LCD > Plasma

[tlongII]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/pioneer-says-goodbye-to-plasma-manufacturing/


Pioneer says goodbye to plasma manufacturing

We wondered why its so hard to find one of Pioneer's award winning Kuro plasmas on shelves these days, and here is the answer. The Nikkei is reporting that Pioneer plans to stop producing plasma panels altogether, and only put together HDTVs with panels purchased from other sources. Panasonic and Hitachi remain as the only Japanese plasma manufacturers, Pioneer already has a deal with the former to purchase plasmas for its 42-inch model, and will expand that agreement according to The Nikkei. Honestly, this wouldn't be a big deal for most companies, as we've seen with the Sony/Sharp/Samsung triangle in LCD manufacturing, but since Pioneer is the only manufacturer promising the blackest black levels this side of carbon nanotubes, we're freaking out a bit. Here's hoping Pioneer slides over the blueprints to the infinite contrast concept (and that sexy 9mm model) and keeps the party going.


I'd say LCD will be the defacto standard now.

[tlongII]

Of course I said that years ago here and nobody believed me... :lol

[lefty]

LCD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plasmette

[Frenzy]

this is just like the blue ray and HD DVD war....well was.

[TDMVPDPOY]

plasma consumes too much energy compared to LCD.....

hence the govt down here wants all plasmas sales banned, and shift to alternative goods with low energy consumption......

[Cry Havoc]

LCD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plasmette

Care to back that up with any facts?

Plasmas have truer colors, deeper blacks, and don't succumb to streaking.

[IronMexican]

Plamas also die fast.

[chode_regulator]

I guess they can't claim the blackest blacks anymore. They're plasmas were just straight up bad ass. Best TV's I've ever seen but damn they wanted a premium for them. Economy is so bad, dropping 10k jobs and cutting a piece of their lineup off. Also a Jap. paper recently reported about Pioneer cutting ALL TV production all together.

We all know LCD's sell more than plasmas, doesn't mean they are better. They still sell CRT's and Rear Projections and advancing that technology with the use of lazers.

lcds only sell more, or at least get a huge advantage from, the fact taht they are available inmore sizes. i htink plasmas only go down to like 42 or maybe 40 inches.

also the article said there were only two manufacturers left in japan. isnt samsung in japan? or did they stop manufacturing plasmas?


Plamas also die fast.


:nope way to use old info guy.


really it all boils down to what you prefer. they each offer advantages over the other

[leemajors]

Care to back that up with any facts?

Plasmas have truer colors, deeper blacks, and don't succumb to streaking.

is that true with OLED LCDs as well?

[tlongII]

Care to back that up with any facts?

Plasmas have truer colors, deeper blacks, and don't succumb to streaking.

The article is fact enough. Plasmas will soon be a thing of the past. Companies will stop manufacturing them.

[Cry Havoc]

The article is fact enough. Plasmas will soon be a thing of the past. Companies will stop manufacturing them.

Yes. Almost entirely because they use far more power than LCDs and the public perception has moved away from Plasmas. LCDs are the "new thing" and are being marketed much more aggressively, and Plasmas have questionable reputations because of burn-in (almost zero chance now unless you like to go away for 12 hours and leave your TV with a static image on) and short operating lifetimes (also a thing of the past, my TV is rated at 100,000 hours, I believe).

I just bought a big screen TV (42"). I looked in 6 or 7 different stores. I looked at every Plasma I could find, and almost every LCD. From what I could tell, the TV I ended up with, a $1000 Panasonic plasma, had about the same picture quality as a $3000 LCD screen. Even then, if I had to, I would probably give the nod to the Plasma screen. The color reproduction is spot-on. On everything except the VERY best of LCDs, you will see color problems. Either reds will be pinker than they should, greens will be lighter, blacks are lighter, that kind of thing.

Plasmas also hold a significant advantage in that if you have to display a SD signal, they do a much better job with less pixelation than LCDs.

