Houston Chronicle: Stimulus to subsidize toll roads

[Winehole23]

$700 million eyed for toll projects (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6285483.html)

Grand Parkway's among 21 Texas roads in allocation

By ROSANNA RUIZ Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle

Feb. 27, 2009, 9:37PM


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http://www.chron.com/photos/2008/06/02/15492552/260xStory.jpg
Gary Fountain For the Chronicle

The Grand Parkway is among Texas roads where federal stimulus money will be spent.


(http://www.chron.com/apps/traffic/traffic.mpl)





The Texas Department of Transportation has set aside more than $700 million in economic stimulus funds for toll road projects across the state, sparking criticism and questions about whether the pay-to-drive roads are an appropriate use of the federal dollars.


The toll roads — including the Grand Parkway in Harris County — are among 21 major projects up for a vote at next week’s meeting of the Texas Transportation Commission in Austin. The commission had planned to vote on the list this week but delayed its consideration a week after at least one state legislator complained the money was being spent without enough input.


The delay has given opponents an opportunity to organize a lobbying effort aimed at persuading state leaders to withhold stimulus money from toll road projects.


“It’s a total rip-off,” said Terri Hall, director of Texans Uniting for Reform and Freedom, a nonprofit opposed to toll roads. “That’s not how the money is supposed to be used.”


TxDOT leaders and transportation planners defend the projects, saying all of them, including the toll roads, are important to their regions and offer tangible economic and mobility benefits.


“I think it’s unfortunate that the discussion about these funds has eclipsed the broader discussion about the state’s transportation needs,” TxDOT spokesman Chris Lippincott said.


The discussion should be on reducing gridlock now, said Rep. Jim Dunnam, D-Waco, whose criticism led the commission to postpone its vote. Toll roads should be built later with state money, not onetime federal stimulus funds, he said.

“The Legislature continues to vote for toll moratoriums,” he said, “and TxDOT keeps ignoring us.”


More fees for drivers

U.S. Rep. Pete Olson, R-Sugar Land, who sits on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, also questioned the use of stimulus funds on toll roads.


“It concerns me that state officials would prioritize toll projects that will hit already hard-pressed Texas drivers with additional fees,” he said in an e-mailed statement. “I would like to see stimulus dollars fund projects that ease not only congestion, but an over-taxed public as well.”


The economic stimulus bill does not address toll roads, only that proposed projects satisfy requirements to create jobs and promote economic growth, said Jim Berard, a spokesman for the U.S. House Transportation Committee.
In addition to $181 million for the Grand Parkway, TxDOT’s list includes an additional $50 million for four new ramps connecting the Eastex Freeway and Beltway 8.


The other toll road projects slated for stimulus funds are: $36 million for Texas 550 in Cameron County; $42.5 million for a toll road in Smith County; $144.9 million for Fort Worth’s Southwest Parkway; and $250 million for toll lanes along the Dallas-Fort Worth Connector.



Harris County Commissioner Steve Radack, whose precinct includes Segment E of the Grand Parkway, said the segment satisfies the federal stimulus mandate as a “shovel-ready” project. The Harris County Toll Road Authority would add $16.6 million to the project.

Prioritizing projects

The 15-mile project, he said, potentially will alleviate congestion on U.S. 290.



Citizens Transportation Coalition chairwoman Robin Holzer, who opposed the Commissioners Court’s vote on the Grand Parkway segment, said the state should spend stimulus money on projects other than toll roads that typically are used by a small portion of motorists.


“It’s incomprehensible that TxDOT could think that this is the most important project in the Houston District,” she said.



U.S. 290, she offered, could benefit more from the federal funding.
Radack countered that a planned overhaul of U.S. 290 is not at the appropriate stage for the stimulus funds.


The Grand Parkway and the other projects landed on TxDOT’s project list after extensive planning to identify projects that would improve safety, among other criteria, Lippincott said.


The proposed Grand Parkway would span 180 miles, circling around the Houston area, at a projected cost of $4.8 billion. Segment E calls for a 15-mile, four-lane toll road that would connect the Katy Freeway and U.S. 290 at an estimated cost of $330 million, according to the Harris County Toll Road Authority.



A tolled Segment E could finance other portions of the parkway, proponents say.



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[Winehole23]

700 million in stimulus billz for toll roads, yes or no?

[Extra Stout]

I can't speak for the projects in the rest of the state, but as for Houston:

The Beltway 8/Eastex Freeway ramps have a tangible mobility benefit.

The Grand Parkway segment is a boondoggle of corruption. It is a sop to developers against the will of Texas citizens. TxDOT keeps trying over and over and over again to push these things through, regardless of how often the people defeat them. At some point, the corrupt officials who actively undermine the clear will and interests of the people need to be shot if the government won't prosecute them or at least remove them from office. Maybe when their blood starts being shed, these bastards will get the message.

