Barry is worthless

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Basically Steve Smith.......

Time for Devin to get his minutes- ALL HIS MINUTES.

It's official, the honeymoon is over, I want rid of him.

[ducks]

if he fails to produce in postseason I bet spurs try to trade him
beno is a solid point guard

[ShoogarBear]

Must . . . resist . . . urge . . . to . . . agree . . . with . . . Walton

[Jimcs50]

Wilkes has earned some PT, I will tell you that.

He and TP make a good backcourt pair.

[boutons]

Fuck Barry. He just can't do shit. Can't shoot jumpers, can't create his own shot, etc, etc. and when he got all the minutes he needed, he no showed.

what huge fucking disappointment.

[Experiment2100]

So QRichardson just concussioned himself?

[T Park]

Barry makes Hedo look fantastic.

Nice move Spurs.

[timvp]

Brent Barry is a disgrace. I can't believe how shook he plays.

The Spurs should have signed Jon Barry.

For real.

[T Park]

Brent Barry = Carl Herrera.


But TIMVP Barry's bad play is due to Pop though, dont you know.

[Kori Ellis]

I cussed out Brent Barry all through the second half.

He isn't bringing ANYTHING to this Spurs team right now. I keep praying that he's going to just turn the corner any second and start shooting fearless and deadly. It's not happening. And his stand-around defense is infuriating. :(

[ShoogarBear]

Fact: even a mediocre game by Barry wins this game.

[Manu20]

I had high hopes for Barry but he has been dissapointing thus far this season. :depressed

At the start of the season I thought Barry's field goal% will be around 48 to 49% and 46 to 47% from 3 point range.

[timvp]

I'm willing to trade him for either Jon, Scooter or Drew Barry. Or even Drew Barrymore.

[ShoogarBear]

Or Halle Barry.

[timvp]

Barry White. Barry Manilow. Barry Bonds.

A Mulberry Bush.

All good deals.

[Quasar]

I must say I'm quite disappointed as well in him so far. I've been looking at all boxscores after everygames, hoping that he will somehow have turned the corner and producing something, but it seems he still ain't comfortable.

If he were playing at least at an average level, the spurs are almost guaranteed a spot. But with the way it's going, looks like we're gonna have a Steve Smith redux...

Is he thinking too much? What's wrong with him? Almost no assists, no shooting touch, what happened to the Brent Barry that used to play for Seattle?

But we have to keep the faith. He's done it in the previous phoenix game, and a few other times. It's possible that when everything is on the line, he'll be back to his previous game-winning self.

Hopefully...

[ShoogarBear]

Or Joe Barry Caroll.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Watch Barry shoot. He's trying to get back on defense before the ball is even all the way out of his hands.

Unfortunate byproduct of the system.

:(

[timvp]

Why make excuses for him, Aggie? He's playing for a winning team for the first time in his life and can't handle the pressure. It's the same thing we saw with Hedo. Some players are meant to be on championship teams, whiles other players are meant to put up good stats on average teams.

Congrats, Pop and RC. You found an older version of Hedo who plays horrible defense to boot.

Sweet.

:shootme

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm probably more disappointed in his play than anyone.

I've watched him with interest all year. Since that whole late fall "your ass sits on the bench til' you start playing defense" episode, Barry doesn't follow through on his shot at all.

Watch him shoot. As soon as it's out of his hands, he's turning to go back on defense. Not gonna make many if he doesn't at least follow through on his shot.

Not an excuse, just basketball mechanics 101.

[san antonio spurs]

I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm probably more disappointed in his play than anyone.

I've watched him with interest all year. Since that whole late fall "your ass sits on the bench til' you start playing defense" episode, Barry doesn't follow through on his shot at all.

Watch him shoot. As soon as it's out of his hands, he's turning to go back on defense. Not gonna make many if he doesn't at least follow through on his shot.

Not an excuse, just basketball mechanics 101.
nonsense.
barry shooting is not at all why I'm kinda worried,
if dude can't handle pop pressure, or regular seasons pressure, how about playoffs?
if he's afraid to make mistakes now,how about in june???
we know he's got skills and high basketball IQ, now it's time to use them.
________
COLORADO MARIJUANA DISPENSARY (http://colorado.dispensaries.org/)

[Rick Von Braun]

Today was the first time I really thought he was useless out there. I have not given up on him...


























yet http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smidepressed.gif

[IcemanCometh]

hate to say i told you so

[milkyway21]

I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm probably more disappointed in his play than anyone.

I've watched him with interest all year. Since that whole late fall "your ass sits on the bench til' you start playing defense" episode, Barry doesn't follow through on his shot at all.

Watch him shoot. As soon as it's out of his hands, he's turning to go back on defense. Not gonna make many if he doesn't at least follow through on his shot.

Not an excuse, just basketball mechanics 101.me, too! I rally behind him for that extra minutes thinking he could upgrade his stat. so far, it's been a disappointing Barry play for me. He shld be MORe agressive. I noticed he has reduced numbers of attemps lately:cry.

[GrandeDavid]

Well at least he's good at PS2 and cracking the occasional locker room joke, so I hear. He's also quotable. Hey, he's got value!

[Emeyin]

I still have faith in him.. He'll pull through, mark my words.

[TwoHandJam]

Barry is not playing well to be sure but I don't buy the fact that it's all on him. As I said in the other Barry thread, I think some of the blame has to go on Pop's somewhat inflexible "system" and his ability to integrate new players into it.

There's just a lot of mounting evidence lately. Barry, Hedo, Daniels, Ward. How many guys need to fail in his system yet thrive in others before we at least question the system and the integration process?

Some just chalk it up to the pressure of being on a championship team but I think that's too broad a stroke to account for a full 9% drop in fg% in Barry's case for example. Guys just don't fall off a cliff like that without a better reason.

Barry's defense is never going to be stellar but the guy can play. Pop just needs to find out how to use him. And that doesn't just mean play him 37 minutes and hope he'll breakout.

Run a couple of plays for the guy. Jesus the guy shot 50% last year. 50%. Only a handful of guards have ever done that in their careers and he's done it twice. He should be deadly on a screen-and-shoot with the midrange J a la Ray Allen but how come I never see that run for him? Why is he pigeonholed into becoming a stand-and-shoot 3pt guy in Pop's system like Steve Smith? He's better than that.

