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RandomGuy
02-19-2009, 03:31 PM
The Obama Administration's $75 billion homeowner-rescue plan offers a lot of help to people in imminent danger of losing their homes. It does far less for those who are deep underwater on their mortgages but have the wherewithal to keep making their monthly payments. And that could be a problem -- not only for those homeowners themselves, but for the banking system and the economy in general.

Here's the dilemma: Many homeowners owe more on their mortgages than their homes are worth, and -- rightly or wrongly -- increasing numbers of them may decide to give up and mail in the keys. The taboo against reneging on debts already shows signs of fading in hard-hit markets like Phoenix and Las Vegas. More abandonments would increase losses for lenders while damaging the vitality of neighborhoods.

There's not much in the Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan announced on Feb. 18 to deal with this looming problem. Provisions to reduce monthly loan payments for homeowners who are struggling don't prevent these so-called "voluntary foreclosures," since in many cases the payments already are affordable. The most effective way to keep underwater homeowners from walking away en masse would be a big writedown of the principal they owe. That would give them positive equity in their homes -- or at least the hope for it once prices begin creeping upward again -- and with it, a reason to stay put. Although the Obama plan permits principal writedowns -- and even pays off up to $5,000 of principal for homeowners who remain current on their payments -- they aren't required, or even central to the proposal.

Temptation to Walk Away

Writing down mortgage debt on houses that are underwater could total $1 trillion or more. The value of underwater homes could be as much as $700 billion below the mortgage values, according to financial analysts and informal government estimates. Keep in mind, though, that this is not an actual expense because no dollars would change hands: The debt holders would simply be bringing their valuations in line with the reality that many of the loans are destined to be defaulted on. And banks would recoup even less if the homes are allowed to go into foreclosure unnecessarily than they would have in a writedown, because the owners will stop paying entirely. What's more, vacant houses are subject to vandalism that further erodes their value, and foreclosures drag down the value of neighboring properties.

For some of the roughly 10 million underwater homeowners, especially those with spotty credit records, the temptation is great to walk away. "It's just common sense," says Yale University economist John Geanakoplos. He takes pains to say he's not defending the behavior, but adds, "If your house is worth much less than the loan, you're pretty sure you'll never really own it. You'll just go rent somewhere. The only bad thing is the mark on your credit rating, which for these people wasn't too good in the first place."

Even for those who want to keep their homes at the moment, reducing monthly payments without addressing negative equity may just postpone the inevitable. "The reality is, people lose jobs, especially in a recession. People get transferred, people have to move at some point," says Sean O'Toole, founder and CEO of ForeclosureRadar.com, which tracks California foreclosures. "By lowering payments and not principal balance, you're guaranteeing the extension of this crisis for years to come."

Why Default Rates Skyrocket

How big is the risk that many more Americans will give up and walk away from their homes, figuring that paying the mortgage every month is throwing good money after bad? A widely cited study by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston found, seemingly reassuringly, that only about 6% of people who were underwater on their mortgages in the 1991 regional housing slump eventually faced foreclosure.

But Yale's Geanakoplos says the danger is much greater this time. Housing prices have fallen more, and many more of the loans were made to people with bad credit. His research using more recent data finds that default rates skyrocket when subprime or option adjustable-rate mortgage borrowers owe more than their houses are worth. The default rate is about nine times as high for people who are way underwater as for people with substantial equity in their homes, all else equal, Geanakoplos found.

Lowering the amount that people owe on their homes would obviously help the homeowners. What's surprising is that it might even benefit the people who bought their loans, bundled into mortgage-backed securities. How could that be? Because the values of those securities have already plunged -- in some cases to as little as 25% per dollar of face value -- in the expectation of massive foreclosures. If big writedowns managed to keep more people in their homes, it could actually enhance the value of those mortgage-backed securities.

Lawsuits Are an Obstacle

There is one potential obstacle to big principal adjustments that the Obama plan doesn't address: litigation over writedowns by investors who bought stakes in the vast number of mortgages that have been securitized. A minority of the "pooling and servicing" agreements governing securitized loans explicitly restrict modifications. Even in cases where modifications aren't banned, servicers say they worry about getting sued anyway for abrogating unwritten responsibilities to investors.

Indeed, on Dec. 1, William Frey, a private investor in mortgage-backed securities, filed a lawsuit in New York State Supreme Court alleging that the proposed modification of some 400,000 home loans originally underwritten by the defunct lender Countrywide Financial is illegal.

