Update... RJ talks Stalled, Vince deal dead...

[afireinside20]

OMG, please Spurs get Vince Carter!!!

[MacGyver]

OMG, please Spurs get Vince Carter!!!!

[mudyez]

I'm pretty sure, we will do a minu trade for joe smith and thats it...kind of the same deal we had forkurt last year...presti will do us another favour

BUT I will be really pissed, if we dont win another championship the next 2 years, with the group we have now...and I'm the first one to say: it would have been worth to make a real run at carter!

[mudyez]

about 8 hours to go?

[mystargtr34]

I read the earlier part of the thread, skipped the rest. In regards to the discussion about Mason/Hill for Carter. I look at it two ways, if Manu is out for the season, or if there is ANY concern that he could be out for the season, then you trade Mason and Hill for him, assuming thats the deal breaker.

Assk yourself this question, would you rather have Manu, or would you rather have Hill + Mason. Who's harder to replace? Carter is every bit the player Manu is, and probably then some. A 15 MPG backup PG, and a 6'5" 3 Point shooter are much easier to replace than 20-5-5 from the wing position.

Its a no brainer.

[mystargtr34]

You find your new back up PG in next years draft, and your 3 point specialist during the next off season.

Hill and Mase have been great, but i trade them in a heartbeat for a chance to win now. Standing pat means another season wasted, and Duncan will be 34 during next seasons playoffs.

[Mr. Body]

Chad Ford:
The Nets and Blazers were negotiating late into the night over Vince Carter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=136). One of the hang-ups now is Portland's insistence that the Nets include the 2011 first-round pick the Nets acquired from the Golden State Warriors (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=gsw) in any deal for Carter. It's pretty tough at the moment to get a handle on what the Blazers are doing. They talked to Bucks, Bobcats and the Nets on Wednesday. And one source insists there's still a possibility that the Blazers don't do anything.

Cheeky! The Blazers are insisting on NJ's OWN first rounder. That's amazing.

[mystargtr34]

That expiring contract of Lafrentz will probably be the difference. Now that Pritchard knows the Spurs are interested, he will probly be more willing to put more in the deal.

Lafrentz + Outlaw + Fillers is alot more attractive than anything the Spurs can offer.

[Harry Callahan]

Cheeky! The Blazers are insisting on NJ's OWN first rounder. That's amazing.


The arrogance of Portland's GM is coming through again. Pritchard wants to kick people in the nuts and brag about it later. An a-hole.

[benefactor]

Pritchard is a chump stain. Not only does he want to acquire Carter for basically nothing but he wants the Nets to send a first round pick too? He's gonna look even dumber than he did with Dairusgate if the deal fails because of this.

[MarHill]

I guess I should take that approach when deciding to spend money going to games or not. If the FO isn't willing to spend money to give our team the best chance to win...why should I spend my money on seeing a team spin their wheels?

Then I will define you as a Spoiled Spurs fan.

This team has put a very competitive product on the court for the past 10 years and have cashed in for 4 championships since then and have made at least the 2nd round of the playoffs since 2000. And this team is still very competitive...that's all I can ask for as a fan. To give yourself a chance to win it all each year that you can.

This isn't fantasy basketball and it isn't easy to make deals like a lot of people want on this thread.

I would like to have VC and he is talented but I can understand perfectly why Spurs won't do it because it will hurt them financially.

If you can't appreciate that...then too bad!

:bang

[MarHill]

Exactly. People get way too carried away sometimes. I imagine the FO gets a lot of laughs from some of the theories they hear.

Amen!!!

[Man of Steel]

Don't know why I have this feeling--

But I think the Carter deal may still come about.

Just a hunch.

Guess we won't know until after lunch.

[MarHill]

The Spurs aren't going to make any big moves because they just don't do that.

They will bank on Manu's ankle recovering in time for the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. I'm baffled that Spur fans actually think their FO would trade Ginobili.

Amazing....even a fan for our rival gets it!!

Thank you, DrHouse!!

:lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

This team has put a very competitive product on the court for the past 10 years and have cashed in for 4 championships since then and have made at least the 2nd round of the playoffs since 2000. And this team is still very competitive...that's all I can ask for as a fan. To give yourself a chance to win it all each year that you can.


i say there were times during those 10 years, i felt we shouldve kept some of the players instead of letting them go and signing a FA the following year, to find out the moron doesnt fit on our team and letting him go and look for another player again.....

eg. we win during odd years, and when its time to resign...they either bolt and we are forced to look for a FA and fail in a even year.....

