Game Blog: Spurs vs. Cavaliers 2/27/09

[Indazone]

lol Pops! I remember the first time we stuck Landry in a game...the reaction was the same as this.

[smrattler]

Hubie had to throw a bowl of cold water on Shaq's game... "Tornto has been very dissapointing this year..."

[FREEDOM]

beat the cavs.......... beat the cavs

[carina_gino20]

Manu is on even shakier ground. Manu was close on the ballots in 2005 to be Finals MVP and had a spectacular year as an all-star. He also was great in Game 4 against the Cavs in 2007 Finals to finish out the games. He also was great against the Jazz and Nuggets in helping us win those playoff series. Manu also has his international record to help him. Having won the Gold Medal and being the MVP of the Italian League (if that's no right, plz feel free to correct me).
However, his stats in the NBA are about average. And because of his last couple of years in terms of injuries, it doesn't look like he will have a lot to add to his resume for that argument (to be a HOFer).



It's not the NBA Hall of Fame, but the Basketball Hall of Fame. Manu could retire tomorrow and be a lock into the HoF.

[Indazone]

Pops is going to be a good one.

[smrattler]

Denver beat LAL?

Did LA sit their big three too?

LOL!

[Slippy]

i think sometimes spurs fans get carried away with the whole "anyone who gets media attention must be an asshole." just because it's duncan's preference not to seek attention, nba players are after all entertainers. james is good and dominating against the spurs right now.

.
I hope im not one of those fans... got nothing against entertaining but im all about the game first. Leading up to the start of todays game i thought it was over the top. All the dancing.. just don't see that sort of thing happening with the spurs and i appreaciate that.. each to his own, how-ever . Thats how Lebron wants to prepare for a game , well thats fine. Obviously the cavs are ok with it and i had a good laugh. Lebron also backed it up on the court .. like i said he's a great player.

With the Spurs... it didn't just start with Duncan. DRob was one of those guys too.. They let their actions do their talking on the court. Nothing wrong with that either.

[ducks]

pops>scola

[FREEDOM]

Shaq had 45 tonight!!!! GTFO!!! lol

awesome

shaq lost control huh

[smrattler]

Pops dominating the boards....

[Spur-Addict]

Pops needs to be more firm on the defensive glass.

[FREEDOM]

Hubie had to throw a bowl of cold water on Shaq's game... "Tornto has been very dissapointing this year..."
hubie sucks, he's like an old algebra teacher that eyeballs you during a test

[peskypesky]

Is it just me, or have we found that offensive player we were looking for that can drive to the hoop with authority instead of taking 3 pointers? I think we need to sign pops for the rest of the season!

:toast


also, hairston needs to take ime's minutes from now until the season is over.

:toast

[Yorae]

uhm...let's not lose by 30?

[timtonymanu]

goddamn Mike Brown take out West already.

[smrattler]

Pops thinking he needed to be part of a TRIPLE team past the three point line!!!

LOL!!!!

[TheProfessor]

I hope this game is remembered for the ascension of a couple of young guys (Hairston, Pops) and the end of another's minutes in the rotation (Ime).

[timtonymanu]

uhm...let's not lose by 30?

let's score at least 75.

[Banzai]

Denver beat LAL?

Did LA sit their big three too?

LOL!

the Lakers had an off night clearly.

[Libri]

Dunk by Hill.

[Yorae]

goddamn Mike Brown take out West already.

No choice.

[tomtom]

nice dunk hill

[tomtom]

sweet block by pops

[FREEDOM]

Its his first game dude, and his D is better than bonners....give him a few weeks.
no shit i hate it when lamers try to slam ppl when they barely start or are just plain critical of every damn thing yet they couldnt even hang in a game of pick up basketball

[Yorae]

Pops!!!

[tomtom]

damn pops just keeps impressing

[smrattler]

Pops block!!!!

Bout to throw down the thunder again, had to foul him though, the only defense for Pops!!!

[TheProfessor]

Can u guys imagine Pops Ian and Gist in the same line up???
Yes, we'd be a very athletic lottery team :lol

[ducks]

Can u guys imagine Pops Ian and Gist in the same line up???

add tp and hill


the future spurs starting lineup without duncan and manu

[timtonymanu]

man if i hear the word "dominant" one more time im gonna go crazy.

this was not a dominant performance. it was a no brainer win versus a Duncan/Manu less Spurs.

[ploto]

This is the same Cavs team that lost by almost 20 last night in Houston??

[Yorae]

Can u guys imagine Pops Ian and Gist in the same line up???

like the old run and gun suns????

[dolacheck]

LOL so I just tuned in and my fav comment by the commentators "The Cavs had a dominant performance tonight" Well ya considering there is no Timmy or Gino, yet that has not been mentioned in the last couple minutes while the commentators hype the Cavs.

[boutons_]

Pops is getting by with his athleticism, but not real sure about his game.

[Yorae]

This is the same Cavs team that lost by almost 20 last night in Houston??

No. They have a better effort today. And Tim and Manu helped them.

[Mugen]

if we take one positive thing from this game, it's that we got a nice core group of young guys to work with. Hairston, Hill, and hopefully Pops all look like guys that can be solid contributors in this league.

throw in mahinmi and gist and we got an athletic young group of guys

[smrattler]

I don't care if Pops isn't fundamentally sound, we have enough guys like that. I don't care if he knows the playbook.

I just want a guy we can tell to give TD room and crash the boards on both ends and take the open lanes for throw downs. We can afford one guy like that out there for a few mins a night.

[Chomag]

I think that the Spurs have had more dunks in this one game then they have all season :lol

[Mugen]

lol at breen, hubie, and mark.

i would LOVE to see cleveland in the finals again.

[Ice009]

+1

Hard sell to say LeBron hasn't been great off the court as well on. Quality person and tremendous talent.

He does need to add a consistent midrange jumpshot to this game. Then he needs to add the 3. Whenever that happens, his team will win consecutive championships IF he is surrounded by as good a group of players and outside shooters as he has now on his team.

LeBron James is a stud character off the court as well as on.

