the official Finley-watch thread..

[HarlemHeat37]

I know some of you are tired of Finley bashing threads, it probably gets annoying..this isn't a "bash Finley" thread though..I think there should be a thread to monitor him though, instead of multiple threads about him..

let's talk about what we're noticing in his game..improvements in his defense, shooting, or whatever..or if he's struggling, we can discuss that as well, instead of making multiple threads..

[Spurs Brazil]

improvements in his defense

:rollin:lmao

:depressed

[loveforthegame]

He's already costing us early in the Pistons game.

[hater]

Finley brick

[coyotes_geek]

8 points on 3-5 shooting. The guy he was guarding all game, Prince, 8 points on 3-10. All in all, a good game for Fin.

[EricB]

?

Silence?

Shocking.

[HarlemHeat37]

solid game..

he's been due though..so let's see if he can do it on a consistent basis..

regardless of what he does, I'm always going to feel like he should be a 15 MPG guy, but I'll give him credit when he produces..

[Spurminator]

I propose a Parker Watch thread too. Maybe if we can filter out the irrationally over-the-top and predictable bitching about the same specific players, the game blog threads won't be so fucking unbearable anymore.

[xtremesteven33]

Ill never understand the love Pop has for Finley.....

[EricB]

Ill never understand the love Pop has for Finley.....


Other than the clutch rebound and shots he made tonight?

:rolleyes

[EricB]

I propose a Parker Watch thread too. Maybe if we can filter out the irrationally over-the-top and predictable bitching about the same specific players, the game blog threads won't be so fucking unbearable anymore.


But those are the "true" fans Spurm.

Get it right.

[SpursFan0728]

Finely sucks. Period.

Any guard in the nba can produce as much as him

[crc21209]

I still think Bruce should be starting ahead of Fin at some point SOON. Fin can still play spot up minutes though.

[HarlemHeat37]

I wouldn't mind Finley being an offensive spark at all..but at some point, we need to get back to playing great D, so we need Bowen playing more..

[xtremesteven33]

Other than the clutch rebound and shots he made tonight?

:rolleyes



Yea it took him about 3-4 games to show up and hit 2 3 pointers....screw that man.

[EricB]

Yea it took him about 3-4 games to show up and hit 2 3 pointers....screw that man.

:lol

Yeah screw the guy that helped win the game.

Fuck him.

Idiot.

[coyotes_geek]

Ill never understand the love Pop has for Finley.....

It's because Finley needs to guard guys like Tayshaun Prince. Bigger 3's who can score inside. The guys who are too big/too strong for Mason and too quick for Bonner. Bruce can guard those guys, but that's kind of wasting his talents because Bruce is at his best chasing guys out on the perimeter.

[xtremesteven33]

:lol

Yeah screw the guy that helped win the game.

Fuck him.

Idiot.



I never said "Fuck him" or "Screw him".

I mean screw the idea of playing an old player who cant jump,cant dribble,cant defend, cant catch a ball just for him to show up every 3 games and hit shots.

You are the idiot.

[EricB]

I never said "Fuck him" or "Screw him".

I mean screw the idea of playing an old player who cant jump,cant dribble,cant defend, cant catch a ball just for him to show up every 3 games and hit shots.

You are the idiot.


:lol


I love it, every year someone bags on Finley at this time of year identically and every year in March and April he starts hitting his stride again making the fucknuts STFU.

Can't wait for it to happen again.

[George.W.Bush]

Michael Finley scores 8 points tonight. That is all folks.

[Holt's Cat]

Finley was solid tonight. I'm not sure why there's so much hate for him in the forum. Malik Hairston sure Carmelo-ized Detroit tonight.

[Borosai]

Finley should be the 4th 2-3. He doesn't deserve the minutes he gets, let alone a starting job. His statline is full of zeros, and it's not like Bowen, who impacts the game in other ways. Finley truly does nothing unless he's making shots, and that happens once every 5 games. Bring him off the bench when everyone else is cold, and hope it's one of those nights.

[mexicanjunior]

:lol


I love it, every year someone bags on Finley at this time of year identically and every year in March and April he starts hitting his stride again making the fucknuts STFU.

Can't wait for it to happen again.

Maybe he should save some of that stride for May and June...

[xtremesteven33]

Maybe he should save some of that stride for May and June...

:toast
Thank you

Tell this ERICB character to know his role. :lol

[loveforthegame]

Maybe we should be having a Roger Mason watch too. He's not exactly lighting it up either.

Finley was solid tonight. It's not like he was an option on offense so nice to see him hit the few shots he was given. His defense on Prince was better than I expected. I was surprised the Pistons didn't try to exploit that matchup actually.

It's only one step in the right direction so we'll see how he responds in the next few games.

[wisnub]

He used to be an All star caliber player with money shots all day long....but his days are over. SA is not Dallas. Hes pretty much done and sucks like hell but somehow Pop love him so much...I dont know what kind of service Finley give to Fo outside the court...

[SenorSpur]

Finley guarding Prince is a joke. I'm always amazed that as long as he's been playing basketball, he's never learned how to seek, and block out the nearest opponent on the defensive glass. He just lets anyone waltz in for an offensive rebound. Amazing.

[WalterBenitez]

FInley sucks

[jtbrock01]

something how all you guys know so much more than pop and the rest of the coaching staff.

[jtbrock01]

something how he can go to a team like yur spurs and for some reason have a spot. must have something left....

[EricB]

Finley guarding Prince is a joke. I'm always amazed that as long as he's been playing basketball, he's never learned how to seek, and block out the nearest opponent on the defensive glass. He just lets anyone waltz in for an offensive rebound. Amazing.


Prince 3-10

Oops....

[EricB]

Dallas was right all along and that piss's me off more than anything.


That he would help win a championship and still be a solid contributer?

Yeah, that pisses everyone off.

Re fucking tard.

[Holt's Cat]

Dallas was right all along and that piss's me off more than anything.

That Finley wasn't worth $100 million? Real tough call.

Finley's been fine in SA.

[EricB]

Maybe he should save some of that stride for May and June...


Miss his first two years here ?

He was fantastic in his first two post seasons and helped the Spurs get out of the first round last year against Phoenix.

[EricB]

He used to be an All star caliber player with money shots all day long....but his days are over. SA is not Dallas. Hes pretty much done and sucks like hell but somehow Pop love him so much...I dont know what kind of service Finley give to Fo outside the court...


