AP: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits in Venezuela

[sabar]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_referendum

[FreeMason]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20090216/i/r2524088304.jpg?x=400&y=290&q=85&sig=SFhxB48W_eXG8XX8TbDeSA--
http://www.lookatmeshirts.com/uploadedfiles/real/84_ymca%202m.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/11i0303.jpg

http://www.lincolnps.org/Middle%20School/team%20pictures/Images/YMCA%20dance.jpg

[spurster]

That's terrible for Venezuela.

[smeagol]

People in Latam are ignorant. There is no other way to explain this.

[NFGIII]

Well the people have spoken and we will now sit back and see what the future brings, metaphorically speaking. Historically socialism hasn't lived up to it's promises but there is always a first time. I believe that "first time" is far in the future. Presently people on a grand/national scale aren't willing to give up their hopes, dreams and aspirations to the whole of society(ie...ruling government so that they can redistribute the wealth to all) in order for everyone to prosper equally. We're too selfish at this point in time, which neccessarily isn't either right or wrong but it is what it is.

[FreeMason]

Presently people on a grand/national scale aren't willing to give up their hopes, dreams and aspirations to the whole of society(ie...ruling government so that they can redistribute the wealth to all) in order for everyone to prosper equally.And Thank God for that. :toast

The bolded part is a pipe dream and nothing more, mainly because the ruling government will always be in it solely for the power and money. Even if that's not the case, every man should benefit from his own hard work to advance past his peers.

It's got nothing to do with us being "selfish". The simple fact is man turns into a power-hungry prick when enticed by power/control and is not capable of taking everyone's money and distributing it back out. Why give the government more when they can't even handle properly what they steal already.

[DarkReign]

And Thank God for that. :toast

The bolded part is a pipe dream and nothing more, mainly because the ruling government will always be in it solely for the power and money. Even if that's not the case, every man should benefit from his own hard work to advance past his peers.

It's got nothing to do with us being "selfish". The simple fact is man turns into a power-hungry prick when enticed by power/control and is not capable of taking everyone's money and distributing it back out. Why give the government more when they can't even handle properly what they steal already.

Cant say I disagree. Utopian socialism is a fucking pipe dream cooked up by double-talking cult of personalities in their sometimes successful attempt to convince the masses theyre different than their predecessors.

Its all bullshit. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It was true when it was coined and it will be true far, FAR into the future.

[JoeChalupa]

Damn

[sabar]

Removing checks against tyranny is retarded for any people to do to themselves.

Chavez is now president for life and a defacto dictator.

Times like this actually make me appreciate a party-based political system as the opposing party will never allow the other to gain power like this.

The developed world learned a lot from the tyranny of monarchies and dictatorships, too bad the developing world has not. They will never be able to trust in their governments until they learn how to make one. People frequently slam the United States and similar countries for low voter turnout, and yet we are one of the most free nations if not the most free. That says a lot. That says that we dont even need to go to the polls and whomever is elected won't be able to dominate us.

[NFGIII]

And Thank God for that. :toast

The bolded part is a pipe dream and nothing more, mainly because the ruling government will always be in it solely for the power and money. Even if that's not the case, every man should benefit from his own hard work to advance past his peers.

It's got nothing to do with us being "selfish". The simple fact is man turns into a power-hungry prick when enticed by power/control and is not capable of taking everyone's money and distributing it back out. Why give the government more when they can't even handle properly what they steal already.

Maybe that's matter of semantics but people are driven by their own self interest IMHO. If that is taken away by the socialistic concept of equal sharing where all get together in a "village" and work in a worker's utopia then the game as we know it is over. I really can't see the Gates/Dells/Rockerfellers/Vanderbilts/Fords...etc busting their butt to get an equal share of the pie. Even the most admirable of all was Hershey IMO and he did it for the money and the financial security that it would bring to him and his family. What he did after making all that money is what I would hope most capitalists would like to emulate. But most likely ... aka the Soviet Union... they as most will stop working as hard since it doesn't pay for them to do so.

[Winehole23]

Chavez is now president for life and a defacto dictator.This is slightly overstated, but the door is now open for this possibility.

There was a bit of a rush on this referendum b/c of low oil prices, high inflation in Venezuela and the incipient global depression.

When the depression hits poor Venezuelans in the belly, it will also hit Chavez's political legitimacy. The graveyards are full of people who are great,august and indispensable -- some day, it will be Chavez's turn to join them. Just like Castro, when he dies, his revolution will die with him.

