Update... RJ talks Stalled, Vince deal dead...

[nadroj117]

POSTED: Feb. 18 -- 8:58 p.m. ET



Carter
Chris Broussard: It looks like it's Portland or bust for Vince Carter, according to a person with knowledge of the trade talks surrounding New Jersey's star forward.

"It's looking like it's going to be head-to-head between Carter and Richard Jefferson," the person said. "I think Jefferson's going to be the one who goes to Portland."


While Carter may be the better player, Portland's concerned with Carter's age (he turned 32 last month) and the three years, $51 million left on his contract (though only $4 million of the $18 million in his final season is guaranteed).

The Nets have their own concerns about Carter's contract and that's why they've been shopping him. They've spoken with San Antonio, Houston and Dallas but nothing has come of those talks.

Discussions with San Antonio have broken down because the Spurs, while willing to part with Bruce Bowen and Fabricio Oberto, are not willing to include Roger Mason Jr. and George Hill in the deal.

Houston would have traded Tracy McGrady for Carter, but McGrady's announcement that he'll have season-ending microfracture surgery killed those chances.

"There will be no Vince deal," another source close to the situation said, referring to the Rockets.

The Los Angeles Clippers, who since training camp have regretted signing Baron Davis to a five-year, $65 million deal, have tried to get involved, proposing a three-team move that would send Davis to Houston, McGrady to New Jersey and Carter to LA. But no one but the Clippers liked that deal.

If Carter doesn't go to Portland, will the Nets send him wherever they can?

"I'd be surprised if they did a straight salary dump, but at the end of the day that might be best for their organization," said one source.

As for Milwaukee's Jefferson, it's far from a done deal that he'll join the Blazers. The Bucks would love to send Jefferson to Portland in a deal that would bring back Raef LaFrentz's expiring contract, but another executive close to the talks said, "It's not dead but there's nothing happening right now."

The Bucks' talks with San Antonio about Jefferson have stalled as well.

Portland's telling teams it has 15 different players it can get for LaFrentz. But many executives around the league are skeptical, saying the Blazers like to talk about deals but are always hesitant to pull the trigger on anything significant.

[MarHill]

POSTED: Feb. 18 -- 8:58 p.m. ET



Carter
Chris Broussard: It looks like it's Portland or bust for Vince Carter, according to a person with knowledge of the trade talks surrounding New Jersey's star forward.

"It's looking like it's going to be head-to-head between Carter and Richard Jefferson," the person said. "I think Jefferson's going to be the one who goes to Portland."


While Carter may be the better player, Portland's concerned with Carter's age (he turned 32 last month) and the three years, $51 million left on his contract (though only $4 million of the $18 million in his final season is guaranteed).

The Nets have their own concerns about Carter's contract and that's why they've been shopping him. They've spoken with San Antonio, Houston and Dallas but nothing has come of those talks.

Discussions with San Antonio have broken down because the Spurs, while willing to part with Bruce Bowen and Fabricio Oberto, are not willing to include Roger Mason Jr. and George Hill in the deal.

Houston would have traded Tracy McGrady for Carter, but McGrady's announcement that he'll have season-ending microfracture surgery killed those chances.

"There will be no Vince deal," another source close to the situation said, referring to the Rockets.

The Los Angeles Clippers, who since training camp have regretted signing Baron Davis to a five-year, $65 million deal, have tried to get involved, proposing a three-team move that would send Davis to Houston, McGrady to New Jersey and Carter to LA. But no one but the Clippers liked that deal.

If Carter doesn't go to Portland, will the Nets send him wherever they can?

"I'd be surprised if they did a straight salary dump, but at the end of the day that might be best for their organization," said one source.

As for Milwaukee's Jefferson, it's far from a done deal that he'll join the Blazers. The Bucks would love to send Jefferson to Portland in a deal that would bring back Raef LaFrentz's expiring contract, but another executive close to the talks said, "It's not dead but there's nothing happening right now."

The Bucks' talks with San Antonio about Jefferson have stalled as well.

Portland's telling teams it has 15 different players it can get for LaFrentz. But many executives around the league are skeptical, saying the Blazers like to talk about deals but are always hesitant to pull the trigger on anything significant.

I figured that NJ would want Mason and Hill because those are most attractive pieces the Spurs have outside the Big 3 and the Spurs don't want to give those players up.

[crc21209]

Hmmmm ok so lets say RJ goes to Portland....then since the Spurs do not wanna include Mason or Hill in the deal, offer NJ scraps AT THE DEADLINE, and end up getting VC for scraps. Not impossible, but improbable.

[crc21209]

If the Nets desperately wanna get rid of Carter, and Portland pulls the trigger on Jefferson, then the Spurs can possibly steal VC away with our scraps maybe, just maybe.

[xtremesteven33]

I just know that big time trades/signings are usually the ones that are never talked about.

Think about the Pau Gasol trade, the Corey Maggette signing, etc.

[MarHill]

If the Nets desperately wanna get rid of Carter, and Portland pulls the trigger on Jefferson, then the Spurs can possibly steal VC away with our scraps maybe, just maybe.

That would be a early, very early Christmas present!!

:lol

[holcs50]

Nothing is going to go down. The only one that interested me much anyways is if somehow we could've gotten sheed because he definitely could've put the spurs over the hump. Like the article said, teams want mason and hill and spurs aren't going to give them up so yea nothings gonna happen.

[crc21209]

You never know nowadays.....from the article:

If Carter doesn't go to Portland, will the Nets send him wherever they can?

"I'd be surprised if they did a straight salary dump, but at the end of the day that might be best for their organization," said one source.

So maybe the Spurs can pull off something consisting of Bowen, Oberto, and whatever else matches up salary wise to get VC. Anybody have any ideas of what we could offer along with Bowen and Oberto?

[Duncan2177]

Nothing is going to go down. The only one that interested me much anyways is if somehow we could've gotten sheed because he definitely could've put the spurs over the hump. Like the article said, teams want mason and hill and spurs aren't going to give them up so yea nothings gonna happen.

Well then the spurs are not going to win a championship plain and fucken simple, I hate to say it but its the truth.

[King]

Still a lot of time until the deadline. I'm sure teams are playing hardball. Things change in crunchtime.

[MarHill]

You never know nowadays.....from the article:

If Carter doesn't go to Portland, will the Nets send him wherever they can?

"I'd be surprised if they did a straight salary dump, but at the end of the day that might be best for their organization," said one source.

So maybe the Spurs can pull off something consisting of Bowen, Oberto, and whatever else matches up salary wise to get VC. Anybody have any ideas of what we could offer along with Bowen and Oberto?

Only Udoka, Vaughn, and the trade rights to Splitter...I think!

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

The Bucks got some more momentum in their quest to find some salary relief for Richard Jefferson Wednesday evening.

Sources say that the Bucks had discussions with the Cavs about a possible Jefferson for Wally Szczerbiak swap. The Cavs have gotten much more active over the past 48 hours making pitches to Washington for Antawn Jamison and the Clippers for Marcus Camby. However, the Wizards and Clippers have both given the Cavs the stiff arm.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218

[Russ]

What about a big, though? Maybe one that wouldn't cost so much in return.

Keep your eye on the ball, Spurs.

[SouthTexasRancher]

You never know nowadays.....from the article:

If Carter doesn't go to Portland, will the Nets send him wherever they can?

"I'd be surprised if they did a straight salary dump, but at the end of the day that might be best for their organization," said one source.

So maybe the Spurs can pull off something consisting of Bowen, Oberto, and whatever else matches up salary wise to get VC. Anybody have any ideas of what we could offer along with Bowen and Oberto?

Could it be that Pop, RC & Holt are going after a trade with someone like

Tayshuan Prince who is just 28 years old? $9.5 mil/ 3 yr contract

13.7 ppg - 6.5 rpg - 3.3 apg and plays defense!!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1724

OR

Richard 'Rip' Hamilton who is 31 years old. $10.8 mil/ 5 yr contract

17.5 ppg - 2.9 rpg - 3.6 apg

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=294

and not even have to give up Mason or Manu.

We give up Udoka, Vaughn, Finley, Bowen and either Oberto or Thomas and since the Pistons are several $ million above the limit and they could release one or more of the Spurs if Detroit is intent on clearing cap space and wanting to go younger. We'd get a guy who would easily fit into Pop's system and we'd hardly miss a beat by playoff time.

Course Detroit would most likely nix this trade in a heartbeat unless we give them Mason or possibly Hill. Finley might ok it since he is from that neck of the woods (around the bend in Melrose Park, Il.). Udoka is young. Vaughn could be a 12th man/player coach or use him as an assistant coach to clear more cap room. I doubt at Bowen's, KT's and Oberto's age they'd want to keep any or all, especially since each are in the $4mil. range, so we might get one of them back for one more playoff run.

One thing for sure is if Manu is gone for the season Pop & RC have to do some kind of trade unless they plan to tank the season and go for the Lottery, which I highly doubt.

According to ESPN's Trade Machine either trade would work.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

On the other hand to get either Sheed or Vince Carter, we will have to give up too many players including Mason or Manu depending on which of the above trades we tried (Mason in the Sheed deal and Manu in the VC deal )which would be stupid at this point. But, if we stick with our present lineup, minus Manu, then we'll be up a creek without a paddle come playoff time. This team, even with a healthy Manu will have a difficult enough time when we go up against the Lakers. We would have to be totally healthy, playing at the top of our game and hope like hell we don't get refs like Joey 'The Dickhead' Crawford, which rest assured that Dipshit Stern will make sure Crawford officiates as many Spurs games as possible.

Then again knowing Pop keeps secrets as tight as Osama bin Laden keeps his present location from the rest of the world outside of the Taliban and al Qaeda, then we will likely see no trade at all or something off the wall like bringing DRob, Sean, Avery, The Iceman and Horry out of retirement and sending guys like Udoka to a new 'Z' League in Siberia.

[Duncan2177]

Nick Collison? Jeff Foster? Chris Kaman? Marcus Camby?

[crc21209]

If the Blazers get RJ, then that leaves VC to the Spurs if they wanna pull the trigger and counter the Nets with an offer without Mason and Hill, NJ desperately wants to get rid of him, why not?

[Holt's Cat]

So the commitment to Carter would be $37 mil? That's not that bad.

Mason was a great pickup and Hill's a nice prospect...but that doesn't strike me as the best reason to nix the deal. What are we waiting for? The future is now, unless TD plans to play until he's 40.

[MarHill]

If the Blazers get RJ, then that leaves VC to the Spurs if they wanna pull the trigger and counter the Nets with an offer without Mason and Hill, NJ desperately wants to get rid of him, why not?

Like I posted earlier...if the Spurs can get VC without giving up Mason and Hill that will be a very early Christmas present!!


:flag:

[crc21209]

Heres the whole article:

POSTED: Feb. 18 -- 9:14 p.m. ET

Chad Ford: The Bucks got some more momentum in their quest to find some salary relief for Richard Jefferson Wednesday evening.

Sources say that the Bucks had discussions with the Cavs about a possible Jefferson for Wally Szczerbiak swap. The Cavs have gotten much more active over the past 48 hours making pitches to Washington for Antawn Jamison and the Clippers for Marcus Camby. However, the Wizards and Clippers have both given the Cavs the stiff arm.

Another source also confirmed that the Blazers did make a call to the Bucks to renew discussions of a possible Jefferson for Raef LaFrentz swap. The two teams had spoken on and off about a deal for several weeks but the Bucks hadn't heard from them in recent days.

The Blazers, as of this evening, were also still trying to find a way to put together a better package for Gerald Wallace after the Bobcats turned down an preliminary LaFrentz for Wallace offer earlier in the day. The Bobcats would still like the Blazers to take back Nazr Mohammed or to throw Nicolas Batum into a deal.

With so many parts, it looks like any Jefferson deal will likely go down to the trade deadline tomorrow.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218

[MarHill]

So the commitment to Carter would be $37 mil? That's not that bad.

Mason was a great pickup and Hill's a nice prospect...but that doesn't strike me as the best reason to nix the deal. What are we waiting for? The future is now, unless TD plans to play until he's 40.

Mason fits well into the Spurs system..even better than expected and Hill has been the back-up PG they've been looking for since Speedy Claxton.

I can see why the Spurs FO don't want to give up those guys and lose some depth in the back court especially after last season.

[ploto]

Nick Collison? Jeff Foster? Chris Kaman? Marcus Camby?

Jeff's hurt. His back is acting up again.

[crc21209]

Well BOTH VC and RJ are playing tonight for their respective teams, does that mean they dont get traded, or does the night before the deadline not matter?

[Manufan909]

VC justs costs too much for RC to ok that. Come on, Camby!!!

