Ariza will not be further penalized; Odom under review [Archive]

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 12:35 PM

NEW YORK -- NBA vice president Stu Jackson decided Tuesday that Lakers forward Trevor Ariza would not be penalized further for his hard foul against Trail Blazers guard Rudy Fernandez, but the league was still taking a long look at whether Lamar Odom's actions merited a suspension under the "leaving the bench" rule.

"We're reviewing it," league spokesman Tim Frank said of Monday night's Lakers-Blazers scrum, which happened after Ariza knocked Fernandez off-balance with a hard foul on a breakaway late in the third quarter, and Fernandez was carried off on a stretcher and hospitalized.

Ariza was ejected, which is automatic for a flagrant 2-category foul. But Ariza would not receive any other penalty, Frank said.

Jackson and his staff were still reviewing the post-foul scrum, however, to determine if anyone leaving the bench during the altercation would receive an automatic one-game suspension.

No punches were thrown, and the fracas was rather mild by historical standards, but Portland's Brandon Roy appeared to grab at or shove Ariza before turning his attention to Odom, who appeared to come off the Lakers bench and walk approximately 15 feet toward the fray.

"I stood up, but I stood right there -- I didn't go nowhere," Odom said.

Nearby, Portland's Travis Outlaw appeared to bump or shove the Lakers' Josh Powell. The fracas lasted only a few seconds, and order was restored quickly enough for the officials to review the play on the courtside monitor while Fernandez was being tended to by medical personnel.

"I was just trying to go for the ball and make a good play, and unfortunately somebody got hurt," Ariza said. "I'm just trying to play the game the right way -- trying to give them nothing easy."

Lead official Dick Bavetta upheld the flagrant-2 foul against Ariza, who appeared to be going for the ball when he swiped at Fernandez on a breakaway with the Lakers trailing by 28 points with 2.2 seconds left in the third quarter.

Ariza caught enough of Fernandez's arm to knock him off-balance, and Fernandez landed hard on his left hip and appeared to have the wind knocked out of him. The game was delayed nearly 10 minutes before Fernandez was wheeled off on a stretcher.

Fernandez was conscious and alert when he left the court, and he had full movement of his extremities, the team said. X-rays and a CT scan were negative, but Fernandez remained at the hospital overnight with a "soft tissue injury to his right upper chest/side area."

"It was weird. We were winning by a lot of points, everybody was playing well ... actually it was clear that Ariza was going to hit him, because he had had a couple of turnovers. He was after him to hit him, but not to hurt him. Even Ariza was scared about what he had done," Blazers guard Sergio Rodriguez said, according to the Spanish Web site Marca.com.

There was no indication from the NBA whether the matter of additional suspensions or fines would be addressed Tuesday or Wednesday. The Lakers' next game is Wednesday night in Houston, and the Trail Blazers' next game is at home the same night against Dallas.

Chris Sheridan is an NBA writer for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

RedsLakers24

03-10-2009, 12:37 PM

Odom should be suspended, if Amare and Diaw got suspended versus the spurs then Odom should, but then again the league loves those spurs and thats why they suspended those suns

21_Blessings

03-10-2009, 12:38 PM

As expected for Ariza. No intent, was going for the ball.

mogrovejo

03-10-2009, 12:39 PM

"It was weird. We were winning by a lot of points, everybody was playing well ... actually it was clear that Ariza was going to hit him, because he had had a couple of turnovers. He was after him to hit him, but not to hurt him. Even Ariza was scared about what he had done," Blazers guard Sergio Rodriguez said, according to the Spanish Web site Marca.com.

This sums up pretty well what happened.

"I stood up, but I stood right there -- I didn't go nowhere," Odom said.

Is this guy mentally retarded? Isn't he aware the games are filmed and broadcasted or something?

Showtime24 LAKERS

03-10-2009, 12:40 PM

Here is the official definition of a flagrant 2 from the NBA rule book:

" b. If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpret-ed to be unnecessary and excessive, a flagrant foul--penalty (2) will be assessed. A personal foul is charged to the offender and a team foul is charged to the team. "

The only difference between this and a flagrant 1 is the word "excessive"; each person interprets this word differently. It was definitely a flagrant 1, I, personally, do not think it warrants a flagrant 2. It was definitely unnecessary, though it was not excessive.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 12:43 PM

Odom should be suspended, if Amare and Diaw got suspended versus the spurs then Odom should, but then again the league loves those spurs and thats why they suspended those suns

I wouldn't be surprised if Odom isn't suspended KG wasn't suspended last year for doing what Amare and Diaw did.

The Franchise

03-10-2009, 12:45 PM

Memo to other teams when playing the Lakers: If you want justice after a dirty play you're going to have to take it.

Indazone

03-10-2009, 12:46 PM

Odom just trying to get out of being suspended. He'll say anything but the film tells all. Odom should definately get suspended.

z0sa

03-10-2009, 12:48 PM

faggot biased league.

Sportcamper

03-10-2009, 12:48 PM

The flagrant against Ariza should have been lifted…This Euro Flopping must stop!