[micca]

Well the people have spoken and we will now sit back and see what the future brings, metaphorically speaking. Historically socialism hasn't lived up to it's promises but there is always a first time. I believe that "first time" is far in the future. Presently people on a grand/national scale aren't willing to give up their hopes, dreams and aspirations to the whole of society(ie...ruling government so that they can redistribute the wealth to all) in order for everyone to prosper equally. We're too selfish at this point in time, which neccessarily isn't either right or wrong but it is what it is.
What in the world makes you think the people of Venezuela have spoken? As another great socialist Joesph Stalin once siad"it doesn't matter who votes ,but who counts the votes".I don't think for a minute the people of Venezuela spoke nor will they till Chavez dies. The real interesting thing about Chavez is that the American left and many Democrats legitamized this knukle dragging troglydite as a statesman,and now they, and Chavez's slips are showing.Alot of the same people who championed Chavez are supporters of Obama. Look where the great promise of a worker's paradise, has lead once agian.... to barbaric suppresion of liberty, and the booted heel grinding down the human soul.All in the name of a paternal all embracing all loving leader.Thugacrosy.

[NFGIII]

What in the world makes you think the people of Venezuela have spoken? As another great socialist Joesph Stalin once siad"it doesn't matter who votes ,but who counts the votes".I don't think for a minute the people of Venezuela spoke nor will they till Chavez dies.

figure of speech and not to imply that the people of Venezula have "truly spoken" - more a statement that implies that is what we have now so let's see what happens next.


The real interesting thing about Chavez is that the American left and many Democrats legitamized this knukle dragging troglydite as a statesman,and now they, and Chavez's slips are showing.Alot of the same people who championed Chavez are supporters of Obama. Look where the great promise of a worker's paradise, has lead once agian.... to barbaric suppresion of liberty, and the booted heel grinding down the human soul.All in the name of a paternal all embracing all loving leader.Thugacrosy.

As they did with Allende and Ortega and any other one of their kind to gain power. And the fact that it is degenerating into this kind of society should be a warning to others. But memories are short and this experiment in a worker's paradise will happen elsewhere. The very thought that people can band together and make a society free from any and all forms fo human depravity will always be appealing to some.

[Crookshanks]

The real interesting thing about Chavez is that the American left and many Democrats legitamized this knukle dragging troglydite as a statesman,and now they, and Chavez's slips are showing.Alot of the same people who championed Chavez are supporters of Obama.

Yep - and Obama's State Department is now congratulating Venezuela!

US urges respect for democracy in Venezuela


Hail Hugo: Chavez Wins Vote to Scrap Term Limits in Venezuela

The United States Tuesday welcomed Venezuela's "civic" referendum lifting term limits for the president and all politicians, but urged support for democracy and tolerance in the country.

"We congratulate the civic and participatory spirit of the millions of Venezuelans who exercized their democratic right to vote," State Department spokesman Noel Clay told AFP.

Venezuelans on Sunday voted 54 percent in favor of constitutional reform sought by President Hugo Chavez to run for unlimited reelection, in his bid to consolidate his brand of socialism critics compare to Cuba's communism.

Clay said that after the vote, "it is important that elected officials now focus on governing democratically and addressing the issues of concern to the Venezuelan people."

"We encourage all sectors of Venezuelan society to respect the diversity of use (of the vote) that is the strength of a pluralistic democracy," he added.

The US reaction to Venezuela's vote comes uncharacteristically before the complete tally has been announced. The country's electoral board has issued its first, 54-46 percent vote result with only 94 percent of precincts reporting.

US-Venezuelan relations have been steadily deteriorating since Chavez first took office in 1999. In September, they took a turn for the worse after Venezuela expelled the US ambassador and the United States responded in kind.

========
Secretly they're probably cheering because they want the same thing for Obama.

[ChumpDumper]

So the board Republicans are against democracy now.

Sounds about right.

[johnsmith]

So the board Republicans are against democracy now.

Sounds about right.

No, we're not.

[clambake]

he's not your typical democratic leader that the US is used to owning.

republicans wouldn't give a shit what he does if he were in their back pocket.

[burntorange]

Assuming fair elections, who cares about this? If they want him, they deserve him.

[ChumpDumper]

No, we're not.One exception noted.

I haven't read anything about the election's being rigged, so they can do what they want. I think Chavez is an idiot, but hey, so was Bush.

[RandomGuy]

Chavez will hum along until low oil prices cause him to reneg on his promises and he has to institute austerity measures.

Which he will, of course, blame on the US. :rolleyes

[DAF86]

Chavez is no where close to beign a favorite of mine, and I don't aprove the whole "scrap term limits" thing but I think this vote reflects how the quality of life has improved in Venezuela since his arrival and it also proves that Socialism in the right amount is the best way to go.

[angrydude]

Chavez is no where close to beign a favorite of mine, and I don't aprove the whole "scrap term limits" thing but I think this vote reflects how the quality of life has improved in Venezuela since his arrival and it also proves that Socialism in the right amount is the best way to go.


well, it proves socialism in the right amount is more popular than what they had.


keep dreaming though.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

People in Latam are ignorant. There is no other way to explain this.

Dude, don't you realize the beauty of democracy from the viewpoint of the politicians is that most voters are total jackass idiots who are uninformed, and vote mostly for superficial reasons?

I mean, I consider myself relatively informed as far as the voting bloc of america goes, and I still almost got swayed to vote for McCain based on Palin's tits alone.

