Can our beloved Mavs become relevant in 09-10?

[Ghazi]

I know a many of our beloved fanbase was displeased with the lack of action during the trade deadline, although personally I was indifferent since the names being brought up, to me, didn't put us on the level of the Lakers/Celtics/Cavs. If you're gonna take on more contract, it better make you elite rather than get you a few extra regular season wins.

It appears at present this season is lost. best case 1 playoff series win, worst case 1 and done. Nothing much to get thrilled about, and if I was a betting man I'd say we're 1 and done.

And the 09-10 season could be very gloomy, especially if Kidd walks. As much as outsiders say the Kidd trade was dumb, or that Kidd is done, without him our boys in blue be a .500 team this year.

But let's try to be positive.

Stackhouse and J-Ho have heightened trade value this summer, Matt Carroll can be included in deals as well (dubious since he gets like $11M AFTER next year for 3 years)... and you can make a package out of the 2009 #1 draft pick.

If the rumors about recession reducing salary cap are true, and considering the relative inactivity at trade deadline this year, it is possible there could be a firesale in the Summer as well and teams willing to take on contracts can benefit.

So, assuming we could resign our beloved Kidd and Bass, and assuming Stackhouse/Howard have increased trade value due to their contracts, assuming we can create a package with our #1 draft pick, CAN our boys in blue become relevant in 2009-2010, or will we continue our downward path and descendence into irrelevant mediocrity?

I hope the "2010 plan" is exploiting teams that are losing $ this offseason rather than the pipedream of landing a big time free agent in 2010.

Feel free to correct me if I said something d-u-m or incorrect :D

[Chieflion]

I loled.

[Ghazi]

:(

[Rogue]

I would like to see our team get the 4th seed and face portland in the first round. Portland is pretty good this season but this season is the first time they make the playoffs in this decade, the lack of experience will finally lead those young blazers to a lose to us.

inevitably we'll face lakers in the 2nd round, and it'll definitely be a dogfight. Fakers have been sitting on the no.1 place in the west since they robbed memphis, but it doesn't mean we don't have any chance to beat them. we shouldn't have lost to the NO superhornets last postseason but for those BS whistles and those fluke shots from CP, this season is a great time for us to prove it to the world that our team is still a contender in the west. Lakers is gonna aim at our paint as their attacking target, and just leave our center alone on the other end. I expected Donnie to trade some garbage contracts for a decent center like chandler or kaman, but he didn't do anything and just let the deadline pass away. our team would be promoted by a stage if our center was not dampier but yao or stoudmire, even kaman would significantly upgrade our team. the good news is the lakers will also have bynum sidelined for several weeks, and no one can guarantee bynum will be 100% in the post season right after recovering from a bad injury. it's very hard to win the game in the post season with poor defense and only shots on the offensive end, for our team and anyother team in the league. I bet houston will make their debut in the 2nd round this season, as yao is healthy and tmac is done for the season. the only explaination houston sucked in the past two seasons was just yao's injury and tmac's destiny of "2nd round virgin". houton is more than enough to do something in the post season, because they have a good center that can easily own any other center in the league. back to our team, we don't have a good center but we have plenty of sharp shooters outside the paint, but we'll still need our players to break into the rim to clear some space for our shooters to fire. antonie wright will unavoidably take this tough task as he has the worst shooting skills among our guards. carlisle has been saving stack for the playoffs, so I thing we can expect something from stack who will be 100% energetic to appear in the post season.

provided we will beat the Fakers and manage to enter the WCF, then the very possible opponent will be spurs. as we all expect, the TX derby will show again after the former one in 06. we beat the spurs in 06 in western semi finals and defeated suns in WCF, and won the championship after demolishing Miami Cheat. let them keed the rings and cup that are dirt worthless compared to the glory and respect we earned. I think the chance will be on our side because ginobili is also out for the season, Roger Mason and Bonner will suck under our defensive pressure. TD and Parker are still good players, but they are nothing without manu but two street fighters. teamwork is the key that spurs used to conquer others, but they've already lost it along with manu, though they can still limp to the WCF.

I don't care whether our team will win the title this season, at least we will have already dominant the west. Honestly I think Cavs are more powerful than our team at present, so it won't be a regret to lose to that great rival. If the eastern champions are celtics instead of cavs, then I think our team will have more than half of the total possibility to beat the broken down celtics. losing Posey is a desaster for the celtics, their defense depressed alot since they let posey walk. although posey doesn't make hornets any better this season, he was still one of the important piece of celtic's print, even more than perkins, just behind big3 and rondo.

the championship of this season will either come to mavs or fly to cavs, hell lakers and celtics.