TheProfessor

03-10-2009, 12:53 PM

Memo to other teams when playing the Lakers: If you want justice after a dirty play you're going to have to take it.
Pretty much. Though I think in the playoffs that would be a suspension, regardless.

monosylab1k

03-10-2009, 12:53 PM

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So you're telling me that Dirk getting shoved around & fouled down low, and backhanding Harpring by accident, is worthy of a one-game suspension, but Ariza trying to take Rudy's head off isn't?

Stern loves his Lakers.

timvp

03-10-2009, 12:55 PM

Bowen would have been suspended for about four years. And then forced to meet Kobe in Colorado.

mogrovejo

03-10-2009, 12:57 PM

mogrovejo

03-10-2009, 12:59 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if Odom isn't suspended KG wasn't suspended last year for doing what Amare and Diaw did.

When has KG left the bench the way Odom did it?

KG was suspended because he and Bogut shoved each other - a much less serious and dangerous move than this one.

Texas_Ranger

03-10-2009, 12:59 PM

As expected for Ariza. No intent, was going for the ball.

:lol

monosylab1k

03-10-2009, 01:01 PM

When has KG left the bench the way Odom did it?

I don't know when he left the bench, but in the playoffs he did shove a ref and get away with it.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:01 PM

Can't block a shot from behind without swinging.

The reason LO hasn't been suspended because of where he was at on the floor. The bench area is clear when its on the sidelines or going into the crowd but LO did neither. He didn't cross the lines and often times many players are "on the bench" but actually sit on the baseline.

Definitely a much grayer ever than previous instances - its why the league hasn't ruled. Because that part of the baseline is often considered the bench area.

mogrovejo

03-10-2009, 01:03 PM

I don't know when he left the bench.

Me neither, that's why I'm asking.

ginobili's bald spot

03-10-2009, 01:05 PM

Yes obviously the league is biased. It couldn't possibly be that fans of other teams on this site are the biased ones. People get fouled all the time. He just happened to fall hard. Suck it up pussies.

Spursmania

03-10-2009, 01:06 PM

Stern loves them Lakers! Odom should get the same suspension as Amare got-rules should be applied evenly. Dumbass Odom doesn't even know there are tapes out there. Typical pendejo.:lol

z0sa

03-10-2009, 01:06 PM

Can't block a shot from behind without swinging.

:lmao shows how little Lakerfan knows about interior defense.

fatsack

03-10-2009, 01:06 PM

odom got up and left the bench. period.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 01:07 PM

So you're telling me that Dirk getting shoved around & fouled down low, and backhanding Harpring by accident, is worthy of a one-game suspension, but Ariza trying to take Rudy's head off isn't?

Stern loves his Lakers.

And his Jazz. Stern loves big markets and religion. A bunch of good religious white boys playing basketball gives Stern a boner, so he tells the refs to let them play like thugs.

Sterns goal is to get as many bible thumpers watching the NBA as possible, that's why he does pointless things like create a dress code.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:09 PM

1:41 mark to see LO

jUENlW0s0Ow

The Franchise

03-10-2009, 01:12 PM

Amazingly, Ariza didn't get suspended so I'm not going to hold my breath on Stern doing the right thing about Odumb leaving the bench.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:12 PM

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 01:13 PM

Don't tell the Jazz fans that. Everytime I watch them they boo like crazy every time a foul is called on their players. They suck.

Well when the Jazz are at home the refs don't call fouls so understandably the fans are a little mad when a player on the other team gets completely mugged and the ref actually blows the whistle.

Also Kirilenko gets charges on the other team whenever he wants by merely falling down. There are plenty of floppers (Manu, Nash, Oberto, Bell), but he's by far the worst.

The Franchise

03-10-2009, 01:14 PM

1:41 mark to see LO

jUENlW0s0Ow

So you agree he left the bench area?

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:16 PM

lakaluva - I wouldn't say the case is closed yet. LO still can be suspended. But its not cut and dry at all. If he would have stepped on the court the answer would have been simple.

1Parker1

03-10-2009, 01:17 PM

Odom should be suspended, if Amare and Diaw got suspended versus the spurs then Odom should, but then again the league loves those spurs and thats why they suspended those suns

:lmao You're logic doesn't make sense. If they don't suspend Odom, it could be because the league loves those Lakers so much, and that's why they suspended those Suns, but not those Lakers. :rolleyes

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:18 PM

So you agree he left the bench area?

What's the bench area? That's the question. How does the NBA define it.

Is Nash on the bench here? NBA players sit/lay in the area LO walked to all the time.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02SOdExeIGbTw/610x.jpg

The Franchise

03-10-2009, 01:19 PM

1:41 mark to see LO

jUENlW0s0Ow

What's really funny about this video is that the Laker bench is not in the picture but Lamar is. :toast

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 01:20 PM

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02SOdExeIGbTw/610x.jpg

Amare looks like he's getting ready for a Jihad.

mogrovejo

03-10-2009, 01:26 PM

I would love to hear Stu Jackson explaining to Horford why he got suspended but Ariza didn't.

