Gooden could make smooth transition to Spurs [Archive]

Yorae

03-03-2009, 02:12 AM

Doing it in behalf of duncan228:

Gooden could make smooth transition to Spurs
By Mike Monroe - Express-News

Nobody in the Spurs organization is saying anything on the record about Drew Gooden, the 6-foot-10 power forward cut loose by the Sacramento Kings on Sunday night, in time to be added to the playoff roster of any team that might pick him up.

But others around the league call a Gooden-to-the-Spurs signing nearly a done deal, as soon as he clears waivers.

At the least, the Spurs appear highly interested in a player who started for the Cleveland Cavaliers when the Spurs played them in the 2007 NBA Finals.

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich acknowledged that the Spurs approached Sunday's waiver wire news “professionally.”

In addition to Gooden's release, Oklahoma City negotiated a deal to buy out Joe Smith's contract and Stromile Smith was waived by the Nets.

“We've got to do our work, just like everybody else,” Popovich said. “So when there's a trade deadline, or waiver wires, we pay attention to it, like any other team would, because you're always trying to upgrade your team if you think you can.”

Popovich did a masterful job of dodging questions calculated to make him tip his hand about his team's interest in Gooden, who played in Cleveland for coach Mike Brown, whose defensive system is closely akin to that of Popovich, whom he served as an assistant.

Asked if any player already schooled in the rudiments of the Spurs' defensive scheme would have a leg up on making a smooth transition, Popovich cut off a questioner.

“I'm not even going there,” he said, chuckling. “That's very clever.”

Adding players this late, he said, always carries some risk.

“It's just logic that the later in a season a team might add a player, the more difficult it could be, but that depends on the player's intelligence and experience,” he said.

In any case, none of the waived players can sign with any team before Wednesday, 48 hours after their releases.

Popovich wouldn't talk about Gooden, but Clippers coach Mike Dunleavy gave an analysis of what he could do for the Spurs.

Calling starting Spurs center Matt Bonner a dangerous offensive player who can be exploited by bigger players on the other end of the court, Dunleavy said Gooden would give the Spurs options against playoff opponents with big front lines.

“Now, it gives them a bigger, better rebounder and a physical guy, so they can mix and match, based on who they're playing a little bit better for sure.”

Sobering news: Spurs guard Roger Mason Jr., who enjoys summertime deep sea fishing outings, has been sobered by the news of a boating accident involving a pair of NFL players.

Oakland Raiders linebacker Marquis Cooper and Detroit Lions free-agent safety Corey Smith, remain missing after an accident Saturday in waters off Clearwater, Fla.

“We have been out in some choppy conditions,” Mason said of going out with his brother, “and I've been told a couple of times that we couldn't go out. We had to cancel a couple of trips, much to my chagrin. I didn't want to cancel, but they said the weather could pick up.

“It's scary, and I'm praying for those guys.”

m33p0

03-03-2009, 02:15 AM

Asked if any player already schooled in the rudiments of the Spurs' defensive scheme would have a leg up on making a smooth transition, Popovich cut off a questioner.

“I'm not even going there,” he said, chuckling. “That's very clever.”
obviously a pop veteran reporter. :tu

Spork KIller

03-03-2009, 02:18 AM

Gooden SUCKS balls...no wonder every team he plays for always cut him off...

Pathetic spurm fans and their pathetic hopes ...

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 02:20 AM

Here comes "the big drizzle":tu

smrattler

03-03-2009, 02:20 AM

Gooden SUCKS balls...no wonder every team he plays for always cut him off...

Pathetic spurm fans and their pathetic hopes ...

Pathetic hopes? I think you were talking about the Suns Title hopes?

Spur-Addict

03-03-2009, 02:23 AM

Gooden SUCKS balls...no wonder every team he plays for always cut him off...

Pathetic spurm fans and their pathetic hopes ...

http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsW/18459-24542.gif

It's not your fault. It's not your fault kid, it's not your fault.

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 02:26 AM

Gooden SUCKS balls...no wonder every team he plays for always cut him off...

Pathetic spurm fans and their pathetic hopes ...

As opposed to the Phoenix Suns realistic hopes of ever winning a championship...right...
:lmao

Go troll somewhere else :loser
And always remember Spurs own you!:owned

Spur|n|Austin

03-03-2009, 02:29 AM

I think Gooden is a solid pick-up.. I actually find it kinda surprising the Kings dropped him so quick. And this article might shut up some of the naysayers who say he doesn't play D.

EricB

03-03-2009, 02:34 AM

I think Gooden is a solid pick-up.. I actually find it kinda surprising the Kings dropped him so quick. And this article might shut up some of the naysayers who say he doesn't play D.

Where does it say there that he plays good defense?

It just says he played under a similar defensive style....

Yorae

03-03-2009, 02:36 AM

Since duncan can make almost anybody look good when playing with him, let's hope it stays true with gooden if ever he get signed.

PuttPutt

03-03-2009, 02:42 AM

Gooden would be a good addition. He may not play the best D, but the Spurs play TEAM D & that would help him. The other thing is that he can rebound.

The down side of it is, if it's true, he has a sports hernia. I don't know if there's any truth to it, but it's something I heard or read somewhere.

whottt

03-03-2009, 02:45 AM

More than likely his aquisition will break Bonner's focus and get him looking over his shoulder(insert comment about what a wuss Bonner is here) causing him to shoot worse...leaving us with 2 shitty offensive and defensive forwards.

No one ever thinks of these sorts of things...despite the fact that we've had about 5 years now of a SG glut impacting the peformance of every 2guard but Manu Ginobili(the only one of them that knows he's going to get minutes) at that position....plus there was that Horry Malik thing...then the Rasho Nazr thing. We had the Barry, Brown, Finley, Udoka thing...the Beno Vaughn thing...

I don't know why Pop thinks creating these suvival of the fittest competitions is the best way to get production out of limited players...what he creates is a situation where the guy who sucks least out of the competition for minutes gets to play. I mean it's not like he's pitting Magic against Jordan...he's usually pitting two guys with shaky confidence against one anotehr...

Sometimes guys just want to know that they're the one he's going with. Bonner got that and I'd say he just about maximzed his potential...and now that's not good enough, and now we want better from a guy that's not going to give us better really.

Same as it ever was.

m33p0

03-03-2009, 02:49 AM

Tully365

03-03-2009, 02:50 AM

He's a 6'10" vet who is practically free and has no contractual obligations beyond this season... what is there to lose? The absolute worst case scenario is he doesn't fit in well and only plays 10 mpg in the playoffs, which would still be helpful. The best case scenario is that he fits in nicely and improves team rebounding and team free throw attempts significantly, both weak spots. Another issue: should the Spurs risk going into the playoffs with a lack of frontcourt depth? Everyone knows it's over if Tim badly sprains an ankle in the playoffs, but should the Spurs risk giving up their hopes for a 5th championship if Matt Bonner sprains an ankle?

whottt

03-03-2009, 02:51 AM

i think matt has gotten past that.

Yes, because Matt Bonner oozes natural confidence...that's something you get "past".

Blackjack

03-03-2009, 02:51 AM

Spur|n|Austin

03-03-2009, 02:51 AM

Where does it say there that he plays good defense?

It just says he played under a similar defensive style....

Hmm, just had to re-read what I typed, and yep, I never said he played good D.. But you have to be crazy to think that any player is going to come to the Spurs and not work his tail off out there and attempt to play good team D. It's what Pop and the coaching staff preach, and the minute he doesn't play D, is the minute he's pulled off the court. Simple.

whottt

03-03-2009, 02:52 AM

Yeah well, Tolliver a green player, and Bonner knows that.

Yorae

03-03-2009, 02:53 AM

Yes, because Matt Bonner oozes natural confidence...that's something you get "past".

Yes it is something someone can get past. even a "pathetic" matt bonner.

m33p0

03-03-2009, 02:56 AM

Yes, because Matt Bonner oozes natural confidence...that's something you get "past".
what blackjack said. matt knows his role and he does a decent and sometimes spectacular job at it. he knows a lot of nights he will me over matched on the defensive end but it hasn't failed him to give good effort nonetheless.

Tully365

03-03-2009, 02:57 AM

The Truth #6

03-03-2009, 03:01 AM

Whott brings up some good points.

However, I have no idea what Pop plans to do with Gooden. If he gives him the Ely treatment and stick him on the end of the bench then the whole experiment is a waste, especially because we all know Gooden has zero interest or chance of sticking around here next year.

And even weirder, Gooden seems to have very little traits to be a "Spur". I can imagine Pop getting sick of him really, really quick.

For this to work, Pop is going to have to swallow his pride and endure Gooden's shortcomings, which is something I have a hard time imagining.

