bit less expensive than his current contract?

It is possible, but doubtfull.

[PDXSpursFan]

Horry, Udoka & Bonner for Camby - let's do it.

[024]

i still think trading for salmons will be good for the spurs as long as the kings don't want a young talent (george hill) or a first rounder. giving them rights to one of the spurs' draft stashes will be acceptable. expiring contracts of horry + udoka + rights to a spurs player and/or a 2nd rounder would be great.

spurs will have another body to throw on bryant who can also make bryant work on defense. bryant won't have to work defensively against the spurs if they constantly play bowen and finley. putting salmons in the starting lineup would also allow oberto or thomas to start because the spurs won't be needing bonner's offense so badly. this would shore up interior defense without compromising offense as the spurs did last year.

[Josepatches_]

Really We don't need Salmons.If we need to add another player then we need to add a center.We are not going to improve a lot with Salmons.No minutes for everybody.

Parker/Hill
Mason/Manu/Finley

I'm sure we have the best backcourt of the league.The big problem of the roster is the frontcourt.

Salmons could be right now better than Finley but I'm not sure if he could be more important to our team than Finley.If we need a big shot in the playoffs I would like to have Finley instead Salmons.
Finley is older but he could score 10-15ppg if he plays in Sacramento.He was averaging 10ppg in the Spurs with very good FG% in the beggining of the season without Tony and Manu.there aren't shots for everybody.We don't need another scorer from the outside.


Salmons is listed at Forward but he's smaller than Finley and he's not a better defensive player than Bowen.He can't help with rebounds a lot either.He's 29 so he's not very young either.

Of course I think he's a very good player.
If we can get Salmons for Horry it would be pretty good but if we have to send Finleys,Obertos...etc then I don't like it so much.

[EricB]

Horry, Udoka & Bonner for Camby - let's do it.


Bonner isn't going anywhere, so forget about it.

The Spurs like having a bigman that can spread the floor.

[PDXSpursFan]

IMO, any trade that doesn't involve our big 3 and brings a high-quality / 7-foot center is welcome (eg Camby, Kaman). So yes, Bonner, Mason & Hill are tradeables. (but I don't consider Miller high quality).

[EricB]

IMO, any trade that doesn't involve our big 3 and brings a high-quality / 7-foot center is welcome (eg Camby, Kaman). So yes, Bonner, Mason & Hill are tradeables.


Hill and Mason aren't going anywhere, and I wouldn't trade them for Marcus Camby or Chris Kaman.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This is just some guy playing with names.

1. Miller would not help us. We need an athletic big who can protect the rim and rebound - Miller is a poor defender at best, the opposite of athletic, and overpaid. Not happening.

2. I really like Salmons, but he complains if he doesn't get pt and shots and you think that would sit well here? No sirree. He'd definitely be an upgrade over Finley, but he doesn't know the system and his contract goes past 2010. Once again, unlikely.

[EricB]

This is just some guy playing with names.

1. Miller would not help us. We need an athletic big who can protect the rim and rebound - Miller is a poor defender at best, the opposite of athletic, and overpaid. Not happening.

2. I really like Salmons, but he complains if he doesn't get pt and shots and you think that would sit well here? No sirree. He'd definitely be an upgrade over Finley, but he doesn't know the system and his contract goes past 2010. Once again, unlikely.


Hes not out there.

Therefore you go to the next best available option, wich is Brad Miller.

[ss1986v2]

2. I really like Salmons, but he complains if he doesn't get pt and shots and you think that would sit well here? No sirree. He'd definitely be an upgrade over Finley, but he doesn't know the system and his contract goes past 2010. Once again, unlikely.

his past attitude issues are the biggest concern with salmons. but i doubt he would be on the books comes 2010. he has an ETO on his last year, and you would have to figure if hes playing at a decent level, hes going to use it.

[EricB]

his past attitude issues are the biggest concern with salmons. but i doubt he would be on the books comes 2010. he has an ETO on his last year, and you would have to figure if hes playing at a decent level, hes going to use it.