[SenorSpur]

While Carter may be the better player, Portland's concerned with Carter's age (he turned 32 last month) and the three years, $51 million left on his contract (though only $4 million of the $18 million in his final season is guaranteed).
With current age of the Spurs roster, his age is something THEY should be concerned about too.

The Nets have their own concerns about Carter's contract and that's why they've been shopping him. They've spoken with San Antonio, Houston and Dallas but nothing has come of those talks.

Discussions with San Antonio have broken down because the Spurs, while willing to part with Bruce Bowen and Fabricio Oberto, are not willing to include Roger Mason Jr. and George Hill in the deal.
That's a big relief.

If Carter doesn't go to Portland, will the Nets send him wherever they can?

"I'd be surprised if they did a straight salary dump, but at the end of the day that might be best for their organization," said one source.
I believe so. Personally, I believe the Nets to be a very desparate seller. Remember, the Nets are vying to be a big player in the supposed LeBron 2010 sweepstakes. (he's not leaving Cleveland, but I digress.). They absolutely MUST clear cap space. All the Spurs need to do is wait them out until the deadline. Maybe they can get one of those types of Xmas gifts that the Fakers got from Memphis last year and that the Thunder received from the Hornets on Tuesday.

The Bucks' talks with San Antonio about Jefferson have stalled as well..
Spurs should wait them out too. Milwaukee wants to dump salary very badly. Unless Portland or Cleveland gets them before the Spurs, the Spurs should be ble to squeeze them as the deadline approaches.

Portland's telling teams it has 15 different players it can get for LaFrentz. But many executives around the league are skeptical, saying the Blazers like to talk about deals but are always hesitant to pull the trigger on anything significant.
With Pritchard's inflated ego, it should come as no surprise that the Blazers are mostly talk.

I still believe all this chatter is a big ol' smokescreen. CIA Pop and the Spurs will spring another "surprise" trade from under the table.

[crc21209]

Man I hope the Spurs pull off something without giving away any important pieces....VC or Jefferson for scraps would be a dream.

[Holt's Cat]

Mason + Hill + Horry? Sold. If Ginobili's ankle injury is legit can they really count on him for the next 3 seasons? I'm not sure how Carter is so old at age 32 while Ginobili, only six months younger, has so much more time left on his body. Lest we forget that ankle...

[SenorSpur]

Mason fits well into the Spurs system..even better than expected and Hill has been the back-up PG they've been looking for since Speedy Claxton.
I can see why the Spurs FO don't want to give up those guys and lose some depth in the back court especially after last season.

As I've stated in other threads, the Spurs would be big fools in that they've filled a void with Mason and Hill. Now they're going to re-create the same void by trading them away. I just don't see the Spurs FO as being that damn foolish.

[baseline bum]

So the commitment to Carter would be $37 mil? That's not that bad.

Mason was a great pickup and Hill's a nice prospect...but that doesn't strike me as the best reason to nix the deal. What are we waiting for? The future is now, unless TD plans to play until he's 40.

If Manu's out for the season, moving Mason and Hill for Carter is a no-brainer; though I'd tell them they can have Horry and not Bowen+Oberto to make salaries match.

[Holt's Cat]

So the Spurs build the perfectly balanced team and don't make it out of the West, again.

Do you trust Manu's ankle to hold up for the next 2 to 3 seasons? But hey, at least they got that 10 minutes a night at point covered...

[coyotes_geek]

If Manu's out for the season, moving Mason and Hill for Carter is a no-brainer; though I'd tell them they can have Horry and not Bowen+Oberto to make salaries match.

The only one with a say as to who can have Horry is Horry.

[crc21209]

Any combo of Udoka, Vaughn, Horrys corpse, Oberto, and Bowen RIGHT at the deadline for either VC OR RJ and I am good.

[Holt's Cat]

The only one with a say as to who can have Horry is Horry.

Hey Rob, wanna fly to X one day for a million bucks? You won't even have to stay overnight.

[coyotes_geek]

Hey Rob, wanna fly to X one day for a million bucks? You won't even have to stay overnight.

Maybe he says yes. Maybe he says no thanks, I think I'll go sign with with a playoff contender and work on ring #8.

Also, IIRC Van Horn had to hang around with the Nets the rest of the year.

[MarHill]

As I've stated in other threads, the Spurs would be big fools in that they've filled a void with Mason and Hill. Now they're going to re-create the same void by trading them away. I just don't see the Spurs FO as being that damn foolish.

I agree, Senor Spur! :toast

They have filled a void with those two players and it would make no sense to give those up right now even for VC.

Like I've posted before....the real reason the Spurs didn't get to the Finals last year because they didn't have enough offensive firepower outside of the Big 3.

And they've been able to score the ball this season...yes their defense has suffered somewhat.

But its nice to see the ball go into the basket with some regularly!!!


:lol

[baseline bum]

Maybe he says yes. Maybe he says no thanks, I think I'll go sign with with a playoff contender and work on ring #8.

Also, IIRC Van Horn had to hang around with the Nets the rest of the year.

Van Horn had to be there 30 days I think. I'm guessing Rob won't have any problem sitting on a bench and watching a game 12 or 13 times for $5 million or so.

[SenorSpur]

I agree, Senor Spur! :toast

They have filled a void with those two players and it would make no sense to give those up right now even for VC.

Like I've posted before....the real reason the Spurs didn't get to the Finals last year because they didn't have enough offensive firepower outside of the Big 3.

And they've been able to score the ball this season...yes their defense has suffered somewhat.

But its nice to see the ball go into the basket with some regularly!!!


:lol

Very true.

Now if they could just add a player that would help them shore up their perimeter defense. :lol

[coyotes_geek]

Van Horn had to be there 30 days I think. I'm guessing Rob won't have any problem sitting on a bench and watching a game 12 or 13 times for $5 million or so.

Maybe, maybe not. Rob's made good money over the years. Maybe the chance for ring #8 is worth more than that.

In any event, the point I was trying to make is that I think it's a mistake to just assume that Horry will automatically agree to go to whatever crap team we're trying to heist a player from.

[MannyIsGod]

I think the Spurs are retarded for not wanting to deal both Mason and Hill.

[baseline bum]

Maybe, maybe not. Rob's made good money over the years. Maybe the chance for ring #8 is worth more than that.

In any event, the point I was trying to make is that I think it's a mistake to just assume that Horry will automatically agree to go to whatever crap team we're trying to heist a player from.

Rob's got a lot of rings too though. The fact that he hasn't signed anywhere yet seems to point to him knowing he could be in for a nice payday for nothing if the Spurs need to match salary.

[MarHill]

I think the Spurs are retarded for not wanting to deal both Mason and Hill.

They are not retarded for not wanting to deal Mason and Hill.

For reasons posted by Senor Spur and myself earlier....they have filled a void that was lacking for the past several seasons with these two players.

To give up these two players would create that void again and even if they got VC...you can't play him 48 minutes a night and you would lose your backcourt depth.

Everyone at the end of last season was saying that the Spurs needed to get younger and they did that. Now, people want their younger players (who have played very well) to be traded.

That's crazy!!

:lmao

[Mr. Body]

I also think they're retarded for not trading Hill and Mason.

[silverblackfan]

They are not retarded for not wanting to deal Mason and Hill.

For reasons posted by Senor Spur and myself earlier....they have filled a void that was lacking for the past several seasons with these two players.

To give up these two players would create that void again and even if they got VC...you can't play him 48 minutes a night and you would lose your backcourt depth.

Everyone at the end of last season was saying that the Spurs needed to get younger and they did that. Now, people want their younger players (who have played very well) to be traded.

That's crazy!!

:lmao

I agree. These two were key components while Manu was out before and give us a much deeper team when he is healthy. VC would be a nice over the top extra, but another athletic big would still be better. Without Manu, it will be tough no matter who they pull in. The guy is a wonder.

[MarHill]

I also think they're retarded for not trading Hill and Mason.


Nope, they are not!!

[SenorSpur]

Take one step forward, take 18 steps backwards. Some of you are forgetting how long it takes for new players to integrate into the Spurs system. Maybe you're also forgetting how long it took for the Spurs to find an adequate backup PG (Hill) and another sharpshooter (Mason)?

Above all else, you don't fill a void, only to turn around and create the same void again. Not only is that bad management - it's just plain stupid.

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs fans over value their role players all the time. This is nothing new. RMJ is a good player, Hill is a decent prospect. Neither should be a deal breakker for Vince Carter.

[MarHill]

Take one step forward, take 18 steps backwards. Some of you are forgetting how long it takes for new players to integrate into the Spurs system. Maybe you're also forgetting how long it took for the Spurs to find an adequate backup PG (Hill) and another sharpshooter (Mason)?

Above all else, you don't fill a void, only to turn around and create the same void again. Not only is that bad management - it's just plain stupid.

Yep!

It makes perfect sense to me!!

:toast

[Blackjack]

If the Spurs are to do a deal for Carter or Jefferson, I'd hope they'd go for Carter. He's the better player, and with that last year of his only having 4 million guaranteed, his contract isn't as ridiculous as Jefferson's. (R.J. is anything but a bargain, in terms of talent to price tag)

The fact that these two have been reported on, to this extent, in terms of players the Spurs are targeting, though? Well, it leaves me hope, that the Spurs might end up stealing one of my favorite non-Spurs (and someone much more reasonably priced) Caron Butler.

Hell, I haven't heard one damn thing about him being linked to the Spurs, and if history is any judge???

I guess a man can dream, right?:smokin

[MarHill]

Spurs fans over value their role players all the time. This is nothing new. RMJ is a good player, Hill is a decent prospect. Neither should be a deal breakker for Vince Carter.

It's not about overvaluing the role players.

It's about the Spurs finally filling a void they needed to and trading them even for VC would take them several steps backwards.

The reason the Lakers are good isn't only because of Kobe, Gasol, and Odom. The 2nd unit is good also and you need that during the regular season and good role players are important during the playoffs.

[Shastafarian]

Spurs fans over value their role players all the time. This is nothing new. RMJ is a good player, Hill is a decent prospect. Neither should be a deal breakker for Vince Carter.

It wasn't either. It was both. I guess you like Jacque Vaughn as the backup point guard and Michael Finley taking game deciding shots.

[MarHill]

It wasn't either. It was both. I guess you like Jacque Vaughn as the backup point guard and Michael Finley taking game deciding shots.


Thanks!

There is some common sense in this forum!!

:lmao

[Mr. Body]

You can pick up a Mason or a Hill any time. Hill isn't even that valuable - maybe in a few years... How often can you get a Vince Carter? Maybe, maybe once in a decade?

This is a no-brainer.

[Mr. Body]

You have Carter, you have him for the next two years, too. You can fill in role players this summer and the next.

Look, Carter is the caliber of player Ginobili and Parker are. Mason and Hill? Definitely not.

[Holt's Cat]

It wasn't either. It was both. I guess you like Jacque Vaughn as the backup point guard and Michael Finley taking game deciding shots.

I like Vince Carter joining the Big 3 before the window closes.

[Shastafarian]

You have Carter, you have him for the next two years, too.

Those two years when he's making $33 million. No thanks. Not for a promising young guard and a guy who can hit shots under pressure.

[wisnub]

Well then the spurs are not going to win a championship plain and fucken simple, I hate to say it but its the truth.

Amen...

[Shastafarian]

I like Vince Carter joining the Big 3 before the window closes.

Can Vince play point guard? How about defense?

[SequSpur]

Vince Carter > George Gervin + Avery Johnson + Sean Elliott + Coyote + Dancing Usher...

anyone outside of duncan and parker should be moved to get this deal done.

[Shastafarian]

THERE IS NO DEAL!!!

Did that megathread not get through to anyone?

[Holt's Cat]

Can Vince play point guard? How about defense?

Neither of those two are great defenders. The Spurs managed to win a title with Brent Barry in the friggin' rotation.

So let's see...the Spurs should pass on the opportunity to add a top flight scoring wing because of a backup point guard and a lesser talented wing?

[MarHill]

You can pick up a Mason or a Hill any time. Hill isn't even that valuable - maybe in a few years... How often can you get a Vince Carter? Maybe, maybe once in a decade?

This is a no-brainer.

First of all...you have already judged Hill's career prematurely. I guess he's shown there was a reason the Spurs got him 26th in this year's draft.

Second, Mason has been everything this team ask for and more. And it's no brainer why the Spurs don't want to give up them.

But if you want Jacque Vaughn backing up TP...they will be same situation as last year.

And if you can good role players to fit your team so easily...then I have some beachfront property in North Dakota I want to sell you.

[Holt's Cat]

Lest we forget a rookie backup point who is still learning the position. I'm not sure why Hill is suddenly on track to make Springfield. Oh wait, it's February...