NBA is fortunate to have one of its two best players have such such great character and to represent himself, his team and the game and the league so well.

Everyone should be able to agree about that.


I agree. Since I don't follow the Cavs at all from the outside Lebron to me seems like a decent guy. Unless someone can tell me different I think he has some class and doesn't talk shit for no reason at all like a lot of players do.

Anyway Pops is looking good. Around the rim he could dunk it at anytime.

[peskypesky]

Pops may just be the missing piece of the Spurs puzzle. You can just see his aggressiveness......every time he gets the ball he wants to throw down...and he's got hustle...and he has the energy and hops to block shots too...

sure he's raw..and it'll take some time for him to master the Spurs' system, but from what i've seen on youtube and tonight, he's the first Spurs big man in a LONG time with beasting ability.

[smrattler]

Pops draws another foul... back to the line.

[Yorae]

How about splitter and bonsu together on court.....

[FREEDOM]

lets get 85 guys

[mytespurs]

I had a feeling the Cavs would come ready to play after they got their butts handed to them last night. So I'm not surprised...disappointed that the Spurs didn't play well. I love the spurs but I can't see this team getting to the Finals, even with a healthy Manu & Tim........

[smrattler]

pops got us to the magic 75 points!!

[ducks]

wow

[Spur-Addict]

Nice hustle pops.

[smrattler]

Pops creating another turnover..

[mVp]

Nice.

[peskypesky]

awesome dunk from Hairston!!!

[Yorae]

Wow Ime can;t get anything to go down....

[MateoNeygro]

Hairston with the throw down and one!

[FREEDOM]

nice dunk and 1 baby!

[peskypesky]

I think that the Spurs have had more dunks in this one game then they have all season :lol

they have

[Spurs Brazil]

Malik dunk and one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smrattler]

WTF?!?!?!?!

All these dunks, now Hairston?

Pops is gonna be screaming now!!

[Spur-Addict]

Ahhhhh!!!! Malik!! This fourth quarter is awesome despite the obvious loss pending.

[Yorae]

Pops and malik are keepers.

[Slippy]

comeback.. :D

[Spurtacus]

I taped the game. Should I watch it?

[TheProfessor]

Pops is just unceasing energy and athleticism. We need him off the bench, defense be damned.

[smrattler]

Brown bringing in Wally now?!?!?!?!?

LOL!!!!

What a loser! Grows some balls. Pop would make those idiots close the game, even facing a loss.

[sexinthatsx]

dude if spurs put their starters back it looks as if we might be able to come back...

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol can the spurs win this game with 2min remainin lol they are only down 12atm

[tomtom]

very impressive play by our young guys, lose or not it was good to see

[Spurs Brazil]

Malik must take all Ime's minutes

[peskypesky]

like the old run and gun suns????

Barkley called it "sissy ball" last night. :lmao

[smrattler]

Ime!!! Nice foul (for no reason).

Hey, he missed the FT at least!

Pop teaching on the sidelines!

[Libri]

Malik another dunk!

[TDMVPDPOY]

dude if spurs put their starters back it looks as if we might be able to come back...

the starters that gave the cavs a 20pt lead? no thanks

[mVp]

I taped the game. Should I watch it?

Just the 4th... and don't look at the score lol

[ploto]

You do realize that Pops will get very little chance to play like he is tonight-- unless the Spurs are getting blown out again. It's fun but mostly meaningless for this season.

[Yorae]

So this is like...a d league team we have on the court.

[024]

LOL announcers just said "jacque vaughn is a proven NBA starter"

[peskypesky]

Another dunk by Hairston??? lol

Hairston and Pops having their own dunk contest

[Spurs Brazil]

Malik dunk again!!!

[Yorae]

Wally just said fun's over.

[smrattler]

Fuck you Wally!

[bbarry]

that 3 was the bullet....

[smrattler]

Pops to the line again!

[TDMVPDPOY]

the scubs on our team outscoing the starters hahaha

[Yorae]

I just want it to be down to single digit.

[Russ]

Pops may just be the missing piece of the Spurs puzzle. You can just see his aggressiveness......every time he gets the ball he wants to throw down...and he's got hustle...and he has the energy and hops to block shots too...

sure he's raw..and it'll take some time for him to master the Spurs' system, but from what i've seen on youtube and tonight, he's the first Spurs big man in a LONG time with beasting ability.

He shows some promise but I'd like to see more rebounding prowess.

[sexinthatsx]

man... wouldn't it be badass if pops pulls 13 points in 30 seconds just like tmac did to us? Sorry for bringing it up it was bad times

[Spur-Addict]

As a Spur fan, you must love this hustle.

[boutons_]

Hairston + Hill = Havoc in the press.

Wally hit the dagger

[Yorae]

Malik is good. No more ime i hope. I don't mean to be down on him.

[Josepatches_]

dude if spurs put their starters back it looks as if we might be able to come back...


No If the Cavs put their starters back too

[smrattler]

ESPN genius announcer: "Two impressive wins tonight.... as Detroit wins in Orlando in the first game. And the Cavs coming in to San Antonio..."

[tav1]

This is the most satisfying loss in quite awhile. I'm smitten.

[Yorae]

ESPN genius announcer: "Two impressive wins tonight.... as Detroit wins in Orlando in the first game. And the Cavs coming in to San Antonio..."

Fuck this assholes. Impressive????????

[smrattler]

Lol!

[FREEDOM]

hubie givin spurs props

[Budkin]

This is the most satisfying loss in quite awhile. I'm smitten.

Seriously... I feel the same way... you gotta feel good about this team after watching tonight.

[Spur-Addict]

Good hard foul.

[smrattler]

Hey Bonner, look at Pops, that's how you foul!

[Mavs<Spurs]

It's not the NBA Hall of Fame, but the Basketball Hall of Fame. Manu could retire tomorrow and be a lock into the HoF.

Manu hasn't even be an all-star the last several years. The last time he did make it, he was voted in by the coaches. 16 points a game and 4 rebounds and 4 assists a game won't get it done.

I love Manu, but we have to be honest.

