Duncan out tonight, day-to-day with right quad tendenosis

[MarHill]

Jason Minnix on ESPN Radio just announced that Tim is out for tonight's game because of a right quad tendon issue. It has something to do with the tendon.

He is listed day-to-day!!

Get rested and hopefully he will be ready for Friday's game against the Cavs.
:flag:

[GoGatos]

Diagnosed with Right Quad Tendenosis. Out for tonight's game and status is day-to-day.

[Dex]

Tendinitis != tendinosis

[duncan228]

Editor's update: (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2009/02/spurs-add-pops.html)The Spurs sent out a news release at 3:09 p.m. announcing Tim Duncan will not play tonight due to "right quad tendonosis."

[Dex]

I had the same question.

[MarHill]

Just so we don't have like 200 people going WTF is that!?

Thanks, Dex! :toast

I know that the ST Posters will be freaking out!!!

[Dex]

I cant find a cool article on Right Quad Tendonosis.

[duncan228]

Are Tendonitis and Tendonosis the same thing?

[lurker23]

Sounds very similar to the "patella tendonitis" that some people here were speculating.

This was a very common "injury" that NBA players had back when you had to list an injury (real or imagined) to be put on the inactive list.

[ss1986v2]

Are Tendonitis and Tendonosis the same thing?

no. not that these are the most reliable sources, but they cover the basics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendinitis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendinosis

[timvp]

Well, compared to ligament or cartilage damage, I'm guessing this is good news. Tendinitis of the muscle would explain why Duncan was lacking strength in his knee.

From what I can tell, this is an injury you have to wait out. Playing through it puts the knee at risk. Might have to hold out Duncan a few weeks to allow it to get right.

[Bruno]

It doesn't sound like a bad injury. Good news. :tu

[MarHill]

Well, compared to ligament or cartilage damage, I'm guessing this is good news. Tendinitis of the muscle would explain why Duncan was lacking strength in his knee.

From what I can tell, this is an injury you have to wait out. Playing through it puts the knee at risk. Might have to hold out Duncan a few weeks to allow it to get right.

You may be right, Timvp!

The main thing is to have TD and MG fully healthy for the playoffs. That's all I and the Spurs Nation wants!!

:flag:

[Dex]

Are Tendonitis and Tendonosis the same thing?


Tendinitis vs Tendinosis

It is important to know the difference betwteen Tendinitis and Tendinosis when trying to understand why you have pain around a joint. Tendinitis refers to an ACUTE inflammatory problem with a tendon. This can occur if you have used a specific muscle too much over a short period of time. The classic example is achilles tendinitis that occurs after a long or hilly run. It can also occur by playing too many sets of tennis or swimming excessively. Tendinosis, conversely, is CHRONIC problem with a tendon that usually has lasted at least 6-8 weeks. In this case, there isn't any direct inflammation but rather a poorly organized attempt at repair of the tendon by the body. This results in partial or complete tendon tears in some cases and manifests itself in pain and weakness when trying to use the muscle that is attached to the tendon.

The treatments for this two problems initially are the same. Rest from the activity that is causing the problem, anti-inflammatory medication and a stretching and strengthening program. For more information, go to http://www.emedx.com


http://emedx.blogspot.com/2005/08/tendinitis-vs-tendinosis.html

More internet regurgitation.

[FromWayDowntown]

no. not that these are the most reliable sources, but they cover the basics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendinitis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendinosis

Yeah, just to be sure, Duncan isn't (apparently) dealing with tendonitis -- he's dealing with tendonosis. It's similar, apparently, but treated differently.

[CubanMustGo]

Sounds like Pops will get a second ten-day, at least.

[bdictjames]

So Duncan's had the problem for long?

[Taco]

No Timmy for tonights game? :depressed



http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6586/tonyparker.jpg
Tony and his Tounge will be there :lol

[timvp]

Tendinosis, conversely, is CHRONIC problem with a tendon that usually has lasted at least 6-8 weeks. In this case, there isn't any direct inflammation but rather a poorly organized attempt at repair of the tendon by the body. This results in partial or complete tendon tears in some cases and manifests itself in pain and weakness when trying to use the muscle that is attached to the tendon.:depressed

[MarHill]

Sounds like Pops will get a second ten-day, at least.

Yep!

I hope he can show something..so the Spurs can keep him for the rest of the season!

:flag:

[Dex]

I ain't no doctor, but it don't sound great.

[MarHill]

:depressed


Let's not overreact, Timvp!!!

We have to look at the glass half-full, not half-empty!

