Mavs Decline Baron Davis/Kaman for Kidd

[mavs>spurs2]

anyone else just see this on espn? I can't find a link yet

[BlackSwordsMan]

good kaman is coming to the spurs

[Leetonidas]

If it's true they're fucking morons.

[monosylab1k]

I will punch a homeless man in the dick tonight if this is true.

[mardigan]

That is unbelievable if true.

[Allanon]

Mavs Decline Baron Davis/Kaman for Kidd
anyone else just see this on espn? I can't find a link yet

Jason Kidd is the 2nd best player in the NBA, the Mavs would be crazy to do that trade.

[jack sommerset]

Jason Kidd is the 2nd best player in the NBA, the Mavs would be crazy to do that trade.

:lol

[monosylab1k]

If this is true, I won't root for the Mavs until Mark Cuban sells the team.

[monosylab1k]

If this is true, I will let a homeless man punch me in the dick tonight as well. Holy fuck this better not be true.

[timvp]

I will donkey punch a homeless man tonight if this is true.Better threat.

[mavs>spurs2]

I see where the Clippers are going with this, getting rid of 2 disgruntled players for a salary dump. But where do the Mavs get off declining this trade? Seriously? It just doesn't get any better than picking up 2 guys with all star potential in recent years for a declining old point guard who really isn't a good fit here. Well, unless you're the Lakers and pick up Gasol for fun

[HarlemHeat37]

why the fuck would the Mavs want those garbage players?..

Kidd's contract ends this year, Dallas will have a lot of cap room..if they take the trade, they'd have to deal with those horrible contracts until 2012..Baron Davis has absolutely no interest in basketball anymore, and Kaman sucks..

I can't believe Mavs fans would even consider this trade..

Baron Davis hasn't shot over 50% ONCE this season..not even ONCE..he's a chucker, he plays no D, he's ineffieicent in every way, he no longer cares about playing basketball..

Kaman is overrated, soft, injury prone, has attitude problems..

[Reck]

If this is true, Stern should make Cuban retired.

There has got to be a limit per dumb fucking moves you make. Even if it is your own team. For god's sake.

[sonic21]

wow just wow (if it's true)

[jack sommerset]

why the fuck would the Mavs want those garbage players?..

Kidd's contract ends this year, Dallas will have a lot of cap room..if they take the trade, they'd have to deal with those horrible contracts until 2012..Baron Davis has absolutely no interest in basketball anymore, and Kaman sucks..

Yup

[Reck]

why the fuck would the Mavs want those garbage players?..

Kidd's contract ends this year, Dallas will have a lot of cap room..if they take the trade, they'd have to deal with those horrible contracts until 2012..Baron Davis has absolutely no interest in basketball anymore, and Kaman sucks..

I can't believe Mavs fans would even consider this trade..

Baron Davis hasn't shot over 50% ONCE this season..not even ONCE..he's a chucker, he plays no D, he's ineffieicent in every way, he no longer cares about playing basketball..

Kaman is overrated, soft, injury prone, has attitude problems..

Its hard to be interested in playing Basketball when your team is the Clippers.

[HarlemHeat37]

well..he signed with them in the off-season..clearly he has no interest in winning..

[mavs>spurs2]

PPG-13.9 RPG-9.40 APG-1.9 EFF+ 19.87

Yeah those numbers suck ass. Last years numbers were even better:

PPG-15.7 RPG-12.7 BPG-2.8

Kill yourself HarlemHeat. Kaman might not be first team all nba, but he's the closest thing the Mavs would have ever seen to a post threat.

[Sportstudi]

Its hard to be interested in playing Basketball when your team is the Clippers.

:lmao:lmao

but seriously, it has two sides. on the one hand, we could get a younger point guard and finally someone for the low post. but on the other hand, as harlemheat37 already wrote, Kidd's contract is expiring, davis sucks this year and kaman is unfortunately injury prone. thus I'm not angry right now if it's true

[mardigan]

well..he signed with them in the off-season..clearly he has no interest in winning..

He thought Brand was re-signing there, (although it doesn't seem now like that would have made much of a difference), and what the Mavs have obviously isn't working, so why not bring in a guy who when he's hot can take over a game, and the first real center they would have had since Roy Tarpley. They still want to win now, and that would have been the best option I would think.

[Shastafarian]

Maybe Cuban is still bitter that Baron sank his #1 seed. And that beard...oh that beard.

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/623/v04239agy3.jpg

[HarlemHeat37]

if you wanted to deal with Kaman AND Baron's horrible contracts until 2012, instead of having a huge expiring deal like Kidd's..then I guess that sucks for you that Mavs ownership had enough sense not to make this deal..

[Darthkiller]

kidd is the 2nd best player in the league, obvioulsy he is untouchable.

[pauls931]

kidd is the 2nd best player in the league, obvioulsy he is untouchable.

where did he put nash? probably pretty low since he left Dallas?

[mavs>spurs2]

if you wanted to deal with Kaman AND Baron's horrible contracts until 2012, instead of having a huge expiring deal like Kidd's..then I guess that sucks for you that Mavs ownership had enough sense not to make this deal..

Mavs would still be well over the cap if you minus Kidd's 20 mil. We weren't getting any of those big name free agents in 2010 anyway, and our window is closing.

[Findog]

why the fuck would the Mavs want those garbage players?..

Kidd's contract ends this year, Dallas will have a lot of cap room..if they take the trade, they'd have to deal with those horrible contracts until 2012..Baron Davis has absolutely no interest in basketball anymore, and Kaman sucks..

I can't believe Mavs fans would even consider this trade..

Baron Davis hasn't shot over 50% ONCE this season..not even ONCE..he's a chucker, he plays no D, he's ineffieicent in every way, he no longer cares about playing basketball..

Kaman is overrated, soft, injury prone, has attitude problems..

:tu

[lefty]

They declined that offer?

ROFL, stupid decision

[IronMexican]

If this is true, I won't root for the Mavs until Mark Cuban sells the team.

Pussy

[Findog]

It's ludicrous to take on two injury-prone guys with huge contracts that run past 2010. I like those guys a lot, but not their contracts or their injury histories.

[Findog]

actually, Dallas gets no cap relief if Kidd walks this summer... but whatever, taking back those contracts wouldn't get this team a title and would wreck their cap space even more.

[Findog]

seriously, buyer beware with Kaman's Bill Walton feet and Davis' history of being an injury-prone cancer.

[Sportstudi]

It's ludicrous to take on two injury-prone guys with huge contracts that run past 2010. I like those guys a lot, but not their contracts or their injury histories.

:tu :tu

[monosylab1k]

:rolleyes I have to seriously question the intelligence of any Mavs fan who would reject this trade. You have to be fucking retarded to think this is a bad idea.

[mardigan]

actually, Dallas gets no cap relief if Kidd walks this summer... but whatever, taking back those contracts wouldn't get this team a title and would wreck their cap space even more.

I don't know, a team with Baron, Terry, Dirk, Howard and Kaman would be pretty damn scary.

[monosylab1k]

seriously, buyer beware with Kaman's Bill Walton feet and Davis' history of being an injury-prone cancer.

So we just sit and wait for a miracle?

[clambake]

i don't see them landing anyone better....now or in the future.

baron kills when motivated.....and kaman would take defenders away from dirk.

[mavs>spurs2]

:rolleyes I have to seriously question the intelligence of any Mavs fan who would reject this trade. You have to be fucking retarded to think this is a bad idea.

Yeah we're basically two talented guys for one. A slashing point guard like what we've missed with Devin since the trade. And the closest thing to a low post threat this franchise has ever seen, the one thing we have lacked in the Dirk era.

[lefty]

Kobe Bryant

[Sportstudi]

I don't know, a team with Baron, Terry, Dirk, Howard and Kaman would be pretty damn scary.

It would be a nice team, I agree. But as I already wrote, the problem is IMO not just the players. It's their fatty contracts and unfortunately both are very injury prone. On the other hand, we would have a younger PG and finally someone for the low post. Hmmm....

[timvp]

This trade actually makes a lot of sense for all teams involved, especially the Mavs. (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1765~1018~2745~2761~429~841~37 8~3837~194~1982&teams=6~6~21~21~12~21~6~12~6~9&te=&cash=)

:hat

[mavs>spurs2]

I guess Cuban declined this trade so fast that there was nothing to write about, they only made one small mention of it on the show.

