Who is more clutch?

[nsrammstein]

Which player is the most clutch?

Dirk
or
Duncan?

[dirk4mvp]

4 rings, faggot!

[BlackSwordsMan]

4 rings faggot

[nsrammstein]

4 rings, faggot!

Thanks for your info, but my question was who was more clutch in terms of making crucial shots in a basketball game. I didn't ask how Duncan has ridden the cottails of Robinson, Ginobili, and Parker in order to obtain those 4 rings.

[Dinamita]

Duncan.

[Pelicans78]

I wonder if Dirk has made more clutch shots. Seems Manu makes most of the Spurs big shots or Big Shot Bob in the past.

[Dinamita]

RodiAAns6Jk

[Dinamita]

RodiAAns6Jk

duncans shot was clutch :p:

[Hemotivo]

dirk is a way better shooter

but duncan can have the ball in the final moments and make something happen'
(like an ast or a foul or even make his shots)


i voted 4 dirk

[sook]

the guy that hit a fucking 3 to tie a playoff game especially since it was his first attemp all year

[Showtime24 LAKERS]

Kobe Bryant, Mr. Clutch :king

[scanry]

Kobe Bryant, Mr. Clutch :king

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

Can you not stop sucking Kobe's tiny kahunas!! BTW Mr Clutch is a title that will be forever synonymous with Michael Jordan & Jerry West.

The great ones make clutch shots in the Finals and Jordan & West had plenty of those. :wow:wow

[baseline bum]

Unless you count missing free throws with no time on the clock as clutch, gotta go with Duncan.

[TDfan2007]

Tim. But it's closer than people may think.

[djohn2oo8]

dirk is really clutch

Y7cG9NrfhM0

[MI21]

Duncan.

Dirk ain't to bad though. He has hit plenty of game winners in his career...and usually plays like Larry Bird against the Spurs.

[dirk4mvp]

dirk is really clutch

Y7cG9NrfhM0



Besides T-Back's 13 in 35, do the Rockets have any clutch shots this decade?

[angelbelow]

4 rings faggot

[Tbam327]

Clutch you Idiots not who has the most titles.....Dirk I would let him try for the last shot everytime.!!!! vs Duncan I think overall Duncan is better but clutch no way just look at all his last second shots are misses even layups and under rim shots....

[Chomag]

Is this a trick question?

[Indazone]

nsrammstein, you should no better than to ask that question here. Let the Mavs bashing begin LOL

[Lars]

Can't really argue with the Duncan three pointer. I mean thats just ballsy.

[Spursfan092120]

Thanks for your info, but my question was who was more clutch in terms of making crucial shots in a basketball game. I didn't ask how Duncan has ridden the cottails of Robinson, Ginobili, and Parker in order to obtain those 4 rings.

Duncan has ridden David, Manu, and Tony's coattails? Are you stupid, insane, or asinine? Wow..that has got to be one of the dumbest comments ever ever.

[nsrammstein]

Duncan has ridden David, Manu, and Tony's coattails? Are you stupid, insane, or asinine? Wow..that has got to be one of the dumbest comments ever ever.


Has Duncan ever won a ring without the support of atleast 1 other really good all star player?

Dirk almost did it by himself in 2006

[nsrammstein]

H8pw7iRU3MY

[Bob Lanier]

There's no such thing as clutch.

[KidCongo]

I missed a game-winner tonight. Duncan would have hit it.

[TD4THREE]

Has Duncan ever won a ring without the support of atleast 1 other really good all star player?

Dirk almost did it by himself in 2006Don't even know why I'm going to argue this with you if you honestly believe Duncan rode the coattails of Drob to any of his titles. But for your information he won it in 03 while being the only all star on the team. And :lol at "almost"

[dirk4mvp]

The definition of clutch is a bit skewed when KG is featured in the clutch commercial.

[m33p0]

has duncan ever won a ring without the support of atleast 1 other really good all star player?

Dirk almost did it by himself in 2006
2003.

[m33p0]

The definition of clutch is a bit skewed when KG is featured in the clutch commercial.
of course he's clutch. he sweats gatorade, pumps fists and chest pounds. plus, he is a menace to small european guards. if that ain't clutch, i don't know what is.

[nkdlunch]

is this a joke?

NBA Finals:
Duncan 4-0
Dirk 0-1

[Rogue]

of course he's clutch.
no, this is clutch http://www.nba.com/media/rockets/hp_bottomAdsV022309.jpg and a couple of other es.