[duncan228]

Oberto's thumb?

Spurs’ Duncan has quadriceps tendinitis (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=txspursduncan&prov=st&type=lgns)

San Antonio Spurs forward Tim Duncan has been diagnosed with right quadriceps tendinitis and will miss Wednesday’s game against the Portland Trail Blazers.

Duncan, who also missed Tuesday’s 93-76 win over Dallas, is listed as day-to-day.

San Antonio was without two of its top three players against Dallas, with guard Manu Ginobili out for the next few weeks thanks to a stress reaction in his right ankle.

A perennial All-Star, Duncan leads the Spurs in scoring (20.7) and rebounding (10.7).

The Spurs also announced that center Fabricio Oberto suffered a non-displaced fracture in his left thumb Tuesday. He will be fitted with a splint and play against Portland.

[LockBeard]

At this point, the Spurs should just focus on being as healthy as possible going into the playoffs regardless of rank 2-7.


This ship is getting hella creaky as we reach land.

[Dex]

:pctoss

[VI_Massive]

yikes.

[gingerwave]

Get a shot and play.

[duncan228]

Any guesses whether he'll play Monday? :depressed

Selfish, I know, but it might be my only chance to see him play in person.

Edit: All I want is Duncan healthy. It's just such lousy timing for me. :(

[urunobili]

:depressed

[MarHill]

Get a shot and play.

If it was that easy...he would have played last night.

I would rather lose the day-to-day battle and have a shot to win the war than the opposite.

:flag:

[ploto]

Selfish, I know, but it might be my only chance to see him play in person.

Sorry, but now you understand how the people in Denver felt.

[timvp]

I can't find any instances of NBA players dealing with quad tendenosis. The bad news is it sounds like something that won't totally clear up until next season.

[Bruno]

IMO, he will come back shortly and plays trough it. There is a reason why Spurs list him as "day to day".

[violentkitten]

fuck me.

[duncan228]

Sorry, but now you understand how the people in Denver felt.

I understood then. And if Pop sat Duncan healthy Monday I'd be disappointed but I support Pop's decisions.

There's no guarantee who you'll see on the court.

[timvp]

Sorry, but now you understand how the people in Denver felt.?

That makes no sense.

[Duncan2177]

See you on friday Timmy. :depressed

[SenorSpur]

Jason Minnix on ESPN Radio just announced that Tim is out for tonight's game because of a right quad tendon issue. It has something to do with the tendon.

He is listed day-to-day!!

Aren't we all? :lol

[crc21209]

Timmy will be fine, no worries. He just has to rest it up, stay off of it for however long he can, and take some medicine for it. He's our franchise guys, he's never, ever let us down. Believe in #21.

[Dex]

There better be a ring at the end of this crazy road, because this season makes me want to go :smchode:

[Nathan Explosion]

I got the text message and I was wondering what was going on. However, this problem seems to have arisen from a while back.

In Denver, Tim did complain of a sore knee. No one in the media paid attention though. I remember a thread here where he talked about it, said the knee is always sore.

[MarHill]

Aren't we all? :lol

That's so true, Senor Spur!

Great perspective!!!

:lmao

[Galileo]

Any guesses whether he'll play Monday? :depressed

Selfish, I know, but it might be my only chance to see him play in person.

Edit: All I want is Duncan healthy. It's just such lousy timing for me. :(

if he doesn't play, you might get to sit by him near the bench.

:-)

[duncan228]

McDonald chimes in, with the Oberto mention again.

Duncan has tendinitis, won't play vs. Blazers (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2009/02/duncan-has-tend.html)
By Jeff McDonald

Spurs medical personnel have determined that All-star forward Tim Duncan, who missed Tuesday's victory over Dallas, has tendinitis in his right quad. He will miss tonight's game against Portland as well.

Duncan will be considered day-to-day going forward. He leads the Spurs in scoring (20.7 points per game), rebounding (10.7 per game) and blocks (1.87 per game).

Meanwhile, one player who ought to see his playing time increase with Duncan out is battling an injury as well. Fabricio Oberto suffered a non-displaced fracture in his left thumb against the Mavericks. He will be fitted for a splint and is expected to be available tonight against the Trail Blazers.

[1Parker1]

Aren't we all? :lol

Sorry but I :lol'ed

[timvp]

McDonald chimes in, with the Oberto mention again.

Duncan has tendinitis, won't play vs. Blazers (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2009/02/duncan-has-tend.html)
By Jeff McDonald

Spurs medical personnel have determined that All-star forward Tim Duncan, who missed Tuesday's victory over Dallas, has tendinitis in his right quad. He will miss tonight's game against Portland as well.

