Damn I wish the trade deadline didnt pass, Barry is a joke

[DuncanMVP]

I knew that one game @ Suns was a fluke

[1Parker1]

He's worse than a joke.

Hedo>Barry

Honestly, I would rather have Hedo. I have officially given up on Brent Barry. The season is almost over and aside from maybe 2-3 games that I can think of out of the 60 some games we've played, he has sucked big time. Tonight was his time to show up. He freaking played 36 minutes, and missed almost every shot and did nothing on offense or defense. He could score 30 pts in the next game, and I still would not be impressed with him.

At least with Hedo, he could play some defense. :(

[stéphane]

37mins 5pts 5rbs 2assts 2/7 shooting...
as i'm euro i dont get to see the game...
what was he making for 37mins???
was he just standing there yelling "win this one tony win this one!"?

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Hopefully Pop keeps Wilks (kid really showed me something tonight) and leaves Barry off the playoff roster....it's gotten that bad.

[Slo spurs fan]

I can't belive it, but I agree with DuncanMVP on this!

[stéphane]

I can't belive it, but I agree with DuncanMVP on this!
have to agree too damn :rolleyes :lol

[1Parker1]

Very True Walton. Fucking Mike Wilks>>>Barry tonight. Wilks was on IR for the last 6 or so games, has played maybe 5 games all season and he came out with more energy and fire than Barry. Unreal.

I would leave Barry out of the playoff roster... unreal.

[stéphane]

could you remind me barry salary? *cough* 4M+ a year? *cough*

[CHAMPS AGAIN]

Very True Walton. Fucking Mike Wilks>>>Barry tonight. Wilks was on IR for the last 6 or so games, has played maybe 5 games all season and he came out with more energy and fire than Barry. Unreal.

I would leave Barry out of the playoff roster... unreal.

BARRY,will WIN playoff games for us and everyone will forget what he did during the season.MARK THE TAPE.

[stéphane]

he rested a whole season ... sure he'll be full health for the playoffs :lol :lol

[Jdspur20]

still rather have him than hedo. hedo is a waste of space.

[Tek_XX]

Is this guy a big underachiever or what? Dude can have all the fundamental skills in the world and he can't contribute on a consistent basis. What's with all the hestiating threes, WTF is this guy in their if he doesn't shoot. When was the last time he shot one inside the arc that wasn't a layup?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Face it, some people need the ball in their hands to get comfortable out there, Barry is one of them, but in our offense he rarely does unless it's on a kickout.

[kskonn]

I think we are starting to see some problems from having to many good guys. All the players know that if they screw up one time the can be benched. I think that is causing some of them to play scared. Look at Wilks, what did he have to lose? nothing and he came out and played that way. I remember portland going through this in the nineties when they had so much talent that a lot of the reserves could not get consistent minutes.

[TwoHandJam]

There is evidence that the players we've traded for in the past few years just don't thrive in Pop's system. It's not just as simple as saying this player sucks or that player sucks.

Barry's fg% has dropped an entire 9% from just last year with Seattle. That is huge. How does a player's game just drop off a cliff like that? This is a guard who shot 50% last year which is a feat most guards never achieve in their entire career. He's not starting this year and is averaging 10 less mpg. Can that alone really be the difference?

Hedo this year is shooting .15% better (still significant) with the Magic than with us last year and is averaging almost 5 ppg more with the same minutes played. Why?

Here are Charlie Ward's numbers before and after he joined us last year.


YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
03-04 NYK 35 10 23.6 .442 .428 .762 .30 2.50 2.70 4.9 1.34 .23 1.97 2.10 8.7
03-04 SAS 36 0 11.8 .346 .368 .667 .10 1.30 1.30 1.3 .47 .08 .75 .90 3.3

I'm not absolving any of these players of blame but doesn't the evidence suggest that part of the problem might lie with Pop's system/coaching and how well he integrates players with different strengths into his system?

In my view, it takes a very special type of player to thrive in Pop's system; someone who's extremely disciplined and mentally tough enough to survive Pop's wrath but who's also able to not completely bend to his will and compromise the natural strength in their game just to placate him.

Manu is a perfect case in point but it still required his enormous talent to let Pop loosen the reins. Daniels is a perfect case of Pop's dominance destroying a player. Now look at how Antonio's game is thriving in Seattle. Coincidence?