[Holt's Cat]

I guess Duncan's going to play forever.

[MarHill]

i say there were times during those 10 years, i felt we shouldve kept some of the players instead of letting them go and signing a FA the following year, to find out the moron doesnt fit on our team and letting him go and look for another player again.....

eg. we win during odd years, and when its time to resign...they either bolt and we are forced to look for a FA and fail in a even year.....

Only the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls have more championships than the Spurs in NBA HISTORY!!!!!

Even the Celtics and Lakers have had down years and this team is still competitive for a championship.

You're not going to win it all every year. That's unrealistic! But to keep yourself in the hunt....is all I can ask for as a fan!

Hmm......

[MarHill]

I guess Duncan's going to play forever.

Of course not!

But getting four championships out of him in ten years...the Spurs FO' will take that everytime.

Ask Charles Barkley or Karl Malone or Pat Ewing or Reggie Miller or Dirk or Steve Nash if they would take Tim Duncan's place!!

:bang

[Holt's Cat]

Of course not!

But getting four championships out of him in ten years...the Spurs FO' will take that everytime.

Ask Charles Barkley or Karl Malone or Pat Ewing or Reggie Miller or Dirk or Steve Nash if they would take Tim Duncan's place!!

:bang


Yay for settling.

[MarHill]

Yay for settling.


Yay...for no perspective!!

:bang

[Holt's Cat]

Oh grasshopper, I have plenty of perspective. The Spurs have two once-in-a-generation bigmen fall into their laps and they have only 4 titles to show for it over 19 years?

[Holt's Cat]

After the next couple of seasons the Spurs aren't going to sniff another Larry O'Brien for a long, long time. So win now and fuck SS&E's financials.

[MarHill]

[QUOTE=Holt's Cat;3124148]Oh grasshopper, I have plenty of perspective. The Spurs have two once-in-a-generation bigmen fall into their laps and they have only 4 titles to show for it over 19 years?[/QUOTE

Only 4 titles...shows you have no perspective!!

Only the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls have more championships than the Spurs.

And considering.....a lot of people think NBA is in the tank for the Lakers and Celtics...that a team from South Texas even have a championship let alone 4 is remarkable indeed!!!

[MarHill]

After the next couple of seasons the Spurs aren't going to sniff another Larry O'Brien for a long, long time. So win now and fuck SS&E's financials.



Yep...easy to post to spend other people's money!!!

:lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Only 4 titles...shows you have no perspective!!

Only the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls have more championships than the Spurs.

And considering.....a lot of people think NBA is in the tank for the Lakers and Celtics...that a team from South Texas even have a championship let alone 4 is remarkable indeed!!!

Dude stop being rational, objective and logical, you're messing with his head.

[Holt's Cat]

Oh grasshopper, I have plenty of perspective. The Spurs have two once-in-a-generation bigmen fall into their laps and they have only 4 titles to show for it over 19 years?

Only 4 titles...shows you have no perspective!!

Only the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls have more championships than the Spurs.

And considering.....a lot of people think NBA is in the tank for the Lakers and Celtics...that a team from South Texas even have a championship let alone 4 is remarkable indeed!!!


A team from South Texas that saw lightning strike twice in the lottery. Duncan's career is past the halfway point. Win now and worry later.

[Holt's Cat]

Yep...easy to post to spend other people's money!!!

:lol

It's not as easy as making excuses for those other people.

[MarHill]

Dude stop being rational, objective and logical, you're messing with his head.

Thanks! :toast

I forgot that the word "fan" comes from the word "fanatic"

:lmao

[Holt's Cat]

Dude stop being rational, objective and logical, you're messing with his head.

If you believe his argument is rational and objective you are retarded.

[Holt's Cat]

Thanks! :toast

I forgot that the word "fan" comes from the word "fanatic"

:lmao

Right. Unless you are an investor in SS&E why the fuck do you give a shit about their p&l?

[MaNu4Tres]

+1 for Holts calt

[MarHill]

A team from South Texas that saw lightning strike twice in the lottery. Duncan's career is past the halfway point. Win now and worry later.


The Knicks struck lightning in the lottery with Pat Ewing=0 titles

The Mavs struck lightning in the lottery with Dirk=0 titles

The 76ers struck lightning in the lottery with Barkley=0 titles

The Jazz struck lightning in the lottery with Malone=0 titles

The Rockers struck lightning in the lottery with Hakeem=2 titles

The Spurs struck lightning in the lottery with TD=4 titles (and have a shot for number 5!)