Made big shots was good defensively and got a key rebound in crunch time.

Drink draino.

[The Truth #6]

Finley had some nice brief moments tonight.

Prince didn't have a good game but I don't recall Finley locking him down. In fact I remember one moment where Fin let Prince go right by him to the rim and then turned around to watch him get a wide open dunk. Pop didn't even seem visibly upset.

I'm happy for whatever Fin can give us because clearly he isn't going anywhere. He's a way better shooter than Hairston and has more poise. Hairston should still get more minutes than he's getting though.

[pad300]

Miss his first two years here ?

He was fantastic in his first two post seasons and helped the Spurs get out of the first round last year against Phoenix.

Yeah, his 1st two postseasons (and regular seasons, by the by) here were good enough, but last season, sticks out a lot.
MPG PTS RED EFG
31.6 10.5 3.8 0.562
26.9 11.3 2.9 0.534
23 6.7 1.9 0.491

In the regular season, this and last season also stick out; as a an example, consider his PER (for his 4 seasons here, including the partial one to date) 12.7 13.7 11.4 10.8. This has been his worst season for us. His previous season was not good enough, IMO, to justify the minutes he got. The same thing is true this season... We need, IMO, to transition away from him; he's not strong enough defensively to justify his presence on the court, with this caliber of defensive performances.

[EricB]

What is Hairston doing exactly other than fouling, proving he deserves more minutes?

[angelbelow]

hes got his good days and obviously his bad. so far i havent been disappointed in him. hes pretty old too, 35 or 36. considering his age, hes not that bad.

[MI21]

Finley guarding Prince is a joke. I'm always amazed that as long as he's been playing basketball, he's never learned how to seek, and block out the nearest opponent on the defensive glass. He just lets anyone waltz in for an offensive rebound. Amazing.

Prince has always, particularly in the final 5 minutes of games, been a very good offensive rebounder. As the game goes on, everyone gets tired, but his arms don't get shorter and he good height and very sneaky athleticism. He gets offensive rebounds against everybody and sometimes it doesn't matter if he is boxed out. He is that sort of player.

I thought Finley did a fine job on Prince, particularly fighting him for position down low where Prince is a nightmare. Finley was making it tough for the Pistons to even make the pass. He had 3 FG's, one of them off of poor rotations and lack of communication, leading to a dunk, one on a long jumpshot and the last one I can't recall.

[MI21]

Tayshaun had 2 Offensive rebounds, one with Hairston on him (Hairston did a great job defensively on that play FWIW) and one a few minutes into the game during a period where I'm pretty sure Finley was switched off onto someone else.

[Bruno]

I had some doubts about Finley after last year playoffs be he has bounce back and he is having a solid season.
He surely doesn't deserve all the bashing he gets on this board.

[Josepatches_]

:lol

Yeah screw the guy that helped win the game.

Fuck him.

Idiot.

+1

Finley will not be all star anymore.Forget that guy.

Now he is a veteran who can help the team.That's his role and he does it well.That's why Pop loves Finley.

[EricB]

I had some doubts about Finley after last year playoffs be he has bounce back and he is having a solid season.
He surely doesn't deserve all the bashing he gets on this board.

Amen.

[SenorSpur]

That he would help win a championship and still be a solid contributer?

Yeah, that pisses everyone off.

Re fucking tard.

Finley's inability to keep box out is the joke - no matter the opponent.

[Spurs Brazil]

I don't hate Finley. I think he's playing good this season, especially after the terrible playoffs last season.

I just wanto to see Bruce playing Finley minutes, because we need more D and Finley off the bench for 15-18 minutes to provide the O

[I Love Me Some Me]

Finley guarding Prince is a joke. I'm always amazed that as long as he's been playing basketball, he's never learned how to seek, and block out the nearest opponent on the defensive glass. He just lets anyone waltz in for an offensive rebound. Amazing.

For what it's worth, when Pop was subbing offense/defense last night, he had Bowen coming in for Mason...not Finley.

[urunobili]

Can someone make a .gif of the image yesterday when Pop touched his ass after he made a J?

[MI21]

Bag on Finley for his defense during the season as much as you want but in the Piston game he was good.

[Brazil]

i had some doubts about finley after last year playoffs be he has bounce back and he is having a solid season.
He surely doesn't deserve all the bashing he gets on this board.

+1

[ElNono]

We barely squeaked by a team that lost 8 of the last 9 and Finley was our saviour? Please. Finley has been done since last season. He started this season well offensively, but regressed quickly enough. And his defense has always been, at best, suspect.
Prince had a bad shooting night, and here's another guy that used to post people up and nowadays is just settling for jumpers. Finley had very little to do with that.
Now, I do think it's unfair to bitch about his defense, because he was never a good defender. He just always managed to offset that with his offense, but when he's sucking on O as he has been for a while now, he's just dead weight on the court. I'd like to see the plus/minus average on him for the past 10 games or so...

[Spurminator]

I'd like to see the plus/minus average on him for the past 10 games or so...

Finley Average = +4.5
Team Average = +3.9
Roger Mason Jr. Avg = +2.0

I did not count the Denver game since Finley sat that one out.

[mexicanjunior]

Miss his first two years here ?

He was fantastic in his first two post seasons and helped the Spurs get out of the first round last year against Phoenix.

Ok, he has been here 4 years...so your reason for defending him is what he did 2 years ago and a few good games against the Suns last year? Nice... :lol

[ElNono]

Finley Average = +4.5
Team Average = +3.9
Roger Mason Jr. Avg = +2.0

I did not count the Denver game since Finley sat that one out.

Thanks. And you did obviously right in not counting the Denver game.
It must be all perception then!

[xtremesteven33]

I dont hate Finley. I really dont. I try and look at the positives he brings to this team. But its painfully obvious that if Finley isnt making his shots he is of no use.

-Poor defender (sometimes mediocre)
-Poor rebounder
-Soft
-Slow
-Poor dribbler
-Poor Athletecism

Finley is the definition of streaky. When he is on he is a fantastic addition to this team. But those nights (we all know) come rarely. Kinda like once every 10-15 games. I dont hate Finley, I just get mad that Pop doesnt limit his minutes when hes obviously hurting the team.

Maybe last night he did decent but the past 4-5 games hes been horrible and in no way should he be playing that many minutes over Hairston.