Forget about your bias against me, and think about that for a moment.

Those who overlook this fact, are those whose vaginas swell to unprecedented bloadage levels when trying to rationalize Hamas, Chavez, or other "dubious" democratic outcomes. That is the missing link, and when you consider it, these scenarios always make sense.

I, for one, think Chavez is great. He not only is great entertainment, but who else in our near abroad fills the role of "bad guy" ? He's like a neutered, less dangerous Saddam Hussein. You can't treat the continent like we have and not expect backlash. He is a condensed materialization of that backlash. Let him thrive. Keep him close. Nothing will ever come of his antics (that affects US, and quite frankly, I could give a damn about Venezuelans).

I can hear you already..."But Russia spent millions upon millions of dollars to conduct naval exercises in their waters!!!!"

lol.

[Obstructed_View]

Dude, don't you realize the beauty of democracy from the viewpoint of the politicians is that most voters are total jackass idiots who are uninformed, and vote mostly for superficial reasons?


http://www.beaupre.com/blog/userfiles/Image/obama-hope.jpg

[whottt]

Chavez will hum along until low oil prices cause him to reneg on his promises and he has to institute austerity measures.

Which he will, of course, blame on the US. :rolleyes


And I'll immediately trust Obama more once that happens. I hope they do keep blaming the US under his Presidency...he'll serve America better....and that's much more of a concern to me than whether or not a bunch of third world assholes like us.

[RandomGuy]

And I'll immediately trust Obama more once that happens.

I am a bit dubious of that. You seem like the kind of guy who makes up his mind and never changes it or lets new information affect those beliefs.

BUT

I'll take you at your word.

[LockBeard]

Chavez is no where close to beign a favorite of mine, and I don't aprove the whole "scrap term limits" thing but I think this vote reflects how the quality of life has improved in Venezuela since his arrival and it also proves that Socialism in the right amount is the best way to go.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/fail-owned-livestock-fail.jpg

[whottt]

I am a bit dubious of that. You seem like the kind of guy who makes up his mind and never changes it or lets new information affect those beliefs.

And you'd definitely be wrong about that. I must have mentioned on this forum about 10 thousand times that I was quite possibly the most anti-Bush person in the US in 2000, and I hadn't voted Republican in 16 years when I did so in 2004. I didn't like a damn thing about Bush...I didn't like him, I didn't like his politics, I didn't like his brain....I didn't like his backers, and I didn't like his associates.

But things changed, the situation changed, the world changed. Some of it because of Bush himself unfortunately becoming President, but not all of it. So I changed my mind because the situation changed.....although I imagine that's probably not a direction you consider to be an open minded one...

But to me it certainly was.


I find Obama to be like one million times more likeable than Bush was...unfortunately I find his likely backers, associations and what I percieve to be his politics far more alarming than Bush's ever were. And I never thought Bush was naive like I do Obama.



BUT

I'll take you at your word.

Thanks...I appreciate it.

[smeagol]

Chavez is no where close to beign a favorite of mine, and I don't aprove the whole "scrap term limits" thing but I think this vote reflects how the quality of life has improved in Venezuela since his arrival and it also proves that Socialism in the right amount is the best way to go.

:lmao


That cracked me up . . .

[smeagol]

I, for one, think Chavez is great. He not only is great entertainment, but who else in our near abroad fills the role of "bad guy" ? He's like a neutered, less dangerous Saddam Hussein. You can't treat the continent like we have and not expect backlash. He is a condensed materialization of that backlash. Let him thrive. Keep him close. Nothing will ever come of his antics (that affects US, and quite frankly, I could give a damn about Venezuelans).

I care about Venezuelans, hence my concearn about a neverending Chavez presidency.

You, OTOH, only care about what goes on in your country. Sad.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Actually, I do care about the world. It's just my opinion that the average venezuelan isn't an important variable when considering the state of the world.

Dude...they VOTED for this to go down. How about you just be happy they have a vote at all? lol...

Besides...caring about global human rights and being giant flower-peddling pussies was something we tried under Clinton. Look where that got us.

[DAF86]

Besides...caring about global human rights and being giant flower-peddling pussies was something we tried under Clinton. Look where that got us.

And where did caring about stealing oil and beign a giant bomb-dropping jerks get you?

[Winehole23]

And where did caring about stealing oil and beign a giant bomb-dropping jerks get you?Flip side of the same coin IMO. Humanitarianism and wars of intervention go together.

[WalterBenitez]

People in Latam are ignorant. There is no other way to explain this.

I wouldn't call ignorant, rather I'd say that demagogy is killing our countries, consider how many people that lives in the zone went to university.

Anyhow the bad part of democracy is that my vote only worth 1 vote :depressed

[Josepatches_]

One exception noted.

I haven't read anything about the election's being rigged, so they can do what they want. I think Chavez is an idiot, but hey, so was Bush.

+1

They are free to vote what they want.Not what you want.