AHF has a point. I have seen him become tentative because of Pop's wrath to play D and it's definitely affecting his game. D is not his strong point and never will be. Pop knew this when he signed him so he should try and play more to his strengths instead of trying to whip him into becoming someone he's not.

Again, Barry should be mentally tougher to withstand Pop's tirades and offer Pop solutions to use his skills more wisely so blame does lie with him. However, I believe blame also resides with Pop and the rigidity of the "system".

[BigVee]

Several observations. Preface...I have been a Barry defender all year. 1. He has a real reluctance to shoot the ball. 7 shots in 37 minutes for a "shooter" won't get it. He is also reluctant to turn his game loose because when he does that, you often get the errant/hot dog play that drives Pop crazy and lands him on the bench. 2. He isn't the type of player who can create his own shot, so unless their are set plays for him, he is left with standing behind the line and waiting, or baskets in transition...which happens infrequently. 3. Because he is not noted as a great defender he absolutely never gets the benefit on any calls, so any marginal improvment in that area is negated.

Bottom line: On this team, so far, his game is completely contrary to Spurs basketball. He has done a poor job of entering the system and the Spurs have done an equally poor job of making any attempt to adapt what they do to play to his strengths. While I too still hold out hope, I am beginning to think that he will not be of much help come playoff time. For this, I believe there is shared responsibility on the player and the coaching staff. A damn shame.

[TwoHandJam]

Several observations. Preface...I have been a Barry defender all year. 1. He has a real reluctance to shoot the ball. 7 shots in 37 minutes for a "shooter" won't get it. He is also reluctant to turn his game loose because when he does that, you often get the errant/hot dog play that drives Pop crazy and lands him on the bench. 2. He isn't the type of player who can create his own shot, so unless their are set plays for him, he is left with standing behind the line and waiting, or baskets in transition...which happens infrequently. 3. Because he is not noted as a great defender he absolutely never gets the benefit on any calls, so any marginal improvment in that area is negated.

Bottom line: On this team, so far, his game is completely contrary to Spurs basketball. He has done a poor job of entering the system and the Spurs have done an equally poor job of making any attempt to adapt what they do to play to his strengths. While I too still hold out hope, I am beginning to think that he will not be of much help come playoff time. For this, I believe there is shared responsibility on the player and the coaching staff. A damn shame.You highlight all the points I've been trying to make.

Totally agree.

[MannyIsGod]

You don't need plays run for you in order to hit open shots.

Seriously.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

I agree with timvp and completely disagree with TwoHandJam. Simply put, to be a champion, you have to be a champion. Players who's nuts shrivel under pressure are better suited playing for the Hawks or Warriors or other NBA dogshit franchises. This is the big league, it's Barry's first step into bigtime and 98% of the time, he looks like the new kid on the first day of school.

Antonio Daniels was another, Hedo Torkoglu the same. It's different playing for the fucking Orlando Magic and playing for a bonafide contender night in, night out. Some guys relish it (see Manu Ginobili) and some guys count down the minutes and look for somewhere to hide. Don't give me the 'blame Pop' shit for chrissakes that's the most infantile, cop-out answer in the book. Pop is the best coach in the world at any level but unlike most coaches, his demands for excellence are off the charts- either you sink or swim and somebody better throw this bitch a lifejacket because he wants no part of what it takes to be a champion.

[Spurminator]

You don't change a Championship system to accomodate a non-Championship player. Perhaps Barry will improve next season after having a year to discover how Spurs Basketball is played. Otherwise, he'll probably need to be traded for someone who is a better fit.

[T Park]

I knew 2hand and Aggie couldn't blame barry.

That wouldn't fit Aggie's I Hate POp agenda, nor his Barry is god agenda.


How many more games does Barry have to absolutely suck ass in, before its realized, hes HITA2.

[davi78239]

Yea, I think the pressure is getting to him. Coming to a winning team with high expectations to be our missing piece which is a clutch shooter down the stretch. There's no doubt that he's not thinking about his shots too much. I just hoping that the switch will turn on before the playoffs.

[Que Gee]

Barry is not playing well to be sure but I don't buy the fact that it's all on him. As I said in the other Barry thread, I think some of the blame has to go on Pop's somewhat inflexible "system" and his ability to integrate new players into it.

There's just a lot of mounting evidence lately. Barry, Hedo, Daniels, Ward. How many guys need to fail in his system yet thrive in others before we at least question the system and the integration process?

Some just chalk it up to the pressure of being on a championship team but I think that's too broad a stroke to account for a full 9% drop in fg% in Barry's case for example. Guys just don't fall off a cliff like that without a better reason.

Barry's defense is never going to be stellar but the guy can play. Pop just needs to find out how to use him. And that doesn't just mean play him 37 minutes and hope he'll breakout.

Run a couple of plays for the guy. Jesus the guy shot 50% last year. 50%. Only a handful of guards have ever done that in their careers and he's done it twice. He should be deadly on a screen-and-shoot with the midrange J a la Ray Allen but how come I never see that run for him? Why is he pigeonholed into becoming a stand-and-shoot 3pt guy in Pop's system like Steve Smith? He's better than that.

AHF has a point. I have seen him become tentative because of Pop's wrath to play D and it's definitely affecting his game. D is not his strong point and never will be. Pop knew this when he signed him so he should try and play more to his strengths instead of trying to whip him into becoming someone he's not.

Again, Barry should be mentally tougher to withstand Pop's tirades and offer Pop solutions to use his skills more wisely so blame does lie with him. However, I believe blame also resides with Pop and the rigidity of the "system".

This is the the most thorough and intelligent piece written in a long time.

[Que Gee]

Several observations. Preface...I have been a Barry defender all year. 1. He has a real reluctance to shoot the ball. 7 shots in 37 minutes for a "shooter" won't get it. He is also reluctant to turn his game loose because when he does that, you often get the errant/hot dog play that drives Pop crazy and lands him on the bench. 2. He isn't the type of player who can create his own shot, so unless their are set plays for him, he is left with standing behind the line and waiting, or baskets in transition...which happens infrequently. 3. Because he is not noted as a great defender he absolutely never gets the benefit on any calls, so any marginal improvment in that area is negated.

Bottom line: On this team, so far, his game is completely contrary to Spurs basketball. He has done a poor job of entering the system and the Spurs have done an equally poor job of making any attempt to adapt what they do to play to his strengths. While I too still hold out hope, I am beginning to think that he will not be of much help come playoff time. For this, I believe there is shared responsibility on the player and the coaching staff. A damn shame.