FromWayDowntown

03-10-2009, 01:26 PM

Also - if you check around the 6:52 mark you see what LO does when he leaves the bench - he tries to grab Ariza, not instigating. Roy then bumps him and he jaws until Rambis pulls him away. But the video shows LO as a peacemaker who could be considered still in the bench area.

The rule, as best I recall, says nothing about the intent of the player leaving the bench. If that had been a concern, I don't think Diaw would have been suspended in 07.

And there CAN'T be a concern for intent, because that would undermine the purpose of the rule. The rule is meant to keep as few people involved in a skirmish as possible, both to allow the officials a better chance to break things up, and protect against escalation by outsiders. If you make an exception for peacemakers, you basically create the possibility for increasing chaos, not ending it; and you also create a situation where a bench guy with good intentions can get into the skirmish and then heat things up even more.

If Odom left the bench area, he should be suspended. Period. There was clearly an altercation -- the first key question for applying the rule -- so Odom was prohibited from leaving the bench area, no matter what. I think the league should attempt to define the term "bench area," but if the definition is "in the immediate vicinity of the bench," then I think Odom did leave the bench area and MUST be suspended.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 01:26 PM

True....Manu is a master at it. I think he flops more ther b/c it pisses them off more. I love it.

Manu doesn't flop nearly as much as he used to (which is partially why I don't hate him as much) and yeah in most situations he does it because he knows the other player is a head case, Amare being the most obvious example.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:27 PM

Right there in the seats. That's the bench...when there's a fight don't leave that seat..simple as that. I don't know what is so hard to understand. He's sitting there on the floor, but there is no fight so it's okay. Get it?

So if a fight started then Nash automatically deserves a suspension?

If it was so clear-cut, why hasn't LO already been suspended?

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:29 PM

The rule, as best I recall, says nothing about the intent of the player leaving the bench. If that had been a concern, I don't think Diaw would have been suspended in 07.

And there CAN'T be a concern for intent, because that would undermine the purpose of the rule. The rule is meant to keep as few people involved in a skirmish as possible, both to allow the officials a better chance to break things up, and protect against escalation by outsiders. If you make an exception for peacemakers, you basically create the possibility for increasing chaos, not ending it; and you also create a situation where a bench guy with good intentions can get into the skirmish and then heat things up even more.

If Odom left the bench area, he should be suspended. Period. There was clearly an altercation -- the first key question for applying the rule -- so Odom was prohibited from leaving the bench area, no matter what. I think the league should attempt to define the term "bench area," but if the definition is "in the immediate vicinity of the bench," then I think Odom did leave the bench area and MUST be suspended.

Agreed about intent. Just saying there has to be a question of whether or not that part of the baseline is the bench or not. And with that a question, the league will (rightly or wrongly) have intent in mind when they choose.

The Franchise

03-10-2009, 01:29 PM

So if a fight started then Nash automatically deserves a suspension?

If it was so clear-cut, why hasn't LO already been suspended?

Is this a trick question?

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:29 PM

What's really funny about this video is that the Laker bench is not in the picture but Lamar is. :toast

You need better glasses because LO isn't in that picture.

:cooldevil

TheNextGen

03-10-2009, 01:30 PM

1:41 mark to see LO

jUENlW0s0Ow

haha announcers are funny...fucking homers.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:31 PM

yeah basically...it's not the intent, it's just being on the floor at the time. Scrotum hasn't been suspended yet b/c he plays for the Lakers...I mean in 07 Amare and Diaw did way less and were suspended. Don't you agree?

The floor is defined by the court and crossing the lines. LO didn't do that, nor did he go into the crowd. In fact, the video shows he's approximately at the 3 point arc - where we see many of players there every game waving towels trying to distract the other team while shooting.

The Franchise

03-10-2009, 01:32 PM

You need better glasses because LO isn't in that picture.

:cooldevil

I got you. :lol

Ghazi

03-10-2009, 01:33 PM

No surprises here, just the league playing favorites like it's supposed to do.

I mean, we did all witness the 2006 Finals right? When Stern and his crooked refs decided D-Whistle the primadonna wheelchair bitch who doesn't deserve his ring and had a fluke Finals and is a sex addict is more worthy as the face of the league than an unconventional, unmarketable German PF?

Again, no surprises here, just the league favoring who it's supposed to favor.

ambchang

03-10-2009, 01:38 PM

The only difference was the Horford didn't wear purple and gold.

QaZdJzsHeZk

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3153850

NEW YORK -- Atlanta Hawks forward Al Horford was suspended for one game by the NBA on Thursday for a flagrant foul against Toronto's T.J. Ford.

Ford was injured when Horford struck him on the head and knocked him down as Ford was trying to score on a breakaway with 1:32 left in the game Tuesday night. Horford, ejected for a flagrant foul penalty two, said he was trying to block Ford's shot.

Ford was released from an Atlanta hospital Wednesday and flew home to Toronto. Ford spent the night in Piedmont Hospital for observation and tests.