[Findog]

I don't know, a team with Baron, Terry, Dirk, Howard and Kaman would be pretty damn scary.

Davis and Kaman are not reliable. Neither is Josh. We'd be like the Rockets, awesome on paper, but not on the court.

[Findog]

So we just sit and wait for a miracle?

No more panic trades.

[clambake]

maybe we could try being awesome on paper.

[sook]

lol! This would make the mavs close to unstoppable. The rockets already suck so i don't really care whether the mavs get bette ror worse

[monosylab1k]

Davis and Kaman are not reliable. Neither is Josh. We'd be like the Rockets, awesome on paper, but not on the court.

I'm convinced that if the Heat offered Dwyane Wade and Michael Beasley for Erick Dampier and Gerald Green, you'd reject it out of the principle that we'd have no center.

[BUMP]

This trade actually makes a lot of sense for all teams involved, especially the Mavs. (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1765~1018~2745~2761~429~841~37 8~3837~194~1982&teams=6~6~21~21~12~21~6~12~6~9&te=&cash=)

:hat

:lmao

[monosylab1k]

No more panic trades.

Well wake me up when the miracle happens, I'm sure it's right around the corner.

[monosylab1k]

We love our team.

[stretch]

This trade actually makes a lot of sense for all teams involved, especially the Mavs. (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1765~1018~2745~2761~429~841~37 8~3837~194~1982&teams=6~6~21~21~12~21~6~12~6~9&te=&cash=)

:hat

:lmao

[BUMP]

Mavs dug themselves in a hole with a stupid trade, we're not going anywhere with this team the way it is now might as well take the chance.

[Findog]

I'm convinced that if the Heat offered Dwyane Wade and Michael Beasley for Erick Dampier and Gerald Green, you'd reject it out of the principle that we'd have no center.

Kaman hasn't played since November, so it's more like Kidd's expiring for Davis. They do this deal, and you'll be bitching about Davis' contract in 2012 when he's 35 and the Mavs still haven't made it past the second round. The Mavs should've done Kidd for Billups if they ever had a chance at that.

[BUMP]

Well wake me up when the miracle happens, I'm sure it's right around the corner.

probably one of those fans who think we can land Lebron

[Allanon]

Baron Davis is only injury prone when he's on a sucky team.

[mavs>spurs2]

Maybe Baron can show Dirk the power of the beard and come playoff time he will be hitting fadeaways from half court

[hater]

Baron next to Dirk would be a sick duo.

Dumbass mavs. It's not that Kidd < Baron. But I think he fits the team better. they need to get a shooting PG that can get hot. baron would be good match

but what else can you expect from that dumb mav organization

[BUMP]

on a side note, can somebody take a good look at the Clippers roster and tell me how they are fucking the second worst team in basketball by a half game?

Baron Davis
Marcus Camby
Chris Kaman
Al Thornton
Fred Jones
Eric Gordon
Ricky Davis

some people here actually thought they would compete for a championship

[monosylab1k]

Kaman hasn't played since November, so it's more like Kidd's expiring for Davis. They do this deal, and you'll be bitching about Davis' contract in 2012 when he's 35 and the Mavs still haven't made it past the second round. The Mavs should've done Kidd for Billups if they ever had a chance at that.

Kaman is set to come back after the All-Star break.

So do you want to make a run at a title with Dirk or just blow it up? Your miracle isn't going to happen. This trade puts a considerably larger amount of talent around Dirk, along with a guy who has game-tested brass balls come playoff time (Kaman, too.....literally).

As of right now, the window for a title is barely open and will be slammed shut in a year. This trade would not only open up the window a little larger, it would keep the window open another 2-3 years.

[mardigan]

Still haven't seen anything about this on the interwebs, so maybe it was just one of the wishfull thinking I heard it wrong kind of things.

[Thompson]

No more panic trades.

I can understand being a bit timid about panic trades after the 'Kidd for our future' fiasco, but if anything, the Kidd trade made Dirk's window even smaller. You can either play it safe and all but count on having to rebuild, or you can take a chance that Baron and Kaman might work out with Dirk, Howard, and Terry.

Assuming things went well, you might be able to make a decent run in the playoffs (you might also want to get another player for Stackhouse). If things went badly, the only difference would be 1 or 2 more years before you could start rebuilding in earnest.

[BUMP]

Kaman is set to come back after the All-Star break.

So do you want to make a run at a title with Dirk or just blow it up? Your miracle isn't going to happen. This trade puts a considerably larger amount of talent around Dirk, along with a guy who has game-tested brass balls come playoff time (Kaman, too.....literally).

As of right now, the window for a title is barely open and will be slammed shut in a year. This trade would not only open up the window a little larger, it would keep the window open another 2-3 years.

+1

[mavs>spurs2]

Still haven't seen anything about this on the interwebs, so maybe it was just one of the wishfull thinking I heard it wrong kind of things.

They talked about it on espn news for 3-4 minutes. Cuban immediately declined, there isn't much story there

[IronMexican]

:lol

[Findog]

i'd be more willing to do camby/davis. I don't trust big men with foot problems.

[Thompson]

i'd be more willing to do camby/davis. I don't trust big men with foot problems.

But I think when the possibility of Davis/Kaman is broached with Dirk, his German eyes will sparkle at the thought of another tall blond guy. :lol

[sook]

Its not just that Kaman looks fucking retarded. I would think twice about my fanhood if he ever got traded here

[SenorSpur]

For those Mavs fans that want Baron Davis, is there any concern about:

keeping him motivated or his reputation as a coach-killer?

[papashango]

well..he signed with them in the off-season..clearly he has no interest in winning..


He thought Brand was going to resign. That was the whole point in going to Clippers. To make them a powerhouse. Instead they basically ended up replacing Brand with Baron.

[xtremesteven33]

If this is true.....the Mavs are freakin retarted.

Davis
Terry
Howard
Nowitzki
Kaman


thats a damn good lineup.

[monosylab1k]

For those Mavs fans that want Baron Davis, is there any concern about:

keeping him motivated or his reputation as a coach-killer?

Those same concerns were there for Jason Kidd.

[Obstructed_View]

why the fuck would the Mavs want those garbage players?..

Kidd's contract ends this year, Dallas will have a lot of cap room..if they take the trade, they'd have to deal with those horrible contracts until 2012..Baron Davis has absolutely no interest in basketball anymore, and Kaman sucks..

I can't believe Mavs fans would even consider this trade..

Baron Davis hasn't shot over 50% ONCE this season..not even ONCE..he's a chucker, he plays no D, he's ineffieicent in every way, he no longer cares about playing basketball..

Kaman is overrated, soft, injury prone, has attitude problems..

I agree. That said, with an aging Mavs roster and a closing window, it's pretty much time to swing for the fence because nothing's looking brighter down the road. If both of them play well the Mavs could put together a playoff run.

[mavs>spurs2]

Well guys looks as if I have been unintentionally trolling. I've been watching espn news for over an hour and have yet to see them mention this news again. Although there is a Kidd for Davis/Camby rumor on another board.

The funny thing is me and a friend both saw it, looked at eachother and said what a dumbass.

[The Franchise]

That trade would have made the Mavs a lot better. A lot of pressure would have been taken off of Dirk as well. They should have done it.

[Bandwagon Spurs Fan]

Foolish Mavs. Getting Dirk a complimentary low post threat is worth the trade.

Good job Cuban, Spurs already had enough competition with LA :tu

[mavs>spurs2]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=amaredealscenario-090207

this is also interesting:



MAVERICKS: Jason Kidd
• See this trade in the ESPN Trade Machine

Why they'd do it: The Mavs want to be relevant again, and adding Shaq in the middle could help. He's having an All-Star year, and the Mavs can surround him with shooters. Although Kidd has played well, he's not the player he was, and Jason Terry could take over in his stead.

The Suns would be getting $21 million of cap room. And how would they handle the awkward situation of having both Kidd and Nash again? Probably by waiving Kidd.

Why they wouldn't: Mark Cuban's pockets aren't as deep as they used to be. Adding Shaq would cost him roughly $40 million next year after factoring in the luxury tax hit. That's a lot of cash.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree that the Mavs should make a trade, but they can get a better one than this..if it was a great trade like you guys are saying, why wouldn't they do it? Cuban obviously doesn't want to lose, he has passion for winning..