2nd most intelligent and thorough writing...Kudos to both of you.

[ShoogarBear]

THJ what you say may be true, but there was also a glaring omission: Barry's previous postseason performances. Those weren't under Pop's system.

Factor that in, and you have to entertain the notion the guy just can't handle pressure.

[T Park]

adapt what???

what is there to fucking adapt?

give him MORE open shots?!?!?!??!!??!


I love this, the Spurs at times are a fast breaking team, and other times they give open shots to there perimiter players.


WTF are the Spurs supposed to change for Brent Barry.

LOL, you people act like this guy is a superstar.

Theres a reason he plays like this.

Look at his time with the Heat a few years ago in the playoffs, look at how he did in Chicago as "The man" and look how he did in Seattle vs the Spurs in the playoffs.

Plain and simple, the Spurs brought in a shorter Hedo TUrkgolu.

Spurs shouldve brought back Stephen Jackson TIMVP is right.

[TNT21]

I will keep the faith. This guy knows how to play the game, he just seems to be slumping this year.

[Que Gee]

THJ what you say may be true, but there was also a glaring omission: Barry's previous postseason performances. Those weren't under Pop's system.

Factor that in, and you have to entertain the notion the guy just can't handle pressure.

Give me a break...Barry Bonds endured the wrath of Post Season watchers for years... He kills it against the Angels, no one has ever said a word about it again. Don't factor stuff that happened 5 years ago...One good post season and it won't be mentioned again.

[T Park]

He kills it against the Angels

huh.

were talkin basketball here skippy.


Hes had more than 1 post season, and his latest was in 02 against the Spurs, where he totally dissapeared in 5 games.

[Que Gee]

adapt what???




Look at his time with the Heat a few years ago in the playoffs, look at how he did in Chicago as "The man"
.

Are you kidding me right now? The guy was to go into Chicago after the Jordan era and be "The man?" This could be the STUPIDEST thing written on this site.

[Que Gee]

huh.

were talkin basketball here skippy.


Hes had more than 1 post season, and his latest was in 02 against the Spurs, where he totally dissapeared in 5 games.

Really genius? I wasn't aware, I must be thinking this is the Giantstalk.com

The fact of the matter is, one post season of good play IN ANY SPORT and the next thing you know, nobody says a thing.

[T Park]

Thats correct.

He was the go to guy on that team htat year, and couldn't do shit.


Pressure. He cant fuckin handle it.


But, you seem to have a handle on his dick, so keep strokin.

[T Park]

Really genius? I wasn't aware, I must be thinking this is the Giantstalk.com

boy you are pretty dumb then aren't ya.

[Que Gee]

Give me a breakTpark...If you can't connect the dots from what I was saying as a "comparison" then only other person dumber than me is you.

[Que Gee]

Thats correct.

He was the go to guy on that team htat year, and couldn't do shit.


Pressure. He cant fuckin handle it.


But, you seem to have a handle on his dick, so keep strokin.

Give me a fuckin break...He had GREAT team that year, let me tell you. He should have been averaging 30 a game. Hey I'm not hear to say he's been playing great or defend him...I'm just as bummed with his performance as the next guy. I just think people irrational blasts of random pop offs are humorous. A couple people in this thread took the time to write some intelligent offerings...And talk about strokin Dick? Your screen name is TPark? Who's strokin who here super fan?

[ChumpDumper]

Plain and simple, the Spurs brought in a shorter Hedo TUrkgolu.Hedo could play D. But on offense your point is taken.

[smeagol]

I agree with everything THJ has said.

[Que Gee]

I agree with everything THJ has said.

Yep.

[timvp]

I agree with timvp and completely disagree with TwoHandJam. Simply put, to be a champion, you have to be a champion. Players who's nuts shrivel under pressure are better suited playing for the Hawks or Warriors or other NBA dogshit franchises. This is the big league, it's Barry's first step into bigtime and 98% of the time, he looks like the new kid on the first day of school.

Antonio Daniels was another, Hedo Torkoglu the same. It's different playing for the fucking Orlando Magic and playing for a bonafide contender night in, night out. Some guys relish it (see Manu Ginobili) and some guys count down the minutes and look for somewhere to hide. Don't give me the 'blame Pop' shit for chrissakes that's the most infantile, cop-out answer in the book. Pop is the best coach in the world at any level but unlike most coaches, his demands for excellence are off the charts- either you sink or swim and somebody better throw this bitch a lifejacket because he wants no part of what it takes to be a champion.

Amen.


http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/roxie/biggie_and_tupac/_group_photos/tupac_shakur1.jpg

[BigVee]

I'm sorry, was there some kind of forced draft that I missed that put Barry on this team over the screaming protests of Pop? He wanted this guy badly. Barry is a proven NBA player Pop shares SOME of the responsibility for making him an asset to this team. Amen.

[TwoHandJam]

I'm sorry, was there some kind of forced draft that I missed that put Barry on this team over the screaming protests of Pop? He wanted this guy badly. Barry is a proven NBA player Pop shares SOME of the responsibility for making him an asset to this team. Amen.
Exactly.

I don't know if others don't see what I see but Barry just doesn't work as another plug-in guard in the Spurs system who is supposed to either spot up for 3, drive to the basket or drive and kick. That's just not his game.

Yes, Barry can hit the 3 but he seems to hit it much better in transition or on the move after shaking a defender, not just spotting up. He's a shooter but he has his nuances. He should be deadly with a midrange J but we never use it. Let's face it, Barry can no longer reliably create his own shot so why do we hang him out to dry in our offense so much? How many times did he try and shake a defender last night to no avail and end up forcing a shot or passing the ball up? He could be our poor man's Ray Allen but we don't use him that way.

Barry seems tailor made for the pick-and-pop, pick-and-roll or any kind of 2 man game with a big man where he could shake free but Pop doesn't run these kinds of plays for him. Remember how smooth he looked running a pick and roll with Tim early in the season? Where has that gone? Hell, even Bowen gets screens now and hits the midrange J, why not Barry?

Yes, some of the blame has to fall on Barry but Pop should also realize he's not just another cog in the guard rotation like Bowen or Brown that fit well in Pop's system with little retooling. His strengths need to be identified and maximized. He doesn't have the talent or the moxy to stand up to Pop and demand his game be set free like Manu. He came here to be a role player, not to be thrown to the wolves in an unbending system that doesn't even try to cater to his strengths.