[Shastafarian]

Neither of those two are great defenders. The Spurs managed to win a title with Brent Barry in the friggin' rotation.George Hill is one of the better defenders on the team. He makes mistakes but has loads of potential.


So let's see...the Spurs should pass on the opportunity to add a top flight scoring wing because of a backup point guard and a lesser talented wing?
Um, yeah. Oh wait I forgot Vince is known as an outstanding teammate who always gives it his all and never plays poorly! I'd rather have two good components than a risky and expensive gamble.

[Holt's Cat]

First of all...you have already judged Hill's career prematurely. I guess he's shown there was a reason the Spurs got him 26th in this year's draft.

Second, Mason has been everything this team ask for and more. And it's no brainer why the Spurs don't want to give up them.

But if you want Jacque Vaughn backing up TP...they will be same situation as last year.

And if you can good role players to fit your team so easily...then I have some beachfront property in North Dakota I want to sell you.

That's redneck dumb.

[Shastafarian]

Lest we forget a rookie backup point who is still learning the position. I'm not sure why Hill is suddenly on track to make Springfield. Oh wait, it's February...

Carter is a hall of famer? Damn, ya learn something new every day.

[Holt's Cat]

George Hill is one of the better defenders on the team. He makes mistakes but has loads of potential.


Matt Bonner has potential.




Um, yeah. Oh wait I forgot Vince is known as an outstanding teammate who always gives it his all and never plays poorly! I'd rather have two good components than a risky and expensive gamble.

I'll take a gamble that's put up 25 a night or whatever for his career and is the same age as old gimpy ankles Ginobili. What exactly are we waiting for? 2015?

[wisnub]

Those two years when he's making $33 million. No thanks. Not for a promising young guard and a guy who can hit shots under pressure.

I dont even know if you even read the actual thread...it is said Spurs is not willing to give up Mason or Hill....basically Spurs only offer scrubs or oldies

[Holt's Cat]

Carter is a hall of famer? Damn, ya learn something new every day.

Probably. Hill certainly is not. Neither is Mason. Win now, worry later.

[MarHill]

Neither of those two are great defenders. The Spurs managed to win a title with Brent Barry in the friggin' rotation.

So let's see...the Spurs should pass on the opportunity to add a top flight scoring wing because of a backup point guard and a lesser talented wing?

Uh..the Spurs wanted these players for a reason. They got younger...which everybody said they should do and they have filled that void.

Even if you got VC...you would still have the same problem that you addressed in the off-season. That makes no sense!

The Spurs should have went for him in the off-season then.

You must have some depth and to get rid of that and put your team in a tough financial spot by taking on VC's huge contract is crazy.

If they can get VC w/o those two players...then great!!

[MarHill]

Probably. Hill certainly is not. Neither is Mason. Win now, worry later.


It's easy to spend other people's money....

But it is a business and every team is trying to keep themselves from paying the luxury tax and the Spurs are no different!!

[MarHill]

I dont even know if you even read the actual thread...it is said Spurs is not willing to give up Mason or Hill....basically Spurs only offer scrubs or oldies

I do know that...but I just feel like debating people who think it's crazy for the Spurs to not include Mason and Hill in the deal for VC.

I can clearly see why the Spurs won't do it!

[Holt's Cat]

Uh..the Spurs wanted these players for a reason. They got younger...which everybody said they should do and they have filled that void.

Even if you got VC...you would still have the same problem that you addressed in the off-season. That makes no sense!

The Spurs should have went for him in the off-season then.

You must have some depth and to get rid of that and put your team in a tough financial spot by taking on VC's huge contract is crazy.

If they can get VC w/o those two players...then great!!


So because those players were marginal upgrades over who they replaced the Spurs shouldn't trade them? So let's see...would I rather have someone who plays 10 minutes a night or someone who can play 35+ and give you 20 a night from the wing, especially considering that your scoring wing threat is having recurring ankle problems?

We saw what happened last postseason when the Spurs couldn't count on Ginobili. Hey Timmy, sorry we didn't get you enough firepower but isn't it nice to have George Hill for 10 minutes a night?

[Holt's Cat]

It's easy to spend other people's money....

But it is a business and every team is trying to keep themselves from paying the luxury tax and the Spurs are no different!!

ROFL. Which is why they've been after every high priced talent on the market this year. They are clearly out to make a move.

If you're a fan of the Spurs' financials, bully for you. I'd rather see them win.

[MarHill]

So because those players were marginal upgrades over who they replaced the Spurs shouldn't trade them? So let's see...would I rather have someone who plays 10 minutes a night or someone who can play 35+ and give you 20 a night from the wing, especially considering that your scoring wing threat is having recurring ankle problems?

We saw what happened last postseason when the Spurs couldn't count on Ginobili. Hey Timmy, sorry we didn't get you enough firepower but isn't it nice to have George Hill for 10 minutes a night?

Uh..Mason has shown he can drop 20 points a night. He did earlier this season when Manu was out and Tuesday night in NY.

I like VC.....for someone who will make 33 million in the next 2 seasons and to lose your backcourt depth as well....will not solve the problem.

[MannyIsGod]

Those two years when he's making $33 million. No thanks. Not for a promising young guard and a guy who can hit shots under pressure.

WTF do you care what he's making? He's obviously better than the other 2 combined and its not even close.

[MannyIsGod]

Uh..Mason has shown he can drop 20 points a night. He did earlier this season when Manu was out and Tuesday night in NY.

I like VC.....for someone who will make 33 million in the next 2 seasons and to lose your backcourt depth as well....will not solve the problem.

Like I said - Spurs fan overvalue their role players

[Holt's Cat]

Uh..Mason has shown he can drop 20 points a night. He did earlier this season when Manu was out and Tuesday night in NY.

I like VC.....for someone who will make 33 million in the next 2 seasons and to lose your backcourt depth as well....will not solve the problem.


A few times doesn't mean jack. Hill isn't that much to write home about. You guys are severely overrating those players.

I like having as much scoring as possible over the next two years of Duncan's career, especially now that Ginobili's durability is in question. That's the major issue here.

[Shastafarian]

Probably. Hill certainly is not. Neither is Mason. Win now, worry later.

LOL Vince Carter is a hall of famer. Hilarious

[MarHill]

ROFL. Which is why they've been after every high priced talent on the market this year. They are clearly out to make a move.

If you're a fan of the Spurs' financials, bully for you. I'd rather see them win.

Hmmm.....

3 of the last 6 championships and the last Western Conference team to win a title.

No worse than the 2nd round playoffs since 2000 and avg at least 55 wins a season during that time.

And considered one of the best run franchises in all of pro sports.

I don't believe winning is an issue. Talk to Dallas and Phoenix about that.

Speaking of Phoenix...look at that franchise when they overextended themselves in a trade. Interesting!!

Also..look at Dallas as well.

You have to look at the finances if you are running a team. Fantasy Basketball doesn't work in real life!!!

[Shastafarian]

WTF do you care what he's making? He's obviously better than the other 2 combined and its not even close.

Do you know what the salary cap is and how many men make up a roster?

[MarHill]

A few times doesn't mean jack. Hill isn't that much to write home about. You guys are severely overrating those players.

I like having as much scoring as possible over the next two years of Duncan's career, especially now that Ginobili's durability is in question. That's the major issue here.

I'm not overvaluing these players...once again.

But they have shown their value to this team and the Spurs see that value and I can see why they don't want to give up them even in a deal for VC.

[MannyIsGod]

Do you know what the salary cap is and how many men make up a roster?

You're a fool. Do you know that the Spurs can sign players to minimum deals to fill out the roster?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Like I said - Spurs fan overvalue their role players

Couldn't agree more.

I just hope Mason can average double figures come playoff time

[MarHill]

WTF do you care what he's making? He's obviously better than the other 2 combined and its not even close.

The Spurs care and its a business not fantasy basketball!!

Sheesh!!!

:bang

[Shastafarian]

You're a fool. Do you know that the Spurs can sign players to minimum deals to fill out the roster?

:lol

Sounds like it would be an AWESOME team!

[SenorSpur]

Why are the Fakers so tough? Because they have depth. Why did the Celtics win the title? Because of their bench was just as vital to them as their Big Three. Do you recall a Spurs championship team that didn't have solid contributing bench? When is the last time you've seen a team win a title with a bench full of scrubs? I'll answer it for you. Never.

As MarHill stated, if you want Jacque Vaughn as your primary backup PG and Finley playing 30 mins a night, you still wont win.

You can't simply ravage the bench of contributing role players to sign a great player and expect that trade to automatically put the team over the top. It simply doesn't work that way. You can't with with a rotation of 6 players.

Besides, Carter isn't the only move the Spurs can make. It just seems to be the one that has gotten Spurs fans pants to go crazy. Still believe there is something else brewing.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Stop over rating Hill. You people are fucking lunatics.

[MarHill]

You're a fool. Do you know that the Spurs can sign players to minimum deals to fill out the roster?

Yeah...they could but they will be players that are borderline NBA players at best and everyone on this forum goes nuts when Jacque Vaughn plays in a game even if the Spurs are up by 20.

Sheesh!!

The fact you are not looking at this from the Spurs' perspective...you have clearly missed it!!

[Slinkyman]

:lol

Sounds like it would be an AWESOME team!

Have you seen Boston's payroll? 3 players above 18 mil and the rest at 4 million or less most of which are at 1 mil. Last time i checked they're the defending champs...

[MarHill]

Stop over rating Hill. You people are fucking lunatics.


Again..no one is over rating Hill.

But he has value to this team and it amazes that spoiled Spurs fans can't see that!

[Holt's Cat]

LOL Vince Carter is a hall of famer. Hilarious

How is he not? He's going to end up with over 20K points for his career.

[Holt's Cat]

I'm not overvaluing these players...once again.

But they have shown their value to this team and the Spurs see that value and I can see why they don't want to give up them even in a deal for VC.

So their value to this team has been that they're marginally better than Jacque Vaughn and Brent Barry. Grand.

[Shastafarian]

Have you seen Boston's payroll? 3 players above 18 mil and the rest at 4 million or less most of which are at 1 mil. Last time i checked they're the defending champs...

They're also well over the luxury tax threshold.

[MarHill]

Have you seen Boston's payroll? 3 players above 18 mil and the rest at 4 million or less most of which are at 1 mil. Last time i checked they're the defending champs...

Yeah...they have been looking for depth all season even to the point they are interested in Stephen Marbury.

Losing P.J Brown and James Posey were big losses for that team. And good role players for the right team are essential....

[MarHill]

So their value to this team has been that they're marginally better than Jacque Vaughn and Brent Barry. Grand.

But they fit this team and that's what matters!!

Yikes!!!

[Holt's Cat]

Have you seen Boston's payroll? 3 players above 18 mil and the rest at 4 million or less most of which are at 1 mil. Last time i checked they're the defending champs...

Did you watch the last postseason? A non-hobbled scoring swingman would've meant #5.

[Holt's Cat]

But they fit this team and that's what matters!!

Yikes!!!

Matt Bonner fits this team. Yikes indeed.

[MarHill]

Did you watch the last postseason? A non-hobbled scoring swingman would've meant #5.

You just made my point!!

If the Spurs have someone else outside of the Big 3 who could score...like Mason that would have helped them.

So in the off season...the Spurs decided to go younger and they got backcourt depth. They addressed a need!! Amazing!!!

[Holt's Cat]

Failure to communicate: George Hill believes he was whistled for a key foul late in Tuesday's loss to the Knicks, simply by way of miscommunication.

The Spurs were behind by three with 25 seconds in overtime, and Hill and Bruce Bowen had Wilson Chandler trapped in the backcourt. The ball squirted loose and into Bowen's arms at about the time an official's whistle blew.

“I was saying ‘Hit, hit,'” Hill said, referring to the name of the Spurs defensive call. “I think the ref thought I was saying I was hitting (Chandler).”

In late-game situations, it is common practice for teams to inform the officials when they plan to commit a foul to stop the clock.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Ginobili_out_for_remainder_of_road_trip.html

[Slinkyman]

Yeah...they have been looking for depth all season even to the point they are interested in Stephen Marbury.

Losing P.J Brown and James Posey were big losses for that team. And good role players for the right team are essential....

Seriously, losing PJ Brown was a huge loss? they're 44 and 11 i don't think they're missing PJ fucking Brown right now.

[Holt's Cat]

You just made my point!!

If the Spurs have someone else outside of the Big 3 who could score...like Mason that would have helped them.

So in the off season...the Spurs decided to go younger and they got backcourt depth. They addressed a need!! Amazing!!!

ROFL. Barry provided the Mason output last postseason. Next.

[Shastafarian]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Ginobili_out_for_remainder_of_road_trip.html

:lol TRADE HIM!!!!

[MarHill]

Matt Bonner fits this team. Yikes indeed.