Maybe, and if he does, more than likely he wouldn't be worth what he would want in return.

[angelbelow]

hmmmm.. i dunno brad could help... he does spread the floor albeit not to 3 point range. hes a great passer. his D is questionable but hes an upgrade over any one not named duncan without being a liability.

[ss1986v2]

Maybe, and if he does, more than likely he wouldn't be worth what he would want in return.

well, that final year is only for about 5.8 mil. so even if all he could get was a multi-year MLE deal, he would still opt out.

[EricB]

well, that final year is only for about 5.8 mil. so even if all he could get was a multi-year MLE deal, he would still opt out.


Yeah. He would want a raise and I don't think he's worth more than 6 million a year.

[EricB]

hmmmm.. i dunno brad could help... he does spread the floor albeit not to 3 point range. hes a great passer. his D is questionable but hes an upgrade over any one not named duncan without being a liability.


Rebounding and defense next to Duncan, your sure as hell bet he's the best they would have outside Kurt Thomas.

[TheSpursFNRule]

there would be no reason to get Salmons when we have Finley, especially with Popovich's concerns about needing another bigman and his man crush on Finley its safe to say that with this rumor the spurs are trying for Miller not for Salmons.

[coachmac87]

Your a fool if you think Salmons would be a better fit. Salmons is an overrated player, he is going to look for a pay day down the road. And we are not going to give it to him. It just does not make sense. The market is better down the road anyways.

Miller on the other hand is almost done is most likely out of SA once his contract ends. Which I think is around 2010????? But he is a very smart player and is a great passer. Can shoot and help on the boards.

His defense is def not his forte but I would take my chances him guarding KG than Bonner or etc. He would add alot of depth and our bigs will be looking quite nice for the short term.

[Thompson]

Bonner isn't going anywhere, so forget about it.

The Spurs like having a bigman that can spread the floor.

Not even for Rasheed Wallace? Bonner, Oberto, maybe a 2nd rounder along with Horry (Detroit sees him walk for nothing at the end of the year, so we might be able to get him relatively cheaply).

I'm curious, would the Spurs be better with Bonner, who is fairly well acclimated to the system, or with Rasheed who'd have to learn it in a couple months?

I'm sure Detroit would welcome Horry with open arms. :lol

Of course it would be even better for only Oberto, Horry and filler, but I don't know if the Spurs could afford that (or if Detroit would even consider it).

[EricB]

Not even for Rasheed Wallace? Bonner, Oberto, maybe a 2nd rounder along with Horry (Detroit sees him walk for nothing at the end of the year, so we might be able to get him relatively cheaply).

I'm curious, would the Spurs be better with Bonner, who is fairly well acclimated to the system, or with Rasheed who'd have to learn it in a couple months?

I'm sure Detroit would welcome Horry with open arms. :lol

Of course it would be even better for only Oberto, Horry and filler, but I don't know if the Spurs could afford that (or if Detroit would even consider it).


Bonner for Wallace? Yes

Bonner for anyone else? Doubtfull.

They might, and then go out and sign Anthony Tolliver back.

[ss1986v2]

im not a brad miller fan. but i agree with what most people are saying here. spurs need some help next to tim. and if miller is the only option, so be it.

id just prefer it not be him. hes rather immobile. at his best, he was a good enough defender. now hes just big body in the post, but so is bonner, and we see how much that helps. hes not really a shot blocking presence, and hes only an adequate rebound (still better than what we have though).

millers saving grace is that i think his offensive game fits rather well next to duncan. miller thrives in the high post and he has a reliable jumper. so i think we could play off duncan very well.

