what do we do about opposing PGs?

[HarlemHeat37]

in the last 3 games..

Ukic had a career high and dominated us with his penetration..Nate Robinson killed us in the last game..and Iverson, while he was played well by Bruce and dominated by Hill, still managed to have a big game against us..

so what's going on here? how do we adjust defensively? what's been the problem?..

we played great defense all game, but still managed to get beat by the opposing team's PG..so it might be a cause for concern here..

[coyotes_geek]

Tony is getting abused defensively these days. But since we need Tony's offense we just have to live with it. There's really nothing we can do except cross our fingers and hope Tony starts defending better.

*edit: well, almost nothing. During this stretch that Manu is out playing HIll and Tony at the same time for stretches is an option, but only if there's someone Tony can be switched to.

[Spursfan092120]

I just hope Tony's not hurting and hiding it. This is an unexpected defensive problem he's been having.

[mexicanjunior]

Hope we can sign someone that can rotate and help defend the rim when Tony is beaten off the dribble...

[George.W.Bush]

You have to give some for a win. We stopped in the interior forces with a planification of holding down the fort, while AI and his new 'doo took over.

[Holt's Cat]

Hard to defend a screen roll when you only have one shotblocker and you're facing a team with bigs that can knock it down from outside.

[Holt's Cat]

Not to mention that 48 year old Allen Iverson is still damn good.

[Shastafarian]

Hard to defend a screen roll when you only have one shotblocker and you're facing a team with bigs that can knock it down from outside.

If only they had traded for Vince Carter...

[Solid D]

True about Tony, but the help defense has been pretty sorry also. Robinson killed the Spurs, but especially on the 5-out iso. It's a shame George Hill hasn't been more consistent. He could have really helped with better play in the Toronto and NY games.

[ducks]

tony drove ai to hill on the one drive so hill could block ai

[Shastafarian]

tony drove ai to hill on the one drive so hill could block ai

Good for him. Doesn't change the fact he's been getting lit up.

[Chomag]

True about Tony, but the help defense has been pretty sorry also. Robinson killed the Spurs, but especially on the 5-out iso. It's a shame George Hill hasn't been more consistent. He could have really helped with better play in the Toronto and NY games.

thiing is though just like tonight as soon as you see Hill start to heat up and get into thew flow of the game he gets pulled. He needs a bit more consistant minutes so he can be more consistant.

[coyotes_geek]

When you get right down to it Tony's defensive limitations are that his only defensive advantage is his quickness. He doesn't have great defensive instincts, he doesn't have a size advantage, he doesn't have those George Hill freakish long arms. On most nights he's able to use his quickness to compensate. But if he's facing someone who's just as quick he's got problems. See AI and Nate. Ukic isn't as quick as those two, but he's still pretty quick. Plus he's 6-5 with long arms.

[Agloco]

I just hope Tony's not hurting and hiding it. This is an unexpected defensive problem he's been having.

Cut the guy some slack. He's selling a million dollar home and moving into one worth about twice as much.

Obviously his money is on his mind. :hat

[Holt's Cat]

If only they had traded for Vince Carter...

...then the Spurs would've put the W away early.

[Shastafarian]

Hard to defend a screen roll when you only have one shotblocker and you're facing a team with bigs that can knock it down from outside.

[Holt's Cat]

Lemme guess, bench Tony and start future HOFer George Hill?

[Holt's Cat]

Yes, one. Ah, DRob, how we miss thee.

[Shastafarian]

Lemme guess, bench Tony and start future HOFer George Hill?

Nope. I wish that Camby trade had gone down. *GASP* Even though George Hill was included!!!

[Shastafarian]

Yes, one. Ah, DRob, how we miss thee.

You still don't get it. Funny.

[Agloco]

Nope. I wish that Camby trade had gone down. *GASP* Even though George Hill was included!!!

Amen brother......

[coyotes_geek]

I agree, but I think Hill needs to come in more aggresive, he really just lays back and plays D, he needs to start going to the hole more cause he is getting like 14mpg.

Agree. I wish Hill would realize it's okay for him to call his own number occasionally, especially when being guarded by guys he can get past.

[Solid D]

Hill did great tonight, at both ends, but my point was he didn't do well in Toroto nor in NY. He needs consistency.