Again...we can go around and around with this.

But I can see exactly why the Spurs won't give up Mason and Hill in a deal for VC.

If you refuse to see it or don't want to......then so be it!!

[Spursfan092120]

Have we decided completely against David Lee of the Knicks? The President and staff have decided they want to get rid of him and Nate so they can go after Lebron next year. Probably get him for next to nothing.

[Holt's Cat]

Again...we can go around and around with this.

But I can see exactly why the Spurs won't give up Mason and Hill in a deal for VC.

If you refuse to see it or don't want to......then so be it!!


Because Peter can't sell that many CATs, most likely.

[Shastafarian]

ROFL. Barry provided the Mason output last postseason. Next.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=42&year=2008

Considering Mason hasn't even seen the postseason yet, it's hard to compare. But Brent Barry's performance wasn't THAT great.

[Holt's Cat]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=42&year=2008

Considering Mason hasn't even seen the postseason yet

That's reassuring.



, it's hard to compare. But Brent Barry's performance wasn't THAT great.

Um, yeah.

[MarHill]

Seriously, losing PJ Brown was a huge loss? they're 44 and 11 i don't think they're missing PJ fucking Brown right now.

Then why every analyst and members on their own team have spoken about it and people from the Celtics went down to New Orleans to talk PJ out of retirement.

Yes...they have a great record!! But the playoffs are about matchups and the Cavs frontline is bigger than the Celts and they will miss his size in that playoff matchup.

Also, they want Joe Smith for the same reason to fill the void that P.J Brown has left.

[crc21209]

Spurs chances of trading may have gotten better now....with Chandler going back to NO. Spurs can go in on Wilcox or Smith or even get OKC involved in a 3 team trade with Jersey where the Spurs could get VC without having to deal Mase or Hill.

[Shastafarian]

Um, yeah.

He had a couple good games.

[MarHill]

That's reassuring.



Um, yeah.

When Mason plays well in the postseason...you will be one of the first fans going nuts about his performance.

[MaverickRipper]

Why are the Fakers so tough? Because they have depth. Why did the Celtics win the title? Because of their bench was just as vital to them as their Big Three. Do you recall a Spurs championship team that didn't have solid contributing bench? When is the last time you've seen a team win a title with a bench full of scrubs? I'll answer it for you. Never.

As MarHill stated, if you want Jacque Vaughn as your primary backup PG and Finley playing 30 mins a night, you still wont win.

You can't simply ravage the bench of contributing role players to sign a great player and expect that trade to automatically put the team over the top. It simply doesn't work that way. You can't with with a rotation of 6 players.

Besides, Carter isn't the only move the Spurs can make. It just seems to be the one that has gotten Spurs fans pants to go crazy. Still believe there is something else brewing.

Can I have some of what your smoking?

The Celtics bench was James Posey, the corpses of Sam Cassell and PJ Brown, and Leon Powe. Wow, thats an amazing bench. Truly.

How the hell does the trade gut our bench? Mason is a starter (replaced with Carter), Bowen would be back. So what, we lose Hill and maybe Oberto?

....George Hill, whose averaging what, 12-15 minutes a game since Tony came back and like 5 points? That's the answer to our bench woes? Oberto is just a corpse right now as well. These guys are the answer to our bench?

Not to mention, come playoffs, not a chance in hell Hill sees the final 6 minutes of the game. Carter on the other hand.....

Post trade we have a solid 8.

Parker
Carter
Manu
Duncan
Bonner
Finely
Bowen
Kurt

That's a pretty damn good 8 man playoff rotation. Let's not forget, Carter can also play in the second unit with Manu and those two alone can carry the entire scoring load. All's vaughn has to do is dribble the damn ball up.

On top of all that, what role player wouldn't want to come sign with us next season to have a shot to play with 4 allstars?


Including them for Carter, assuming we get Bruce back, really is a no brainer.

[Slinkyman]

Then why every analyst and members on their own team have spoken about it and people from the Celtics went down to New Orleans to talk PJ out of retirement.

Yes...they have a great record!! But the playoffs are about matchups and the Cavs frontline is bigger than the Celts and they will miss his size in that playoff matchup.

Also, they want Joe Smith for the same reason to fill the void that P.J Brown has left.

PJ Brown played in 18 games last year averaging 2PPG, holy shit how are they managing to live without that production. BTW in the playoffs he upped his avg to 3 PPG so yeah they really need to replace that. Perkins, Powe and Davis are shit compared to PJ Brown.

[Shastafarian]

Is this a good 8 man roster?

Shaq
Tyson Chandler
LaMarcus Aldridge
Rasheed Wallace
Al Harrington
Joe Smith
Pau Gasol
Andres Biedrins

[MaNu4Tres]

Maverick Ripper speaks truth.

[Holt's Cat]

He had a couple good games.

Which is perhaps what we'd see out of Mason. Spurs needed more than that.

[MaverickRipper]

Is this a good 8 man roster?

Shaq
Tyson Chandler
LaMarcus Aldridge
Rasheed Wallace
Al Harrington
Joe Smith
Pau Gasol
Andres Biedrins

Mine has 4 All-stars, and 4 role players.

Yours just sucks.

[Shastafarian]

Which is perhaps what we'd see out of Mason. Spurs needed more than that.

So you do want to gamble. I don't see how you can know Carter would be worth two of our better role players.

[crc21209]

My two cents on the Vince Carter thing: Rod Thorn drives a hard bargain, and he usually holds firm at the deadline until the other guy decides whether to blink. Two years ago, he wouldn't send Jason Kidd to the Lakers unless they sent Andrew Bynum back. Last year, he wanted two unprotected No. 1s along with Devin Harris from the Mavs, and he got them. And on this one, my gut tells me that if Thorn can get the Blazers to give him Travis Outlaw, Rudy Fernandez, $3 million and a bunch of those extra second-round picks the Blazers are holding (their own, New York's and Denver's in 2009; their own and the Bulls' in 2010) along with Raef LaFrentz's expiring contract, the Nets will go for it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218


No way in hell the Blazers give up Rudy, I think the Spurs should be the one to make Rod Thorn blink and make him give us VC for scraps, no Hill, no Mason, last minute deal. Do it!

[Shastafarian]

Mine has 4 All-stars, and 4 role players.

Yours just sucks.

I see my point went over your head.

[Holt's Cat]

So you do want to gamble. I don't see how you can know Carter would be worth two of our better role players.

Gamble? Right. The Spurs would be getting a legit top flight scoring wing for two of their role players.

[ManuTP9]

Can I have some of what your smoking?

The Celtics bench was James Posey, the corpses of Sam Cassell and PJ Brown, and Leon Powe. Wow, thats an amazing bench. Truly.

How the hell does the trade gut our bench? Mason is a starter (replaced with Carter), Bowen would be back. So what, we lose Hill and maybe Oberto?

....George Hill, whose averaging what, 12-15 minutes a game since Tony came back and like 5 points? That's the answer to our bench woes? Oberto is just a corpse right now as well. These guys are the answer to our bench?

Not to mention, come playoffs, not a chance in hell Hill sees the final 6 minutes of the game. Carter on the other hand.....

Post trade we have a solid 8.

Parker
Carter
Manu
Duncan
Bonner
Finely
Bowen
Kurt

That's a pretty damn good 8 man playoff rotation. Let's not forget, Carter can also play in the second unit with Manu and those two alone can carry the entire scoring load. All's vaughn has to do is dribble the damn ball up.

On top of all that, what role player wouldn't want to come sign with us next season to have a shot to play with 4 allstars?


Including them for Carter, assuming we get Bruce back, really is a no brainer.

this guy is correct

[MaverickRipper]

So you do want to gamble. I don't see how you can know Carter would be worth two of our better role players.

Considering hill plays 12-15 minutes, scores about 5 points and won't see the floor in the end of a big game in the post season.

The real question is basically: Mason or Vince?

I love Mason, but I'll take the allstar with most second game winners in the past few years, only being LeBron.

[Shastafarian]

Gamble? Right. The Spurs would be getting a legit top flight scoring wing for two of their role players.

I forgot Carter was a proven playoff performer. I seem to remember something about a graduation ceremony...

[Shastafarian]

Considering hill plays 12-15 minutes, scores about 5 points and won't see the floor in the end of a big game in the post season.

The real question is basically: Mason or Vince?

I love Mason, but I'll take the allstar with most second game winners in the past few years, only being LeBron.

Look back and see if you can understand what I was trying to get at with my 8 man roster post.

[Holt's Cat]

I forgot Carter was a proven playoff performer. I seem to remember something about a graduation ceremony...

Just like Ray Ray and KG weren't...

[MarHill]

Can I have some of what your smoking?

The Celtics bench was James Posey, the corpses of Sam Cassell and PJ Brown, and Leon Powe. Wow, thats an amazing bench. Truly.

How the hell does the trade gut our bench? Mason is a starter (replaced with Carter), Bowen would be back. So what, we lose Hill and maybe Oberto?

....George Hill, whose averaging what, 12-15 minutes a game since Tony came back and like 5 points? That's the answer to our bench woes? Oberto is just a corpse right now as well. These guys are the answer to our bench?

Not to mention, come playoffs, not a chance in hell Hill sees the final 6 minutes of the game. Carter on the other hand.....

Post trade we have a solid 8.

Parker
Carter
Manu
Duncan
Bonner
Finely
Bowen
Kurt

That's a pretty damn good 8 man playoff rotation. Let's not forget, Carter can also play in the second unit with Manu and those two alone can carry the entire scoring load. All's vaughn has to do is dribble the damn ball up.

On top of all that, what role player wouldn't want to come sign with us next season to have a shot to play with 4 allstars?


Including them for Carter, assuming we get Bruce back, really is a no brainer.

For the Celts...that bench was good for that team and to dismiss their contributions means you were not looking at their games closely.

Cassell brought some stability to PG position behind Rondo and Posey could guard 2, 3, and 4 and hit three pointers and P.J. Brown gave them extra length in the 2nd unit and had a veteran presence with playoff experience.

While not......big names they fit what Celts needed last season and even with their great record so far they have acknowledge to missing Posey and Brown.

Also Powe was very effective against the Lakers in the finals.

Now...by the fact that Hill has played earlier in the season and has earned Pop's trust he will get minutes in the playoffs and Mason is a solid shooter and will help space the floor.

Yes, VC is talented and would be a nice addition. But to lose their backcourt depth and eat his huge contract would be bad for the team.

You have no back-up PG in your scenario and yes Manu could play PG...but it's very different than someone who has played the position regularly than someone who is filling in a few minutes a game out of necessity.

The right role players are key for a championship contender and the Spurs have filled a void that was missing and they are not easy to find.

[Shastafarian]

Just like Ray Ray and KG weren't...

So you wanna gamble then

[Holt's Cat]

Spurs didn't lose a shot at #5 because they didn't have a backup point who could shoot. They lost because they had a swingman who couldn't put up the points.

[SScarrJ]

I see my point went over your head.

The point being that MaverickRippers team has a shot at winning a 7 game series vs anyone in the NBA. The point that MaverickRippers team could add 1 or 2 cheap Veterans in the off season and be a legit Title contender? What point were you trying to make when you threw together a fantasy team of 7 footers?

[SenorSpur]

Can I have some of what your smoking?

The Celtics bench was James Posey, the corpses of Sam Cassell and PJ Brown, and Leon Powe. Wow, thats an amazing bench. Truly.

How the hell does the trade gut our bench? Mason is a starter (replaced with Carter), Bowen would be back. So what, we lose Hill and maybe Oberto?

....George Hill, whose averaging what, 12-15 minutes a game since Tony came back and like 5 points? That's the answer to our bench woes? Oberto is just a corpse right now as well. These guys are the answer to our bench?

Not to mention, come playoffs, not a chance in hell Hill sees the final 6 minutes of the game. Carter on the other hand.....

Post trade we have a solid 8.

Parker
Carter
Manu
Duncan
Bonner
Finely
Bowen
Kurt

That's a pretty damn good 8 man playoff rotation. Let's not forget, Carter can also play in the second unit with Manu and those two alone can carry the entire scoring load. All's vaughn has to do is dribble the damn ball up.

On top of all that, what role player wouldn't want to come sign with us next season to have a shot to play with 4 allstars?


Including them for Carter, assuming we get Bruce back, really is a no brainer.
Look I admit Carter is a borderline great player and would be a significant upgrade. But where is all this money coming from? If the Spurs make a trade where they're paying double-digit millions of dollars to four players, you're not going to have much left but minimum salaried players.

If you believe you're going to be able to count on Vaughn and Finley as key playoff contributors, then you're the one smoking, my friend.

[Holt's Cat]

So you wanna gamble then

You want to gamble on a rookie backup point and an Argentine ankle that failed last year.