[Hook Dem]

Has Duncan ever won a ring without the support of atleast 1 other really good all star player?

Dirk almost did it by himself in 2006

Unfortunately, "almost" only counts in horseshoes!

[m33p0]

no, this is clutch http://www.nba.com/media/rockets/hp_bottomAdsV022309.jpg and a couple of other es.
now i know why the rocket mascot has a funny grin on his face.

[ElNono]

Duncan and Dirk shouldn't even be anywhere near the same sentence. Much less have a thread comparing them. A better thread would be Duncan vs Shaq.

[phyzik]

dNCjH7tAAOo

/THREAD

[Ghazi]

Luck

[HORNSWOGGLE]

Has Duncan ever won a ring without the support of atleast 1 other really good all star player?

Dirk almost did it by himself in 2006
"Almost" only got him a western conference trophy :lol

[Spursmania]

Yeah, Dirk is so clutch his team choked away a championship in 2006. No way, I can't even answer this question as I don't think Dirk makes clutch shots WHEN IT COUNTS. Please don't talk to me about his free throws.

That said, we'll take Dirk anytime but not to make clutch shots.

[Spursmania]

"Almost" only got him a western conference trophy :lol

There is no "almost" in the NBA. You either did it or you didn't.
Come on!
:hat

[Shank]

Wow. Duncan hit a wide-open 3.

82games.com did a spread of "clutch" numbers about a year ago and showed that Dirk is among the best in the league when it comes to "clutch" play. But people would rather remember his missteps rather than his impressive late-game play.

In a tie game, :10 left, Dirk can do more to get the win than Duncan could.

[ElNono]

Wow. Duncan hit a wide-open 3.

82games.com did a spread of "clutch" numbers about a year ago and showed that Dirk is among the best in the league when it comes to "clutch" play. But people would rather remember his missteps rather than his impressive late-game play.

In a tie game, :10 left, Dirk can do more to get the win than Duncan could.

You mean during irrelevant regular season games?
And we would remember more memorable Dirk moments in the playoffs if there would be any of them besides the and1 against the Spurs in '06.

[HORNSWOGGLE]

Wow. Duncan hit a wide-open 3.

82games.com did a spread of "clutch" numbers about a year ago and showed that Dirk is among the best in the league when it comes to "clutch" play. But people would rather remember his missteps rather than his impressive late-game play.

In a tie game, :10 left, Dirk can do more to get the win than Duncan could.
so for a regular season win its dirk, to carry a team to a championship its duncan

[Ghazi]

You mean during irrelevant regular season games?
And we would remember more memorable Dirk moments in the playoffs if there would be any of them besides the and1 against the Spurs in '06.


The 50 point game against the Suns doesn't count?

Or what about the shot that should've won the Finals in game 5 over Shaq, but is swept under the rug due to a bullshit foul deciding the game?

What about his 4-0 record in game 7s.

Beloved Dirk has had far greater playoff achievements than shortcomings. The GS series is an aberration, not the norm. Even in that series our Dirk did indeed display brilliance in game 5.

And I love how regular season games are "irrelevant". you do realize that if you do not win enough regular season games you don't get a trip to the big dance...

[Shank]

You mean during irrelevant regular season games?
And we would remember more memorable Dirk moments in the playoffs if there would be any of them besides the and1 against the Spurs in '06.

But that wasn't part of the question, was it? If you want to specify playoffs, then start another poll and do so.

Do we need to go back and pull out playoff games where Dirk came up big? I can tell you he's had more "clutch" play in his time in the playoffs than Duncan. Aside from that 3 (thanks to shitty rotation from the Suns) - let's have some more of the Duncan "clutch" resume.

And to clarify things - team wins aren't defined as "clutch". We're talking about late in the 4th, game on the line, someone needs to step up and make something happen. You can point out the 4 rings all you want, but that's not part of the conversation. Some are being sidetracked and heading into "4 rings, faggot" territory when that's not the question being asked.

I'll happily sacrifice that, while he (Dirk) put up good overall numbers in the Miami series, his late-game play wasn't exactly stellar. But he's had plenty of "clutch" playoff performances where he put the team on his back and carried them. Not of this is slighting Duncan in any way. I just think that people like to rabidly attack Dirk's faults and are quick to ignore his accomplishments.