Yeah...I say perspective is gone out the window!!! :lol

[hater]

you cant compare Ewing/Dirk/Barkley/Malone to Hakeem/TD. come on. that's just silly

[Shastafarian]

The Knicks struck lightning in the lottery with Pat Ewing=0 titles

The Mavs struck lightning in the lottery with Dirk=0 titles

The 76ers struck lightning in the lottery with Barkley=0 titles

The Jazz struck lightning in the lottery with Malone=0 titles

The Rockers struck lightning in the lottery with Hakeem=2 titles

The Spurs struck lightning in the lottery with TD=4 titles (and have a shot for number 5!)

Yeah...I say perspective is gone out the window!!! :lol
Dwyane Wade was the 5th pick in the 2003 Draft

Kobe Bryant was the 13th pick in the 1996 Draft

But obviously you need the #1 pick to even sniff a title.

[MarHill]

Right. Unless you are an investor in SS&E why the fuck do you give a shit about their p&l?

Uh...because I understand it's a business and not fantasy basketball!

[Shastafarian]

Uh...because I understand it's a business and not fantasy basketball!

It's Holt's Cat's fantasy. Let him have it.

[Holt's Cat]

Uh...because I understand it's a business and not fantasy basketball!

There are better businesses to be a fan of.

[MarHill]

Dwyane Wade was the 5th pick in the 2003 Draft

Kobe Bryant was the 13th pick in the 1996 Draft

But obviously you need the #1 pick to even sniff a title.

Thanks!

My point was drafting in the lottery(not just the no. 1 pick)doesn't guarantee your franchise a championship!

[Shastafarian]

There are better businesses to be a fan of.

:lol

You're too much. Are you one of these guys who completely gives up when his team is down double digits in the 4th quarter? After all, hoping your team can win is for "homers" right?

[MarHill]

There are better businesses to be a fan of.


Well, I'm a fan of this team and I do understand there is a financial aspect to their business.

And considering they've been the most winningest franchise in all of pro sports over the last 10 years...the FO have done a good job.

Is it perfect...of course not! But nothing is!!

However, the Spurs aren't the Atlanta Braves or the Buffalo Bills of basketball either.

They've cashed in four times for it all and been right on the doorstep every since 1999.

That's perspective!!

[Holt's Cat]

:lol

You're too much. Are you one of these guys who completely gives up when his team is down double digits in the 4th quarter?


Nope. I remember rational, objective fans such as yourself leaving early in the 4th quarter on Memorial Day, 1999.

[Holt's Cat]

Well, I'm a fan of this team and I do understand there is a financial aspect to their business.

And considering they've been the most winningest franchise in all of pro sports over the last 10 years...the FO have done a good job.

Is it perfect...of course not! But nothing is!!

However, the Spurs aren't the Atlanta Braves or the Buffalo Bills of basketball either.

They've cashed in four times for it all and been right on the doorstep every since 1999.

That's perspective!!

You're only as good as you are today. I guess you enjoyed last season, with Pete cashing yet another lux tax check.

[Shastafarian]

Nope. I remember rational, objective fans such as yourself leaving early in the 4th quarter on Memorial Day, 1999.

Uh, nope can't say I have ever left a game early. It's funny that you're using "rational" and "objective" in a sarcastic way in this discussion. I guess you think the Front Office is also "rational and objective"....but not really. Keep dreamin puddy tat.

[Holt's Cat]

Fuck man. It took a while, a long fucking while, but finally the time has come in which Ghost Writer is right.

[MarHill]

You're only as good as you are today. I guess you enjoyed last season, with Pete cashing yet another lux tax check.

Yep they were defending their championship and got to the WCF.

Boy...that's a losing franchise!!!

:lmao

[Holt's Cat]

Yep they were defending their championship and got to the WCF.

Boy...that's a losing franchise!!!

:lmao

And lost out on #5.

[Mavs<Spurs]

For many/most Spurs fans, if Spurs make a conscious decision to not try to win now and decide to be mediocre in order to avoid spending more money, then they will not follow the team or support it except in a minor way.

This is the consequence if for financial reasons the team decides not to try to obtain another big time player.

Tim Duncan is in his 11th year in the league and is 33. Tony Parker is still in his prime. Manu is unreliable as a consistent third scorer and spark for the Spurs due to injury.