This whole thing is such a mystery.

whottt

03-03-2009, 03:02 AM

Yes it is something someone can get past. even a "pathetic" matt bonner.

Yeah and so many guys that play for the Spurs get past it. Like...um...I can't think of one. Matt Bonner starts because every other experienced big on the team is in their mid 30's or later.

Truth is...if he put Duncan, Parker or Manu in that situation they'd probably perform similarly to Udoka, Finley, and all the other former good players and even All Stars that didn't play well when he put them in that situation. He never truly put Duncan, Manu or Parker in that situation.

I want you to tell me what you have seen in Matt Bonner's Spurs career that lets you know this isn't going to impact the incredibly high level at which he's shot the ball this season.

Blackjack

03-03-2009, 03:03 AM

Yeah well, Tolliver a green player, and Bonner knows that.

So I guess he's got a little confidence?

Look, I completely understand the skepticism towards Bonner (I've personally always believed he's better suited coming off the bench and being somewhat of an energizer) but Bonner isn't the choke artist or meek dude so many make him out to be.

Yeah, He's a bit of a spaz by nature, but he's also much tougher physically and mentally then he's given credit for.

Yuixafun

03-03-2009, 03:05 AM

Yes, because Matt Bonner oozes natural confidence...that's something you get "past".

Once you get past a certain point in self belief you don't go back.

You might be born with low confidence... but it's one of those experiences that once you've been there you, go to the next rank, the next level in your progression, you advance from there or plateau.

You may play bad, but its not going to be worse than your best at the previous level of skill.

How can you lose confidence when you've had it in your realiity that you are good.

Imagine you a pull a fine woman, a 9 piece out of 10. From that point on you know the cailbre of woman you can pick up.

ulosturedge

03-03-2009, 03:09 AM

Tully365

03-03-2009, 03:14 AM

The idea that the Spurs should not pursue Gooden because it could interfere with Bonner's confidence is the ultimate insult to Bonner himself. Everyone from Popovich to Duncan himself has said that the Spurs need some added depth in their frontcourt. I'm sure Bonner himself thinks the Spurs could use another big. At the very least, Gooden will provide what was expected of Mahinmi, which wasn't all that much. It's not like Bonner will look at Gooden as a threat to his unique position as a three point shooting big anyway.

whottt

03-03-2009, 03:15 AM

You are the one implying with this post that Bonner is a wuss-- no one else has raised the objection that the Spurs shouldn't get Gooden because it would "break Matt's focus."

Um...trust me, I've been on this board long enough to know the typical response that sort of point gets. You seem to have a bug up your ass and be taking this personally when in fact, no where in my statement do I mention the name Tully. What you are doing is speaking for the board when you do not have the historical knowledge of past arguments on this board to be qualified to do that. There are several posters on this board that keep the pussy/clueless card lined up for any sort of player performance problems arising from Pop's style. And they know exactly who they are...even if you don't.

Using this argument, I guess the Spurs should never attempt to secure more frontline depth.... ridiculous.

Depends on if it's going to improve the team much...and how glaring the weakness is there...and how much it's going to fix that weakness. I'm saying Gooden will not do shit to fix any fundamental weaknesses in this team, because he has similar fundamental weaknesses to the team.

You guys have totally ditched your common sense over 8rbpg. And I seriously doubt Gooden will' pull down 8 boards a game for the Spurs...and even if he does he's not going to do it while outshooting Bonner or playing better D.

It's not that I'm against depth...it's that I'm against thinking players are title saviors based on plastic stats and ignoring all other factors. Like a history of playing shitty D...a history recorded on this very board by a variety of posters before they ever even knew Gooden might play here.

whottt

03-03-2009, 03:26 AM

Once you get past a certain point in self belief you don't go back.

And Bonner's not past that point. You know why he's not past that point? Because he's playing about as well as he can and he's gotta coach that isn't satisfied with it and is looking elsewhere.

You might be born with low confidence... but it's one of those experiences that once you've been there you, go to the next rank, the next level in your progression, you advance from there or plateau.

True...it's like that All Star Game Finely was in...that 3 point title Barrry won, those things kept them from going into the tank and sucking when they didn't know their role.

Those 3 rings Kerr won with the Bulls? If not for those Kerr might have sucked his first year with the Spurs. :tu

You may play bad, but its not going to be worse than your best at the previous level of skill.

How can you lose confidence when you've had it in your realiity that you are good.

Because confidence is a very fluid thing and the people that are inherently confident are the ones that are inherently confident, not the ones that have to develop confidence over a period of years.

Imagine you a pull a fine woman, a 9 piece out of 10. From that point on you know the cailbre of woman you can pick up.

Completely fucking false...and it's hilarious that you make that point with women, because there is absolutely no guarantees with them. I don't care how confident you are.

Tully365

03-03-2009, 03:26 AM

Um...trust me, I've been on this board long enough to know the typical response that sort of point gets. You seem to have a bug up your ass and be taking this personally when in fact, no where in my statement do I mention the name Tully. What you are doing is speaking for the board when you do not have the historical knowledge of past arguments on this board to be qualified to do that. There are several posters on this board that keep the pussy/clueless card lined up for any sort of player performance problems arising from Pop's style.

Sadly, you suffer from the problem common to others-- EricB/TPark, for one-- that having a lot of posts at spurstalk makes you more knowledgeable about basketball than all other humans on the planet. Get over yourself. You used the same stupid argument in your political posts, saying with absolute certainty that you knew how the country would vote. Well, you were wrong. You are a master at convoluted sophistry, and wrong much more often than you are right. I never used the term "savior" or any other absurd exaggeration in regards to Gooden-- this is the sort of idiotic thing you always do. One person says "Gooden could help and is a financially viable option" and you practically scream back "HE IS NOT A BETTER DEFENDER THAN BILL RUSSELL!"

EricB

03-03-2009, 03:30 AM

Sadly, you suffer from the problem common to others-- EricB/TPark, for one-- that having a lot of posts at spurstalk makes you more knowledgeable about basketball than all other humans on the planet. Get over yourself. You used the same stupid argument in your political posts, saying with absolute certainty that you knew how the country would vote. Well, you were wrong. You are a master at convoluted sophistry, and wrong much more often than you are right. I never used the term "savior" or any other absurd exxageration in regards to Gooden-- this is the sort of idiotic thing you always do. One person says "Gooden could help and is a financially viable option" and you practically scream back "HE IS NOT A BETTER DEFENDER THAN BILL RUSSELL!"

Again I'm flattered, but try and with hold from talking about me.

It's getting to stalking porportions and getting creepy.

Tully365

03-03-2009, 03:32 AM

Good come-back.

EricB

03-03-2009, 03:32 AM

Good come-back.

Sorry to dissapoint but quit with the referencing me, its seriously getting old, played out, and childish.

Grow up.

Manufan909

03-03-2009, 03:33 AM

Sadly, you suffer from the problem common to others-- EricB/TPark, for one-- that having a lot of posts at spurstalk makes you more knowledgeable about basketball than all other humans on the planet. Get over yourself. You used the same stupid argument in your political posts, saying with absolute certainty that you knew how the country would vote. Well, you were wrong. You are a master at convoluted sophistry, and wrong much more often than you are right. I never used the term "savior" or any other absurd exaggeration in regards to Gooden-- this is the sort of idiotic thing you always do. One person says "Gooden could help and is a financially viable option" and you practically scream back "HE IS NOT A BETTER DEFENDER THAN BILL RUSSELL!"

Too lazy to look up the pwned sign, so OWNED!!!

Can't wait to check out whottts comeback, but I'm gonna crash.

EricB

03-03-2009, 03:34 AM

Too lazy to look up the pwned sign, so OWNED!!!

Can't wait to check out whottts comeback, but I'm gonna crash.

Yeah the whole insult the person and using large vocabulary words is always a great comeback.

But what the hell, its a message board and its more know it alls, so it works.

m33p0

03-03-2009, 03:37 AM

Wasn't it written somewhere that these guys would not be eligible for the playoffs? If this is the case all this is an utter waste of time. I say wait for the off-season and go after some better potential candidates.
the rule is a player needs to be waived by march 1 in order for said player to be eligible to play for the playoffs. brent barry from last season cited for example.

Cry Havoc

03-03-2009, 03:37 AM

According to whottt, we shouldn't ever make attempts to improve our team because it might hurt someone's feelings. Dwight Howard's a free agent? Don't pick him up, it might make KT and Fabs jealous! :lol

This is the freaking NBA. Matt Bonner is the #1 3 point shooter this season. Gooden and Bonner don't even play the same type of game. It's not like Drew is going to be standing out at the 3 point line, getting pissed at Bonner for "invading his turf". He's a post player. Matt Bonner is not. Bonner spreads the defense, Gooden consolidates the offense. If they were going to be used in the same aspect of our system, you might (and I stress MIGHT) have a point whottt, but they're completely different players. We play a team with a lot of post-presence? Gooden's the man down low next to Duncan. A team sags in the zone and wants to play tight D inside? Go to Bonner.

