Manu's Future with the Spurs

[PeterBurns]

We touched on this topic this morning on the show, and wanted Spurstalk feedback.

Spurs are going to find themselves with a tough decision next year. What do they do with Manu.

As you know, they broke off contract extension talks when Manu had ankle surgery in the offseason after the Olympics.

Now with the other ankle possibly giving him issues, they are going to have take a long look at the future of him with the Spurs.

With Manu being a Free Agent in 2010. Do the Spurs extend him at $10mil plus? Do they ask him to take a pay cut? Or do they thank him for his time with the Spurs and wish him well?

Loyalty Vs Business

[xtremesteven33]

Ask him to take a paycut.

[mexicanjunior]

Trade him while he still has some value...

[traitoravery]

cut him sign someone young to compliment tony

[timvp]

Depends on his health. As long as he's healthy, I extend him for basically whatever it takes to keep him.

[PeterBurns]

If you're Manu's Agent and Spurs offer $5M, and someone else offers $8M+. How would he turn it down?

[KenMcCoy]

If there is a chance for more rings Manu will take a cut. If not, he'll retire or go play in europe.

[meestahmeestah]

I don't see how you sign a 30 something year old guy with 1 bad/reconstructed wheel and 1 possibly-bad-wheel-but-we-don't-know-yet who plays that style to a $10MM/yr. contract. Hopefully the Spurs learned their "let's reward you for what you've done" lesson and don't pull a Malik Rose they have to get out from under in a year or two.

Definitely offer a contract, but not at "Big 3" dollars. You just can't do that.

[AnotherArgie]

Depends on his health. As long as he's healthy, I extend him for basically whatever it takes to keep him.

+1

Yes, it's really bad timing to put a poll like this right now...

[Spurminator]

I'm not convinced we would sign anyone that would qualify as an improvement over Manu, regardless of his condition.

[Josepatches_]

Trade Tony and Manu for someone who can help Tim to win until he retires

[urunobili]

5 Mill... PeterBurns... couldn't you start this thread in a month or two? :depressed

[PeterBurns]

It will be a touchy situation. The Spurs are like a deer. They scramble at the littlest scary thing. Trust me, they wouldn't have pulled the trigger on a trade unless it was a no-brainer, and once this issue with Manu popped up, they scampered back into the woods. And that's another reason why I like the Spurs FO

[ducks]

Depends on his health. As long as he's healthy, I extend him for basically whatever it takes to keep him.

cop out answer

[benefactor]

If he continues to have injury problems, let him walk. Otherwise, I think he can be convinced by Tim Duncan's example and sign for less so the team will have flexibility.

[galvatron3000]

not tough, just wait and see how well he plays this season and next and how well his body holds up, either way he will have to take a pay cut given his age and the surrounding players on the team. If he requires more money then it maybe time to part ways from a business standpoint and seek other options in 2010. I love Manu but this is business not personal but I do think the Spurs payng Parker more was crazy at the time it was done. Manu should be making more or the same as Tony.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Offer Mid-level money on an extension. That is the type money Manu will be offered as a free agent. I doubt another team is going to pay a 32-year-old player with an increasing injury history big time money of $10 million. In this recession/depression with a bunch of teams losing big time money?

[benefactor]

If you're Manu's Agent and Spurs offer $5M, and someone else offers $8M+. How would he turn it down?
I honestly think that he would go back to Argentina if the Spurs don't re-sign him. IIRC, he has hinted at this already.

[ducks]

plays maybe great 20 minutes a game
great players get paid 10 million for 35 minutes
worth no more then mle

[Jayem]

Trade him while he still has some value...
yep, should of done this after he didn't show up in the lakers series last year.

bye bye manu!

[urunobili]

It will be a touchy situation. The Spurs are like a deer. They scramble at the littlest scary thing. Trust me, they wouldn't have pulled the trigger on a trade unless it was a no-brainer, and once this issue with Manu popped up, they scampered back into the woods. And that's another reason why I like the Spurs FO

you should have made it a public poll so we could see who voted what :stirpot:

[ducks]

Trade Tony and Manu for someone who can help Tim to win until he retires

yeah because manu and tp did nothing in title runs spurs had

[spurtech09]

I'm not going to worry about it intill that day comes...For now I just want to wish manu the best and hope everything is fine with him.......