If we don't get another big time player, we will not win another championship. We will get to the playoffs (probably), but will be eliminated in the second round.

With Tim and Tony and sometimes Manu, we have a great chance to win a championship IF we get one more big time player.

We may never have another chance to win a championship, certainly not as good a chance as we have now IF we get one more big time player.

San Antonio is all about the Spurs. Our area loves the Spurs. However, if the owner isn't committed to going all out for a championship, then neither will the city nor the surrounding area be committed.

Especially after this last injury, it is crystal clear that we won't win another championship without another big time player.

I will always love My Spurs. I will always appreciate what they accomplished.

However, will I follow them every day as closely as I do now, if I know that they consciously decided to abandon trying to win a championship? It is hard to say that I would. If they are losing very frequently and I know that the owner for financial reasons decided not to try to win when he could, then it is depressing.

The team is at a crossroads now. And look at the Lakers.

As it stands, no one believes that we can beat the Lakers. Standing pat is a recipe for disaster because of the unreliability of Manu, not to mention the lack of a second big. Putting those in combination means that if we don't obtain another big time scorer, we will not win another championship.

We will be another team that also ran.

Will they waste Tim and Tony's time together with an on and off Manu?

There is a fork in the road. One way leads to mediocrity and a loss of fan support. The other way may lead to another championship.

Which way will they go?

I hope that they try extremely hard to obtain a big time player.

[Shastafarian]

And lost out on #5.

OH NO! They couldn't get their 5th championship in 9 years! Might as well move the franchise. You can't win every year puddy tat.

[MarHill]

And lost out on #5.

So by your logic...they are a losing franchise!! I didn''t know the Spurs had become the Clippers all of sudden!

[Holt's Cat]

When are the Spurs going to have a better time to add to the hardware? What is going to be remembered decades from now? That the Spurs made it under the lux tax threshold? That's stupid.

[tav1]

prediction: the Spurs request a short extension of the deadline...

Nothing more than a hunch, but it sounds as if they need to wait for Portland to make a move before trying their hand at one final low ball offer. Let's hope Portland trades for either Wallace or Jefferson in the next couple hours.

[Shastafarian]

When are the Spurs going to have a better time to add to the hardware?Who knows? You don't.

What is going to be remembered decades from now? That the Spurs made it under the lux tax threshold? That's stupid.
That doesn't even make sense. What will be remembered is that they have been the franchise with the best win% in the last decade and have 4 championships to go with it. Who knows what the future will bring. Again, you don't.

[Holt's Cat]

Who knows? You don't.

Barring yet another lotto win, not for the forseeable future. The Spurs can't attract top tier free agents to sleepy little SA, even with the opportunity to play with TD, TP and Manu coming off a championship.




That doesn't even make sense. What will be remembered is that they have been the franchise with the best win% in the last decade and have 4 championships to go with it. Who knows what the future will bring. Again, you don't.

Yawn. They will be the footnote between the Kobe/Shaq Lakers and the Kobe/Bynum Lakers.

[MarHill]

For many/most Spurs fans, if Spurs make a conscious decision to not try to win now and decide to be mediocre in order to avoid spending more money, then they will not follow the team or support it except in a minor way.

This is the consequence if for financial reasons the team decides not to try to obtain another big time player.

Tim Duncan is in his 11th year in the league and is 33. Tony Parker is still in his prime. Manu is unreliable as a consistent third scorer and spark for the Spurs due to injury.

If we don't get another big time player, we will not win another championship. We will get to the playoffs (probably), but will be eliminated in the second round.

With Tim and Tony and sometimes Manu, we have a great chance to win a championship IF we get one more big time player.

We may never have another chance to win a championship, certainly not as good a chance as we have now IF we get one more big time player.

San Antonio is all about the Spurs. Our area loves the Spurs. However, if the owner isn't committed to going all out for a championship, then neither will the city nor the surrounding area be committed.

Especially after this last injury, it is crystal clear that we won't win another championship without another big time player.

I will always love My Spurs. I will always appreciate what they accomplished.

However, will I follow them every day as closely as I do now, if I know that they consciously decided to abandon trying to win a championship? It is hard to say that I would. If they are losing very frequently and I know that the owner for financial reasons decided not to try to win when he could, then it is depressing.

The team is at a crossroads now. And look at the Lakers.