[HORNSWOGGLE]

The 50 point game against the Suns doesn't count?

Or what about the shot that should've won the Finals in game 5 over Shaq, but is swept under the rug due to a bullshit foul deciding the game?

What about his 4-0 record in game 7s.

Beloved Dirk has had far greater playoff achievements than shortcomings. The GS series is an aberration, not the norm. Even in that series our Dirk did indeed display brilliance in game 5.

And I love how regular season games are "irrelevant". you do realize that if you do not win enough regular season games you don't get a trip to the big dance...
most of those game 7s, are series leads they they almost choked away

[Sportstudi]

But that wasn't part of the question, was it? If you want to specify playoffs, then start another poll and do so.

Do we need to go back and pull out playoff games where Dirk came up big? I can tell you he's had more "clutch" play in his time in the playoffs than Duncan. Aside from that 3 (thanks to shitty rotation from the Suns) - let's have some more of the Duncan "clutch" resume.

And to clarify things - team wins aren't defined as "clutch". We're talking about late in the 4th, game on the line, someone needs to step up and make something happen. You can point out the 4 rings all you want, but that's not part of the conversation. Some are being sidetracked and heading into "4 rings, faggot" territory when that's not the question being asked.

I'll happily sacrifice that, while he (Dirk) put up good overall numbers in the Miami series, his late-game play wasn't exactly stellar. But he's had plenty of "clutch" playoff performances where he put the team on his back and carried them. Not of this is slighting Duncan in any way. I just think that people like to rabidly attack Dirk's faults and are quick to ignore his accomplishments.

Are you wondering about that? You are in a Spurs-forum. Some people (not all) bash Dallas and especially Dirk just for the sake of bashing. It doesn't has to do anything with logical arguments. Btw, I do not want to discredit Duncan in any way. Recently there was a poll here naming Duncan a 1 and Dirk a 1.5 player. Based on their achieved milestones so far, I can deal with that. And I do not have a problem to name Duncan the best PF ever. But it is not fair only to attack Dirk's faults but not to mention his accomplishments during his career. Dirk is simply an amazing player.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-38-256/The-TrueHoop-Network-Shootaround.html

The TrueHoop Network Shootaround

March 2, 2009 12:08 PM

Invisibility isn't necessarily a bad thing for Dirk Nowitzki. Norm Van Lier was anything but invisible in the pantheon of Chicago Bulls legends...but Josh Smith was in Atlanta's tough loss to the Cavs. Gain some visibility at The TrueHoop Network:

Dirk Nowitzki

Rob Mahoney of The Two Man Game: "Dirk only had 24 points (8-19 FG), 10 rebounds, and 5 assists. Yawn. His typical brilliance was trumped only by his usual subtlety, 'invisibly' anchoring the Mavs' attack. (On another note: why is the word invisible always used as a pejorative when it comes to basketball? There's something wonderful about blunt domination, but I can see the advantages of killing an opponent without their knowing they're being killed.) Howard continues to boggle the mind. His 16 points tells you he did fine on the offensive end, which is true. But 0 steals and 0 blocks? Just another example of the deception of the box score. The team continues to excel whenever Howard hits the floor, and his somewhat empty stat line is balanced by a +15 for the game. Well done, chaps.

As someone who has watched Dirk's entire career, I feel obligated to comment on Andrea Bargnani. Dirk was the hopeful projection when Toronto drafted Bargs with the 1st overall pick, and it's kind of silly. It's not that Bargnani isn't talented, or that he doesn't have some of Dirk's skills. Their approaches to the game are just fundamentally different. Dirk's ungodly efficiency is a product of a natural high ground, a high release, and a sweet shooting stroke. What he lacks in athleticism and mobility he makes up for in footwork and precision. Bargnani doesn't share Dirk's dominant shooting touch, as much as he loves to shoot. But he does show a willingness and an ability to drive and finish, which is something in it's own right. He's 23 and has all the time in the world, but for those still hoping to see Dirk 2.0, keep this in mind: Nowitzki is the exception, not the rule. There has never been a player that combined Dirk's size and shooting touch, and it may not be so soon before we see another."

Yes, I know, the last part doesn't deal with the topic of the thread, but I think it's worth to mention.

[dirk4mvp]

In a tie game, :10 left, Dirk can do more to get the win than Duncan could.

If this is the scenario, there's maybe 2 to 4 guys I'd rather have shooting in the league than Dirk.