Duncan will be considered day-to-day going forward. He leads the Spurs in scoring (20.7 points per game), rebounding (10.7 per game) and blocks (1.87 per game).

Meanwhile, one player who ought to see his playing time increase with Duncan out is battling an injury as well. Fabricio Oberto suffered a non-displaced fracture in his left thumb against the Mavericks. He will be fitted for a splint and is expected to be available tonight against the Trail Blazers.I'll assume it's tendenosis and not tendinitis. Tendinitis would be good news .... but McDonald probably just made a mistake, per usual.

[InK]

So is this serious or not?

[Spursmania]

:bang

[Spurs Brazil]

Damn, a lot of injuries hitting us.

Too bad for Oberto, he played great yesterday.

About TD I'm happy it's anything on the knee but I hope he can be back soon and not in 6-8 weeks

And day-to-day is nothing to me. In 2000 TD was also day to day and we all know what happened. I know this isn't the same but..

:depressed

[timvp]

And day-to-day is nothing to me. In 2000 TD was also day to day and we all know what happened.Ugh.

But yeah, let's hope this is actual day-to-day and Duncan will play once he can manage the pain and regain some strength.

[Spurs Brazil]

Didn't TD also had a quad problem in 2004?
It was a game against the Mavs on the road and he left the game in the 3rd or 4th quarter and missed about 2 or 3 weeks. He tryed to comeback against the Clippers but than he missed some more games.
If I'm not wrong was also a quad thing

[arodz]

Spurs lose tonight. Tony was drained after last nights game. FUCK, I'm getting sick of this injury shit!!! Why the fuck can't it be Finley or Oberto that gets injured.

[MoSpur]

So do we Tim next to Manu and Ian in a sports coat?

[InK]

Too bad for Oberto, he played great yesterday.



what? Oberto is hurt as well?

[Brazil]

The good news is if Tony has an average game and we loose ugly we will have a ton of fun threads.

[Flux451]

I am looking at the bright side. Time to check out the youngins!!!

p.s.
get better team, we need all of you!!

[MarHill]

Spurs lose tonight. Tony was drained after last nights game. FUCK, I'm getting sick of this injury shit!!! Why the fuck can't it be Finley or Oberto that gets injured.

Mason, Finley, and Bonner will have to score tonight and get it going early for the Spurs to win.

TP will still get 20 points and Oberto and Thomas will need about 16-18 pts between the two as well.

[Spurs Brazil]

I found this one from 04

It was a quad injury but on his left quad


Tim Duncan - F/C - Spurs

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram suggests there may be more to Tim Duncan's injury than just a bruised left quad.

Duncan was in pain, nursing what appeared to be a left knee injury. He and the Spurs' trainer were constantly rubbing the knee cap, and the Spurs denied the Mavs' doctor's request to take a postgame look at Duncan (which is simply protocol for the home team to offer). Until the Spurs say otherwise, however, we have to assume the report of "day-to-day with a bruised quad" is all there is.
Feb. 27 - 6:28 a.m. ET

[MoSpur]

Umm...I have a feeling he'll play in Los Angeles. It wil be a week of rest or so.

[timvp]

Didn't TD also had a quad problem in 2004?
It was a game against the Mavs on the road and he left the game in the 3rd or 4th quarter and missed about 2 or 3 weeks. He tryed to comeback against the Clippers but than he missed some more games.
If I'm not wrong was also a quad thing

Good memory.


Duncan has not played since injuring his left quadriceps against the Dallas Mavericks on Feb. 28. An MRI revealed what was termed an irritation of his left patellofemoral joint.

Duncan ended up missing about three weeks. During that time, he came back and attempted to play against the Clippers but couldn't finish the game.

The weird thing is that Duncan's left knee is the one that has given him trouble the last eight years. This time it's the right knee.

[MoSpur]

It would be nice if Ian would man up and be able to play. I'd rather see Pops play than Orberto with a jacked up thumb. Just saying.

[Spursmania]

Man oh man... looks like it will be another tough game tonight without Manu and Timmy. :(
I'm hoping Spurs can do it again. But they have got to be bummed out about Tim's diagnosis. Well, this is an opportunity for the guys to step up and show us what they can do. Will Pops be in uniform tonight (#54?)?

Most importantly, Tim's injury hopefully is not serious, I much rather have him chill and get way better before he plays again. He is our man in the playoffs. Our guys have got to be healthy. Come on Manu-get healthy as well. :flag:

[timvp]

Until the Spurs say otherwise, however, we have to assume the report of "day-to-day with a bruised quad" is all there is.Day-to-day in 2000 really meant out for the season. Day-to-day in 2004 meant three weeks. Hopefully that keeps trending south.