Horford, for his part, was unable to shake the incident from his mind, and visited Ford for several hours at the hospital Tuesday night. But it was Ford who made Horford feel better.

"T.J. was real cool," Horford said Wednesday afternoon, according to the Atlanta-Journal Constitution, after the Hawks wrapped up a day of treatment and individual workouts at Philips Arena. "Thank God he's doing better and he went home and everything. We spent some good time together and we just talked about the game and a lot of other stuff. He told me that he understood I didn't do it intentionally or anything like that. It was a really good visit."

Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo said the Hawks contacted the Raptors to express remorse about the incident.

"I know that Horford feels awful about it," Colangelo said. "He spent a couple of hours at the hospital with (T.J.) last night and, true to T.J.'s form, he was probably doing more of the consoling. I think the kid (Horford) was pretty shaken up about it. He felt awful. I don't think there was any intention to do harm."

Ford said he appreciated Horford's visit and told the rookie he wouldn't hold a grudge.

"It wasn't a dirty play at all," Ford said. "I think I just kind of tricked him with the move and he got caught in a bad spot. He's a good kid. I told him I'm not holding anything against him."

On Wednesday, Ford said both arms are still sore and that he is unable to sleep comfortably.

When he does return, Ford said he won't be any more cautious about contact.

"I understand I'm always playing with a risk," Ford said. "I don't think the risk has changed. I don't think, after talking to the medical doctors and the way that my body feels, that I'm putting my career in jeopardy.

"If I felt that way, I don't think I would play because life is more important," Ford added. "I have a son that I definitely want to be able to play with. I don't think I could live with not being able to do a lot of things with him. If it gets to that point, I think I would definitely give it up."

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 01:38 PM

This is hilarious if you think LO didn't jump into the altercation.....he shouldn't avoid a suspension merely out of good luck that the altercation happened near the Laker bench.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 01:42 PM

If Diaw deserved a suspension for quickly jumping up and yanking Amare back near the bench.....then LO undoubtedly deserves a suspension for this.

Amare arguably did worse than LO since he walked further away from the bench than LO with ill will intended, but Diaw undoubtedly did less than LO.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:42 PM

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 01:46 PM

The flagrant against Ariza should have been lifted…This Euro Flopping must stop!
Wow..you are the definition of douchebag homer idiot..

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 01:49 PM

But there has been an underlying current this year of the league letting more physical things go and the penalities being lighter.

Based on what other than the Ariza and Bynum incident?

LakeShow

03-10-2009, 01:49 PM

I never said LO shouldn't be suspended. Just pointing out at how its not cut and dry.

I think he does end up missing a game but that will have more to do with pressure on the league after Bynum and Ariza got off after putting people in the hospital.

But there has been an underlying current this year of the league letting more physical things go and the penalities being lighter. Makes me think they want to get back to the 80s.

They're tired of all the pussy players and pussy fans that have taken over the league. They need to get rid of all of these bullshit suspensions and make players man up like they used to.

sook

03-10-2009, 01:51 PM

it wasn't even a damn flagrant, wow pussies these days.

I was expecting it to be brutal and then saw it, and ariza clearly went for the block and got pretty much all ball, rudy just oculdn't control his balance too well

venitian navigator

03-10-2009, 01:52 PM

Frankly, I don't understand why the nba doesn't protect this kind of situations...
When you're going for the dunk in the open court is the most spectacular movement, people loves it and the nba makes a lot of advertising through these images.
But in that moment the player is completely vulnerable, 'cause he's in the air, with eyes only to the basket and trying to execute a perfect movement...no way in hell somebody may be enabled to hurt you from behind...in any sort of way.

In this particular case, Ariza has first knocked Rudy's head, then the rest...also if he was trying to get the ball, that was a very, very dangerous defensive attempt, and it's been executed in the worst kind of way.
That's the better way to put it...(the other is that he was going for the man, and in that, possible if not probable, case, imho, he was going to voluntarly put the player's health in grave danger...deserving something more than some days of suspension).

That's the completely wrong message sent by the nba :players better put a lay up in any situation, and if you dunk in the open court it's at your own risk, 'cause some shithead is enabled to hurt you from behind...

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 01:52 PM

Odom never set foot on the floor. He simply stepped out of bounds were Roy was trying to start a riot in front of the Lakers bench and prevented his teammate from being rushed by some of Portlands queers.

Good call on this one league. I expect Odom will excape clean too.:toast
Says the Lakers homer..if it was Kobe, you'd be screaming for a suspension..and you'd get one...look at this

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/de37847f-7173-4621-bef4-7b2c316a91e5.jpg

Come on..there's no way in hell Ariza was going for the ball. Trevor should be suspended, as should Odom..But as expected, Stern's Lakers are going to get away with it.

FromWayDowntown

03-10-2009, 01:54 PM

The floor is defined by the court and crossing the lines. LO didn't do that, nor did he go into the crowd. In fact, the video shows he's approximately at the 3 point arc - where we see many of players there every game waving towels trying to distract the other team while shooting.