[dirk4mvp]

Also, if we're using team wins, which isn't part of the discussion, has Duncan ever won a game 7 in overtime on the other team's court?

[Warlord23]

Also, if we're using team wins, which isn't part of the discussion, has Duncan ever won a game 7 in overtime on the other team's court?

New Orleans Hornets, 2008

Also, four rings faggot

[Warlord23]

New Orleans Hornets, 2008

Also, four rings faggot

K, so it wasn't OT. But it was impressive all the same

[dirk4mvp]

New Orleans Hornets, 2008

Also, four rings faggot

That wasn't overtime, smart guy.

The Mav's game 7 opponent was better than the Spurs game 7 opponent.

[dirk4mvp]

K, so it wasn't OT. But it was impressive all the same

Not as impressive as the game 7 ot win in 06.

[ElNono]

Also, if we're using team wins, which isn't part of the discussion, has Duncan ever won a game 7 in overtime on the other team's court?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe last year's game 7 against the Hornets is the first TD game 7 on the road. And obviously, it didn't get to overtime. I just don't think series have extended past 6 games much in the Duncan era. The only other series I remember being 7 games is the NBA Finals against Detroit in '05.

This is actually a testament to how consistently good the Spurs have been in the Duncan era.

[DPG21920]

Not as impressive as the game 7 ot win in 06.

This is on the same level as using "4 rings faggot".

[Sportstudi]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe last year's game 7 against the Hornets is the first TD game 7 on the road. And obviously, it didn't get to overtime. I just don't think series have extended past 6 games much in the Duncan era. The only other series I remember being 7 games is the NBA Finals against Detroit in '05.

This is actually a testament to how consistently good the Spurs have been in the Duncan era.

You forgot 06. But yes, the Spurs played pretty well during the Duncan era

[dirk4mvp]

This is on the same level as using "4 rings faggot".

I'm glad you caught on.

[Warlord23]

To answer the original question:

If it came to actually taking clutch shots, I'd rather let Dirk take it than Duncan. Not because of any tangible difference in clutchness, but because Dirk has a better offensive repertoire.

However, if we are talking about who I'd rather have on my team in crunch time, I'd take Duncan every time. Duncan has made numerous clutch blocks and defensive plays, for which he doesn't get enough credit. He's a more clutch rebounder as well, but again those things don't make the highlight reels so people never talk about them.

[Sportstudi]

To answer the original question:

If it came to actually taking clutch shots, I'd rather let Dirk take it than Duncan. Not because of any tangible difference in clutchness, but because Dirk has a better offensive repertoire.

However, if we are talking about who I'd rather have on my team in crunch time, I'd take Duncan every time. Duncan has made numerous clutch blocks and defensive plays, for which he doesn't get enough credit. He's a more clutch rebounder as well, but again those things don't make the highlight reels so people never talk about them.

I can live with that.

[ElNono]

The 50 point game against the Suns doesn't count?

The D'Antoni SSOL 'We don't play defense' Suns?


Or what about the shot that should've won the Finals in game 5 over Shaq, but is swept under the rug due to a bullshit foul deciding the game?

Soft and overrated.



What about his 4-0 record in game 7s.


Duncan, I believe, is 2-1 in game 7s. Furthermore, Duncan has never been eliminated in the first round.


Beloved Dirk has had far greater playoff achievements than shortcomings. The GS series is an aberration, not the norm. Even in that series our Dirk did indeed display brilliance in game 5.

If you have to single out the only game where he decided to show up to play, you're making my point for me. Was the Hornets series an aberration too?


And I love how regular season games are "irrelevant". you do realize that if you do not win enough regular season games you don't get a trip to the big dance...

When you have star players like Duncan, the regular season *IS* irrelevant. You just use it as a warm up to the real season.

[ElNono]

You forgot 06. But yes, the Spurs played pretty well during the Duncan era

Oh yes... the Mavericks, of course.

[ElNono]

But that wasn't part of the question, was it? If you want to specify playoffs, then start another poll and do so.

Do we need to go back and pull out playoff games where Dirk came up big? I can tell you he's had more "clutch" play in his time in the playoffs than Duncan. Aside from that 3 (thanks to shitty rotation from the Suns) - let's have some more of the Duncan "clutch" resume.

And to clarify things - team wins aren't defined as "clutch". We're talking about late in the 4th, game on the line, someone needs to step up and make something happen. You can point out the 4 rings all you want, but that's not part of the conversation. Some are being sidetracked and heading into "4 rings, faggot" territory when that's not the question being asked.

