Congragulations to LA, San Antonio, Boston and Cleveland

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

All four of these fan bases are blessed with players (Bryant, Gasol, Duncan, Ginobili, KG, Pierce, LeBron) who are willing to sacrifice all the fun in the world if it means increasing their team's chances at winning a title.

One day, maybe us Suns fans will be blessed with one of these players, rather than a group of lazy fucks who are willing to sacrifice whatever chance their team had at winning a title if it means having more fun.

What a bunch of fuckin self-centered primmadonnas we have playing in Phoenix. For all the times I've called Kobe selfish, at least he has the brains to know the fans who us their money to buy tickets (the money that pays his salary), want to see the Lakers win a title, they could give a rat's ass about how much fun the team is having.

Apparently Steve Nash thinks that when fans buy tickets knowing they're paying his salary, they only care about him having fun and not trying to get the Suns hardware. I thought Kobe was selfish, Nash is the most self-absorbed piece of scum in the NBA. Now everyone on this team thinks they don't have to play defense because their 2-time MVP who all the fans seem to worship doesn't play defense.

I don't hear Spurs fans and Laker fans arguing about which team has more fun, last I checked.

[YellowFever]

What brought this on?

Did Nash make one of his 'we're not having as much fun as we used to.." comments again?

Any specific reason?

[BlackSwordsMan]

I thought going back to the run n gun would solve all the suns problems

[ginobili's bald spot]

I always thought winning and being the best WAS fun. To each his own I guess.

[Ghazi]

Blame the front office, not Nash.

[Ghazi]

You are completely righ DoK, but I wouldnt put James in that bunch. You will see how loyal and greedy he is in 2010. If he cant be the best player he will definitely be the highest payed player.

Cavs fans no nothing about winning anything so your post went over their heads, but I seriously feel your pain. Phoenix fans were willing to pull their own teeth to support their team to win a title, but it seems that management and the players took for granted the whole idea you guys were coming to games... to see the team win a title right?

Steve Kerr is a cocksucker of the highest degree and made Porter his scapegoat. The idea that so many players slipped through the hands of the Suns is rediculous. I guess now you guys understand our repsect for Kobe. He was castrated by PJ and Shaq in books, media and youtube vids. He was booed on opening day for wanting to be traded to a team that was trying to win a title, and he still stuck with the team and their plans.

All the while, Lakers fans demanded better, and you guys should too.

You're right. YOU had a part in the Gasol trade :king

[Banzai]

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10176/Jaws_and_Jackson_stare.gif (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10176/Jaws_and_Jackson_stare.gif)

[sprrs]

In the Suns defense, some of their fans did actually care more about having fun than winning a championship. At least that's what they said when trying to bash the Spurs.

[Killakobe81]

Let me say this nash though a great offensive talent one of the best dribblers/passers of the past 20 years he is no MVP ...if you go back to all the MVP's the past 30 years he is the WORST defender of all ...
Even though Bird, Magic and Dirk are far from premier defenders ...I have seen teams specifically go "at" Nash as the weak spot on the team even during the MVP years ...Simmons even wrote about this on Page 2 (and i think though funny simmons can be foolish ...but he had a point) what other MVP gives up much more points than has scored against him? he cant stop penetration(parker abuses him), he can be posted up at will his ...his 2 MVp awards should of went to kobe and Lebron ...
And even though he is great at steals and fiestier than nash ...CP3 is almost in the same category ...
People get "wet" or "stiff" looking at his stats but in the playoffs Parker and dwill can both exploit him on defense ...Parkers is not a great defender either but because they have Bowen if he is getting torched they can use parker as a helper...but even so he is no where as bad as Nash Pop would not "let him" get away with such bad defense ...(by the way Pop is the best coach even over PJ)

CP3 is great on offense and at steals but he is overrated as well ...

[Many PackYao]

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10176/Jaws_and_Jackson_stare.gif (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10176/Jaws_and_Jackson_stare.gif)
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:rollin

[Killakobe81]

Of course I did Ghazi. Have you ever owned season tickets? Do you know how much they cost at Staples? Lakers fans are more fickle than any other fans in all of sports.. trust me!!! When the Lakers arent winning, shit is bad in LA. The fans dominate the airwaves in LA. Ask the average LA fan what other sports news happened the summer when Kobe asked to be traded. They dont know. We hold this team accountable, and if they dont put stars on the floor, we dont cheer, or support. Shit, we barely cheer when there are stars on the floor. We come to games late, but the bottom line is we support where it counts... tickets sales and buying of merchandise.

We are fortunate that we have a owner that shares the viewpoint of the fans and is willing to do what it takes to win titles, but believe me when I say it starts with the fans.