Besides, if Drew helps us win, I don't see that affecting Bonner too negatively. Winning is the ultimate confidence boost.

whottt

03-03-2009, 03:38 AM

Sadly, you suffer from the problem common to others-- EricB/TPark, for one-- that having a lot of posts at spurstalk makes you more knowledgeable about basketball than all other humans on the planet.

No...I'd know more than you if I had never posted at SpursTalk...but that wasn't my point in anyway, my point was that there most certainly are people lined up to make those sorts of comments. My knowing that's got nothing to do with knowledge of basketball, and everything to do with knowledge of certain posters on this board.

Get over yourself.
Tell you what, you learn to not confuse the non-basketball points I am making with the basketball points I am making, IOW, get your head out...and then I'll get over myself.

You used the same stupid argument in your political posts, saying with absolute certainty that you knew how the country would vote.

Wow...unless you are right 100% of the time I don't see where you get off talking shit...entirely different subject and entirely different factors at work here.

See...a bunch of stupid people in agreement with each other can decide a Presidential Election...it cannot make Matt Bonner more than what he is...nor can it do that for Gooden.

In politics..a large number of stupid people decided this election, it's not that hard to see how I would fail to be in touch with them, not being one of them myself...whiile someone such as you, well it's just easy to see why you'd be more in tune with them.

Basically by talking this line of shit you are saying your predictions are 100% accurate...well let's see some of them...

I'd like to know who's going to be in the WS, the NBA Finals and the Superbowl...

Well, you were wrong. You are a master at convoluted sophistry, and wrong much more often than you are right.

No...there was nothing convuluted about it, it's just simply a case of the American people being far stupider than I thought they were.

I never used the term "savior" or any other absurd exxageration in regards to Gooden-- this is the sort of idiotic thing you always do. One person says "Gooden could help and is a financially viable option" and you practically scream back "HE IS NOT A BETTER DEFENDER THAN BILL RUSSELL!"

Um...again, you seem to think you are more important to me and this arugment than you actually are...no where did I say Tully thinks Drew Gooden is a savior...

You inserted yourself into there you see...much like you inserted yourself into this disucssion with me. You could die tonight and I would likely forget this conversation by tomorrow...so don't insert your self into my comments ok, if they are directed specifically at you, I'll let you know it. You really aren't that important...so try not to take them personally unless I want you too...you'll know because you'll see me saying your name as I say it, Tully.

TheSpursFNRule

03-03-2009, 03:49 AM

Do you think they would start Gooden?

Duncan2177

03-03-2009, 04:02 AM

TDMVPDPOY

03-03-2009, 04:08 AM

I have no complaints about Gooden he's a good low post scorer and has a decent jump shot and he can rebound and he's tough and physical and would take a lot of preasure off of Timmy and he is a huge upgrade over Bonner,Oberto and Thomas but thats just my opinion.

signin gooden is like signin rasho a few seasons ago who was basically a fkn nobody from the timberwolves, defense is not hard to teach, fkn putting ur hands up and manned down ur position and attempt to hustle is whats needed on this team...gooden his defense can still be improved under pops guidance....

baseline bum

03-03-2009, 04:21 AM

More than likely his aquisition will break Bonner's focus and get him looking over his shoulder(insert comment about what a wuss Bonner is here) causing him to shoot worse...leaving us with 2 shitty offensive and defensive forwards.

If that's all it takes to make Bonner lose his focus, then there's no hope for him to be strong enough to perform under the kind of pressure he'll see in LA in the WCF or in Boston/Cleveland for the Finals. That experiment was tried once with Turkoglu and ended in epic failure.

timvp

03-03-2009, 04:36 AM

Is it physically possible for whotttt to enter a thread and not immediately turn the subject to Barry and the excuses about why he didn't shoot more often?

He's gone. Let it go.

Spur|n|Austin

03-03-2009, 04:41 AM

Do you think they would start Gooden?

I don't think so. Not right away anyways.

TheSpursFNRule

03-03-2009, 04:57 AM

I don't think so. Not right away anyways.

Yeah thats what I figured. Maybe in the playoffs or late in the season who knows, he would look good out there with Timmy. :toast

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:06 AM

Is it physically possible for whotttt to enter a thread and not immediately turn the subject to Barry and the excuses about why he didn't shoot more often?

It's not physically possible for me to enter any thread and do anything, or not. If you understood that...you'd also understand why I'm right on this.

He's gone. Let it go.

:lmao it's only in your imagination that I haven't let it go...and I can look at Udoka's performance right now and show an example of this strategy going badly. This guy is a defacto basketcase now and it's not because he is mentally weak.

It's happened to guys that had won rings with the Spurs(like Malik Rose), it's happened to guys that had rings on their fingers when they got here(like Kerr and Horry), and it's even happened to guys that for all intents and purposes proved themselves under the Pop game...like Barry, and Finley.

This team wins titles when Pop has limited choices...he flakes out and makes everyone uncertain when he's got depth.

Matt Bonner is not going to be any different...you can kiss the near 50% from 3 shooting Matt Bonner goodbye...for the 46% shooting Drew Gooden. And he's not going to pull down 8 boards a game either.

He's also not all of a sudden going to start playikng passable defense just because he signed with the Spurs...you'd think Spursfans and Pop would have figured that out by now after the other 478 times it's been attempted without success.

timvp

03-03-2009, 05:09 AM

He's gone. The excuses can stop now.

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:11 AM

I'm not the one having trouble letting it go...you are.

Drew Gooden sucks.

TheSpursFNRule

03-03-2009, 05:36 AM

I'm not the one having trouble letting it go...you are.

Drew Gooden sucks.

You want Drew Gooden to suck so bad.

timvp

03-03-2009, 05:45 AM

I'm not the one having trouble letting it go...you are.

Drew Gooden sucks.Breathe.

TheSpursFNRule

03-03-2009, 05:48 AM

whott you waste so much time making these prolific posts but for what? We are getting Gooden at cheap cost and we don't have to give up anything. Yet your going fucking ape shit about it. Grow up you fucking baby.

Spursfan092120

03-03-2009, 05:50 AM

Gooden SUCKS balls...no wonder every team he plays for always cut him off...

Pathetic spurm fans and their pathetic hopes ...

Says the guy whose team just signed Stromile Swift...lol. Please...let's just stop it.

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:51 AM

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:55 AM

Breathe.

I can't...I did a trade LAST Monday in D-league 1 and it hasn't gone through yet, thus I might miss the playoffs.

Plus...it's really not about Barry, you've got it hardwired into your head that I am somehow grinding some axe over Barry when the subject is moot to me because he chose to leave...I mean, last I checked the Spurs can't force him to stay so exactly what would I be bitching about? The reason we are discussing Barry at this moment is because you can't let him go...

I've got lots of examples of this strategy not working without using Barry as an example...including on this years team.

cool hand

03-03-2009, 06:18 AM

ok, we are getting a no shot blocking big, great just what we don't need.

If the lakers get POPS. we are done for.

cool hand

03-03-2009, 06:20 AM

He can't block a shot to save his life

wtf

baseline bum

03-03-2009, 06:22 AM

Pops reminds me a lot of Bill Russell, if he was more athletic and wore a headband.

benefactor

03-03-2009, 06:25 AM

So whottt, would you rather us do nothing...or take our chances with the D-League fodder?

m33p0

03-03-2009, 06:32 AM

ok, we are getting a no shot blocking big, great just what we don't need.

If the lakers get POPS. we are done for.
huh? Pops won't be part of the lakers' playoff roster this year even if they sign him now.

whottt

03-03-2009, 06:35 AM

So whottt, would you rather us do nothing...or take our chances with the D-League fodder?

Hmmm...the first thing I'd like is to get another Laker Killer because Mason won't be enough. I don't know that there are any available though...

If that doesn't work then I'd like to get Horry so we'd at least have an enforcer and someone who knows the system...and someone who will draw a perimeter defender from Phil. But I know the Spurs aren't going to go that route...they'll want Gooden for the rebounding.

I don't think Gooden is going to fare any better than any other rebounder we have brought in. Oh he might do alright at first..but he'll eventually wind up like all our other rebounders do...and he's going to bring liabilities on the court when we attempt it.

So in lieu of all that I'd just as soon we keep Bonner as comfortable and confident as possible...because if he can hit shots against LA, then we can beat them. If he can draw a defender...we can beat them.