I can't imagine what you guys would be saying in 2012, when Baron Davis contract is still on the books..

[Brickhouse]

Cuban will never admit his failed Kidd trade.

As for the "future", there is no future once Dirk decides to check out. And that will be before 2010 b/c this team is only getting worse and worse. No big name is coming to Dallas in 2010.

[BUMP]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=amaredealscenario-090207

this is also interesting:



MAVERICKS: Jason Kidd
• See this trade in the ESPN Trade Machine

Why they'd do it: The Mavs want to be relevant again, and adding Shaq in the middle could help. He's having an All-Star year, and the Mavs can surround him with shooters. Although Kidd has played well, he's not the player he was, and Jason Terry could take over in his stead.

The Suns would be getting $21 million of cap room. And how would they handle the awkward situation of having both Kidd and Nash again? Probably by waiving Kidd.

Why they wouldn't: Mark Cuban's pockets aren't as deep as they used to be. Adding Shaq would cost him roughly $40 million next year after factoring in the luxury tax hit. That's a lot of cash.

Shaq, Nowitzki, Howard, Terry i think=game over for the rest of the league.

it doesnt really make sense why the Suns would want Kidd and then just waive him and be left with nothing though.....

[Brickhouse]

The Mavs FO think they can only make some minor upgrades to be contenders while also being players for 2010. That's fucking delusional. The team, with Dirk in his prime RIGHT NOW, needs MAJOR upgrades, which may mean taking back some bad contracts. Right now Kidd is giving you 8/9 (oh I forgot the "intangibles"). Whoop-dee-fucking-doo. Yeah I like him as a player, but he is not a fit for this team.

If they want to win now, they need to make a major gamble (maybe not this trade, but a trade of this magnitude). If they are worried about their future, then start playing Gerald Green 48 minutes and rest Dirk with an ankle injury until they can sign this elusive big name FA that is just dying to come to Dallas.

[iggypop123]

cuban must be poor if he wouldnt accept that. or carlisle said hell no to those 2 players

[mavs>spurs2]

The Mavs FO think they can only make some minor upgrades to be contenders while also being players for 2010. That's fucking delusional. The team, with Dirk in his prime RIGHT NOW, needs MAJOR upgrades, which may mean taking back some bad contracts. Right now Kidd is giving you 8/9 (oh I forgot the "intangibles"). Whoop-dee-fucking-doo. Yeah I like him as a player, but he is not a fit for this team.

If they want to win now, they need to make a major gamble (maybe not this trade, but a trade of this magnitude). If they are worried about their future, then start playing Gerald Green 48 minutes and rest Dirk with an ankle injury until they can sign this elusive big name FA that is just dying to come to Dallas.

Yeah Kidd isn't a fit, and two talented guys for one is an upgrade. And if it doesn't work out, we have 2 more trading pieces to bring someone else in this offseason and try something else. We have nothing to lose, in a couple years its all over with anyways. Might as well try something

[mavs>spurs2]

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34729&page=2

To quote someone on dallas-mavs.com,

"On the Staying or Going session on EPSN about 5 minutes ago, Rick Bucher said the clippers offered Baron back to GSW for Mags.

They also offered Kamen + Baron to Dallas for Jkidd, but no one wants to take back that contract, is what they were saying.

Hopefully Dallas is going to take this deal, but are just waiting to see if the Clippers are going to fold and offer a 1st rounder as well. (Maybe Camby instead? who knows.)"

So I knew I wasn't crazy, this definately did happen. I wonder why there is no more mention of it

[Sportstudi]

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34729&page=2

To quote someone on dallas-mavs.com,

"On the Staying or Going session on EPSN about 5 minutes ago, Rick Bucher said the clippers offered Baron back to GSW for Mags.

They also offered Kamen + Baron to Dallas for Jkidd, but no one wants to take back that contract, is what they were saying.

Hopefully Dallas is going to take this deal, but are just waiting to see if the Clippers are going to fold and offer a 1st rounder as well. (Maybe Camby instead? who knows.)"

So I knew I wasn't crazy, this definately did happen. I wonder why there is no more mention of it

Maybe it's in the works and Cuban just declined it, because he doesn't want to have rumors until it's done? Who knows? Let's wait for 9 days more, then we all know.

[layupdrill]

No one is gonna take the Baron Davis bloated contract. You will have better luck trading Gilbert Arenas

[MWILL]

No one is gonna take the Baron Davis bloated contract. You will have better luck trading Gilbert Arenas

That's what i'm thinking too. Who would want to take on Baron's contract?

Also, who knows about Kamans foot?

BTW, I think Kidd has been playing great for Dallas. I would love to keep him here.

I think the Mavs are trying to trade J. Howard, Stack, and maybe Damp.

[Findog]

Think of it this way: Davis is an injury-prone locker room lawyer. Kaman has been battling foot injuries for the past year. They have long, bloated contracts that run well past 2010.

The Mavs have slipped from elite to mediocre. They have to either make one more attempt to reload with Dirk, or they blow it up. They're not going to trade Dirk and blow it up in this economy. They need to draw well. You don't do the first offer you get, certainly not when these guys are available for a reason.

[endrity]

Kidd is not playing well and has not been ever since he was traded, people who still defend the trade baffle me. Just check the record since the trade, it barely floats above .500

Point is Kidd can't score, he is barely average in the halfcourt, and this season even his man to man defense has fallen off considerably. Some nice hustle plays and fastbreak passes don't make up for it.

Harris was a better player for this team LAST YEAR, cause this one it's not even worth discussing.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I will punch a homeless man in the dick tonight if this is true.

:lmao

[Ghazi]

If this is true, I'm not terribly upset.

I'm not sure if Davis and Kaman would even make us elite. People are overrating these players, and people on here don't watch Clippers games. And even if they do, whens the last fucking time Chris Kaman and Baron Davis played a game together?

Neither of them are that good.

Keep in mind this is expensive and risky as fuck, and doesn't guarantee anything. Id still take the Lakers or Spurs in a 7 game series over us, with Baron and Kaman. If this move doesn't guarantee a title (it clearly doesn't), then why the fuck spend shitloads of $? Just to squeak out a playoff series win?

It's easy for us to call it stupid when its not our $ on the line.

I think people have a misconception that Baron Davis is actually good. The guy is shit, except for one fluke 2007 series against the Mavs.

Also, for the people who say Cuban is stupid for this. NOT doing this deal is probably the most fiscally responsible route. How much stupider would he look in 2 years with Davis and Camby eating his money while sitting on the sidelines?

I can't be upset at our beloved Cuban considering the risks and expenses involved with these 2 players.

[HarlemHeat37]

wow, great post from Ghazi..did I really just type that?..

[Ghazi]

Kidd is not playing well and has not been ever since he was traded, people who still defend the trade baffle me. Just check the record since the trade, it barely floats above .500

Point is Kidd can't score, he is barely average in the halfcourt, and this season even his man to man defense has fallen off considerably. Some nice hustle plays and fastbreak passes don't make up for it.

Harris was a better player for this team LAST YEAR, cause this one it's not even worth discussing.

You're selling Kidd short, big time.

If I could redo the trade I would, but Im not gonna pretend the Mavs would be elite this year just because they had Devin Harris.

Kidd's scoring is moot, if we were a good defensive team I would buy it, but defense is the #1 achilles heel this year. Quite frankly this team either forgot how to play defense, lost a step with age, or doesn't feel like playing defense. Kidd's on the ball defense is a problem, but we've been atrocious with perimeter defense for years, so I'm not gonna attribute it to him alone.

It starts with defense my friends. Look at all the past champions, the common denominator has usually been very good defensive efficiency. We're the 16th ranked defense in the league right now. Anyone actually believe HARRIS would make us an elite defensive team?

[HarlemHeat37]

Harris has actually been a below average defender for the Nets this year as well..probably due to lack of effort though, since he's their 1st/2nd option..

[HarlemHeat37]

I find Kidd to still be a good defender, but only against SGs..he isn't quick enough to stay with PGs..I've been impressed whenever he guards 2s though..

[Spur-Addict]

:lol @ Dallas

[Ghazi]

I find Kidd to still be a good defender, but only against SGs..he isn't quick enough to stay with PGs..I've been impressed whenever he guards 2s though..

Our beloved Kidd hsa been fine this year.

It's the team defense that's a problem.

