Vince Carter is Clutch

[Ghost Writer]

Let me clear up this misconception that I keep seeing in the various Carter threads:

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2009/02/new_jersey_nets_vince_carter_o.html

Exhaustive research from the resourceful folks at 82games.com has come up with this revelation: Carter is clutch.

The website reports that the Nets star is second only to LeBron James in game-winning shots over the last 5 1/2 seasons (including playoffs), with 16 winners in 51 attempts. James has 17 winners in 50 attempts. Ray Allen is third (15-for-39) and Kobe Bryant is fourth (14-for-56).



http://dimemag.com/2009/02/the-best-clutch-player-in-the-game-today/

Here are some other names to consider based on these numbers: LeBron is leading the League in makes during this stretch with 17 (at 34% FG), surprisingly Vince Carter is second with 16 (31.4% FG), Ray Allen has 15 (38.5% FG), and Kobe has 14 (25% FG).


http://www.netsdaily.com/blog/?p=548

Among the new look Nets, who can fans expect to be clutch performers, those who play best in the 4th qauarter over time, with less than two minutes left and neither team ahead by more than three points?

That stats-heavy 82games.com provides annual sortable stats on clutch performances. To even out the disparity in clutch minutes, it based its numbers on a 48-minute model.

Vince Carter was easily the Nets’ best clutch player last season and not just in scoring. According to 82games.com, Carter was among the top 20 in seven different clutch categories: 15th in points per 48 minutes of clutch time and trips to the foul line, first in free throw shooting–he didn’t miss a free throw in clutch time; 16th in assists, 19th in +/-, and (shockingly) second in steals. He was also among 53 NBA players didn’t commit a turnover in clutch time.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vince+carter+game+winner&btnG=Search

Carter's game winners this season.




http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2009/02/nj_nets_roger_san_antonio.html

Mason's a keeper - starting quality on many teams, a great character guy, very efficient (12 ppg on 10 shots per game), one of the game's best 3-point shooters, and he comes very cheap ($3.5 this year, $3.8 next).

And by now, you know that he's stuck four game-winners this season, which is a pretty good indication that he's made of the right stuff.

But he's not Carter. Mason may get the same kind of shots he gets at the Alamo, where he is a perfect complementary component to a post offense, but he doesn't drive it or get to the line very often, and he would have trouble finding his shot off the bounce against bigger defenders.




http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=517424

It's no surprise that New Jersey is considering trading guard Vince Carter, even as he is having a renaissance season among a cast of very young players. Carter is averaging 20.8 points, 5.1 rebounds and 4.9 assists this year, helping take the Nets to the brink of the East's eighth playoff seed.















Owned.

[DPG21920]

Tank.

[Ghost Writer]

What is your suggestion for getting better, dolt?

If the Spurs front office can get trade for Carter, all sins are forgiven, but not forgotten.

[DPG21920]

What is your suggestion for getting better, dolt?

If the Spurs front office can get trade for Carter, all sins are forgiven, but not forgotten.

Tank.

[EricB]

Good for him.

Trade for a guy thats quit on previous teams, constantly hurt, and plays defense worse than Michael Finley.


While giving up the clutchest shooter since Stephen Jackson and the future starting 2 guard of this team.

[cool hand]

tell me the next time Carter is clutch in the finals/playoffs.......If you want clutch you need Sjax.

[FreeMason]

Unless he is 7' can rebound and block shots, he can gfh.

[Ghost Writer]

Is meth prolific in San Antonio?

Click the links and read.

Carter is very clutch.

On a contender, he'd have even more opportunities to shine.

Carter "quit" on teams, because losing makes him miserable. That said, he's been a shining example this year with the young Nets, as his maturation has led to leadership and impressive numbers.


Don't let the facts get in the way of your delusions.



P.S.

Don't throw Stephen Jackson in my face. You lil' young @sses don't realize that I invented him in this Forum and was the saddest to see him go.

[cool hand]

Ghost Writer can you imagine how many degrees you could have instead of posting 1,000,000 times on Spurstalk?

[Destro]

P.S.

Don't throw Stephen Jackson in my face. You lil' young @sses don't realize that I invented him in this Forum and was the saddest to see him go.

:rollin:owned

[Ghost Writer]

Ghost Writer can you imagine how many degrees you could have instead of posting 1,000,000 times on Spurstalk?

I have a passion for the Spurs.

And I must show the homers the light.

I can't believe people would rather stand pat than trade away some role players to get Vince fvcking Carter, while maintaining our current three best players.