[urunobili]

Can someone make a .gif of the image yesterday when Pop touched his ass after he made a J?

[HarlemHeat37]

Finley's +/- isn't a good indication, since most of his minutes come with the starters..

the main reason Finley shouldn't be starting, is that we already have 3 other average/below average defensive players in our starting lineup..Parker, Mason, and Bonner are having trouble defending at a consistent level..we can't have 4, we need Bowen to start..

Finley can still be useful as an offensive spark, but like Bonner, he shouldn't be starting for a top team..

[EricB]

Ok, he has been here 4 years...so your reason for defending him is what he did 2 years ago and a few good games against the Suns last year? Nice... :lol


My reason for defending him is past contributions and his contributions this year.

He was the second best and third best scorer for long stretches this season and is probably enjoying his best season right now as a Spur.

That's why.

[EricB]

Finley's +/- isn't a good indication, since most of his minutes come with the starters..

the main reason Finley shouldn't be starting, is that we already have 3 other average/below average defensive players in our starting lineup..Parker, Mason, and Bonner are having trouble defending at a consistent level..we can't have 4, we need Bowen to start..

Finley can still be useful as an offensive spark, but like Bonner, he shouldn't be starting for a top team..


Yeah top teams don't need starting centers that get 15 and 7 against top teams like Detroit.

[HarlemHeat37]

there's no reason Bonner can't score big off the bench..

he's a defensive liability though, especially when you're already starting Parker, Mason, and Finley, 3 average to bad defensive players..you can't surround Duncan with 4 guys that don't play consistent D..

[Spurminator]

Finley's +/- isn't a good indication, since most of his minutes come with the starters..

So do Mason's. But I agree +/- is a flawed stat. I was just providing it in response to ElNono's post.


the main reason Finley shouldn't be starting, is that we already have 3 other average/below average defensive players in our starting lineup..Parker, Mason, and Bonner are having trouble defending at a consistent level..we can't have 4, we need Bowen to start..

Finley can still be useful as an offensive spark, but like Bonner, he shouldn't be starting for a top team..

We're in agreement about Bowen starting, and I have been saying all season that he would be starting in the Playoffs. But why not start Finley with Bowen and bring Mason off the bench for a spark?

To me, they're pretty interchangeable. Finley has a stigma that he has earned over the course of his years with the Spurs, while Mason is the fresh young face who has hit some really big shots in marquee games this season. But as far as their regular contributions, they're both on about the same level.

Yet by reading this forum you get the impression we're talking about Steve Smith vs. Stephen Jackson.

[pad300]

To me, they're pretty interchangeable. Finley has a stigma that he has earned over the course of his years with the Spurs, while Mason is the fresh young face who has hit some really big shots in marquee games this season. But as far as their regular contributions, they're both on about the same level.

Yet by reading this forum you get the impression we're talking about Steve Smith vs. Stephen Jackson.

Finley is shooting .378 from the 3. Mason is shooting .439. Mason does a much better job of spreading the floor. Although Mason's not hot stuff as a defender himself, he's better than Finley...

If you like the win shares statistical methods (David Berry), Mason is posting 0.080 WS/48, while Finley is posting 0.009 WS/48...

I'd say there is pretty compelling statistical evidence that Mason's more productive.

[Spurminator]

Finley is shooting .378 from the 3. Mason is shooting .439. Mason does a much better job of spreading the floor. Although Mason's not hot stuff as a defender himself, he's better than Finley...

If you like the win shares statistical methods (David Berry), Mason is posting 0.080 WS/48, while Finley is posting 0.009 WS/48...

I'd say there is pretty compelling statistical evidence that Mason's more productive.

Win Shares that low are statistically negligible, IMO. Where did you find those #'s anyway? I calculate Finley at .07 WS/48 and Mason at .08, but I could be wrong.

Mason's high 3-pt % is front-loaded based on his hot shooting in November and December. If you look at their Jan/Feb splits, Mason is at .386 with Finley at .351... not exactly great percentages for either of them, and Mason has shot a much higher volume (106 vs. 74).

So here's something to consider... While Finley misses one three-pointer more than Mason for every 30 they take, Mason is bricking one more three pointer per game. That missed 3-pointer turns into a long rebound and a potential fast break for the other guys.

Again, regardless of whether Mason should start over Finley (and I would choose Mason too) there's really very little difference. Now, if we're talking about who closes the game, that's a different story altogether.

[pad300]

Win Shares that low are statistically negligible, IMO. Where did you find those #'s anyway? I calculate Finley at .07 WS/48 and Mason at .08, but I could be wrong.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/finlemi01.html
and
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/masonro01.html

take WS in advanced statistics, divide by MP, and multiply by 48. I should acknowledge at this point, that I screwed up with Finley's numbers, dividing by 11452 (for MP), rather than his actual 1452. Finley's WS/48 is 0.073



Mason's high 3-pt % is front-loaded based on his hot shooting in November and December. If you look at their Jan/Feb splits, Mason is at .386 with Finley at .351... not exactly great percentages for either of them, and Mason has shot a much higher volume (106 vs. 74).

So here's something to consider... While Finley misses one three-pointer more than Mason for every 30 they take, Mason is bricking one more three pointer per game. That missed 3-pointer turns into a long rebound and a potential fast break for the other guys.


Yeah, Mason had a really hot streak earlier this year. So did Fin, when he was shooting .429 from 3 in October, and .426 from 3 in December... Shooters are streaky, but that just means look at as large a sample as is valid (ie the totality of this season so far)...

As far as taking LOTS of 3 point shots, that's a good thing in my opinion. A 35% chance 3 pt shot is better than a 50% 2 pt shot. Our offence recognizes this and is built around it - either really high percentage close in shots, or 3's , but minimal jumpshot 2's. This does mean long rebounds, but that's why the system focuses on leaving only 1 player crashing the O-baords while everyone else gets back in transition situations... As a system, we try to give up minimal points in transition - consider that 35% of opposition shots against us are taken in the 1st 10 seconds of the opposition possession. Whereas for the celtics that # is 36%, Utah at 37% the lakers & Cleveland are at 39%, Golden State is at 40%...




Again, regardless of whether Mason should start over Finley (and I would choose Mason too) there's really very little difference. Now, if we're talking about who closes the game, that's a different story altogether.