[Spurminator]

I'm fine with blaming Pop for bringing him in thinking he could just be plugged in as a spot shooter, but I don't think we should change our offensive scheme to accomodate him just because he doesn't fit the role we were hoping for him...

[Uncle Donnie]

Pop deserves blame for not figuring out that Barry wasn't going to work out before we could have traded him. But the bulk of the blame has to lie with Barry. He just hasn't performed.

P.S. - When did TPark become such a miserable bastard?

[Solid D]

I'm willing to trade him for either Jon, Scooter or Drew Barry. Or even Drew Barrymore.

:rollin

Just read this one.

Well, there's not much defense for the fact that Brent's only 50 percentage points below his average for FG% and 3-Pt. FG%. :( :depressed

[Que Gee]

What is it with all this, "can't handle pressure" thing about Barry. Look, the guy isn't performing, now if you think after 10 years the guy just sucks because he is on a "championship contender" and he "can't handle the pressure of it" your fucking ridiculous. The game is still the same. The baskets are still the same. But you konw whats NOT!!! The system! He's not fitting into the system, or hasn't adjusted or Pop and him haven't adjusted together. But your guys heads are way to big regarding the Spurs. Its not like he's playing with Magic, Kareem, Worthy, and he is supposed to be the Jerry West that puts them into the realm of the NBA's greatest team ever. The guy is just not playing well and stop it at that...damn!

[T Park]

P.S. - When did TPark become such a miserable bastard?

When people started blaming Rasho and Pop for every fuckin thing.

[vanvannen]

I'm fine with blaming Pop for bringing him in thinking he could just be plugged in as a spot shooter, but I don't think we should change our offensive scheme to accomodate him just because he doesn't fit the role we were hoping for him...

I don't agree with that. If Pop would have done that with Manu, we would be still playing 4 fucking down every freaking possesion. You have to make the system work for your players, not the other way round. If the Suns played Pop's ball they would be fighting with the Bobcats for the worst NBA record, but their system has adjusted to their players style and it obviously works.

I say draw some plays for Barry, make him feel useful and comfortable and he will start knocking down those 3's.

[wildbill2u]

Considering the difference in minutes played, there's not a whole lot of difference in percentages for fg, 3pt and ft between Barry and SJax--less than one percentage point I think.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know about others, but it's not Brent Barry's OVERALL percentages that I'm complaining about. He had a stellar January (ala Hedo) shooting above 50% on 3's which is bringing up his overall percentages. So please stop comparing his percentages to SJax and saying "see, he isn't shooting poorly."

What I don't like is:

1. His hesitancy to shoot.
2. Over the past few weeks Pop has played him in longer stretches to get him in the rhythm, and he has responded by shooting sub-30% from 3.
3. His highly-touted "high basketball IQ" and "intangibles" have diminished.
4. He goes through long stretches where he gives up defensively.

[Solid D]

All observed and true, Kori.

I'm also concerned that Barry has never really shot as well the Clippers, Heat, Bulls or Spurs as he has with the Sonics. What were the Sonics doing in their systems that maximized Brent's shooting form?

[ChumpDumper]

What were the Sonics doing in their systems that maximized Brent's shooting form?Never giving the ball to a big man. Ever.

[American Grace]

I don't know about others, but it's not Brent Barry's OVERALL percentages that I'm complaining about. He had a stellar January (ala Hedo) shooting above 50% on 3's which is bringing up his overall percentages. So please stop comparing his percentages to SJax and saying "see, he isn't shooting poorly.

Stephen Jackson by month:
November - 393%
December - 333%
January - 245%%
Febuary - 259%
March - 311%
April - 250%

Brent Barry by month:
November - 338%
December - 211%
January - 509%
Febuary - 370%




1. What I don't like is:
His hesitancy to shoot.

He's shooting more threes per game than Stephen Jackson did that season. Stephen Jackson was also getting other easy shots in games. Over half of Barry's shots are 3 point attempts. His percentages are much more impressive than Stephen Jackson.


2. Over the past few weeks Pop has played him in longer stretches to get him in the rhythm, and he has responded by shooting sub-30% from 3.

He hasn't shot under 30% from 3 as many times as Stephen Jackson did.



3. His highly-touted "high basketball IQ" and "intangibles" have diminished.

You didn't notice all the easy baskets he got Devin Brown in the New Jersey game that got Devin Brown off to a hot start?


4. He goes through long stretches where he gives up defensively.

If you want a defender instead of a shooter as your shooter just be prepared for ugly things to happen in the playoffs.

[smeagol]

^ whottt, is that you?

[Solid D]

Good call, smeagol. Perhaps it is.

[benjirh]

This thread is a joke. Barry puts up some crappy numbers and gets ripped. Rose puts up some crappy numbers and it's not his fault. And everyone is going to say that it is because Rose is a team player. Barry turned down a crapload of money to come play here. Do you think he is proud that he is shooting horribly? Do you think he plans on just riding the coat tales to a championship? No way. Has anyone heard him complaining about PT? He knows his role(by the way, his role is not a defender!), he knows what he needs to do. He will get it done. How many people called for Horry's head. Now he brings energy and a decent game. Stop the bitchin and let him play. All that said, I too am a little disappointed with his play, but still think it is great for him to be here.

[Solid D]

Do you think he is proud that he is shooting horribly? Do you think he plans on just riding the coat tales to a championship? No way. Has anyone heard him complaining about PT? He knows his role(by the way, his role is not a defender!), he knows what he needs to do. He will get it done.

True. I guess it's sort of like how many times does your kid drop the eggs in the HEB parking lot before you decide to let someone else carry the eggs. :hat

[American Grace]

^ whottt, is that you?

I'm not whottt, I don't even know who that is. I've been a member of Spurs Report and just found out about this website.

[ChumpDumper]

If you want a defender instead of a shooter as your shooter just be prepared for ugly things to happen in the playoffs.You want a shooter who can play in the Spurs' team D. Jack did. Kerr did. Manu, Bruce and Devin can, and they are currently shooting better from the arc. Don't tell me it's not possible.

[American Grace]

You want a shooter who can play in the Spurs' team D. Jack did. Kerr did. Manu, Bruce and Devin can, and they are currently shooting better from the arc. Don't tell me it's not possible.