If we were playing defense at the level we were 2 years ago, ceteris paribus, we'd be right there with the Spurs right now.

Or if we were playing defense the way we were last year (good, not great), we'd have 2-3 more wins.

But now our defense is just average.

I wrote a week or two ago about how the Mavs didn't get significantly worse after the Kidd trade last year (although reflective in the record), they just started having bad luck in close games and Dirk missed 5 games himself. I still stand by that opinion.

For people on the outside, the media, fans who dont watch the games, etc... you see the 35-18 record before Kidd trade and 16-13 after last year and assume Kidd was a reason the team got much worse... it didnt exactly work like that IMO.

This year of course its the defense. its why Kidd, Terry, and Dirk are putting up relatively good numbers, but its not showing up in W/L column.

Again, the BIGGEST issues with the Kidd trade are 1. it was probably a lateral move 2. draft picks sacrificed 3. Kidd is 10 years older than Harris.

But as far as on the court performance, the Mavs didn't get much worse last year. Now they are not as good this year, but there's no way to determine we'd be much better with Harris.

[Rogue]

B Davis isn't the point of their package, what we want most is kaman who is a great center than can make our team more balanced, dampier is not capable enough to keep his role on this great team. I have always been expecting the German combination of Dirk and Kaman in our paint, but cuban or his employees have declined that trade... Kidd is a good player and his contract is expiring, taking B Davis's garbage contract is really a gamble for our team but... our team could have landed a good center.

[sribb43]

Taking on 2 long term contract on 2 injury prone players is ridiculous. I can see taking on Kaman but B. Diddy too? No, thanks. Ill take J kidd's 40 % bc he doesnt shoot a ton of shots but a 38% chucker will kill your team

A motivated Davis is very dangerous on the court..problem is, he isnt playing for a contract for another 5 years

[sribb43]

Yeah we're basically two talented guys for one. A slashing point guard like what we've missed with Devin since the trade. And the closest thing to a low post threat this franchise has ever seen, the one thing we have lacked in the Dirk era.

try a jump shooting PG who shoots tons of off balance shots that only went in against the Mavs and in a contract year

[mavs>spurs2]

try a jump shooting PG who shoots tons of off balance shots that only went in against the Mavs and in a contract year

He has the potential to do it, doesn't mean he would. It'd definitely be a risk. But Baron Davis on the Hornets was one hell of a slashing PG

[lurker]

This trade actually makes a lot of sense for all teams involved, especially the Mavs. (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1765%7E1018%7E2745%7E2761%7E42 9%7E841%7E378%7E3837%7E194%7E1982&teams=6%7E6%7E21%7E21%7E12%7E21%7E6%7E12%7E6%7E9&te=&cash=)

:hat
:toast

[monosylab1k]

If this is true, I'm not terribly upset.

I'm not sure if Davis and Kaman would even make us elite. People are overrating these players, and people on here don't watch Clippers games. And even if they do, whens the last fucking time Chris Kaman and Baron Davis played a game together?

Neither of them are that good.

Keep in mind this is expensive and risky as fuck, and doesn't guarantee anything. Id still take the Lakers or Spurs in a 7 game series over us, with Baron and Kaman. If this move doesn't guarantee a title (it clearly doesn't), then why the fuck spend shitloads of $? Just to squeak out a playoff series win?

It's easy for us to call it stupid when its not our $ on the line.

I think people have a misconception that Baron Davis is actually good. The guy is shit, except for one fluke 2007 series against the Mavs.

Also, for the people who say Cuban is stupid for this. NOT doing this deal is probably the most fiscally responsible route. How much stupider would he look in 2 years with Davis and Camby eating his money while sitting on the sidelines?

I can't be upset at our beloved Cuban considering the risks and expenses involved with these 2 players.

we love our team.


Think of it this way: Davis is an injury-prone locker room lawyer. Kaman has been battling foot injuries for the past year. They have long, bloated contracts that run well past 2010.

The Mavs have slipped from elite to mediocre. They have to either make one more attempt to reload with Dirk, or they blow it up. They're not going to trade Dirk and blow it up in this economy. They need to draw well. You don't do the first offer you get, certainly not when these guys are available for a reason.

we love our team.


Taking on 2 long term contract on 2 injury prone players is ridiculous. I can see taking on Kaman but B. Diddy too? No, thanks. Ill take J kidd's 40 % bc he doesnt shoot a ton of shots but a 38% chucker will kill your team

A motivated Davis is very dangerous on the court..problem is, he isnt playing for a contract for another 5 years


try a jump shooting PG who shoots tons of off balance shots that only went in against the Mavs and in a contract year

we love our team.

[Findog]

we love our team.



we love our team.





we love our team.

we love our team!

[Findog]

I hate mono's avatar btw.

[monosylab1k]

Harris has actually been a below average defender for the Nets this year as well..probably due to lack of effort though, since he's their 1st/2nd option..

When has Harris ever been a good defender? He drew alot of charges with solid flopping skills, but come playoff time he got curbstomped by D-Wade and Baron Davis.

[BlackSwordsMan]

we love our team!

4 WE LOVE OUR TEAMS FAGGOT

[Indazone]

Holy Crap! Baron Davis alone is better than Kidd. Let alone throw in Chris Kaman who is better than that cesspool the Mavs have at Center. That woulda been an instant upgrade for the Mavs.

More Cuban stupidity!

[monosylab1k]

Kidd is not playing well and has not been ever since he was traded, people who still defend the trade baffle me. Just check the record since the trade, it barely floats above .500

Point is Kidd can't score, he is barely average in the halfcourt, and this season even his man to man defense has fallen off considerably. Some nice hustle plays and fastbreak passes don't make up for it.

Harris was a better player for this team LAST YEAR, cause this one it's not even worth discussing.

:lol wow, such blind hatred for Kidd. The guy is playing very well, and the offense gets completely out of sync when he's not playing.

He had a freakin +/- of +39 tonight!

[Findog]

Anybody who says Kidd is not doing his part is not paying attention.

[monosylab1k]

Anybody who says Kidd is not doing his part is not paying attention.

Kidd has been huge for the team this year, and without Kidd, this team's record is probably closer to Minnesota's record and the lottery. They've been a very very bad team without Jason Kidd on the floor. Only a blind Kidd hater can say he hasn't been valuable to this thing. He's been just as valuable as Dirk and Terry have been.

With that said, trading Kidd for Baron/Kaman is still a no-brainer.

[Ghazi]

Kidd has been huge for the team this year, and without Kidd, this team's record is probably closer to Minnesota's record and the lottery. They've been a very very bad team without Jason Kidd on the floor. Only a blind Kidd hater can say he hasn't been valuable to this thing. He's been just as valuable as Dirk and Terry have been.



We love our team

[monosylab1k]

:cheer

[Ghazi]

Our beloved Kidd has been more than fine for us. There's no rule that a PG needs to slash to be effective, the Fakeshow might win it all this year with Derrick frickin Fisher as PG.

You want some slashing go find an explosive wing or a legitimate SG (ANTOINE MUTHAFUCKIN WRIGHT!).

We love our beloved Devin, but I get a sense he's become grossly overrated by a few Mavs fans (and non-Mavs fans) ever since his departure. All hes doing in NJ is putting up stats in a system centered around him, big fucking whoop. He's a rich man's Allen Iverson.

I'm not implying we're better off without Devin, I'm just saying that our beloved Mavs have a lot of flaws, but PG play isn't one of them.

Kidd's the 2nd best player on our team IMO.

[endrity]

Yes, he had a great game. Actually Kidd owns the bad teams, he probably has the biggest variation in performance between games against good teams and bad teams. I have said this before, but against not well organized teams, he can pick them apart, make the plays that still set him appart and all.

It's against organized teams, that don't turn the ball over, that know how to turn him into a liability that we miss him. It's not a surprise that the mavs used to win a lot of close games with Harris against good teams and now they lose those games. Harris' ability to make something out of broken plays was key against good teams which force you out of options a and b on a play. That is Kidd's biggest weakness. At his peak Kidd was very underrated athletically, he could get to the basket with speed and power so his weak shooting never was a big problem, but it is now.

And on defense he used to be a monster, complete shutdown kind of player. Now he gets killed by quicker guards.

That's the problem I have with him. Yes he is still the most intelligent player out there, but his limitations are clear.