[PeterBurns]

5 Mill... PeterBurns... couldn't you start this thread in a month or two? :depressed

I know, but all of the talk about contracts and the future of the market in 2010 had a lot to do with the trade talks that happened this year.

Lots of teams trying to move salaries. And It sucks because as a Spurs fan, I really want Manu to retire a Spur, but at the same time also believes that he should get the most amount of money that he can command. The guy gives it his all.

I hope for everything that they keep this trio intact until 2012. Then let the rebuilding process begin. I just hope casual Spurs fan smarts up and start appreciating this team more, and how the FO has done a great job of building this cast.

[coyotes_geek]

Give him the extension, but protect yourself with partial guarantees and/or incentives for number of games played.

[urunobili]

yep, should of done this after he didn't show up in the lakers series last year.

bye bye manu!

you look good on pink... sexy... :lmao

[ducks]

If you're Manu's Agent and Spurs offer $5M, and someone else offers $8M+. How would he turn it down?

by saying no
one word NO
that is how he would turn it down
duncan turned down money
bowen did

[porksword]

I think we trade his rights to a Greek team since they have the best basketball players and teams in the world. they soon will have Lebron and Kobe, so why not let Manu compete against the best.

Good luck in Greece, Manu.

[urunobili]

by saying no
one word NO
that is how he would turn it down
duncan turned down money
bowen did

You think TP would??? You're a joke... :lol

[meestahmeestah]

Manu should be making more or the same as Tony.

this wasn't possible as TP was on a 1st round pay scale and Manu was on a 2nd round pay scale...Manu could only make TP money if the Spurs renounced his rights and signed up as a FA instead of extending/re-signing.

someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but have the Spurs ever renounced Manu's rights?

[chreph]

Include him in a trade that involves Brook Lopez :depressed I love Gino but I was really holding out hope that the Spurs were going to use him in the VC deal to somehow get Lopez to learn next to Timmy.

[ducks]

he did
he gave in and signed his extension
just minutes before the extension deadline
saved spurs alot of money

[urunobili]

Include him in a trade that involves Brook Lopez :depressed I love Gino but I was really holding out hope that the Spurs were going to use him in the VC deal to somehow get Lopez to learn next to Timmy.

Splitter>>>>>>>>>> Lopez

[galvatron3000]

this wasn't possible as TP was on a 1st round pay scale and Manu was on a 2nd round pay scale...Manu could only make TP money if the Spurs renounced his rights and signed up as a FA instead of extending/re-signing.

someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but have the Spurs ever renounced Manu's rights?

ok, thanks for clearing that up

[chreph]

Splitter>>>>>>>>>> Lopez

I'd love for that to happen, too. But if he comes here at all, Tim will turn 36 in (or near) the playoffs in his rookie season :( Not quite the same scenario

[coyotes_geek]

this wasn't possible as TP was on a 1st round pay scale and Manu was on a 2nd round pay scale...Manu could only make TP money if the Spurs renounced his rights and signed up as a FA instead of extending/re-signing.

someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but have the Spurs ever renounced Manu's rights?

They used capspace to re-sign him, but they never renounced their rights to him.

[SPURS21]

Attempt to trade him while he still has value. This team is a borderline championsip contender with Manu at 100%. With Manu at anything less we are pretenders. Only reason to give Manu the 10+ is if we settle the big man dilemma and are assured he is the missing peice.

Right now I'd like to focus on putting youth around TD and Parker. Manu, Oberto, Udoka could pull some nice talent in return this offseason IMO

[DDS4]

If I recall, when Manu resigned, he took less with the Spurs than what Denver offered him. So essentially, he took a pay cut then and asking him to do it again will be a bit much.

This is possibly Manu's last long term contract left in him.

[TDMVPDPOY]

his only worth watever the MLE is going to be

anything more than that is just overpaying him

ps. this should also apply to rasheed if we are signin him next season....MLE or under...anything more than that we dont need him.....

[NFGIII]

Depends on his health. As long as he's healthy, I extend him for basically whatever it takes to keep him.

