If further proof was needed..

[Muser]

Nate robinson - 5 foot 9 PG - 10 Rebounds

Mat Bonner - 6 foot 10 C - 8 Rebounds


Fuck the Vince carter talk, get a big man.

[Spursfan092120]

I'm not the begging kind..but I have to say..as a lifelong Spurs fan...please...PLEASE pick up a big. We need one if we plan on getting a :lobt2: And I plan on getting one.

[HarlemHeat37]

big man doesn't change anything tonight..

Kurt was fine..

the perimeter D was the problem..

[Spurs Brazil]

the perimeter D was the problem..

Again.

How many games Pop will wait to put Bruce back in the starting 5

[HarlemHeat37]

I've been asking for more Bowen and less Finley for over a month now..I don't know what it'll take for it to happen..I understand he's saving him for the playoffs, but we need defensive chemistry..

[xtremesteven33]

The defense will be pathetic as long as you have Bonner and Finley getting most of the minutes.

Wait till Bowen and a defensive big get in the lineup.

[Spursfan092120]

Again.

How many games Pop will wait to put Bruce back in the starting 5
Exactly. I know he wanted to get "young" and get more offense and whatnot, but damn...when Bruce gets hot on the perimeter, he can score too..Bruce has started during our last 3 title seasons...it's a formula that works..stick with it.

[LockBeard]

There really is no hope in reaching the finals without a 2nd quality big.

Seriously. None.

[Texas_Ranger]

I don't know why didn't Kurt return in the game...He was playing really good...But no, we needed Bonner who did shit in there. Fuck this!

GET WALLACE!!!

[lurker23]

Nate robinson - 5 foot 9 PG - 10 Rebounds

Mat Bonner - 6 foot 10 C - 8 Rebounds


Fuck the Vince carter talk, get a big man.

I didn't see the game, but guards getting rebounds is generally the fault of the other guards/small forwards, not the big men. As for Bonner, I think everyone would love it if he averaged 8 rebounds per game; that number is not a problem.

All this being said, I do think the Spurs need another big man above any other needs, but the numbers used to start this thread aren't a reason.

[SenorSpur]

Exactly. I know he wanted to get "young" and get more offense and whatnot, but damn...when Bruce gets hot on the perimeter, he can score too..Bruce has started during our last 3 title seasons...it's a formula that works..stick with it.

Bowen PT wasn't the issue. It's the zero net results we get from Finley, on so many nights. When his perimeter J isn't there, he's worthless on both ends. Yet the only one who doesn't seem to see this is Pop.

[jermaine]

we couldnt score down the strech either. Thats where Carter comes in!

[coyotes_geek]

big man doesn't change anything tonight..

Kurt was fine..

the perimeter D was the problem..

Kurt was fine. But you can't play Kurt 35+ minutes every game. Duncan is a defensive presence in the paint, Thomas to a lesser extent is as well. But those two are it. The Spurs need another big who can fill some of those minutes that Duncan and Thomas can't play.

[ElNono]

Nate robinson - 5 foot 9 PG - 10 Rebounds

Mat Bonner - 6 foot 10 C - 8 Rebounds


We actually out-rebounded the Knicks overall. The problem tonight was actually perimeter defense.

[Ice009]

Maybe Pop is thinking about trading Bonner and just wanted to get another look at his D at the end of the game?

[Josepatches_]

We actually out-rebounded the Knicks overall. The problem tonight was actually perimeter defense.


That's not difficult against the Knicks.The opposing teams had more rebounds every night.
They average more rebounds per game than us only because they shoot more than any other team of the league. (7 more FGA pg than us)

[Manu-of-steel]

We actually out-rebounded the Knicks overall. The problem tonight was actually perimeter defense.