Parker has been very soft on D lately, though.

[Shastafarian]

Agree. I wish Hill would realize it's okay for him to call his own number occasionally, especially when being guarded by guys he can get past.

I noticed he was having trouble getting by the guy that was guarding him. Not sure if he was just hesitant or if he doesn't have that quickness Tony and other guys have.

[K-State Spur]

Tony has gone through stretches like this before.

He's always been a much better playoff defender than regular season defender.

[ducks]

maybe pop is telling tp to let up on the d up a little and save it for the playoffs

[HarlemHeat37]

Hill isn't as quick as a lot of other PGs, but his wingspan and athleticism allows him to get his shot over pretty much any other PG..so he definitely needs to be more aggressive..

[weebo]

maybe pop is telling tp to let up on the d up a little and save it for the playoffs

bullshit. parker is just sandbagging it on D...that mofo is a two time all star and doesn't think he needs to D up anymore.

[HarlemHeat37]

the most annoying part is that he called himself a top 3 PG defender in that French interview..that's the type of shit that bothers me..if you're going to come out and run your mouth, back it up..

[ploto]

Put Bowen on them.

[mystargtr34]

tony drove ai to hill on the one drive so hill could block ai

So now Tony is funneling penetrators into George Hill :lol.

You outdid urself ducks.

Lmao

[coachmac87]

We have NOBODY who can defend on the periemeter other than Bowen. Parker is good sometimes but not really in the regular season. He is ALOT better in the playoffs because he takes each matchup personally and wants to out shine the opposing Pg.

Mason and Tony have a VERY hard times fighting through screens....And the NBA is all about Pick and Roll, so they better start working on that or it could cause problems down the road.

I also notice is that we allow most PG 'sto take most of the shots instead of getting his other teammates involved.

[spursfan09]

I agree his defense has been lacking.

But the Spurs as a whole haven't been doing very well defensively.

[GSH]

The Spurs aren't playing team defense, but I don't think TP's matchups are the problem. In fact, if you look at the numbers, I don't think they have been as bad as you remember. It's easy to let a few plays stand out in your mind, but that doesn't tell the real story.

Ukic scored 10 of his 22 points with Tony on the bench. He also hit two 3-pointers while Tony was in the game. That leaves at most 3 times that he burned Tony for baskets. (And where was the help defense?) And even with Ukic scoring 22, the Spurs held Toronto to 91 points. They would have been fine if Bonner, Mason, and Finley had not gone a combined 5-18 from the floor, with no trips to the FT line.

Nate Robinson can be a tough cover. He dropped 33 on the Lakers earlier this season. (On the second night of a B2B, on the road.) He scored 10 of his 33 points with Tony on the bench. He also pulled down more rebounds (10) than any Spur player not named Duncan. You can't lay all that on Tony. He was jacked up after his All-Star appearance, and he brought more energy than all the Spurs players combined.

The game before that, Devin Harris scored 21 points in 40+ minutes - 11 of them with Parker on the Bench.

The game before that, Rajon Rondo scored 6 points in 39 minutes.

Forget Golden State. Nobody knows who plays what position on a Don Nelson team.

Before that was New Orleans. Chris Paul had 16 points in the first 33 minutes. Parker left the game, and 5.5 minutes later Paul had 32 points. Paul finished with 38 points, but you can't blame that on Parker either.

Iverson? In case you hadn't noticed, Iverson is kinda good. Not many players in the league are going to have much success against AI without some help. And the help was definitely lacking on a number of those plays tonight. But even though Iverson got his points, the Spurs held the Pistons to just 79 points in the game. I think Pop would take that trade-off every night. And do you think that may have been part of the plan? Don't put him on the line, and make the other guys beat us?

The Spurs have played against some good PG's recently. But with the exception of Iverson, you can't say that Tony has been victimized. The numbers just don't back that up.

[MI21]

2007 Playoff run Tony was a beast defensively against a younger Iverson who had a complete green light. He was fantastic defender that whole playoff run.

I have faith that by the playoffs he will be fine.

[Josepatches_]

If would be a big problem if we have to change our defense to stop Farmar or Fisher along with Kobe,Pau or Odom.If Parker can't guard the PG then it's better to bench him.