[kskonn]

Face it, some people need the ball in their hands to get comfortable out there, Barry is one of them, but in our offense he rarely does unless it's on a kickout.

agreed. Man Aggie I find myself agreeing with a lot of your posts lately.

[ShoogarBear]

In my view, it takes a very special type of player to thrive in Pop's system; someone who's extremely disciplined and mentally tough enough to survive Pop's wrath but who's also able to not completely bend to his will and compromise the natural strength in their game just to placate him.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/playoffs/news/2003/06/15/jackson_sider_ap/t1_jackson_ap.jpg

[TwoHandJam]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/playoffs/news/2003/06/15/jackson_sider_ap/t1_jackson_ap.jpg
True. If only Fegan wasn't such a jackass.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Looks like you're getting smarter kskonn ;)

TwoHandJam with the nice breakdown, as usual.

I think Pop's whole militaryesque "play D or you'll never play for me" style breaks good role players.

Look at Barry earlier this year, he was actually playing decent, then got yanked for bad D.

Some guys you just have to accept their D is gonna suck and take what they give you, which in the case of Barry should be 3-4 threes a night to open the floor for Duncan.

[kskonn]

Hopefully barry's experience will allow him to hang in their and not get down on himself. I really see him having that one moment in the playoffs where he really has an effect, Steve Kerr style. Hopefully he won't have beat up on himself to much by the time that rolls around.

[SequSpur]

Jaren Jackson + Colt 44 in 2005 > Brent Barry

[Sandman52]

True. If only Fegan wasn't such a jackass.

But SJax would be complaining about not being a starter. Unless he could force Bowen to the bench and play some 3.

[ShoogarBear]

Jaren Jackson + Colt 44 in 2005 > Brent Barry

:lol

I have no idea what that means, exactly.

But she-yit, Colt 45 > MJ in 1992.

http://www.mibeercans.com/images/National/National_B57-22.3_Colt_45_ML_P.JPG

[SequSpur]

lol... I meant Colt 45.

That means Jaren Jackson after drinking beer and out of the NBA for 3 years is better than Barry.

That dude just plain sucks. Jimmy Jackson is an allstar compared to him. Pop is a fucking idiot.

[kskonn]

lol... I meant Colt 45.

That means Jaren Jackson after drinking beer and out of the NBA for 3 years is better than Barry.

That dude just plain sucks. Jimmy Jackson is an allstar compared to him. Pop is a fucking idiot.


:lol :lol :lol


That was clever.

[mattyc]

We thought he'd be a good fit for our system... he's not. He is a player that should thrive in extended minutes such as today...

Beno is a good fit in our rotation. Reward him.

[T Park]

Face it, some people need the ball in their hands to get comfortable out there

of course.

It CANT be brent barry's fault.

It HAS to be Pop's fault.

How stupid of us to put blame on the player.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tpark, quit bring the tard take to the discussion.

I guess you've never played hoops before. Some guys are just stone cold shooters. They walk on the court hitting them from 3-4 feet behind the line.

Other guys need a couple of shots to get warm.

Some guys just need the feeling of the rock in their hands to get warm. Barry is one of those people.

Who said I'm blaming it on Pop? I'm just saying Barry needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

Fuck man, quit posting from your ass and do a little reading comprehension.

[Slomo]

still rather have him than hedo. hedo is a waste of space. How can you say that? I've never thought that I would defend Hedo but at this point last season we were getting more from Hedo than we do from Barry this year.

When Hedo was let go I was happy and even happier when we acquired Barry. Now I don't really know why. I'm an optimist so I still hope he'll prove me wrong - please prove me wrong!

[50 cent]

If a player can't fit in the system, tough shit. I played basketball and would make the most of any opportunity when I was in the game. Some guys thrive under pressure (such as the pressure that comes on playing in the best team in the league).

Obviously Hedo and Barry would rather rack up stats on shitty teams.

[T Park]

maybe aggie is finally seeing the light of Barry stinking and it NOT being Pop's fault for once.


Amazing.