+1. perimeter defense sucked. nate getting offensive boards meant we did not boxed him out well.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kurt was fine. But you can't play Kurt 35+ minutes every game. Duncan is a defensive presence in the paint, Thomas to a lesser extent is as well. But those two are it. The Spurs need another big who can fill some of those minutes that Duncan and Thomas can't play.

we definitely need another big, I'm obviously for it..but it's overrated around here..

another big isn't going to change our poor D..it starts on the perimeter..

[underdawg]

we definitely need another big, I'm obviously for it..but it's overrated around here..

another big isn't going to change our poor D..it starts on the perimeter..

It is overrated to a certain extent, but there is some meat to the argument. Was Boston's success against the Lakers last year more because of their perimeter defense or their length in the paint? We've been abused in the paint all year and while I'll concede that Oberto and Thomas can help, they're still overmatched against tall, athletic players. Not to mention that it seems opposing guards get to the rim too much against us this year (not just saying that based off tonight's game.)

[HarlemHeat37]

of course that's true..but there's a strong possibility that we won't be able to acquire another significant big..so we need to improve within the team, and it starts on the perimeter..it's not like we don't have the pieces..

[timaios]

we couldnt score down the strech either. Thats where Carter comes in!

That's where Manu comes in!

[dastrey]

This season shows us how important of a role Bruce Bowen played the past several years. Perimeter defense was always a constant. It is more important(and easier) to find a defensive presence on the perimeter than it is to find a defensive anchor who will probably have stone hands.

[underdawg]

of course that's true..but there's a strong possibility that we won't be able to acquire another significant big..so we need to improve within the team, and it starts on the perimeter..it's not like we don't have the pieces..

I don't know the parameters of what a "significant big" is, but I'll take one that is quick enough to stay in front of taller players and help on weakside defense. I have no clue if Pops could fit that role, but given available trade options with what we have to trade I'd say it's worth a try. I could be wrong, but it seems our perimeter defense is suffering right now because of the sagging defense that we're playing while trying to help in the paint.

[coyotes_geek]

It is overrated to a certain extent, but there is some meat to the argument. Was Boston's success against the Lakers last year more because of their perimeter defense or their length in the paint? We've been abused in the paint all year and while I'll concede that Oberto and Thomas can help, they're still overmatched against tall, athletic players. Not to mention that it seems opposing guards get to the rim too much against us this year (not just saying that based off tonight's game.)

I'm with you. In fact I think there's more meat to this than to the arguement about the perimeter. That's not to say that the perimeter D isn't a concern, nor that playing Bruce an extra 10-15 minutes a night wouldn't help things immensely. But I do have to wonder whether what we're seeing happening out on the perimeter this year is really the perimeter defenders being worse than years past or if it is just us noticing it more because there's no one under the basket erasing defensive mistakes made outside?

I have a hard time believing that Tony Parker is a worse defender today than he was yesterday. I also have a hard time believing that Roger Mason isn't as good a defender as Brent Barry. I think Manu is the same (i.e. good), and I think it's hard to guage Finley because he spends a lot of his time having to play defense down low against big 3's/small 4's. All this is JMO, but looking at this I have a hard time saying we're worse on the perimeter than we were previously. So the problem has to be with the lack of a second big.

One thing is for certain, the lack of a second big has certainly limited Tim Duncan's defensive influence on the game. Tim can't freelance on defense nearly as much as he has in the past because he's having to guard opponents primary frontcourt scorers, and teams are finding it easier to pull Tim out of the paint and just run plays on the opposite side of the court. It's no coincidence that Tim's blocks per game dropped significantly once Rasho left.

[HarlemHeat37]

so do you guys consider Fab Oberto to be an "interior presence"? because we were an elite defensive team with him starting..he averaged 0.2 blocks per game last season..

[coyotes_geek]

Is Oberto a better interior presence than Matt Bonner?

[Thomas82]

D starts in the paint! We were a great defensive team because our ability to have 2 shot blockers in the game at all times, when one is forced into a pick and roll the other has his back, this year Tim is being baited away from the basket cause teams know bonner will stop no one down low.