I'll happily sacrifice that, while he (Dirk) put up good overall numbers in the Miami series, his late-game play wasn't exactly stellar. But he's had plenty of "clutch" playoff performances where he put the team on his back and carried them. Not of this is slighting Duncan in any way. I just think that people like to rabidly attack Dirk's faults and are quick to ignore his accomplishments.

I would need to dust off the old tapes, but anything before '05, where we used to play 4-down almost religiously is Duncan taking the game-winning shot. Shit, even during the Detroit series in '05.

[Ghazi]

Dirk averaged 26.8/12 in the Hornets series.

It's not his fault only 2 other guys showed up and J-Blunt shot 28%.

There were no "clutch" moments to be had in that series anyway as none of the 5 games went down to the wire.

[ElNono]

Dirk averaged 26.8/12 in the Hornets series.

It's not his fault only 2 other guys showed up and J-Blunt shot 28%.

There were no "clutch" moments to be had in that series anyway as none of the 5 games went down to the wire.

True and Dirk was coming back from an injury. :toast

[DPG21920]

I'm glad you caught on.

So keep up the d-bag work :tu

[Ghazi]

Hakeem, Duncan, Abdul Jabbar, Shaq are low post players.

Kobe, Jordan, D-Whistle, Magic... these guys are primary ball handlers.

It is why these guys are the centerpieces of championships and have tremendous impact on the game.

Dirk's impact isn't as great as these players simply because he isn't a low post player, or primary ball handler. His style is unconventional and he thrives in isolations.

Furthermore, he's just average defensively (when he's trying). it's just the way it is, he isn't that strong and his lateral quickness isn't that great. He lacks great leaping ability and explosiveness so he can't excel with regard to steals and blocks either. I'm not gonna criticize someone for being built to be a marginal defender, only someone who has the tools to be a great defender but doesn't utilize them, someone like Amare.

This is why you see stretches in games where Dirk vanishes. Of course, more often than not, he is having a tremendous impact on the offensive end of the floor. But here and there, in the regular season and the playoffs, he'll have some woeful performances such as 2-13 against the Warriors, 3-16 against the Cheat in the blowout game 4, 4-18 against the Rockets the other day. Etc. It's just the way he is, we take the good with the bad because the good far offsets the bad.

We see many defenses cheat toward our beloved Dirk, due to a lack of offensive talent from the 1, 2, and 5 positions for the Mavs this year. Which is why the Mavs struggle at times in halfcourt offense.

So it can definitely be said Dirk's style is such that it takes more talent around him to win a title. And can he be the centerpiece of a championship team? I'd say no due to the aformentioned "flaws", even though we won it all in 2006.

But all of this really shouldn't be held against Nowitzki. He is what he is, an unconventional PF and one of the best of all time. Not everyone can be a centerpiece of a championship. isn't that what makes a championship special? Surely if there was 10-15 guys in the league that could be Batmans on a championship team, than winning a championship wouldn't be a big deal. But there are only 3-4 I'd say, and Nowitzki is excluded, but there should be no shame in that. And our beloved fanbase shouldn't be critical of him for that. Every team has a horse they ride, and ours is Dirk. Just because he isn't a championship horse shouldn't upset us. Anyone got any better ideas? Are the Cavs willing to trade Lebron for Dirk? Can we get D-Whistle or Kobe for Dirk? No, so we live and die with our horse, the horse who delivered us a 2006 championship.

Criticize players for their attitudes, for underachieving, for being cancers, not for being beloved Dirk.

I've never really felt Dirk's shortcomings are due to mentality, isn't choking mental? Dirk is confident, and has hit many big shots. But due to the fact that he isn't a primary ball handler, due to the fact that he isn't a low post player, due to the worst officiated Finals in the history of the NBA, and due to some fluke bullshit halfcourt shots by the Warriors, there's a misconception that he's weak mentally or doesn't step up in the big games.

As for his "leadership", I really don't buy that Dirk isn't a leader. As the best player of the team, he is a leader. And he did indeed lead us, all the way to the 2006 championship, with a brilliant 50 point game against the Suns, a 37/15 Game 7 and clutch and 1 against the Spurs, the huge shot against the Grizzlies. Isn't all of this leadership?. I just don't know what people mean by "leadership", Kidd was brought in here to be a "leader" and it's not working out for us at all. Leadership is an overrated intangible, so I won't hold it against Dirk if he isn't a "leader" (again, I don't even know what leader means).