Stephen Jackson used to get in trouble for defensive lapses and sloppy play. What kept Stephen Jackson on on the court was that the Spurs only had Steve Smith behind him and Manu was a rookie battling injuries and having to adjust his style of play. Stephen Jackson also had the worst two years of his career from 3 the two years he played with the Spurs.

Steve Kerr barely played here until his final season with the Spurs. He shot 39% from the field and 31% from 3 his first season with the Spurs.

It might be possible to play D and shoot, but there is plenty of history to show that some shooters have struggled in their first years with the Spurs. Steve Kerr being the most notable example. As a shooter Barry isn't shooting as badly as Steve Kerr or Stephen Jackson when they first joined the team.

[ChumpDumper]

Yep, I'll agree this year we have choices.

Currently better ones than Barry.

You didn't dispute that these guys could play Spurs' D. Why can't Barry?

[American Grace]

I am not disputing anything except that Brent Barry isn't shooting as badly as Stephen Jackson, Devin Brown, and Steve Kerr shot in some of their early years on the team. Stephen Jackson sat on the bench for an entire season. Devin was a limited reserve his first full season. Neither of those players came in and made signifigant contributions their first year with the team. Neither did Steve Kerr. Hedo made signifigant contributions his first year, but only after he was moved into the starting lineup. Before that move he was playing worse than Barry.

[ChumpDumper]

I am not disputing anything except that Brent Barry isn't shooting as badly as Stephen Jackson, Devin Brown, and Steve Kerr shot in some of their early years on the team.Is that what you expected from Barry?
Stephen Jackson sat on the bench for an entire season. Devin was a limited reserve his first full season. Neither of those players came in and made signifigant contributions their first year with the team. Neither did Steve Kerr.Though I think many posters would agree with benching Barry at this point, but again we're dealing with expectations here and none of these guys were making the dosh Brent is now.
Hedo made signifigant contributions his first year, but only after he was moved into the starting lineup. Before that move he was playing worse than Barry.Again the choices were very limited that year; there is no need for a welfare plan like we used with Hedo. It's faily obvious that the past few games have been an audition for first swingman off the bench for the rest of the season and playoffs -- Brent or Devin. Who do you think is winning?

[IcemanCometh]

Stephen Jackson isn't a shooter hes a scorer, big difference. Much like Manu.

Give me a scorer over a shooter anyday.

[timvp]

Barry turned down a crapload of money to come play here.

Barry turned down $2M more over the life of the contract from Golden State and Portland. He'll probably make that up in the savings of state income tax.

Hardly a "crapload".

[American Grace]

Is that what you expected from Barry?

I expected Barry to perform much better as a shooter. But he isn't shooting as badly as a lot of players shot in their first year with this team.



Though I think many posters would agree with benching Barry at this point, but again we're dealing with expectations here and none of these guys were making the dosh Brent is now.

What was Kerr making? He went from shooting game winning 3 pointers alongside Michael Jordan in the finals to being unable to get off the bench with the Spurs. Was Kerr choking due to the pressure also? His first year with the Spurs was the worst of his career.



Again the choices were very limited that year; there is no need for a welfare plan like we used with Hedo.
I'm not saying Barry should be starting ahead of Manu.


It's faily obvious that the past few games have been an audition for first swingman off the bench for the rest of the season and playoffs -- Brent or Devin. Who do you think is winning?

Devin Brown. Devin Brown isn't a shooter though, he's a scorer and a defender. When we need shooting to stretch the defense I don't think Devin will be able to deliver as well as Barry.

[ChumpDumper]

I expected Barry to perform much better as a shooter.Bingo.
But he isn't shooting as badly as a lot of players shot in their first year with this team.
So what?
What was Kerr making?[QUOTE]About half if I remember. Was Kerr choking due to the pressure also?Couldn't play the D til the second go round. So he sat. What's your point?
I'm not saying Barry should be starting ahead of Manu. What are you saying then?
Devin Brown. Devin Brown isn't a shooter though, he's a scorer and a defender. When we need shooting to stretch the defense I don't think Devin will be able to deliver as well as Barry.Based on what? Reputation? January's percentage?

[American Grace]

What's your point?

That Barry isn't shooting as badly as some of our other shooters have shot, like Stephen Jackson, Steve Kerr and Devin Brown for example. That is the criticism being aimed at him in most of these threads.

What's your point? Because I don't really understand what you are arguing with me about. I also don't understand why you are rude. You seem nicer at Spurs Report.


Based on what? Reputation? January's percentage?

What are you saying? That Devin Brown is a better 3 point shooter than Brent Barry? That's not true, not even for this month.

[T Park]

Why do we rip him up??

Because he was brought here for the sole reason to SHOOT GOOD.


When you dont live up to that, you deserve a ripping.

THAT SIMPLE.

[ChumpDumper]

What are you saying? That Devin Brown is a better 3 point shooter than Brent Barry? That's not true, not even for this month.How about this season? Is it true for that?
Because I don't really understand what you are arguing with me about.Your argument seems to be that other players' past bad play excuses Barry's. I say it doesn't.

[SequSpur]

Jaren Jackson + 2 Colt 45 Pounders + bag of weed > Barry

[ChumpDumper]

I also don't understand why you are rude.When in Rome....

Different vibe here, wait til whottt starts up.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tpark, quit being such a dork on this thread.

I told you - Barry is at his best in two places:

1. transition
2. pick and roll basketball

We don't see much of #1 with the reserves in on this squad, and I can count the number of times since Christmas that Barry has ever gotten to run a pick and roll on one hand.

Fuck, we run screens to get Bowen of all people jumpers, but somehow Barry is the plague because the only thing we ever ask him to do is something that he hasn't done in his entire NBA career.

Pretty fucking stupid. I'm not trying to put all the blame on Pop, but never running a pick and roll for Barry and expecting him to be automatic from outside would be akin to asking Tim Duncan to work from 25 feet out on every play.

Barry is not a spot up shooter, never has been. It's always been transition basketball and a motion/screen and roll type offense he has excelled in.

If Pop only planned on using this guy to spot up, then you need to admit he fucked up in even bringing Brent to SA.

[ShoogarBear]

Steve Smith wasn't a spot up shooter, either.

Didn't spare him from getting dumped on mercilessly.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Go figure. I always thought we completely misused Smitty. And concur completely on both accounts with you.