Here I think you have missed the point. The debate isn't Mason vs. Finley for a starting spot. It's minutes for Finley vs. Bowen and Hairston. Especially because the current starting line-up (Mason, Parker, Finley, Bonner and TD) appears to have a bit of a balance problem. There are 5 players who can score, but only TD is a defensive stud. 4 scorers and a defender might balance things much better, especially if that defender is an effective enough shooter to spread the floor (does that describe Bowen by any chance?).

[mexicanjunior]

My reason for defending him is past contributions and his contributions this year.

He was the second best and third best scorer for long stretches this season and is probably enjoying his best season right now as a Spur.

That's why.

If you are judging his productivity on average ppg compared to the rest of the team, I guess he is meeting your standards. His poor shooting %, lack of defense, rebounding, and passing is why I think he shouldn't be getting the minutes he is pulling.

[Spurminator]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/finlemi01.html
and
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/masonro01.html

take WS in advanced statistics, divide by MP, and multiply by 48. I should acknowledge at this point, that I screwed up with Finley's numbers, dividing by 11452 (for MP), rather than his actual 1452. Finley's WS/48 is 0.073

Okay, then I was doing it right, I just didn't know if you have gotten the .0090 from somewhere else. I still have a hard time with WS as a cumulative total and not a per-game avg.


As far as taking LOTS of 3 point shots, that's a good thing in my opinion. A 35% chance 3 pt shot is better than a 50% 2 pt shot. Our offence recognizes this and is built around it - either really high percentage close in shots, or 3's , but minimal jumpshot 2's. This does mean long rebounds, but that's why the system focuses on leaving only 1 player crashing the O-baords while everyone else gets back in transition situations... As a system, we try to give up minimal points in transition - consider that 35% of opposition shots against us are taken in the 1st 10 seconds of the opposition possession. Whereas for the celtics that # is 36%, Utah at 37% the lakers & Cleveland are at 39%, Golden State is at 40%...

No argument here.



Here I think you have missed the point. The debate isn't Mason vs. Finley for a starting spot. It's minutes for Finley vs. Bowen and Hairston. Especially because the current starting line-up (Mason, Parker, Finley, Bonner and TD) appears to have a bit of a balance problem. There are 5 players who can score, but only TD is a defensive stud. 4 scorers and a defender might balance things much better, especially if that defender is an effective enough shooter to spread the floor (does that describe Bowen by any chance?).

The post I originally responded to referenced the starting lineup. I agree it's not important who starts. Still, I am not ready to give Hairston a lot of Finley's minutes, because I do not believe Finley represents a significant drop-off from Mason.

[loveforthegame]

Update the Finley watch.

Detroit: 27 min, 3-5, 2-3, 8pts, 3rbs

Wizards: 30 min, 7-13, 5-9, 19pts, 4rbs, 1as, 2tos, 3stls

[ManuTP9]

fins a beast

[loveforthegame]

The point of this thread was to watch how Finley did while Manu was sidelined with his injury. Small sample so far but he is responding.

[papashango]

I myself don't really understand the bashing Finley gets either. He's been solid this year. Its mind boggling how fans forget the clutch shots he hits for us. He's had some key steals and rebounds this year as well. I swear I think guys just look at the box score and determine how good a player is on this site. Fin played great the 1st time Ginobilli was out. He comes back tonight with 19. I don't care how many minutes he gets because he's one of the best shooters on this team. And without Ginobilli he's probably the best behind Mason who btw has struggled from the floor but fans don't seem to remember that. Fact is, this is the NBA. No one shoots 100% from the field. And for a guy who's what? The 3rd or 4th or 5th option on this team? A guy who can hit clutch shots? I consider myself lucky. You can't have 12 Ginobilli's on a team. Just be happy we have a guy who knows his role and excels at it. He's struggled some games this season. Just like every player in the league. The thing about his struggling is that he doesn't really offer much else statistically. Which is a concern but Fin's been more good than bad this season. If fans don't have anything to bitch about they panic.

[benefactor]

Ugh...Finley. Once again he does just enough good to warrant too much playing time when he is sucking.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Fin shows some gills on him. Here's to keep the veteran swimming on a high tide!

[NFGIII]

Really sucked against the Wizards!

Dump this loser now!

Can't hit a shot at all.

Can't the Spurs do any better?

[STEVEYCU]

YOU were all jizzing over Fin when he became a spur, now you wanna dump on him ???? If he were on the mavs still and getting bought out everyone on this site would be all over his nuts saying sign him for the rest of the season ... Give me a break all you guys want is something or someone to bitch about and the only way to make you happy is a new name on the back of the jersey .... Hairston is garbage , every shot he takes is sent into the fifth row and you guys think he should get more time over Fin ... Give me a break

[Borosai]

Some form of consistency is all that's needed. If he follows up these two games with five turds, then what's the point?

[papashango]

Some form of consistency is all that's needed. If he follows up these two games with five turds, then what's the point?

Shouldn't we atleast wait for him to give us those 5 turds first though?

I agree with you on consistancy but this season he's been more consistent than any other season he's been here. There was a point this season where he was giving us solid contribution every single night. I just think when you go down to the 4th or 5th scoring options on the team its impossible asking them to shoot 50% night in and out because they don't get the shots that guys like Parker and Ginobilli get. They don't come consistent. As you can see even great shooters like Bonner and Mason all have struggled shooting from the field this season.

[papashango]

Ugh...Finley. Once again he does just enough good to warrant too much playing time when he is sucking.

Just enough good? He was our second highest scorer. Fact is, he's good enough to warrant the defense to guard him. Say what you want but teams will let Bruce Bowen shoot. They'll let him beat them. Guys like Finley and Mason receive much more attention because they're the ones who pose the threat of really killing you from the perimeter if you leave them open.

[Spursfan092120]

I don't even think I have to mention what I think of this subject. Fin Dog is still a big part of this team. And last night just proved it more.

[Flux451]

Finely has been solid this season. Every player has good and bad games. Remember he isn't an all star anymore, only a role player. Get over it!

[Spursfan092120]

Finely has been solid this season. Every player has good and bad games. Remember he isn't an all star anymore, only a role player. Get over it!

Thank you...I've been trying to say that.

[MarHill]

Finely has been solid this season. Every player has good and bad games. Remember he isn't an all star anymore, only a role player. Get over it!

Thanks for your post!!