I was of the mindset that I was going to buy a Samsung LCD for my home. I was 100% set on the TV that I wanted, even. I went to CC and Best Buy, looked around, and when I put that LCD up to the plasma, there was no comparison on the accuracy of the picture. The Panasonic plasma blew it away. It was a huge, noticeable difference.

So stop hiding behind, "zomg they're not making them as much so they're not as good" as your retreating argument after you make some clearly untrue statements about new plasma TV models and are proven wrong. Pioneer is ceasing production of the Kuro because they don't make enough money on them and people aren't buying them enough, not because they're inferior. Go to your local store and look at a Kuro plasma TV. It will absolutely torch any LCD in the store in every single picture category. There is simply no comparison.

[Cry Havoc]

is that true with OLED LCDs as well?

OLEDs are very comparative, if not better than some plasma TVs, from what I have read.

An 11 inch OLED will also run you $2500 right now. And OLEDs are not considered LCDs anyway, so it's moot to the thread title.

[tlongII]

Yes. Almost entirely because they use far more power than LCDs and the public perception has moved away from Plasmas. LCDs are the "new thing" and are being marketed much more aggressively, and Plasmas have questionable reputations because of burn-in (almost zero chance now unless you like to go away for 12 hours and leave your TV with a static image on) and short operating lifetimes (also a thing of the past, my TV is rated at 100,000 hours, I believe).

I just bought a big screen TV (42"). I looked in 6 or 7 different stores. I looked at every Plasma I could find, and almost every LCD. From what I could tell, the TV I ended up with, a $1000 Panasonic plasma, had about the same picture quality as a $3000 LCD screen. Even then, if I had to, I would probably give the nod to the Plasma screen. The color reproduction is spot-on. On everything except the VERY best of LCDs, you will see color problems. Either reds will be pinker than they should, greens will be lighter, blacks are lighter, that kind of thing.

Plasmas also hold a significant advantage in that if you have to display a SD signal, they do a much better job with less pixelation than LCDs.

I was of the mindset that I was going to buy a Samsung LCD for my home. I was 100% set on the TV that I wanted, even. I went to CC and Best Buy, looked around, and when I put that LCD up to the plasma, there was no comparison on the accuracy of the picture. The Panasonic plasma blew it away. It was a huge, noticeable difference.

So stop hiding behind, "zomg they're not making them as much so they're not as good" as your retreating argument after you make some clearly untrue statements about new plasma TV models and are proven wrong. Pioneer is ceasing production of the Kuro because they don't make enough money on them and people aren't buying them enough, not because they're inferior. Go to your local store and look at a Kuro plasma TV. It will absolutely torch any LCD in the store in every single picture category. There is simply no comparison.

Dude, you don't get it. If Pioneer isn't making as much money on them, that means they are clearly inferior. You have to look at the total solution, including cost, to determine what the better product is. It's plain as day that LCD technology is superior.

[Cry Havoc]

Dude, you don't get it. If Pioneer isn't making as much money on them, that means they are clearly inferior. You have to look at the total solution, including cost, to determine what the better product is. It's plain as day that LCD technology is superior.

Now you're using circular logic to try to defend your position after being proven wrong. Cognitive dissonance, anyone? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that one TV is better than another because of superior marketing. How silly of me to think that such things as color depth, accuracy, black levels, resolution and detail, and design quality should be determining factors in the quality of a TV. The products that make the most money are clearly the best. Pioneer TVs make less money BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE WITH HIGHER QUALITY COMPONENTS.

This just in, Britney Spears is a superior singer to Paul Potts, a Ford Focus is a better car than a Ferrari Enzo, and the Nintendo Wii is a better gaming system than a 360 or a Ps3. After all, they make more money and that's all that matters when you're talking about quality.

[Cry Havoc]

^^ What Panny did you settle on. I have a 58'' Panasonic 700u.

The Panasonic Viera TH-42PZ:80U. Fantastic TV for the money. But apparently since it cost more to make than a Samsung LCD, it's not as good of a TV, despite having much better colors and black levels. :lol

[Slomo]

Of course I said that years ago here and nobody believed me... :lol

It wasn't true years ago. The development in picture processing software/power that is now built into LCD (to correct the many problems native to LCD) have allowed LCDs to catch up with plasma.