We aren't going to beat them if we aren't knocking down threes...I don't care how good we rebound. If we aren't knocking down threes they will take Parker and Duncan away and clog the paint and swipe the ball away in the fourth whenever anyone tries to penetrate or we try to run 4 down with Duncan. It is so tedious and simple what they do to us to beat us that I'm just sick of it frankly...

timvp

03-03-2009, 06:59 AM

whottt, even you have admitted Horry has choked against the Lakers. Signing Horry makes some sense ... but not to beat the Lakers. Phil ignored him in 2004 and 2008 and Horry shot a combined 5%.

benefactor

03-03-2009, 08:08 AM

So it's the Ghost of Horry Past or Gooden. Sorry, I think I have to take Gooden.

I don't really get the "keep Bonner comfortable" argument either. He will be asked to produce in the playoffs. That in itself is the most uncomfortable spot imaginable. If he is not at a place where he can mentally accept another player then we are in trouble when it comes to him mentally accepting his role as a contributer in the playoffs. Matt has also responded to both Tolliver and Croshere(two players that are similar to him) by playing well...so I don't see how bringing in Gooden will change anything for him mentally.

I look at it just like any other experiment we have tried. If he comes in and gives us a few extra possessions or prevents a few extra opposing possessions with his rebounding and can score some garbage points he is worth the minimum. If not, he rides the bench and we go with what we have. It's worth a shot when I think about how many extra possessions that the Lakers had off of offensive rebounds in the playoffs last year. That is almost as important as being able to defend the Bynum/Gasol tandem IMO.

hater

03-03-2009, 08:32 AM

Offensively Gooden is better than anything we have on our frontline besides Duncan. Way better. Some ppl are blind around here.

No he is not a defensive player, Spurs are not signing him for that. We are getting him for cheap to beef up our offense. He will definitely help vs. Lakers. Smart move.

and for that argument that Bonner's feeling will be hurt... :lol grow some balls

underdawg

03-03-2009, 08:38 AM

It's been frustrating all year with the obvious lack of athleticism down low and the lack of an obtainable player to fill that hole (Camby was close.) I don't see how Gooden helps address that weakness and if he doesn't (and maybe he's not supposed to,) does the FO have any options going forward to address this?
The answer is probably no and that's going to be tough to get past this year. 2007 is far behind us and not just a couple of teams have become faster and more athletic, but a lot of teams (LA, Bos, NO, Hou, UT, Por, Clv, Orl.) I'm not saying that PMB was the answer, but he's as close of an attempt at the answer that we've had available to us yet. No, he's not the golden god and I think it's funny that some were so quick to dog on others for being excited about this guy. Dunks are to basketball as homeruns are to baseball, but dunks don't necessarily address our problem either. Being fast enough or long enough to rotate for weakside help does address our weakness - we still don't have that. As a fan, I have to believe against the facts but the fact is we're still short one athletic/long big man and that's going to continue to bite us down the road.

urunobili

03-03-2009, 08:44 AM

whottt: i have some spare xanax dude... let me know if you need some... :wakeup

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 10:28 AM

Marcus Bryant

03-03-2009, 10:36 AM

I'm not going apeshit about anything...Gooden sucks and people need to realize it.

ok, we are getting a no shot blocking big, great just what we don't need.

If the lakers get POPS. we are done for.

Now I remember why I started spending less time here.

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 10:44 AM

I'm not going apeshit about anything...Gooden sucks and people need to realize it.

Whott, you know we're going to sign Gooden. He will be in a Spurs uniform soon unless something unexpected foils the deal, so are you going to give him a chance or not? :wakeup

sa_butta

03-03-2009, 10:56 AM

Im all for bringing him in, I just hope he doesn't sport the patch on the back of his head...looks like a mangina.

TheProfessor

03-03-2009, 11:01 AM

ok, we are getting a no shot blocking big, great just what we don't need.

If the lakers get POPS. we are done for.
:lmao What is going on with this insanity?

slayermin

03-03-2009, 11:08 AM

Hmmm...the first thing I'd like is to get another Laker Killer because Mason won't be enough. I don't know that there are any available though...

If that doesn't work then I'd like to get Horry so we'd at least have an enforcer and someone who knows the system...and someone who will draw a perimeter defender from Phil. But I know the Spurs aren't going to go that route...they'll want Gooden for the rebounding.

I don't think Gooden is going to fare any better than any other rebounder we have brought in. Oh he might do alright at first..but he'll eventually wind up like all our other rebounders do...and he's going to bring liabilities on the court when we attempt it.

So in lieu of all that I'd just as soon we keep Bonner as comfortable and confident as possible...because if he can hit shots against LA, then we can beat them. If he can draw a defender...we can beat them.

We aren't going to beat them if we aren't knocking down threes...I don't care how good we rebound. If we aren't knocking down threes they will take Parker and Duncan away and clog the paint and swipe the ball away in the fourth whenever anyone tries to penetrate or we try to run 4 down with Duncan. It is so tedious and simple what they do to us to beat us that I'm just sick of it frankly...

Great post. Preach on, brother.

Agloco

03-03-2009, 11:12 AM

Doing it in behalf of duncan228:

Gooden could make smooth transition to Spurs
By Mike Monroe - Express-News

I could also win the lottery.....:rolleyes

Agloco

03-03-2009, 11:18 AM

So whottt, would you rather us do nothing...or take our chances with the D-League fodder?

I think everyone's so twisted over Pops simply because everyone can see that he's got so much potential. His upside >>>>> Gooden. Unfortunately the Spurs don't have the luxury of time here. Get the vet and take our chances.

Pops is gonna be back, book that shit.......:hat

Manu-of-steel

03-03-2009, 11:19 AM

whottt: i have some spare xanax dude... let me know if you need some... :wakeup

LOL! I think xanax would not be the best for whott. He should have Chlorpromazine cause he's not in touch with reality. He needs an antipsychotic.

MoSpur

03-03-2009, 11:40 AM

Gooden signing would be good. He's not the worst defensive as some are making him out to be. The guy has always been a good rebounder, which is a lot more I can say for Oberto and Bonner.

xtremesteven33

03-03-2009, 11:41 AM

Gooden is a double double waiting to happen.

We havent had that in a long time from a BIG

temujin

03-03-2009, 12:13 PM

I think the following.

1) Gooden was the best Cav on the court in the 07 finals, at least offensively. In general, I couldn't remember a Cleveland or Bulls game in which I thought he was miserable.

2) Stats are pretty decent, never averaging less than 10 and 8. He particularly flourished under Brown in Cleveland, a photocopy of the Spurs system.

3) The guy is 27.

4) A head case?: possibly although "opened the Drew Gooden Reading and Learning Center at Cleveland’s East End Neighborhood House in September 2005 … won the NBA Community Assist Award in October 2005 … named the Al Lerner Community Service Award winner at the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards in February 2006 … has been named among professional athletes as “Good Guys in Sports” by The Sporting News on three occasions."

5) Comes essentially for free.

6) Plays no defense? Defense is a mental thing: there is nothing that cannot be learnt.

7) Most importantly: whott doesn't like him. So he could be another Scola.

There are, however, three big questions, in this order.

-Is he hurt?
-Is he on drugs?
-Why should he choose the Spurs, rather than Cleveland?

Marcus Bryant

03-03-2009, 12:40 PM

If Bonner is so mentally weak, He doesn't have what it takes to play a playoff game.
I say,If Bonner can manage to keep performing as he's been,them He'll show He belongs to this team. Otherwise,Show him the way out.

Yeah, what the fuck? Holy crap our light ass rebounding center is that fragile mentally? The point of Bonner's existence is that he's supposed to be a hard nosed oaf to make up for his lack of mobility and athletic grace.

Man, the drop off from Thomas to Bonner and Oberto is huge.

Joe Schmoogins

03-03-2009, 12:57 PM

Yeah and so many guys that play for the Spurs get past it. Like...um...I can't think of one. Matt Bonner starts because every other experienced big on the team is in their mid 30's or later.

Truth is...if he put Duncan, Parker or Manu in that situation they'd probably perform similarly to Udoka, Finley, and all the other former good players and even All Stars that didn't play well when he put them in that situation. He never truly put Duncan, Manu or Parker in that situation.

I want you to tell me what you have seen in Matt Bonner's Spurs career that lets you know this isn't going to impact the incredibly high level at which he's shot the ball this season.

Usually I agree with you Whottt and I enjoy your takes... but if you're saying that Duncan, Parker, and Gino would fold under the pressure of hypothetical competition for their roll on the team you have lost your mind. I'm hoping that's not what you meant.