Did Fiesta get rescheduled to February?

[SequSpur]

"Vince Carter doesn't play defense"

"Bruce Bowen > Vince Carter"

-timvp

[EricB]

I have a passion for the Spurs.

And I must show the homers the light.

I can't believe people would rather stand pat than trade away some role players to get Vince fvcking Carter, while maintaining our current three best players.




Did Fiesta get rescheduled to February?


I'd rather acquire a big man next to Duncan that can help against the Lakers, rather than getting a player at a position they are the deepest they ever have been at in the team's history.

[EricB]

"Vince Carter doesn't play defense"

"Bruce Bowen > Vince Carter"

-timvp


He never said that, and your lying.

[Ghost Writer]

I'd rather acquire a big man next to Duncan that can help against the Lakers, rather than getting a player at a position they are the deepest they ever have been at in the team's history.

Um, I'd agree if that were remotely true.

1. What big man is available?

2. I'll take one star at the swingman spot over a bunch of role players.




Please go back and read the first post in this thread.



Get familiar.

[DPG21920]

I must show the homers the light.


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108772&highlight=tank

[coyotes_geek]

Fine. Vince is clutch & Matt Bonner is still our starting center.

[DPG21920]

Um, I'd agree if that were remotely true.

1. What big man is available?

2. I'll take one star at the swingman spot over a bunch of role players.




Please go back and read the first post in this thread.



Get familiar.

I would rather the Spurs keep RMJ then trade for VC when he will not even add that much more the RMJ yet add on a ton more salary and just swing a trade for Boone. It is not unreasonable with all their depth that they would be willing to listen.

[EricB]

Um, I'd agree if that were remotely true.

1. What big man is available?

2. I'll take one star at the swingman spot over a bunch of role players.




Please go back and read the first post in this thread.



Get familiar.

Good you get Vince Carter.

Your still shit at the bigman position, thats what is lacking vs the Lakers.

how do you fix that??


QUESTION

[Ghost Writer]

I was hoping to get Sean Williams in the Carter deal and cultivate him.

I acknowledge that there are no saviors available in the frontcourt, unless you want to pursue Rasheed Wallace.

getting Carter would go on the premise of having better perimeter play than the Lakers, which we would, position for position.

[EricB]

I was hoping to get Sean Williams in the Carter deal and cultivate him.

I acknowledge that there are no saviors available in the frontcourt, unless you want to pursue Rasheed Wallace.

getting Carter would go on the premise of having better perimeter play than the Lakers, which we would, position for position.


If Kurt Thomas could stop Bynum from time to time and Duncan could rekindle some defensive stud magic for Gasol, then the trade would be easier to swallow.

I'm just not sold that Vince Carter makes the team that much better than it already is.

[lefty]

VC is not clutch


He is a pussy

[weebo]

Is meth prolific in San Antonio?

Click the links and read.

Carter is very clutch.

On a contender, he'd have even more opportunities to shine.

Carter "quit" on teams, because losing makes him miserable. That said, he's been a shining example this year with the young Nets, as his maturation has led to leadership and impressive numbers.


Don't let the facts get in the way of your delusions.



P.S.

Don't throw Stephen Jackson in my face. You lil' young @sses don't realize that I invented him in this Forum and was the saddest to see him go.

The Spurs don't need clutch. They need post defense and rebounding.

Get that and with TP, Manu, and TD games won't be close.

Championship :lobt2:

[Ghost Writer]

Fine. Vince is clutch & Matt Bonner is still our starting center.

Yes, that is still an issue, but the idea would be to concede the Duncan complement down low and be better on the perimeter than the Lakers.

Duncan
Carter
Manu
Parker
Bonner

is a fairer fight against

Bynum
Kobe
Odom
Fisher
Gasol


Gasol would be stretched to the perimeter to honor Bonner and I like our chances at the other spots. You bring Bowen into the mix to slow down Kobe as needed.

[Ghost Writer]

The Spurs don't need clutch. They need post defense and rebounding.

Get that and with TP, Manu, and TD games won't be close.

Championship :lobt2:

So you want Rasheed Wallace instead?

Or are you going to create this star power forward with a compueter program ala Weird Science?

[meestahmeestah]

Anyone can be clutch in front of 12,000 in mid-March when the only thing on the line is lottery positioning. Vince Carter's never been on a team that's done anything in the playoffs. I'd be willing to be he's been the highest player on his team for most of those years, too. Max-contract guys are supposed to be the best of the best, a guy that can carry a team with role players to the playoffs. The only thing Vince Carter's carried is a bad attitude and a pocketful of stats on bad teams.