Agreed. It all depends on his health. I voted for a pay cut due to that condition, which wasn't there. If he is healthy there are few like him so give him what it will take to keep him. He's that good. If injured then I think he will understand why the Spurs would offer a pay cut. Unfortunately if injured some other GM will offer him a boatload of cash and Manu would be stupid not to take it. I always keep in mind that this is a business.

[timvp]

If Manu returns in the 2-3 weeks as prescribed and he stays healthy the rest of the year, I have no problem with a two-year, $18-20M extension.

[Agloco]

Trade him while he still has some value...

+1

He's getting older and starting to show it. He's going to hit a wall soon.

[TDMVPDPOY]

If Manu returns in the 2-3 weeks as prescribed and he stays healthy the rest of the year, I have no problem with a two-year, $18-20M extension.

is that for rewarding loyalty? thats stupid....

[rascal]

If Manu returns in the 2-3 weeks as prescribed and he stays healthy the rest of the year, I have no problem with a two-year, $18-20M extension.

That will doom Duncans final years with a team not talented enough to win. The spurs will be tied up financially as Manu breaks down and his game deteriorates as he gets older.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if your going to throw 10-20m at ginoboli for 2 years? might as well try look at a good FA in that range....

[Juanobili]

It's the hair

[TMTTRIO]

I guess it just depends on his health and how he's playing. If he's healthy I can see him resign with the Spurs. If he continues to be injury prone and since he's accomplished all that he can in the league, I can see him hang it up and go work with his NT that I've heard him say that he wanted to be involved with after retiring.

[ElNono]

It's not only what the Spurs want. Even if the Spurs asked him to cut back on the salary, if Manu thinks he's fine and will be fine, and his health is good at that time, he might not want to extend for whatever the Spurs offer and go test the free agent market. This is a business, and players will try to maximize their earnings throughout their short career.

[temujin]

I think we trade his rights to a Greek team since they have the best basketball players and teams in the world. they soon will have Lebron and Kobe, so why not let Manu compete against the best.

Good luck in Greece, Manu.

You can bet he'd rather be in Greece competing for a title, than in the NBA with any of the 25 irrelevant teams that exist just to move folks to the gym for nothing.

[ElNono]

If anyone on any NBA team ould take a paycut to stay with their team it would be Manu. San Antonio is a perfect fit for him, and even he said if San Antonio ever didn't want him he'd probably go overseas again and make more money than he would have with the Spurs.

I think so too, but then you have to consider he's not getting any younger and if he can make 3x what the Spurs offer somewhere else, it would be retarded not to. Heck, I even think Pop would tell him that.

[mystargtr34]

by saying no
one word NO
that is how he would turn it down
duncan turned down money
bowen did

Yea, when Tony and his agent were crying over the fact that Gilbert Arenas was getting $2 M more over 5 years.

Bowen and Duncan are the only two to have gone that way, not Tony.

[spursfan09]

Ugh Duncan has made his millions, Tony Parker was coming off a rookie contract wasnt he?

[Mal]

If Manu returns in the 2-3 weeks as prescribed and he stays healthy the rest of the year, I have no problem with a two-year, $18-20M extension.

3 years would be great for both sides

[HarlemHeat37]

it's hard to say no, but at this point, I'd have to say no..it would take a big improvement the rest of the year for me to want Manu on the team longer than next year..he would have to take a big pay cut, and even then, I don't know..

I honestly think I would rather trade his contract next year..if teams are still trying to shed major salary next year, we'll be able to get something for him in the off-season, or at next year's deadline..

if we manage to win the title, which is unlikely(possible, but slim chance), I would take him back on the team, assuming he would have a big part in it..that's really what it would take for me..

I'm a fan of the team, not the name of the player..

[coyotes_geek]

3 years would be great for both sides

Zero percent chance of Manu getting 3 years. Two is the Magic number because that would have his contract lined up to expire the same time as Tim's which would create the opportunity for having cap space.

[Holt's Cat]

I'm not convinced we would sign anyone that would qualify as an improvement over Manu, regardless of his condition.

Exactly. Spurs fans expect players to play for free. Man I hate them.

