Should the Army make her stay or let her go?

[Blake]

Army mom who reported with kids meets base leaders
By MARTHA WAGGONER – 2 hours ago

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — A North Carolina mother who reported for Army duty with her two young children because she said she has no one to care for them was scheduled to meet Monday with her commanders.

Attorney Mark Waple said Lisa Pagan took her children with her to the meeting at Fort Benning, Ga. "Right now, we're just in a holding pattern," he said.

Pagan was recalled to the Army four years after being honorably discharged, which is allowed under the military's "individual ready reserve" program.

Soldiers can appeal, and some have won permission to remain in civilian life. Pagan filed several appeals, arguing that because her husband travels for business, no one else can take care of her kids. Her appeals were rejected.

Waple said he didn't know if Pagan's case would be resolved Monday, but said the meeting "will be the next step toward some kind of resolution."

Fort Benning spokesman Bob Purtiman said Pagan reported to the Army post's mobilization center that prepares individual soldiers to plug into Army units already overseas or those training to deploy. He did not know how long she was scheduled to stay at Fort Benning.

"She's just passing through on her way to be deployed," Purtiman said. "She's here and she's going to process in. The command's looking at a range of options available to have resolution of her situation."

Purtiman said he didn't yet know what range of options commanders were considering. He said Fort Benning has day care services available for Pagan's children while she's there.

"There will be some resolution over the next couple of days about some temporary arrangements to help care for the kids while this affair is ironed out," Waple said.

Pagan is among thousands of former service members recalled after leaving duty since the Sept. 11 attacks because they're on "individual ready reserve" status, meaning they have time left on their original enlistment contracts and can be recalled at any time.

Master Sgt. Keith O'Donnell, an Army spokesman in St. Louis, has said that of the 25,000 individual ready reserve troops recalled since September 2001, more than 7,500 have been granted deferments or exemptions.

About 1,000 have failed to report, and most of those cases are still under investigation, he said. Another 360 soldiers have been separated from the Army either through "other than honorable" discharges or general discharges.

O'Donnell said Pagan isn't likely to face charges, since none of the individual ready reserve soldiers who have failed to report faced a court-martial.

Associated Press writer Russ Bynum in Savannah, Ga., contributed to this report.

[BacktoBasics]

She's been fucking discharged. Leave her alone already and let the lady live her life. Why the fuck are they so hellbent on fucking with her.

[mrsmaalox]

True she was discharged, but she was honorably discharged because she willingly participated in a program that allowed soldiers to be discharged before the end of their enlistment time, with the provision that they could be called back to complete their time if it was needed. I feel bad for her and her family, but I think she took a gamble and lost.

[JoeChalupa]

I was aware that I could be called for active duty when I was discharged so she should not be shocked.

[jack sommerset]

She knew when she signed up that this could happen. Her husband let her take the kids with her? Give me a break. She is using those kids not to go back in. Anyways this stunt will keep her out.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I wonder if this would even be a story if it was a male soldier.

Pretty pathetic to use your kids as an out IMO.

[Blake]

She knew when she signed up that this could happen. Her husband let her take the kids with her? Give me a break. She is using those kids not to go back in. Anyways this stunt will keep her out.

I also like how she "braved the storm with the kids in the car" just to make it to her destination.

I guess her lawyer braved the storm too?

I think the Army lets her out in the end.......I would think that they don't want the negative PR......especially in regards to recruiting.

[jack sommerset]

I wonder if this would even be a story if it was a male soldier.

Pretty pathetic to use your kids as an out IMO.

HAHA, if this was a male his ass would be thrown in the brigg getting it hard in his dirty hole.

[JoeChalupa]

HAHA, if this was a male his ass would be thrown in the brigg getting it hard in his dirty hole.

Not necessarily. I saw guys get out of duty due to a situation involving their children. It happens.

[JoeChalupa]

I wonder if this would even be a story if it was a male soldier.

Pretty pathetic to use your kids as an out IMO.

Maybe not as much but men are parents too.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Maybe not as much but men are parents too.

I know. And there are valid reasons for some soldiers not to go because of family hardships and the military grants their exemption. She, OTOH, appealed and lost.

[chode_regulator]

I was aware that I could be called for active duty when I was discharged so she should not be shocked.