Now, I know Manu's game is about so much more than numbers and there are all the intangibles that he brings to the table.

However, being MVP of the Italian league a couple of teams, being member of the Gold Medal Argentian team, being a player off the bench in 2003 of a team that won it all, making by coach's selection the all star team exactly once and being a key member of the 2005 NBA championship team, a supporting member of the 2007 NBA championship team and scoring 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game -- well that's probably not enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

Bruce was a starter for the 2003 and 2005 and 2007 teams that won it all.
Being a starter for a championship team isn't a strong argument for a person being in the Hall of Fame.

Being MVP of a league that is not equal in category to the NBA is also not a conclusive or convincing argument either.

The NBA is where the best basketball is played and that is not really debated. So, what has he done here. He hasn't made the starting team of the West ever for the All-Star team. And he only made it by coaching selection. The other years he didn't even make it at all.

So, in the NBA, he has not done much to show that he himself as an individual deserves to receive the individual recognition that the Hall of Fame provides.

I am a huge fan of Manu Ginobili. He's my second favorite Spur after Timmy.

But, I doubt that you will find many people who would agree that Manu is a lock for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has already done.

And that's not because I don't appreciate him -- he has been invaluable.

And without him, we might not have won several of our titles (although Tim is the main reason why we won all 4 titles-- even though Tony clearly deserved the 2007 Finals MVP trophy).

That's just my take.

[timtonymanu]

ESPN genius announcer: "Two impressive wins tonight.... as Detroit wins in Orlando in the first game. And the Cavs coming in to San Antonio..."

yeah they're causing a comeback sort of by Pops and Malik. that's impressive. Tim and Manu were absent.

[Yorae]

pops should be careful with his fouls.

[Spurtacus]

Just the 4th... and don't look at the score lol

I've seen the score...unfortunately. Guess I will watch the 4th for Pops.

[peskypesky]

He shows some promise but I'd like to see more rebounding prowess.

the dude has 6 rebounds in 11 minutes....pull your head out.

[mVp]

Fuck you Ime.

[FREEDOM]

Barkley called it "sissy ball" last night. :lmao

Barkley is the man.

[Jobbs]

Udoka is fucking TRASH

[weebo]

Udoka needs to retire now!!!

[MateoNeygro]

I swear I'd make more shots than Udoka has...

[ploto]

Dude needs to take his ass back to Serbia, cause he aint no NBA player!

Serbia? Wally was born in Spain while his dad (who played for George Washington University) was playing basketball for Real Madrid at the time.

[timtonymanu]

man Udoka that would have helped a little.

[TDMVPDPOY]

udoka fkn :(

[Darthkiller]

Manu hasn't even be an all-star the last several years. The last time he did make it, he was voted in by the coaches. 16 points a game and 4 rebounds and 4 assists a game won't get it done.

I love Manu, but we have to be honest.

Now, I know Manu's game is about so much more than numbers and there are all the intangibles that he brings to the table.

However, being MVP of the Italian league a couple of teams, being member of the Gold Medal Argentian team, being a player off the bench in 2003 of a team that won it all, making by coach's selection the all star team exactly once and being a key member of the 2005 NBA championship team, a supporting member of the 2007 NBA championship team and scoring 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game -- well that's probably not enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

Bruce was a starter for the 2003 and 2005 and 2007 teams that won it all.
Being a starter for a championship team isn't a strong argument for a person being in the Hall of Fame.

Being MVP of a league that is not equal in category to the NBA is also not a conclusive or convincing argument either.

The NBA is where the best basketball is played and that is not really debated. So, what has he done here. He hasn't made the starting team of the West ever for the All-Star team. And he only made it by coaching selection. The other years he didn't even make it at all.

So, in the NBA, he has not done much to show that he himself as an individual deserves to receive the individual recognition that the Hall of Fame provides.

I am a huge fan of Manu Ginobili. He's my second favorite Spur after Timmy.

But, I doubt that you will find many people who would agree that Manu is a lock for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has already done.

And that's not because I don't appreciate him -- he has been invaluable.

And without him, we might not have won several of our titles (although Tim is the main reason why we won all 4 titles-- even though Tony clearly deserved the 2007 Finals MVP trophy).

That's just my take.

manu's PER says otherwise.

[Chomag]

This should be Udoka's last game of the year...

[peskypesky]

"An impressive victory"??? Fuck Hubie Brown. Fucking dumb asshole.

[timtonymanu]

impressive? dominant?


fuck BSPN! they just wanted a reason to hate on the Spurs.

[tomtom]

that was an impressive run, at least they made it respectable

[Mavs<Spurs]

ESPN genius announcer: "Two impressive wins tonight.... as Detroit wins in Orlando in the first game. And the Cavs coming in to San Antonio..."

Not an impressive win when Tim Duncan isn't playing and Manu Ginobili isn't playing.

:bang

Giving Cavs way too much credit. If Tim and Manu had played and they won, then that's one thing.

But this, this game shows us nothing about Cavs (or makes us less impressed by them).

[smrattler]

how good are we that the Cavs got an "IMPRESSIVE" win and bounced back "in a BIG way tonight"... when we are throwing this bunch out there tonight?

[Yorae]

We lose. Why do i feel somehow good......

[ManuTP9]

good to see Pops get some playing time

[Danny.Zhu]

That's the hustle you haven't seen on Spurs for quite a long time.

[tomtom]

impressive? dominant?


fuck BSPN! they just wanted a reason to hate on the Spurs.

hope you'll be able to add bonsu to that sig of yours

[peskypesky]

Malik is good. No more ime i hope. I don't mean to be down on him.

I'm with you. I have nothing against Ime, but he just doesn't cut the mustard. He doesn't have it. He seems like a nice fellow, and a good team-mate, and I can tell he WANTS to contribute, but he just doesn't have the ability. Can't hate on a guy for that....but it's time to send him to the D-League.

[Mugen]

that was a fun fourth quarter.

good to know that our scrubs are better than the cavs scrubs.

also, the coaching gap between pop and mike brown is just insaaaaane.