[American Grace]

How about this season? Is it true for that?

Brent Barry three point percentage by month:
November - 338%
December - 211%
January - 509%
February - 370%
March - 167%

Devin Brown three point percentage by month:
November - 333%
December - 412%
January - 429%
February - 300%
March - 154%


I wasn't saying Barry was a better 3 shooter because of one month(January), you are saying Devin is better because of one month(December). Barry has also been taking many more three shots than Devin.





Your argument seems to be that other players' past bad play excuses Barry's. I say it doesn't.

My argument is that criticism of Barry's shooting compared to other players, like Stephen Jackson and Steve Kerr, is exaggerated as well as inaccurate. Steve Kerr couldn't shoot the first year he was with the team. Steve Kerr is considered by many to be the greatest 3 point shooter in history and he shot worse than Barry is shooting now.

I think Devin is playing better right now, but he's not a better shooter.

[ChumpDumper]

AHF, if Barry's role in the offense has been the same all year, why did he do so well in January and is doing so badly now?

[ChumpDumper]

you are saying Devin is better because of one month(December).Since when does the entire season consist of December only?
Steve Kerr couldn't shoot the first year he was with the team.And he didn't play....

[American Grace]

Maybe he's not used to playing D so hard and it took his legs. I think that's what happened to Kerr. Coming to the Spurs doesn't seem to have the same impact on defensive players like Bruce Bowen and Mario Elie that it has on shooters like Kerr and Barry. I don't think there should be a competition between Barry and Devin Brown. If you need a defender/scorer/rebounder/ play Devin, if you need a shooter/ball handler play Barry.

[American Grace]

Since when does the entire season consist of December only?

Ask the people saying Devin Brown is a better 3 point shooter than Brent Barry.



And he didn't play....

I thought you said earlier that Kerr picked up the D so why can't Barry? It took Kerr a while also. It took Jackson and Brown a year.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, there's going to be a rotation, that's just the way it goes. I don't know if the legs argument carries much weight -- he's only playing about 20mpg. I would have an extra complaint about his conditioning if that was the case.

[ChumpDumper]

Ask the people saying Devin Brown is a better 3 point shooter than Brent Barry. For the season, it's pretty much a wash.
I thought you said earlier that Kerr picked up the D so why can't Barry? It took Kerr a while also. It took Jackson and Brown a year.By that reasoning, we should IR Barry. Expectations.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Chump - probably because he knew his role, and the team as a collective unit was rolling.

Now we've got Pop going into "defense or die" playoff preparation mode, he's fucking with his rotations, guys get DNP-CD one night, 25 minutes the next, etc.

[ChumpDumper]

My, that was unexpected.

[American Grace]

For the season, it's pretty much a wash.

For the season Barry is shooting at a better percentage while taking more shots for every month but one. As badly as Barry has been shooting threes this month, Devin has been shooting them worse.



By that reasoning, we should IR Barry.

We didn't IR Kerr, Stephen Jackon or Devin Brown. If you put Barry on the IR that means you live and die with a rookie and Devin Brown. I think it would be smart to keep a guy on the active roster who is a career 400% shooter and who is considered to be struggling when he is shooting 348%.

[ChumpDumper]

We didn't IR Kerr, Stephen Jackon or Devin Brown.You might want to check yourself on that.
For the season Barry is shooting at a better percentage while taking more shots for every month but one.lol, nice twist to the definition of "entire season."

[American Grace]

You might want to check yourself on that.lol, Jackson might not have made the playoff roster once. If Kerr was on IR it was due to injury and Brown never got IR'ed last season.



nice twist to the definition of "entire season."

You are ignoring Barry's entire career shooting percentage, I am ignoring one month. I don't think I am the one basing my opinion on a fluke.

Barry has shot better every month but 1, so how am I twisting anything?

You will never convince me that Devin Brown is a better 3 point shooter than Brent Barry so I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this point. I don't think many people outside of this forum will agree with you.

[American Grace]

Well, there's going to be a rotation, that's just the way it goes. I don't know if the legs argument carries much weight -- he's only playing about 20mpg. I would have an extra complaint about his conditioning if that was the case.

So what do you think is causing it then?

[ChumpDumper]

Brown never got IR'ed last season. I didn't realize last season was his first.
You are ignoring Barry's entire career shooting percentageThat wasn't the question, was it?
You will never convince me that Devin Brown is a better 3 point shooter than Brent Barry so I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this point.Over their respective careers, Barry is a better shooter. Now, we're dealing with this season, and shooting percentages will not be the sole determinant of who comes of the bench first. You've already conceded that Devin is playing better now, so we don't even have to argue about that.

[ChumpDumper]

So what do you think is causing it then?Ever hear of a slump? Ever hear of not playing as well as you are actually able? Every Spur outside of the big three can be accused of inconsistency. To single out only one or try to deny it for one is eqully faulty.

[American Grace]

I didn't realize last season was his first.
They didn't IR him the previous year either. They cut him.


Now, we're dealing with this season, and shooting percentages will not be the sole determinant of who comes of the bench first.
I didn't realize we were arguing about who comes off the bench first.



You've already conceded that Devin is playing better now, so we don't even have to argue about that.

Conceded that Devin is playing better right now? There was nothing to concede. I never tried to say he wasn't. Shooting better? He isn't shooting better right now.

[American Grace]

Ever hear of a slump? Ever hear of not playing as well as you are actually able? Every Spur outside of the big three can be accused of inconsistency. To single out only one or try to deny it for one is eqully faulty.

I don't think anyone is denying Barry is in a slump. What's causing it? If it's not being asked to expend extra energy playing defense then what is it?

[ChumpDumper]

They didn't IR him
SPURS: Guard Devin Brown was placed on the injured list and guard Matt Carroll was activated.http://www.sptimes.com/2004/04/12/Sports/Idle_Celtics_in_as_Si.shtml Apologize.
They cut him.So we should cut Barry? What's your point? My point is these guys weren't playing when they didn't shoot well or play Spurs D, and few expected them to play 20mpg like Barry.
I didn't realize we were arguing about who comes off the bench first. We're certainly not arguing about who has the better 3pt% for the season, that isn't in question.
Shooting better? He isn't shooting better right now.You're absolutely right. For the last 5 games Barry is .167 from the arc and Devin is .154 -- you couldn't be any more right about that. Congratulations.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think anyone is denying Barry is in a slump. What's causing it? If it's not being asked to expend extra energy playing defense then what is it?Was he not asked to play D in January?