[024]

the same baron davis that torched the mavs in 2006? davis does suck this year and would probably prefer to stay in LA so he can make his movies. kaman on the other hand, is exactly who the mavs need - a low post scorer. dirk settles a lot on fade away jump shots and dampier doesn't accomplish much. davis and kaman at full strength would put them at the top. cuban must be very confident in finding someone next year because if he doesn't, he just wasted dirk's prime.

[iggypop123]

our beloved... enough of this already

[Ghazi]

So I just looked at the Clipshow stats... Davis has missed 14 games this year and is shooting a magnificent 35% in the other 38.

Kaman has missed 37 games this year, and missed 27 games last year.

This + their fat contracts, what's the fascination with these guys? You think we gonna hit a home run with Baron motherfuckin Davis and Chris Kaman? Davis has done nothing except for a fluke series where he hit bullshit horse shots. I haven't watched much of Kaman to be honest, but 64 games missed in 2 years gives me a softie.

[endrity]

the same baron davis that torched the mavs in 2006? davis does suck this year and would probably prefer to stay in LA so he can make his movies. kaman on the other hand, is exactly who the mavs need - a low post scorer. dirk settles a lot on fade away jump shots and dampier doesn't accomplish much. davis and kaman at full strength would put them at the top. cuban must be very confident in finding someone next year because if he doesn't, he just wasted dirk's prime.

Well that's what the Clippers were thinking as well, and there is a reason they are on the trade block.

[endrity]

our beloved... enough of this already

I cosign on that, I have started to hate it.

[Brickhouse]

The Kidd trade was made with the "win now" mentality, so yes, in that regards, it was a major fail. The Mavs are in a worse position than they were and next year they have to make the playoffs b/c of their pick to NJ. What are you going to do with Kidd after another failed season? Give him an extension? Let him sign for cheap to the Lakers or Cavs? Is JJ going to be our PG of the future?

Yes Kidd has been good this season. But if you can get upgrades for him, you absolutely do that. Now if Kaman has major health concerns, then you don't do this deal. But let's stop with the bullshit about wanting a trade but when every scenario comes around, it's always "oh eh not worth it blahblahblah". Newsflash: there are no brainer deals out there. No team is going to give their impact players for our shit. Winning now means taking a gamble one more time b/c the last one didn't work out.

[Ghazi]

the same baron davis that torched the mavs in 2006? davis does suck this year and would probably prefer to stay in LA so he can make his movies. kaman on the other hand, is exactly who the mavs need - a low post scorer. dirk settles a lot on fade away jump shots and dampier doesn't accomplish much. davis and kaman at full strength would put them at the top. cuban must be very confident in finding someone next year because if he doesn't, he just wasted dirk's prime.

What the hell does "wasted" prime mean? Dirk was on a 60 win team at age 27 (should've won it all if not for BS shots and whistles), won an MVP and 67 games the year later (should've won it all if not for fluke bullshit shots), and was on a 51 win team last year. Is every great player SUPPOSED to be on a contending team? There's only 3-4 contenders every year, but there's 10-15 truly "great" players in the league.

[endrity]

The Kidd trade was made with the "win now" mentality, so yes, in that regards, it was a major fail. The Mavs are in a worse position than they were and next year they have to make the playoffs b/c of their pick to NJ. What are you going to do with Kidd after another failed season? Give him an extension? Let him sign for cheap to the Lakers or Cavs? Is JJ going to be our PG of the future?

Yes Kidd has been good this season. But if you can get upgrades for him, you absolutely do that. Now if Kaman has major health concerns, then you don't do this deal. But let's stop with the bullshit about wanting a trade but when every scenario comes around, it's always "oh eh not worth it blahblahblah". Newsflash: there are no brainer deals out there. No team is going to give their impact players for our shit. Winning now means taking a gamble one more time b/c the last one didn't work out.

It also means Cuban has to take another huge financial loss, and in this time I don't think he wants to do that unless he is sure about the deal. But yes, the Kidd trade shortened the window with Dirk, so you either make another deal to give the Mavs another chance with Kidd or just blow it up and stop paying luxury tax on a failed team.

[endrity]

What the hell does "wasted" prime mean? Dirk was on a 60 win team at age 27 (should've won it all if not for BS shots and whistles), won an MVP and 67 games the year later (should've won it all if not for fluke bullshit shots), and was on a 51 win team last year. Is every great player SUPPOSED to be on a contending team? There's only 3-4 contenders every year, but there's 10-15 truly "great" players in the league.

Please stop it!!!!

[Ghazi]

Yes, he had a great game. Actually Kidd owns the bad teams, he probably has the biggest variation in performance between games against good teams and bad teams. I have said this before, but against not well organized teams, he can pick them apart, make the plays that still set him appart and all.

It's against organized teams, that don't turn the ball over, that know how to turn him into a liability that we miss him. It's not a surprise that the mavs used to win a lot of close games with Harris against good teams and now they lose those games. Harris' ability to make something out of broken plays was key against good teams which force you out of options a and b on a play. That is Kidd's biggest weakness. At his peak Kidd was very underrated athletically, he could get to the basket with speed and power so his weak shooting never was a big problem, but it is now.

And on defense he used to be a monster, complete shutdown kind of player. Now he gets killed by quicker guards.

That's the problem I have with him. Yes he is still the most intelligent player out there, but his limitations are clear.

Kidd's had triple doubles against the Spurs and Lakers this year.

Kidd was great in both games against the Lakers

Kidd was great against the Magic and Blazers earlier this week.

Kidd's truly bad games are the ones where he just flat out can't put the ball in the bucket... the 1-8 games, 2-8, etc... he's done that against good and bad teams alike. Or those 4-5 TO games.

He can usually help us in other areas, but we're not talented enough to get away with him shooting like that.

For the most part, he's been pretty good lately, the last truly atrocious game Kidd had was against New Orleans.

Keep in mind 7 of our losses this year are by 19+, I have a hard time blaming those kind of losses on any 1 player. we need to learn how to play at least adequate defense (doubt we're capable of it, it is what it is :()

[Obstructed_View]

Anybody who says Kidd is not doing his part is not paying attention.

Very true. He's also been the team's best clutch player. If the trade had been Harris for Kidd straight up, it'd be really hard to make a case that it wasn't exactly the short-term upgrade they were looking for in the first place.

[endrity]

Well we would probably lose against the Lakers anyway because we just can't contain Bryant with Kidd or Harris, but he is probably the single biggest reason why we have lost the edge we had against the Spurs. They had no answer for Harris, and he tormented Parker like no one in this league.

He has been attrocious this year and last against the Celtics as well. And of course let's not forget NO and Utah this easily, I know CP3 and Deron are probably the best PGs in the league, but they simply dominate him every time, no only do they score with the greatest of ease, but they dictate tempo so much better than Kidd does (and that is supposed to be his area of dominance).

Look I enjoy watching Kidd, I don't think we would be elite with Harris either, but he has clear limitations against good teams and he doesn't have enough to push us beyond good teams. In the 4th quarter all we can run is the Jet and Dirk pick and roll, we have no offense outside of that. It's just that simple, and yet I will still cheer when he makes some amazing fast break pass that no one expects.

[mavs>spurs2]

Very true. He's also been the team's best clutch player. If the trade had been Harris for Kidd straight up, it'd be really hard to make a case that it wasn't exactly the short-term upgrade they were looking for in the first place.

Someone hasn't been doing their homework. Terry is our most clutch player. A while back they mentioned a stat during a game, Terry was 2nd in the league in fourth quarter field goals.

[Shank]

Did someone seriously write that Davis is better than Kidd? Baron Davis is shit. And if you see him, tell that motherfucker that Shank said that shit.

[Obstructed_View]

They had no answer for Harris, and he tormented Parker like no one in this league.

Didn't last long. Parker's pretty much had his way with Harris as a Net. Last night's performance was rather efficient.

[Ghazi]

Our window was closing before the Kidd trade, anyway. Or was already sealed shut.

The Mavs had 3 years in the Dirk era where they were capable of winning a championship: 2003, 2006, and 2007.

Well in 2003 we did have a nice little run with our run and gun, no D and rebounding ways... caught a break with C-Webb's injury... but come WCF our beloved Dirk got injured and we had to witness Kerr hit a bunch of bullshit 4th quarter shots. Oh well, can't do anything about injuries.