[smrattler]

That was the most fun I've had in a blow out loss for the Spurs!

Pops was fun!

[Ice009]

Udoka wants a part of this now, showing them how it's done!!!

If "it" is getting his jumper stuffed in his *** again!

Malik should get ALL of Ime's minutes and some on Michael's. I think Malik has busted his ass when given the opportunity and he is a player that can take it to the rim which is scarce on this team.

I wonder how Bonsu could play with Tim? When Tim gets doubled could he pass it to Bonsu for dunks?

[peskypesky]

This is the most satisfying loss in quite awhile. I'm smitten.

:rollin
:toast

[ploto]

You can only play the team the opponent puts on the court.

[MarHill]

Not an impressive win when Tim Duncan isn't playing and Manu Ginobili isn't playing.

:bang

Giving Cavs way too much credit. If Tim and Manu had played and they won, then that's one thing.

But this, this game shows us nothing about Cavs (or makes us less impressed by them).

Mavs<Spurs,

You were right when you posted earlier that the Cavs would win by double digits. I think you wrote 100-84. Well, 97-86 was the final and the game was won in the 1st quarter when Lebron set the tempo.

The Cavs are too good to beat without the big 3!! The Spurs will get another shot at them in April!

Also, I like the fact that Hill, Vaughn, Hairston, and Mensah-Bonsu played better than the Cavs bench players in the 4th.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Malik should get all of Udoka's minutes for sure. I've wanted this for a while. Pops earned himself a closer look. I like his huthle, and the way how he fouls without giving up and-1's, which oberto is suscptible to.

[peskypesky]

I've seen the score...unfortunately. Guess I will watch the 4th for Pops.

and Malik

[smrattler]

You can only play the team the opponent puts on the court.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong!

[ducks]

You can only play the team the opponent puts on the court.

god you are smart

[Borosai]

That 4th quarter was fun to watch. PMB and Hairston playing aggressively and above the rim (yeah, it was deep benches going at it, but still good). Udoka can't play that badly against those players: deeper bench for him.

[MarHill]

Hairston and Pops looked solid tonight, Im all for starting Pops over Bonner, all Bonner can do is shoot, we can bring him off the bench. Look at Pops stat line!

C'mon now!

Bonner has played well and deserves to be on the court. He has developed a pull-up game and played adequate defense!

[Mavs<Spurs]

Conclusion:

Malik should get ALL of Ime's minutes and some of Michael's. I think Malik has busted his ass when given the opportunity and he is a player that can take it to the rim which is scarce on this team.

I wonder how Bonsu could play with Tim? When Tim gets doubled could he pass it to Bonsu for dunks?

Hairston and Pops looked solid tonight, Im all for starting Pops over Bonner, all Bonner can do is shoot, we can bring him off the bench. Look at Pops stat line



:flag:

Team's depth is in pretty good shape after all.

I don't feel bad at all about this game.

Actually, there's a lot of good things to take from this game .


Pops and Malik need more minutes.

Go Spurs!!!

:flag:

[tomtom]

Bonner does have a nasty cross over.:lol

LMAO that was awesome hope someone can make a gif of it

[peskypesky]

We lose. Why do i feel somehow good......

because we may have just seen the cavalry appearing on the horizon.

[MateoNeygro]

I taped the game. Should I watch it?

Just watch the 4th. It was fun to watch.

[Ice009]

Manu hasn't even be an all-star the last several years. The last time he did make it, he was voted in by the coaches. 16 points a game and 4 rebounds and 4 assists a game won't get it done.

I love Manu, but we have to be honest.

Now, I know Manu's game is about so much more than numbers and there are all the intangibles that he brings to the table.

However, being MVP of the Italian league a couple of teams, being member of the Gold Medal Argentian team, being a player off the bench in 2003 of a team that won it all, making by coach's selection the all star team exactly once and being a key member of the 2005 NBA championship team, a supporting member of the 2007 NBA championship team and scoring 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game -- well that's probably not enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

Bruce was a starter for the 2003 and 2005 and 2007 teams that won it all.
Being a starter for a championship team isn't a strong argument for a person being in the Hall of Fame.

Being MVP of a league that is not equal in category to the NBA is also not a conclusive or convincing argument either.

The NBA is where the best basketball is played and that is not really debated. So, what has he done here. He hasn't made the starting team of the West ever for the All-Star team. And he only made it by coaching selection. The other years he didn't even make it at all.

So, in the NBA, he has not done much to show that he himself as an individual deserves to receive the individual recognition that the Hall of Fame provides.

I am a huge fan of Manu Ginobili. He's my second favorite Spur after Timmy.

But, I doubt that you will find many people who would agree that Manu is a lock for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has already done.

And that's not because I don't appreciate him -- he has been invaluable.

And without him, we might not have won several of our titles (although Tim is the main reason why we won all 4 titles-- even though Tony clearly deserved the 2007 Finals MVP trophy).

That's just my take.

Manu should have made the All star team last season. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting. Don't give me that shit. Sorry to be harsh, but too many people are forgetting how good Manu was last season. All they remember is his last series against the Lakers. If Manu can get back to being healthy he is an incredible player.

[MateoNeygro]

Conclusion:

Malik should get ALL of Ime's minutes and some of Michael's. I think Malik has busted his ass when given the opportunity and he is a player that can take it to the rim which is scarce on this team.

I wonder how Bonsu could play with Tim? When Tim gets doubled could he pass it to Bonsu for dunks?

Hairston and Pops looked solid tonight, Im all for starting Pops over Bonner, all Bonner can do is shoot, we can bring him off the bench. Look at Pops stat line



:flag:

Team's depth is in pretty good shape after all.

I don't feel bad at all about this game.

Actually, there's a lot of good things to take from this game .


Pops and Malik need more minutes.

Go Spurs!!!

:flag:

Damn right never doubt a player named Malik!!

[Mavs<Spurs]

Just watch the 4th. It was fun to watch.

the second quarter was worth watching as well, imo.

[MarHill]

Bonner does have a nasty cross over.:lol

Yeah a very nasty crossover!!!