The article is fact enough. Plasmas will soon be a thing of the past. Companies will stop manufacturing them.

LCD are cheaper and easier to manufacture which results in a higher profit margin.



I'd say LCD will be the defacto standard now.

Not for long... :D

[tlongII]

It wasn't true years ago. The development in picture processing software/power that is now built into LCD (to correct the many problems native to LCD) have allowed LCDs to catch up with plasma.



LCD are cheaper and easier to manufacture which results in a higher profit margin.



Not for long... :D

What do you see coming down the pike to replace LCD Slomo? I'm sure there's something, I'm just not up to speed on what it is.

Good to see you agreeing with me otherwise though! :lol

[fraga]

You're all wrong...holographic isolinear gravametric projection is the wave of the future...at least that's what "they" tell me...who is "they" you ask...I cannot say at this time...

[Slomo]

I don't know what is coming. Sony seems to be very high on OLEDs, which do look very good (from the few prototypes I've seen) but I think they are working on making them bigger which apparently isn't easy (don't know the details).

I've read about "laser" TV screens which are supposed to be incredible (don't know how they work and never seen one myself)

I'm personally now studying a lot about LED screens (new job) and there's some pretty sweet development in that field - if you have room for an HD screen that is 18 ft wide :lol.

[Twisted_Dawg]

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/energy-hog-plasma-tvs-getting-banned-from-eu.php

One thing there is NO debate about: Plasma's are energy hogs. When I walk by mine it is like walking by a heater. In fact, the European Union is thinking of banning them due to energy usuage. I assume the energy usuage of plasmas has played into the decision making of the manufacturers. The whole green thing.

I bought a 1080 50" Hitachi plasma two years ago because at the time there was only one LCD over 50"........a 52" Sony Bravia at $4500 in 2007 dollars. I paid $1199 at Circuit.

Edit:
California also wants to ban them:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/california-wants-to-kick-energy-sucking-tvs-out-of-stores.php

[tlongII]

I don't keep up on it much any more. My dad was CTO for a large corporation that makes LCD displays. One of their primary customers was the USAF for their fighter jets. That's why I've known for a long time that LCD displays would be the dominant force in the market eventually.

[MiamiHeat]

lol

[Cry Havoc]

I don't keep up on it much any more.

So you admit that you don't know much about the subject you started the thread about.


My dad was CTO for a large corporation that makes LCD displays.

You're also openly stating that you're completely biased when making your initial statement without actual knowledge of what you're talking about.


One of their primary customers was the USAF for their fighter jets. That's why I've known for a long time that LCD displays would be the dominant force in the market eventually.

Wow, really? I guess that means I'll have a jet-powered car soon, because the technology on fighter planes is obviously an indicator of what we'll have in our home soon. :lol

For the record, the "best picture" doesn't belong to LCD or plasma right now.

http://www.oled-display.info/images/mitsubishi_laser_tv.jpg

65" Mitsubishi LaserVue TV. Has better picture and black level than a plasma, uses less energy than an LCD.

[tlongII]

So you admit that you don't know much about the subject you started the thread about.



You're also openly stating that you're completely biased when making your initial statement without actual knowledge of what you're talking about.



Wow, really? I guess that means I'll have a jet-powered car soon, because the technology on fighter planes is obviously an indicator of what we'll have in our home soon. :lol

For the record, the "best picture" doesn't belong to LCD or plasma right now.

http://www.oled-display.info/images/mitsubishi_laser_tv.jpg

65" Mitsubishi LaserVue TV. Has better picture and black level than a plasma, uses less energy than an LCD.

:lol

I didn't say that their only customer was the USAF! I'm just telling you that I was privy to insider information. You may or may not choose to believe me. It doesn't really matter...

[Cry Havoc]

:lol

I didn't say that their only customer was the USAF! I'm just telling you that I was privy to insider information. You may or may not choose to believe me. It doesn't really matter...