In 2006 we were beneficiaries of: Amare being injured, Sarver being a dumbass, Dwight Howard/CP3/D Will/Roy were non factors, and Kobe Bryant and Lebron James were on shitty rosters. Only 1 team we had to worry about, the Spurs. And we caught some breaks and beat them in OT. In the Finals, we were the better team but were slayed by absolute bullshit whistles and absolute bullshit shots. Ugh.

In 2007, more or less all of the above held constant. Kobe and Lebron were still on shitty rosters, Dwight/CP3/Deron/Roy were non factors, now all we had to worry about was the Suns and Spurs. We ran into the fucking W's in the 1st round though, a team that had won 6 of the last 7 against us, and their fluky bullshit shooting continued throughout the series and we folded in game 6. It was a miserable performance by our beloved Mavs, and one always ponders what happens if the Clippers or Lakers get that 8th seed. Do we lose to the Jazz/Spurs anyway? Do we go on to the Finals and get slayed by the King? Or would we have won the whole damn thing? These are questions we ponder about our beloved Mavs, but it's moot.

Well that was it, that was our window. That's it. Now Lebron does not have a shitty roster, and neither does Kobe. Now CP3 and Dwight Howard are factors, and the Spurs are still around. The Suns are done, but they've been replaced by a slew of young superstars. And in a few years, you gotta start worrying about the Blazers, maybe even the Thunder. The Big 3 formed in Boston. That's it, it was over for our beloved Mavs, we blew/got fucked out of our chance and didn't add much talent to our team. Not only that, Dirk is no longer performing at an MVP level. a very high level, but nothing along the lines of 50/90/40, which is probably what we'd need out of him just to have a shot. We miss our beloved Van horn, Stackhouse, Daniels, etc... we didn't add talent.

Now who do we have to worry about? The Lakers... the Celtics... the Cavs... the Magic... the Spurs... the Nuggets.... Hornets... Rockets. So many teams are either on the same level than us, or a class ahead of us. And there doesn't seem to be a realistic trade out there that could vault us into contention, not one, and it breaks GHAZI's heart :(

[endrity]

Didn't last long. Parker's pretty much had his way with Harris as a Net. Last night's performance was rather efficient.

Well because from what I have seen Harris doesn't bother with defense anymore. He made the leap, and now thinks defense is for role players. But with the Mavs had had to defend in order to be in the floor. And he was a much larger pain to deal with when he was playing in a team with Dirk, Jet, and a motivated Howard, rather than by himself on offense.

[endrity]

Ghazi, he Warriors made some tough shots, especially Baron in game 6, but they had the tempo they wanted all series long. We never got a handle of them, and it was like that for two straight seasons against them. They were our kryptonite if there ever was one, even at a time when the Mavs were toying with the rest of the league. They deserved that victory against us. Please accept that and move on.

There was nothing fluky, lucky, bullshity about that.

[Brickhouse]

Well that was it, that was our window. That's it. Now Lebron does not have a shitty roster, and neither does Kobe. Now CP3 and Dwight Howard are factors, and the Spurs are still around. The Suns are done, but they've been replaced by a slew of young superstars. And in a few years, you gotta start worrying about the Blazers, maybe even the Thunder. The Big 3 formed in Boston. That's it, it was over for our beloved Mavs, we blew/got fucked out of our chance and didn't add much talent to our team. Not only that, Dirk is no longer performing at an MVP level. a very high level, but nothing along the lines of 50/90/40, which is probably what we'd need out of him just to have a shot. We miss our beloved Van horn, Stackhouse, Daniels, etc... we didn't add talent.

Now who do we have to worry about? The Lakers... the Celtics... the Cavs... the Magic... the Spurs... the Nuggets.... Hornets... Rockets. So many teams are either on the same level than us, or a class ahead of us. And there doesn't seem to be a realistic trade out there that could vault us into contention, not one, and it breaks GHAZI's heart :(

In that case, why are they still floundering around in mediocrity instead of starting the inevitable rebuilding process soon.

[Ghazi]

So we were never that "great" to begin with. We had a really good team in 2007, but the fact that we allowed the Warriors to hit a bunch of fluky bullshit shots showed we lacked the stuff of champions.

Same in 2006, we weren't "actually" a championship team, we just caught a lot of breaks, we capitalized on them until the Cheat hit a bunch of BS shots and whistles.

It just doesn't make sense at the end of the day, is Dirk good enough to be the #1 on a title team? JET the #2? J-Ho the #3? I would say no to all 3.

Dirk is really good, one of the best PF's ever and a hall of famer, but he's not on the level of guys like Duncan, Shaqtus, Jordan, Hakeem. You need one of "those guys" to win a title, and Dirk isn't that. The day Dirk is the 2nd best player on a team though is trouble for the league, if that ever occurs.

But "those guys" don't grow on trees, they come once in a blue moon. That's why 15 franchises still do not have championships, and thats why all the championships seem to be concentrated among a select few franchises. They were fortunate enough to land one of "those guys", we weren't. But we will love our Mavs until the end of time.

[Ghazi]

In that case, why are they still floundering around in mediocrity instead of starting the inevitable rebuilding process soon.

I dunno :downspin:

But I don't look forward to rebuilding, quite frankly from a fan's perspective I'd rather be mediocre than rebuilding. There's no guarantee of a title from rebuilding anyway, you could wind up like the Blazers are now with a bright future (but what if their future ends up being like the Kings, Mavs, and Blazers of earlier this decade? A string of 50+ win seasons but no cigar), or you could wind up like the Queens, T-Wolves, or like the Bulls post-MJ.

Who are we gonna rebuild around anyway? the first essential ingredient is a superstar. If anyone has a young franchise player, they won't give him up to us. Anyone good coming out of college in the next few years? Blake fucking Griffin? Stephon Curry? Ricky Rubio? Derozan? yeah... don't think these guys are franchise players.

Personally I think we're fucked, Lebron is only 24. The league is DOOMED!

[mavs>spurs2]

So we were never that "great" to begin with. We had a really good team in 2007, but the fact that we allowed the Warriors to hit a bunch of fluky bullshit shots showed we lacked the stuff of champions.

Same in 2006, we weren't "actually" a championship team, we just caught a lot of breaks, we capitalized on them until the Cheat hit a bunch of BS shots and whistles.

It just doesn't make sense at the end of the day, is Dirk good enough to be the #1 on a title team? JET the #2? J-Ho the #3? I would say no to all 3.

Dirk is really good, one of the best PF's ever and a hall of famer, but he's not on the level of guys like Duncan, Shaqtus, Jordan, Hakeem. You need one of "those guys" to win a title, and Dirk isn't that. The day Dirk is the 2nd best player on a team though is trouble for the league, if that ever occurs.

But "those guys" don't grow on trees, they come once in a blue moon. That's why 15 franchises still do not have championships, and thats why all the championships seem to be concentrated among a select few franchises. They were fortunate enough to land one of "those guys", we weren't. But we will love our Mavs until the end of time.

No one near that level was on the 2004 pistons, the 2008 Celtics, etc. It takes a great team to win it all, not necessarily superstars, and the 2006-2007 mavs were great. Things just didn't go our way

[Brickhouse]

You can win with a "1.5" like Dirk but only with the right supporting cast, which does not equal Erica dampier as your low post presence and Mr. 2.2 points-in-the-Fourth-Quarter as your second best player. That's not to say that Dirk didn't fuck up some of the chances either, but now that window is firmly shut and he is the only hope for this sinking team.

[Ghazi]

Yeah, but the 2004 Pistons as we all know were fluke champions.

And the 2008 Celtics are very rare, a team with THREE hall of famers. the 2006 team had 1 HoF, our beloved DIrk. Now we have 2 hall of famers, but Kidd, while still very effective, is past his prime.

Also, the 2008 Celtics are fluke champions, as shall be proven when they are dethroned this year.

[Ghazi]

You can win with a "1.5" like Dirk but only with the right supporting cast, which does not equal Erica dampier as your low post presence and Mr. 2.2 points-in-the-Fourth-Quarter as your second best player. That's not to say that Dirk didn't fuck up some of the chances either, but now that window is firmly shut and he is the only hope for this sinking team.

Indeed you can! But it's very difficult and requires a lot of luck.

The 2004 Pistons who we all know are fluke champions benefited from: Fakeshow dysfunction, a fluky bullshit .4 shot, and the Pacers getting raped by injuries.