Marcus Bryant

03-03-2009, 01:39 PM

what I'm saying is that If Bonner is gonna lose his confidence if they bring another big guy to the rotation, He is not mentally ready for the win or go home playoffs type of games.
He can hustle all He wants,and that's great, but if that famus 3 ball that kept him in this team aint falling,them Pop will bench him....for good.

I agree with you. My tone was directed at the genius you were addressing.

whottt

03-03-2009, 01:53 PM

Usually I agree with you Whottt and I enjoy your takes... but if you're saying that Duncan, Parker, and Gino would fold under the pressure of hypothetical competition for their roll on the team you have lost your mind. I'm hoping that's not what you meant.

I'm saying that Duncan, Parker and Manu are hardly flawless and if Pop had equally talented players behind them and could yank them and not play them for the rest of the game if they were having an off game or off to a slow start...they'd press too.

Furthermore, as I said earlier, there have been proven players that have struggled when put in that situation on this team...

When Malik Rose found himself in a competition with Horry he struggled. And he'd already won two rings with the Spurs and had some big playoff games for us. It happened to Stever Kerr his first year, Kerr and his 3 rings. It happpened to Barry, It happened to Horry. Horry even mentioned last year that not knowing he was going to be able to stay on the court was a distraction...it happened to Michael Finley as well.

It also happened to Avery Johnson before them.

Parker, Manu and Duncan are no different...it's not like they start off dominating every game and never have an off game...they've sucked for halves or quarters...the difference between they and the role players is that there is no one comparable to them in terms of talent on the team.

That game 5 against the Pistons by Horry in the 2005 Finals?

It was probably the worst game of his entire career up until there was 1 minute left in the third quarter...luckily for us Pop didn't really have any other options...or else that 4th quarter and OT by him never happens.

Bonner is certainly no differrent than any of thse guys, and in fact we can look back as recently as last year and see he didn't play as well when his role was more limited. And you guys are claiming he is going to buck this trend and continue to shoot at a red hot pace when he's got someone more talented lurking behind the bench behind him...

So Marcus Byrant and timvp get to engage in their favorite pasttime of calling players mentally weak or clueless...while the team suffers because of this sort of philosophy.

And boy you talk a projection...if I had a dollar for every time this guys pulled the weak or sucks card because of Pop's sutbstitutions and then changed their tune when, miraculously, the player started playing better when he got more minutes to do an injury....I could retire right now.

Here is the guide book:

Pop develops a quick hook or splits their minutes and role(due to depth) = It is deserved because they are playing poorly. It's never that they start playing poorly becauise of what Pop did, Pop always has a valid reason for doing it.

Competitor gets injured or doghoused and thus the players role becomes more clear and expanded = Player is suddenly figuring it out and really well.

It's like watching a couple of rats wander in a maze...they do it almost every year, totally in conjunction with Pop's whims.

coachmac87

03-03-2009, 01:58 PM

Spurs aint winning shit with out rebounding or defense....Bonner does not offer any of those.

The 3ball is great....But that is not Spurs Basketball. We need defense and rebounding. Bonner can shoot 3's and hustle while coming off the bench. If he has no confidence fuck him then. But I doubt he will.....How can you shoot aorund 50% all year and then move to the bench and lose all your confidence????

His role coming off the bench would be the same as it is starting...Shoot when your open!

whottt

03-03-2009, 02:01 PM

Well it's going to be funny because old mentally weak Bonner has contributed to several big wins this year. and they count as much as wins by non-mentally weak players...

Remember that when Bonner's shooting goes into the tank. His threes counted as much as the mentaly strong guys.

timvp

03-03-2009, 02:01 PM

whottt is now playing the "Barry was just as good as Duncan, Manu and Parker ... the difference was he just had more competition" card. Amazing :lol

Move on. He's on the Rockets. It's 2009.

whottt

03-03-2009, 02:20 PM

Stop selling yourself short...you're a better Barry troll then I ever was on my best day.

Just kills you he turned out to be a Laker killer after you spent 4 years calling him heartless, doesn't it?

That's Elson level ownage there.

Me? I wasn' surprised he wasn't mentally as the board "experts" claimed...nor am I surprised his numbers have mysteriously gone into the tank this year...it's not mental weakness, and it also doens't have that much to do with confidence.

The only players that do well in that limited role structure are ancient ones that don't even want to be on the court for a lot of minutes, and that's only after they've realized that they just don't have the legs for heavy minutes anymore(which usually takes a while for them to realize)...not guys that are 28 years old.

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 02:21 PM

More than likely his aquisition will break Bonner's focus and get him looking over his shoulder(insert comment about what a wuss Bonner is here) causing him to shoot worse...leaving us with 2 shitty offensive and defensive forwards.

Plleeasse, I hope you're not going to use Gooden as an excuse for Bonner if he sucks during the playoffs. :nope
Because I have never seen Bonner have a great night when we play LA (without Gooden) and that, my friend, worries me. __________________

roycrikside

03-03-2009, 02:26 PM

whottt is now playing the "Barry was just as good as Duncan, Manu and Parker ... the difference was he just had more competition" card. Amazing :lol

Move on. He's on the Rockets. It's 2009.

In some respects I agree with Whott. It's not exactly fair to Matt when he's having a career year, leading the league in three point percentage and putting up a respectable PER of like 17 or whatever, and he has to compete with a new guy for minutes, meanwhile someone like Fin is free to suck game after game and he's still guaranteed his 25 mins a night.

whottt

03-03-2009, 02:26 PM

Oh he's going to go into the tank long before the playoffs roll around...he's going to do it the first or second time Pop goes to the Gooden card.

It's not a question that Matt Bonner's numbers will go down from this point on, it's also not a question that Gooden in no way has a bright future with this team, because he doesn't...the only question is whether or not Bonner's numbers'll go back up again when Gooden is sucking...

There's no way they'll go back up to their current level IMHO.

As for the Lakers...I never claimed Bonner is a Laker Killer, we've only got one of those and his name is Mason...but he certainly seems to have the Celtics number. But if he's shooing nearly 50% from 3 and knocks down a couple against LA, he should draw a defender consistently even from Phil...anyway, I have been worried about LA all year and never claimed Bonner was the fix to them...

Gooden damn sure isn't either...because he's an idiot, and idiots are the absolute worst thing you can put on the floor against LA.

Marcus Bryant

03-03-2009, 02:28 PM

timvp

03-03-2009, 02:28 PM

Stop selling yourself short...you're a better Barry troll then I ever was on my best day. To this day, you turn every thread into a Barry thread. You are the Barry grand champion. Unanimously.

Just kills you he turned out to be a Laker killer after you spent 4 years calling him heartless, doesn't it? Link to me calling him heartless last season? And yeah, I was so sad when he was making those threes against the Lakers :rolleyes

If I were you, I'd say something like "Spurs lost 1-4 *scofffff*" but I give Barry props for his play. He went out in style :tu

But now it's 2009.

That's Elson level ownage there.Still haven't gotten an explanation of what "Elson ownage" even is. I don't think anyone else knows either.

Me? I wasn' surprised he wasn't mentally as the board "experts" claimedMentally what?

...nor am I surprised his numbers have mysteriously gone into the tank this year...it's not mental weakness, and it also doens't have that much to do with confidence. Yeah, says the guy who once claimed Barry could put up Magic Johnson type numbers if he ran the point and got continuous touches.

The only players that do well in that limited role structure :cryLet. It. Go. 2009.

Cry Havoc

03-03-2009, 02:28 PM

Oh he's going to go into the tank long before the playoffs role around...he's going to do it the first or second time Pop goes to the Gooden card.

It's not a question that Matt Bonner's numbers will go down from this point on, it's also not a question that Gooden in no way has a bright future with this team, because he doesn't...the only question is whether or not Bonner's numbers'll go back up again when Gooden is sucking...there's no way they'll go back up to their current level IMHO.

The faith you have in Matt Bonner is astounding.

FromWayDowntown

03-03-2009, 02:30 PM

timvp

03-03-2009, 02:31 PM

timvp

03-03-2009, 02:33 PM

Oh he's going to go into the tank long before the playoffs roll aroundYou've been calling Bonner a choker for almost three years now. You can't blame Gooden for that too.

whottt

03-03-2009, 02:33 PM

To this day, you turn every thread into a Barry thread. You are the Barry grand champion. Unanimously.

Link to me calling him heartless last season? And yeah, I was so sad when he was making those threes against the Lakers :rolleyes

If I were you, I'd say something like "Spurs lost 1-4 *scofffff*" but I give Barry props for his play. He went out in style :tu

But now it's 2009.

Still haven't gotten an explanation of what "Elson ownage" even is. I don't think anyone else knows either.

Mentally what?

Yeah, says the guy who once claimed Barry could put up Magic Johnson type numbers if he ran the point and got continuous touches.