[Galileo]

If this were the playoffs, Tim would be playing and we wouldn't even know about it.

[timvp]

Man on man

:guin

[Thomas82]

I'll assume it's tendenosis and not tendinitis. Tendinitis would be good news .... but McDonald probably just made a mistake, per usual.

I saw tendonosis on ESPN.com too.

[West Coast Spur]

Give him time. And not as big a deal, since Portland is on a back to back as well, playing last night in Houston. Hopefully Timmy can be back for the Cleveland game. More rest for Timmy, more PT for Pops (hopefully). Could be worse, even though it is getting tough hearing about injuries every day.

[Spurs Brazil]

I saw tendonosis on ESPN.com too.

It's tendonosis in every report. Only McDonald got it wrong, as usual

[Thomas82]

If this were the playoffs, Tim would be playing and we wouldn't even know about it.

I have no doubt about that.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

In my expert medical opinion, this sucks the shit right out of a baboon's anus. Get well soon, Tim!

[Spursmania]

From an orthopoedic musculoskeletal physician, this is the deal... Tendinitis and tendonosis are basically the same thing. It's just semantics... They are tiny tears on the tendon. Good news is rest will heal it up. Bad news is Timmy doesn't have time to rest it and he will be using his quad everytime he jumps, thus exacerbating the problem. Bottom line-Timmy will get some rest, but he's going to come back before he's really healed, so let's just hope he can withstand the injury long enough to get through the playoffs. Again, man oh man....:wow

[xtremesteven33]

He will be fine.

Nothing REALLY serious.

[Pauleta14]

Aren't we all? :lol

:lmao

[GSH]

Shit. It sounds like they definitely said tendinosis, and not tendinitis. Sometimes the use of terminology is a little loose, but if they meant what they said, tendinosis involves damage to (degeneration of) the tendon itself. There could be a number of causes, but with a basketball player the most likely is "playing through" the pain of tendinitis over a prolonged period of time.

Tendinitis is an inflammatory condition, but tendinosis is a degenerative condition. Sometimes doctors use the term tendinosis when there is a partial tear of a tendon, even though the tear isn't related to the degeneration of tissue. But, generally speaking, tendinosis indicates some degeneration and an impairment of the healing process of the tendon. The fact that he says it has been hurting all season says that it is chronic.

When tendon breakdown exceeds the body's ability to repair, small "micro-injuries" occur. The damaged areas get "repaired" with abnormal replacement cells (collagen). The resulting area is not as strong as normal tendon tissue.

A lot depends on the progression of the condition, and whether there are calcifications. But tendinosis is a cycle. Once the tendon is damaged and heals improperly, it is more succeptible to future damage.

I think I would rather have heard that it was a small meniscus tear.

[Shank]

Is everyone else just learning the word "tendonosis" today like I am? I thought it was a misprint the first time I saw it.

[Ice009]

So what's the deal GSH? This is not good then?

What does Tim need to do rest? If so, for how long?

[picnroll]

Sorry, but now you understand how the people in Denver felt.

Now maybe you understand why he didn't play in Denver.

[StoneBuddha]

Here's an excerpt from one site. Google is wonderful, but it didn't necessarily make me feel better.

http://www.irontrybe.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-30984.html

"New research has lead medical professionals to realize that in the majority of patients (about 90%)who come in with "tendonitis" the problem is no longer tendonitis, but tendonosis which is a degenerative condition of the tendon.
Tendonosis is characterized by degeneration of the collagen fibers in the tendon (the fibers that provide the tensile strength), tendon weakness, abnormal growth of unhealthy blood vessals through the tendon, and most importantly no inflammatory cells. Basically the nice straight strong fibers of collagen become a tangled mess of strings with little pockets of "jelly" and small weak blood vessals. If you look at pictures of a healthy tendon it will be white and glistening, tendons with tendonosis are dull and brownish. Keep in mind that this is not an inflammatory process, so there is no reason for anti-inflammatories or injections.
Tendonosis is a more difficult problem to heal with only an 80% chance of resolving. Typical tendonosis can take anywhere from 8 weeks to 9 months to resolve depending on how long you have had the problem. There are quite a few treatment options out there right now but the best protocol seems to be: Relative rest, ice, friction massage, and exercise. I will go over each of these steps for you... "

[FromWayDowntown]

Is everyone else just learning the word "tendonosis" today like I am? I thought it was a misprint the first time I saw it.