[Shastafarian]

Spurs didn't lose a shot at #5 because they didn't have a backup point who could shoot. They lost because they had a swingman who couldn't put up the points.

You mean like Mason? I'm gonna create a new group called "I Don't Mind Having Jacque Vaughn as My Backup Point Guard". You guys should join.

[MarHill]

PJ Brown played in 18 games last year averaging 2PPG, holy shit how are they managing to live without that production. BTW in the playoffs he upped his avg to 3 PPG so yeah they really need to replace that. Perkins, Powe and Davis are shit compared to PJ Brown.

And yeah they dont win game 7 against the Cavs last year EC Semifinals without his contribution!

It's funny how the team have publicly acknowledge what his role meant to the team and they wanted him back and some people want to dismiss that!!

Amazing!!!!

[Holt's Cat]

If you believe you're going to be able to count on Vaughn and Finley as key playoff contributors, then you're the one smoking, my friend.

Yet somehow Mason and Hill are these key playoff contributors.

[mudyez]

Have we decided completely against David Lee of the Knicks? The President and staff have decided they want to get rid of him and Nate so they can go after Lebron next year. Probably get him for next to nothing.

source?...all I ever heard, is that they want to keep him or get jeffries contract of the boos with him

I dont see us taking a contract like jeffries and we dont have pieces to sweeten it otherwise....I'd do a trade for lee in a heartbeat...but I dont see him going for nothing

[Holt's Cat]

You mean like Mason? I'm gonna create a new group called "I Don't Mind Having Jacque Vaughn as My Backup Point Guard". You guys should join.

Mason = Barry = a few nice moments, capped with a 5 game exit.

[Shastafarian]

You want to gamble on a rookie backup point and an Argentine ankle that failed last year.

More than a 32 year old, recent adolescent, who will be making $33 million over the next two years? Yeah. If manu is out even carter won't be able to help. So I don't see much use in trading away Hill and/or Mason.

[K-State Spur]

Mason + Hill + Horry? Sold. If Ginobili's ankle injury is legit can they really count on him for the next 3 seasons? I'm not sure how Carter is so old at age 32 while Ginobili, only six months younger, has so much more time left on his body. Lest we forget that ankle...

If Manu's out, we're not winning the championship even with VC. Don't trade away two of the best young finds we've had years (and I realize that Mason isn't that young - but he should be productive through the rest of the Duncan era) in a panic move.

If there's a trade that makes sense - you do it. But you do it completely independently of whether or not Manu is hurt. In fact, Manu's injury should make the team even more hesitant to give away any of the productive young players for a big name.

[MarHill]

You mean like Mason? I'm gonna create a new group called "I Don't Mind Having Jacque Vaughn as My Backup Point Guard". You guys should join.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

They will be the first ones going nuts on this forum about Vaughn!

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Spur|n|Austin]

The point being that MaverickRippers team has a shot at winning a 7 game series vs anyone in the NBA. The point that MaverickRippers team could add 1 or 2 cheap Veterans in the off season and be a legit Title contender? What point were you trying to make when you threw together a fantasy team of 7 footers?

I also have no idea what point you were trying to make with that big man team of yours, other than that you were saying we need a big?

[Shastafarian]

Mason = Barry :rollin

Thanks I needed a good laugh


= a few nice moments, capped with a 5 game exit.
I get that you wanna gamble. But I'd rather stick with a group that has chemistry and has shown they can win.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Thorn and the nets are just being too greedy.....fuck them, dont help them clear salary......hope they dont sign lebron also in 2010, so they can continue to suck along with VC contract.....

[Holt's Cat]

If Manu's out, we're not winning the championship even with VC. Don't trade away two of the best young finds we've had years (and I realize that Mason isn't that young - but he should be productive through the rest of the Duncan era) in a panic move.

If there's a trade that makes sense - you do it. But you do it completely independently of whether or not Manu is hurt. In fact, Manu's injury should make the team even more hesitant to give away any of the productive young players for a big name.

I'm glad we're going to be pissing away the rest of Duncan's prime waiting for tomorrow. How about Manu isn't out for the rest of the season? Stack the rotation and win now.

[MaverickRipper]

For the Celts...that bench was good for that team and to dismiss their contributions means you were not looking at their games closely.

Cassell brought some stability to PG position behind Rondo and Posey could guard 2, 3, and 4 and hit three pointers and P.J. Brown gave them extra length in the 2nd unit and had a veteran presence with playoff experience.

While not......big names they fit what Celts needed last season and even with their great record so far they have acknowledge to missing Posey and Brown.

Also Powe was very effective against the Lakers in the finals.

Now...by the fact that Hill has played earlier in the season and has earned Pop's trust he will get minutes in the playoffs and Mason is a solid shooter and will help space the floor.

Yes, VC is talented and would be a nice addition. But to lose their backcourt depth and eat his huge contract would be bad for the team.

You have no back-up PG in your scenario and yes Manu could play PG...but it's very different than someone who has played the position regularly than someone who is filling in a few minutes a game out of necessity.

The right role players are key for a championship contender and the Spurs have filled a void that was missing and they are not easy to find.

Posey was key, but I'll be damned if the Celtics wouldn't of traded any 2 of those other guys for an allstar.

We don't lose much depth at all. Vince replaces Mason, but can do a lot more.

We lose a back up point who plays 12-15 minutes and won't play in the big minutes of a game anyway.

All Vaughn has to do is dribble the ball up because we can keep one Vince/Parker/Tim in the second unit with Manu, taking the scoring load off Manu.

But Hill's averaging like 5 points anyway, so not like he's helping in that department anyway. Not to mention, Carter has a great post up game, which helps role players a lot.

So again it comes down to back up point who will play 18-20 minutes (tops) in the post season and a great role player or an Allstar

Not to mention, post-trade we still have a solid 8 man rotation.

[MaNu4Tres]

I forgot Carter was a proven playoff performer. I seem to remember something about a graduation ceremony...

Carter has never had a team around him worth a shit.

You guys seem to forget Tony has 3 more years on his contract( meaning Hill will never start or play significant minutes during Tim's last stand of 4 years)...Getting rid of Hill shouldn't be something to stress on about considering he will never play in big games. Tim has 4 years left to win. You try to maximize those 4 years at all possible. Keeping someone who will play 12-15 minutes a game AT MOST come APRIL and May is stupid if you have the chance at acquiring a bonified star who can score in all ways ( unlike mason), and shoot the 3 at 40 percent as well. Vaughn may be our back up point and bring the ball up 10 minutes a game during the regular season but in the playoffs that will simply not be the case as Pop used Manu last year at back up point in the playoffs...


So in theory MaverickRipper knows what hes talking about. All you other fans who are against getting rid of hill and mason are just blind.

[MarHill]

If Manu's out, we're not winning the championship even with VC. Don't trade away two of the best young finds we've had years (and I realize that Mason isn't that young - but he should be productive through the rest of the Duncan era) in a panic move.

If there's a trade that makes sense - you do it. But you do it completely independently of whether or not Manu is hurt. In fact, Manu's injury should make the team even more hesitant to give away any of the productive young players for a big name.

Thank you!!
:toast

[Holt's Cat]

:rollin

Thanks I needed a good laugh


My bad. Brent's no longer a Spur so he sucks, but whatever marginal talent sporting the Silver & Black is magically 10x the player he'd be on any other team.




I get that you wanna gamble. But I'd rather stick with a group that has chemistry and has shown they can win.

It's not about gambling. It's about doing what it takes to win now instead of pissing away your opportunity to win more titles for 'tomorrow'.

[Shastafarian]

Carter has never had a team around him worth a shit.

You guys seem to forget Tony has 3 more years on his contract( meaning Hill will never start or play significant minutes during Tim's last stand of 4 years)...Getting rid of Hill shouldn't be something to stress on about considering he will never play in big games. Tim has 4 years left to win. You try to maximize those 4 years at all possible. Keeping someone who will play 12-15 minutes a game AT MOST come APRIL and May is stupid if you have the chance at acquiring a bonified star who can score in all ways ( unlike mason), and shoot the 3 at 40 percent as well. Vaughn may be our back up point and bring the ball up 10 minutes a game during the regular season but in the playoffs that will simply not be the case as Pop used Manu last year at back up point in the playoffs...


So in theory MaverickRipper knows what hes talking about. All you other players who are against getting rid of hill and mason are just blind.
I guess we don't even need a second unit then right? Hill can play point or the 2 in some cases. He's a good smaller defender. But no. Let's trade him because he's not a starter.

[SenorSpur]

If Manu's out, we're not winning the championship even with VC. Don't trade away two of the best young finds we've had years (and I realize that Mason isn't that young - but he should be productive through the rest of the Duncan era) in a panic move.

If there's a trade that makes sense - you do it. But you do it completely independently of whether or not Manu is hurt. In fact, Manu's injury should make the team even more hesitant to give away any of the productive young players for a big name.

there it is right there. Nuff said. :toast

I still don't believe VC is the target. This is just a typical CIA Pop smokescreen.

[MarHill]

Posey was key, but I'll be damned if the Celtics wouldn't of traded any 2 of those other guys for an allstar.

We don't lose much depth at all. Vince replaces Mason, but can do a lot more.

We lose a back up point who plays 12-15 minutes and won't play in the big minutes of a game anyway.

All Vaughn has to do is dribble the ball up because we can keep one Vince/Parker/Tim in the second unit with Manu, taking the scoring load off Manu.

But Hill's averaging like 5 points anyway, so not like he's helping in that department anyway. Not to mention, Carter has a great post up game, which helps role players a lot.

So again it comes down to back up point who will play 18-20 minutes (tops) in the post season and a great role player or an Allstar

Not to mention, post-trade we still have a solid 8 man rotation.

Again, but they didnt and the Celts said publicly what those role players to the team last season. It's seem people want to dismiss that fact.

Teams find role players to fit their team and when you do they become valuable to that team..especially if you are championship contender like the Spurs.

[Holt's Cat]

More than a 32 year old, recent adolescent, who will be making $33 million over the next two years? Yeah. If manu is out even carter won't be able to help. So I don't see much use in trading away Hill and/or Mason.

So we're counting on a true recent adolescent who is still learning the 1 to actually play the 1 in the postseason. Who gives a shit what Carter makes? He's better than those two jokers combined. Stop falling in love with Spurs just because they're Spurs.

[MaverickRipper]

Look I admit Carter is a borderline great player and would be a significant upgrade. But where is all this money coming from? If the Spurs make a trade where they're paying double-digit millions of dollars to four players, you're not going to have much left but minimum salaried players.

If you believe you're going to be able to count on Vaughn and Finley as key playoff contributors, then you're the one smoking, my friend.

Carter replaces Mason's productivity, and then some. We get Bruce back. So we really lose what Hill and Oberto bring to the table, which is like 8 points and never seeing the floor at the end of big post season game.

Oberto and Hill are gonna be key contributors? I'll take with Vaughn if Manu and Carter are out there with him.

[mudyez]

It's not about gambling. It's about doing what it takes to win now instead of pissing away your opportunity to win more titles for 'tomorrow'.

yeah...I really like the spurs way of not skrewin the cap and getting better from within....I'm just thinking, that right now is the time to do something to get timmy the best chance of winning, rather than start rebuilding

I dont see us beating the lakers this year with the group we have and keeping hill who will help us in that regard, means timmy has to eep he team a contender for about 3 years...with emerging contenders, I dont see that...its one, maybe two more runns and we have to maximize our chances before we need to rebuild anyway!

[Shastafarian]

So we're counting on a true recent adolescent who is still learning the 1 to actually play the 1 in the postseason. Who gives a shit what Carter makes? He's better than those two jokers combined. Stop falling in love with Spurs just because they're Spurs.

The Spurs care.

You think this is about homerism? That's funny. It's about knowing which pieces will work and which pieces won't. Carter is great. But he has never really been a good defender and he would cost too much. Arguing about this is pretty silly since it's not gonna happen. I'd rather have a young backup who can defend and a shooter who can perform in the clutch than Carter.

[MaverickRipper]

I guess we don't even need a second unit then right? Hill can play point or the 2 in some cases. He's a good smaller defender. But no. Let's trade him because he's not a starter.

5 points and 12-15 minutes is the glue that holds our second unit together.


......

[Holt's Cat]

The Spurs care.

You think this is about homerism? That's funny. It's about knowing which pieces will work and which pieces won't. Carter is great. But he has never really been a good defender and he would cost too much. Arguing about this is pretty silly since it's not gonna happen. I'd rather have a young backup who can defend and a shooter who can perform in the clutch than Carter.

Carter's hit more game winning shots than Mason ever has.

And yes, you are a homer. More than a little bit.

[Holt's Cat]

5 points and 12-15 minutes is the glue that holds our second unit together.