As it stands, no one believes that we can beat the Lakers. Standing pat is a recipe for disaster because of the unreliability of Manu, not to mention the lack of a second big. Putting those in combination means that if we don't obtain another big time scorer, we will not win another championship.

We will be another team that also ran.

Will they waste Tim and Tony's time together with an on and off Manu?

There is a fork in the road. One way leads to mediocrity and a loss of fan support. The other way may lead to another championship.

Which way will they go?

I hope that they try extremely hard to obtain a big time player.

First of all, even if everything was perfect this season...the Spurs didn't much money under the cap to play with and the bench players wasn't going to drum up lot of interest in a trade unless it was for an expiring contact or a team that was going to dump salary.

I could see if the Spurs had 5-8 million or more under the cap...then they should try to make a deal. That was never an option.

So there have some been unrealistic expectations from the beginning.

Also, to say the Spurs FO' aren't trying to win is unfair...especially when the track record has been very impressive. Have they made some mistakes..yes they have. But no one is perfect!

And I know the championship window is getting short. It happens.....no one is on top forever. But they won't hurt their franchise financially either....to make a desperate move for fantasy basketball reasons.

They have to decide in the off season do they want to resign Manu to an extension. Also, gear up to see how much they will for 2010 as well and maintain a very competitive product on the court.

But for Spurs fans somehow suggest that this franchise has turned into the Clippers..is just ludicrous.

You actually have some fans arguing about 4 championships in 10 years when there are only three other franchises in the history of the NBA with more championships. Wow!!!

[coyotes_geek]

prediction: the Spurs request a short extension of the deadline...

Nothing more than a hunch, but it sounds as if they need to wait for Portland to make a move before trying their hand at one final low ball offer. Let's hope Portland trades for either Wallace or Jefferson in the next couple hours.

Can't happen. If it were possible to get an extension of the deadline JR Smith would have been a Spur.

[benefactor]

prediction: the Spurs request a short extension of the deadline...

Nothing more than a hunch, but it sounds as if they need to wait for Portland to make a move before trying their hand at one final low ball offer. Let's hope Portland trades for either Wallace or Jefferson in the next couple hours.
Yeah...this is really what everything hinges on. I have never thought that obtaining Carter was possible, but it looks like Pritchard is doing everything he can to screw up the deal in asking for a pick. We could have an outside shot if a Wallace/Jefferson deal goes down.

[MarHill]

Barring yet another lotto win, not for the forseeable future. The Spurs can't attract top tier free agents to sleepy little SA, even with the opportunity to play with TD, TP and Manu coming off a championship.




Yawn. They will be the footnote between the Kobe/Shaq Lakers and the Kobe/Bynum Lakers.


Now you are writing history for the Spurs!!

:lol

[coyotes_geek]

Portland is just trying to hold everything up. They know everything hinges on them so they're going to try and make a deal at the very last minute and screw everyone else who has been waiting for them to do something. We just have to hope it backfires and the sellers get nervous that Portland won't shop with them.

[Holt's Cat]

You actually have some fans arguing about 4 championships in 14 years...

[Mavs<Spurs]

So by your logic...they are a losing franchise!! I didn''t know the Spurs had become the Clippers all of sudden!

The Boston Celtics were also a great franchise. They had won 11 titles in 13 years. They won during the Bird McHale Parrish years as well.

However, they were mediocre at best afterwards.


People didn't think what a great franchise they were because they won in the past.

And the Celtics knew that.

The owners allowed the team to get KG and Ray Allen.

And the result is a championship. And they are one of the best teams in the league this year as well.



If the Spurs become mediocre, then the ancient past won't matter. What will matter is that the Spurs are mediocre = good enough to get into the playoffs, but a second tier team that will lose in the first or second round every year.


People consider what teams have in the current year. They don't look back on the accomplishments of the past.

If they aren't better than half of the league this year, than they aren't better than those teams. It's that simple. And what they did in the past doesn't make them great in the current year. So, we are comparing teams in the current year (which one is better this year).

There are a lot of teams better than the Spurs right now if Manu is seriously injured. In fact, at least 10 to 12 teams are better than the Spurs if Manu is seriously injured.

Sometime soon, that list might include the Clippers. But, right now, if the injury report is as serious about Manu as it sounds, then we have a lot of teams that we could put in that list.


Lakers, Hornets, Mavericks, Suns, Nuggets, Trailblazers, may all be better than the Spurs IF Manu is seriously injured. And this is not to mention the Cavs, the Celtics, and the Magic depending upon Jameer Nelson. And I am just starting.