[HarlemHeat37]

I've been shitting on Brad Miller for a while, and I won't change my stance..he doesn't help..

yes, offensively, he's a great compliment to Tim..he's arguably the best passing big man in the NBA, he has a good shot from the top of the key..but what's the point? our offense isn't the problem..Bonner spreads the floor, and we already have good ball movement..

his rebounding % is worse than Kurt's, and worse than Fab's from last season..his blocking % is MUCH worse than Kurt's, and on par with Bonner's..his offensive rebound % is worse than Bonner's..

he's an improvement over Bonner, but not by much..Brad Miller isn't scaring anybody..he's a good player though, so if we can actually acquire him with our assets, there's no reason to believe we couldn't acquire a different big man with our assets..somebody worse, but fits our needs..

I'd honestly rather get a young guy like Sean Williams or Josh Boone instead of Miller, since we'd be giving up a lot less..

[underdawg]

Getting a good big is nearly impossible (Stern does not want to see the Spurs in the finals again, so stop with the "Gasol trade happened" analogy.) Salmons makes us better and right now seems to be the best option available. Would you rather trade whatever minor pieces we have for Salmons or for a scrub big?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Hes not out there.

Therefore you go to the next best available option, wich is Brad Miller.

No, you stand pat. You never trade just for the hell of it, especially when your system takes so long for players to learn, and the guy you are talking about is not what the team needs, and has an $11 million salary.

This is not fantasy basketball.


Rebounding and defense next to Duncan, your sure as hell bet he's the best they would have outside Kurt Thomas.

Since when is Brad Miller even a decent rebound and defender? He does both somewhere between poorly and terribly. Miller's strengths are his passing and the range on his jump shot, that's it. Analogising Miller to Thomas on the defensive end is a grave insult to KT.

Fab is a far better defender than Miller, and about the same as a rebounder.

[Spurs Brazil]

M.Stein

Salmons is the Sacramento player generating the most interest.

The Mavericks and Kings have been exchanging proposals involving the 29-year-old for some time. Portland and Oklahoma City also are frequently linked with Salmons.

San Antonio, meanwhile, is in the hunt as well, pursuing Salmons -- with an offer of Bruce Bowen and Ime Udoka -- as a far more affordable trade target for its perimeter rotation than Vince Carter. New Jersey's Carter has tempted the small-market Spurs for days but can be absorbed by them only in a hugely expensive and complicated deal.

The Mavericks have been offering Jerry Stackhouse's virtual expiring contract ($7 million this season, only $2 million guaranteed next season) and Brandon Bass ($826,000) to the Kings since this past summer, when Sacramento was shopping Ron Artest. The biggest obstacle for Dallas on a Salmons deal has been the Kings' insistence that the Mavericks -- lacking draft picks to sweeten the deal -- also take back guard Beno Udrih, who has four years and nearly $27 million remaining on his contract after this season.

There is another complication for interested parties: Sources revealed Tuesday that Salmons has a 15 percent trade kicker in his contract that would require the team that acquires him to pay him a bonus of nearly $2 million and add that figure to its payroll. Salmons otherwise would rank as one of the league's better bargains, earning just $5.1 million this season while averaging 18.3 points and shooting 47.2 percent from the field and 41.8 percent on 3-pointers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=TradeTalk-090218

[Mr. Body]

LOLZ. Kings already trying to get rid of Beno's contract.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think the crux of Stein's note is that Salmons is more expensive than originally thought and that a team that is skating at the tax threshold will probably be disinclined to deal for him and that trade kicker.

Even assuming that the Spurs could throw enough back at the Kings to make the kicker a non-issue, I'd think that such a deal would categorically spell the end for any chance that Bowen would be a release-and-resign player, since the Spurs would have to add on Bowen's minimum deal and would almost certainly go over the threshold.

[coyotes_geek]

I've also got to wonder how long Stern is going to turn a blind eye to these trade-cut-return scenarios. Sure would suck for the Spurs to trade Bowen and then have Stern deny the Spurs from re-signing him 30 days later because he thought it was all pre-arranged.

[crc21209]

Spurs gotta do this deal...hes younger than VC, cheaper. And Salmons is a waaaaaaaaay better upgrade than Fin at this point.