That's not the question -- it doesn't matter where he goes. What matters is whether he left the bench during an altercation. He could have gotten up to go to the bathroom and, by the letter of the law, would have been due a suspension -- no discretion, no concerns for intent, a suspension.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 01:56 PM

I am Spurs fan and I think that was B.S. to do that do that awesome series

As do I, however I really wish the media didn't continuously bring it up so Robert Sarver can continually make the same tired excuse as to why he didn't look to improve the team at all the last two off seasons.

Whether or not the Suns were truly the better team in 2007, him using that as the reason why the Suns did nothing in the 2007 off season is a crock of shit, because the Suns would have gotten swept by the Spurs in 2007 if they didn't have Kurt Thomas. D'antoni should have been fired after that series, they shouldn't have pissed a season away giving him a year he didn't deserve.

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 01:57 PM

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:58 PM

Based on what other than the Ariza and Bynum incident?

No. There have been several hard fouls that only got single game or no suspensions.

Big Baby on Varejao with no suspension

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Zach only getting 2 games for hitting Louis Amundson.

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David West only one game for hunting down and taking out Mike Miller.

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Kendrick Perkins not suspended for the takedown on Maxiell

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Tyson Chandler only getting 1 game for going after Pryzbilla

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As hard as its to believe its not just LA.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 01:59 PM

That's not the question -- it doesn't matter where he goes. What matters is whether he left the bench during an altercation. He could have gotten up to go to the bathroom and, by the letter of the law, would have been due a suspension -- no discretion, no concerns for intent, a suspension.

And what if he didn't leave the bench?

That's what the NBA has to be debating. Its easy to argue he never left the bench even as he stepped towards the altercation.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 02:00 PM

Yeah I know, Perkins and big baby get away with just as much shit. If Boston wasn't allowed to set illegal screens Perkins would have to retire.

FromWayDowntown

03-10-2009, 02:06 PM

And what if he didn't leave the bench?

That's what the NBA has to be debating. Its easy to argue he never left the bench even as he stepped towards the altercation.

I agree with you there. But the question of whether he left the bench has nothing whatsoever to do with whether he went on the floor. From what I've seen, he took more than a step away from the bench, which should be enough to put him outside of the bench area and compel a suspension.

But, frankly, my guess is that Odom isn't suspended and that the league, after castrating the Suns with its "letter of the law" edict in 2007 has decided that a letter of the law policy can have a little more flexibility than it did in 2007.

If that happens, Suns fans have every right to be legitimately pissed.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 02:11 PM

I agree with you there. But the question of whether he left the bench has nothing whatsoever to do with whether he went on the floor.

Frankly, my guess is that Odom isn't suspended and that the league, after castrating the Suns with its "letter of the law" edict in 2007 has decided that a letter of the law policy can have a little more flexibility than it did in 2007.

If that happens, Suns fans have every right to be legitimately pissed.

That's just it - he never went on the floor/court. He never stepped on or across that line.

If he's still on the bench then how did he leave the bench and warrant as suspension?

Amare/Diaw ran out near to halfcourt, passes the "coaches box" line, to wear Nash was hit at.

1:32 mark shows them clearly where Nash fell. No way that can be considered the bench.

hYC95MziMJk

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 02:17 PM

I really won't know what to say if Odom isn't suspended. I really just wish the Suns and their fan base could move the fuck on and stop harping on it. We've got more important stuff to worry about, like oh, I don't know, the fact Sarver is on a committee who's goal is to get an NBA team in Vegas.

The Franchise

03-10-2009, 02:17 PM

He left the bench. The only people that say otherwise are Laker homers. Understandable but stil BS.

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 02:19 PM

He left the bench. The only people that say otherwise are Laker homers. Understandable but stil BS.

Unfortunately Stern is a bigger Laker homer than anyone on this board so......

FromWayDowntown

03-10-2009, 02:20 PM

That's just it - he never went on the floor/court. He never stepped on or across that line.

But that's not what the rule says. In fact, it provides: "During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench." A player can most certainly leave the bench area without ever going on the floor. You keep worrying about whether he went on the floor, but all he had to do was leave the bench area. If you're contending that the bench area includes space 10-15 feet down the baseline towards the basket, I'd say your definition is pretty liberal and not really compliant with the intent of the rule.

If he's still on the bench then how did he leave the bench and warrant as suspension?

How is a guy who is at least 10 feet from the bench "still on the bench?"

Amare/Diaw ran out near to halfcourt, passes the "coaches box" line, to wear Nash was hit at.

1:32 mark shows them clearly where Nash fell. No way that can be considered the bench.

Agreed. That's why they were suspended. The fact that they went further than Odom did doesn't mean that Odom stayed in the immediate vicinity of his bench, though.

Rogbok

03-10-2009, 02:21 PM

For anyone saying that Ariza did not hit Rudy's head, they are blind. There was definite contact between Rudy's back of the head and around Ariza's Elbow during the wreckless swing.