......

I'd be surprised to see Hill getting more than 5 minutes a night in the postseason.

[Shastafarian]

5 points and 12-15 minutes is the glue that holds our second unit together.


......

Never said that. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though :tu

[Spur|n|Austin]

5 points and 12-15 minutes is the glue that holds our second unit together.


......

:lol

[Holt's Cat]

yeah...I really like the spurs way of not skrewin the cap and getting better from within....I'm just thinking, that right now is the time to do something to get timmy the best chance of winning, rather than start rebuilding

I dont see us beating the lakers this year with the group we have and keeping hill who will help us in that regard, means timmy has to eep he team a contender for about 3 years...with emerging contenders, I dont see that...its one, maybe two more runns and we have to maximize our chances before we need to rebuild anyway!

Right. Win now, worry later. They aren't going to pull jack out of free agency in 2010. They need the firepower now. They only way they are going to get any additional top flight talent to SA is going to be through an opportunistic trade with a financially weak team.

[MarHill]

My bad. Brent's no longer a Spur so he sucks, but whatever marginal talent sporting the Silver & Black is magically 10x the player he'd be on any other team.




It's not about gambling. It's about doing what it takes to win now instead of pissing away your opportunity to win more titles for 'tomorrow'.

No it's not..especially when most of the teams are having finanical issues.

We just have one contender try to give away a key piece for financial reasons only to have that player come back to them.

We have another contender whose biggest trade piece is an expiring contract instead of his playing ability.

We have another team whom embrassed their former coach over the all-star weekend and wanted to get rid of their best player because the owner is freaking out about paying the luxury tax.

We have another team who just trade two players with big salaries to Chicago because they are in financial trouble.

Finances are a huge part of basketball and when you have a championship caliber ball-club unless you get a gift (like the Lakers did last season) you tweak it instead taking a bad risk and damage yourself financially.

It's funny how the Pittsburgh Steelers get this in football and still put a winning product of the field.

[Shastafarian]

Carter's hit more game winning shots than Mason ever has.

And yes, you are a homer. More than a little bit.

How? What is homerish about what I'm saying?

[MaNu4Tres]

Never said that. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though :tu

No but thats basically all we are losing in the trade.

[Holt's Cat]

No but thats basically all we are losing in the trade genius.

No doubt. Spurs fans are friggin' desperate if they believe George Hill is the second coming.

[Spur|n|Austin]

No but thats basically all we are losing in the trade.

Were not losing anyone in the trade because ITS NOT HAPPENING..

Sincerely,

CIA POP

[MarHill]

No doubt. Spurs fans are friggin' desperate if they believe George Hill is the second coming.

Again....you are going overboard!!

No one said he's the second coming! But he has filled a void along with Mason.

That's it!!

[Holt's Cat]

No it's not..especially when most of the teams are having finanical issues.

We just have one contender try to give away a key piece for financial reasons only to have that player come back to them.

We have another contender whose biggest trade piece is an expiring contract instead of his playing ability.

We have another team whom embrassed their former coach over the all-star weekend and wanted to get rid of their best player because the owner is freaking out about paying the luxury tax.

We have another team who just trade two players with big salaries to Chicago because they are in financial trouble.

Finances are huge part of basketball and when you have a championship caliber ball-club unless you get a gift (like the Lakers did last season) you tweak it instead taking a bad risk and damage yourself financially.

It's funny how the Pittsburgh Steelers get this in football and still put a winning product of the field.


It's also funny how you forget the one thing working against the Spurs: time.

PS...I definitely enjoyed the Spurs winning the fiscal responsibility championship last season.

[Shastafarian]

No but thats basically all we are losing in the trade.

First of all we'd be losing 4 players (which would make the trade impossible because of the Nets' roster).

Oberto - fine, not losing much of anything with him
Bruce - losing a great perimeter defender for a month
Hill - one of our better natural defenders and Tony's backup
Mason - our most clutch player this season. He's a very good shooter and a capable defender

For Carter. 4 players for 1. One who really hasn't proven he knows how to win or that he would even be good in the Spurs system. And you're calling me crazy for not wanting that trade.

[MaverickRipper]

No doubt. Spurs fans are friggin' desperate if they believe George Hill is the second coming.

Not to mention when Duncan/Manu are done in a few years, we aren't winning a title. Period.

Carter/Duncan/Manu/Parker. Sounds like the core of a team that can contend for the next 3 years.

[Holt's Cat]

Again....you are going overboard!!

No one said he's the second coming! But he has filled a void along with Mason.

That's it!!

Yay! So he's perhaps better than Jacque Vaughn, so let's not add a star level player in order to retain the better than Vaughn dude.

[SenorSpur]

Vaughn may be our back up point and bring the ball up 10 minutes a game during the regular season but in the playoffs that will simply not be the case as Pop used Manu last year at back up point in the playoffs...

So in theory MaverickRipper knows what hes talking about. All you other fans who are against getting rid of hill and mason are just blind.

Please! Damn near everyone one this board wanted JV kidnapped or shipped out when he was primary backup to TP. With Hill's development, he's been a constant DNP and the talk has subsequently died. Now you're wanting to promote him back to primary backup again. The use of Manu as backup PG was borne out of necessity. With his health in question, that idea is even more risky than ever before.

For your information, the Spurs themselves are balking at shipping out Mason and Hill. So if you want to refer to anyone as blind, start with the FO.

The Mavs made the same mistake last year, that you're wanting the Spurs to make now. They sacrificed a young, talented, player in favor of trading for an aging superstar. In doing so, they mortagaged a good portion of the little youth they had, and some draft picks. While Carter is a much better player than Kidd at this point, you get my point. The Mavs now have a top-heavy salary structure with limited cap space and an aging roster. Meanwhile, the Nets rebuilt their team overnight.

I'm not saying a trade isn't in order, but this doesn't seem to me as a smart trade. Unless the Spurs are planning on jettisoning Ginobili next year, Peter Holt IS NOT going to pay four players salaries in excess of 10 mill each.

[Shastafarian]

Yay! So he's perhaps better than Jacque Vaughn, so let's not add a star level player in order to retain the better than Vaughn dude.

You clearly don't watch the games.

[Shastafarian]

For your information, the Spurs themselves are balking at shipping out Mason and Hill. So if you want to refer to anyone as blind, start with the FO.


Obviously they're crazy!

[MaverickRipper]

First of all we'd be losing 4 players (which would make the trade impossible because of the Nets' roster).

Oberto - fine, not losing much of anything with him
Bruce - losing a great perimeter defender for a month
Hill - one of our better natural defenders and Tony's backup
Mason - our most clutch player this season. He's a very good shooter and a capable defender

For Carter. 4 players for 1. One who really hasn't proven he knows how to win or that he would even be good in the Spurs system. And you're calling me crazy for not wanting that trade.

There is no way they don't buy out Bowen if the deal happens. He comes back.

Carter replaces Mason's production and then some.

So we lose what Hill and Oberto bring to the table. You said you don't care about losing Oberto.

Hill is playing 12-15 minutes, scoring 5 points and shooting roughly 35% since Parker came back. On top of that, he's not getting near the floor at the end of a big post season game.

[Holt's Cat]

Not to mention when Duncan/Manu are done in a few years, we aren't winning a title. Period.

Carter/Duncan/Manu/Parker. Sounds like the core of a team that can contend for the next 3 years.

The Spurs passing on Carter because of a low number one pick who's perhaps a marginally acceptable backup NBA point guard and a pedestrian swingman would be excruciatingly stupid.

[MaNu4Tres]

First of all we'd be losing 4 players (which would make the trade impossible because of the Nets' roster).

Oberto - fine, not losing much of anything with him
Bruce - losing a great perimeter defender for a month
Hill - one of our better natural defenders and Tony's backup
Mason - our most clutch player this season. He's a very good shooter and a capable defender

For Carter. 4 players for 1. One who really hasn't proven he knows how to win or that he would even be good in the Spurs system. And you're calling me crazy for not wanting that trade.

Bruce and Oberto would be bought out.

[Holt's Cat]

You clearly don't watch the games.

Uh, I do. I just don't watch them while punching one out at the very sight of a certain IUPUI product.

[mudyez]

just have a feeling that in some weeks or months we will be really bothered by the fact, we didnt trade mason...he will go through bad shooting slumps and wont be worth anything while hill is the next beno

they are both on their highs in therms of value...maybe even 2 moths over it (imagine someone trading for hill, when he was top5 in the rookie ranking and mason before going through is weaker shooting days).

dont get me wrong...i likeboth of 'em, but i think they are overvalued...hill was nice with parker out, but its not like he will give us a championship as a rookie while beeing stuck behind parker...mason won us 4 games with his dagger and thats great...lets count those daggers come april/may! He is our mario elie right now...but also not the savior.

as a coach I'm all for team balance and getting players into a position, where they fell good...but with a guy like manu (beeing hurt and ready to take a role as 6th man) its not too hard to keep it with a new wing on the team...in the playoffs the rotations are short anyway an I'd rather go with a carter or jefferson linup than a mason linup (hill won't see significant minutes anyway)

[Shastafarian]

Uh, I do. I just don't watch them while punching one out at the very sight of a certain IUPUI product.

If you think Hill is slightly better than vaughn then you either don't watch the games or have no idea what you're talking about. Pick one.

[Shastafarian]

Bruce and Oberto would be bought out.

I acknowledge that Bruce would be bought out. Read my post.

[MarHill]

It's also funny how you forget the one thing working against the Spurs: time.

PS...I definitely enjoyed the Spurs winning the fiscal responsibility championship last season.


So by your logic...the Spurs have never tried to win!!

Even though they've won three in the last 6 championships and with their fiscally responsible formula which has been successful for 10 years...so they should just scrap it and damage themselves long term.

Oh yeah..that's make sense

I could see Phoenix making a desperate move like that...because they've never won anything. Even Dallas.....but they had one look at and failed.

Sometimes, I feel like the Spurs fans think we have a team that is trying to make the playoffs instead of a championship contender!!!

The FO know more than us about time and from your logic it seems like they have never tried to win. Hmmm.....don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

[Holt's Cat]

If you think Hill is slightly better than vaughn then you either don't watch the games or have no idea what you're talking about. Pick one.

I pick neither. You can take George Hill's jockstrap off of your chin.

[Shastafarian]

I pick neither. You can take George Hill's jockstrap off of your chin.

Ask anyone here if Hill is "slightly" better than Vaughn and see what kind of responses you get. I guess since you claim you watch the games, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[SequSpur]

Yay! So he's perhaps better than Jacque Vaughn, so let's not add a star level player in order to retain the better than Vaughn dude.

:lmao :lmao

[Mr. Body]

I can't believe this week has made me such a Vince Carter fan. He'd always been a dubious superstar to me, a guy who could never quite live up to his tremendous athletic gifts. But now that he's (marginally) closer to possibly being a Spur, I realize what an incredible player he is. Leading a team? No. Fitting in with what we have? Yes, probably.

I can't believe some people would balk at trading Roger Mason and George Hill for him. Mason is a pleasant surprise, but a specialist role player. George Hill is incredibly overrated on this board, a nice player who happens to play a position that isn't tremendously important for us right now.

There is absolutely no freaking way I'd balk at shipping those two guys out for Vince Carter, leaving the money part of it aside.

Here's the deal. With Ginobili out, Vince Carter makes up for his production ALL BY HIMSELF. That is, if Manu is out for the rest of the season, we are conceivably just as good as we were before. If Manu has to rest until the postseason, or he's not that hurt after all, you're ADDING a Ginobili-caliber player to the roster without losing any of our top-tier players.

The only question is Money. That's it.

[Holt's Cat]

So by your logic...the Spurs have never tried to win!!

Even though they've won three in the last 6 championships and with their fiscally responsible formula which has been successful for 10 years...so they should just scrap it and damage themselves long term.

Oh yeah..that's make sense

I could see Phoenix making a desperate move like that...because they've never won anything. Even Dallas.....but they had one look at and failed.

Sometimes, I feel like the Spurs fans think we have a team that is trying to make the playoffs instead of a championship contender!!!

The FO know more than us about time and from your logic it seems like they have never tried to win. Hmmm.....don't let facts get in the way of a good story.


You realize Peter Holt was ready to lose Tony Parker over a couple mil, no?

The Spurs are no longer kings of the mountain. Even with Manu completely healthy they aren't the frontrunners for the title.

[Holt's Cat]

Ask anyone here if Hill is "slightly" better than Vaughn and see what kind of responses you get. I guess since you claim you watch the games, you have no idea what you're talking about.

By "here" do you mean inside your head with the other ten personalities?

[MaverickRipper]

So by your logic...the Spurs have never tried to win!!