Go break out the photo albums if you want to live in the past.

Some of us want to win another championship while we still have the chance with Tim and Tony because we know that we won't have that chance later.

[Shastafarian]

Barring yet another lotto win, not for the forseeable future. The Spurs can't attract top tier free agents to sleepy little SA, even with the opportunity to play with TD, TP and Manu coming off a championship. Shit! I didn't know a team needed the number 1 pick to win a title! Dammit!





Yawn. They will be the footnote between the Kobe/Shaq Lakers and the Kobe/Bynum Lakers.Oh so why don't you go root for them Laker fan.

[MarHill]

For many/most Spurs fans, if Spurs make a conscious decision to not try to win now and decide to be mediocre in order to avoid spending more money, then they will not follow the team or support it except in a minor way.

This is the consequence if for financial reasons the team decides not to try to obtain another big time player.

Tim Duncan is in his 11th year in the league and is 33. Tony Parker is still in his prime. Manu is unreliable as a consistent third scorer and spark for the Spurs due to injury.

If we don't get another big time player, we will not win another championship. We will get to the playoffs (probably), but will be eliminated in the second round.

With Tim and Tony and sometimes Manu, we have a great chance to win a championship IF we get one more big time player.

We may never have another chance to win a championship, certainly not as good a chance as we have now IF we get one more big time player.

San Antonio is all about the Spurs. Our area loves the Spurs. However, if the owner isn't committed to going all out for a championship, then neither will the city nor the surrounding area be committed.

Especially after this last injury, it is crystal clear that we won't win another championship without another big time player.

I will always love My Spurs. I will always appreciate what they accomplished.

However, will I follow them every day as closely as I do now, if I know that they consciously decided to abandon trying to win a championship? It is hard to say that I would. If they are losing very frequently and I know that the owner for financial reasons decided not to try to win when he could, then it is depressing.

The team is at a crossroads now. And look at the Lakers.

As it stands, no one believes that we can beat the Lakers. Standing pat is a recipe for disaster because of the unreliability of Manu, not to mention the lack of a second big. Putting those in combination means that if we don't obtain another big time scorer, we will not win another championship.

We will be another team that also ran.

Will they waste Tim and Tony's time together with an on and off Manu?

There is a fork in the road. One way leads to mediocrity and a loss of fan support. The other way may lead to another championship.

Which way will they go?

I hope that they try extremely hard to obtain a big time player.

Also..this team hasn't been mediocre.

This isn't a team trying to get into playoffs or win 50 games a year.

[Holt's Cat]

Shit! I didn't know a team needed the number 1 pick to win a title! Dammit!


The Spurs did.




Oh so why don't you go root for them Laker fan.

ROFL. Why don't you go punch one out to Peter Holt's mug?

[Shastafarian]

The Spurs did.Once. Unless you're suggesting David Robinson getting drafted #1 10 years earlier helped too. I guess if you're lucky enough to draft Tim Duncan, you get spoiled and think you need to draft the consensus #1 to have a chance at a title. Ask the 2004 Detroit team if they needed a #1 pick.





ROFL. Why don't you go punch one out to Peter Holt's mug?

Would this be before or after you bust all over a picture of Kobe Bryant?

[MarHill]

The Boston Celtics were also a great franchise. They had won 11 titles in 13 years. They won during the Bird McHale Parrish years as well.

However, they were mediocre at best afterwards.


People didn't think what a great franchise they were because they won in the past.

And the Celtics knew that.

The owners allowed the team to get KG and Ray Allen.

And the result is a championship. And they are one of the best teams in the league this year as well.



If the Spurs become mediocre, then the ancient past won't matter. What will matter is that the Spurs are mediocre = good enough to get into the playoffs, but a second tier team that will lose in the first or second round every year.


People consider what teams have in the current year. They don't look back on the accomplishments of the past.

If they aren't better than half of the league this year, than they aren't better than those teams. It's that simple. And what they did in the past doesn't make that great in the current year. So, we are comparing teams in the current year (which one is better this year).

They are a lot of teams better than the Spurs right now if Manu is seriously injured. In fact, at least 10 to 12 teams are better than the Spurs if Manu is seriously injured.

Sometime soon, that list might include the Clippers. But, right now, if the injury report is as serious about Manu as it sounds, then we have a lot of teams that we could put in that list.