The other thing having 2 bigs does is allow our wings and TP to play close D instead of sagging off, by playing close you force your man into shooting off the dribble or force him into shot blockers. This year with Bonner starting, teams are getting better looks from all over and its killing us.

Pops needs to make a deal, this is not a contender right now, and to waste TDs last couple years hoping for a top end player to come to SA in 2010 is foolish. Make a deal to get another player, find ways to get a first rounder and lets try to win over the next two years lets not wait till 2010 when TD is 35.


Excellent post.

[HarlemHeat37]

sure..but if Oberto really makes a difference, why isn't he getting more time on the floor? Pop obviously isn't an idiot..using your logic, Oberto can't be that much worse than last year, can he?..

I'm not shitting on you or anything, I respect your opinion..but I don't really believe that Oberto is the difference between being 3rd in interior D last year, to 15th this year..

[underdawg]

so do you guys consider Fab Oberto to be an "interior presence"? because we were an elite defensive team with him starting..he averaged 0.2 blocks per game last season..

Honestly, I don't know what the difference is this season. I don't remember Oberto being exposed as much as he is this year in regards to interior defense - he might still be hurt or not up to speed because of his injury. That said, blocks aren't as important to me as being able to consistently defend players down low. Camby's a great example of that - he gets a lot of weakside/off ball blocks, but I'm not sure he's that great of a post up defender. Kurt has had some good games this year where he's been able to defend athletic big men, but he's also had some games where he's looked slow. I don't think it would hurt to bring in a younger more athletic big (i.e. Pops) to add to that rotation. Do it now to see if it will work.

[Russ]

I miss the sight of Duncan and [2d big] jumping up under the basket in unison -- like a synchronized movable brick wall blocking any interior shot attempt. The effect was more than stopping one shot in one possession. More like a dunk which changes the whole psychology and confidence level of the opponent.

It's hard to imagine the Spurs winning it all this year without another interior defensive presence.

[DrHouse]

You gotta give to get and when you don't have anything to give you aren't going to get anything back .

[Thomas82]

I'm with you. In fact I think there's more meat to this than to the arguement about the perimeter. That's not to say that the perimeter D isn't a concern, nor that playing Bruce an extra 10-15 minutes a night wouldn't help things immensely. But I do have to wonder whether what we're seeing happening out on the perimeter this year is really the perimeter defenders being worse than years past or if it is just us noticing it more because there's no one under the basket erasing defensive mistakes made outside?

I have a hard time believing that Tony Parker is a worse defender today than he was yesterday. I also have a hard time believing that Roger Mason isn't as good a defender as Brent Barry. I think Manu is the same (i.e. good), and I think it's hard to guage Finley because he spends a lot of his time having to play defense down low against big 3's/small 4's. All this is JMO, but looking at this I have a hard time saying we're worse on the perimeter than we were previously. So the problem has to be with the lack of a second big.

One thing is for certain, the lack of a second big has certainly limited Tim Duncan's defensive influence on the game. Tim can't freelance on defense nearly as much as he has in the past because he's having to guard opponents primary frontcourt scorers, and teams are finding it easier to pull Tim out of the paint and just run plays on the opposite side of the court. It's no coincidence that Tim's blocks per game dropped significantly once Rasho left.

This is definately on point.

[TDMVPDPOY]

so do you guys consider Fab Oberto to be an "interior presence"? because we were an elite defensive team with him starting..he averaged 0.2 blocks per game last season..

what interior presence you talkin about? even a fukn elephant can do a better job at that then him......fabio doesnt even jump....

[The Truth #6]

I think if Tony didn't have an off game we would have won. Being in NYC, and with Eva around, he probably went out late and had a hangover. Or at least he sure played like he had a hangover. The perimeter D is average overall but could have been better even with the players we had.

Early on it seemed apparent that neither Parker nor Finley had much to offer. I would have liked to have seen more Hill and some Malik. It's hard to say if they would have played better but a different approach would have been nice. Malik could easily have defended better than Finley.