[Winehole23]

I can't speak for the projects in the rest of the state, but as for Houston:

The Beltway 8/Eastex Freeway ramps have a tangible mobility benefit.For an element.


The Grand Parkway segment is a boondoggle of corruption. It is a sop to developers against the will of Texas citizens. TxDOT keeps trying over and over and over again to push these things through, regardless of how often the people defeat them. At some point, the corrupt officials who actively undermine the clear will and interests of the people need to be shot if the government won't prosecute them or at least remove them from office. Maybe when their blood starts being shed, these bastards will get the message.The bolded echoes the bolded in the OP, and the rest of it speaks well enough for itself.

Oh that margarita is tart! :drunk

[JudynTX]

Is this toll road going from Mexico all the way thru to Canada? :lmao

[Winehole23]

Is this toll road going from Mexico all the way thru to Canada? :lmaoThe Texas segment is the *test* segment, I think.

[JudynTX]

The Texas segment is the *test* segment, I think.

:tu

[coyotes_geek]

TxDOT is notoriously horrible at public relations, but the legislature sure isn't doing them any favors here either. The need for added capacity should be apparent to everyone, yet the legislature continues to loot the gas tax fund for other purposes and refuses to consider raising the tax or coming up with an alternative source of funding. Be it for better or for worse TxDOT decided that instead of just sitting tight and letting the highway system deteriorate that they would pull and end-around on the legislature and get into toll roads. The legislature didn't like that and is now trying to cut off tolls as a funding source as well. Again, TxDOT's PR has been absolutely horrible, but there's no denying that they really are getting squeezed. Unless the legislature is willing to increase the gas tax or come up with some other funding mechanism, which can only be a tax of some other kind, the only two remaining options are toll roads or no roads.

So that being a long-winded set up to respond to WH23's question, should the state use stimulus money to build toll roads? I say yes. Not out of a desire to pay tolls, but out of a neccesity for new roads and a lack of any other alternative on how to pay for them. We can spend stimulus money to build toll roads which will generate revenue for other projects, or we can spend stimulus money to build "free" roads (which is misleading because there's no such thing) and wonder where we're going to find money for other projects we need.

[Winehole23]

Be it for better or for worse TxDOT decided that instead of just sitting tight and letting the highway system deteriorate that they would pull and end-around on the legislature and get into toll roads. The legislature didn't like that and is now trying to cut off tolls as a funding source as well. Again, TxDOT's PR has been absolutely horrible, but there's no denying that they really are getting squeezed.Ouch. That hurts.


the only two remaining options are toll roads or no roads. Stark.



So that being a long-winded set up to respond to WH23's question, should the state use stimulus money to build toll roads? I say yes.. out of a neccesity for new roads and a lack of any other alternative on how to pay for them. We can spend stimulus money to build toll roads which will generate revenue for other projects, or we can spend stimulus money to build "free" roads (which is misleading because there's no such thing) and wonder where we're going to find money for other projects we need.Aren't the toll roads a public/private collaboration?

When do the private investors start getting the tolls? I know zilch about this. Does the private end of the deal dent the gross for the government?

[jack sommerset]

Toll roads BLOW. My friend pays over 1000 dollars a year in tolls. WTF? He travels about 20 miles a day on the toll roads. I avoid them for the most part.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Nice. I live off the grand parkway!

:hat

[coyotes_geek]

Aren't the toll roads a public/private collaboration?

When do the private investors start getting the tolls? I know zilch about this. Does the private end of the deal dent the gross for the government?

There are still some quasi-public institutions in the toll road business like NTTA and HCTRA, but pretty much anything that TxDOT is involved in these days is public/private. Public/private agreements differ from project to project, but generally they work like this. A private developer funds the design, construction, operation and maintenance out of his own pocket and in return he gets to keep the lion's share of the toll revenue for a defined period of time. TxDOT gets a road built without having to come up with any money themselves, plus a cut of the toll revenue. The developer has made an investment that he hopes to turn a profit on via the toll revenue.

[Winehole23]

The developer has made an investment that he hopes to turn a profit on via the toll revenue.Do we know when the defined period of private exploits ends? I am assuming it is a generational number. Twenty or thirty years? Longer?

[coyotes_geek]

Do we know when the defined period of private exploits ends? I am assuming it is a generational number. Twenty or thirty years? Longer?

Varies by project. I've seen them run as long as 50 years.

[Blake]

People are suffering economically and we are going to use $700 mill of the stimulus for roads? I don't care if they are toll or not, I think it's not something we need to use the money for at the moment.

We need to put the priority on getting money back into the hands of our citizens while also focus some on education. Put the $700 mill into one giant superball lotto pot in the Texas Lottery.

[ChumpDumper]

Roads = jobs and useful infrastructure.