However, let's assume you're right and Vince Carter is clutch. Where does that put him in the Spurs pecking order come crunch time? Still 4th. You think Vince "Vinsanity"/"Half-Man Half-Amazing" Carter thinks he's 4th on anyone's pecking order? Meanwhile, Roger Mason (who makes 20% of what Vince does) has already hit 3 game-winners this season against the biggest rivals/competitors. Mason's put himself in the position to be clutch because he knows his role and takes advantage of his situations. I don't see Vince Carter being happy for the 4th/5th spot in the Spurs' pecking order.

[DPG21920]

Lmao, the VC trade is just as realistic as the Sheed trade.

[weebo]

Rasheed Wallace ain't happening.

And we don't need a mega-star at the post either. Just someone who isn't a pussy ala Oberto, Thomas, and Bonner.

[EricB]

So you want Rasheed Wallace instead?

Or are you going to create this star power forward with a compueter program ala Weird Science?

Rasheed Wallace would make Gasol stretch to the perimiter, and would guard him perfectly in the post.

Plus Wallace is a bad ass who would bring some awesome attitude.

[j-6]

Ghost Writer can you imagine how many degrees you could have instead of posting 1,000,000 times on Spurstalk?

The other guy with a million posts has multiple degrees.

[Ghost Writer]

Rasheed Wallace would make Gasol stretch to the perimiter, and would guard him perfectly in the post.

Plus Wallace is a bad ass who would bring some awesome attitude.

I don't disagree.

The main thesis is that the Spurs can't win as currently constructed unless the Lakers sustain a major injury for the playoffs.

[coyotes_geek]

Yes, that is still an issue, but the idea would be to concede the Duncan complement down low and be better on the perimeter than the Lakers.

Duncan
Carter
Manu
Parker
Bonner

is a fairer fight against

Bynum
Kobe
Odom
Fisher
Gasol


Gasol would be stretched to the perimeter to honor Bonner and I like our chances at the other spots. You bring Bowen into the mix to slow down Kobe as needed.

Conceding the paint and flooding the court with perimeter scoring threats sounds awfully Don Nelson-esque to me.

[Shastafarian]

Conceding the paint and flooding the court with perimeter scoring threats sounds awfully Don Nelson-esque to me.

Especially when adding that other perimeter scorer who doesn't like to play defense.

[Ghost Writer]

Lmao, the VC trade is just as realistic as the Sheed trade.

Why are you laughing?

Unless a trade happens, the Spurs can't beat win the title.

Pop admitted as much.



Why don't you think about the fact that Carter or Wallace would change the dynamic in a Lakers series and give the Spurs a competitive advantage at the cost of (drumroll):

depth*.







* depth means sh1t in the playoffs as most contenders go to a 8-9 player rotation.

[DPG21920]

Why are you laughing?

Unless a trade happens, the Spurs can't beat win the title.

Pop admitted as much.



Why don't you think about the fact that Carter or Wallace would change the dynamic in a Lakers series and give the Spurs a competitive advantage at the cost of (drumroll):

depth*.








* depth means sh1t in the playoffs as most contenders go to a 8-9 player rotation.

I was laughing because you were acting like VC was attainable while Wallace was not. TP just had an interview saying he thought they could beat the Lakers.

[weebo]

I don't disagree.

The main thesis is that the Spurs can't win as currently constructed unless the Lakers sustain a major injury for the playoffs.

Yes and Pop said this much already.

Rasheed Wallace would be great, but that's not happening anytime soon. Who or what the hell do the Spurs have that the Pistons would want!?

The Spurs don't need to make a major move. Just something Nazr Mohammed-esque to help them aganist the bigger frontlines come PO time.

[EricB]

I don't disagree.

The main thesis is that the Spurs can't win as currently constructed unless the Lakers sustain a major injury for the playoffs.

Maybe.

But they showed they can beat LA as constructed here in San Antonio and that was a night where Parker had an off night and Duncan was playing half assed on defense.


I think this team is better than you give it credit for.

[weebo]

I was laughing because you were acting like VC was attainable while Wallace was not. TP just had an interview saying he thought they could beat the Lakers.


Ofcourse Tp would say that. The guy is a competitor.

What did you expect him to say?

[DPG21920]

Ofcourse Tp would say that. The guy is a competitor.