:lmao:lmao

[benefactor]

I agree with those that have said that this was one of the most enjoyable losses they have ever watched. Those were my exact thoughts as I turned the game off.

Honestly, I was expecting a loss. I knew that it would be incredibly difficult to duplicate the same type of play three games in a row against quality teams. Malik and Pops most certainly took the sting out of it with their energy and all out attack of the rim.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Damn right never doubt a player named Malik!!

This Malik for certain better than Nazr Mohammed -- LOL !

even though we won a ring in 2005 despite having Nazr on our team, having traded away our Malik.

[ploto]

Also, I like the fact that Hill, Vaughn, Hairston, and Mensah-Bonsu played better than the Cavs bench players in the 4th.

The Cavs were missing 2 players.

[ducks]

the cavs were missing 2 players.

no shit

[MarHill]

The Cavs were missing 2 players.

Yes I know they were missing 2 players!

Still it was their 12th, 13th, and 14th men against the Spurs' and I thought they played well!!

Let me enjoy something from this game!!! :lol

[Josepatches_]

Manu hasn't even be an all-star the last several years. The last time he did make it, he was voted in by the coaches. 16 points a game and 4 rebounds and 4 assists a game won't get it done.

I love Manu, but we have to be honest.

Now, I know Manu's game is about so much more than numbers and there are all the intangibles that he brings to the table.

However, being MVP of the Italian league a couple of teams, being member of the Gold Medal Argentian team, being a player off the bench in 2003 of a team that won it all, making by coach's selection the all star team exactly once and being a key member of the 2005 NBA championship team, a supporting member of the 2007 NBA championship team and scoring 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game -- well that's probably not enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

Bruce was a starter for the 2003 and 2005 and 2007 teams that won it all.
Being a starter for a championship team isn't a strong argument for a person being in the Hall of Fame.

Being MVP of a league that is not equal in category to the NBA is also not a conclusive or convincing argument either.

The NBA is where the best basketball is played and that is not really debated. So, what has he done here. He hasn't made the starting team of the West ever for the All-Star team. And he only made it by coaching selection. The other years he didn't even make it at all.

So, in the NBA, he has not done much to show that he himself as an individual deserves to receive the individual recognition that the Hall of Fame provides.

I am a huge fan of Manu Ginobili. He's my second favorite Spur after Timmy.

But, I doubt that you will find many people who would agree that Manu is a lock for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has already done.

And that's not because I don't appreciate him -- he has been invaluable.

And without him, we might not have won several of our titles (although Tim is the main reason why we won all 4 titles-- even though Tony clearly deserved the 2007 Finals MVP trophy).

That's just my take.

2001 Euroleague MVP Finals
2001 Won Euroleague
2002 All-Tournament Team FIBA World Championship
2002 Plate Medal FIBA World Championship
2004 Olympics games MVP
2004 Ideal Olympics Team JJOO
2004 Olympic Games Gold Medal
2006 All-Tournament Team FIBA World Championship
2008 Bronze Medal JJOO

Imo he could be very close if you add his NBA's career.
But if you think that easily he could be the best player of the history of Argentina and they usually have a place for international names then it's not very strange that Manu can be part of the hall of fame in the future.

[carina_gino20]

My comments in bold:


Manu hasn't even be an all-star the last several years. The last time he did make it, he was voted in by the coaches. 16 points a game and 4 rebounds and 4 assists a game won't get it done.

If the Hall of Fame only looked at recent accomplishments, many guys who retired very late in their careers wouldn't get in. Not being an All-Star the past few seasons doesn't discount any accomplishments he has achieved in the past. Plus, we know he should have been there last year. You also forget that he put up career numbers just last year. As it is, people only remember the last series against the Lakers.


Now, I know Manu's game is about so much more than numbers and there are all the intangibles that he brings to the table.

However, being MVP of the Italian league a couple of teams, being member of the Gold Medal Argentian team, being a player off the bench in 2003 of a team that won it all, making by coach's selection the all star team exactly once and being a key member of the 2005 NBA championship team, a supporting member of the 2007 NBA championship team (:lol )and scoring 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game -- well that's probably not enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

...


The NBA is where the best basketball is played and that is not really debated. So, what has he done here. He hasn't made the starting team of the West ever for the All-Star team. And he only made it by coaching selection. The other years he didn't even make it at all.

Because we know fans are incomparable judges of talent.


....

But, I doubt that you will find many people who would agree that Manu is a lock for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has already done.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101911&highlight=manu+ginobili+hall+fame


Ginobili would have been a lock if he never came to the NBA and retired in 2004.



Awards
Italian League All-Star: 1999, 2000, 2001
Italian League Most Improved Player: 2000, 2001, 2002
Euroleague Finals Most Valuable Player: 2001
FIBA Americas Championship Most Valuable Player: 2001
Italian Cup Most Valuable Player: 2002
NBA All-Star: 2005
All-Tournament Team, FIBA World Championship: 2002, 2006
Ideal Olympics Team: 2004
Summer Olympic Games Most Valuable Player: 2004
Olimpia de Oro: 2003, 2004 (shared with Carlos Tévez)
50 Greatest Euroleague Contributors: 2008
NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award: 2008
All-NBA Third Team: 2008

Titles
Italian League Championship: 2001
Italian Cup: 2001, 2002
Euroleague: 2001
Americas Championship: 2001
NBA Championship: 2003, 2005, 2007
Summer Olympic Games gold medal: 2004
Summer Olympic Games bronze medal: 2008

Looks like a lock to me.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Manu should have made the All star team last season. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting. Don't give me that shit. Sorry to be harsh, but too many people are forgetting how good Manu was last season. All they remember is his last series against the Lakers. If Manu can get back to being healthy he is an incredible player.

If Manu makes it, an awful lot of other just above average NBA players will also have to make it because they were so good that there wasn't any doubt about their selection. Say what you will about the process, the absolute standouts make the All Star and usually start.

Do we really want to go down this path? Look at the 2 guards that he is competing with in the West? Brandon Roy, Kobe Bryant, Jason Richardson, Tracy McGrady when healthy,Josh Howard, ...