Of all the things those dickheads lied to me about, one of the only truths they explained in depth was the IRR

[JoeChalupa]

Of all the things those dickheads lied to me about, one of the only truths they explained in depth was the IRR

Yup. +1

[BacktoBasics]

The land of the free. Unless you have a contract with the Military. Show me a contract that's ironclad anywhere else in this country. Part of what makes this country....this country....is all the resources available to limit ones liability after putting pen to paper. Leave her alone and let her raise her family. She doesn't want to be involved....so have her pay a penalty or something. You can't force her to participate. She's not a fucking slave.

The same people who are calling her chicken shit for her antics are the very same people who have likely stopped paying on a credit card, had a collection or never paid back a friend. She's not obligated to shit regardless of what she signed. Its the 'merican way.

[JoeChalupa]

The land of the free. Unless you have a contract with the Military. Show me a contract that's ironclad anywhere else in this country. Part of what makes this country....this country....is all the resources available to limit ones liability after putting pen to paper. Leave her alone and let her raise her family. She doesn't want to be involved....so have her pay a penalty or something. You can't force her to participate. She's not a fucking slave.

The same people who are calling her chicken shit for her antics are the very same people who have likely stopped paying on a credit card, had a collection or never paid back a friend. She's not obligated to shit regardless of what she signed. Its the 'merican way.

If contracts are not "iron clad" then why do people sue each other for contract failure and win judgements against the party that failed to meet their end of the contract? She may not be obligated to do shit but the Army may obligate her to spend time in the brig.

[Chief]

The land of the free. Unless you have a contract with the Military. Show me a contract that's ironclad anywhere else in this country. Part of what makes this country....this country....is all the resources available to limit ones liability after putting pen to paper. Leave her alone and let her raise her family. She doesn't want to be involved....so have her pay a penalty or something. You can't force her to participate. She's not a fucking slave.

The same people who are calling her chicken shit for her antics are the very same people who have likely stopped paying on a credit card, had a collection or never paid back a friend. She's not obligated to shit regardless of what she signed. Its the 'merican way.


Amen.

[BacktoBasics]

If contracts are not "iron clad" then why do people sue each other for contract failure and win judgements against the party that failed to meet their end of the contract? She may not be obligated to do shit but the Army may obligate her to spend time in the brig.They sue for fiscal compensation. Not physical labor....not typically. Charge her a fine...a ticket whatever you call it but you can't physically demand she do anything. She's not a slave.

[jack sommerset]

They sue for fiscal compensation. Not physical labor....not typically. Charge her a fine...a ticket whatever you call it but you can't physically demand she do anything. She's not a slave.

What about the money they invested in her? What about doing what you say you are going to do? What about the oath she took? She is going to walk away from this. Hopefully she will atleast be dis-honorable discharge.

[JoeChalupa]

They sue for fiscal compensation. Not physical labor....not typically. Charge her a fine...a ticket whatever you call it but you can't physically demand she do anything. She's not a slave.

I hear ya...but while I was not a slave...I sure as hell did very physically demanding shit I was told to do by my DI. I sure wouldn't have gotten just a fine or a damn ticket for refusing an order. :lol

[JoeChalupa]

Point being...don't sign the dotted line if you aren't willing to abide by the rules and regulations. But I clearly understand her dilemma.

[manufor3]

I wonder if this would even be a story if it was a male soldier.

Pretty pathetic to use your kids as an out IMO.

exactly

[ploto]

If she was a single mother, I could see it being more of a hardship case but she has a husband. Given that tons of men go off and leave kids with the other parent, it seems unfair that she thinks she should not be required to do the same and leave the kids with their able-bodied parent. I know he travels for work... but lots of women work and raise kids while their husbands are off in the military. Women with kids get called up from the reserves all the time. It seems much more like she is using her kids to get out of a duty to which she voluntarily agreed.

[BlackSwordsMan]

not like chicks fight in battle anyways

[Wild Cobra]

She's been fucking discharged. Leave her alone already and let the lady live her life. Why the fuck are they so hellbent on fucking with her.
Unless she served more than one enlistment, she still has time to contractually serve. When I was in, the minimum contract time was six years for enlisted and ten years for officers. It looks like she may have taken a two year enlistment, and still has the remaining contractual reserve. I'll bet she received a healthy bonus too. It's even possible she stayed in the reserves.

I have a hard time believing it is not her fault. The military lets soldiers know they have to make preparations for their family min the event of recall and deployment.