What did you expect him to say?

Pop is not a competitor?

[tp2021]

You guys, don't you know that GW is an authority on all things Spurs? He said so himself! So it must be true.

[weebo]

Pop is not a competitor?

Pop is not on the court trying to hit shots. All a coach can do is coach. Players make plays--there in lies the difference.

[Biggems]

actually I want Brook Lopez. He reminds me of Duncan in so many ways. In fact, Duncan is one of the players he has designed his game after.

I dont want Carter. I will however, take Carter if it means we can steal Lopez from the Nets......I mean they did steal Harris from Dallas. They will be getting Mason, Hill, and a future 1st from us. I see no reason why we can't have Lopez added to the trade.

C - Bonner, Lopez, Ian
PF - Duncan, Thomas, Oberto (would come back after being cut)
SF - Carter, Bowen (would come back after being cut)
SG - Finley, Manu, Hairston
PG - Parker, Vaughn

[Slinkyman]

Pop is not a competitor?

Pop has the authority to change the current line up with trades tony does not.

Also, to those that don't think Carter is a huge upgrade over RMJ what happened in the second game against the lakers? why was Mason completely invisible? That game was a sign of what will happen come playoff time when teams Defense tighten up and they will take away those open looks mason has been getting just like they take away the easy lay ups Parker gets which is why having Carter would be a huge upgrade. Someone else on the floor that can not only hit 3 but create their shot when teams take away those open looks.

[Heat Miser]

:tu

[Austin_Toros]

i don't see the spurs as a team who would make a major move and stuff up what they got going now. as far as i'm concerned, carter and 'sheed will not be coming to san ant soon.

I can't help but think that adding Carter would be less helpful as Mason is a role player.
Carter is clutch, no doubt, but is he any more clutch that Mason has proven to be?


Ghost Writer can you imagine how many degrees you could have instead of posting 1,000,000 times on Spurstalk?
:lmao:lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

Good you get Vince Carter.

Your still shit at the bigman position, thats what is lacking vs the Lakers.

how do you fix that??


QUESTION

We can't fix that this year. Maybe next year when Rasheed is a FA and we sign him for the midlevel. At best we can trade for a big that would be good enough to be our 4th big on the depth chart. With that said improving in other ways like Vince Carter would improve our team. Take the homer Mason goggles off.

[MaNu4Tres]

Good for him.

Trade for a guy thats quit on previous teams, constantly hurt, and plays defense worse than Michael Finley.


While giving up the clutchest shooter since Stephen Jackson and the future starting 2 guard of this team.

Take the homer glasses off please. The way I see it is this. Mason is a great shooter. He just doesn't have that triple threat ability. Not only do most of Mason's shots come off being wide open from the big 3, but the only time he can score when putting it on the floor is when we are playing a lazy team and mason gets a screen for a one dribble pull up( I don't want to hear about Mason being more efficient because Carter has to create at least 90 percent of his own shots, unlike Mason who gets wide open looks and only has to worry about shooting). Also if you have watched the games, whenever Mason tries to create and penetrate its usually two points the other way or simply a turnover. With Carter not only are we getting a 40 percent 3 point shooter back, but we are also getting a player that can put it on the floor and create for Tony Manu and Tim. If you notice Finley, Bowen, and Mason all seem to struggle overall against the great teams in the league because when parker and manu do penetrate and kick out, the opposition tends to sprint out to our shooters and make Mason, Finley, Bowen put it on the floor which is something they simply can not do effectively. Put in Carter we don't have that problem. If there's a way we can get Carter without Hill and include mahimni or Splitter I'm all for it. But if we have to get rid of Georgie then we have to make this trade. Come Playoff time I highly doubt Pop would insert Vaughn in a tight series to back up Tony. I'm pretty sure he would turn to Manu at back up point if we do get Vince Carter. All in all I believe we have to make this move.

[EricB]

I don't want no quitters on my teams.

End thread/

[MaNu4Tres]

when has he quit? In Toronto? When he obvously was tired of losing and wanted out? To use that to justify Mason> Carter is just dumb in my eyes. Vince has never had a team worth a shit around him. The one time he had a decent team was when he nearly beat the Sixers in 2001 to go to the finals. Saying hes a quitter is an irrational dumb statement because you and I both know with Tim and Pop telling him and describing how the Larry O'brien trophy tastes Vince will go to war for this team. Just like how Rodman did for the Bulls.