[Slippy]

Looks like TP is trying , he just getting beat constantly. IF he staying in front of his guy he usually giving too much room for a jumper , if he up on his guy they get past too easily. It's been happening all season. Carrying too much burden on offense would be a good reason why he coasting on D.

It sure is nice knowing the Spurs still got George Hill around.

[EricB]

If would be a big problem if we have to change our defense to stop Farmar or Fisher along with Kobe,Pau or Odom.If Parker can't guard the PG then it's better to bench him.


Good god, STFU.

[ducks]

funny tp d gets called out
but booner and finley's d never gets called out

[Brazil]

The Spurs aren't playing team defense, but I don't think TP's matchups are the problem. In fact, if you look at the numbers, I don't think they have been as bad as you remember. It's easy to let a few plays stand out in your mind, but that doesn't tell the real story.

Ukic scored 10 of his 22 points with Tony on the bench. He also hit two 3-pointers while Tony was in the game. That leaves at most 3 times that he burned Tony for baskets. (And where was the help defense?) And even with Ukic scoring 22, the Spurs held Toronto to 91 points. They would have been fine if Bonner, Mason, and Finley had not gone a combined 5-18 from the floor, with no trips to the FT line.

Nate Robinson can be a tough cover. He dropped 33 on the Lakers earlier this season. (On the second night of a B2B, on the road.) He scored 10 of his 33 points with Tony on the bench. He also pulled down more rebounds (10) than any Spur player not named Duncan. You can't lay all that on Tony. He was jacked up after his All-Star appearance, and he brought more energy than all the Spurs players combined.

The game before that, Devin Harris scored 21 points in 40+ minutes - 11 of them with Parker on the Bench.

The game before that, Rajon Rondo scored 6 points in 39 minutes.

Forget Golden State. Nobody knows who plays what position on a Don Nelson team.

Before that was New Orleans. Chris Paul had 16 points in the first 33 minutes. Parker left the game, and 5.5 minutes later Paul had 32 points. Paul finished with 38 points, but you can't blame that on Parker either.

Iverson? In case you hadn't noticed, Iverson is kinda good. Not many players in the league are going to have much success against AI without some help. And the help was definitely lacking on a number of those plays tonight. But even though Iverson got his points, the Spurs held the Pistons to just 79 points in the game. I think Pop would take that trade-off every night. And do you think that may have been part of the plan? Don't put him on the line, and make the other guys beat us?

The Spurs have played against some good PG's recently. But with the exception of Iverson, you can't say that Tony has been victimized. The numbers just don't back that up.


Solid post, the most amazing for me was the bashing of TP after the NO game, CP3 scored half of his points with TP on the bench but doesn't matter it is like speaking to a wall.

[ElNono]

funny tp d gets called out
but booner and finley's d never gets called out

Stop being a vagina. We have other threads to discuss that actually.

[ElNono]

Ukic scored 10 of his 22 points with Tony on the bench. He also hit two 3-pointers while Tony was in the game. That leaves at most 3 times that he burned Tony for baskets. (And where was the help defense?) And even with Ukic scoring 22, the Spurs held Toronto to 91 points. They would have been fine if Bonner, Mason, and Finley had not gone a combined 5-18 from the floor, with no trips to the FT line.

What really stood out for me on that game is that we're up 3 with barely seconds to go, and Ukic has the ball in the corner. Tony is in front of him, and what does he do? He backs up and dares him to shoot the trey!. Not only that, he didn't even put a hand up. Just turned around and saw the ball swishing in. This are the kind of mental farts that I'm upset with Tony about. There are really good PGs out there, and he'll get burn by some of them sooner or later. Nothing wrong with that. But this is basic basketball stuff, and it hurts to see an experienced guy like him still making those kind of mistakes that end up costing games.
That said, I think he'll get better. After a good amount of years, it's hard to get up for every one of the 82 games of the season. This is just pure reality. And I know he can defend better... So I'm hoping that in due time he'll turn up the intensity.

[GSH]

What really stood out for me on that game is that we're up 3 with barely seconds to go, and Ukic has the ball in the corner. Tony is in front of him, and what does he do? He backs up and dares him to shoot the trey!. Not only that, he didn't even put a hand up. Just turned around and saw the ball swishing in.