Our beloved '06 team had some breaks, which is why it was in a position to win a title with a "1.5" in the first place, but of course the Stern mafia decided D-Whistle the wheelchair primadonna bitch was more worthy of hoisting the Larry than our beloved Dirk.

The 2008 Celtics didn't have a true superstar, but it was just really stacked. a solid, veteran bench... THREE hall of famers, decent PG play even... truly a rarity, and even then, they needed fluke BS shots in the 4th Q against the Cavs.

[mavs>spurs2]

Yeah, but the 2004 Pistons as we all know were fluke champions.

And the 2008 Celtics are very rare, a team with THREE hall of famers. the 2006 team had 1 HoF, our beloved DIrk. Now we have 2 hall of famers, but Kidd, while still very effective, is past his prime.

Also, the 2008 Celtics are fluke champions, as shall be proven when they are dethroned this year.

Many people on the board will disagree with you here. That Piston team had some of the best team d ever

[Ghazi]

The Spurs defense was better that year, the Spurs were probably the best team in the league but got slain by the fluke bullshit .4 shot.

[monosylab1k]

Did someone seriously write that Davis is better than Kidd? Baron Davis is shit. And if you see him, tell that motherfucker that Shank said that shit.

Davis + Kaman > Kidd

[Austin_Toros]

MAVS ARE MORONS.
this trade would have benefits for BOTH teams.
Clips would have made cap room and got rid of one of the millions of bigs they have.
Mavs are obviously struggling and would benefit from getting two players that can contribute. At least Baron would be playing on a decent team (production goes up??)

Cuban is a moron.
Why didn't clips just offer Camby instead of Kaman??? Wouldn't they want the younger Camby (ie Kaman)??


good kaman is coming to the spurs
i hope so too :)

[Austin_Toros]

http://i40.tinypic.com/t9taaf.jpg

[Ghazi]

MAVS ARE MORONS.
this trade would have benefits for BOTH teams.
Clips would have made cap room and got rid of one of the millions of bigs they have.
Mavs are obviously struggling and would benefit from getting two players that can contribute. At least Baron would be playing on a decent team (production goes up??)

Cuban is a moron.
Why didn't clips just offer Camby instead of Kaman??? Wouldn't they want the younger Camby (ie Kaman)??


i hope so too :)

1. Injury prone
2. Expensive as fuck
3. No guarantee that we would win a title, let alone be a contender
4. We love our fucking team :bking

[cabass88]

the mavs are dirt! they should of never got rid of nash and/or devin harris... and lol erica dampier so fun to watch run up and down the floor! btw i was a mavs fan till they got stackhouse and lost nash!

[Rogue]

Dampier grabbed 16 rebounds tonight.

our team is not good enough to guarantee the title but we still have a chance to contend and win it.

[Def Rowe]

cuban must be poor if he wouldnt accept that. or carlisle said hell no to those 2 players

That's about all I can think of too. Well that and Cuban perhaps being gun-shy about making large mid-season trades now.

[InK]

Jason Kidd is the 2nd best player in the NBA, the Mavs would be crazy to do that trade.

Roflmao, good one Allan. Cuban's revolutionary stats allready pay first divedence.

[endrity]

I agree with Brick and Mavs>Spurs on two counts here.

The 04 Pistons were really really really good. There was nothing fluky about that team. Too bad Rip never played at the level he did that year. He killed Artest in the ECF, and it was the Pistons, not the Pacers, who had injury problems (Rasheed having various foot issues).

You can win with Dirk, or as now we are starting to call them 1.5 type players. History proves it. But you need to put a good cast around them, and the Mavs had it in 06. And then they allowed the talent level to erode through stupid trades. It began with the Marquis for Croshere, I never understood that one, especially since Quis was really good at attacking the basket, something which we know now wings need to do in a team with Dirk.

[ElNono]

Mavs really want/need Kaman or a guy that plays the post like him. Davis would be dead weight and a bad contract to boot. So it's kind of tough to rate this trade proposal. I'm fairly sure if the offer was for Kaman only, Cubes would have taken it more seriously. Baron at his best is a great player, and much better than the current version of Kidd. The problem is that he keeps getting injured, and I think his head is more outside the game than into it these days. I just don't know what other bigs Dallas could grab though. When Brand was available, Donnie didn't make a move. Kaman has been on the trading block for a bit now, and no dice. Are they waiting for Bosh in 2010? There's no guarantee they'll land him. I just don't know what the FO is thinking. Do they really think they can win without a low post threat out there?

[Sportstudi]

Ghazi, he Warriors made some tough shots, especially Baron in game 6, but they had the tempo they wanted all series long. We never got a handle of them, and it was like that for two straight seasons against them. They were our kryptonite if there ever was one, even at a time when the Mavs were toying with the rest of the league. They deserved that victory against us. Please accept that and move on.

There was nothing fluky, lucky, bullshity about that.

:tu
The only series with bad luck with fluke shots and bad officiating were the Finals in 2006. In 2003 and 2007 I disagree with Ghazi. As you wrote, there was nothing fluky, they were simply better than the Mavs.

[Sportstudi]

Many people on the board will disagree with you here. That Piston team had some of the best team d ever

Yes, their defense was extraordinary

[endrity]

If Kaman was healthy they would do the trade immediately I think, even with Baron's contract. He and Dirk also got along pretty well during the summer while playing for German's national team. But he has had some injuries for two seasons in a row now, and if you add the fact that their contracts are both long and big, during a deep recession, it makes that much harder to pull the trigger.

I know Dallas wants to be a player in 2010 but I don't think it's happening honestly. Not with NY, NJ (soon to be Brooklyn), and Miami also being players during that year. Dallas has never been a great FA destination. They aren't a small market, but not a big one like NY, Chicago, LA, Philly, Boston. And while it's warm, it's nothing like Cali or Florida in terms of entertainment/lifestyle. So they don't have quite the appeal to be a great FA destination.

[de Soto]

I will suck a homeless man's dick tonight if this is true.

Whatever. :rolleyes

[sribb43]

If Kaman was healthy they would do the trade immediately I think, even with Baron's contract. He and Dirk also got along pretty well during the summer while playing for German's national team. But he has had some injuries for two seasons in a row now, and if you add the fact that their contracts are both long and big, during a deep recession, it makes that much harder to pull the trigger.

I know Dallas wants to be a player in 2010 but I don't think it's happening honestly. Not with NY, NJ (soon to be Brooklyn), and Miami also being players during that year. Dallas has never been a great FA destination. They aren't a small market, but not a big one like NY, Chicago, LA, Philly, Boston. And while it's warm, it's nothing like Cali or Florida in terms of entertainment/lifestyle. So they don't have quite the appeal to be a great FA destination.

mavs have always been over the cap. You really expect a guy like Rashard Lewis, Kobe, etc to accept less money to come to Dallas?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Do I see pink?

[Shank]

Davis + Kaman > Kidd

They'd actually have to play on an actual basketball court during a real game to prove this. Seeing as neither can stay healthy long enough, this makes that point moot. That and Davis' shooting makes Jason Kidd look like Craig Hodges.

[sribb43]

I bet if kaman got traded to the Mavs, his foot would get alot better. Im just not keen on acquiring Davis on his long contract. Alot of Mavs fans views of Davis are skewed by his performance in the 07 playoffs against us. Im all for getting Kaman, just not Daivs

[monosylab1k]

They'd actually have to play on an actual basketball court during a real game to prove this. Seeing as neither can stay healthy long enough, this makes that point moot. That and Davis' shooting makes Jason Kidd look like Craig Hodges.

we love our team.

[Ghazi]

We really do love our team :)

[024]

What the hell does "wasted" prime mean? Dirk was on a 60 win team at age 27 (should've won it all if not for BS shots and whistles), won an MVP and 67 games the year later (should've won it all if not for fluke bullshit shots), and was on a 51 win team last year. Is every great player SUPPOSED to be on a contending team? There's only 3-4 contenders every year, but there's 10-15 truly "great" players in the league.

calm down. dirk isn't a "great player," he's a former MVP. there's only six or seven of them in the league. all of them used to be or are on a contending team. obviously the mavs want to make a push for a championship when one the league's MVP is at his prime. is there another better time than right now? right now they are wasting dirk's prime because they can't contend for a championship. anything less of a championship is considered a failure because the mavs were built to win a championship. mavs and dirk have higher expectations because they were so good.

it's the same for the suns. you look back at the suns and you don't think oh they've had one of the best records in the league for the past three years. no, people see a championship contender that failed to capture a ring. you want to make a push for a championship when your best player is playing at his best. mavs tried it for two years and failed. the 2003 and 2004 lakers were loaded to contend for the championship. even though they reached the finals in 2004, i wouldn't consider that team a success. lakers were able to blow it up and rebuild because bryant was still so young. dirk is not, which goes back to my original point that cuban must be very confident in acquiring someone next year or in 2010 to keep jkidd. having an MVP still in his prime is the best chance the mavs will ever have to win a championship. the same goes for all other teams.