I lived in La for 20 years we always support the lakers but ...Laker games are too expensive to go to when we suck ...but if you listen to sports talk, read the papers or just talk to people around town many bleed purple (forum blue) and gold.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What brought this on?

Did Nash make one of his 'we're not having as much fun as we used to.." comments again?

Any specific reason?

Yesterday's ass raping is what brought this on. I didn't expect them to win, but I expected them to try and win. For what J-Rich's overpaid ass is getting maybe he could try using his 15-20 pound weight advantage on Kobe to keep Kobe out of the paint?

Anyone with a brain could look at that Suns team last night and know they not only didn't try to win they didn't even try to us the fact their playing a contender as a means to work on stuff during the game, such as not letting the other team shoot 60%.

And it's just my personal view that the culture this team has where getting back on offense is more important than stopping the other team on defense starts and ends with Nash and the amount of Steve Nash T-baggers in Phoenix who didn't know what the NBA was prior to 2004.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I thought going back to the run n gun would solve all the suns problems

Well it depends. My "problem" is the Suns aren't winning a championship anytime soon. The idiots' who jizz in their pants at the site of an Amare garbage time 4th quarter dunk "problem" is that the Suns weren't "fun" to watch under Porter. If that was your problem, then going back to the run and suck solves it.

[Killakobe81]

Well it depends. My "problem" is the Suns aren't winning a championship anytime soon. The idiots' who jizz in their pants at the site of an Amare garbage time 4th quarter dunk "problem" is that the Suns weren't "fun" to watch under Porter. If that was your problem, then going back to the run and suck solves it.

I agree I always have felt with teams that mediocre is the worst place to be ...for example the years we played Phoenix I said hey lets go in to the lottery we were not going to win the title with smush walton and brown starting and although we put a scare in Phoenix we had no business in the playoffs ...why would this suns team want that? This draft may suck but who tought rondo would become a pretty strong PG? draft well there are always hidden gems ...if you wre not top 4 in the league blow it up and start over or identify core pieces and jettison the crap ...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You're right. YOU had a part in the Gasol trade :king

For all the crap I give to LA fans who refer to their team in 1st person, the fans DO play a role in what moves the team makes. The amount of idiots who bought into the notion that the 2007 Suns were the best team that year and therefore it was smart for them to not improve the team at all the following off season is the reason they didn't make any moves to improve in the off season.

[Xylus]

I have no problem with the Suns reverting back to their run and gun style. You have to play to your strengths, and if it helps them win games and sneak into the playoffs, I'm all for it. But I don't understand why the Suns can't seem to play great offense and at least a modicum of defense. I mean, there was no resistance against the Lakers last night, or Boston on Sunday. Layup after layup after layup, uncontested.

The offense is wonderful, but the defense was never close to being this bad under D'Antoni. Maybe he was a better coach than most of us thought, since he had horrible defensive players playing mediocre defense.

[Xylus]

For all the crap I give to LA fans who refer to their team in 1st person, the fans DO play a role in what moves the team makes. The amount of idiots who bought into the notion that the 2007 Suns were the best team that year and therefore it was smart for them to not improve the team at all the following off season is the reason they didn't make any moves to improve in the off season.

The Suns did make moves in that offseason: They traded away Kurt Thomas and a pair of draft picks, and as a result became much worse.

[Killakobe81]

I have no problem with the Suns reverting back to their run and gun style. You have to play to your strengths, and if it helps them win games and sneak into the playoffs, I'm all for it. But I don't understand why the Suns can't seem to play great offense and at least a modicum of defense. I mean, there was no resistance against the Lakers last night, or Boston on Sunday. Layup after layup after layup, uncontested.

But bell was your best defender and Diaw was decent on defense ...

To be fair to porter/Gentry this is the worst defensive team of the last 6 Suns team at least ...

The offense is wonderful, but the defense was never close to being this bad under D'Antoni. Maybe he was a better coach than most of us thought, since he had horrible defensive players playing mediocre defense.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The offense is wonderful, but the defense was never close to being this bad under D'Antoni. Maybe he was a better coach than most of us thought, since he had horrible defensive players playing mediocre defense.

He had Marion which enabled him to create a defensive system that worked great in the regular season. He also had Bell before Bell stopped caring because "he wasn't having fun".

[Ghazi]

I don't get the "mediocrity is unacceptable" statement.

First off, mediocrity is better than flat out sucking.

Second off, there HAS to be mediocre teams in the league. It's not as if every team can be really good or really bad.

There has to be a 30th best team in the league, has to be a 1st best team in the league, and there has to be an 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th (mediocre) best, etc

There's elite teams, good teams, mediocre teams, bad teams, and REALLY bad teams... every franchise finds themselves in every situation at some point, just the cyclical nature of the league.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The Suns did make moves in that offseason: They traded away Kurt Thomas and a pair of draft picks, and as a result became much worse.