She is setting a poor example to the world for w omen's equality.

I was aware that I could be called for active duty when I was discharged so she should not be shocked.
Yep, in my case, I only had reserve time if I chose to stay in as a reserve soldier. This information is definately out there when someone leaves.


I wonder if this would even be a story if it was a male soldier.

Pretty pathetic to use your kids as an out IMO.
No kidding. There are circumstances time to time that are outside of ones control. The article or another one I read doesn't say anything about plans changing. One good reason would be for example if previous plans were to leave the kids with her mother, and her mother's heath change, is dead, dying, etc.


I also like how she "braved the storm with the kids in the car" just to make it to her destination.

I guess her lawyer braved the storm too?

I think the Army lets her out in the end.......I would think that they don't want the negative PR......especially in regards to recruiting.
Actually, when deserved, the PR is a good thing. Reason's like this are why the military has a difficult time integrating women. Such facts help rather than hurt. If anything, the PR hurts her case, because the military cannot afford to let such a thing prompt other women soldiers to do the same!


Not necessarily. I saw guys get out of duty due to a situation involving their children. It happens.
Yes, it does. One thing nice about the military is they are usually real fair about exceptions to policy. Especially when it comes to family matters. All you need is command approval at the appropriate level. If a good reason exists, it usually happens.

NC mom recalled to Army duty will be discharged (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/02/28/national/a065439S53.DTL)

[Blake]

The land of the free. Unless you have a contract with the Military. Show me a contract that's ironclad anywhere else in this country. Part of what makes this country....this country....is all the resources available to limit ones liability after putting pen to paper. Leave her alone and let her raise her family. She doesn't want to be involved....so have her pay a penalty or something. You can't force her to participate. She's not a fucking slave.

The same people who are calling her chicken shit for her antics are the very same people who have likely stopped paying on a credit card, had a collection or never paid back a friend. She's not obligated to shit regardless of what she signed. Its the 'merican way.

right. She's not a slave......that's why there is a contract involved.

[Solid D]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/02/us.soldier.children/index.html

By Eric Marrapodi and Chris Lawrence
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A soldier who reported for duty with her children in tow has been granted her request for a discharge, her lawyer said Monday.

[mrsmaalox]

A discharge is about the only thing they can do. In fact it's what they do for any soldier who has no family care plan in place. If she recieved any bonuses or benefits, she will have to forfeit or pay them back. I hope the IRR is changed ASAP; the Army is the only branch of the military that depends on it. But once it is agreed to, she is like any other employee in this country and must meet the job requirements or face the consequences.

[Blake]

Actually, when deserved, the PR is a good thing. Reason's like this are why the military has a difficult time integrating women. Such facts help rather than hurt. If anything, the PR hurts her case, because the military cannot afford to let such a thing prompt other women soldiers to do the same!


wrong

[ploto]

He said Fort Benning has day care services available for Pagan's children while she's there.

Why does she need a discharge then? Can she not serve duty there?

[mrsmaalox]

Why does she need a discharge then? Can she not serve duty there?

Umm, well that would be convenient, and we just can't have that now, can we? ;)

[Wild Cobra]

Why does she need a discharge then? Can she not serve duty there?
Because she was called up for going overseas. Not to stay in the states.

[Das Texan]

Dumb bitch.


This is why I never joined the Army. I didnt want to have to put up with bullshit like this.

Having said that, she did sign up and now she weaseled her way out. So therefore, I want her to be forced to pay back every fucking dime she wasted of my got damn money.

[JoeChalupa]

Dumb bitch.


This is why I never joined the Army. I didnt want to have to put up with bullshit like this.

Having said that, she did sign up and now she weaseled her way out. So therefore, I want her to be forced to pay back every fucking dime she wasted of my got damn money.

I don't see having to abide by the rules and regulations and the oath one took as bullshit. And I agree that she should be forced to pay back.

[Das Texan]

I don't see having to abide by the rules and regulations and the oath one took as bullshit. And I agree that she should be forced to pay back.

Well not the oath she took herself. That's just why I didnt join the Army among other reasons, was all the other little 'strings attached'

[wife #7]

You don't see me using my 20 kids to leave my 8 husbands do you ?
This is proof she didn't join the Army to fight for this nation she joined for benefits like 90% of the troops today. If she wants out of the service let her go just send her ass to France.