[American Grace]

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/04/12/Sports/Idle_Celtics_in_as_Si.shtml Apologize.

You first. You didn't remember he was on IR last year either.

He was legitimately iinjured by Willis, he wasn't put on the IR for poor play. Since Barry isn't injured I can only assume that when you suggested we IR him earlier you were suggesting it for poor play rather than injury.



So we should cut Barry? What's your point?

So much for your point about Devin catching on to the D immediately. That's my point.


My point is these guys weren't playing when they didn't shoot well or play Spurs D, and few expected them to play 20mpg like Barry.

It's affected every "shooter" brought in except Bowen and Mario Elie.


We're certainly not arguing about who has the better 3pt% for the season, that isn't in question.

It isn't? Next time Devin takes an 0-3 he'll be shooting at a worse percentage than Barry. There is less than 100th of a percentage point separating them right now, and Barry has taken nearly twice as many threes.



You're absolutely right. For the last 5 games Barry is .167 from the arc and Devin is .154 -- you couldn't be any more right about that. Congratulations.

I don't consider being able to look up game logs on ESPN a great accomplishment or anything, but thank you.

[TwoHandJam]

American Grace you're wasting your time. Once Chump gets into a hair-splitting contest there's really no point in continuing. You've brought a solid take and just leave it at that.

Welcome to the forum btw.

[Que Gee]

All observed and true, Kori.

I'm also concerned that Barry has never really shot as well the Clippers, Heat, Bulls or Spurs as he has with the Sonics. What were the Sonics doing in their systems that maximized Brent's shooting form?

Uh, not sure what stats your looking at but lets look at this with a little more reality...

For one, he shot 44% from the field and 38% from 3pt line for the Clips. Thats not bad at all. Is it all star material? No, but definitely better than average for a perimeter player...And lets also remember, this was the Clippers!
Second, he played 17 games for the Heat. 17 games...nuff said.
3rd...He played 30 games for the Bulls. 30. Nuff said. (lockout shortened season?)

Am I the only one that sees the common thread between Kerr, Hedo, SJ, Steve Smith, Barrys...intial induction into the Spurs system?

[MannyIsGod]

You know, the one thing people don't take into consideration when talking about Barry being brought in over the summer was that at the time we needed someone who could not only hit a 3, but run the point when Parker went to the bench.

Beno has performed better than any of us expected by leaps and bounds, and that right there changed the role that Brent Barry had before the regular seasons even started.

The fact remains, that he's a defensive liablity while he's out there, and for whatever reason you want to come up with, he can't hit a shot to save his life at this time. I don't know if you continue to give him time over Brown at this point. I've been very unhappy with Devin's shooting as of late just as much as I have been with Barry, but Devin has the ability to take someone off of the dribble, rebound, and defend. As long as he's out there with another point guard, his ball handling isn't a big issue.

At this point of the season, both Beno and Brown have beat out Barry for minutes. Whether you choose to give Barry the benefit of the doubt for a longer time is debateable. But if he doesn't catch fire soon, or at the very least hit a respectable percentage of his shots and play better defense, he's going to have to ride the pine. Regardless of the reasons, you play whoever is playing better, and that very well may not be Brent Barry.

I just hope if that's the case, he maintains his readiness. God knows he may have to fill a Kerresque moment in the playoffs.

[wildbill2u]

The subject is whether Barry is WORTHLESS. Not whether someone else is playing better right now or for the season or whether he should be getting fewer minutes (19 mpg avg.)

Worthless would put him into the category of Sean Marks, Sato, etc. as someone who can't contribute anything to the makeup of the team and should be on IR. I don't think he's in that category.

By the way, his season averages, adjusted for minutes played, are within one percentage point of SJAX in Indiana this year. But I think if Barry was playing more minutes it would help his game, both from a psychological and a physical reflex standpoint. This doesn't mean I think he should GET more minutes right now with the way he's playing.

[ShoogarBear]

Go figure. I always thought we completely misused Smitty. And concur completely on both accounts with you.

Sorry, I thought you were part of the HITA crowd.

[picnroll]

Barry is worthless. How many times in the Suns games were the Spurs abo0ut to get over the hump, take a lead, and Barry clanged a three deflating instead of inflating the team? And this is a reccurrent pattern in tight games. I dread to see what happens in a tight playoff sereies.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's cool 'Sug.

Smitty was really good at posting up other guards, and we never used him in that role.

Three years later Charlotte of all teams uses him better than we did.

[Que Gee]

Barry turned down $2M more over the life of the contract from Golden State and Portland. He'll probably make that up in the savings of state income tax.

Hardly a "crapload".

More money then you'll ever make.

[Que Gee]

Chump Dumper...Your getting your assed handed to you in this thread by Grace...Stop posting one liners like your smart...and write something legitimate...You add nothing in any sort of thoughtful submission to this issue except trying to ride the coat tales of some good research and comparison, and flipping it around...

[Que Gee]

Tpark, quit being such a dork on this thread.


Fuck, we run screens to get Bowen of all people jumpers, but somehow Barry is the plague because the only thing we ever ask him to do is something that he hasn't done in his entire NBA career.


Barry is not a spot up shooter, never has been. It's always been transition basketball and a motion/screen and roll type offense he has excelled in.

If Pop only planned on using this guy to spot up, then you need to admit he fucked up in even bringing Brent to SA.

Nice. And for all you Devin lovers...And I agree he's played well lately. He's played well because he got someone in there like Barry that throws the ball UP THE COURT!!! Its called Transition! Not, lets watch Manu and Tony dribble the length of the court and go to the rack. I'm not knocking them for doing that, but Barry's game is transition. He thrives on guys like Devin running the floor. Why the hell was he so good in Seattle? Because he had Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, and Radmonovich, running full speed ahead of him because they KNEW he would throw the ball to them. The way it is now, Barry is running the floor and NEVER gets the ball in transition. When was the last time you saw him get a lay up on transition? But, I can tell you right now, you saw him GIVE Devin Brown at least 3 layups and a nice Dunk...

[Que Gee]

Barry is worthless. How many times in the Suns games were the Spurs abo0ut to get over the hump, take a lead, and Barry clanged a three deflating instead of inflating the team? And this is a reccurrent pattern in tight games. I dread to see what happens in a tight playoff sereies.