As to Odom, while he was close to the bench area, he should get suspended because he was not one of the 5 lakers in the game at the time and he definitely entered into the outskirts of the fray when he should have stayed back. If it was not for his couple of steps forward and participating in body and words, I would agree that he probably does not deserve to be suspended

YoMamaIsCallin

03-10-2009, 02:22 PM

Can't block a shot from behind without swinging.

Have you ever played basketball? Have you ever blocked a shot from behind? It's easy to block a shot from behind. You time your jump so that you can get your hand on top of the ball as he brings it up to shoot. Then you block it. If you really have your hand way over the ball, you can pull it towards you and take it away at the same time.

The play where you take a swipe at the ball is if you haven't timed your jump and you don't have enough height to get on top of the ball. It's almost always a foul unless you get it just right.

DrHouse

03-10-2009, 02:23 PM

STERN hates small market teams!!!! WAHHH!!! WAHHH!!!! WAHHH!!!!!

The Franchise

03-10-2009, 02:24 PM

How is a guy who is at least 10 feet from the bench "still on the bench?" When he has Lakers / Celtics on the front of his jersey.

dickface

03-10-2009, 02:29 PM

No. There have been several hard fouls that only got single game or no suspensions.

Big Baby on Varejao with no suspension

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Zach only getting 2 games for hitting Louis Amundson.

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David West only one game for hunting down and taking out Mike Miller.

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Kendrick Perkins not suspended for the takedown on Maxiell

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Tyson Chandler only getting 1 game for going after Pryzbilla

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As hard as its to believe its not just LA.

All those examples, they all got at least a 1 game suspension. Except, of course, for Celtics or Lakers players. Typical.

YoMamaIsCallin

03-10-2009, 02:30 PM

NEW YORK -- NBA vice president Stu Jackson decided Tuesday that Lakers forward Trevor Ariza would not be penalized further for his hard foul against Trail Blazers guard Rudy Fernandez, ...

Stu Jackson is as biased as they come. He absolutely plays favorites.

This should have been a multi-game suspension for a deliberate attempt to injure. A one-game suspension would be inadequate but would be something. To suspend him for ZERO GAMES is a joke. This is worse than a slap on the wrist. It's a free pass.

It's a wink saying "If you're the Lakers, you are allowed to physically abuse other teams if they have the gall to beat you."

The Lakers lost nothing by having him ejected, and he lost nothing. The game was already over (they were down 30 at the end of the 3rd).

He is just going to play in the next game like nothing happened.

On the other hand, last year the Spurs lost Bruce Bowen for a game for doing literally nothing except get hit in the nuts by Prince Golden Boy (aka Chris Paul). Stu Jackson again played favorites.

The NBA is apparently all about protecting the American "superstars" (Kobe, LeBron, Paul, Wade) that the league has decided are the reason they make money.

The Stu Jackson regime in the NBA is a joke. He should be fired.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 02:31 PM

I only posted the Phoenix clip because other's brought it up as a comparison.

"At least 10 feet"? He was hardly 5 and appeared to be within arm's length. If he was 10 he'd already be suspended.

I'm not saying the bench should be 10-15 feet away, but the league obviously have given leeway already when players are "on the bench". The bench hasn't been defined by just the chairs for a while.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 02:33 PM

Have you ever played basketball? Have you ever blocked a shot from behind? It's easy to block a shot from behind. You time your jump so that you can get your hand on top of the ball as he brings it up to shoot. Then you block it. If you really have your hand way over the ball, you can pull it towards you and take it away at the same time.

The play where you take a swipe at the ball is if you haven't timed your jump and you don't have enough height to get on top of the ball. It's almost always a foul unless you get it just right.

Yes I've played and coached. So bad timing warrants a suspension?

FromWayDowntown

03-10-2009, 02:34 PM

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 02:36 PM

Hey man, Im from the old school homey. I thought the clothline on Kobe and Kurt Rambis was fair play. You need some toughness in this league. You cant even touch a guy without getting called for a flagrant these days. Get rid of these Euro faggot rules and lets play hard nose again.
Hey..I'm with you on that..but the bottom line is..you have to be consistent. If the Horford play goes for a suspension, so should this. It's the same damn thing. No difference except for the jerseys.

Banzai

03-10-2009, 02:37 PM

lol odom..

rayray2k8

03-10-2009, 02:37 PM

Odom should be suspended, if Amare and Diaw got suspended versus the spurs then Odom should, but then again the league loves those spurs and thats why they suspended those suns

This coming from a Laker fan who's the number 1 pampered team in the NBA
with the number 1 most pampered player in the NBA, none other than Kobe Bryant.
Guess all that bitching does pay off, huh laker fans?
I'll admit, Duncan does whine, but not as much as Bryant and my
god does he cry.

mardigan

03-10-2009, 02:37 PM

He got a flagrant 2, that's good enough for me. The foul imo, wasn't that dirty. I just really, really hated how he acted afterward. You don't try and escalate shit after you just put a player on the floor.