It's like the Spurs' medical staff is digging through books to find obscure conditions or something -- a stress reaction last week and tendonosis this week.

[FromWayDowntown]

There are quite a few treatment options out there right now but the best protocol seems to be: Relative rest, ice, friction massage, and exercise.

Better than a treatment course that requires immobilization or something like that, I guess.

Just looking for a reason to be optimistic . . . .

[Shank]

It's like the Spurs' medical staff is digging through books to find obscure conditions or something -- a stress reaction last week and tendonosis this week.

Um...Tim is out tonight with Chronic Kneeitisosis...and shit.

[GSH]

I just called a buddy who is in the field. He said they are doing a new treatment where they inject the damaged area with an irritant, which initiates a normal healing process. It sounds like some of the abnormal collagen gets replaced with normal cells.

One thing I didn't mention. They could manage the pain, and he could keep on playing. The biggest risks are that the weakened tissue would eventually allow the tendon to tear or rupture. Other than that, he would probably just injure the tendon more, and the area of abnormal tissue would get larger.

In other words, it's not that he can't play. It's not like tendinitis. In fact, total inactivity isn't even good, because it weakens the muscles and leaves the athlete subject to more injury. It's probably more a matter of managing minutes.

[HarlemHeat37]

the injuries have been ridiculous this season..not just for the Spurs, but for the entire league..

rest Tim as long as he needs, nothing matters right now..as long as Tim and Manu are in rhythm and healthy for the playoffs, I could care less about seeding..

[Thomas82]

I just called a buddy who is in the field. He said they are doing a new treatment where they inject the damaged area with an irritant, which initiates a normal healing process. It sounds like some of the abnormal collagen gets replaced with normal cells.

One thing I didn't mention. They could manage the pain, and he could keep on playing. The biggest risks are that the weakened tissue would eventually allow the tendon to tear or rupture. Other than that, he would probably just injure the tendon more, and the area of abnormal tissue would get larger.

In other words, it's not that he can't play. It's not like tendinitis. In fact, total inactivity isn't even good, because it weakens the muscles and leaves the athlete subject to more injury. It's probably more a matter of managing minutes.

I just want him healthy enough to bring us home another trophy.

[Thomas82]

the injuries have been ridiculous this season..not just for the Spurs, but for the entire league..

rest Tim as long as he needs, nothing matters right now..as long as Tim and Manu are in rhythm and healthy for the playoffs, I could care less about seeding..

Amen to that!!

[Ice009]

I just called a buddy who is in the field. He said they are doing a new treatment where they inject the damaged area with an irritant, which initiates a normal healing process. It sounds like some of the abnormal collagen gets replaced with normal cells.

One thing I didn't mention. They could manage the pain, and he could keep on playing. The biggest risks are that the weakened tissue would eventually allow the tendon to tear or rupture. Other than that, he would probably just injure the tendon more, and the area of abnormal tissue would get larger.

In other words, it's not that he can't play. It's not like tendinitis. In fact, total inactivity isn't even good, because it weakens the muscles and leaves the athlete subject to more injury. It's probably more a matter of managing minutes.

So how long do you think he'll be out for? Would the Spurs use this new treatment your friend mentioned on Tim?

This really, really, really pisses me off. A lot of us wanted the Spurs FO to get help for Tim in the off season and they didn't do it. So has Tim had tendinitis and kept playing on and it has resulted in this?

[HarlemHeat37]

well like others have said, Duncan has had problems in his other knee before..

playing more minutes and having to carry the team might affect it more, but it isn't that surprising to see Duncan having these types of injuries IMO..

[Agloco]

I just called a buddy who is in the field. He said they are doing a new treatment where they inject the damaged area with an irritant, which initiates a normal healing process. It sounds like some of the abnormal collagen gets replaced with normal cells.

One thing I didn't mention. They could manage the pain, and he could keep on playing. The biggest risks are that the weakened tissue would eventually allow the tendon to tear or rupture. Other than that, he would probably just injure the tendon more, and the area of abnormal tissue would get larger.

In other words, it's not that he can't play. It's not like tendinitis. In fact, total inactivity isn't even good, because it weakens the muscles and leaves the athlete subject to more injury. It's probably more a matter of managing minutes.


Tendinitis != tendinosis

To Dex, No.....

Tendinosis is a failure of the tendons to heal properly over time. Kinda like a collection of microscopic injuries which add up. There might be inflammation initially but it's the lack of healing which keeps the tendon weak over time. Repetitive motion is a big culprit......