Let. It. Go. 2009.

The Barry tunnel vision is astounding.

whottt

03-03-2009, 02:35 PM

You've been calling Bonner a choker for almost three years now. You can't blame Gooden for that too.

Choking is one thing...shooting nearly 50% from 3 is entirely another. I never said Bonner couldn't put up numbers if he got minutes...on the contrary, I say just about any player can and will put up numbers with minutes, and just about any player can and will struggle with a lack of them...it's you guys that don't get that. That's what we are arguing about right now.

BTW, just because Bonner is shooting 50% from 3 doesn't mean he's not a choker either...uncross those wires.

FromWayDowntown

03-03-2009, 02:36 PM

BTW, just because Bonner is shooting 50% from 3 doesn't mean he's not a choker either...uncross those wires.

So he still might be a choker, but Gooden will undoubtedly make him choke?

whottt

03-03-2009, 02:38 PM

No...Gooden will undoubtedly make him stop shooting nearly 50% from 3.

timvp

03-03-2009, 02:42 PM

just about any player can and will struggle with a lack of themDo you have to fill a Barry reference quota per post?

BTW, just because Bonner is shooting 50% from 3 doesn't mean he's not a choker either...uncross those wires.Obviously. I still think Bonner is probably a choker. He could shoot 60% on threes but with the way I've seen him play during crunch time, I just can't see him being a stone cold playoff performer.

Hope I'm wrong.

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 02:44 PM

In some respects I agree with Whott. It's not exactly fair to Matt when he's having a career year, leading the league in three point percentage and putting up a respectable PER of like 17 or whatever, and he has to compete with a new guy for minutes, meanwhile someone like Fin is free to suck game after game and he's still guaranteed his 25 mins a night.

Fairness? This is the NBA where the men get payed big to play ball. If Matt crumbles because we have signed Gooden and his minutes are decreased then he's on the wrong team. He's a big boy and he's been shooting damn well. I am not here to bash Bonner because I think Bonner is having a great year and has helped the Spurs offensively. I am trying to understand how Whottt can possibly believe we should not sign Gooden because it would be deflating to Matt's confidence. Hell, if the team had used that nonsensical logic we would have never won 4 Championships. Spurs play as a team and everybody has to understand the strengths and weaknesses and then deal with them.

But to expect the Spurs organization to cradle and rock Mattie like a baby so his confidence can shoot up and/or remain intact is ludicrous. He's a big boy he can take care of himself. Shit-this is the NBA!!:hat

Marcus Bryant

03-03-2009, 02:45 PM

Frankly, I don't think it's Bonner's minutes that are in jeopardy. I think the minutes in question are those played by Fabricio Oberto along with a handful of extra minutes that can be skimmed from Duncan and Thomas.

Hey, but if it provides a useful avenue to demonize Drew Gooden and predict that it will have been a poor choice to sign him, manufacture whatever concerns you can.

Bonner's playoff minutes were destined to be less than his regular season minutes. So far he's been a big help as he's kept Thomas' minutes down and he hasn't sucked. If the Spurs weren't able to rely on him during the regular season they may have ended up making a shitty trade before the deadline. Maybe they would have been desperate enough to give Horry whatever amount of money that would lure him back. Or maybe the Spurs turn to Pops Barack-Obama. In any event, the Spurs would have been in bigger trouble this season without Bonner, who managed to improve despite the bogus claims of mental weakness by the resident crystal meth user.

hater

03-03-2009, 02:46 PM

No...Gooden will undoubtedly make him stop shooting nearly 50% from 3.

LMAO

and the playoffs weren't??

If Bonner is so weak minded he will shrivel up in the playoffs Gooden or no Gooden. :rolleyes

ace3g

03-03-2009, 02:47 PM

Reports: Gooden Has Sports Hernia

The Spurs and Cavaliers have interest in Drew Gooden, who was bought out by the Kings on Sunday night, but there are reports of a possible injury.

The reports claim that Gooden is suffering from a sports hernia that could require surgery.

Cleveland is rumored to be deciding between Gooden and Joe Smith, who was bought out by the Thunder on Sunday night.

"Either guy helps them," said a general manager. "But Joe Smith is a solid vet who is good in the locker room who would understand his role. Gooden is a good player looking for his next contract."

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57655/20090303/reports_gooden_has_sports_hernia

Marcus Bryant

03-03-2009, 02:54 PM

Funny. I recall when Smith was viewed as "a good player looking for his next contract."

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 02:56 PM

Reports made it seem like the Joe Smith Cav deal was a done deal. Guess not...

whottt

03-03-2009, 03:01 PM

Do you have to fill a Barry reference quota per post?

Obviously. I still think Bonner is probably a choker. He could shoot 60% on threes but with the way I've seen him play during crunch time, I just can't see him being a stone cold playoff performer.

Hope I'm wrong.

Well #1, he doesn't seem to choke against the Celtics, they just happen to qualify as the hometown team for Bonner...and while chokers may choke(against the Lakers usually), chokers almost always tear up their home or old teams...see Smitty, Steve or Finley, Michael for a better example of this...and without a doubt, if the Hornets had been in NO when AJ was active...he'd have probably set the NBA record for consecutive threes against them.

Beyond all that...at a certain point even a choker becomes effective if Phil won't leave them.

For all intents and purposes you could say Steven Jackson was a Laker choker based on his performance against them in the 2003 WCSF...becuase I think he shot about 20% from 3 against them in that series...

Why wasn't that a choke? Because Phil had a defender glued to his ass for the entire series because he tore them up from 3 in the regular season...to the uncultured observer it would just seem the Spurs gritted that series out without the benefit of decent 3 shooting...

However to the knowledgable observer the impact of Jackson' season long frying of the Lakers from 3 was felt in the fourth quarters...when intead of Duncan facing triple teams from Fisher, Gheorge and Shaq...he was iso'ed on Shaq one on one...

Bonnere could have similar impact if he continues to hit at this incredibly high PCT...

You guys are insane for wanting to fuck around with his shooting..yes he's a choker(definitely a Laker choker if nothing else) but he's shooting at about as high a level as it's humanly possible to shoot at in the NBA...

You don't fuck around with that with a monkey wrench, hammer, and bullwhip...you handle that with Kidd gloves.

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 03:01 PM

Again, earlier reports had mentioned Gooden's groin injury. But now a sports hernia? If he has to have surgery, usually it requires 6-8 weeks recovery time. If this is true, this can't be good news. Well, it might be for Whotts and Mattie.:wakeup

whottt

03-03-2009, 03:04 PM

BTW...we do have one Laker killer on the roster no one is mentioning...he doesn't really have a rep as being one due to the fact that he never gets left open against them...but there is one other besides Mason...and his name is Bruce.

I do think this team as it is currently constructed is capable of winning the title, and I don't think Gooden is going to improve their chances of winning one.

Borosai

03-03-2009, 03:16 PM

Bonner will average a double-double in the playoffs. Guaranteed.

Maybe.

whottt

03-03-2009, 03:25 PM

whottt, even you have admitted Horry has choked against the Lakers. Signing Horry makes some sense ... but not to beat the Lakers. Phil ignored him in 2004 and 2008 and Horry shot a combined 5%.

I don't view Horry as the solution to the Laker problem....but Phil doesn't leave him...that's a ridiculous statement. I said I like Horry if we can't get a Laker killer because he has a shown a willingness to play an enforcer's role...plus he's Horry and he just does stuff to help teams win. It's like Pop said...he thinks of things spontaneously in the middle of play that's better than what coaches think of even when analyzing game film or with the advantage of observing things from the sideline...it just never hurts to have someone with his IQ on the team....and it doesn't take that much energy to take a 3...Steve Kerr did it pretty effectively for us at Horry's age.

Hell...Danny Ferry helped win a big game for us at Horry's age.

timvp

03-03-2009, 03:37 PM

I don't view Horry as the solution to the Laker problem....but Phil doesn't leave him...that's a ridiculous statement. I said I like Horry if we can't get a Laker killer because he has a shown a willingness to play an enforcer's role...plus he's Horry and he just does stuff to help teams win. It's like Pop said...he thinks of things spontaneously in the middle of play that's better than what coaches think of even when analyzing game film or with the advantage of observing things from the sideline...it just never hurts to have someone with his IQ on the team....and it doesn't take that much energy to take a 3...Steve Kerr did it pretty effectively for us at Horry's age.

Hell...Danny Ferry helped win a big game for us at Horry's age.I agree with most of that except for the part where you said Phil doesn't leave him. Did you watch last year? Phil left Horry wide azz open the whole series. He basically played had whoever was guarding Horry play a one-man zone.