Many in the industry expected the Administration's proposal to include a "safe harbor" protecting servicers against lawsuits where loan modifications benefit investors as a whole more than foreclosure would. But while Congress is contemplating such protections, the Obama plan doesn't -- and one Democratic Senate aide says Administration officials have been distinctly cool to the idea.

A Missed Opportunity

Is there an argument against massive writedowns of principal for underwater homeowners? Sure: It rewards the person who put no money down, and it does nothing for the next-door neighbor who put 20% or 30% down and still has equity. "I don't think you're going to find any sympathy for that," says Guy Cecala, publisher of Inside Mortgage Finance, an industry newsletter. Trouble is, trying to treat those two neighbors equally could have unintended harmful consequences for the neighborhood if the family that's underwater simply walks away.

Ultimately, strong resistance to principal writedowns in the industry -- whether from legal concerns, because banks can't absorb the paper losses, or because it sets a worrisome precedent for other borrowers -- means implementing such a program would involve "a major time delay," a senior Administration official says. "If you're going to try to prevent the foreclosures now, you can't go that way."

The Obama Administration missed another opportunity to help underwater homeowners when it limited the assistance it is offering homeowners who are current on their mortgage payments. In a step in the right direction, the Obama plan allows Fannie Mae (NYSE:FNM - News) and Freddie Mac (NYSE:FRE - News) to finance new, more affordable mortgages even if homeowners owe more than the current standard of 75% to 80% of their home's current value. But for unexplained reasons, there's a cap on eligibility. Fannie and Freddie still won't be allowed to help with refinancings if the loan-to-value ratio exceeds 105% (e.g., the loan is $210,000 and the house is worth $200,000).

Putting a cap on eligibility for refis cuts out many of the people who most need a break and doesn't appear to make any sense from the government's viewpoint either, says Christopher Mayer, a Columbia University economist who has helped devise homeowner-rescue plans. Throwing open eligibility for cheaper loans to anyone who currently has a loan owned or guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie would lower default rates and thus the ultimate cost to the agencies and taxpayers, says Mayer. He adds, "I don't understand why they did this."

Coasts Hit the Worst

Moreover, "private-label" mortgages that lack Fannie or Freddie's backing -- particularly in California and the Northeast, where home prices are higher and subprime mortgages more common -- aren't eligible for Fannie and Freddie refis at all. "Where the markets have been hardest hit on the coasts, where private mortgages are the biggest, this program won't really help," says a fixed-income portfolio manager for a major mutual-fund management firm.

The senior Administration official said the 105% cap seemed advisable in part because re-default rates tend to rise with high loan-to-value ratios. And the government excluded private-label loans from the refinancing program because it little or no authority to dictate rate changes where government-affiliated entities don't provide guarantees.

Obama's plan is broader and stronger than Hope for Homeowners, the unwieldy, mostly voluntary program passed by Congress last summer. On the other hand, that's not saying a lot. Hope for Homeowners has refinanced a microscopic 25 mortgage loans so far. Even a thousandfold improvement over that would still constitute failure for the Obama Administration. That's why this plan may require some changes in the months ahead.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090219/bs_bw/feb2009db20090218423745

By Peter Coy and Theo Francis Peter Coy And Theo Francis – Thu Feb 19, 8:08 am ET

Winehole23
02-19-2009, 03:37 PM
We're in moral hazard territory yet again. Those who were least prudent need to be helped to prevent them from dragging the rest of us down. But there may not be a way around it.

As for the investors, fuck them. They didn't do their due diligence on the risk either.

101A
02-19-2009, 04:16 PM
We're in moral hazard territory yet again. Those who were least prudent need to be helped to prevent them from dragging the rest of us down. But there may not be a way around it.



I'm thinking indentured servitude is way underrated.

However, I'd like to see a map showing where these underwater loans are - because they are not universal around this country.

Winehole23
02-19-2009, 04:28 PM
I'm thinking indentured servitude is way underrated.Just wait. It might not be that far off.

TDMVPDPOY
02-19-2009, 05:48 PM
the govt could either....

buy back the value of the land, and allow the home owner to pay off the interest owing on their mortgage, once that is clear they can pay back the govt for the land....<<this decrease the commitment of interest paid over the loan.