[baseline bum]

That's a bridge the team will have to wait until 2010 to cross. Obviously Manu's next to impossible to replace, but his balls-out style, reminiscent of Bird, Iverson, and Wade, already seems to have his body breaking down. Tough call. We'll have to see how well Manu's body holds up to another year and a half of NBA basketball.

[Ditty]

i say well sign im until 2012 in 2110 when hes a free agen opefully he'll take a 2 year 6 million dollar contract

[xellos88330]

I would ask him to take a pay cut. His health has become a problem as of late, and the way he plays only compounds it. Then again, I am not making the decisions.

[Jmoney]

I'm guessing at 2010 his contract will look something like this

2010-2011 5 mil

2011-2012 5 mil base +2 mil incentive be active for 70 games=1 mil be active for all for all games= +2 mil

2012-2013 5.5 mil team option

I also expect Duncan's next contract will be in the 15 mil range and not at his current 20+ mil

The contract Tony gets will most likely be in the 18 mil range

[Typhoon]

I doubt Ginobili is going to take a pay cut, he already did it... Denver offered him a lot more money but he decided to take less to stay with the Spurs a while back.

[raspsa]

It depends on how he performs for the balance of the current season. If he finishes strong like the manu of old, give him what he wants. If he underperforms, still tru to sign him but obviosly for less.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Folks here obviously don't understand or realise the heart of a champion like Manu. He might have his wheels in cotton these days, but no one is more determined than him to be able to come back and turn things around in a matter of days. Sample his recovery from the left ankle surgery early season and his performance since comeback. My gut says Manu is back in 3 weeks and goes on to tear up the league just like last season till the late playoffs.

Knowing Pop/RCB for who they are, they will sign Manu for a contract worth $15-17 each for 2 or maybe 3 more years coinciding with Duncan's expiring years considering that performance. And knowing Manu, he *will* accept. He didn't ply his early days in Juventut for nothing. The basic philosophy guiding Manu's basketball life is simple: WIN. The other things; money for e.g. come in automatically - enough for the decent life and the pleasures of being an icon in Argentina.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Manu will stay.

How do you low-ball someone who has been grossly underpaid during his prime?

Manu will get his payday. 2 yrs $25M or so, just like Bowen did, albeit on a smaller scale.

The Spurs are a model franchise for a reason.

[holcs50]

This is easy-you really have to wait to see how he holds up health wise the next year and a half or so of ball. If he stays near full health and returns to the manu before his injury last year then you obviously pay the man for a few more years-if more injuries go on and he is obviously lacking a step or so you really gotta look elsewhere. Just going to have to wait though-no one knows right now

[Deimosfobos]

I really don't like this atm... speaking of kicking a horse when is down.

[024]

signing ginobili to what he is earning now or more will be a gamble. by 2010, he will be 33. a lot of his playing style is reliant on a young body that can absorb contact and damage. ankle injuries that have plagued him last season and this season is not a good sign. it's hard to name any guard that can consistently penetrate the lane at the age of 33. only guard i can think of is allen iverson because his health has been keeping up with him. but you can tell even iverson is slowing down. ginobili may have a heart of a champion but he does not have the 25 year old body to match.

extending him for two more years until he's 35 at $12 million+ i think is a bad investment. priority here is tim duncan, not manu ginobili. it may seem bad to offer someone who has contributed so much in past seasons less money but again, the spurs have to make every decision that would give duncan more chances of winning a championship. the spurs owe duncan more than they owe ginobili. signing ginobili to a higher contract would kill the 2010 plan to bring in young talent and force the spurs every year to gamble on ginobili's health and effectiveness. ultimately, depending on this season's playoffs and next season, spurs need to focus on tim duncan's chances not on a way to repay ginobili.

[Capt Bringdown]

Manu's fragile health cost us last year, and this year looks bad too.

Manu should take a pay cut, although that's a rather half-assed solution. It's becoming pretty clear that there will be injury drama from Manu for the rest of his career. He needs to shipped while we can still get something for him.

[Yorae]

Stop pretending troll.....