Lakers, Hornets, Mavericks, Suns, Nuggets, Trailblazers, may all be better than the Spurs IF Manu is seriously injured. And this is not to mention the Cavs, the Celtics, and the Magic depending upon Jameer Nelson. And I am just starting.


Go break out the photo albums if you want to live in the past.

Some of us want to win another championship while we still have the chance with Tim and Tony because we know that we won't have that chance later.

You are wrong about that! The Celtics talk about their 17 titles all the time. The Lakers talk about their titles all the time as well.

I want to win another championship as well...but there is a reality that some fans don't want to get.

Championships aren't guarantee to any franchise.

Look at what happened to the Miami Heat after winning it in 2006. Now they are mediocre at best.

They sold everything for that championship and they are barely competitive even with a healthy D-Wade.

There are cycles in pro sports...some teams will be at the top and then go through down cycles. That's life and you have realize that.

I'm not writing off the Spurs...and they put themselves in good financial position with Tim and Tony's contracts are the only ones on the books after 2010.

[Shastafarian]

I'm gonna rest easy knowing this trade won't happen and that Laker fans like Holt's Cat don't know shit about basketball.

[MarHill]

Again, you are writing history for the Spurs!!

[Mavs<Spurs]

Also..this team hasn't been mediocre.

This isn't a team trying to get into playoffs or win 50 games a year.


In the past, they weren't mediocre.

However, without Manu Ginobili they are a mediocre team.

They would make the playoffs largely due to their current position in the standings and the fact that 16 teams make the playoffs.

Mediocre = make it to the playoffs as a second tier team and not get past the second round.


Who believes that they are a top tier team without Manu Ginobili?

Nobody realistic. Cavs, Celts, Lakers are in the top tier. the Magic are with a healthy Jameer Nelson whose injury isn't a persistent problem extending into the future.

Who believes that they will get to WCF without a healthy Manu Ginobili?

Again, nobody who is realistic. Part of the reason is that without a second big to guard the paint and rebound better, we don't defend nearly as well as we did in past years.

So, getting to the WCF without a healthy Manu Ginobili won't happen.


That makes them mediocre as I have defined it. And I don't think that is an unreasonable definition either. Again, probably 10 to 12 teams are better than the Spurs without a healthy Manu Ginobili.

Without a healthy Manu Ginobili will they win 50 games?

Maybe. Probably. but's it not as much of a lock as you seem to think. They haven't gotten out of the 50's with all 3 healthy most of the season.


So, they would be mediocre the rest of the year and for the foreseeable future if Manu Ginobili is seriously injured.

[benefactor]

Blazers May Hang on to Raef's Contract (http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2009/02/blazers_may_hold_raefs_contrac.html)

I wrote it today, and I'm going to say it again, I think the Blazers are only going to make a deal into the trade deadline if it's an absolute no-brainer.

The hunch here is that the Blazers realize they're in a position of leverage with Raef LaFrentz's expiring contract and are willing to hold that contract into the end of the season before making a deal with it. They can trade the contract prior to the end of their season.

It's also not lost that they'll collect nearly $5 million in insurance money if they do this because LaFrentz isn't able to play. Theoretically, this helps make up for some of the money lost with the return of Mr. Head Bop in Memphis.

Source inside the organization said the team feels like it can get a lopsided deal prior to the end of their season. This is a dramatic shift from where owner Paul Allen used to operate when he had Trader Bob running the show. And it's not the worst thing in the casino to wait as long as possible to act, see what's out there, when you're holding the best cards.

Still, is Portland a playoff team if they do nothing at the deadline?

I think they area. But they'll get beat up in the playoffs. And maybe the larger point here is that the Blazers don't realistically have a chance in hell at winning an NBA title this season so they're content to take the experience and try to leverage the most out of LaFrentz's contract possible.

I think the Blazers will try to steal more exceptions today, and maybe do something small today with Channing Frye or another piece that isn't contributing. But if you're looking for a biggie, brace for nothing.

[xtremesteven33]

If the Blazers dont trade for Carter.

I see the Spurs getting Carter for nothing basically.

The ball is in Portlands court.

[coyotes_geek]

Portland is just trying to run down the trade clock. They'll make a last second deal and screw everyone else by not leaving them enough time to put together other trades.

[benefactor]

Portland is just trying to run down the trade clock. They'll make a last second deal and screw everyone else by not leaving them enough time to put together other trades.
Perhaps. Possible payback for everyone laughing at their threat during Dariusgate.