[Yorae]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090219/capt.6b7b91c0339c41cb8de206365e82bb7c.nets_maveric ks_basketball_dna101.jpg

Devin can't help but laugh....

[Ghazi]

:lol:toast

[The Franchise]

No.

[Ghazi]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090219/capt.6b7b91c0339c41cb8de206365e82bb7c.nets_maveric ks_basketball_dna101.jpg

Devin can't help but laugh....

Beloved Devin really shouldn't "laugh", our decline began while he was in a Mavs uniform anyway. Kidd is not even a "huge" problem for the Mavs, regressions in the play of Dirk Stack and Howard as well as the team defense and bench are a problem as well. I say Dirk because while performing at a high level he is no longer performing at the MVP level he was from 05-07... the declines in Stack and Howard are more significant steep and alarming though.

Devin's improvement this year is primarily his ability to get to FT line, 9 attempts a game. But his defense has regressed due to increased offensive demand and his shooting % is down, although he is taking more shots.

But that may be system oriented, and likely is. No way does he average 9 FTA a game in a Mavs uniform.

Devin is 10 years younger than our beloved Kidd, but is Devin the better PG? I would say I'm not sure, Kidd simply has a different style. Devin's superior slashing ability doesn't automatically make him a better PG, or else you could list 25-30 PG's better than Kidd who lacks slashing ability, even 6 years ago such was the case.

Other aspects have to be considered as well. it can be said our beloved JET is having a career year in part thanks to Kidd. Terry was 2nd in the league behind King James in points scored in transition, generally set up by Kidd.

Kidd unquestionably can yield more out of his teammates, although his inability to penetrate and score in the halfcourt can really stagnate the offense. But of course, the Mavs problems extend beyond just that simple fact.

[ElNono]

Your team no longer has a coach that demands the best from their players... I honestly believe Carslile fully bought into the 'We love our team' motto.

[Ghazi]

Your team no longer has a coach that demands the best from their players... I honestly believe Carslile fully bought into the 'We love our team' motto.

Avery sucks.

the Mavs problems are roster flaws moreso than coaching.

What better coach was out there anyway? I would've loved Larry Brown, but he took the 'Cats job.

If we assume defense is primarily coaching related, then we'd have to consider Carlisle a good defensive coach since those Pacers team and the Pistons of '02-'03 were solid defensive ballclubs.

But it has to do with talent as well, surely :). Barea/Bass are tweeners, liabilities defensively when they're on the court, but needed as offense is rare. Kidd can't keep quick guards in front of him, Dirk is just an average defender, Terry is mediocre as well. J-Ho has tuned out.

The "most" out of our players still wouldn't be good enough, too many gaping roster holes. JET and Dirk and Kidd for what it's worth, are playing about as good as we can expect them to, atleast offensively.

If there's anything Avery Johnson winning a title in 2006 and Doc Rivers winning one in 2008 tells us, it's that it's a players' league.

Coaching may be a problem for our beloved Mavs, and it certainly is possible considering this team has had a bunch of games where it's not even shoewd up this season, but it is far from the biggest problem.

[eisfeld]

I don't think it's possible to make the Mavs a contender in the near future, so when they are able to get young prospect players out of a trade involving J-Ho and Stack then maybe. Otherwise they have to depend on Free Agency and with the Cap maybe being lower next season it would take Kidd to resign for much less money.

[dirk4mvp]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090219/capt.6b7b91c0339c41cb8de206365e82bb7c.nets_maveric ks_basketball_dna101.jpg

Devin can't help but laugh....

He's really relishing the thought of the Nets being on the outside looking in in the eastern conference.

[Indazone]

Get rid of J-Ho, Get Jet Healthy, upgrade the Center position, get a younger point guard stud and you'll be relevant again.

boy that's a lot of fix-it's

oh and get rid of Stackhouse

[confined]

i lol every time our beloved Ghazi says "beloved" :lol

[Findog]

Why is Devin laughing? Because he's on a team that is 7 games under .500?

[Ghazi]

8* :)

[Lars]

Devin jumped from a declining team to a rebuilding team. Neither is a contender now, but he has a better shot in 2-3 years.

[Findog]

Devin jumped from a declining team to a rebuilding team. Neither is a contender now, but he has a better shot in 2-3 years.

The Nets have been rebuilt all the way to 7 games under .500 in the East?

[Lars]

The Nets have been rebuilt all the way to 7 games under .500 in the East?

rebuildING not rebuilT

[Findog]

If Devin Harris is your best player, you'll never be better than a .500 team. He's a good player, and the Mavs should not have made that specific trade, but...

If it weren't for the draft picks and having to sacrifice this year's MLE, it's hard not to argue that Kidd has indeed given them the short-term upgrade at PG that they were seeking.