Without getting too technical, the ratio of Type I Collagen to Type III Collagen decreases making the tendon more fragile in general (Alpha 1/Alpha2 mismatches can cause it too). The fiber structure becomes more disorganized as well. (you tend to see more separation).

While vascularity is usually increased in the affected area, this is not akin to the inflammatory response most folks are familiar with and must be treated a bit differently. NSAIDS are actually counterproductive and can impede the healing process. PT, Ice, Rest and grandmas chicken soup are the best remedies.

[superbigtime]

Spurs lose tonight. Tony was drained after last nights game. FUCK, I'm getting sick of this injury shit!!! Why the fuck can't it be Finley or Oberto that gets injured.

Oberto did get injured, thanks to your post. He broke his thumb.

[GSH]

Here's a simple version:

The tendon is made out of stretchy stuff. With heavy use, some of the cells get damaged, and the body replaces them with more stretchy stuff. But the tendon needs some rest, to give the body enough time to repair the damaged area.

When the tendon doesn't get enough rest to allow proper healing, it sort of puts a "patch" on the area. The patch cells aren't as stretchy as normal tendon cells. The patched area is thicker than normal, but it isn't as strong because it isn't as stretchy.

That makes the area around the patch more likely to get injured. (Picture a rubber band with one section that is less stretchy than the rest.) And if the new injuries get "patched", the weak area on the tendon grows larger.

Eventually the tendon can tear, rupture, or pull away from the bone. The risk goes up as the "patched" area gets larger. One of the keys is to start managing the problem before it grows too large. It's one more reason why "playing through" pain is not a good long-term plan.

I jumped the gun assuming the worst. If the degenerative area is not too large, he could definitely play out the season normally. They would focus on managing minutes, and giving him as much recovery time as possible, as well as using ice, massage, etc. And he could continue to do the same in future seasons. But rest won't repair the area that is already damaged.

[For you skeptics - I have a great big knot on a tendon from tendinosis. I "played through" what I thought was tendinitis, and got the cortisone shots to reduce the pain... which let me damage it even more. Another doc showed me pictures of a ruptured tendon, and finally convinced me to make a change.]

[benefactor]

Not the best we could hear and definitely not the worst. Hopefully Pop paces him throughout the rest of the season and he is ready for the playoffs.

[50 cent]

Fuck a duck. I have a feeling for all intents and purposes that he is done for the season.

[jdev82]

it could be jumpers knee, but i found nothing specific on webmd. any doctors here?
know how long this could potentially keep him out in the worst case scenario?

[timvp]

I think I would rather have heard that it was a small meniscus tear.No way. He'd be out for the season if he had a meniscus tear.

[Russ]

When Pop sat out the Big 3, wasn't Duncan quoted as saying "my knee hurts every night" or some such thing.

If so, that may counsel a more benign interpretation of this whole injury story. (Or maybe, the other way around?)

[Dex]

I need more emoticons that display anger and dismay.

[StoneBuddha]

Eveyone's too tired from the last two weeks of drama... but here you go. :bang

[duncan228]

When Pop sat out the Big 3, wasn't Duncan quoted as saying "my knee hurts every night" or some such thing.

If so, that may counsel a more benign interpretation of this whole injury story. (Or maybe, the other way around?)

It was most recently mentioned in a Buck Harvey article. Whether the article is referring to Duncan's right knee, which has the trouble now, or his left, which has been troublesome longer, isn't clear.


Duncan has legitimate reasons to tire, too. Gregg Popovich now says he benched Duncan in Denver last week because he had a sore knee.

“It's sore every day,” Duncan said.

Every day?

“Absolutely.”

[024]

maybe mahinmi is just so good, duncan would only get in his way so they bench him.

[sprrs]

Pop said it was tendonitis in the pre-game show

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I need more emoticons that display anger and dismay.

Try these out:

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t222/biarmampus/emoticon/angry.gif http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m4/canalpop/emoticon/angry-1.gif http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/iamaeris/emoticon/angry.gif http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp195/jokiez/angry.gif

[picnroll]

A few more Spurs' injuries and I can sit for my medical boards.

[Thomas82]

To Dex, No.....

Tendinosis is a failure of the tendons to heal properly over time. Kinda like a collection of microscopic injuries which add up. There might be inflammation initially but it's the lack of healing which keeps the tendon weak over time. Repetitive motion is a big culprit......

Without getting too technical, the ratio of Type I Collagen to Type III Collagen decreases making the tendon more fragile in general (Alpha 1/Alpha2 mismatches can cause it too). The fiber structure becomes more disorganized as well. (you tend to see more separation).