[tav1]

POSTED: Feb. 19 -- 11:58 a.m.


Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: A plugged in source just told me that the Blazers are done, and will not be making any moves before the deadline.

Of course, a great offer at the last minute could change that, but that's considered unlikely.

What's this about? All that talk and no big move?

Part of this, I think, is that they have been driving a hard bargain. Another part of is that they are in a position to use Raef LaFrentz's cap room this summer, plus their new trade exception, when the market will be depressed thanks to the economy. Portland will likely be able to make either a lopsided trade or a free-agent signing.

Another part of it is that I'm convinced Portland gets into some trade talks as pure intelligence gathering.

By negotiating with the Nets about Vince Carter, the Bucks about Richard Jefferson, the Bulls about Luol Deng, the Kings about John Salmons, the Bobcats about Gerald Wallace -- and a zillion other such talks -- the Blazers get real insight into what everybody really wants. They get to fill in the the blanks about the 29 other team strategies. It's like seeing the other team's playbook.

Chad Ford: A Blazers source says the Blazers are now leaning strongly toward not making a major trade before the deadline. They have been in talks with the Nets, Bucks and Bobcats for days, but as of 11:30 a.m. they say nothing is hot.

Says one Blazers source, "I don't see a deal. We like our players long term. We don't want to mess with our chemistry."

The Blazers have looked at everyone from Gerald Wallace to Richard Jefferson to Vince Carter. But up until now, they haven't been able to come to a deal they're willing to do. They've wanted draft picks from the Bucks and Nets and have been unwilling to take back Nazr Mohammed in a deal with the Bobcats.

However, don't close the door completely. When pressed, the source conceded that if they got a better offer in the next few hours, it was still possible that they could make a deal.

[xtremesteven33]

....(fingers crossed).....

[EricB]

Alright Spurs, slap yourselves in the face and go get Carter damnt.

[benefactor]

Well...if VC is happening at all it's happening now.

[xtremesteven33]

Spurs got 3 hours.....

[benefactor]

Alright Spurs, slap yourselves in the face and go get Carter damnt.
Nah...its more about how desperate will Thorn be to move him.

[xtremesteven33]

Nah...its more about how desperate will Thorn be to move him.




Theyre desperate....really desperate

[EricB]

Nah...its more about how desperate will Thorn be to move him.

I don't think hes as desperate as everyone is making him out to be.

[benefactor]

I don't think hes as desperate as everyone is making him out to be.
Unfortunately, I think he isn't either.

[Marcus Bryant]

Thorn takes every opportunity to screw the Spurs. This time is likely not any different.

[EricB]

Thorn takes every opportunity to screw the Spurs. This time is likely not any different.


But Jay Howard told me Thorn and Pop are good buddies!!

:lol

[coyotes_geek]

I don't think hes as desperate as everyone is making him out to be.

Agreed. Thorn can still trade Vince this offseason and get him off their 2010 cap.

[EricB]

wouldn't shock me though if George Hill is now included in discussions thanks to that other thread....

[NFGIII]

Desperate or not I don't think the Nets will give VC up for next to nothing. If he comes here it will cost us Mason or Hill plus others. I can't see the Spurs sending both Mason and HIll for VC. Just wouldn't make sense for the long term success of the team. After all the years of adding role players and stashing draft picks overseas or trading them we finally add younger players to the team in Mason and HIll. To trade both away would be mind boggling as well as contra to what they have wanted to do this season. As stated above the Nets still have the off season to see what they can do with VC.

We've only got a couple of hours left to see what happens. Frankly I really don't see VC coming here. If anything happens it will probably be some second tier player coming here if that. There aren't a lot of options left IMO. And we all know that the Spurs don't have a lot to offer vs. what other teams can.

[xtremesteven33]

Hill some draft picks and some prospects for Carter would be a MAJOR steal.

[Universe]

Thorn isn't desprate to trade Vince. If a deal happens for salary reasons it's because Ratner forced him too because of the large amount of money being lost each year.

I would still rather Jefferson on this team because he actually likes attacking. Vince would be great but he is extremely frustrating to watch most of the time.

[Darkwaters]

I'd take Carter or Jefferson if the opportunity was there. I don't care what happens to Finley but I don't want to give up both Mason and Hill. Maybe one of the two though if we can land a player of that caliber. And honestly I'd prefer to go fishing for Tyson Chandler if at all possible.