God bless our beloved Dirk. and I do hope one day he can find the ring he deserves from 2006, whether it be with the Mavs or with another team. He deserves it considering the horseshit officiating.

[Sportstudi]

Hakeem, Duncan, Abdul Jabbar, Shaq are low post players.

Kobe, Jordan, D-Whistle, Magic... these guys are primary ball handlers.

It is why these guys are the centerpieces of championships and have tremendous impact on the game.

Dirk's impact isn't as great as these players simply because he isn't a low post player, or primary ball handler. His style is unconventional and he thrives in isolations.

Furthermore, he's just average defensively (when he's trying). it's just the way it is, he isn't that strong and his lateral quickness isn't that great. He lacks great leaping ability and explosiveness so he can't excel with regard to steals and blocks either. I'm not gonna criticize someone for being built to be a marginal defender, only someone who has the tools to be a great defender but doesn't utilize them, someone like Amare.

This is why you see stretches in games where Dirk vanishes. Of course, more often than not, he is having a tremendous impact on the offensive end of the floor. But here and there, in the regular season and the playoffs, he'll have some woeful performances such as 2-13 against the Warriors, 3-16 against the Cheat in the blowout game 4, 4-18 against the Rockets the other day. Etc. It's just the way he is, we take the good with the bad because the good far offsets the bad.

We see many defenses cheat toward our beloved Dirk, due to a lack of offensive talent from the 1, 2, and 5 positions for the Mavs this year. Which is why the Mavs struggle at times in halfcourt offense.

So it can definitely be said Dirk's style is such that it takes more talent around him to win a title. And can he be the centerpiece of a championship team? I'd say no due to the aformentioned "flaws", even though we won it all in 2006.

But all of this really shouldn't be held against Nowitzki. He is what he is, an unconventional PF and one of the best of all time. Not everyone can be a centerpiece of a championship. isn't that what makes a championship special? Surely if there was 10-15 guys in the league that could be Batmans on a championship team, than winning a championship wouldn't be a big deal. But there are only 3-4 I'd say, and Nowitzki is excluded, but there should be no shame in that. And our beloved fanbase shouldn't be critical of him for that. Every team has a horse they ride, and ours is Dirk. Just because he isn't a championship horse shouldn't upset us. Anyone got any better ideas? Are the Cavs willing to trade Lebron for Dirk? Can we get D-Whistle or Kobe for Dirk? No, so we live and die with our horse, the horse who delivered us a 2006 championship.

Criticize players for their attitudes, for underachieving, for being cancers, not for being beloved Dirk.

I've never really felt Dirk's shortcomings are due to mentality, isn't choking mental? Dirk is confident, and has hit many big shots. But due to the fact that he isn't a primary ball handler, due to the fact that he isn't a low post player, due to the worst officiated Finals in the history of the NBA, and due to some fluke bullshit halfcourt shots by the Warriors, there's a misconception that he's weak mentally or doesn't step up in the big games.

As for his "leadership", I really don't buy that Dirk isn't a leader. As the best player of the team, he is a leader. And he did indeed lead us, all the way to the 2006 championship, with a brilliant 50 point game against the Suns, a 37/15 Game 7 and clutch and 1 against the Spurs, the huge shot against the Grizzlies. Isn't all of this leadership?. I just don't know what people mean by "leadership", Kidd was brought in here to be a "leader" and it's not working out for us at all. Leadership is an overrated intangible, so I won't hold it against Dirk if he isn't a "leader" (again, I don't even know what leader means).


God bless our beloved Dirk. and I do hope one day he can find the ring he deserves from 2006, whether it be with the Mavs or with another team. He deserves it considering the horseshit officiating.

Nice one Ghazi, although you should please stop to write "we won it all in 2006". We didn't win it all and that's a fact. Nobody can change that. Well, the reasons are well known and I don't have a problem to write it again that the officiating was nothing but bullshit. IMO, Stern didn't (and still does not) like Cubes as well as Salvatore didn't/doesn't (okay, who in the league likes him outside Dallas?). In terms of marketing, it was an easy pick to choose the Heat. There was one article (http://theabsolutebestblog.blogspot.com/, in which the author wrote it perfectly.