:toast

[HarlemHeat37]

the last game doesn't really change anything for me..

like I said before..he's good enough offensively, that he can come off the bench and be an offensive spark for our team, especially when we're in droughts..there's nothing wrong with that..Bowen should start..

[urunobili]

the last game doesn't really change anything for me..

like I said before..he's good enough offensively, that he can come off the bench and be an offensive spark for our team, especially when we're in droughts..there's nothing wrong with that..Bowen should start..

I am sure Pop will start Bruce in the playoffs... he can't be so blinded...

[loveforthegame]

Fin once again stepped up in the 3rd game since Ginobli has been out. 2 (Detroit, Dallas) have been against quality opponents while the other (Washington) was not.

Dallas: 38 min, 6-9, 4-4, 16pts, 5rbs, 1stl

[Spurs Brazil]

This is for Finley what Dikta thread is for Manu :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

Finley might be the streakiest player I've ever seen..

he'll have 15 games where he's completely useless, then he'll have 10 games where he's the best shooter in the NBA..hopefully he's in one of his blazing hot streaks when we're in May..

[MarHill]

finley might be the streakiest player i've ever seen..

He'll have 15 games where he's completely useless, then he'll have 10 games where he's the best shooter in the nba..hopefully he's in one of his blazing hot streaks when we're in may..


+1

[EricB]

:lol

The haters just HATE IT when Finley starts doing good again after a slump.

[sribb43]

Mavs should have offered Fin the full MLE instead of wasting it all on Diop and ending up with Matt Carroll....he would have been our best SG since well Mike Finley

[papashango]

Yea and I think it should be noted that Finley had no shots in the 1st half. That's 16 points of murdering the defense in the 2nd half. A huge key in us winning this game.

The Mavs haven't had a shooting guard like you sribb have stated since Finley. I thought cutting him was a dumb move. Especially since in the last year of his contract the Grizzlies parted with Pau Gasol for Kwame's contract. Mavs could've given them 21 million in cap relief.

I thought the Mavs had something with Marquis Daniels. They actually did and traded him for Austin Croshere who would later be cut. Who the hell is pulling trades and signing guys like Diop to 5.9 million a year?

[senorglory]

Maybe you fools should root for the Lakers or the Celtics, and leave us Spurs alone.

[senorglory]

Michael Finley - Season Averages since joining Spurs:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/senorglory/FinleySeasonAvg.gif

[Fabbs]

Props to Finley for having two good games in a row.

Eric Park this obviously means he should start every game and play 35+ minutes the remainder of the season.

[Obstructed_View]

If teams aren't going to be within ten feet of Fin, I'm all for letting him shoot wide open threes, especially if he's already hit one. Too bad the Spurs don't have enough timeouts to sub him out for a defender each time down the floor.

[papashango]

If teams aren't going to be within ten feet of Fin, I'm all for letting him shoot wide open threes, especially if he's already hit one. Too bad the Spurs don't have enough timeouts to sub him out for a defender each time down the floor.

What? His defense has been inconsistent but far from bad this season. What was wrong with his defense these past 2 games?

[Obstructed_View]

What? His defense has been inconsistent but far from bad this season. What was wrong with his defense these past 2 games?

Actually, he was part of a group that played really good defense against Dallas for stretches last night. That said, all you need to know about what's wrong with his defense is in your suggestion that his playing decent for two games is an accomplishment. Finley is grateful that Udoka's around so there's someone that's a worse defender than he is on the squad. When you need a guy to go 4-4 from the three point line to give some value to the team, he's not going to be valuable very often.

[papashango]

Actually, he was part of a group that played really good defense against Dallas for stretches last night. That said, all you need to know about what's wrong with his defense is in your suggestion that his playing decent for two games is an accomplishment. Finley is grateful that Udoka's around so there's someone that's a worse defender than he is on the squad. When you need a guy to go 4-4 from the three point line to give some value to the team, he's not going to be valuable very often.

Well I bring up these two games because the defense has been solid. Not just decent but actually solid. I thought he was damn good against Josh Howard last night. I'll say this though when Fin's shot isn't falling it seems his defense is just as bad as his shot. But when the shot is falling then he's doing everything else well. He's had some solid defensive outings this season. More good than bad. Not as consistent as i'd like but then again I don't expect much defense from him to begin with.

[Obstructed_View]

Well I bring up these two games because the defense has been solid. Not just decent but actually solid. I thought he was damn good against Josh Howard last night. I'll say this though when Fin's shot isn't falling it seems his defense is just as bad as his shot. But when the shot is falling then he's doing everything else well. He's had some solid defensive outings this season. More good than bad. Not as consistent as i'd like but then again I don't expect much defense from him to begin with.

Fin always plays hard defense against Dallas, for obvious reasons. He doesn't like Howard or Stackhouse. For that reason, you can almost throw it out because he's not likely to give that kind of effort every game. I expect him to play defense, and I'm not sure why the coaching staff doesn't seem to. Every other member of the team that makes the kind of mistakes he makes gets yelled at or benched.

[Josepatches_]

Finley was a great player.Now he's enough good for the Spurs.There is not a lot of SG who can average 10ppg if they only can touch the ball to take JS.If he could shoot the same than Manu or Parker he could average 15ppg easily.
43% is a good FG% if you only take JS and not easy shots.
40% from 3 last 4 years? It's good too.These are the numbers of a good shooter.
How many points has to score to be enough good for you? He's not as good as defense because he's not younger anymore.


Finley and Mason are the players we need.There is no problem with him.Pop isn't so dumb.He knows the game better than us.

[loveforthegame]

Finley is streaky so we know he'll go on a tear then go back to slumping at some point. We can only hope that he's on a tear during the playoffs.

Right now I'm thankful he's stepping up while Ginboli is out. Especially considering that he's not even a main option on offense. He's like 4th or 5th this year. It's not like he's jacking up 20 shots like he had when he was with Dallas.

If he can provide anywhere from 8-12 points I'm sure the Spurs will be happy. It's not as if they're looking for 20 points a night and he's not delivering.

[crc21209]

I am man enough to admit that I was one of the Finley bashers in here when he was on his slump, but I should've known better since he's been here with the Spurs that, yes he goes on hot streaks, but he also goes on shooting slumps. And the last 2 games he has really stepped it up, I'm sorry Fin, I should have never bashed you. lol.