[mavs>spurs2]

If Devin Harris is your best player, you'll never be better than a .500 team. He's a good player, and the Mavs should not have made that specific trade, but...

If it weren't for the draft picks and having to sacrifice this year's MLE, it's hard not to argue that Kidd has indeed given them the short-term upgrade at PG that they were seeking.

I think that's bullshit. Harris is better right here, right now. A pass first point guard WILL NOT succeed on a half court team with no offensive weapons to set up for buckets. Dirk gets his off iso's, not by Kidd hitting him on a backdoor cut. We're only going to see more and more of those 2 point, 4 assist games out of Kidd as time goes on.

[Findog]

I think that's bullshit. Harris is better right here, right now. A pass first point guard WILL NOT succeed on a half court team with no offensive weapons to set up for buckets. Dirk gets his off iso's, not by Kidd hitting him on a backdoor cut. We're only going to see more and more of those 2 point, 4 assist games out of Kidd as time goes on.

Devin Harris is a two in a one's body. He's Allen Iverson 2.0. Except for one magical year, that will get you a first-round exit at best if he's your best player. Kidd has been Dallas' second-best and most consistent player this year. He doesn't have a jump shot, never did, and he's past his prime. But he's still a very good player.

When you factor in age and contract, I'd rather have Harris and his ability to slash and get to the rim. But he's basically Rajon Rondo with a bit better and more consistent jumper. Part of his increase in scoring is simply playing more minutes and getting more touches in NJ. He'd still be a third option at best in Dallas.

The Mavs need a slashing type at the 2-guard spot, not at the 1. The lack of playmaking ability at the 1 is part of why the Mavs were motivated to go out and get Kidd in the first place.

[mavs>spurs2]

Devin Harris is a two in a one's body. He's Allen Iverson 2.0. Except for one magical year, that will get you a first-round exit at best if he's your best player. Kidd has been Dallas' second-best and most consistent player this year. He doesn't have a jump shot, never did, and he's past his prime. But he's still a very good player.

When you factor in age and contract, I'd rather have Harris and his ability to slash and get to the rim. But he's basically Rajon Rondo with a bit better and more consistent jumper. Part of his increase in scoring is simply playing more minutes and getting more touches in NJ. He'd still be a third option at best in Dallas.

The Mavs need a slashing type at the 2-guard spot, not at the 1. The lack of playmaking ability at the 1 is part of why the Mavs were motivated to go out and get Kidd in the first place.

What I'm trying to say is, Kidd can't make too many plays when he doesn't have anyone to get out and run with or any scorers to set up. Dirk is an iso player who creates on his own, Josh gets his off jacking jumpers, and Kidd and JET aren't always in the lineup together as Jason comes off the bench. You can take the best passer on the world, but put him on a team of kwame browns and they are going to suck. He has to have someone to make those great passes to. Kidd's skillset is redundant in Dallas.

[Ghazi]

The trade was likely lateral, which makes it a bad trade since we didn't get improvement Mavs looked for but gave up youth and draft picks.

But the misconception that Kidd has killed the product on the court is due to bad luck IMO. For one, last year after the trade Mavs went 1-7 in close games (fluke) and J-Ho's game went to shit, then Mavs played team in 1st round who featured best PG in game, who schooled Kidd just as he would school any other PG. Now this year, the defense has went to shit, Stack's went from solid bench player to completely done, J-Ho is still hovering in mediocrity, Dirk isn't 07 Dirk (regardless of his stats, which are due to taking more shots due to a weakened roster)... it's just poor timing for our beloved Kidd, but I don't think we'd be much better if you swap Kidd with Harris, regardless of what Mavs record was before trade and after trade last year.

But I suppose someone's gotta take the fall, and many outsider fans and Mavs fans themselves will blame the Kidd trade for expediting the decline...but I don't think it's the case. I don't mind Kidd at all.

[manufor3]

The trade was likely lateral, which makes it a bad trade since we didn't get improvement Mavs looked for but gave up youth and draft picks.

But the misconception that Kidd has killed the product on the court is due to bad luck IMO. For one, last year after the trade Mavs went 1-7 in close games (fluke) and J-Ho's game went to shit, then Mavs played team in 1st round who featured best PG in game, who schooled Kidd just as he would school any other PG. Now this year, the defense has went to shit, Stack's went from solid bench player to completely done, J-Ho is still hovering in mediocrity, Dirk isn't 07 Dirk (regardless of his stats, which are due to taking more shots due to a weakened roster)... it's just poor timing for our beloved Kidd, but I don't think we'd be much better if you swap Kidd with Harris, regardless of what Mavs record was before trade and after trade last year.