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 02:38 PM

All those examples, they all got at least a 1 game suspension. Except, of course, for Celtics or Lakers players. Typical.
I was about to say the exact same thing.

2Cleva

03-10-2009, 02:40 PM

So wait, are you agreeing that it doesn't matter whether he went on the floor or not?

It does matter if he went on the floor.

But "floor" is considered as the playing area on the court. He wasn't there. He wasn't in the stands either. He was arguably on the bench.

How can he be penalized for "leaving the vicinity of the bench" when he doesn't leave the bench area and doesn't step on any lines onto the playing area/court?

Banzai

03-10-2009, 02:44 PM

Yep...Lakers fans think their players can do no wrong. That's the arrogance of CA and Hollywood. They love the smell of their farts.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/ani_cartman-fart.gif (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=1823)

DUNCANownsKOBE2

03-10-2009, 02:47 PM

This coming from a Laker fan who's the number 1 pampered team in the NBA
with the number 1 most pampered player in the NBA, none other than Kobe Bryant.
Guess all that bitching does pay off, huh laker fans?
I'll admit, Duncan does whine, but not as much as Bryant and my
god does he cry.

As much of a whiner as Kobe is, Lebron is way worse. Kobe never claimed that there's something called a "crab dribble".

FromWayDowntown

03-10-2009, 02:48 PM

It does matter if he went on the floor.

So anywhere other than the floor or the stands is in the immediate vicinity of the bench, then?

Absurd.

But "floor" is considered as the playing area on the court. He wasn't there. He wasn't in the stands either. He was arguably on the bench.

See above. A player could have set foot on the floor and still been closer to the LA bench than Odom was. Are you saying the guy in my hypothetical should have been suspended no matter what (even though the fracas was taking place mostly out of bounds) but that Odom is absolved because he never set foot on the floor.

Again, absurd.

I guess the rules, as written, really shouldn't apply to Odom. As long as he stayed off the floor he's cool, even though the rules say nothing about going on the floor in assessing whether the player left the immediate vicinity of the bench.

How can he be penalized for "leaving the vicinity of the bench" when he doesn't leave the bench area and doesn't step on any lines onto the playing area/court?

Again, it does not matter whether he stepped onto the court. I'd be interested in knowing where you get this "on the court" stuff, because it sure doesn't appear to exist anywhere in the written rule.

rayray2k8

03-10-2009, 02:51 PM

Lamar will be suspended.. Period.
The NBA comes down hard now on players who even take 2-3 steps away from the bench.
Ever since that brawl in Detroit happened, the NBA isnt taking any more chances.

Rogbok

03-10-2009, 02:52 PM

It does matter if he went on the floor.

But "floor" is considered as the playing area on the court. He wasn't there. He wasn't in the stands either. He was arguably on the bench.

How can he be penalized for "leaving the vicinity of the bench" when he doesn't leave the bench area and doesn't step on any lines onto the playing area/court?

The thing is, is not only did he take at least 2 steps towards the altercation, he gets involved with it in one possibly trying to pull Ariza out, though if it was an attempt ti was not a real good attempt, and also by bodying up with Roy and exchanging words. Being that he was not a active participant in the game at that time, he had no business getting involved. He should have stayed back and the Laker's coaches should have held him back or pulled him away sooner than what they did. No other Laker that was on the bench other than Odom got involved.

The Franchise

03-10-2009, 02:53 PM

Even Rick Beucher, the biggest Lakers sword swallower admitted Odom left the bench and should be suspended. Come on Laker fans give it up.

FromWayDowntown

03-10-2009, 02:55 PM

Even Rick Beucher, the biggest Lakers sword swallower admitted Odom left the bench and should be suspended. Come on Laker fans give it up.

But, but -- he didn't go on the floor!!!! That's all that matters.

DrHouse

03-10-2009, 02:57 PM

The fact that you think Ric Bucher is a Laker sword swallower is laughable.

"KOBE BRYANT HAS PLAYED HIS LAST GAME IN A LAKER UNIFORM! I BET MY LIFE ON IT!"

FromWayDowntown

03-10-2009, 03:03 PM

The fact that you think Ric Bucher is a Laker sword swallower is laughable.

"KOBE BRYANT HAS PLAYED HIS LAST GAME IN A LAKER UNIFORM! I BET MY LIFE ON IT!"

He basically admitted to being the biggest Kobe apologist on the planet in a podcast with Bill Simmons.

diego

03-10-2009, 03:10 PM

laker fans have no shame.

have any of you addressed the horford suspension? at the time I argued it didnt deserve a suspension, and i feel the same way about ariza's. but the fact is that stu "incompetent hypocrite" jackson suspended horford and now he's looking the other way on the exact same play- its total BS, which is the only thing jackson consistently does well.

as far as odom, he clearly took steps away from his bench, not towards it, and towards the altercation, not away from it. how can you argue he never left the bench? are you telling me the altercation occurred on the lakers bench? then why wasnt every laker involved? no, odom got up and approached them when the smart thing to do was sit still or walk away.

the only good argument a laker fan has made so far was to post those videos of the rest of jackson's handiwork, which only confirms the man is completely incompetent and should be fired. randolph and west got away with slaps on the wrist relative to what they did. and of course, the celtics have been getting away with all kinds of BS since they got KG.