[Kori Ellis]

Pop has given Barry every opportunity to thrive. He has even taken away minutes from Beno in the last few weeks to give Barry (and Brown) the opportunity to get into a flow and rhythm. Nothing seems to help. Barry often seems confused on both ends of the floor even when he plays for long stretches at a time. I'm not sure how much more Pop can do to help this guy along in the system. There's a time when a player just needs to sack up on their own. "Getting acclimated with the system", "getting used to come off the bench", "getting comfortable with teammates", "finding your role" ... those are phrases for pre-All-Star break. The Spurs have 20-odd games left. Even if Barry doesn't have his stroke (and there is no reason why he shouldn't), he also lost his "high basketball IQ" and just about everything else. Sack up or ride the pine and come in for spot minutes. I didn't want a $5M/year player for spot minutes for four years. But it seems that's what the Spurs have.

Hopefully Devin finds some consistency offensively. At least he always tries on D.

[T Park]

^^^^ BADA FUCKIN BING


Bang on post Kori

Ive been saying this about Brent Barry all freakin year and he STILL aint changed.


FOlks, remember back in Novemeber when you say,
"well, lets worry in March and april if hes still playing like this"

Well, its march, time to worry.


Barry needs to grow a fuckin pair and start making some goddamn shots.

[American Grace]

How come everyone says Barry is shooting so badly? Playing so badly?

His numbers are better than Stephen Jackson's were.

[T Park]

No, they, are , not.

[Kori Ellis]

Barry had a good January -- that's why his stats are what they are.

Since the A-S break he's averaging 4 ppg on 33% FG, 24% 3pt FG. He passes up open shots. He gets lost on defense. And doesn't do much of anything. I just want him to do something ... anything.

Last season, Hedo had a stellar January too, but come playoff time, he was no where to be found.

At least Hedo could use his 6-10 frame to get in position and guard some of the bigger wing players.

As for Stephen Jackson, his %'s aren't awesome but he wasn't afraid to shoot and had a killer instinct.

[T Park]

^^ Word again.


Kori, how many times this year have I said this year I wish Barry would stop passing up those goddamn open shots.

He shoots bad guarded shots, but passes up wide open ones.

ITS HORRIBLE!!!!


Barry needs to get his goddamn head in the game.


Im extremely dissapointed in Brent Barry.

[American Grace]

No, they, are , not.

Brent Barry this year:


SEASON STATS: PER GAME | TOTAL | PER 48 MINUTES REBOUNDS
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
2004-2005 60 2 19.5 2.1-5.1 .418 1.2-3.3 .352 1.2-1.4 .802 0.48 0.3 0.7 1.4 0.3 1.7 2.0 2.0 6.6

Stephen Jackson 2002-2003:


CAREER AVERAGES
REBOUNDS
YR TM G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF DQ OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
02-03 Sas 80 58 28.2 4.5-10.2 .435 1.2-3.7 .320 1.7-2.3 .760 1.6 0.4 2.2 2.5 0.0 0.8 2.8 3.6 2.3 11.8

Stephen Jackson was a starter and Brent Barry is coming off the bench.

Brent Barry is shooting better than Stephen Jackson did the year we won the title. You can't refute it.

[Kori Ellis]

Yes he's shooting a higher percentage from 3 than Stephen Jackson did that season. Like I said, Barry's % is somewhat due to the fact he shot 50% from 3 in January.

[Gummi]

I decided before the season started that I would give Barry a lot of time to adjust to our system. Going to a new team and comming off the bench for the first time in a long time is tough for players. But he´s gotten enough time to produce and he hasen´t done that this season. Like Kori said, Barry had a nice January but that´s not going to help us in the playoffs. We need his outside shooting.

I haven´t given up on him and I know Pop hasn´t too. But he needs to start making those three´s. 1-5 isn´t going to cut it. He still has 20 games or so to get himself into playoff form and start playing better.

[American Grace]

Since the A-S break he's averaging 4 ppg on 33% FG, 24% 3pt FG.

Stephen Jackson shot 245% or worse from 3 in December, January and March the year we won the title. He also made a lot more turnovers than Barry does and only pulled down 1 more board per game playing nearly 10 minutes more.



He passes up open shots. He gets lost on defense. And doesn't do much of anything. I just want him to do something ... anything.

You mean like key our fast break like he was doing at the beginning of the season? I don't think that was enough to keep him on the court.


Last season, Hedo had a stellar January too, but come playoff time, he was no where to be found.

Hedo didn't take a pay cut to come here. All Hedo wanted was to get paid. That was why he wanted to start.