That would be a great story, if not for the fact that the Spurs were up by 4 points, not 3. So fouling a 3-point shooter would have been an absolute disaster.

And there was about 50 seconds left when Ukic took that shot, not "barely seconds". With 50 ticks, even if Ukic makes that shot the Spurs should have a 2-for-1 opportunity, with a 1-point lead. As it turned out, he did make it. And the Spurs did have a 2-for-1 opportunity. They just didn't execute on two consecutive possessions.

Tony probably should have closed out better on that particular shot. But if he had put Ukic on the line for 3 shots... or worse, given up a 4-point play... Pop would have had his ass.

Ukic popped a 3 while Tony was on him. But don't re-arrange the facts to make your point. Tony gave up 12 points to Ukic in the entire game - two 3-pointers and two deuces. That's not exactly the same thing as getting dominated. And several of the shots Ukic made were the result of poor defensive rotations, not just Tony's inability to lock up individually. There was plenty of blame to go around.

[nkdlunch]

Rocco Ukic broke us

[nkdlunch]

I agree it is the team defense that is lacking. TP is no stopper so he needs help. But so do most PGs in the NBA. Team D needs to improve if we wanna have any chances

[ElNono]

That would be a great story, if not for the fact that the Spurs were up by 4 points, not 3. So fouling a 3-point shooter would have been an absolute disaster.

And there was about 50 seconds left when Ukic took that shot, not "barely seconds". With 50 ticks, even if Ukic makes that shot the Spurs should have a 2-for-1 opportunity, with a 1-point lead. As it turned out, he did make it. And the Spurs did have a 2-for-1 opportunity. They just didn't execute on two consecutive possessions.

Tony probably should have closed out better on that particular shot. But if he had put Ukic on the line for 3 shots... or worse, given up a 4-point play... Pop would have had his ass.

Ukic popped a 3 while Tony was on him. But don't re-arrange the facts to make your point. Tony gave up 12 points to Ukic in the entire game - two 3-pointers and two deuces. That's not exactly the same thing as getting dominated. And several of the shots Ukic made were the result of poor defensive rotations, not just Tony's inability to lock up individually. There was plenty of blame to go around.

It doesn't matter. The proper defensive play is to be on his grill and make him drive baseline. You don't foul him, you make him drive. If he still wants to put up a contested shot, you raise your arm up and you let him. You don't slack like that on defense with seconds to go in the game. This is exactly what we've been doing poorly as a team. It hasn't been just Tony, it's been a bunch of guys with mental breakdowns like that.

[GSH]

It doesn't matter. The proper defensive play is to be on his grill and make him drive baseline. You don't foul him, you make him drive. If he still wants to put up a contested shot, you raise your arm up and you let him. You don't slack like that on defense with seconds to go in the game. This is exactly what we've been doing poorly as a team. It hasn't been just Tony, it's been a bunch of guys with mental breakdowns like that.

When you put it like that, I agree 100%.

As far as that shot, I don't remember how Ukic got separation so I don't know if he had a chance to force him baseline at that point. The damage may have already been done. But yeah, the breakdowns are there. The OP about Tony getting torched by opposing PG's is a little unfair. And I sure don't think that is the Spurs' biggest deficiency on defense.

[superbigtime]

Hill did great tonight, at both ends, but my point was he didn't do well in Toroto nor in NY. He needs consistency.

Parker has been very soft on D lately, though.

GH was good in the fast break and on D. He managed the clock great at the end of the 3rd quarter and got a really nice shot off. But when it's a set half court offense and there's no where to go with the ball, he gets lost. (this was when Tim was on the bench) Seems he does not know what to do without Tim or when he is not calling his own number. I hope he learns how to run the half court offense better.

[GSH]

"What do we do about opposing PGs?"

How about kick their asses?

[HarlemHeat37]

we played against Mike James, and now Kidd/some little scrub..

[ducks]

S. Blake G 22:57 0-8 0-1 0-0 -10 1 1 1 1 0 0 1 0

[HarlemHeat37]

Blake sucks..

our D has looked A LOT better since the Pistons game in general though..

Mo Williams will be the first good PG we play since Iverson, so it should be interesting..

[ducks]

blake had 17 assist not to long ago