But I suppose someone's gotta take the fall, and many outsider fans and Mavs fans themselves will blame the Kidd trade for expediting the decline...but I don't think it's the case. I don't mind Kidd at all.

sd, is that you?

[Ghazi]

Anyone wanna chime in on the original Q... CAN the Mavs become good in 2009-2010? J-Ho's contract! Carroll! Stack's contract! 2009 #1 pick! Shawn Williams or Wright as filler? these are assets people! Or are they?!

Worst case scenario is if none of these assets are utilized AND Kidd walks.

Also, are the Mavs gonna be able to resign Bass? It seems like some other team may go out there and overpay for him, and it seems foolish to pay him much since he's a reserve behind our beloved Dirk... but jeee, I really have liked Bass's game this year, despite his defensive deficiencies and being a tweener and all, the scoring punch off the bench is much welcomed, considering 3/5ths of the starting lineup is inconsistent scoring.

[ElNono]

Anyone wanna chime in on the original Q... CAN the Mavs become good in 2009-2010? J-Ho's contract! Carroll! Stack's contract! 2009 #1 pick! Shawn Williams or Wright as filler? these are assets people! Or are they?!

Worst case scenario is if none of these assets are utilized AND Kidd walks.

Also, are the Mavs gonna be able to resign Bass? It seems like some other team may go out there and overpay for him, and it seems foolish to pay him much since he's a reserve behind our beloved Dirk... but jeee, I really have liked Bass's game this year, despite his defensive deficiencies and being a tweener and all, the scoring punch off the bench is much welcomed, considering 3/5ths of the starting lineup is inconsistent scoring.

Define 'good'? One day you're happy with your team losing, the next you're expecting them to beat a better team... What is good? Good enough to make the playoffs? Good enough to compete with the top 2-3 teams in the west? Good enough to win the WCF, or good enough to win it all?

[SpursDynasty]

I know a many of our beloved fanbase was displeased with the lack of action during the trade deadline, although personally I was indifferent since the names being brought up, to me, didn't put us on the level of the Lakers/Celtics/Cavs. If you're gonna take on more contract, it better make you elite rather than get you a few extra regular season wins.

It appears at present this season is lost. best case 1 playoff series win, worst case 1 and done. Nothing much to get thrilled about, and if I was a betting man I'd say we're 1 and done.


And the 09-10 season could be very gloomy, especially if Kidd walks. As much as outsiders say the Kidd trade was dumb, or that Kidd is done, without him our boys in blue be a .500 team this year.

But let's try to be positive.

Stackhouse and J-Ho have heightened trade value this summer, Matt Carroll can be included in deals as well (dubious since he gets like $11M AFTER next year for 3 years)... and you can make a package out of the 2009 #1 draft pick.

If the rumors about recession reducing salary cap are true, and considering the relative inactivity at trade deadline this year, it is possible there could be a firesale in the Summer as well and teams willing to take on contracts can benefit.

So, assuming we could resign our beloved Kidd and Bass, and assuming Stackhouse/Howard have increased trade value due to their contracts, assuming we can create a package with our #1 draft pick, CAN our boys in blue become relevant in 2009-2010, or will we continue our downward path and descendence into irrelevant mediocrity?

I hope the "2010 plan" is exploiting teams that are losing $ this offseason rather than the pipedream of landing a big time free agent in 2010.

Feel free to correct me if I said something d-u-m or incorrect :D


The Kidd trade was dumb. Devin Harris is an All-Star in NJ.

[Ghazi]

Define 'good'? One day you're happy with your team losing, the next you're expecting them to beat a better team... What is good? Good enough to make the playoffs? Good enough to compete with the top 2-3 teams in the west? Good enough to win the WCF, or good enough to win it all?


55-60 regular season wins and atleast 8 playoff wins :hat:hat

[Rogue]

The Kidd trade was dumb. Devin Harris is an All-Star in NJ.
Devin Harris actually has got superstar-caliber stats in NJ, and also hit some fluky halfcourt shots that only all-stars can hit. but it's still just kind of side view to evaluate a player only by his stats.

Kidd is doing more to us than all Harris has ever done for our team, only in a lottery team can harris use TOs to pay tuitions for his growth. fortunately the nets' cultivation finally paid off, harris has made his debut in the all-star game with other first-time allstars like mo williams. however, he wouldn't have become an all-star if he remained in dallas without being traded to nets.

Kidd is already out of his prime for a couple of seasons but his experiences have increased as the time elapses. Jet has been a good player since he joined our team, but he had never been as efficient as he is this season. the upgrade of his efficiency is mainly from kidd's efforts I think.