[loveforthegame]

Another solid outing for Finley.

Portland: 37 min, 6-11, 1-3, 13pts, 6rbs, 1to

4 game totals:

33 min, 53% fg, 63% 3pt, 14 ppg, 4.5 rpg

[superbigtime]

Mavs should have offered Fin the full MLE instead of wasting it all on Diop and ending up with Matt Carroll....he would have been our best SG since well Mike Finley

Yeah well, your team's owner is a meddling, childish, egocentric fucktard.

[Borosai]

He must have read this thread.

[HarlemHeat37]

definitely..I'm taking the credit for this current streak..

[outmap]

4 straight games now.
I'm just wondering why when Fin is on, Mase is off and vice versa.

[EricB]

4 straight games now.
I'm just wondering why when Fin is on, Mase is off and vice versa.


It's basketball.

It happens.

[Obstructed_View]

4 straight games now.
I'm just wondering why when Fin is on, Mase is off and vice versa.

Just be glad their cycles don't synchronize like women who live together.

[Red Hawk #21]

Fictional Scenario
3 Seconds left...Spurs 90 Suns 92
Commentator A: "Finley is gunna inbound to Parker, let's see if they can get a quick shot off. Finley hands it to Parker, Parker passes back to Finley!"
Commentator B: "Finley for the win... Bam"!
Commentator A: "Michael Finley has done it again!"
Arena goes crazy, Final Score: Spurs 93 Suns 92

[Spurminator]

Fictional Scenario
3 Seconds left...Spurs 90 Suns 92
Commentator A: "Finley is gunna inbound to Parker, let's see if they can get a quick shot off. Finley hands it to Parker, Parker passes back to Finley!"
Commentator B: "Finley for the win... Bam"!
Commentator A: "Michael Finley has done it again!"
Arena goes crazy, Final Score: Spurs 93 Suns 92


Real scenario:

MdO3CfKW40I

[loveforthegame]

It was a loss but I thought Finley played pretty hard. Not likely to win a game when he's tied as your leading scorer and leading rebounder. I thought he did a decent job on Lebron in stretches but it's just no contest.

Cleveland: 28 min, 5-9, 1-2, 11 pts, 7 rbs, 1 as, 3 blks

[Fabbs]

Solid game by Fins vs Dallas and he certainly warranted all 37 minutes.
2-8 (0-3 treys) 4 boards zero offensive and some real lock down D on Josh Howard.

Eric Park?

[loveforthegame]

Detroit: 27 min, 3-5, 2-3, 8pts, 3rbs

Wizards: 30 min, 7-13, 5-9, 19pts, 4rbs, 1as, 2tos, 3stls

Dallas: 38 min, 6-9, 4-4, 16pts, 5rbs, 1stl

Portland: 37 min, 6-11, 1-3, 13pts, 6rbs, 1to

Cleveland: 28 min, 5-9, 1-2, 11 pts, 7 rbs, 1 as, 3 blks

Portland: 15 min, 0-1, 1as

Clippers: 27 min, 5-11, 4-7, 14pts, 2rbs, 1to

Dallas: 37 min, 2-8, 0-3, 1-2, 5pts, 4rbs, 2as, 1stl


So Finley has had 2 bad games out of 8 since Ginobli's been sidelined. While I don't think he should have played as many minutes last night I don't think he was as bad as some make it. If a few more shots had fallen it probably wouldn't even be discussed here.

I think it's safe to say that Finley has more than stepped up while Ginobli's been out but I guess some want to make it sound like he hasn't.

[loveforthegame]

I'm assuming Finley is done for the night. Another solid outing.

Wizards: 15 min, 5-9, 2-5, 12 pts, 3 rbs, 3 as, 1 stl

[loveforthegame]

Fin was clutch in the 4th quarter. Solid game overall.

Phoenix: 30 min, 4-7, 2-3, 1-2, 11 pts, 3 rbs, 2 as, 2 to

[Spurs Brazil]

Big game today. Made some great shots in the 4th

[Spursmania]

Fin's on a role...just in time.

[coyotes_geek]

I think he's only had one stinker game since this thread got started.

[Borosai]

Finley lurks. Cannot compliment. Must keep him sharp.

Yeah, he's had a good run, but he needs to do it until the Spurs are hoisting another Larry O.

[HarlemHeat37]

Apparently all it took for Finley to go on a blazing hot streak was a thread dedicated to watching his production..I take full credit..

[loveforthegame]

Last two games for Finley have been solid. His best game has probably been tonight. Too bad it was a loss. I don't think anyone can question whether he has stepped up in Manu's absence.

Charlotte: 29 mins, 4-6, 2-4, 10 pts, 2 rbs, 2 as, 1 to

Lakers: 39 mins, 10-17, 5-6, 25 pts, 3 rbs, 1 to, 1 stl

[NRHector]

Apparently all it took for Finley to go on a blazing hot streak was a thread dedicated to watching his production..I take full credit..well hell, can you start another one for Duncan, Parker , Ginobili, Bonner, Thomas, Oberto, and Mason?

[Fabbs]

The perfomance against the Lakers.
10-17 with 5-6 of those being on treys for a 70% plus f.g.a.? Plus he at least tried on defense and actually went up in traffic and got a rebound?

This is what an obscene 20+ million a year player, one who has made more money then Tony Parker and Manu GNob combined should play like.

Pry Eric Park off Fins nutts for a moment and i will get in and give props for this game!

[crc21209]

Michael Fucking Finley showed last night that he still has something left and in a big game, he will step up. I think he wants to go out with one more ring...he's not gonna go out without a fight.

[raspsa]

I was finally able to watch a replay of the game and it was worth watching to see Finley have a terrific game.. don't know what he had for breakfast but he was really motivated.

[EricB]

The perfomance against the Lakers.
10-17 with 5-6 of those being on treys for a 70% plus f.g.a.? Plus he at least tried on defense and actually went up in traffic and got a rebound?

This is what an obscene 20+ million a year player, one who has made more money then Tony Parker and Manu GNob combined should play like.

Pry Eric Park off Fins nutts for a moment and i will get in and give props for this game!


I'm not on his nuts at all.

I just don't think he's the worst player in the history of the world like you fuckasses think.

[loveforthegame]

Finley with another solid game. Even his 3rd quarter shooting woes was capped off with a half court buzzer beater.