At least Hedo could use his 6-10 frame to get in position and guard some of the bigger wing players.

And did that do us any good against the Lakers?



As for Stephen Jackson, his %'s aren't awesome but he wasn't afraid to shoot and had a killer instinct.

Brent Barry didn't used to be afraid to shoot. He just doesn't like taking bad shots. All he is doing is shooting threes. I think that's hurt his game.

That's just my opinion though.

I don't think I like the direction this team is starting to take. Devin did have a good playoffs last year, but he was not a priority to the Lakers. It's very similar to the way Antonio Daniels was excellent one year we played the Lakers and then the next year they shut him down.

I just hope that when we need a shooter in the playoffs, Devin Brown and Beno Udrih will be able to do that for us.

[slayermin]

He's struggled as of late but overall, I like Barry. I bet he is a great guy to have in the locker room to keep it loose.

The way I see it, he was brought to SA as the hired gun. He is 40% from three for his career. He is due for a hot streak which he is very capable of starting at anytime. I just don't want to miss it.

He has passed up some open shots lately. That I do not like. I can overlook all of his deficiencies in his overall game, as long as he doesn't pass up an open look. Otherwise, he is Hedo with no defense or rebounding.

[TwoHandJam]

Pop has given Barry every opportunity to thrive. He has even taken away minutes from Beno in the last few weeks to give Barry (and Brown) the opportunity to get into a flow and rhythm. Nothing seems to help. Barry often seems confused on both ends of the floor even when he plays for long stretches at a time. I'm not sure how much more Pop can do to help this guy along in the system.Then maybe he should try to modify the system however possible to complement Barry's game instead of vice-versa. Look, I'm not saying Pop is completely at fault here but some of the evidence I brought up earlier can't be ignored.

Barry, Hedo, Daniels, Ward. Why don't their games translate under Pop and why is the difference so stark under a different coach/system? It can't all be on the player can it?

[Useruser666]

I haven't given up on Barry. He didn't have great game against the Suns this time, but was a big reason they beat them last time. I don't think you can compare SJax numbers from '03 to Barry's because SJax was already on the team for a year and was getting more mpg. I would give the Spurs a high overall grade for their performance against the Suns last night. They almost won the game @ Phoenix without Dunca or Gino. I know Pop would say he expects them to win, but I'm sure he was at least somewhat pleased with their effort. Hopefully, Barry will contribute more, if not in small spot minutes.

[DuncanMVP]

Let Barry start a couple a games WITH TD

and lets see what happens

[ShoogarBear]

Let Barry start a couple a games WITH TD

and lets see what happens

:lol

"Bring Manu Off The Bench II"?

You're gonna get roasted.

[DuncanMVP]

:lol

"Bring Manu Off The Bench II"?

You're gonna get roasted.

NO bring BOWEN off the bench

[T Park]

Then maybe he should try to modify the system

why, its a championship system thats proven before to win when players make shots within it.


Stop making excuses for barry for christ sake.


ITs the system holy shit.

Thats his excuse for passing open shots, and missing shots?


Give. Me. A. FUCKING BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!

[DuncanMVP]

TD gives Barry confidence, thats why he missed EVERY DAMN SHOT!!!!!!!!!!


*just trying to make an excuse fro Barry*

[davi78239]

Now who wishes we could've gotten SJackson back, who new the spurs system and was clutch, instead of Barry?

[DuncanMVP]

Now who wishes we could've gotten SJackson back, who new the spurs system and was clutch, instead of Barry?


I wanted him all along


dont worry, we TD to shoot our clutch 3's :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Hedo, Daniels, Ward. Why don't their games translate under Pop and why is the difference so stark under a different coach/system?Poor examples.

Hedo actually played quite well in Pop's system. He just choked in the playoffs.

Daniels? How many coaches and how many systems did he go through before finding one system that he works in after, what 7-8 years?

Ward? Is he playing now? Unfortunately we got that guy just as the wheels were coming off.

[TwoHandJam]

Poor examples.

Hedo actually played quite well in Pop's system. He just choked in the playoffs.

Daniels? How many coaches and how many systems did he go through before finding one system that he works in after, what 7-8 years?

Ward? Is he playing now? Unfortunately we got that guy just as the wheels were coming off.