Extra Stout
02-19-2009, 07:51 PM
The continuing existence of every large bank in America and Europe is predicated upon not admitting the true value of their distressed loans. So, no writedowns.

implacable44
02-20-2009, 11:22 AM
allowing a judge to determine loan repayment terms is catastrophic

Winehole23
02-20-2009, 11:41 AM
allowing a judge to determine loan repayment terms is catastrophicNot doing so might also be disastrous.

TDMVPDPOY
02-20-2009, 12:57 PM
Not doing so might also be disastrous.

too much powers here

look at the banks they dont even follow the recommendations of the FED Reserve or the regulators when it comes to +/- interest rates......finally we need someone to step in....

spurster
02-20-2009, 01:20 PM
If you are deep underwater and willing to walk away, the smart thing to do would be to ask for and document multiple requests for adjustments to your loan (threatening to walk away in a nice way). If they are ignored, then when you walk away, you probably have a better chance of getting another house loan down the line.

ChumpDumper
02-20-2009, 03:32 PM
allowing a judge to determine loan repayment terms is catastrophicTell everyone how it is catastrophic.

smeagol
02-20-2009, 04:07 PM
Leaving beyond ones means. That is what started all this.

doobs
02-20-2009, 04:12 PM
allowing a judge to determine loan repayment terms is catastrophic

I don't like the word catastrophic. But, yes, that provision could potentially make credit even tighter. Lenders will have to deal with more uncertainty, I guess. Future homeowners will pay for this.

Not only do I get to subsidize the baby boomers' retirements, I also get to pay for their fuck-ups!

ChumpDumper
02-20-2009, 04:28 PM
I don't like the word catastrophic. But, yes, that provision could potentially make credit even tighter. Lenders will have to deal with more uncertainty, I guess. Future homeowners will pay for this.Maybe they should voluntarily rework loans like they said they would.


Not only do I get to subsidize the baby boomers' retirements, I also get to pay for their fuck-ups!That can has already been kicked down the road. It's your great-grandkids who should be pissed.

doobs
02-20-2009, 04:52 PM
Maybe they should voluntarily rework loans like they said they would.

Who are "they"? The lenders? All lenders? I mean, generally speaking, in many circumstances it would make sense for a lender to rework a loan. A lender has no need for the collateral, they just want money. That's why they're in business. So a costly and burdensome pursuit of legal remedies is already something they don't want to do. But it's their choice, frankly. If they determine that they need to force foreclosure or pursue other state remedies, that's their choice. Just like it's their choice if they want to renegotiate with the borrower. That's how debt works.

The problem with sub-prime loans is that the borrowers, too often, cannot afford to make future payments, even on a modified loan. So why delay the inevitable? Lenders do not want to foreclose. They only pursue the annoying process of foreclosure because the alternative is bad.

Bankruptcy judges already have too much power in adjusting debt, in my opinion. Giving them even more power to adjust primary mortgages will only further freeze credit and make it more difficult for younger people like me to secure financing.


That can has already been kicked down the road. It's your great-grandkids who should be pissed.

Well, I'm not a homeowner and I'm free of debt. I'm approaching a certain age and financial status, however; I'll likely get fucked on a mortgage. So, yes, I have to pay for the baby boomers' retirements, and their fuck-ups.

And if we don't fix this shit, so will my great-grandkids.

MannyIsGod
02-20-2009, 07:01 PM
Leaving beyond ones means. That is what started all this.

Banks giving out stupid loans and investors packaging said stupid loans into well, EVERYTHING, has just as much to do with this as that. People were retarded, no doubt. But in the end those people were enabled by greedy short sighted fuckers.

MannyIsGod
02-20-2009, 07:02 PM
Who are "they"? The lenders? All lenders? I mean, generally speaking, in many circumstances it would make sense for a lender to rework a loan. A lender has no need for the collateral, they just want money. That's why they're in business. So a costly and burdensome pursuit of legal remedies is already something they don't want to do. But it's their choice, frankly. If they determine that they need to force foreclosure or pursue other state remedies, that's their choice. Just like it's their choice if they want to renegotiate with the borrower. That's how debt works.

The problem with sub-prime loans is that the borrowers, too often, cannot afford to make future payments, even on a modified loan. So why delay the inevitable? Lenders do not want to foreclose. They only pursue the annoying process of foreclosure because the alternative is bad.