If he is not clearly better than any one of these players, then how can he be a lock for the HOFer without them ? team results ? awards won outside of the NBA?

Point is that HOFers would not have left any doubt -- they are starters on the All-Star most years. The fact that he barely made it one year and didn't make it any other year means that most years a number of other players AT HIS POSITION are considered better than him.

Supposing that he is better than most of these other players, the fact that it is even up for debate about whether or not he is better than many of these players ends the argument. And most NBA fans will tell you that Brandon Roy, for example, is a better player than Manu Ginobili, certainly this year.

I could see Tim Duncan being possibly considered a top 10 in MVP voting, but Manu Ginobili ? That just doesn't make any sense. -Being considered as possibly the best player in the league last year? C'mon. Anybody who voted that he was better than Kobe Bryant or Chris Paul or LeBron James was obviously not being realistic-- it could only be a homer. So, since those votes were made by people who weren't exercising good judgment, they don't give evidence of anything.

After all, I would bet very few people who post here would think that it was rational to vote for Manu last year as the Most Valuable Player in the league. And if people here don't think it's rational, then the average NBA fan wouldn't either. So, it wasn't a rational vote. Therefore, it is not evidence of anything other that there are homers who don't vote rationally.



A HOFer should normally be a starter for the All-Star team. They should also have better than pedestrian numbers like 16 pts a game and 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game (which I am rounding up).


I haven't seen an honest argument to support the thesis that Manu is a lock for the hall of fame or even should make the Hall of Fame.

The Hall of Fame is only for the very best players of all time.

A player like Tim Duncan . first team all defense NBA every year for first 10 years, Two time MVP, Three Time Finals MVP, four time NBA champion, Rookie of year.

And there is no guess that he deserves it.

or Shaq.

or Chris Webber.

Or Gary Payton.

These guys were perennial all star starters.

Vince Carter.

David Robinson.

Kobe Bryant.

LeBron James.

Chris Paul.

Dirk Nowitzki.

DWade.

Steve Nash.

Dwight Howard.

Even players like Chris Bosh, Paul Pierce aren't locks and they are closer than Manu. Ray Allen probably makes it, but that's not a given either.

Kevin Garnett makes it.


These guys were all starters consistently over a significant period of time for the all star teams. They were the very best at their position and everyone knew it. At times, they showed that they were the best players or near the best in the entire NBA for all players.

A number of players who were all stars every year might not even deserve the honor.

And Manu had to have been so good that it would not have been possible to leave him off the All Star team. It should not have even been close. He needed to be the best at his position. Instead, in his own conference, four or five players were judged to better than him AT HIS OWN POSITION.


You have to be honest with yourself.

If Manu returns to Super Manu form and is a major factor in winning a championship and makes another all-star team or two, then he has a legitimate argument which is worth considering. At this point, he doesn't have a legitimate argument, imho.

[Spursmania]

I am so pissed, I forgot to set the DVR and I wanted to see the 4th, so I could check out Pops again. Yeah, we lost, but I don't feel to bad either. 2-3 wins aint' bad without our big 2. And, I didn't think Parker could have another great night, especially with Iggy in the interior.

[it's me]

Euro crap doesn't count for the WORLD H F

or something like this.....


belive me there is more than the NBA.

[Mavs<Spurs]

[QUOTE=Spursmania;3151046]I am so pissed, I forgot to set the DVR and I wanted to see the 4th, so I could check out Pops again. Yeah, we lost, but I don't feel to bad either. 2-3 wins aint' bad without our big 2. And, I didn't think Parker could have another great night, especially with Iggy in the interior.[/QUOTE/]

ESPN usually repeats their games late at night. So, you might be able to set your DVR for the replay (if they are doing it with this game).

Check and see.

[it's me]

Tony goes for 56 tonite....

man.....just 45 short..... what else, back to reality:depressed

[Spursmania]

Thanks,Mavs<Spurs!:toast

[Mavs<Spurs]

or something like this.....


belive me there is more than the NBA.



Didn't see anything about "Euro .." anything.


What I am saying is that the best basketball in the world is played in the NBA.

International awards are perhaps in some leagues like the Italian league slightly better than American colleges, but definitely less than the NBA in terms of talent.

In none of those three years would Manu have won anything in the NBA.

He was erratic and turnover prone and had to improve his game when he got into the NBA.


At this level of competition, he has been better than most, but not as good as many others, including others at his same position in the same time period.


Does anyone believe that the talent in the Italian league is the same as the talent in the NBA?

Or that the teams are as good in the Italian league as in the NBA?

The talent is not as good in the Italian league as it is in the NBA.
The teams are not as good in the Italian league as they are in the NBA.

Since the competition is lower, the awards mean less.


Unless he comes over and shows that he is the best player in the NBA also.

In which case, then one might consider that there is a parity in the leagues.

It turned out that the Manu who was good enough to be the very best player in the Italian league was not good enough to start for the NBA team, was turnover prone and not nearly good enough to be one of the numerous players who made the all star team for the Western Conference (ie he was only competing against half of the shooting guards in the league, not all of them).


Manu had to improve if he wanted to be a good player in the NBA, much less start for the Spurs and later make an all star team.

So, apparently, the talent that will make you the best player in the Italian league is mediocre when compared with the talent of the NBA.

Otherwise, he would not have needed to improve so much to start for an NBA team and become an all-star. We all know how Manu would make a spectacular play at one moment and turn the ball over the next.


So, everyone should be able to admit that he needed to dramatically improve. This demonstrates that the awards he won in the Italian league aren't proof that he is a HOFer quality since the winner of the MVP Italian league = mediocre in the NBA, up one minute and down the next.


So much for those awards as an argument that he is a lock for the HOF.


It is not insulting the European leagues. It is just recognizing that they are better than our college system and less than the NBA.

And had their been a best of seven series and a 3 + year commitment to the program (as there has been recently) and a uniformity regarding the rules, the U. S. would be consistent winners in international competition.