[Borosai]

The Spurs' D sucks: that is the problem. Yeah, they could use another interior defender, but from the games I've seen, they're just lazy on the perimeter and rotations.

Parker isn't going to suck that badly on a regular basis: he shot something like 25%. What? Manu (hopefully) won't be hurt on a regular basis (really?).

If the playoffs started tomorrow, oh the embarrassment! Luckily they don't.

[coyotes_geek]

sure..but if Oberto really makes a difference, why isn't he getting more time on the floor? Pop obviously isn't an idiot..using your logic, Oberto can't be that much worse than last year, can he?..

I'm not shitting on you or anything, I respect your opinion..but I don't really believe that Oberto is the difference between being 3rd in interior D last year, to 15th this year..

It's all good. This is just a solid basketball debate, no one is shitting on anyone.

As for Oberto, you're right. Even though he is better than Bonner I can't say that his presence is that big of a factor. If it were, he'd be playing. But then who's the culprit? Obviously Bruce playing less minutes is going to be a factor, but he's still been getting 20 minutes a game. Is the 10 minutes less that he's getting this year compared to last enough to fall from 3rd to 15th? Is Tony really a worse defender? Maybe I've just been underrating his defense in years past, but I haven't noticed some big dropoff because I never thought he was all that great at it to begin with. If we had to pin the perimeter woes on specific players, who would you target?

[cherylsteele]

Nate robinson - 5 foot 9 PG - 10 Rebounds

Mat Bonner - 6 foot 10 C - 8 Rebounds


Fuck the Vince carter talk, get a big man.
Such as?
Everybody says we need this and we need that but never bring up names nor do they give any good trade ideas. when they do bring up names and trades it is almost always a pipe dream type scenario.

[Ditty]

like they say it's better to lose to a team that we might not see in may or june

thursday trade or no trade we got to beat detroit if we don't then i won't bother with this team until hurtobili comes back

tonight game reminded me of how the spurs played at the begging of the year this team needs to learn how to play D or we shouldn't even show up to the confernce finals embarassing losses

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm not targeting a specific player..IMO it has to do with Bowen getting less minutes, playing bad defensive players more minutes, and a clear lack of defensive chemistry..

our best defensive stretch of the season was easily the 5-2 stretch without Tony and Manu..looking at those games, and then looking at games against the same teams with Tony and Manu, you see a clear difference in defensive results..

I don't buy the argument that teams played worse against us because they expected less of us without them, because most of the teams weren't good or great..

I'm not trying to make an argument out of this, I'm just pointing it out..Bowen played more at the time, but it really might have been due to more effort and desperation to save the season..it's also possible that the team developed a nice defensive chemistry, because we had a clear defensive drop off after the return of Tony and Manu..

it's just really tough to figure it out..it's not entirely due to the big man, since Oberto was enough for us to be elite..like you said coyote, obviously the same guys as last year couldn't have fell off so quickly..it could really be the chemistry, but we'll have to see once Pop shakes things up, assuming he will..

[SenorSpur]

It is overrated to a certain extent, but there is some meat to the argument. Was Boston's success against the Lakers last year more because of their perimeter defense or their length in the paint? We've been abused in the paint all year and while I'll concede that Oberto and Thomas can help, they're still overmatched against tall, athletic players. Not to mention that it seems opposing guards get to the rim too much against us this year (not just saying that based off tonight's game.)

We saw this on full display in the WCF series versus the Fakers. Duncan was literally going 2 against 1 on both ends because of the limited amount of help he was getting from the Spurs bigs. Unless he gets help, the same fate awaits.

[SenorSpur]

It's all good. This is just a solid basketball debate, no one is shitting on anyone.