Houston: 37 mins, 6-14, 5-7, 17 pts, 4 rbs, 1 to, 1 stl, 1 blk

[tomtom]

its so easy to hate and love fin

[papashango]

its so easy to hate and love fin

It shouldn't be. Not this season anyway. He's been more consistent this season then he has any other year as a Spur. People just like to bitch and moan about anything. Fin's been beasting in this run since Ginobilli went out.

[Borosai]

Dammit man! Finley is wasting all his good games in March. When the playoffs come around, he's gonna be dry.

[papashango]

Dammit man! Finley is wasting all his good games in March. When the playoffs come around, he's gonna be dry.

If Fin wasn't as hot as he was today I don't even think we win this game. Being hot in March has its benefits when it comes to securing the 2nd seed.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Finley with another solid game.


loveforthegame...

I hope you guys can get back into the playoff hunt next season. Your team year before last that knocked the high-flying Mavs out of the playoffs looked very promising. They were by far the most entertaining team in the NBA. Nellie knows offense as well as anyone...if he'd ever get a defensive minded assistant coach that could get the same results with the 'D' as teams like the Spurs, Pistons, Lakers & Celtics the Warriors would be hell on wheels!

Good luck next year!

[senorglory]

5 of 7 three pointers for Finley tonight. Good show.

[papashango]

loveforthegame...

I hope you guys can get back into the playoff hunt next season. Your team year before last that knocked the high-flying Mavs out of the playoffs looked very promising. They were by far the most entertaining team in the NBA. Nellie knows offense as well as anyone...if he'd ever get a defensive minded assistant coach that could get the same results with the 'D' as teams like the Spurs, Pistons, Lakers & Celtics the Warriors would be hell on wheels!

Good luck next year!

I think they're best bet is to just build around Monta, Randolph, Biedrin's, Morrow and SJAX and draft in the lottery this year and see where they go from there. Injuries have killed them this year. A healthy Warriors team is competing for a playoff spot.

[SouthTexasRancher]

I think they're best bet is to just build around Monta, Randolph, Biedrin's, Morrow and SJAX and draft in the lottery this year and see where they go from there. Injuries have killed them this year. A healthy Warriors team is competing for a playoff spot.


I agree. Too bad Baron Davis decided $$$$$ was the most important thing in his life. They had a good thing going.

[loveforthegame]

loveforthegame...

I hope you guys can get back into the playoff hunt next season. Your team year before last that knocked the high-flying Mavs out of the playoffs looked very promising. They were by far the most entertaining team in the NBA. Nellie knows offense as well as anyone...if he'd ever get a defensive minded assistant coach that could get the same results with the 'D' as teams like the Spurs, Pistons, Lakers & Celtics the Warriors would be hell on wheels!

Good luck next year!

Thanks. Inuries have killed us this season. Hopefully one more draft and a few tweaks this summer and they'll be ready to go again next season.

[ohmwrecker]

Finley played great tonight. He's not going to play like that every night, but he shouldn't be expected to. He's streaky, but most NBA SGs aren't Ray Allen or Michael Redd. Finley really wouldn't be a starter on most other teams, but he has to on the Spurs because Pop likes Manu off the bench.
Which I really don't understand. If you can't be adventurous enough to rotate your starters based on match ups, then you should just start your five best players in position.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Thanks. Inuries have killed us this season. Hopefully one more draft and a few tweaks this summer and they'll be ready to go again next season.

Best of luck to your Warriors.

Mssg. to Nellie: Start concentrating on Defense and the trophy will be within reach!

[NewJerSpur]

Finley had me convinced he was of no use to this team last season, but the way he's chipped in when our "big chips were down" is very commendable. I'll happily eat crow with the results he's producing. Damn good win tonight.

[Behrooz24]

wjyMdpFsqnk
:toast

[papashango]

Finley played great tonight. He's not going to play like that every night, but he shouldn't be expected to. He's streaky, but most NBA SGs aren't Ray Allen or Michael Redd. Finley really wouldn't be a starter on most other teams, but he has to on the Spurs because Pop likes Manu off the bench.
Which I really don't understand. If you can't be adventurous enough to rotate your starters based on match ups, then you should just start your five best players in position.

I disagree. I think Fin is a legit starter in this league especially at the 3 spot. Especially in these stretch of games. He's shown he's still a legit threat in this league. I don't even look at him as starting ahead of Manu. I look at Roger Mason starting ahead of Ginobilli.

[benefactor]

...and tonight reveals the problem with Finley having a couple of good games. Pop will stay with him all the way to the grave. Hopefully this is not a foreshadowing of our playoff future.

[Brazil]

I have no problem to give min to Fin but come on 39 min when he shoots 3-10 ???

[Spurs Brazil]

The whole team was bad tonight. We can't blame Finley

[benefactor]

The whole team was bad tonight. We can't blame Finley
I'm not really blaming him for the loss. It's more about him having limitations and Pop not realizing it. Pop will stick with him not matter how it's going because it seems like in his mind Finley is always playing like he did against the Lakers.

[KenGee21]

The whole team was bad tonight. We can't blame Finley

Yes we can, Finley sucks....basically every other game.:lol

[Spurs Brazil]

I'm not really blaming him for the loss. It's more about him having limitations and Pop not realizing it. Pop will stick with him not matter how it's going because it seems like in his mind Finley is always playing like he did against the Lakers.

I agree 39 minutes is too much. Finley is 37, and we're in the 1st of a back to back. No need to play that many minutes.
Maybe Ime was so terrible that Pop decided to keep Finley that many minutes
What make me really sad is that seems that Pop doesn't trust Bruce anymore :depressed. Only 4 minutes, while Finley got 39 and Ime 19

[benefactor]

...and tonight reveals the problem with Finley having a couple of good games. Pop will stay with him all the way to the grave. Hopefully this is not a foreshadowing of our playoff future.
God help us...

[HarlemHeat37]

so is Finley back in one of his patented slumps?..

we better hope he's in one of his shooting zones going into the playoffs..because we all know Pop will be playing him heavily no matter what..

[loveforthegame]

I haven't had time to update this until now. Not a good stretch for Finley offensively since the last meeting against Houston.