While vascularity is usually increased in the affected area, this is not akin to the inflammatory response most folks are familiar with and must be treated a bit differently. NSAIDS are actually counterproductive and can impede the healing process. PT, Ice, Rest and grandmas chicken soup are the best remedies.


Here is something that I found:

Tendonosis is different than tendonitis. Tendonosis is the actual degeneration of tendon, where tendonitis is the inflammation of tendons. Tendonosis can be treated with physical therapy and ice pack treatments.

Tendonosis is a condition of tendons in which the tendon is degenerative. Many people confuse tendonosis with tendonitis, because both are disorders of the tendons.

The difference between tendonitis and tendonosis is subtle, but the difference between tendonitis and tendonosis is important. While tendonitis is the inflammation of the tendon, tendonosis is the degeneration of the tendon.

Inflammation of the tendons is fairly simple to cure. If you have tendonitis, you should take anti-inflammatory medicines such as ibuprofen or aspirin and you should ice the area around the tendons when it is especially inflamed.

Combined with rest, an anti-inflammatory medicine and ice should bring a tendon afflicted with tendonitis back to normal within four weeks unless the tendonitis has been present for a long time. If the tendonitis has been present for a very long time, it might take up to six weeks for the tendonitis to go away. If treatment for tendonitis does not help within six weeks, your problem is probably not inflammation of the tendon, but rather, degeneration of the tendon.

Tendons are similar to the tough strings that you have difficulty cutting through on packing tape. When a tendon that strengthens the cartilage that connects your muscles to your bones begins to degenerate, you begin to feel pain and weakness every time you use the area of the body where the tendon is degenerating.

You can do a few things to make tendonosis better. First, do not stop using the tendon because of discomfort. Use the tendon as much as is possible without injuring it further. Second, use ice massage on the affected area. Third, utilize physical therapy to increase the productivity of the tendon and last but not least, get friction massage for the area of the affected tendon.

While friction massage goes against the grain of the tendon and it actually hurts to have it performed, it is the most important part of healing tendonosis.

[Yorae]

Initial recovery is usually within 2 to 3 months and full recovery is within 3 to 6 months. About 80% of patients will fully recover. It's treatment is largely PALLATIVE!!!!

OK i'm gonna jump from 9th floor right now....

[Mugen]

relax man, timmy looked like he was in a pretty good mood at the game.

if it was really that serious or bothering him that much, then i doubt he would be so jovial.

i say sit him out against cleveland.

[Yorae]

Ok pick your choice ala president swarchenegger:

1. Eccentric loading
2. Inflatable brace
3. Shock-wave therapy
4. Tendon Bioengineering
5. Vitamin E
6. Nitric oxide

You don't have to know, just pick!!!!

[GSH]

No way. He'd be out for the season if he had a meniscus tear.


Yeah, that was an over-reaction from my own experience with tendinosis. I was comparing a tiny meniscus tear vs. advanced tendinosis. Mine would have been career-ending... if I had actually been good enough to have a career. No reason to think that Tim's is that bad, except that he is a big man who has been playing long basketball seasons for a lot of years.

The problem with tendonosis is that the affected area of tendon doesn't get better with rest or therapy. Or that's what I thought. I posted earlier about a treatment that sounds like it can actually repair some (or all?) of the damaged tissue. The guy telling me about it didn't have much time to talk, but I'll try to get more details in the next couple of days.

The basics were that they inject an irritant (dextrose?) into the affected area. That induces the body's repair response, and gives it a chance to heal the tissue with "normal" collagen. Here I'm just guessing, but it sounded like he was saying that some of the degenerative tissue could actually be replaced by healthy tendon tissue. I hope I'm not reading too much into it, but that's what it sounded like. I'm sure it would be an off-season treatment, in any case. So the rest of the season will be about managing the pain, and trying not to injure the knee any further.

[Yorae]

I am going to send him a lot of wheat germ oil.

[timvp]

Duncan was moving around well at the game. He also seemed to be in good spirits. Supposedly there's a 50/50 chance he plays Friday.

Good news :tu

[Yorae]

Yeah, looks like his Tendinosis is not the bad type....yay!

[Yorae]

Found this on the AP.

Popovich said Duncan felt better Wednesday, but added the injury was severe enough that Duncan would have still sat Tuesday even if it was the playoffs.

[EricB]

Sit him out till next week.

