Kobe in loss

[mathbzh]

I was looking at Kobe statistics and noticed something about his Win/Loss season split.
In wins: 26.7 pts/5 ast in 36 minutes
In loss: 33.6 pts/4.8 ast in 40 minutes.

It was nothing really important for me until I checked these splits for the other NBA superstars and stars. Kobe is the only player who is scoring more (much more) in loss.

Sample:
Lebron: W: 29pts/7apg L: 26.8 pts / 7.2apg
DWade: W: 30.4 pts/7.5 apg L: 27.8 pts / 7.3 apg
CPaul: W: 23.9 pts/9.9 apg L: 22.2 / 10.7 apg.
And the list is going on.

I must admit I did not see Kobe playing in many losses this year.
So, I don't know if there is something behind that or if it is just a statistical aberration (12 losses is a small sample). But I have two questions:

- Could it be that the old Kobe (81 pts ) is still there, hide behind the perfect leader? Is it that he tries too hard when the game is tough?

- Could it be a problem during the playoffs? If a series is close, will he forget he is surrounded with great teammates?


Of course, it could just be that Kobe is a great player who has this extra gear his team needs when the game is close.
As I said, I don't watch the Lakers very often.
I open this thread only to understand why Kobe is the only player in that situation, not to bash him.

[2Cleva]

Problem is when the team often loses is because either guys don't have the focus - whether its tired legs like the last two games or guys just being flaky. In those situations, Kobe is going to step up to try and carry the load.

Kobe is the unquestioned Alpha dog in the league. A gift and a curse. And its not just among the Lakers - from All-Star games to Team USA - when the game gets close everyone - stars like LeBron, Wade, and Paul included - look for Kobe to bail him out.

It reminds me of the All-Star game a few years back. East won, iirc, but Kobe was going off late - matching everything the East did. On a late attempt he actually gave it up to Duncan - who just wasn't ready for it. But the pass surprised everyone because A - he was rolling and B - they just expected him to win the game for them.

[stretch]

On a late attempt he actually gave it up to Duncan - who just wasn't ready for it. But the pass surprised everyone because A - he was ball hogging and B - they just expected him to hog the ball more.

fixed

[TheMACHINE]

When Lakers are winning, Kobe sits more.. When they are losing, he has to take more shots and play more minutes.

The fact is...his stats are that way and they are #1 in the league.

[IronMexican]

Trade Kobe for Marbury.

[m33p0]

it says that his teammates suck when they're losing and kobester is willing to pick up the slack. nothing more.

[mathbzh]

Trade Kobe for Marbury.

I was expecting these kind of comments... :rolleyes

Trust me or not, I just try to understand why his stats are like they are and if it could be a weakness for the Lakers come playoffs time.

I also consider Kobe to be the best player in the league.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Ya ok and Duncan averages more shots attempted when the Spurs win compared to when they lose, it happens to nearly every team.

Instead of saying: "When Kobe takes more shots, the Lakers lose", the more accurate statement would be, "When the role players on LA suck and Kobe has to attempt to put the team on his back, the Lakers lose."

[mathbzh]

Ya ok and Duncan averages more shots attempted when the Spurs win compared to when they lose, it happens to nearly every team.

Instead of saying: "When Kobe takes more shots, the Lakers lose", the more accurate statement would be, "When the role players on LA suck and Kobe has to attempt to put the team on his back, the Lakers lose."

No it does not happen to nearly every team... this is very specific to Kobe.
Kobe is the ONLY major player who score more in loss than in win.

It could be a good thing for the Lakers, but it is a true singularity in the league.


Instead of saying: "When Kobe takes more shots, the Lakers lose", the more accurate statement would be, "When the role players on LA suck and Kobe has to attempt to put the team on his back, the Lakers lose."

One way or the other... I don't know if there is a "more accurate statement".
But you may be right...

Edit:
I never said "When Kobe takes more shots, the Lakers lose".
I just said "When the Lakers lose, Kobe takes more shots"

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No it does not happen to nearly every team... this is very specific to Kobe.
Kobe is the ONLY major player who score more in loss than in win.

OK well you changed it from shoot more to score more.....here's a list of other players who attempt more shots when their team losses:

LeBron James
Brandon Roy
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce


One way or the other... I don't know if there is a "more accurate statement". But you may be right...

They are both accurate, one is just misleading.

[IronMexican]

Trade Kobe for T-Mac.

[mathbzh]

OK well you changed it from shoot more to score more.....here's a list of other players who attempt more shots when their team losses:

LeBron James
Brandon Roy
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce


Ok, I did not check for Roy and Pierce (how could I forgot them?).

If you look at the FGA/min for these players.

Kobe: W 0.56 L 0.68 (+22%)
LeBron: W 0.53 L 0.55 (+4%)
Roy: W 0.44 L 0.48 (+9%)
Duncan:W 0.43 L 0.47 (+10%)
Pierce: W 0.38 L 0.38 (0%)

To some extend, Roy and Duncan are in the same situation (the difference is much more important in Kobe's case).
I did not realize that. I guess it is because it is less apparent that a 27 FGA/game in loss.

[TheMACHINE]

These are one of those times when numbers dont tell the whole story. Kobe is the type of guy who is willing to take a loss as long as he has to carry the load at the end. One of those "If we lose, i want the blame" type of attitudes. Those stats show it. They start to lose, he will shoot more....more impressively, out of the all the losses, what was the point margain? Some of those losses could have easily been wins.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Ok, I did not check for Roy and Pierce (how could I forgot them?).

If you look at the FGA/min for these players.

Kobe: W 0.56 L 0.68 (+22%)
LeBron: W 0.53 L 0.55 (+4%)
Roy: W 0.44 L 0.48 (+9%)
Duncan:W 0.43 L 0.47 (+10%)
Pierce: W 0.38 L 0.38 (0%)

To some extend, Roy and Duncan are in the same situation (the difference is much more important in Kobe's case).
I did not realize that. I guess it is because it is less apparent that a 27 FGA/game in loss.

Ya I completely understand what you're saying at first I just thought you were just making a stupid thread about Kobe being a "ball hog" and I've even gotten sick of hearing that.

Here's the problem with Kobe, he hasn't been the leader of this team long enough to know how to take control of a game but at the same time make sure his teammates don't start standing around and watching by keeping them involved. It's not really his fault but he's the only one with the power to fix the problem they have where their players start standing around when Kobe shoots.

[RedsLakers24]

Kobe plays less minutes in wins than in losses, and if you look at the the last minute of the games Kobe jacks up like 4 3's because they are down by a bunch and he's trying to get them back on the game, when teamates make shots kobe shoots less, when they are missing like in the denver game and the bench only scores 7 points kobe has to score more