[TMTTRIO]

I can understand wanting to wait until 2010 to see where he's at and what he can produce but at the same time it could be a gamble if he does come back and shows he can contribute in the ways he has been doing. If he can, I can see some teams coming after him and still offering him a good contract and this time I think he would consider it if we didn't offer him a fair deal. He's already took less money to stay here and played the sixth man off the bench after all these years. On the other hand it looks like a lot of teams are going to be tight that year because of the cap so it may not matter. I still see a possibility that Manu goes and plays in Europe where he started his career.

[smeagol]

Why the fuck are you guys talking about an extension when Manu has to be traded before the current contract ends . . .

[coyotes_geek]

The problem with waiting until 2010 to decide what to do with Manu is that even as a free agent he'll be hitting the Spurs cap figure at the value of a max contract. If the Spurs believe that Manu will be used up by then, then it's not a problem and the Spurs just renounce the guy and go sign someone else. But if Manu shows that he's still got something left then the Spurs are kind of in a pickle because Manu will be on the open market fielding offers and the Spurs won't be able to sign anyone else until they get something done with Manu so that his cap figure drops from the max to whatever he signs for.

If I were RC, I'd offer Manu an extension this offseason looking something like this.

$5 mil guaranteed for 2010/2011. Goes up to $10 mil if he plays in at least 70 games in 2009/2010.

$2 mil guarantee for 2011/2012. Goes up to $5 mil if he plays in at least 70 games in 2010/2011. Goes up to $10 mil if he plays in at least 70 games in 2011/2012.

[tmtcsc]

I suspect and would hope that they will offer him a 4 year deal at 8.5 Million per, with the fourth year being a team option. I can see Manu adjusting his game to be more of a perimeter player like he did last year. Because he likes to win, he'd probably accept it and retire a Spur.

[Bruno]

But if Manu shows that he's still got something left then the Spurs are kind of in a pickle because Manu will be on the open market fielding offers and the Spurs won't be able to sign anyone else until they get something done with Manu so that his cap figure drops from the max to whatever he signs for.


Spurs can renounce to Manu's bird rights if it takes time to negotiate a new contract with him.
The only drawback of doing that is that the contract will have 8% raise and not 10.5% raises. This drawback is damn small.

[MB20]

Not 10m/year. But not 5m/year either.
Everybody puts a little on the table and Manu signs for 7.5 m/year.

[nkdlunch]

ducks is stupid

[Bruno]

It's damn impossible to say how much money Manu will be worth in 2010. It will badly depends if he stays healthy and age doesn't catch him up.

Given Manu's health troubles, Spurs best interest is to wait a little before offering an extension to Manu.

[Drom John]

I didn't like the options, so I voted for free agency.
In free agency, be the top bidder, which I expect would be less than $10M 3 years.
I expect that the Spurs could make the same deal before free agency.

[coyotes_geek]

If Manu comes back in 3 weeks and plays well the rest of the season without any injury hiccups I can't see the Spurs not signing him to a 2 year extension. That extension still having some kind of injury protection for the Spurs.

[Mavs<Spurs]

if manu comes back in 3 weeks and plays well the rest of the season without any injury hiccups i can't see the spurs not signing him to a 2 year extension. That extension still having some kind of injury protection for the spurs.

+ 1

[beck253]

I really can't believe the responses in here...
Manu has been one of the most overproducing player, leaving out rookie contracts, in the whole NBA for the last 5 years... but let's review the facts:

In 2005-2006-2007, all of those seasons, Manu was comfortably in the Top 5 at SG and Top 25 overall. But he didn't cut Top 70 by pay.

Last season (07-08), he was selected ALL-NBA, that means he was Top 15 in the league. He even was a low Top 10 in the MVP vote. He was the 2nd best at SG behind Kobe.
AND HE WASNT EVEN IN THE TOP 60 SALARIES!
THE SALARY OF THE 15TH PLAYER? 16 MILLIONS. SPURS GOT 50% OFF!!!

This season, 08-09, he is still Top 10 in PER but let's agree he has descended a step: Down to 4th in SG, behind Kobe, Wade, and Roy. Manu is closer to Roy than the rest of the pack to him (K Martin, J Johnson, Carter and Allen).

He is still in Top 20 overall. Don’t like him that much, want to be unfair? Let's say Top 25-30.
He is only 58th in pay. The 30th is making 14.5 million, 40% Off for Spurs again!