You used the fact that the the USAF was buying LCDs as proof of their ability to become the standard. By that extension, you stated that the "standard" categorically means that LCDs are better than plasmas. You've offered nothing to back up these statements.

[chode_regulator]

rofl at cry havocs domination over tlong in this thread

:lmao

[porscha]

LCD > Plasma

[tlongII]

You used the fact that the the USAF was buying LCDs as proof of their ability to become the standard. By that extension, you stated that the "standard" categorically means that LCDs are better than plasmas. You've offered nothing to back up these statements.

How do you figure? :lol I just showed you that Pioneer is no longer making Plasmas. I suppose you think that has nothing to with it? :lmao

[tlongII]

rofl at cry havocs domination over tlong in this thread

:lmao

You have an interesting definition of "domination." :lol

[Cry Havoc]

How do you figure? :lol I just showed you that Pioneer is no longer making Plasmas. I suppose you think that has nothing to with it? :lmao

Because they aren't making enough money on them. Not because they are of inferior quality. They are making less money on the Kuro line because they COST MORE TO MAKE. BECAUSE THEY ARE HIGHER QUALITY. How much more clearly must I say this?

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/pioneer-elite-kuro-pro/4505-6482_7-33002556.html?tag=mncol;lst

From TFA:

"The Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD represents the pinnacle of flat-panel HDTV picture quality."


You have an interesting definition of "domination."

When you admit that you have no clue what you're talking about and yet still try to have an argument with someone who has recently been researching said subject, you have very little ability to say that you're holding your own, since you wouldn't even know (and clearly don't) if you're even correct in your assumptions.

[DMX7]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/pioneer-says-goodbye-to-plasma-manufacturing/




I'd say LCD will be the defacto standard now.

de facto... for some reason that bothers me.

[MannyIsGod]

When I got my TV I got both and LCD and a Plasma. The Plasma looked a million times better colorwise (especially black). That was like 2 or 3 years ago I guess, so I'm sure its possible LCD has caught Plasma in that regard but people were saying that then and it wasn't even close for me.

[josh0414]

Plasma All the way Bitch

[tlongII]

In 5-7 years you won't even see plasma TV's in stores.

[josh0414]

In 5-7 years you won't even see plasma TV's in stores.
Yeah By then LCD will be being phased out by OED screens!!!!:rollin

[Cry Havoc]

In 5-7 years you won't even see plasma TV's in stores.

:lmao

Care to repeat yourself any further?

In 5-7 years LCD will have been replaced. The technology behind it is already reaching it's limit, and the Laser TVs have a much better picture.

[fraga]

OLED's are amazingly scary...I mean screens that are less than the width of a human hair...being able to be flexible...curved...bent...to think how fast things are advancing and evolving with technology...wow...yes soon there will be no LCD or Plasma...

[JoeChalupa]

I've been wanting a new flat screen. Maybe I should wait.

[Cry Havoc]

I've been wanting a new flat screen. Maybe I should wait.

It really depends on your budget. You can get a great TV for ~$1000 right now. Whatever comes along after that, there will be something that trumps that as well.

If you need a new TV -- buy one. If you don't, buy a cheap used one on craigslist or wait.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I've always liked the plasmas better. LCDs, for some reason, almost make me feel motion sick watching them.

What's the story on energy usage, how much more are we talking about with a plasma over an LCD?

[sabar]

Plasma TVs range from 200-600 watts, LCD ranges from 80-300 watts.

No doubt this is the largest disadvantage. Large plasmas use more energy than window A/C units and output a large amount of heat to boot.

I replaced all my CRT displays with LCDs because CRTs output so much more heat, it adds up. I could never get plasma, can't even afford to keep the A/C below 80F :lol

If energy and heat (and subsequently, money) are no object then nothing wrong with some plasma action.

[fraga]

C'mon now...seriously...if you're really that worried about your electricity bill due to your "plasma"...then you probably shouldn't be buying a plasma to begin with...