[angel_luv]

The Mavs have some good players but have repeatedly come up short in various stages of the play offs.
If I was the Mavs (which I am glad I am not) I would not hesitate to make trades.
Sure they have some good players on their team, but those guys, depsite numermous opportunites, have yet to put any Championship trophies in the case.

Make a big trade. Shake things up.

It is not like doing so would interfere with any great trend the Mavs have going- unless continously choking in the play offs when it counts is their goal.
If so, then carry on. :toast

[BUMP]

The Mavs have some good players but have repeatedly come up short in various stages of the play offs.
If I was the Mavs (which I am glad I am not) I would not hesitate to make trades.
Sure they have some good players on their team, but those guys, depsite numermous opportunites, have yet to put any Championship trophies in the case.

Make a big trade. Shake things up.

It is not like doing so would interfere with any great trend the Mavs have going- unless continously choking in the play offs when it counts is their goal.
If so, then carry on. :toast

we love our team

[angel_luv]

we love our team

That speaks well of your patience and character. :toast

:)

[DAF86]

I will punch a homeless man in the dick tonight if this is true.

If it is for the cap space thing then I agree, but if it is for the trade in itself. I think it's pretty good: two good quality players (even though they're both injured now, I think) for a washed up player that doesn't fit well in the team.

Does anybody know if Davis and Kaman would be able to play this year?

[Ghazi]

If it is for the cap space thing then I agree, but if it is for the trade in itself. I think it's pretty: two injury prone players with fat ass contracts for a great PG who the Mavs would be .500 without

Does anybody know if Davis and Kaman would be able to play this year?

Fixed. WE LOVE OUR TEAM!

[Sportstudi]

It's not only because both are injury prone and have fatty contracts. Davis is only interested about himself, he doesn't care about anything but his beloved money. I don't want someone with such an attitude in Dallas.

Btw, I do not mean that no player cares about the money. Of course they do and it's normal. But it's a difference if you care more about the money than about your team.

[monosylab1k]

Baron Davis couldn't have helped defensively against Tony Parker. Chris Kaman couldn't have helped us take advantage of a Duncan-less post.

[Ghazi]

Baron Davis couldn't have helped defensively against Tony Parker. Chris Kaman couldn't have helped us take advantage of a Duncan-less post.


Newsflash: Kaman hasn't played a game in months and Baron davis is a 35% chucker who doesn't care about basketball.

But let's assume you're right, and mono my fellow Mavs fan, I know you're a "championship or bust" guy, not a guy who cares about a few more regular season wins.

Davis/Kaman wouldn't bring us a championship my good friend. They wouldn't even put the Mavs on the level of the Lakers/Cavs/Celtics, maybe not even Spurs.

[leemajors]

Newsflash: Kaman hasn't played a game in months and Baron davis is a 35% chucker who doesn't care about basketball.

But let's assume you're right, and mono my fellow Mavs fan, I know you're a "championship or bust" guy, not a guy who cares about a few more regular season wins.

Davis/Kaman wouldn't bring us a championship my good friend. They wouldn't even put the Mavs on the level of the Lakers/Cavs/Celtics, maybe not even Spurs.

i'd put my money on Davis stepping it up more than a few notches on a playoff team. the clip is horrible.

[coyotes_geek]

i'd put my money on Davis stepping it up more than a few notches on a playoff team. the clip is horrible.

I'd put my money on Mav fans wondering two years from now why the hell they were paying Davis and Kaman $30 mil a year for a team that still isn't anywhere close to a contender.

[Shank]

You get a cookie!

[monosylab1k]

I'd put my money on Mav fans wondering two years from now why the hell they were paying Davis and Kaman $30 mil a year for a team that still isn't anywhere close to a contender.

two years from now the Mavericks won't be anywhere close to contenders regardless. I'd rather they go for it right now rather than throw all their chips in 2010 and then be really screwed when NOBODY SIGNS WITH THEM.

[Ghazi]

two years from now the Mavericks won't be anywhere close to contenders regardless. I'd rather they go for it right now rather than throw all their chips in 2010 and then be really screwed when NOBODY SIGNS WITH THEM.

Kaman/Davis. Just not sensing a championship vibe from them. Good players, not core players on a championship team though.

Baron Davis, I find him weak mentally, and indifferent toward basketball. Of course, that would fit the theme of our boys in blue :hat

Also, 35% chucker. yeah I know the Clippers suck, well fine. Career 41% chucker. 2007 v Mavs wasn't the real Baron Davis, it was an aberration.

Chris Kaman? I don't know much about him. Certainly an upgrade over Dampier, but I don't consider him an elite center at all. also, foot problems.

The Mavs may not be nowhere in 2 years regardless. But with these contracts it would be more difficult to rebuild in the future.

But alas, I really don't think the 2010 plan is what the Mavs are actually planning. No way do they plan on wasting a year of beloved Dirk's prime in 2009-2010, perhaps his last year of "prime". Would they honestly let Stack and J-Ho go to waste in the offseason, keep them around for a year, just to save salary and sign a free agent who isn't coming here? Surely our boys in blue are smarter than that, surely.

But anyway, Davis/Kaman isn't "going for it" now, it's making a small upgrade now, and adding further dilemma to a likely bleak future.

[monosylab1k]

Surely our boys in blue are smarter than that, surely.

What have Donnie Nelson & Mark Cuban done to possibly make you think that?

[Ghazi]

FO is inept and has a poor eye for talent, this much is undeniable.

But the "2010 plan"... it doesn't make any sense. I don't even think it's technically possible unless half the roster is D-leaguers/rookie FA's, scrubs, etc.

It would have some sense to it if Dirk was a few years younger, maybe if we had a few stud young players still on rookie contracts. but Dirk is 30, and our young players are Barea and Bass, who are nothing more than bench players.

I really hope the plan is exploiting the recession possibly lowering the cap this offseason and getting some pieces from J-Ho/Stack/2009 pick, but that's probably a pipedream in itself.

I'll be pretty disappointed if the Mavs throw away the 2009-2010 season for the 2010 pipedream. Especially since they've kinda conceded the fact that they're not contenders this season. The market this offseason seems like it should be better than the trade deadline this year, and Stack/J-Ho have heightened value and carroll and #1 pick can be thrown into deals.


Its probably the homer in me that thinks those assets can turn our boys in blue into contenders for 2009-2010. Oh well.

I hope that if Kidd is going to another team it's in a sign and trade. too.

[Ghazi]

I miss Nelly and Del Harris.

[Shank]

Unless Kidd resigns for pennies next season, he can fuck himself. I like the guy and what he brings, but not as the starting PG. His money and what he brings will not work if there's a 2010 plan. Give me a Ramon Sessions or Felton and see what the Mavs can do. Cheaper, quicker, more apt to score and able to work within the blueprint of Dirk taking a paycut and throwing big money at one of the supposedly-available superstars.

[dirk4mvp]

I can't decide if I like de Soto or this faggot up here the least.

[Shank]

BenJarvis is actually mentally retarded. Bless his heart.

[Ghazi]

I was thinking the same thing.

[coyotes_geek]

two years from now the Mavericks won't be anywhere close to contenders regardless. I'd rather they go for it right now rather than throw all their chips in 2010 and then be really screwed when NOBODY SIGNS WITH THEM.

I can understand that logic, but aren't there safer bets out there than Davis & Kaman? The price for betting it all on those two guys and being wrong is pretty steep.

[dirk4mvp]

You are all mentally retarded if you think the Mavs declined the offer to get 2 good players for a washed up owl.

As long as I'm a Grizzly fan, I can talk shit to Mono about his favorite team.

[IronMexican]

:lol