Yep, and the 2004 bandwagoners didn't seem to care about the fact the KT trade threw any shot the Suns had at contention away. They didn't care because when the only basketball you've ever watched is Steve Nash run and suck you don't understand how important a guy like KT is.

[Xylus]

This is why I hate Sarver. He doesn't understand that a team has to be more than a sum of its parts, and he's created a team that is less than the sum of its parts.

I can forgive the Joe Johnson thing, but I see no sense in letting go of several key role players: Marion, Bell, Kurt Thomas, Eddie House, Diaw... You already have two extremely talented offensive players in Nash and Amare. So the idea should be that you surround them with solid role players who can play D, shoot the 3, rebound, or a combination of those things.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I don't get the "mediocrity is unacceptable" statement.

First off, mediocrity is better than flat out sucking.

Second off, there HAS to be mediocre teams in the league. It's not as if every team can be really good or really bad.

There has to be a 30th best team in the league, has to be a 1st best team in the league, and there has to be an 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th (mediocre) best, etc

There's elite teams, good teams, mediocre teams, bad teams, and REALLY bad teams... every franchise finds themselves in every situation at some point, just the cyclical nature of the league.

The Suns have been in that 11th, 12th, 13th, and 14th spot for the greater part of 40 years. Being mediocre for a short period and then either making a miracle trade or blowing it up is one thing, doing whatever it takes to hold onto that 6 seed like Colangelo loved to do and what Sarver seems to love to do is completely different.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You already have two extremely talented offensive players in Nash and Amare. So the idea should be that you surround them with solid role players who can play D, shoot the 3, rebound, or a combination of those things.

They should have never signed Nash and gone to some cock wad unorthodox system. After the Marbury trade, they had cap room, a young centerpiece who had yet to be convinced playing defense isn't necessary, and draft picks.

No team with Steve Nash as a captain will ever win a championship. The captain of a team should be a leader (not a liability) on both sides of the court.

[LockBeard]

A lot of it has to do with the system and tolerance (lack there of :bking) the FO has.

S.A. is second to none. That's why they can stay on top for a decade.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

A lot of it has to do with the system and tolerance (lack there of :bking) the FO has.

The F.O. in Phoenix has an incredibly high tolerance for losing, especially to San Antonio. I'll even go as far as to say they enjoy losing to San Antonio.

Trading away Kurt Thomas after how the 2007 series unfolded would be the equivalent of getting your ass kicked by superman and then getting rid of any Kryptonite you have knowing you would have to face him again and you couldn't beat him with the assistance of Kryptonite.

[Ghazi]

They should have never signed Nash and gone to some cock wad unorthodox system. After the Marbury trade, they had cap room, a young centerpiece who had yet to be convinced playing defense isn't necessary, and draft picks.

No team with Steve Nash as a captain will ever win a championship. The captain of a team should be a leader (not a liability) on both sides of the court.


It's easy to say that now, but if not for bullshit technicalities who knows how 2007 turns out.

And if not for the lost draft picks and JJ, who knows whether or not a team, with Steve Nash as its captain, could've won a title.


<3 Nash.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's easy to say that now, but if not for bullshit technicalities who knows how 2007 turns out.


Look at the Sun's bench and the Spur's bench at the time of that altercation. One team had a coach who had prepared for the situation and held his players accountable, so the players stood completely still and no one got up.

The other team had coach who probably didn't even know the rule existed, didn't hold his players accountable at all, and was completely unprepared for this situation; consequently, the players all immediately stood up and looked over at what was going on, and the assistant coaches were running around like chickens with their heads chopped off trying to control the situation.

Take a wild guess which coach also made Steve Nash a captain disregarding his lack of leadership on defense.

So basically, Nash being captain of a team where two players got an easily avoidable suspension aren't two completely unrelated events.

[Ghazi]

Look at the Sun's bench and the Spur's bench at the time of that altercation. One team had a coach who had prepared for the situation and held his players accountable, so the players stood completely still and no one got up.

The other team had coach who probably didn't even know the rule existed, didn't hold his players accountable at all, and was completely unprepared for this situation; consequently, the players all immediately stood up and looked over at what was going on, and the assistant coaches were running around like chickens with their heads chopped off trying to control the situation.

Take a wild guess which coach also made Steve Nash a captain disregarding his lack of leadership on defense.

So basically, Nash being captain of a team where two players got an easily avoidable suspension aren't two completely unrelated events.

So what you're telling me is Horry being a dirty punk and Amare wanting to stick up for his fallen beloved PG is a reflection on Nash's lack of leadership?

Ain't buying it AIN'T buying it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

So what you're telling me is Horry being a dirty punk and Amare wanting to stick up for his fallen beloved PG is a reflection on Nash's lack of leadership?

Ain't buying it AIN'T buying it.