[chode_regulator]

You have an interesting definition of "domination." :lol

well considering youre whole argument is based on "well the air force bought them" and other htan that opinon, then yes you are being dominated in this conversation. believe it or not, in life you are wrong sometimes. its crazy. :downspin:


In 5-7 years you won't even see plasma TV's in stores.
great predicition


I've always liked the plasmas better. LCDs, for some reason, almost make me feel motion sick watching them.

What's the story on energy usage, how much more are we talking about with a plasma over an LCD?

i have no way to measure how much mine uses, but i ahve not noticed any considerable rise in my electric bill in the 10 months ive had a plasma. i have a 50" that has been on for several hours and i just ran my hand oer the whole screen about an inch away. no noticeable heat. their is some heat coming out of the back, but i would imagine that that is the whole reason there are vent holes drilled into the top of the backplate-ventilation.

personally i like plasma over lcd. thats me. honestly your best bet is to read as many reviews as you can, as much info as you can and go to the store and look at all the models.
i actually had bought a 42" lcd and took it home. i watched that last superman movie, the one about the actor not the actual movie, and it was a real dark movie. the screen was horrible so i took the tv back. hooked up plasma and instantly better. again oculd have been variety of factors but i like plasma better

[tlongII]

I claim PWNAGE!

[Cry Havoc]

I claim PWNAGE!

Let me guess: You wanted to claim "ownage", but you heard that Microsoft is buying the term "pwnage" so that it will now become the new internet slang word, thereby relegating "ownage" to one of the least used words, and you just want to stay ahead of the curve?

[MannyIsGod]

:lol CH you were destroying him early on but the fact you just responded to his last post has entirely shifted the balance. He just kinda did pwn you.

[JoeChalupa]

If you go by that logic, you'll be waiting and waiting and waiting. Do your research and jump in.

:lmao I'm not that into the whole LCD/Plasma, Blue Ray and HDTV thing. I don't need to see a person's pores and nose hairs to enjoy a movie or feel the heat during an explosion in an action movie.
I know you have to pay for quality but paying that much won't increase my liking a movie or TV show any better.
But it is time I think.

[tlongII]

:lol CH you were destroying him early on but the fact you just responded to his last post has entirely shifted the balance. He just kinda did pwn you.

He was NEVER destroying me. He doesn't know what he's talking about. How anyone can claim that "soon to be" obsolete technology is superior is beyond my comprehension. :rolleyes

[chode_regulator]

I've been wanting a new flat screen. Maybe I should wait.

oh yeha also check out circuit city. here in houston last weekend i think the plasmas were 25% off and lcd's 20%. im sure by now its more, but i would imagine less selection.


tlong, half your argument is "well its good enough for the air force...." which is a pretty lame argument

[Cry Havoc]

:lol CH you were destroying him early on but the fact you just responded to his last post has entirely shifted the balance. He just kinda did pwn you.

:lol Good to know I've lost your approval. Tlong's argument is so weak that I basically cannot lose against it, so I'm not particularly worried. I am admittedly just bored/frustrated with his utter incompetence on the subject.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao I'm not that into the whole LCD/Plasma, Blue Ray and HDTV thing. I don't need to see a person's pores and nose hairs to enjoy a movie or feel the heat during an explosion in an action movie.
I know you have to pay for quality but paying that much won't increase my liking a movie or TV show any better.
But it is time I think.I was pretty much in the same boat. I just wanted to get a flat screen mostly so it will be easier to navigate all the crap I download to watch at our leisure. It's a huge computer monitor in that respect, but the HD channels are definitely a bonus. It just so happened I decided to get one when the 32" ones started dropping below $400. It was bigger than the tv that it replaced and had all the connections I thought I would need.

I might become a snob about it later and move it into the bedroom when I get something bigger/better, but I think you would probably do fine to drop $4-500 on a similarly sized Samsung or the like when they go on sale at the various big box stores. Any larger and I would probably want the 1080 resolution, but life's too short to get hung up on these things.