Even though they've won three in the last 6 championships and with their fiscally responsible formula which has been successful for 10 years...so they should just scrap it and damage themselves long term.

Oh yeah..that's make sense

I could see Phoenix making a desperate move like that...because they've never won anything. Even Dallas.....but they had one look at and failed.

Sometimes, I feel like the Spurs fans think we have a team that is trying to make the playoffs instead of a championship contender!!!

The FO know more than us about time and from your logic it seems like they have never tried to win. Hmmm.....don't let facts get in the way of a good story.


What the hell does Hill bring to the table that is vital to us contending?

Carter will produce more then Mason. We get Bruce back for sure and maybe Oberto (like he matters).

Basically what Hill brings to the table is the only thing that's lost and that aint much.

Stop trying to use the Mavs/Suns analogy. It doesn't work.

[Shastafarian]

By "here" do you mean inside your head with the other ten personalities?

Awww is the wittle pussy cat afwaid to ask people what they think cuz he thinks he might be wong? Awwww, fraidy wittle pussy cat.

[SenorSpur]

Here's the deal. With Ginobili out, Vince Carter makes up for his production ALL BY HIMSELF. That is, if Manu is out for the rest of the season, we are conceivably just as good as we were before. If Manu has to rest until the postseason, or he's not that hurt after all, you're ADDING a Ginobili-caliber player to the roster without losing any of our top-tier players.

The only question is Money. That's it.

With all due respect Mr. Body, that's not necessarily true. While Carter can more than hold his own offensively and will certainly make up for Manu's absence there, in no way does he provide the other elements. He doesn't play the on-the-ball defense that Manu does. Doesn't create opportunities for others. And as a newcomer, he's going to have an awfully steep learning curve - offensively and defensively. My point is, even if Carter does come here, his transition will not be as seamless as you've indicated.

[MaNu4Tres]

I can't believe some people would balk at trading Roger Mason and George Hill for him. Mason is a pleasant surprise, but a specialist role player. George Hill is incredibly overrated on this board, a nice player who happens to play a position that isn't tremendously important for us right now.

There is absolutely no freaking way I'd balk at shipping those two guys out for Vince Carter, leaving the money part of it aside.

That's it.

My thoughts exactly. Hill is at most going to see 12 minutes in big games come april and may. We have to do this deal. Hopefully Pop and R.C are just being smart about this whole trade. They realize NJ is in a financial crisis and really really want to part ways with Vince's contract. Therefore holding out til tomorrow by offering only Mason or Hill is the smart way to due business. I'm hoping if it comes down to 1 pm central time tomorrow Mason and Hill both are packing their bags for New Jersey. He'll I''ll drive down and pack their bags for them.

[Holt's Cat]

Anyone remember the last rookie backup Spurs point guard who saw action in the postseason? I think he set the NBA record for most shitting of one's drawers in a playoff game.

[MaNu4Tres]

I can't believe some people would balk at trading Roger Mason and George Hill for him. Mason is a pleasant surprise, but a specialist role player. George Hill is incredibly overrated on this board, a nice player who happens to play a position that isn't tremendously important for us right now.

There is absolutely no freaking way I'd balk at shipping those two guys out for Vince Carter, leaving the money part of it aside.

That's it.
AMEN Thank you..


My thoughts exactly. Hill is at most going to see 12 minutes in big games come april and may. We have to do this deal. Hopefully Pop and R.C are just being smart about this whole trade. They realize NJ is in a financial crisis and really really want to part ways with Vince's contract. Therefore holding out til tomorrow by offering only Mason or Hill is the smart way to due business. I'm hoping if it comes down to 1 pm central time tomorrow Mason and Hill both are packing their bags for New Jersey. He'll I''ll drive down and pack their bags for them.

[MarHill]

You realize Peter Holt was ready to lose Tony Parker over a couple mil, no?

The Spurs are no longer kings of the mountain. Even with Manu completely healthy they aren't the frontrunners for the title.


Again, I know about that with TP. But they pull the trigger on that deal...uh, no!!

I understand that the Spurs are no longer the king of the mountain. It happens teams get better.

This isn't the Boston Celtics in the 60's where they were winning every year. That doesn't happen in modern pro basketball.

But your last post seemed like the Spurs have not tried to win at all. Which is not true! The FO deserves more credit than that.

But you want your team to be a contending ballclub and they still are and they have started to have some depth and youth as well. Well...you keep that depth and youth and continue to be financially sound.

[Spur|n|Austin]

I think everyone is forgetting what we really need here, a big man..

[Shastafarian]

Anyone remember the last rookie backup Spurs point guard who saw action in the postseason? I think he set the NBA record for most shitting of one's drawers in a playoff game.

Now Hill = Beno

:lol

[Holt's Cat]

Awww is the wittle pussy cat afwaid to ask people what they think cuz he thinks he might be wong? Awwww, fraidy wittle pussy cat.

Nah, I don't feel like it. It's odd that for such an 'obvious' point, you don't really seem to have many piping up to support your assertion in a forum which is quite good at that.

Go ahead, ask the people.

[MarHill]

I think everyone is forgetting what we really need here, a Big man..


Now, I agree with that!!

:toast

[Shastafarian]

we have to do this deal.

there is no deal

[Holt's Cat]

Now Hill = Beno

:lol


Beno was hot shit until he met the postseason. And he'd done more in his sleep (which was usually most of the regular season) than Hill ever has.

[SScarrJ]

With all due respect Mr. Body, that's not necessarily true. While Carter can more than hold his own offensively and will certainly make up for Manu's absence there, in no way does he provide the other elements. He doesn't play the on-the-ball defense that Manu does. Doesn't create opportunities for others. And as a newcomer, he's going to have an awfully steep learning curve - offensively and defensively. My point is, even if Carter does come here, his transition will not be as seamless as you've indicated.

Even if his transition isnt seamless and the spurs lose in the WCF to the Lakers, it sets San Antonio up for a great 3 year last hurrah with Duncan. You can easily find low cost vets who will line up to join the Spurs. Rather than waiting for 2010 and overpaying in a crowded market.

[Spursfan092120]

I think everyone is forgetting what we really need here, a Big man..

Thank you...maybe that will throw some ice water on their heads.

[MarHill]

What the hell does Hill bring to the table that is vital to us contending?

Carter will produce more then Mason. We get Bruce back for sure and maybe Oberto (like he matters).

Basically what Hill brings to the table is the only thing that's lost and that aint much.

Stop trying to use the Mavs/Suns analogy. It doesn't work.

The Mavs/Suns analogy works quite well.

Those teams who have never won a title.....made bold trades in order to have a chance. It didn't work!!

[Holt's Cat]

Even if his transition isnt seamless and the spurs lose in the WCF to the Lakers, it sets San Antonio up for a great 3 year last hurrah with Duncan. You can easily find low cost vets who will line up to join the Spurs. Rather than waiting for 2010 and overpaying in a crowded market.

Positioning for a star level free agent run makes no sense for the Spurs. You use the cap flexibility to deal for that talent.

[SenorSpur]

Even if his transition isnt seamless and the spurs lose in the WCF to the Lakers, it sets San Antonio up for a great 3 year last hurrah with Duncan. You can easily find low cost vets who will line up to join the Spurs. Rather than waiting for 2010 and overpaying in a crowded market.

Speaking of the 2010 plan, I would assume that with the FO out shopping for high-priced FA talent, the vaunted 2010 plan is "out the window".

[Mr. Body]

Even if his transition isnt seamless and the spurs lose in the WCF to the Lakers, it sets San Antonio up for a great 3 year last hurrah with Duncan. You can easily find low cost vets who will line up to join the Spurs. Rather than waiting for 2010 and overpaying in a crowded market.

That's the benefit many are missing right now. Carter may have trouble integrating this year - maybe - but the next two years we still have him, his talent and offensive prowess. He'll prolong Ginobili and Duncan's careers for those reasons alone, and could make the SAS prohibitive favorites going into next year without any changes.

[Mr. Body]

Speaking of the 2010 plan, I would assume that with the FO out shopping for high-priced FA talent, the vaunted 2010 plan is "out the window".

You're not signing a player better than Carter in 2010.

'Sides, every team is clearing money for that year. I'd take Carter now over a vague shot at Chris Bosh.

[SScarrJ]

The Mavs/Suns analogy works quite well.

Those teams who have never won a title.....made bold trades in order to have a chance. It didn't work!!

Suns and Mavs traded for guys that were not meant for their system. Vince Carter has great range and is one of the better catch and shoot guys, not to mention he has the ability to put it on the floor and attack the basket..... Sounds like he would fit in great here . Oh i forgot though, he doesn't play lockdown defense like Mike Finley.

[MaverickRipper]

The Mavs/Suns analogy works quite well.

Those teams who have never won a title.....made bold trades in order to have a chance. It didn't work!!

No, it doesn't.

And it's not a bold trade, outside the salaries.

We lose a back up point who puts up 5 points on under 40% shooting.

Mason's production is replaced by Carter and then some.

We get Bowen back. May get Oberto back, but hes a bum now anyway.



The analogy doesn't work, at all.

[K-State Spur]

I'm glad we're going to be pissing away the rest of Duncan's prime waiting for tomorrow. How about Manu isn't out for the rest of the season? Stack the rotation and win now.

I'm all for stacking the rotation. If spare parts and Horry can net a productive player - go for it.

What I'm not in favor of is turning the team in the Big 4, but having to surround them with the D-League All-Stars.

[MaNu4Tres]

The Mavs/Suns analogy works quite well.

Those teams who have never won a title.....made bold trades in order to have a chance. It didn't work!!

Or they just never had a good enough team to begin with( suns) or never had a leader who knows how to win ( mavs).

[MarHill]

Suns and Mavs traded for guys that were not meant for their system. Vince Carter has great range and is one of the better catch and shoot guys, not to mention he has the ability to put it on the floor and attack the basket..... Sounds like he would fit in great here . Oh i forgot though, he doesn't play lockdown defense like Mike Finley.

But still they made trades they thought would work for their system and they were bold in doing that.

However, the result was the same for the both of them and it has affected them financially.

[Shastafarian]

The Spurs would definitely be over the lux tax threshold next year if they were to trade for Carter. Just one more reason it's not gonna happen.

[SenorSpur]

You're not signing a player better than Carter in 2010.

'Sides, every team is clearing money for that year. I'd take Carter now over a vague shot at Chris Bosh.

I agree in that there is gonna be a lot of team out there that will be "all dressed up and nowhere to go" in 2010.

[Universe]

In NBA 2K9, Mason bolts in two years anyways.


:)

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs would definitely be over the lux tax threshold next year if they were to trade for Carter. Just one more reason it's not gonna happen.

Plus the salary cap will be going down.... yet another reason.

Try squeezing more potential lux tax dollars out of Holt's ass.

[Holt's Cat]

How much faith is there to have in Ginobili's ankle? That cost the Spurs the title last year. If he's really having problems now is he really going to be ready come May and June? He finally broke 30 minutes a night last season and he broke down by the playoffs. With Bruce winding down his career the Spurs are going to have to change their approach. That means more scoring. The Spurs could really use a proven scoring threat like Carter on the wing.

[MaverickRipper]

I'm all for stacking the rotation. If spare parts and Horry can net a productive player - go for it.

What I'm not in favor of is turning the team in the Big 4, but having to surround them with the D-League All-Stars.

Bonner
Thomas
Finely
Bowen

How is that supporting 4 D-league allstars?

Better yet, how is losing the Hill the difference between have nothing but D-league all-stars?

[MarHill]

No, it doesn't.

And it's not a bold trade, outside the salaries.

We lose a back up point who puts up 5 points on under 40% shooting.

Mason's production is replaced by Carter and then some.

We get Bowen back. May get Oberto back, but hes a bum now anyway.



The analogy doesn't work, at all.

Yes it does!!

I guess you don't get it. Both teams made trades they thought would put them over the top for a championship and it didn't work!

Now both teams...more Phoenix than Dallas are hurt financially by it and neither are going to win a title this year.

So the analogy fits!!!

[K-State Spur]

With all due respect Mr. Body, that's not necessarily true. While Carter can more than hold his own offensively and will certainly make up for Manu's absence there, in no way does he provide the other elements. He doesn't play the on-the-ball defense that Manu does. Doesn't create opportunities for others. And as a newcomer, he's going to have an awfully steep learning curve - offensively and defensively. My point is, even if Carter does come here, his transition will not be as seamless as you've indicated.

Carter has also - historically - needed more shots to equal Manu's production.

I'm not saying that he's not as productive as Manu - but he has rarely been as efficient.

[SScarrJ]

But still they made trades they thought would work for their system and they were bold in doing that.

However, the result was the same for the both of them and it has affected them financially.

So we shouldn't make a good trade because other teams made bad trades?