[crc21209]

Bowen has to come back though for sure.

[Mr. Body]

Spurs gotta do this deal...hes younger than VC, cheaper. And Salmons is a waaaaaaaaay better upgrade than Fin at this point.

Objectively, though, Vince Carter is about 4X the player Salmons is.

[crc21209]

Yeah but his contract is waaay too expensive for the Spurs even two years from now...plus VC would cost us Hill and Mason probably...getting Salmons, will not.

[FromWayDowntown]

The odd thing about the Salmons/Carter decision is that Salmons would likely cost the Spurs a tax payment while Carter would not.

Frankly, the fact McDonald noted the Spurs reluctance to re-up Horry to include him in a trade package specifically because of the tax consequences that would go with it tells me that Salmons won't happen unless other pieces are added to make the Spurs send-out big enough to offset the trade kicker.

[crc21209]

Didnt see this tidbit posted:

The Kings likewise have talked with Chicago about a still-developing swap that would net Andres Nocioni and Drew Gooden's $7.2 million expiring contract for Miller and swingman John Salmons.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=TradeTalk-090218

[timvp]

Bowen, Udoka (or Vaughn or Horry) for Salmons. Bowen agrees to get bought out for less than the amount on his contract, while Salmons agrees to drop the trade kicker.

Sounds fair . . .




P.S.

Oh and toss in a pick or prospect if the bidding for Salmons elevates.

[EricB]

Eh, Salmons is a let down IMO.

I'd rather get the big man...

[timvp]

Eh, Salmons is a let down IMO.

I'd rather get the big man...Depending on Manu's situation, a big man would make no difference.

[roycrikside]

Depending on Manu's situation, a big man would make no difference.

LJ, check your PMs please.

[EricB]

Depending on Manu's situation, a big man would make no difference.

A trade for a Salmons depending on Manu's situation would make no difference either.

I think you assessment on Salmons was correct, he was the beneficiary of alot of shots on the worst team in the western conference while Kevin Martin has missed the year.

I don't think a trade for Salmons solves anything IMO.

Now if Ginobili comes BACK, THEN, yes, a trade for a John Salmons improves your team's chances exponentially, but, from the tone of everything surrounding Ginobili, I think hes done for the year, and I think a trade for Salmons would be a waste of time.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Manu's done for the year? WTF? when did this happen? The last thing I heard was that he had a sore ankle... now he's done for the year?

[EricB]

Manu's done for the year? WTF? when did this happen? The last thing I heard was that he had a sore ankle... now he's done for the year?


Its just the vibe I'm getting from the whole situation.

Nothing to back it up.

I don't like the way they are being overly secretive of his injury and I don't like how I've seen certain people react to it.

[Spurs Brazil]

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports


The Sacramento Kings are still determined to trade center Brad Miller, but it looks more likely they’ll part with efficient and cost-effective scorer John Salmons before the deadline on Thursday.

The Kings would like the Knicks to include Nate Robinson with the expiring contract of Malik Rose, but an Eastern Conference executive said Tuesday, “[Mike] D’Antoni does not want to move Robinson.”

Miller is attractive to the Knicks because the final $12.2 million season left on his contract comes off the cap before the free-agent summer of 2010.

Sources say the Dallas Mavericks have offered Jerry Stackhouse for Salmons, and the San Antonio Spurs are willing to part with Bruce Bowen and Ime Ukoda for him. Both Stackhouse and Bowen have partial guarantees for next season – $2 million each – that are cost prohibitive to Sacramento. League executives say the Kings are looking for a straight expiring deal for Salmons.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ak8glKAjV.gEAIgLJxu6WgK8vLYF?slug=aw-tradebuzz021709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[EricB]

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports


The Sacramento Kings are still determined to trade center Brad Miller, but it looks more likely they’ll part with efficient and cost-effective scorer John Salmons before the deadline on Thursday.