No, please read my post before saying stuff like that. They are both reflections of a piss poor coaching staff that will never win a title. Of course Amare would want to stick up for Nash, but if that situation had been practiced throughout the year Amare would know he couldn't stick up for Nash.

Just like how if the coaching staff picked a captain who was a leader on offense and defense, the Suns might have been a good defensive team.

[Ghazi]

It's easy to say that coaching staff "will never win a title". hindsight is 20/20

Just like after the beloved Mavs were cheated out of a 2006 championship, now people will call Dirk a soft choker who can't lead a team to a championship, when if not for bullshit shots and horseshit officiating, he did in 2006.

It's all hindsight. Teams always get ascribed toughness and leadership after they win championships, hardly ever before.

As for the Suns, if not for bullshit technicalities and a cheap owner, perhaps the D'Antoni/Nash Suns could've won a ring as well.


What's wrong with beloved Nash anyway? Not everyone can be a great defender, some people just lack the physical tools. At least he tries his hardest and draws a foul via flopping here and there.

Nash was indeed worthy of his MVP's.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What's wrong with beloved Nash anyway? Not everyone can be a great defender, some people just lack the physical tools. At least he tries his hardest and draws a foul via flopping here and there.

He plays defense like a 5 year old with ADD. Rather than guard a single player, he runs around and ball hawks because in his little fucktard offense only mind letting them score a quick basket is better than holding them scoreless on a 20 second possession because it "slows down the tempo".

if he just guarded his man to the best of his ability rather than constantly make other players switch because he leaves someone open on every possession, I wouldn't fault him for whatever D he played.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's easy to say that coaching staff "will never win a title". hindsight is 20/20

Just like after the beloved Mavs were cheated out of a 2006 championship, now people will call Dirk a soft choker who can't lead a team to a championship, when if not for bullshit shots and horseshit officiating, he did in 2006.

It's all hindsight. Teams always get ascribed toughness and leadership after they win championships, hardly ever before.

As for the Suns, if not for bullshit technicalities and a cheap owner, perhaps the D'Antoni/Nash Suns could've won a ring as well.


What's wrong with beloved Nash anyway? Not everyone can be a great defender, some people just lack the physical tools. At least he tries his hardest and draws a foul via flopping here and there.

Nash was indeed worthy of his MVP's.

Don't tell me it's hindsight, I've been saying D'antoni will never win a championship since 2005.

[Xylus]

They should have never signed Nash and gone to some cock wad unorthodox system. After the Marbury trade, they had cap room, a young centerpiece who had yet to be convinced playing defense isn't necessary, and draft picks.

No team with Steve Nash as a captain will ever win a championship. The captain of a team should be a leader (not a liability) on both sides of the court.

Steve Nash took the Suns farther during the 2004-2007 era than I ever expected the team to go before he got here. Steve Nash is a flawed player, but he did take us to the WCF twice, and we probably would have won the championship in '07 if we had gotten by San Antonio. We weren't the best, but we were awfully close. I think that's admirable.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Steve Nash took the Suns farther during the 2004-2007 era than I ever expected the team to go before he got here. Steve Nash is a flawed player, but he did take us to the WCF twice, and we probably would have won the championship in '07 if we had gotten by San Antonio. We weren't the best, but we were awfully close. I think that's admirable.

Not giving the new coach a chance and bitching about having to actually work at something other than pushing the ball down the court is anything but admirable.

We all know in sports, the question is "What have you done for me lately?" and Nash hasn't done jack-shit since 2007.

[pauls931]

This is why I hate Sarver. He doesn't understand that a team has to be more than a sum of its parts, and he's created a team that is less than the sum of its parts.

I can forgive the Joe Johnson thing, but I see no sense in letting go of several key role players: Marion, Bell, Kurt Thomas, Eddie House, Diaw... You already have two extremely talented offensive players in Nash and Amare. So the idea should be that you surround them with solid role players who can play D, shoot the 3, rebound, or a combination of those things.

I agree here, their 3pt shooting is dramatically worse than in the past and with the current personel can't take advantage of shaq. Richardson helps, barbosa is very streaky and can't really be counted on, and then there's nash, there should be a couple other sharp shooters on the squad. Then you need a pair of good defensive players, obviously sideshow bob falls short.

And then dragic... Man he looks scared as hell every time I see him on the court, I hope he gets over this...

I accept that they can't be contenders, but somehow sarver/kerr have definitely made the sum less than the parts here.

But just one note, I think the Spurs and Lakers caused management to panic leading to this... The suns were always just barely not good enough to get by the Spurs, then the Gasol trade happen and I think that's when Phoenix and Dallas management panicked and fucked themselves.

[iggypop123]

sacrafice? hill resigned here even though the lakers were the better team and would have loved to bring him in. and for less cash too