[chode_regulator]

I was pretty much in the same boat. I just wanted to get a flat screen mostly so it will be easier to navigate all the crap I download to watch at our leisure. It's a huge computer monitor in that respect, but the HD channels are definitely a bonus. It just so happened I decided to get one when the 32" ones started dropping below $400. It was bigger than the tv that it replaced and had all the connections I thought I would need.

I might become a snob about it later and move it into the bedroom when I get something bigger/better, but I think you would probably do fine to drop $4-500 on a similarly sized Samsung or the like when they go on sale at the various big box stores. Any larger and I would probably want the 1080 resolution, but life's too short to get hung up on these things.

My tv is only 720p but I can't tell a difference. I'malso not overly picky about htese things. That being said my 50" plasma is on sale at CC for like a grand now. We moved our 32" into the bedroom and it looks tiny now, funny how big it looked when it replaced our two 19" tv's.
Anyway basically, get as big as you can afford without sacrificing quality, and if you cant tell a difference between 720 and 1080 dont worry about buying the one with 1080. Maybe I'm just not tech savvy or maybe I dont game enough or wathever but I cant tell...

[Cry Havoc]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10185203-1.html?tag=smallCarouselArea.4

'Plasma's dead. Should I buy plasma?': Ask the Editors

Q: "Want to buy a new plasma but don't know that the face of plasma has changed with the withdraw of two of its top players need some advice plasma or LCD?"
-- George Carter, via e-mail.

A: Well George, personally I think there's no reason to avoid buying plasma just because Pioneer and Vizio dropped out.

In case you haven't heard, dear reader, George is referring to announcements by Pioneer and Vizio, two companies from the high end and the low end of the plasma market, respectively. Both will no longer produce plasma TVs. Last week comments by an LG exec sparked speculation that that company was next to drop plasma, although a company press release says otherwise, stating that LG will continue with its 2009 plasma releases, including the PS80 series that we selected as a Best of CES finalist.

Despite seemingly dire news for plasma, we expect LG, Samsung and especially Panasonic to sell a lot of plasmas in 2009. And I'll feel perfectly comfortable continuing to recommend people buy them, assuming they score well in reviews.

Plasma is not dead yet.

Even if it was, George, and 2009 marked the last year for the flat-panel TV technology, there's no reason not to buy one anyway. Manufacturers will continue to stand behind their products, and of course the "obsolete" and "dead" HDTVs will continue to produce beautiful pictures--just ask owners of all those "dead" Pioneer Kuros.

In fact, with the introduction of new 1080p NeoPDP plasmas by Panasonic, which promise better black levels than ever in combination with improved energy efficiency, we see no reason why the technology won't do well, especially among savvy enthusiasts. Even the entry-level entry-level 720p TC-X1 series Panasonic models are quite compelling, currently selling for as low as $800 for a 42-inch version and $950 for the 50-incher and, if last year's PX80 series is any indication, delivering great bang-for-the-buck. Ultimately, if anything can save plasma, it will be competitive pricing.

Samsung and LG, the other two plasma nameplates remaining in the U.S., also performed well last year in our tests, and for 2009 both bring some new innovations, like improved adjust-ability and Netflix streaming for LG, and an inch-thin panel, among other improvements, for Samsung.

Call me a plasma booster, but I hope the technology continues to improve and offer an alternative to LCD for years to come. I've consistently found that the best plasmas outperform the best LCDs in side-by-side comparisons, making them the de-facto choice for buyers whose primary concern is getting the best picture for the money. Check out our flat-panel comparison for all the details, and stay tuned in the next days and weeks as we review the 2009 plasma (and LCD) TVs starting to hit store shelves.

-------------------

This thread makes me rofl.

[tlongII]

It's not quite dead yet. But it's not getting better.

[Cry Havoc]

It's not quite dead yet. But it's not getting better.

You're wrong. Completely. Admit it.

[tlongII]

You're wrong. Completely. Admit it.

Actually I overwhelmingly pwned you. Fess up.

[lefty]

I read somewhere that the Mitsubichi Laser was bad for the eyes

[dirk4mvp]

lcd > plasma