Everything has affected the Suns financially, Sarver is a cheap prick.

Dallas isn't hurting in the least bit except the fact they aren't a very good team overall.

[Holt's Cat]

What's Manu's production when he has to sit because of a bum ankle? The Spurs will need someone to shoulder the scoring load night in and night out moving forward. Manu's role is only going to get smaller with the Spurs moving forward. TD + TP is not enough to carry this team to another title.

[MarHill]

Plus the salary cap will be going down.... yet another reason.

Try squeezing more potential lux tax dollars out of Holt's ass.

Like I said it's easy to spend other's people money and think there is no rammifications for it!

No wonder our country is going a tough an economic situation right now!!!

Spend, spend, spend.....it doesn't matter the government will give me more anyway!!!! :lol

[MaverickRipper]

Yes it does!!

I guess you don't get it. Both teams made trades they thought would put them over the top for a championship and it didn't work!

Now both teams...more Phoenix than Dallas are hurt financially by it and neither are going to win a title this year.

So the analogy fits!!!

No, it doesn't.

You understand when Duncan/Manu are gone in a few years, so are all our title hopes, right?

We aren't trading away anything massive. We lose a great role player and back up point.

[MaNu4Tres]

Carter has also - historically - needed more shots to equal Manu's production.

I'm not saying that he's not as productive as Manu - but he has rarely been as efficient.

Have you ever wondered why players fg percentages tend to rise when they play with Duncan Parker and Manu?


Have you thought about how Carter has basically had create his own shots and carry the offensive load by himself for just about his whole career?

He's never had an inside presence to play off of to begin with. I guarantee you if Manu was on the nets his efficiency would take a dive.

[MarHill]

No, it doesn't.

You understand when Duncan/Manu are gone in a few years, so are all our title hopes, right?

We aren't trading away anything massive. We lose a great role player and back up point.

Yes when Duncan and Manu are gone.

Great players will come and go....I get that!!

The FO still wants to be in a good financial position when that day comes!!

[MaverickRipper]

Yes when Duncan and Manu are gone.

Great players will come and go....I get that!!

The FO still wants to be in a good financial position when that day comes!!

Carter's contract will be gone when Manu and Tim are.

......

[MaNu4Tres]

carter's contract will be gone when manu and tim are.

......

+1

[Spur|n|Austin]

Yes when Duncan and Manu are gone.

Great players will come and go....I get that!!

The FO still wants to be in a good financial position when that day comes!!

Agreed, and that's why this isn't happening, the Spurs FO is the smartest in the league, therefore too smart to put themselves in a hole like that.

[DrHouse]

The Spurs aren't going to make any big moves because they just don't do that.

They will bank on Manu's ankle recovering in time for the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. I'm baffled that Spur fans actually think their FO would trade Ginobili.

[MaverickRipper]

The Spurs aren't going to make any big moves because they just don't do that.

They will bank on Manu's ankle recovering in time for the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. I'm baffled that Spur fans actually think their FO would trade Ginobili.

Who said anything about trading Manu?

[MaNu4Tres]

They will bank on Manu's ankle recovering in time for the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. I'm baffled that Spur fans actually think their FO would trade Ginobili.

Hardly anyone has mentioned Manu in trade scenarios.

[Spur|n|Austin]

The Spurs aren't going to make any big moves because they just don't do that.

They will bank on Manu's ankle recovering in time for the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. I'm baffled that Spur fans actually think their FO would trade Ginobili.

Trade Manu?? Where'd you read that?

[MaNu4Tres]

Agreed, and that's why this isn't happening, the Spurs FO is the smartest in the league, therefore too smart to put themselves in a hole like that.

Carter's contract is only for 2 more years. yeah big hole.

[Spursfan092120]

The Spurs aren't going to make any big moves because they just don't do that.

They will bank on Manu's ankle recovering in time for the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. I'm baffled that Spur fans actually think their FO would trade Ginobili.

Not all Spurs fans think that.

[mexicanjunior]

Like I said it's easy to spend other's people money and think there is no rammifications for it!

No wonder our country is going a tough an economic situation right now!!!

Spend, spend, spend.....it doesn't matter the government will give me more anyway!!!! :lol

I guess I should take that approach when deciding to spend money going to games or not. If the FO isn't willing to spend money to give our team the best chance to win...why should I spend my money on seeing a team spin their wheels?

[Cane]

Hate Mark Cuban all you want, he's the kind of owner any fan would love to have from a financial support standpoint.

[EricB]

Hate Mark Cuban all you want, he's the kind of owner any fan would love to have from a financial support standpoint.


The guy who cut Michael Finley and pays him to play for the Spurs?

The guy who stuck his nose in the basketball side of the team and forced a trade for a broken down Jason Kidd trading away an all star point guard!?!!??!

Yeah, I'd love to have that owner :rolleyes

[Spur|n|Austin]

Hate Mark Cuban all you want, he's the kind of owner any fan would love to have from a financial support standpoint.

Please tell me your being facetious.

[Shank]

fascisious.

[Spur|n|Austin]

you spelled it wrong.

[K-State Spur]

Hate Mark Cuban all you want, he's the kind of owner any fan would love to have from a financial support standpoint.

Yes & no.

He spends on his team, there's no doubting that.

But he's also in a major market - and that shouldn't be overlooked.

[Spursfan092120]

Chad Ford:
The Nets and Blazers were negotiating late into the night over Vince Carter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=136). One of the hang-ups now is Portland's insistence that the Nets include the 2011 first-round pick the Nets acquired from the Golden State Warriors (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=gsw) in any deal for Carter. It's pretty tough at the moment to get a handle on what the Blazers are doing. They talked to Bucks, Bobcats and the Nets on Wednesday. And one source insists there's still a possibility that the Blazers don't do anything.

[braeden0613]

The Spurs aren't going to make any big moves because they just don't do that.

They will bank on Manu's ankle recovering in time for the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. I'm baffled that Spur fans actually think their FO would trade Ginobili.
Exactly. People get way too carried away sometimes. I imagine the FO gets a lot of laughs from some of the theories they hear.

[crc21209]

Blazers up ante for Carter

As the market dries up on Vince Carter’s expensive contract, the Portland Trail Blazers have raised the price on the New Jersey Nets to complete a trade. Portland now wants a first-round draft pick, a league executive familiar with the talks said Wednesday night.

The Blazers and Nets have discussed several scenarios centering on Carter, including one that would send the eight-time All-Star guard, Maurice Ager and Chris Douglas-Roberts to the Blazers for Raef LaFrentz, Travis Outlaw and Sergio Rodriguez. So far, the source said, the Nets are balking, but the Blazers are counting on the fact that the several Carter suitors – including San Antonio, Dallas and Houston – just don’t have the comparable assets to make a deal.

“I know they are desperate to trade Vince and teams know that,” the source said. “And now teams are looking to rob them.”

Teams are dubious of the Blazers’ claims that LaFrentz’s expiring contract has drawn league-wide interest. Portland is considering using LaFrentz’s expiring contract on multiple deals, including Milwaukee’s Richard Jefferson.

Jefferson on the move?

The Cleveland Cavaliers have talked to the Bucks about acquiring Jefferson, two league executives said Wednesday afternoon.

Cleveland is dangling the expiring contract of Wally Szczerbiak for Jefferson, who has two years and $29.2 million left on his contract. The Cavaliers have been active in seeking talent to surround LeBron James for a title run.

The Bucks have been engaged in talks with the Trail Blazers about a package that would include Jefferson for Travis Outlaw and LaFrentz’s expiring contract.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AiUaOR6RwjOrmanwXoPjbN.8vLYF?slug=aw-tradebuzz021709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Maybe the Spurs can get VC for spare parts now hopefully, ya never know.

[crc21209]

So its either we land Sheed, VC, Jefferson, Wilcox, Smith, or no one! Damn it I better wakeup to a decent deal! No Mason, no Hill involved.

[crc21209]

With trade deadline looming, New Jersey Nets believed to be trying to 'give Carter away'

by Dave D'Alessandro/The Star-Ledger Thursday February 19, 2009, 12:53 AM

DALLAS -- As the trade deadline enters its final hours Thursday, there are numerous factors working against the Nets' bid to shed Vince Carter's salary -- which has become their primary objective, because they can't actually find a deal that will improve their roster.

The greatest factor is perception: Every GM in the league ended their business day Wednesday believing that Rod Thorn has no other choice but to go into dump mode, and that he'll be willing to take back virtually nothing but expiring contracts in exchange for Carter.

An ESPN report even quoted two of these executives, each of whom stated that the Nets are trying to "give Carter away."

Remarkably, Thorn didn't exactly deny it when asked to comment on that perception, but he gave it his own spin.

"I've always said you do trades for two reasons," the Nets president said Wednesday night before the Nets faced the Mavericks. "You do them for the present, or you do them for what's best moving forward. Those are the only two reasons, as far as I'm concerned."

In other words, you can dump salary, for the sake of putting the franchise on more solid financial footing and in a better situation to compete in the 2010 free-agent market.

"You could look at trades in a different light," Thorn said. "But with anything we're trying to do, we're looking at what's in the best long-term interests of our team."

At the same time, Thorn does not want to give his peers the impression that there is a fire sale going on, so that he can get a better return for a 32-year-old who has $33 million in guaranteed salary the next two seasons.

As of Wednesday night, he was failing in that bid.

Thorn will only admit to this much: He has nothing that he would consider promising, and still doesn't expect any deals to emerge before 3 p.m. Thursday.

"We have nothing at all happening -- just a lot of conversation," Thorn said. "I can't describe it in any way -- it's just normal talk for this time of year. A lot of chatter, and that's all it is."

But much of that chatter pertains to his team.

Thorn's peers claim that all the reported trade permutations of the last week are as archaic as the steam engine. The reason: Forced by their owners to slash payroll or face Draconian measures, GMs have taken another look at their long-range financial projections and have found religion.

And those projections have no place for Carter, who will make $16.1 million next season and $17.5 million in 2010-11.

The Nets themselves can no longer afford him, as long as the team is stuck in the lottery. Their arena doesn't generate enough revenue, Brooklyn is years away, the improvement is coming too slowly to satisfy the small fan base, and their own financial losses figure to be in the same $30-35 million range this season.

So even as Thorn asks teams to take Carter's salary, they are getting cheeky: In some cases, they're asking for draft picks to sweeten the package.

Even the most recent development didn't pan out, because everyone is looking to shed big salaries as soon as possible: Whereas the Nets thought they could send Carter to Portland for Raef LaFrentz and spare parts, they are only one of a dozen teams in play for that expiring contract.

The discussions they've had over the last few weeks are almost moot.
According to general managers who request anonymity because they don't want to speak ill of Carter, the Nets cannot get a valuable piece from anywhere.

To wit: Dallas, under no circumstances, will give the Nets Josh Howard. Houston, under no circumstances, will give the Nets Shane Battier.

The only thing Thorn has left, these GMs believe, is the nuclear option -- dumping Carter's salary for pennies on the dollar -- and hoping the fans understand that it's all about clearing cap space for 2010, when the Nets hope business will pick up.

Thorn, however, is a competitive man who isn't ready to do that. He could get Tracy McGrady, but that would constitute a salary dump. He could get Jerry Stackhouse and Erick Dampier, but that too would constitute a salary dump.

Unless owner Bruce Ratner directs him to do otherwise -- which some team officials fear could happen -- Thorn will resist that option until 3 p.m. Thursday.

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2009/02/with_trade_deadline_looming_ne.html

[baseline bum]

Spurs gotta jump on Carter if Manu's out. I don't like the guy, but it's a wasted season if Manu can't go and the Spurs can't find some way to replace his scoring.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Sounds like Thorn is really leaning towards a salary dump tomorrow, if anything at all..

If the Spurs get outta all this with a steal from them I'll be one happy cucumber.

[crc21209]

In what has to be one of the stranger stories of the season, the deal that sent Tyson Chandler from the Hornets to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Joe Smith and Chris Wilcox is null and void this morning, after Chandler failed his physical on Wednesday. The teams heard about the news after their games Wednesday night, and Chris Paul, when speaking to reporters about it, said that the team” rejoiced” when they found out Chandler was heading back to New Orleans. So where does this leave the Thunder? Now that their deal for Chandler fell through, there is still thoughts that they may look for a last minute move for either Joe Smith or Chris Wilcox.


If you read today’s Newark Star-Ledger, then you will believe the Nets are going to trade Vince Carter today, and Nets fans may not be happy with what they get in return. Nets GM Rod Thorn is said to be in “dump mode”, and may be willing to take nothing but expiring contracts in return for giving up Vince. Carter, who is due 2 years and $33 million left on his current deal, is said to be almost expecting to get a phone call at any minute.

www.layupdrill.com