[Rogue]

off topic, we have already had enough discussion about spurs and trades.



this thread is "Vince Carter is Clutch":http://www.nba.com/media/rockets/hp_bottomAdsV21.jpg:lmao

[Ghost Writer]

Especially when adding that other perimeter scorer who doesn't like to play defense.

Don Nelson-esque?

Um, what do you think the Spurs are attempting to do now with their current players?

Trading for Carter upgrades Mason in the starting 5, you fvcking imbeciles.

[Ghost Writer]

And who cares about degrees?

I have a college degree from a private school and I paid off all my loans.

Bill Gates never went to college.

Higher education does not matter.

You homers have a PhDs. Player hater degrees.

The thread proves you wrong about Carter being clutch.

Clearly he is clutch as supported by statistical facts.

Carter may have quit on the lowly Raptors early in his career, but he is being lauded for helping lead a horsesh1t Nets team to within reach of the playoffs.


How can you discredit him for not winning playoff games, when he has not been on a serious contender with any frequency?

The stupidest complaint was that Carter makes too much money. Who are you hoping to sign as a free agent by the time Carter's contract is up, you fools?



Y'all are haters. And misinformed.

[2YiZ]

But he gets injured sooooo much




AND HE QUIT ON THE RAPTORS AND NETTSSSSSS.

[2YiZ]

Especially when adding that other perimeter scorer who doesn't like to play defense.
3rd most annoying misconception of Carter

[Ghost Writer]

People are making slanderous lies up about Carter.

He is not a bad defender at all.

He hated losing on the Raptors. He stuck around longer than McGrady.


It's been years since he acted that way and he's been a veteran leader for the Nets this year, who have been clearing cap for 2010.



I hate you homers.

[2YiZ]

People are making slanderous lies up about Carter.

He is not a bad defender at all.

He hated losing on the Raptors. He stuck around longer than McGrady.


It's been years since he acted that way and he's been a veteran leader for the Nets this year, who have been clearing cap for 2010.



I hate you homers.
He invited all of the players to his house during the summer to practice. Everyone showed up but Yi, who was busy in China.

But yeah, Vince Carter kills dogs and goes on biweekly roid-rage induced killing sprees through the town.

[Ghost Writer]

Most of the Spurs homers here carry extreme prejudice and are unforgiving.

They believe in stereotypes and are biased.

They think Carter is still a dunking machine and Ron Artest is going to jump in the stands at any given moment.



You shove stats and performance and articles in their face and they make up more lies and innuendo instead of thanking you for being course corrected.

[MaNu4Tres]

Ghost Writer I'm with you on the Carter bandwagon. There's too many homers on this site.

[SequSpur]

Most of the Spurs homers here carry extreme prejudice and are unforgiving.

They believe in stereotypes and are biased.

They think Carter is still a dunking machine and Ron Artest is going to jump in the stands at any given moment.



You shove stats and performance and articles in their face and they make up more lies and innuendo instead of thanking you for being course corrected.

yeah, but Bonner is the best 3 pt shooter in the NBA dude and has a ring.. dude, you don't give up that for a player like vince carter...

:lol

[2YiZ]

Thank god Thorn is in the Nets FO. The package of Mason+Hill isn't enough to net Carter.

[Rogue]

Thank god Thorn is in the Nets FO. The package of Mason+Hill isn't enough to net Carter.
for sure, spurs still have to add some garbage contracts to match carter's salary. How about Ginobili? :lol

[Ghost Writer]

yeah, but Bonner is the best 3 pt shooter in the NBA dude and has a ring.. dude, you don't give up that for a player like vince carter...

:lol

Everyone loves Bonner now. Wait until the playoffs when Opie can't buy a bucket and blows every defensive assignment.

I love Mason and think he's got nerves of steel, but he is no Vince fvcking Carter.

[2YiZ]

actually I want Brook Lopez. He reminds me of Duncan in so many ways. In fact, Duncan is one of the players he has designed his game after.

I dont want Carter. I will however, take Carter if it means we can steal Lopez from the Nets......I mean they did steal Harris from Dallas. They will be getting Mason, Hill, and a future 1st from us. I see no reason why we can't have Lopez added to the trade.

C - Bonner, Lopez, Ian
PF - Duncan, Thomas, Oberto (would come back after being cut)
SF - Carter, Bowen (would come back after being cut)
SG - Finley, Manu, Hairston
PG - Parker, Vaughn

:rollin:rollin:rollin

That's as constructive as honest feedback to this post is going to get.