---

The Miami Heat have Dwyane Wade, one of the best players in the NBA and People Magazine’s “50 Most Beautiful People.” The Heat have Pat Riley, the championship-winning Head Coach. The Heat have Shaquille O’Neal, and while he definitely won’t be mistaken for De Niro, the Big Malapropism is still the NBA’s Fonz. And yes, the Heat have the bright lights and beautiful people of South Beach.

The Dallas Mavericks best player, Dirk Nowitzki, is a lanky German that resembles Scooby-Doo’s Shaggy. The Mavericks Head Coach, Avery Johnson, sounds like he just inhaled a balloon-full of helium. The Mavericks Owner, Mark Cuban, is an ex-computer geek so uncool he makes Technology Kip look Fonz-like. And once again, Dallas’ backdrop ain’t got jack on Miami’s.

Based on marketability, that’s an easy pick. Right?

That’s just the thing—you don’t pick in sports. Ever hear the expressions “let ‘em play” or “may the best man win?” Sure, they are trite, but they are also true. The reason we fell in love with sports in the first place is because sometimes History writes better storylines than we could ever conceive ourselves. I say let History pick up the quills and do its thing.

Unfortunately, NBA Commissioner David Stern doesn’t agree.

Not only has Stern and his regime favored the Heat during these NBA Finals because of the abovementioned reasons, but also because of his disdain for Cuban. Let’s just say that Cuban and Stern have had some tiffs in the past, usually over the policies of the league and the performance of its officials.

As a result of both the appeal of the Miami Heat and his hatred of Cuban, Stern seems hell-bent on making O’Neal and Wade Miami’s most popular duo since Vice’s Sonny Crockett and Rico Tubbs.

Since I’ve made the accusations, here is the evidence…

The Odds are Stack-ed Against ‘Em

In Game 4, Mavs G Jerry Stackhouse impeded what would have been an easy Shaq dunk with what used to be a "good, clean, hard foul." In fact, even the refs officiating the game didn’t believe that the foul was excessive. They only issued Stackhouse a Flagrant One foul. I think Wade’s knee-jerk reaction to mediate a potential fight made the foul look more severe than it actually was.

Stackhouse is a well-respected player that has been accused of being “soft,” but never, ever of being a bully. He simply wanted to keep Shaq, a horrendous free-throw shooter, from getting two easy points. That is no easy task. Stackhouse had no idea how hard he would have to contact Shaq in order to prevent an easy flush, so he went for the ball hard, getting a lot of body in the process. And when a 340 lb man hits the ground after running at full speed, it will always look bad.

Stackhouse’s one-game suspension is a joke. Sacramento Kings F Ron Artest, the NBA’s version of Mike Tyson, received a one-gamer for maliciously going after Manu Ginobli in a blowout. Heat F Udonis Haslem received a one-gamer for chucking his mouthpiece at a ref. Mavs G Jason Terry and Nuggets F Reggie Evans both received one-gamers for trying to rearrange their opponents man-atomy.

And Stack gets a one-game vacation for what used to be a “good, clean, hard foul?” This is simple—Stern saw his chance to aid the Heat in this series and pounced. Call me clinically insane, but I really believe that Stackhouse, possibly the NBA’s best sub, would have made a difference in the Mavs’ Game 5 101-100 OT loss to the Heat.

Dwyane’s World

Game 5 free-throw attempts: Dwayne Wade 25, Dallas Mavericks 24.

Now I understand team’s getting a call here and there at home, but this is getting re-freakin’-diculous. Wade is a damn good player, arguably as good as any in the league today. But all of a sudden the third-year marvel is getting treatment that I’m not even sure M.J. used to get back in the day. The most free throws that his Airness ever attempted during his prolific 15-year career was 27. The numbers just don’t add up.

To make matters worse, the refs handed Wade the game-winning points on a silver platter. First, it looked like there was a backcourt violation when he caught the inbounds pass with 9.1 seconds left in overtime. Second, even though he drew a foul on his drive to the hoop with 1.9 seconds remaining, it appeared that he was the one who was out of control. Wade even knocked Jason Terry down to the floor.

Nonetheless, despite both the apparent backcourt violation and the phantom foul, Wade was awarded two free throws. He calmly stepped up and knocked down both shots, giving the Heat the 101-100 victory.

Out Of Time?