Daniels played very well in his rookie year with Vancouver. Then he was with SA for years being screamed at by Pop until he spent one disfunctional year with the Blazers after being traded there but can you blame him? Now he's thriving in SEA with the highest ast/to ratio in the league or some such and SEA is having a great year.

Hedo was up and down all over the place with Pop during the regular season. So much so that Pop benched Manu to help him, remember? He didn't just suck in the playoffs.

Ward is the most extreme case of all. This guy's game transitioned from averaging like 9pts/5ast to totally sucking ass in the same season. A little suspect to just call it bad luck don't you think?

[ChumpDumper]

Daniels played very well in his rookie year with Vancouver.Yeah, so well he was traded for Felipe Lopez. He was a bust.
Now he's thriving in SEA with the highest ast/to ratio in the league or some such and SEA is having a great year.So he can work in 25% of systems. Wow.
Hedo was up and down all over the place with Pop during the regular season.Not defensively, which is more than half the issue.
Ward is the most extreme case of all. This guy's came transitioned from averaging like 9pts/5ast to totally sucking ass in the same season. A little suspect to just call it bad luck don't you think?Is he playing now? Please answer.

[TwoHandJam]

Yeah, so well he was traded for Felipe Lopez. He was a bust.For a rookie, his numbers didn't look like bust material. Is he a still a bust? Please.

So he can work in 25% of systems. Wow.I explained the circumstances. If you can't refute it, don't bring it up.

Not defensively, which is more than half the issue.I'm assuming Pop knew Barry wasn't signed for his defensive prowess.

Ward's breakdown is an enigma to be sure, but Pop signed him so he obviously saw something in his game that, again, just didn't translate. Hmmmm.

[ChumpDumper]

By my count, Ward is about 7th on the Rockets PG depth chart.

[ChumpDumper]

For a rookie, his numbers didn't look like bust material.He was traded. End of story. He could never play point regularly until Seattle. End of story.
I explained the circumstances. If you can't refute it, don't bring it up.You made excuses.
I'm assuming Pop knew Barry wasn't signed for his defensive prowess.You should also be assuming that Barry knows he has to play something resembling defense to stay on the floor as a Spur.

[TwoHandJam]

He was traded. End of story. He could never play point regularly until Seattle. End of story.You made excuses.Don't be daft. You were trying to say he failed in 1 out of 4 systems when if you look critically at the circumstances, he really only "failed" (even though his numbers were fine) from 1 system other than SA. Portland doesn't count and you know this.


You should also be assuming that Barry knows he has to play something resembling defense to stay on the floor as a Spur.No, that was Pop's job before he signed him.

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

Damn, y'all give me a break. Yeah, Barry's been disappointing this season, but at LEAST wait until the season's over before you decide if we should dump him. Hedo led the league in 3 pt. % for a good portion of last season, but disappeared in the playoffs. Who's to say Barry won't reverse that and throw in a couple of key shots during the playoffs this year? I'm not saying Brown and Udrih shouldn't get the minutes now, just that YOU NEVER KNOW when a savvy veteran with shooting skills might surprise you in the playoffs (see Steve Kerr 2003 Game 6 WC Finals).

[ChumpDumper]

Portland doesn't count and you know this. What are you talking about? They could've kept him.
No, that was Pop's job before he signed him.So you're saying you're ignorant about the Spurs's system?

RIF

[T Park]

Barry at the time was considered the best "Shooter" on the market for the money.

He was considered a better SHOOTER than Stephen Jackson. THATS why he was brought in.


At least Steve Kerr could play something resembling defense.

Brent Barry is a joke.

[smeagol]

I have not given up on the man.

[American Grace]

Barry, Hedo, Daniels, Ward. Why don't their games translate under Pop and why is the difference so stark under a different coach/system? It can't all be on the player can it?

Steve Kerr shot 31% his first season with the Spurs. The worst year of his career. His overall field goal percentage was under 40%.


That's why I find it so funny that people are acting like Barry is shooting so poorly. They must not have been around in 98-99.

The two years Stephen Jackson was with the Spurs were also the two worst years of his career in terms of 3 point percentage.

[TwoHandJam]

What are you talking about? They could've kept him.If you think making Portland's roster is some kind of acid test for success then you're not worth debating.


So you're saying you're ignorant about the Spurs's system?

RIFBuy a clue. I'm not scouting for the Spurs. Pop and his staff are. This "discussion" is over.