But none of this demeans the international game. It is just honest. And it is the consensus of opinion.

So, what has Manu done since he arrived in the NBA?


Did he prove that he was so good at this position that the only choice was to place him as a starter at the 2 guard in the Western Conference every year? No. Well he must have been so much better than every other 2 guard in the Western Conference at least one year that he was a starter? No.
Well, he must have at least been the 4 or 5 best 2 guard in the Western Conference every year so clearly that he always at least made the all star team every year even if he was only considered the 5th best 2 guard (his position) in the Western Conference? No?

Well, then he must average ridiculously high numbers like 25 points a game and 6 or 7 rebounds and 5 or 6 assists a game?

No.

I'm sorry, but why again are we sure that a guy who averages 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game is a lock for the Hall of Fame?

I wonder who else has those kinds of numbers ?

Because if I look them up, will you agree that they also deserve to be considered locks in the Hall of Fame?

:wow

:rollin


And again since he was only mediocre (inconsistent up and down) upon arrival, then mediocre and inconsistent up and down is good enough to win the MVP in the Italian league and that award doesn't have enough weight to serve as evidence that you are a lock for the Hall of Fame.


I love Manu, but he is on the outside looking in at this point.

He's got a lot of work to do to deserve consideration to enter the Hall of Fame.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Thanks,Mavs<Spurs!:toast

No worries.

If I missed a game with the DVR, then I rely on the replay too.

:toast

[it's me]

Didn't see anything about "Euro .." anything.


What I am saying is that the best basketball in the world is played in the NBA.

International awards are perhaps in some leagues like the Italian league slightly better than American colleges, but definitely less than the NBA in terms of talent.

In none of those three years would Manu have won anything in the NBA.

He was erratic and turnover prone and had to improve his game when he got into the NBA.


At this level of competition, he has been better than most, but not as good as many others, including others at his same position in the same time period.


Does anyone believe that the talent in the Italian league is the same as the talent in the NBA?

Or that the teams are as good in the Italian league as in the NBA?

The talent is not as good in the Italian league as it is in the NBA.
The teams are not as good in the Italian league as they are in the NBA.

Since the competition is lower, the awards mean less.


Unless he comes over and shows that he is the best player in the NBA also.

In which case, then one might consider that there is a parity in the leagues.

It turned out that the Manu who was good enough to be the very best player in the Italian league was not good enough to start for the NBA team, was turnover prone and not nearly good enough to be one of the numerous players who made the all star team for the Western Conference (ie he was only competing against half of the shooting guards in the league, not all of them).


Manu had to improve if he wanted to be a good player in the NBA, much less start for the Spurs and later make an all star team.

So, apparently, the talent that will make you the best player in the Italian league is mediocre when compared with the talent of the NBA.

Otherwise, he would not have needed to improve so much to start for an NBA team and become an all-star. We all know how Manu would make a spectacular play at one moment and turn the ball over the next.


So, everyone should be able to admit that he needed to dramatically improve. This demonstrates that the awards he won in the Italian league aren't proof that he is a HOFer quality since the winner of the MVP Italian league = mediocre in the NBA, up one minute and down the next.


So much for those awards as an argument that he is a lock for the HOF.


It is not insulting the European leagues. It is just recognizing that they are better than our college system and less than the NBA.

And had their been a best of seven series and a 3 + year commitment to the program (as there has been recently) and a uniformity regarding the rules, the U. S. would be consistent winners in international competition.

But none of this demeans the international game. It is just honest. And it is the consensus of opinion.

So, what has Manu done since he arrived in the NBA?


Did he prove that he was so good at this position that the only choice was to place him as a starter at the 2 guard in the Western Conference every year? No. Well he must have been so much better than every other 2 guard in the Western Conference at least one year that he was a starter? No.
Well, he must have at least been the 4 or 5 best 2 guard in the Western Conference every year so clearly that he always at least made the all star team every year even if he was only considered the 5th best 2 guard (his position) in the Western Conference? No?

Well, then he must average ridiculously high numbers like 25 points a game and 6 or 7 rebounds and 5 or 6 assists a game?

No.

I'm sorry, but why again are we sure that a guy who averages 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game is a lock for the Hall of Fame?

I wonder who else has those kinds of numbers ?

Because if I look them up, will you agree that they also deserve to be considered locks in the Hall of Fame?

:wow

:rollin


And again since he was only mediocre (inconsistent up and down) upon arrival, then mediocre and inconsistent up and down is good enough to win the MVP in the Italian league and that award doesn't have enough weight to serve as evidence that you are a lock for the Hall of Fame.


I love Manu, but he is on the outside looking in at this point.

He's got a lot of work to do to deserve consideration to enter the Hall of Fame.


I have to agree with you, Manu isn't that great.... but somehow he found a way to win in every stupid team he played ....got lucky... maybe

guess what Drazen Dalipagic is a Hall of Famer .... dude never played in the NBA...... he was better than Ginobili no doubt ....but ....get my point and try to get out of the box ..... there is a world outside.

[mystargtr34]

Manu is a HOFer, garaunteed.

[Ice009]

Manu's regarded as a top three SG in the NBA by a lot of people. Kobe, Wade, Manu.

Who gives a fuck about the all star game. A lot of times players make it on numbers when a better player is left off. Almost 50% of the team is voted in and it usually is more of a popularity contest.

[Ice009]

I have to agree with you, Manu isn't that great.... but somehow he found a way to win in every stupid team he played ....got lucky... maybe

guess what Drazen Dalipagic is a Hall of Famer .... dude never played in the NBA...... he was better than Ginobili no doubt ....but ....get my point and try to get out of the box ..... there is a world outside.

Are you serious?