The NBA and Game 5 refs Joey Crawford and Joe DeRosa stand by the claim that Mavs F Josh Howard boneheadedly burned the Mavs final timeout in-between Wade’s decisive free throws. Crawford says that Howard was looking right at DeRosa when he signaled “timeout.”

That is complete B.S.

Howard has vehemently denied this claim, saying that he “was looking straight at Coach" when he made the signal. I watched the entire game. It was obvious to me that Howard was communicating with Johnson over when to call the Mavs’ final timeout. I understand that Howard has to be more alert during late-game situations, but the refs also have to allow players to communicate with their coaches.

The refs jumped all over the Mavs communication breakdown. Although they won’t admit it, it was a subtle way to ensure Stern’s Game 5 objective—another Heat victory.

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Yes I agree, Dirk had some downs in these games, but the major reason for the final result was biased officiating. Of course, it is easy to blame that on one player. Especially if he is not marketingable for the media like Dirk is. How many people hacked Kobe after the loss against the Celtics last June? Not as many as in Dirk's case. The Celtics were so strong etc... were the major reasons at this time. Kobe did not perform well, but there was not any bashing in the dimensions Dirk experienced two years ago. In 2007 he did not play well, that is right. No doubt about that. But every player can have a weak series (and in 2006 Dirk played very well until the finals and also in the first two games). The series against the Hornets in 2008 can definitely not be blamed on Dirk. 26.8/12 after coming back from an injury is simply oustanding. But it doesn't help if you don't have teammates to step up. Besides Bass the whole team sucked; JHo with 28% shooting... nothing more to say.

Dirk is not given the respect that most other stars would get with the same performance. But why? As written in that third article, he is a lanky, white, tall European-guy who is shooting the three and using the jumpshot. You have an owner that speaks his mind, and you have a nontraditional foreigner as your best player. Dirk ain't a screamer. Dirk ain't "tough." He has no street cred. He isn't a thug. He goes about his business the best he can. Dirk is "soft" and a "jump shooting big man". Dirk would never say that he's the best player in the world like Paul Pierce did-> http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba-blog/why-paul-pierce-believes-he-s-better-than-kobe-bryant-ar48724.html

Dirk doesn't get arrested and hasn't been accused of anything besides being in the gym too much. Dirk isn't going to give many hot-sports-opinions about other players or get in many fights. Who is his main rival? Who truly despises Dirk. Simply: That isn't sexy for the media and thus they don't favour him and many fans have a bad impression of him.

One of the biggest problems for Dirk is he has the best of both worlds in terms of his game, size and skills, but that in turn gets him the worst of both worlds in terms of officiating. Perimeter players get a lot of touch foul calls. Post players have to be hammered to get a call. The undeserved problem with Dirk is he is physically a post player but he has a perimeter game. A touch foul makes a bigger difference when you are trying to score from 15 feet away. Getting hammered 2 feet away from the basket has less of an effect on a player. To say it plain and simple, Dirk is ahead of his time.

And about a championship: There are players like Dirk, Malone, Barkley, Stockton, Ewing, Reggie etc... Those guys are/were good enough to win a ring, but they are/were victims of bad timing or bad overall teams.

Of course, nobody has to be a fan of Dallas and it is okay to dislike a team, but at least you should be fair enough to give the players the respect they deserve. For instance, name me another 7-footer who has collected over 1,000 three-pointers?? There is no other. He's a 7-footer with the ability to launch a perimeter game. That's also one reason why he doesn't get so many boards on the offensive end like Duncan or KG.

Dirk was, is and will always be mistreated by the fans and the media. He will never get the same credits like KB, LBJ, Duncan, Garnett or anyone else of the star-players, although he can play on the same level. Read for instance this article:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26258-kobes-play-the-product-of-biased-nba-officiating

Citation: "What takes the hit is Dirk's FG%, because he is getting fouled repeatedly and not allowed to play his game. And the impact of this is huge. It allows one player to defend Dirk rather than double or triple teams, which impedes the offense and prevents the other Mavs from scoring.

And the way Kobe is officated does the complete opposite for his teammates. They are getting wide open three pointers constantly and layups because you need multiple defenders to defend Kobe, because unlike with Dirk, one guy isn't allowed to foul Kobe constantly.

[Shank]

Too many words.

[Sportstudi]

Too many words.

Maybe you are right. But some things are needed to be stated :toast

[ManuTP9]

timmy

[Dinamita]

http://www.nba.com/media/west2_627.jpg


/THREAD