2004 wasn't quite as drastic but there was nobody within five feet of Horry last year when he didn't have the ball.

whottt

03-03-2009, 03:53 PM

I agree with most of that except for the part where you said Phil doesn't leave him. Did you watch last year? Phil left Horry wide azz open the whole series. He basically played had whoever was guarding Horry play a one-man zone.

2004 wasn't quite as drastic but there was nobody within five feet of Horry last year when he didn't have the ball.

You're completely wrong...we didn't lose last year due to doubles. Brent Barry ensured that. We lost last year because the Hornets beat the crap out of us and we were tired from that series while the Lakers were rested and fresh.
Horry obviously doesn't play that well against LA...but I disagree that Phil doesn't consider him a factor...that's a ridiculous. Horry has made an entire career out of being a factor when teams don't consider him a factor...in fact that's what allows him to become a factor...teams considering him not to be one. Phil knows this better than anyone...

Phil never left Steve Kerr, Stephen Jackson, Brent Barry, Robert Horry...he left Bruce Bowen, for one game., and Bruce promptly dropped 27 on him..and it's never been attempted since.

The guys that get left open by Phil are your Terry Porter's, your Hedo's, your Michael Finley's, Danny Ferry's, Smitty's...and so far your Matt Bonner's...but Bonner is shooting at level to where Phil may not got for it...he hates doubling to begin with and the only team that has ever gotten him to do it consistenly is the Spurs...

You know Jacque Vaughn could be a factor against LA...Jacque knocks down that 18 footer when teams leave him open...

Duncan2177

03-03-2009, 03:57 PM

Bonner will average a double-double in the playoffs. Guaranteed.

Maybe.

Thats a big maybe.:lol

timvp

03-03-2009, 04:01 PM

You're completely wrong...we didn't lose last year due to doubles. Brent BarryDamn, you filled your Barry quota quick that time :tu

Horry obviously doesn't play that well against LA...but I disagree that Phil doesn't consider him a factor...that's a ridiculous. Horry has made an entire career out of being a factor when teams don't consider him a factor...in fact that's what allows him to become a factor...teams considering him not to be one. Phil knows this better than anyone...Phil respects Horry obviously but he didn't have anyone guard him last season. Re-watch if you don't believe me.

whottt

03-03-2009, 04:14 PM

Damn, you filled your Barry quota quick that time :tu

Thanks...but not as quickly as you just did, don't sell yourself short.

Phil respects Horry obviously but he didn't have anyone guard him last season. Re-watch if you don't believe me.

I'd rather not...in any case, the Spurs were just slow and worn down in that series, that's why they lost...too much Chris Paul. Add in the fact that our best energy guy was hurt and the refs were swallowing their whistles to the Lakers advantage...and well, acting like Horry was a reason we lost is worse than acting like he didn't have a lot to do with us beating the Hornets...or the Suns the year before.

whottt

03-03-2009, 04:15 PM

BTW timvp, since we finally got your attention in the d-leagues...I'd like to remind you that it is fantasy baseball season now...and you need to check the baseball forum. It's time to find out if you can draft a pitching staff :smokin

Indazone

03-03-2009, 04:18 PM

Rain318

03-03-2009, 04:23 PM

Gooden will take minutes away from Duncan. Gooden doesn't fit on the Spurs because he plays PF and we already got a PF...hmmm weren't those the words everyone used for Scola? :lol

Complete turn around. Now you want a big PF LMAO

Even if that is the case
Tim can play Center even though he is regestered as a PF
I mean when matt bonner came in the league he was regestered at PF and SF now he's playing Center

ChumpDumper

03-03-2009, 04:25 PM

Gooden will take minutes away from Duncan.:rollin

Marcus Bryant

03-03-2009, 04:27 PM

whottt, do you hate sunshine and embrace the rain?

whottt

03-03-2009, 04:28 PM

whottt, do you hate sunshine and embrace the rain?

Sometimes...sometimes there's nothing better in this world than a dark rainy day.

Marcus Bryant

03-03-2009, 04:45 PM

On those days, do you wear black and pick up your friend, the knife?

whottt

03-03-2009, 04:53 PM

On those days, do you wear black and pick up your friend, the knife?

No..on those days I'm usually in an unsually good mood in fact. As long as it's not cold...cold sucks and cold rain really sucks. If we ever got snow it'd be one ting but since we don't it just sucks. I personally like extremes of either beach type weather or extremely dark weather and both will put me in high spirits...I do like the night probably more so than the day, don't usually get going till about 2AM in the morning.

What about you? You seem to have virtually no appreciation for those wonderful dark days...and I'd say that's a little, you know..abbie normal.

Is it because those days require you to up the ole' psychmed dosage? Is it just a little more difficult than usual to figure out what user name you will login with on those spooky dreary days?

MarHill

03-03-2009, 04:57 PM

No..on those days I'm usually in an unsually good mood in fact. As long as it's not cold...cold sucks and cold rain really sucks. If we ever got snow it'd be one ting but since we don't it just sucks. I personally like extremes of either beach type weather or extremely dark weather and both will put me in high spirits...I do like the night probably more so than the day, don't usually get going till about 2AM in the morning.

What about you? You seem to have virtually no appreciation for those wonderful dark days...and I'd say that's a little, you know..abbie normal.

Is it because those days require you to up the ole' psychmed dosage? Is it just a little more difficult than usual to figure out what user name you will login with on those spooky dreary days?

It is always easier to like darkness instead of the light! Our culture has glorified the darkness!!!

:lmao

whottt

03-03-2009, 04:59 PM

Darkness came first...and without darkness there could be no light.

MarHill

03-03-2009, 05:03 PM

Darkness came first...and without darkness there could be no light.

Not to get religious.....but God said let there be light first!!

Sorry!!

:lmao

DPG21920

03-03-2009, 05:08 PM

Darkness is just the absence of light.

Dex

03-03-2009, 05:11 PM

Not to get religious.....but God said let there be light first!!

Sorry!!

:lmao

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

I'm far from a religious nut, and even I know darkness -> light. :lol

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:12 PM

Not to get religious.....but God said let there be light first!!

Sorry!!

:lmao

While that may be technically accurate in regards to what God said, it doesn't mean the darkness didn't come first...observe:

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

In any case...i refuse to discuss Genesis with people who have probably never engaged in heavy mushroom usage as you guys are inhibited spiritually, out of touch with the planet and have turned a blind eye to the abundant spiritual resources God created for us and intended for us to use on this planet...what they were using when Genesis was written and Christianity was founded.

People who refuse to utlize these plants, yet attempt to be spiritual are the ones that give religion a bad name and conduct inquisitions, crucifixions, stonings, suicide bombings and witch burnings and shit like that.

MarHill

03-03-2009, 05:13 PM

I'm far from a religious nut, and even I know darkness -> light.

Dex,

I know that scripture too!

I just wanted to debate whott!!

:lmao:lmao

Dex

03-03-2009, 05:14 PM

I would've gone with the chicken and the egg tactic.

MarHill

03-03-2009, 05:16 PM

While that may be technically accurate in regards to what God said, it doesn't mean the darkness didn't come first...observe:

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

In any case...i refuse to discuss Genesis with people who have probably never engaged in heavy mushroom usage as you guys are inhibited spiritually, out of touch with the planet and have turned a blind eye to the abundant spiritual resources God created for us and intended for us to use on this planet...what they were using when Genesis was created and Christianity was founded.

People who refuse to utlize these plants, yet attempt to be spiritual are the ones that give religion a bad name and conduct inquisitions and witch burnings and shit like that.

Whott,

I'm quite religious(and I'm not here to convert anyone...let me address that right now!!) and I know that scripture from Genesis quite well.

I was just needling you and having some fun with your darkness theory.:lol

:toast

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:24 PM

Yes but have you ever previously and are you now willing to take what they were taking then? Or do you just take the word of the man, the political man, the capitalit(or the socialist one) man, that the plants(that god made) are bad? Even though nowhere has God ever said anything about those plants being bad...and why would he? I mean he was the one that made them.

If not then you are merely parroting the words of men...and have likely never encountered anything close to God.

Cling to religion all you want...but if you cut yourself off from those plants you are cutting yourself off from God. And that's when religion becomes a means of control...a bad and misguided thing.

MarHill

03-03-2009, 05:29 PM

Yes but have you ever previously and are you now willing to take what they were taking then? Or do you just take the word of the man, the political man, the capitalit(or the socialist one) man, that the plants(that god made) are bad?

If so then you are merely parroting the words of men...and have likely never encountered anything close to God.

Cling to religion all you want...but if you cut yourself off from those plants you are cutting yourself off from God. And that's when religion becomes a means of control...a bad and misguided thing.

Whott,

This is a Spurs forum and I won't go into a deep religious vs. philosophical debate.