[TMTTRIO]

Whether you want to accept it or not Manu's probably a lock for the HOF. Like people keep telling you it's not just NBA but it also internationl players too. There are a lot of international people who have made the HOF that have never even seen the NBA. Second Manu's accomplishments are pretty impressive and has won everywhere he's been. Even before he got into the NBA he was a major player on his NT that ended being one of the first international teams to beat the USA team composed of NBA players. I haven't even mentioned the Olympics were they were the first team other than the US to win a gold medal in the past several years. Yes Manu really hasn't had that much individual accomplishments in the NBA but he's a winner everywhere he goes. I know that people overrate him a lot but at the same time I feel that they underrate him. I hear from some NBA boards is that all he is is a bench player who can only average 14 or 15 points a game. Maybe on the Spurs that's the case because he has a role here but on a lot of other teams he would be a starter and give him more than the nine or ten shots he takes plus minutes he would probably average more points. Of course now that he's getting older he probably can't. Yes he hasn't made the AS team but he made it onto the All-NBA Third team which I would think is more impressive than AS. Plus he was a pretty huge reason why we won the '05 Championship even though he got no recognition for that. Of course Timmy deserved the Finals MVP and we couldn't have done it without him but we couldn't have done it without Manu too. Luckily for us Manu doesn't care about his reputation and what he gets out of it but just wants to win. There's a reason why he's won something on every team he's been a part of.

[TampaDude]

We lose. Why do i feel somehow good......

Because we hung with the red-hot Cavs even though Timmy and Manu were out. I'm not too bummed about this loss. If the Spurs were at full strength, they likely would've won this game.

[urunobili]

Malik should get all of Udoka's minutes for sure. I've wanted this for a while. Pops earned himself a closer look. I like his huthle, and the way how he fouls without giving up and-1's, which oberto is suscptible to.

+1

It was pathetic how bad he played (Udoka) in the first half... Time to give the ball tot he rook...

[urunobili]

for the LATAM posters... ESPN is re broadcasting the game right now...

[djohn2oo8]

Who are you to talk shit after your team went to overtime with the THUNDER!!!!:lmao:lmao:rollin:rollin:lmao

[Rogue]

Mark Jackson is a worse commentator than he was a player
better than you as a person though

[Rogue]

He will, the question is whether or not Lebron will, since he limped his way off the court :downspin:
your words still didn't make any more sense than those you quoted.

[Obstructed_View]

I've never been so encouraged about a Spurs loss in my entire life. Nice to get blown out in order to get some good burn for their young guys. The Spurs' future looks bright for the next several years based on the young talent they're developing.

[spurs girl21]

i didnt see that game what happened?

[benefactor]

i didnt see that game what happened?
There is 28 pages that will let you know. Start reading.

[SpursDynasty]

I think Cleveland showed a lack of class last night.

We have two of our three best players out of the game, and they want to play LeBron 30 minutes, have him take 23 shots and score 30 points.

[td4mvp21]

If Pop wouldn't have fucking put Udoka and Finley on James the entire game we probably could have won. I'm pissed about that. James might have still made some of the shots he did but I guarantee you he wouldn't have been as wide open as he was for the 3 three pointers he made if Bowen was on him.

[Manufan909]

So the blocks that Hairston and Bonner had on Lebron, did they count, or did the shit zebras call shooting fouls on one or both?

[HarlemHeat37]

they didn't call anything when Hairston was guarding Lebron..he played him very, very well..

I'm surprised Bowen didn't guard Lebron at all though..I guess Pop wasn't trying to show his hand in the regular season, as usual..

[Obstructed_View]

I actually thought Pop overcoached again and played around too much with the lineups in the first quarter. It's a chicken/egg situation though, since they were falling behind quickly with Parker struggling. Seeing Udoka that early was probably his last chance to get meaningful minutes this season, and ended up being kind of a white flag on the game. Hairston has done nothing but show me he's already an above average individual defender in the NBA. I expect him to get a lot more non-garbage time going forward.

[HarlemHeat37]

that's the feeling I got with Pop playing Ime too..that looked like his last game playing meaningful minutes as a Spur..Hairston outplayed him against the same competition..

[Obstructed_View]

Hairston held his own against the best player in the NBA who was LOOKING to score on him several times in a row. That's pretty damn big.

[Ice009]

that's the feeling I got with Pop playing Ime too..that looked like his last game playing meaningful minutes as a Spur..Hairston outplayed him against the same competition..

Well I hope you are right. Malik played hard again last night.

I still really like Ime cause he's a good guy, but I would like to see Malik take his minutes and see what he can do with them.

I love Malik's ability to put the ball on the floor and drive it to the rack.

[Obstructed_View]

There is 28 pages that will let you know. Start reading.

That makes me :lol every time I scroll past it.

[mystargtr34]

I've never been so encouraged about a Spurs loss in my entire life. Nice to get blown out in order to get some good burn for their young guys. The Spurs' future looks bright for the next several years based on the young talent they're developing.

Likewise. For all the talk about the Spurs future, or lackthereof, they have some serious talent and potential waiting in the wings. Obviously its naive to think theyre all going to pan out and become stars, or solid rotation players for that matter, but theres alot to look forwaard to.

George Hill
Ian Mahinmi
Malik Hairston
Pops Mensah-Bonsu
James Gist

Then you got a 23 year old who is already the best player in Europe, and who i think could be the best of the bunch, Tiago Splitter.

Like i said, you cant expect them all to pan out, but thats some strong talent.

[Spursmania]

Who are you to talk shit after your team went to overtime with the THUNDER!!!!:lmao:lmao:rollin:rollin:lmao

Didn't Houston choke away a 17 point lead to the Bulls tonight?
:p:

[urunobili]

Hairston held his own against the best player in the NBA who was LOOKING to score on him several times in a row. That's pretty damn big.

+1 :toast

[Manufan909]

they didn't call anything when Hairston was guarding Lebron..he played him very, very well..

I'm surprised Bowen didn't guard Lebron at all though..I guess Pop wasn't trying to show his hand in the regular season, as usual..

Damn, Bonner gets no love, he didn't get the block when he stuffed Dirk, and now he gats called for an s foul off a clean block. I hope I live to see the day where robots ref the NBA, robots that don't put years played, time in the game, ability, or anything like that into account, if it's a foul, IT'S A GODDAMN FOUL.

[rascal]

Mavs< Spurs

Good analysis on Manu. I've been telling these homers they are over rating him.