Whatever...How many times in the first Suns game were the Spurs about to lose, and hit clutch threes.

[picnroll]

Whatever...How many times in the first Suns game were the Spurs about to lose, and hit clutch threes.

You can count the games Barry's made a significant differece on a hand full of amputated fingers. Brown has impacted far more games than Barry. Horry impacted far more games than Barry. Malik impacted more games than Barry. Hell Beno has impacted far more games than Barry. There was much talk by pundits and many here, myself included, about Barry being a sixth man candidate. Face it Barry has been a MAJOR disappointment. Jackson >>> Hedo >>> Smith >>> Barry.

[T Park]

How many times in the first Suns game

maybe the second game, not the first.


Biut KG, I wouldn't smart off too much to TIMVP.

[Que Gee]

maybe the second game, not the first.


Biut KG, I wouldn't smart off too much to TIMVP.

I ain't afraid...believe me.

[Que Gee]

You can count the games Barry's made a significant differece on a hand full of amputated fingers. Brown has impacted far more games than Barry. Horry impacted far more games than Barry. Malik impacted more games than Barry. Hell Beno has impacted far more games than Barry. There was much talk by pundits and many here, myself included, about Barry being a sixth man candidate. Face it Barry has been a MAJOR disappointment. Jackson >>> Hedo >>> Smith >>> Barry.

I'm not disagreeing that he's been a disappointment. But your 4 names that you have rattled off, Jackson, Hedo, Smith, Barry, And you should add Steve Kerr to this list were all major 1st year disappointments. (I give Kerr props for post season heroics) proves exactly what a lot of people have been trying to say...is it the player or the system? Or getting the RIGHT player for the system. Hell if Barry goes off in the playoffs, he'll be the next Steve Kerr. Never to be remembered as a first year dissappointment.

[T Park]

I ain't afraid...believe me.

Uh, seeing as he owns the sight, I would stay in line numbnuts.

[Que Gee]

Uh, seeing as he owns the sight, I would stay in line numbnuts.

I got nuts dude, thats why I'm not afraid to voice my opinion...Isn't that what this whole thing is about? If I can't disagree with Timvp just like I can't disagree with you or someone else, whats the purpose of this whole thing?

[timvp]

Nice to see that Brent Barry's mom posts here.

Welcome, G.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you guys really want to keep comparing Barry to guys like Kerr, Jack and Devin in their first years with the Spurs? Is this what you expected from Barry? Borderline IR play for $5 million a year? Are you satisfied with his playing at the level of a one-dimensional 12th man or near-rookie, minimum-salary projects fresh from Fayetteville or kicked to the curb by the Nets?

Is this really what you thought Barry was going to bring to the Spurs this season after 9 years in the league?

[E20]

Brent will come around.


P.S I lived in Barry's hood when he was a wee tad, about my age. :elephant

[team-work]

Basically Brent Barry was brought in this season after the setback to the Lakers in the playoffs last summer.The major problem then was lack of a consistent shooter to relieve some of Tim and Tony's duties. Right now we have seen improved plays by Manu and Tony (especially the higher consistency shown by the latter) as the major reason as this year's success. The reserves I would count onnow are Beno and Devin. They deserves big minutes. It's a pity that Barry hasn't met the high expectations on him. I especially admire Devin's hard-working attitude. (Does he still practise for extra hours like he did last year under Mario Ellie?) Let's hope they bring the championship back, and see what Luis Scola can do for this team next season.

[taruky]

Poor Barry, suffering the wrath of San Antonio fan. Listen, it's not all about nuts shriveling. It has alot to do with your role on the team and if you're being asked to do something you're good at. Barry is being asked to shoot a high percentage (threes in particular) on only a few shots per game and really only a few touches per game. There are some people that can't get into a rhythm like that. I'm not blaming the Spurs, certainly Parker, Ginobilli, ad Duncan should get the most touches. But it's just not a role the guy is used to.

Similarly, if you watched the Orlando-Minnesota game, Hedo got just about all his points on isolation plays. That's more of his niche. With three better one on one players on the Spurs, he was not a fit. Doesn't mean he has shrivelling nuts, he just was not in the right role for him. The Spurs need a Fred Hoiberg or Kyle Korver type, someone who can sit on the wings, drain threes, but not much else.

[MannyIsGod]

No, Hedo's nuts just were too small. I'm sure Steve Francis doesn't mind though.

[cqsallie]

WTFCAM?!
This argument can rage forever, but the fact remains that players recruited straight from college (or high school) more easily fit into a team than do players who have been with other NBA teams for a number of years (especially an NBA team whose coach's system is tremendously dissimilar).
For the sake of argument, pretend that you're 30 years old and you have been working in sales for a communications company for the past nine years - straight out of college. For nine years, you've been doing everything that particular company's way. Not only have you been adequate, but you've become a super-salesman.
Your company either buys out, or is sold to, another company. Nothing is the same - your comfortable niche is gone, many of your co-workers are gone. The rules aren't quite the same; the sales quotas are raised; you have more super-salesmen to compete against with the inclusion of the merger company's high-rollers; you have a new sales manager that has a totally different outlook on your job.
You think of yourself as a professional, but for a while, you find it hard to adjust to the new methods, the additional competition, the new products, the new manager... :rolleyes

[charmie21]

no he's not..

[ChumpDumper]

WTFCAM?!
This argument can rage forever, but the fact remains that players recruited straight from college (or high school) more easily fit into a team than do players who have been with other NBA teams for a number of years (especially an NBA team whose coach's system is tremendously dissimilar).
For the sake of argument, pretend that you're 30 years old and you have been working in sales for a communications company for the past nine years - straight out of college. For nine years, you've been doing everything that particular company's way. Not only have you been adequate, but you've become a super-salesman.
Your company either buys out, or is sold to, another company. Nothing is the same - your comfortable niche is gone, many of your co-workers are gone. The rules aren't quite the same; the sales quotas are raised; you have more super-salesmen to compete against with the inclusion of the merger company's high-rollers; you have a new sales manager that has a totally different outlook on your job.
You think of yourself as a professional, but for a while, you find it hard to adjust to the new methods, the additional competition, the new products, the new manager... :rolleyesMobley, Skinner, Williamson, Thomas.

Those guys are really sucking right now after two weeks or more in the new system....