Using the stimulus money for toll roads is horrible though. Finish the fucking flyover at 290 and I35 first, idiots!

[Winehole23]

Using the stimulus money for toll roads is horrible though. Finish the fucking flyover at 290 and I35 first, idiots!Intuitive even in 1986 when I arrived in Austin, though it was not needed then.

[Blake]

so Austin still doesn't have a loop? SA is subtly working on a third.

I friggin hate driving on 35 thru that downtown.

[coyotes_geek]

You could spend $700 million in Austin alone and it still wouldn't be enough.

[ChumpDumper]

so Austin still doesn't have a loop? SA is subtly working on a third.

I friggin hate driving on 35 thru that downtown.They are somehow pretending that SH 45 could be a loop, but the western portion look like it would be too difficult to implement. Development to the east should be a piece of cake if they ever figure out how to extend east-west roads that already exist.

[Winehole23]

so Austin still doesn't have a loop? SA is subtly working on a third.There are sensitive environmental issues there. Aquifer recharge zone. It won't happen anytime soon.


I friggin hate driving on 35 thru that downtown.You could probably sell t-shirts and gimme caps bearing that sentiment if you got too hard up.

[ChumpDumper]

Those people who overdeveloped the hill country can stay in traffic forever as far as I'm concerned. It's just ridiculous seeing those ramps to nowhere year after year.

[coyotes_geek]

so Austin still doesn't have a loop? SA is subtly working on a third.

I friggin hate driving on 35 thru that downtown.

The Austin loop concept is pretty much dead. As WH pointed out too many environmental issues on the SW quadrant between I-35 & Mopac. The best it will ever get is I-35 through traffic being able to bypass downtown Austin via SH45 SE and SH130 (tolled). Then one day someone will be able to push through an idea with what to do with I-35 through downtown, and a very unhappy decade in the history of Austin can commence.

[ChumpDumper]

Going to the airport on 130 during rush hour is great, btw.

[Winehole23]

Going to the airport on 130 during rush hour is great, btw.130 is the bomb.

[AntiChrist]

Better roads make people want to spend more money. Wait and see.

[Winehole23]

AntiChrist with a sly topical innuendo and an slightly ominous wait and see. It's improving.

[spurster]

Toll roads are fine if the money goes back to Texas where maybe it will do some good. Part of the outrage about some of TXDOT plans is to privatize it, to big campaign contributors, I suppose.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

so gas taxes pay for roads... now stimulus inflation (tax) will pay for roads ... and finally -- we'll get to pay tolls too!

How many times over can we get fucked?

[Winehole23]

How many times over can we get fucked?Rhetorical, right?

[Indazone]

oh crap spend more money to make more money. The Toll rolls are a new tax on the American people.

[coyotes_geek]

so gas taxes pay for roads... now stimulus inflation (tax) will pay for roads ... and finally -- we'll get to pay tolls too!

How many times over can we get fucked?

No different than having income taxes taken out of your paycheck so that when you go buy something you pay the corporate income taxes that get passed along in the cost of whatever it is you're buying, and then pay sales tax on top of that.

[CubanMustGo]

Roads = jobs and useful infrastructure.

Using the stimulus money for toll roads is horrible though. Finish the fucking flyover at 290 and I35 first, idiots!

Which one? There are two, you know.

They announced a little while back that funding had been found to complete the 290-W (Ben White) / I-35 interchange, but not 290-E (2222) / I-35, or 183 / I-35, or Toll 45 / I-35, or ...

Austin is the only major city I've seen that never builds complete four-way interchanges. I think the only one we have is Mopac / 183. Must be all those Aggie engineers at TxDOT sticking it to us.

[Winehole23]

Must be all those Aggie engineers at TxDOT sticking it to us.:lol

[coyotes_geek]

For those interested in seeing what TxDOT wants to do with the stimulus money.......

ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/stimulus/project_list_030509.pdf

[ChumpDumper]

Which one? There are two, you know.

They announced a little while back that funding had been found to complete the 290-W (Ben White) / I-35 interchange, but not 290-E (2222) / I-35, or 183 / I-35, or Toll 45 / I-35, or ...That's the main one, but yeah, they're all stupid.


Austin is the only major city I've seen that never builds complete four-way interchanges. I think the only one we have is Mopac / 183. Must be all those Aggie engineers at TxDOT sticking it to us.Even that one sucks because the most critical parts of it (southbond Mopac and northbound 183) are choked off to two lanes to accommodate the ramps.

[Winehole23]

For those interested in seeing what TxDOT wants to do with the stimulus money.......

ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/stimulus/project_list_030509.pdfThe pernt. Thanks, CG.

567,717,174 recommended ARRA dollars and nearly 1.5 bil in construction costs.

Almost half of ARRA funds go to a "D/FW connector."