Oklahoma City: 39 mins, 3-10, 1-4, 7 pts, 4 rbs, 2 as, 1 stl

Minnesota: 32 mins, 3-9, 1-2, 2-2, 9 pts, 5rbs, 1 as

Boston: 29 mins, 2-9, 2-7, 1-3, 7 pts, 2 rbs, 2 as

Houston: 25 mins, 0-1, 0 pts, 4 rbs, 1 stl, 1 to

[SpursFan0728]

Like I always say, Finley consistently shows up once or twice every 5 games.

[loveforthegame]

If you look back since Manu's been out Finley has peformed consistently well except for these last 4 games. Let's not make it sound like he's only had 2 good games in the last month.

[benefactor]

If you look back since Manu's been out Finley has peformed consistently well except for these last 4 games. Let's not make it sound like he's only had 2 good games in the last month.
That is really not the point. The point is that this game was important from a standings standpoint and Pop went back to Finley even though he was ineffective.

HarlemHeat is right. If Finley is not in one of his shooting zones in the playoffs we don't have much of a chance...because Pop is showing no sign of wavering in his pointless commitment to him.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Fin has been much better than anyone could have predicted in the summer. A lot of people, me included, thought we should have kept Barry and let Fin go. However, we've been proven wrong and I'm glad to admit it.

Now, Fin does have a lot of flaws - he's either hot or cold, very inconsistent, etc. but that's who he's been, it's not unexpected. So I believe the bashing he gets if quite unfair. It's true that Pop has played him more than he probably should have, especially in games in which he clearly shows he's cold, but I'd expect this to change when Manu comes back and with Bowen, hopefully, start getting more minutes during the playoffs.

That said, Fin's done good and he doesn't deserve all the hate.

[benefactor]

Fin has been much better than anyone could have predicted in the summer. A lot of people, me included, thought we should have kept Barry and let Fin go. However, we've been proven wrong and I'm glad to admit it.

Now, Fin does have a lot of flaws - he's either hot or cold, very inconsistent, etc. but that's who he's been, it's not unexpected. So I believe the bashing he gets if quite unfair. It's true that Pop has played him more than he probably should have, especially in games in which he clearly shows he's cold, but I'd expect this to change when Manu comes back and with Bowen, hopefully, start getting more minutes during the playoffs.

That said, Fin's done good and he doesn't deserve all the hate.
So far nothing indicates that this is true...and I think Manu will probably get more of Mason's minutes and not Finley's.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So far nothing indicates that this is true...and I think Manu will probably get more of Mason's minutes and not Finley's.

You might be right, we'll see.

I am by no means advocating for the idea of playing Fin 30+ mins, but the abuse he gets here is quite excessive and undeserved. And while he's no all-star, you'd be hard pressed to find other swingmen with contracts similar to his, who have had a better season.

[benefactor]

You might be right, we'll see.

I am by no means advocating for the idea of playing Fin 30+ mins, but the abuse he gets here is quite excessive and undeserved. And while he's no all-star, you'd be hard pressed to find other swingmen with contracts similar to his, who have had a better season.
He would probably take a lot less heat if Pop would use a little more objectivity regarding him. One could easily make the case that Pop is just as much to blame.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Totally agree with you Benefactor. I do expect Finley's minutes in the playoffs to be in the range of 20-25 max, save for unexpected circumstances.

[Muser]

If we want to win Finley's minuted need to be around 20-25 minutes a game, unless he's really hot.

[loveforthegame]

He would probably take a lot less heat if Pop would use a little more objectivity regarding him. One could easily make the case that Pop is just as much to blame.

I blame Pop because he makes the decisions. Right or wrong he trusts Finley will come out of his slumps better than we do here.

I think Udoka will take some of Finley's minutes not Mason's. Pop seems set on using him as the backup pg.

[Agloco]

Udoka/Manu/Bowen FTW. Mason backup SG

Bury Finley like the fossil he is.

[loveforthegame]

Warriors: 27 mins, 2-6, 1-3, 5 pts, 1 rb, 1stl

Hawks: 38 mins, 5-12, 3-5, 13 pts, 6 rbs, 1 as, 2 stls


Nice to see Finley bounce back after the dismal performance against the Warriors. I really like the rebounds and his 2 steals were timely.

[benefactor]

I posted this in another thread but it fits better here. Finley is averaging 31 MPG over the last 15 games. Last night seems to indicate that this is probably not going to change.

On to next year...

[Borosai]

He has played relatively well lately so I can't complain, but my god man, sometimes it's just too much. If he's sucking it up, Pop needs to sit him down and play to win.

[ElNono]

He has played relatively well lately so I can't complain, but my god man, sometimes it's just too much. If he's sucking it up, Pop needs to sit him down and play to win.

Are you just looking at one end of the floor?

[loveforthegame]

I think he's played better than any of us expected. He's trying on defense but some matchups (Durant, Johnson to name a couple) he will get killed but Pop continues to assign him to that player. I blame Pop for that.

[crc21209]

I'm ok with Fin playing over Udoka, but Udoka over Bowen? :td

[loveforthegame]

Udoka very well might be a worst defender than Finley. Especially on quicker players. He's good at guarding the stronger ones like Artest though.

I defintely agree that Bowen should be getting Udoka's minutes if not some of Finley's.

[HarlemHeat37]

Finley shouldn't be playing more than 20 MPG..it's actually ridiculous..I'm not even hating on Finley, it's not his fault..he's 36 years old, why the fuck would he be playing so much..anything more than 20 MPG is too much for a player his age..

he should be an offensive spark..

[Creation88]

Pop needs to get his head outta Finley's ass.

[Texas_Ranger]

If Finley will play over 30 min in the playoffs I'll want to kill Pop!

[benefactor]

Finley defending Lebron today....

http://www.ranchocalypso.com/blog7/Matador2sm.JPG

[HarlemHeat37]

I can't even blame Finley at all..

Lebron is EASILY the best player in the NBA..an old man that was never known for his D in any way, shouldn't be guarding him..

[benefactor]

I can't even blame Finley at all..

Lebron is EASILY the best player in the NBA..an old man that was never known for his D in any way, shouldn't be guarding him..
Yeah I know. I'm just trying to block out the certainty of our future by entertaining myself.

:lol...................:depressed

[Borosai]

It's not Finley's fault he's being asked to do something he can't. Pop is doing that a lot lately.

[loveforthegame]

I blame Pop too. Finley shouldn't be guarding a lot of these guys for long stretches but Pop continues to put him in those situations.

I give Finley credit for trying but he's obviously outmatched.