But my belief in Christ has changed my life and other's people lives I've seen around me. And I will leave it there!

If you want to discuss it further...PM me and I will be happy to talk with you about it!

quentin_compson

03-03-2009, 05:31 PM

Darkness came first...and without darkness there could be no light.

"It's always night, or we wouldn't need light."
Thelonious Monk

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:39 PM

Did you know that the only thing mentioned as a drug and warned of being misused in the entire bible, is alcohol? Yet is it the only one freely available to us...

In fact the bible clearly said that the plants that yeild seed after their kind were God's blessing to us...our meat. And he also warned that hyprocrites would discourage us from using them...

And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. -- Ezekiel 34:29

Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth. To you it will be for meat." And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:29-31)

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall speak lies in hypocrisy commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (Paul: 1 Timothy 4:1-3)

We listen to men when we outlaw these plants...we aren't listening to God...that's probably why we're all such complete assholes. And becoming bigger ones with every passing year. Just think...70 years ago someassholes said they were bad and now we think these plants that have accompanied us for all of the millenia of our existence on this planet were created in the sixties by a bunch of hippies.

Spurs9

03-03-2009, 05:42 PM

Can we stop talking about religion and get back to talking about GOoden?

So when will we find out about gooden for sure? If we don't sign him can we keep Pops? Or would it be too late?

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:45 PM

Can we stop talking about religion and get back to talking about GOoden?

So when will we find out about gooden for sure? If we don't sign him can we keep Pops? Or would it be too late?

Th two are inter onnected...because anyone that thinks Gooden is going to be a good pickup that will help us to the promised land is believing in a false messiah and obviously on drugs.

MarHill

03-03-2009, 05:47 PM

Can we stop talking about religion and get back to talking about GOoden?

So when will we find out about gooden for sure? If we don't sign him can we keep Pops? Or would it be too late?

Yes sir!!

Gooden clears waivers tomorrow. We should know late tomorrow or Thursday for sure.

I know that NBA Coast to Coast on ESPN tonight will be talking about it.

8:30 CST

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 05:48 PM

Isn't there another forum to discuss religion? Thank you:}

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:48 PM

Yes sir!!

Gooden clears waivers tomorrow. We should know late tomorrow or Thursday for sure.

I know that NBA Coast to Coast on ESPN tonight will be talking about it.

8:30 CST

"You will deny me three times before this day is over"

Strike one.

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:50 PM

Isn't there another forum to discuss religion? Thank you:}

There's only like 630 threads discussing Gooden on this forum...your questions could be answerred in any of the many others discussing it...

So why are you here, in this one? Telling people what to talk about?

completely deck

03-03-2009, 05:50 PM

whottt give it a break.

whottt

03-03-2009, 05:53 PM

Here ya go:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118435&page=21

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118546

Tell me...exactly what is so different about the Gooden discussion in this thread VS those other two that it's absolutely essential for you two to regulate this one?

Furthermore, this is ST...and there's no such animal as hi-jacking threads here.

There's also no such thing as forum police here...plenty of other boards where there are though..where that sort of thing might even be appreciated.

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 05:59 PM

There's only like 630 threads discussing Gooden on this forum...your questions could be answerred in any of the many others discussing it...

So why are you here, in this one? Telling people what to talk about?

Take a chill pill Whottt-I enjoy sports that is why I am here. It's obvious this is a sports thread. I am not forcing you to do anything. Its crystal clear you can discuss other non sport related issues in the other forums. You're just being stubborn. Why am I surprised...sigh...

Perhaps a nice dinner with a glass of vino might relax you.:whine

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 06:03 PM

Yes,, I am the forum police. Whottt you are banned!! Marhill can stay and discuss whatever the hell he wants to discuss. However, you, Whottts will be fined! And, I will be taking all your vbookie cash until you straighten out.:cop:cop:cop

temujin

03-03-2009, 06:08 PM

1) In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum.

So at the beginning it was the Word.

Light came in as fourth, only.

4) in ipso vita erat, et vita erat lux hominum,

temujin

03-03-2009, 06:14 PM

I think the most spectacular argument is that Spurs should not hire Goodman not to irritate Bonner.

So if Oberto and Thomas are sent packing,
expect Bonner to average 30 and 15.

Manufan909

03-03-2009, 06:40 PM

Maybe if he always played the whole game and never fouled out. He'd have to play even crappier d, so as to stay in the game. Hope Gooden can improve on d before POs start, and have a rudimentary understanding of the Spurs system.

lefty

03-03-2009, 06:40 PM

http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsW/18459-24542.gif

It's not your fault. It's not your fault kid, it's not your fault.

:rollin

Budkin

03-03-2009, 06:44 PM

Drew Gooden!

Spursfan092120

03-03-2009, 07:32 PM

Not sure if this one was out there yet.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57667/20090303/gooden_to_spurs_nearly_a_done_deal/

Mar 03, 2009 4:49 PM EST
http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Gooden_Drew_chi.jpg The Spurs aren't saying anything on record about free agent Drew Gooden, but many around the league believe that he'll definitely join the team as soon as he clears waivers.
San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich has only acknowledged that the team is approaching the waiver wire "professionally."
In addition to Gooden, veterans Joe Smith and Stromile Swift received buyouts from their respective teams on Sunday night.
"We've got to do our work, just like everybody else," Popovich said. "So when there's a trade deadline, or waiver wires, we pay attention to it, like any other team would, because you're always trying to upgrade your team if you think you can."
Via San Antonio Express-News (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57667/20090303/gooden_to_spurs_nearly_a_done_deal/#)

Yorae

03-03-2009, 07:32 PM

Wow, the discussion's been this long while I was away eh....gooden will surely try interfere with bonner's shooting if he wears a lakers jersey.

Spursfan092120

03-03-2009, 07:37 PM

Something from Peter Vecsey at the NY Post

March 3, 2009
My sources assert the Lakers and Hornets - prepared to commit past this season to Smith - are giving the Cavs stiff competition. Cleveland also is in the running for Gooden, but someone in the know says he's leaning toward the Spurs over the Mavericks. Both will make their decision known today.
[email protected]

So I guess we're going to know tonight sometime?

SpursDynasty

03-03-2009, 07:41 PM

Okay so did we get Drew Gooden or not?

Dex

03-03-2009, 07:42 PM

Okay so did we get Drew Gooden or not?

Do you think someone was just waiting for you to ask the question before telling everybody?

If we get Go0den, trust me...you'll know.

gmanrulz

03-03-2009, 08:05 PM

Gooden, Smith Set To Decide

According to various reports we should have decisions from highly-regarded free agents Drew Gooden and Joe Smith some time this evening. The word is that each player is mulling options from the cast of title hopefuls, with the New Orleans Hornets and Los Angeles Lakers rumored to be willing to go multi-year to acquire their services.

The Dallas Mavericks made pitches to both players, having seen more and more instances when they could use a seven-footer with more versatility than Erick Dampier, but with teams like the Lakers, Spurs, Hornets and Cleveland Cavaliers all interested, the Mavs aren't considered favorites to land either player.

Spursmania

03-03-2009, 08:11 PM

Thanks gman. I hope we get some confirmed report tonight. If we land Gooden, I wonder what the extent of his injury really is? Damn injuries...

DannyT

03-03-2009, 08:38 PM

Gooden commits to signing with Spurs

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=AqwhX2LnI_9PcYIreRzdOws5nYcB?slug=aw-goodenspurs030309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Russ

03-03-2009, 08:40 PM

Gooden should fit right in with the Spurs.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/drew_award_070413.html

And . . .

As a professional, Gooden has established himself as a solid power forward, consistently bringing down double digit numbers in points and rebounds. He is also considered a good guy on and off the court, named one of the "Good Guys in Sports" by The Sporting News.

http://www.athletepromotions.com/athletes/Drew-Gooden-appearance-booking-agent.php

Big P

03-03-2009, 09:02 PM

Gooden SUCKS balls...no wonder every team he plays for always cut him off...

Pathetic spurm fans and their pathetic hopes ...

Right...& I guess your next post will be about how Stromile Swift is

going to put you over that playoff slump...Gooden>>>>>>>>>>>>>Swift.

We are basically getting him for nothing...we are still under the lux cap & will

gladly take teams like the Suns money because they overspent on over the

hill players...& before you say the Spurs did the same thing, I will say yes we

did, but the difference is we won MULTIPLE CHAMPIONSHIPS :lobt2: :flag:

It must really :depressed hurt that you could have a team of Rajon Rondo,

Luol Deng, Joe Johnson, Rudy Fernandez...etc...but instead chose Grant Hill

Matt Barnes & Barbosa...:wow:lmao

:flag:.