Bankruptcy judges already have too much power in adjusting debt, in my opinion. Giving them even more power to adjust primary mortgages will only further freeze credit and make it more difficult for younger people like me to secure financing.



Have you been paying attention at all?

Gino
02-20-2009, 10:14 PM
Tell everyone how it is catastrophic.

Because it throws away the very idea of what a contract is.

Why would I loan to people if I know if they default a judge can just lower their payments and screw me over?

ChumpDumper
02-20-2009, 11:14 PM
Because it throws away the very idea of what a contract is.Contracts are reworked all the time.


Why would I loan to people if I know if they default a judge can just lower their payments and screw me over?Why would you prefer having no money repaid at all?

LockBeard
02-20-2009, 11:20 PM
Why not cut all income tax by half instead of having the government take it and redistribute it as they see fit?

oh oh oh I know.

Winehole23
02-20-2009, 11:27 PM
Because it throws away the very idea of what a contract is.

Why would I loan to people if I know if they default a judge can just lower their payments and screw me over?Moral hazard territory. We're living there now and will live in it in the future. The future and the past are both poorly lit and lack refrigeration.

Legal hazard becomes part of the pricing and risk assessment for the next attempt. You can plan in advance for it.

For now, it's take a haircut or maybe get nothing. The choice isn't a hard one to make for some lenders. Grab the money that's offered right now, or risk default and foreclosure. If the deal doesn't make sense, they won't sign in up great numbers. We can only hope this will be the case. It will cost a lot less.

For some reason, I don't think many people will be turning down the short end money.

Winehole23
02-20-2009, 11:34 PM
A lot of bad paper is going to be torn up. Tough luck for sanctity of contract. Live and learn.

spurster
02-21-2009, 12:29 PM
How sacred do you want contracts to be? Should we open debtors' prisons again? Bankruptcies and "fresh starts" were created for a reason.

Nbadan
02-21-2009, 01:23 PM
Why not cut all income tax by half instead of having the government take it and redistribute it as they see fit?

oh oh oh I know.

..cause tax cuts have been proven to be less effective at beating deflation than just increasing spending?

MannyIsGod
02-21-2009, 05:36 PM
I keep hearing about contracts voided and blah blah blah - you should all go read the plan. Its almost getting to the point to where its funny how many people are commenting out of ignorance.

RandomGuy
02-22-2009, 05:35 PM
The continuing existence of every large bank in America and Europe is predicated upon not admitting the true value of their distressed loans. So, no writedowns.

Simple, succinct, pretty much correct.

RandomGuy
02-22-2009, 05:38 PM
allowing a judge to determine loan repayment terms is catastrophic

Because as we all know, it is in everybody's best interest to continue the wave of foreclosures, causing more underwater mortgages, causing more people to stop paying, causing more foreclosures.

If you don't really understand what the underlying systemic problem is, why do you bother suggesting or critiquing solutions?

RandomGuy
02-22-2009, 05:39 PM
If you are deep underwater and willing to walk away, the smart thing to do would be to ask for and document multiple requests for adjustments to your loan (threatening to walk away in a nice way). If they are ignored, then when you walk away, you probably have a better chance of getting another house loan down the line.

Yup.

Ultimately, the lender is the one taking the ultimate risk, and if they are willing to accept a much greater loss when you walk out, then they are not doing their job.

TDMVPDPOY
02-22-2009, 07:41 PM
lol every day i keep on reading news about the housing market.....seriously some ppl who write these articles better get their facts straight with real numbers whats happening in the economy. Alot of first home buyers are jumping on the bandwagon buying a house cause of the low interest rates, then again a year ago with the market booming alot of buyers were jumping into the market cause they thought house prices were going to continue to go up and interest rates were unlikely going to go down << even the finance minister at the time told them to lock in rates LMAO @ 7-8%, those buyers a year ago today are playing the blame game cause they locked in their rates while its hovering around 4-5% now.

I dunno what the uncertainty of the future holds in the economy, but they shouldnt have articles everyday boasting about the housing market and numbers of people jumping on bandwagon...i dont like how they use this to influence people to start spending or buying a house, when it looks like they dont have the capacity to do so when things either get tough down the line if the economy keeps on tankn and people losing jobs etc. At the same time why dont they write articles of how many ppl are struggling to pay debts or ppl with foreclosures....