The Kings would like the Knicks to include Nate Robinson with the expiring contract of Malik Rose, but an Eastern Conference executive said Tuesday, “[Mike] D’Antoni does not want to move Robinson.”

Miller is attractive to the Knicks because the final $12.2 million season left on his contract comes off the cap before the free-agent summer of 2010.

Sources say the Dallas Mavericks have offered Jerry Stackhouse for Salmons, and the San Antonio Spurs are willing to part with Bruce Bowen and Ime Ukoda for him. Both Stackhouse and Bowen have partial guarantees for next season – $2 million each – that are cost prohibitive to Sacramento. League executives say the Kings are looking for a straight expiring deal for Salmons.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ak8glKAjV.gEAIgLJxu6WgK8vLYF?slug=aw-tradebuzz021709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Udoka and Bowen, Bowen is bought out?

Where do I sign?

[tav1]

Trade kicker. Not that simple (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/). But I'd still take it.

I prefer this to the Carter deal.

[lurker23]

Just for the fun of it, anyone think something like this would have any legs whatsoever?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkpwnt

(With Horry resigned at $4.2 instead of trading Thomas.)

I realize this is a lot of guys for Sac to take back, but they get both contracts off their books, ~$6.5 mil in expiring contracts, Oberto's non-guaranteed deal for next year, and can buy out Bowen.

[EricB]

Trade kicker could possibly be waved.

[crc21209]

Eric Bishop, live on Chris Duel right now. lol.

[coyotes_geek]

Just for the fun of it, anyone think something like this would have any legs whatsoever?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkpwnt

(With Horry resigned at $4.2 instead of trading Thomas.)

I realize this is a lot of guys for Sac to take back, but they get both contracts off their books, ~$6.5 mil in expiring contracts, Oberto's non-guaranteed deal for next year, and can buy out Bowen.

Actually I think the Kings would rather look for a team like Chicago. Perhaps work a Miller+Salmons swap for Drew Gooden and I don't know, Nocioni perhaps. :king

[crc21209]

Salmons Now More Likely To Land In OKC?

Sources indicate that Tuesday's trade between the Hornets and Thunder that sent Tyson Chandler to Oklahoma City makes a deal with the Kings for John Salmons even more likely.

The Thunder have suddenly shown a commitment to winning sooner rather than later, and Salmons would form a nice core with Russell Westbrook, Jeff Green, Kevin Durant and Chandler.

Oklahoma City still has the expiring deals and draft picks needed to acquire a player like Salmons.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57357/20090218/salmons_now_more_likely_to_land_in_okc/

[ss1986v2]

strike salmons off the list:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/02/18/bulls.kings.trade/index.html


The Kings agreed on Wednesday to a trade that sends forward John Salmons and center Brad Miller to the Chicago Bulls in exchange for forwards Drew Gooden and Andres Nocioni, according to league sources. The deal will reduce Sacramento's obligations next season, saving the Kings millions on the salary cap and keeping them well under any potential luxury tax payments. Gooden, making $7.15 million this season, will likely come off the team's cap after this year, and now, the team is free of the $5.4 million due to Salmons in 2009 and the $12 million due to Miller in '09.

[EricB]

Looks like Vince Carter is all thats left...

[ManuTP9]

this thread is pointless now i guess......

[crc21209]

Salmons and Miller gone, now we're left with Sheed, Jefferson or VC.

[lurker23]

Actually I think the Kings would rather look for a team like Chicago. Perhaps work a Miller+Salmons swap for Drew Gooden and I don't know, Nocioni perhaps. :king

hahaha, Yeah, I had a feeling they wanted to get rid of them both at once. They got a better deal for the two pieces than the one I offered.

[coyotes_geek]

hahaha, Yeah, I had a feeling they wanted to get rid of them both at once. They got a better deal for the two pieces than the one I offered.

I'll fess up that I went back and edited after the fact. :lol

[lurker23]

I'll fess up that I went back and edited after the fact. :lol

What did the original say, out of curiosity? :)