[Manufan909]

Try these out:

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t222/biarmampus/emoticon/angry.gif http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m4/canalpop/emoticon/angry-1.gif http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/iamaeris/emoticon/angry.gif http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp195/jokiez/angry.gif

Damn, photobucket has EVERYTHING.






I think he should play if GSH is right, the gist of it seems to be he sould play, but just limited minutes. I think he said only resting the tendon would be bad, just don't put too much pressure on it(20 mins max?). And I know I butchered that, just look at his last 5 or so posts.

[Spurtacus]

Let Timmy rest. He deserves it. TP can run the show.

[Manufan909]

Let Timmy rest. He deserves it. TP can run the show.

Nice sig. Where did you find those, or did you make them?

[polandprzem]

Pop said it was tendonitis in the pre-game show

I call it tenonotioziz when I read one or the other one

I'm fine with that

[Spurs Brazil]

Duncan was moving around well at the game. He also seemed to be in good spirits. Supposedly there's a 50/50 chance he plays Friday.

Good news :tu

Good news

I hope to see him playing friday

[hater]

Duncan will be fine. But I hope Pop lets him rest for 2 full weeks.

[Agloco]

Fuck a duck. I have a feeling for all intents and purposes that he is done for the season.

I hate being the harbinger of bad news, but this is a distinct possibility. The fact that he said his knee had been hurting for quite some time raises all sorts of red flags.

We will have to trust the Spurs training staff to give the correct therapies and hope that Timmy is a good healer......

[VI_Massive]

The way things are going now, I say let him sit as long as he needs to.

Give him that Cruzan cure -- some bush tea and bathe in the sea.

[Agloco]

Yeah, that was an over-reaction from my own experience with tendinosis. I was comparing a tiny meniscus tear vs. advanced tendinosis. Mine would have been career-ending... if I had actually been good enough to have a career. No reason to think that Tim's is that bad, except that he is a big man who has been playing long basketball seasons for a lot of years.

The problem with tendonosis is that the affected area of tendon doesn't get better with rest or therapy. Or that's what I thought. I posted earlier about a treatment that sounds like it can actually repair some (or all?) of the damaged tissue. The guy telling me about it didn't have much time to talk, but I'll try to get more details in the next couple of days.

The basics were that they inject an irritant (dextrose?) into the affected area. That induces the body's repair response, and gives it a chance to heal the tissue with "normal" collagen. Here I'm just guessing, but it sounded like he was saying that some of the degenerative tissue could actually be replaced by healthy tendon tissue. I hope I'm not reading too much into it, but that's what it sounded like. I'm sure it would be an off-season treatment, in any case. So the rest of the season will be about managing the pain, and trying not to injure the knee any further.

This is correct. It's a high percentage Dextrose solution (25%). Ultrasonography is used by many groups to guide treatment rather than blind injections.

[xtremesteven33]

He will be fine.

Cmon guys, if it was that serious he would be going under multiple tests and believe me Pop would say he needs to be out 2 weeks or longer.

The fact that he says he might play Friday (knowing how cautious Pop has always been) should say that he is doing good.

[Manufan909]

This is correct. It's a high percentage Dextrose solution (25%). Ultrasonography is used by many groups to guide treatment rather than blind injections.

So what do you think TD should do? I think GSH stated it would better to keep working the injured area than just rest it, but i could be fucking way off base.

And how do you know what you do? Are you in the medical field somehow, or did you just research it?

[Thomas82]

Duncan was moving around well at the game. He also seemed to be in good spirits. Supposedly there's a 50/50 chance he plays Friday.

Good news :tu

That's definately some good news.

[GSH]

So what do you think TD should do? I think GSH stated it would better to keep working the injured area than just rest it

The people looking after Tim and Manu are top-notch. I'm just a guy who bleeds silver and black, like most of the rest of you.

Stress reactions/fractures and tendinitis/tendinosis are prevalent with athletes and military personnel. I've got some personal experience, as have many friends. Guys like us don't have world-class sports doctors, so I learned as much as I could on my own. I posted what I learned for the other fans who are wondering what's going to happen with their favorite players and with the Spurs' season. I'm confident that the information I posted is pretty accurate, but none of it is news to the people making the decisions about Tim and Manu.

The one big thing I have seen is that a doctor can't prevent a guy from pushing too hard when he is injured. If he refuses to follow medical advice, the doc will treat him the best way he can. (Including things like cortisone shots that take away the pain.) And a lot of unnecessary additional damage can happen to body parts. Tim and Manu are both tough and competitive. It's good for them to have partners in the decision making process. Fortunately Pop and the Spurs FO are a class act. They will do the right thing.