As for Oberto, you're right. Even though he is better than Bonner I can't say that his presence is that big of a factor. If it were, he'd be playing. But then who's the culprit? Obviously Bruce playing less minutes is going to be a factor, but he's still been getting 20 minutes a game. Is the 10 minutes less that he's getting this year compared to last enough to fall from 3rd to 15th? Is Tony really a worse defender? Maybe I've just been underrating his defense in years past, but I haven't noticed some big dropoff because I never thought he was all that great at it to begin with. If we had to pin the perimeter woes on specific players, who would you target?

From what I've seen from Bruce tonight and the fact the he's hitting about 40% from behind the arc, it's clear he needs more minutes. While Finley's mins should be reduced. When his perimeter J isn't falling, he's a wasted roster spot.

[mathbzh]

Nate robinson - 5 foot 9 PG - 10 Rebounds

Mat Bonner - 6 foot 10 C - 8 Rebounds


Fuck the Vince carter talk, get a big man.

Fuck the Vince carter talk, get a 5ft9 bigman :rolleyes

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Nate robinson - 5 foot 9 PG - 10 Rebounds

Mat Bonner - 6 foot 10 C - 8 Rebounds


Fuck the Vince carter talk, get a big man.

Way to miss the point. Did you actually watch the game or you've only seen the boxscore?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You gotta give to get and when you don't have anything to give you aren't going to get anything back .

:lol Talk about being a hypocrite. Love Laker trolls, very amusing.

[Spork KIller]

You gotta give to get and when you don't have anything to give you aren't going to get anything back .

and this is the reason this suck ass bitches will be left empty handed when the trading deadline passes by...

Cheap ass front office

[holcs50]

not being pessimistic here but as the team is currently assembled I don't think we can beat the lakers. One word would make me change my mind though.....SHEED!!!!! Think if we can somehow get him b4 this trade deadline then have a great shot. Otherwise just think lakers size and kobe in the 4th would take us in a 7 game series. fuckin lakes, can't stand losing to them.

[LakeShow_2009]

not being pessimistic here but as the team is currently assembled I don't think we can beat the lakers. One word would make me change my mind though.....SHEED!!!!! Think if we can somehow get him b4 this trade deadline then have a great shot. Otherwise just think lakers size and kobe in the 4th would take us in a 7 game series. fuckin lakes, can't stand losing to them.


even with "sheed" the spurs don't stand a chance against the lakers, but seriously, i don't think the spurs are goinng to make a move, they just don't have the assets.

[Manufan909]

I was hoping you'd say seriously, otherwise i'd have to unofficially anoint your DrHouse2.0.

[urunobili]

Pops Mensa Bonsu!

[coyotes_geek]

From what I've seen from Bruce tonight and the fact the he's hitting about 40% from behind the arc, it's clear he needs more minutes. While Finley's mins should be reduced. When his perimeter J isn't falling, he's a wasted roster spot.

I agree, and I think Pop recognizes that too. I'm pretty sure his master plan involves Bruce's minutes increasing as we get closer to the playoffs. He's just been saving him early in the season so that he'd be fresher late. At least I hope.........

[I Love Me Some Me]

we couldnt score down the strech either. Thats where Carter comes in!

It's times like those when you wished the Spurs had an all-star point guard.

[Jayem2]

trade hill/mason for nate!

seriously,, i would.

[quentin_compson]

trade hill/mason for nate!

seriously,, i would.

Nate Robinson is one of those guys I never want to see wearing a Spurs jersey. Ever.

And I don't get why people, when some guy has a couple of decent games, suddenly want to trade everyone and their mom on the Spurs' roster in order to get that guy, who is probably due falling back into mediocrity soon enough, anyhow.

[coyotes_geek]

Nate Robinson is one of those guys I never want to see wearing a Spurs jersey. Ever.

And I don't get why people, when some guy has a couple of decent games, suddenly want to trade everyone and their mom on the Spurs' roster in order to get that guy, who is probably due falling back into mediocrity soon enough, anyhow.

Word. Nate made Tony his bitch last night, but that doesn't mean the Spurs need to trade for the guy. Trading for a 5-6 shot chucker isn't going to fix what ails us.