Don't overplay the injury card, all players have them. Going by games missed, Manu has missed around 70 in seven seasons that turn into 8 with playoffs. Thats 4 games a year over the average of players who play 25 mins or more...

All this people who are saying MLE level... do you know what MLE is? Do you really believe than in 18 MONTHS form now Manu is going to become AVERAGE? That there are gonna be 120-150 players better than him?

I am betting to you all, and I hope this thread doesn't vanish, Manu is still Top 30 overall by then and still Top 50 at the end of 2012 season...

Even keeping him at present salary would still be getting him a little on the cheap side, after getting thru all his prime at a RIDICULOUSLY LOW price (Sports Guy Bill Simmons labeled Manu's actual contract as the 3rd best in the whole NBA).

And you want to lowball him even more, saying Manu is going to be worth of only a MLE. Same as, let’s say, Luke Walton? Please.

I am relieved I think the people who really matter in this thing, Pop and RC in particular, are a lot smarter and fair than the prevalent view in this topic.

If I am wrong (and I really hope I'm not, because both the Spurs and Manu deserve that he retires as one) then I sincerely would like Manu to sign with some other contender, so you can truly appreciate missing him and all that you are taking for granted, while a lot of people in this thread are looking for places within their bodies to locate that MLE offer you presented to him.

[Brazil]

Extend Him at $10Mil+ A Year Till 2012 (Tim's Deal)

[MB20]

And you want to lowball him even more, saying Manu is going to be worth of only a MLE. Same as, let’s say, Luke Walton? Please.


Or Beno Udrih

:downspin:

[ulosturedge]

He should take less. 5mil a year though? I think that might be too low. As 10mil is too high. Depends on how severe his injuries are. You could say we are risking more nagging injuries for the next 3 years or w/e, but also you can't replace championship experience. This guy knows how to win, well when he's healthy atleast. He can change the way the game is going any minute. I think some of you guys easily forget. Anyone here have any sense of loyalty? He's earned the right to retire a spur if he is willing to concede paywise as he gets older.

[ulosturedge]

10 M aint too high actually.It is actually too cheap to be Honest.

It is if he is gonna be riddled with injuries the rest of his career.

[coyotes_geek]

It is if he is gonna be riddled with injuries the rest of his career.

Hence the need for some kind of performance based contract. If he's able to play, he gets his money. If not, the Spurs are protected.

[Blue-Lightning]

Timmy, Tony, Bruce, and Manu. These players have earned retiring as Spurs. Manu is still a top 5 SG in the league RIGHT NOW on a bum leg. And he has proven that come playoff time, he can turn it up a notch above that.

Unless you're going to pick up Kobe Bryant in his place, I say you stick with the third best SG in the NBA.

BL

[Spursfan092120]

I honestly think that he would go back to Argentina if the Spurs don't re-sign him. IIRC, he has hinted at this already.

I agree...I truly believe that Manu is loyal to the Spurs...it's either San Antonio, or Argentina.

[stéphane]

I love Manu,as a player and for the good character guy he seems to be off the court.
As some stated, he overproduced during his contract meaning he gave us more than what he earned (not by much though but still a bit). The right price is not what other teams (crappy ones let's say) would have paid him. This way of thinking just drags team down and produce some horrible contracts.
But as classy as the organisation is and as much as Manu deserves to retire as a Spur, the franchise is still all about business. I would really be surprised to see them give Manu a $10+M extension. He deserved more yes but that won't be a reason for overpaying him in 3years when he'll be performing less.
Let's say you like Ice creams and you found someone that sell awesome ones for cheap, but one day the quality decreases and the price increases a little. Are you going to pay w/o looking at your options or trying to get them for cheaper arguing that they aren't as good as they used to be? Or are you just going to say well it was my seller for a long time so I'm going to overpay a so so product.
It's not because it doesn't come directly from your wallet that he doesn't come from someone's.

[smeagol]

ducks is stupid

in other news: the sky is blue

[roycrikside]

is that for rewarding loyalty? thats stupid....

I'm guessing it's probably because when he's been healthy he's still been a top 20 NBA player. At 10 mil Manu would be a bargain, even at 25-28 mpg.

[zinagray]

I say pay cut.