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 03:13 PM

The fact that you think Ric Bucher is a Laker sword swallower is laughable.

"KOBE BRYANT HAS PLAYED HIS LAST GAME IN A LAKER UNIFORM! I BET MY LIFE ON IT!"
Dude..House..give it up..you can't change the rules..I don't care if you are the Lakers..the rules are the rules..he left the bench in an altercation..he should be suspended...period.

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 03:13 PM

Spursmania

03-10-2009, 03:24 PM

And what if he didn't leave the bench?

That's what the NBA has to be debating. Its easy to argue he never left the bench even as he stepped towards the altercation.

You, Sir, are a biased Laker fan and cannot be taken seriously! We don't need the US SUPREME COURT to rule on this simple matter.

The player must remain on the bench-what part of it don't you get? There are no exceptions to the rule, such as the ones you are trying to make-up.
Odom deserves a suspension because he left the bench period. Your made up theory of he "has to be on the floor' and others are just that made up theories and not actually the rule. We know you love your Lakers but get real.:nope

Espn reported:

No punches were thrown, and the fracas was rather mild by historical standards, but Portland's Brandon Roy appeared to grab at or shove Ariza before turning his attention to Odom, who appeared to come off the Lakers bench and walk approximately 15 feet toward the fray.

"I stood up, but I stood right there -- I didn't go nowhere," Odom said.

Yeah, sure Lamar. Why don't you look at the video of yourself so you can see you did not just stand up. You did not remain on the bench. You should get suspended. But please Stern only for one game because we want to see him in SA this Thursday.:toast

YoMamaIsCallin

03-10-2009, 05:07 PM

Yes I've played and coached. So bad timing warrants a suspension?

Your original statement was:

Can't block a shot from behind without swinging.

I guess you're admitting you were wrong and trying to change the subject, since I destroyed your original statement.

If you have played like you say, and if you are big enough or can jump high enough to be a shot-blocker, you know you're wrong. You know that you go up with the guy and you can decide whether to go for the block, to hold off because you can't block it without fouling him, or to just whale away because you're trying to send a message.

Ariza, quite obviously, chose option 3. And he made it worse by grabbing Fernandez, after hitting him in the head, and turning him in the air so he couldn't land on his feet.

It was a nasty, dirty, thuggish play. And Ariza's lying his ass off when he says he was "going for the ball". He never got near touching the ball (watch the replay).

The Lakers are Stu Jackson's boys, and he proved it today.

DrHouse

03-10-2009, 05:14 PM

:lmao at butt hurt Spur fan who is now realizing that the NBA does not look at the Lakers through their same hater colored glasses.

Mugen

03-10-2009, 05:52 PM

at least odom got suspended for a game.

Banzai

03-10-2009, 05:56 PM

at least odom got suspended for a game.

:wow

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 06:19 PM

:lmao at butt hurt Spur fan who is now realizing that the NBA does not look at the Lakers through their same hater colored glasses.
Let's try this again...
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Same play as the Ariza play, douchebag. He got suspended..why shouldn't Trevor?

21_Blessings

03-10-2009, 06:23 PM

^^ Are you dumb? Ariza played the ball, not the head.

mogrovejo

03-10-2009, 06:24 PM

He arguably attempted to hit the ball, but he also played the head. There are photos who make this pretty clear.

Anyway, Odom with a 1 game suspension.

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 06:29 PM

^^ Are you dumb? Ariza played the ball, not the head.
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-03/45487553.jpg
He's not even looking at the ball...be real dude...he wasn't trying to go after the ball, because in reality, it would have been simple for him to hit the ball. Horford was in a situation where Ford moved out of his reach too quickly. Ariza simply took a swipe. That's dangerous..and is a suspension..period. Or at least it should be, but because he's a Laker, it's not. And Laker fan can stand behind it all you want, but it's bullshit, and everyone else knows it.

DrHouse

03-10-2009, 07:14 PM

Not a dirty foul. A hard foul for sure, but not dirty.

Stop whining Spur fan, you're worse than Blazer fan right now.

Spursfan092120

03-10-2009, 07:16 PM

Not a dirty foul. A hard foul for sure, but not dirty.

Stop whining Spur fan, you're worse than Blazer fan right now.
Dirty..hard...still deserving of a suspension, either way. You don't seem to comprehend that a foul doesn't have to be dirty for a suspension...once again the fact that you're a Lakers fan blinds you to reality.

cobbler

03-10-2009, 10:43 PM

jmanu20

03-10-2009, 10:59 PM

So all the haters who predicted that Odom would get some preferential Laker treatment .... FAILED

Ariza got a flagrant 2 which was appropriate. There was no intention to hurt and anyone who says he went after Rudy's head is a complete moron. If you have watched Ariza at all over his career you would know he is very adept at jumping to the side and swatting the ball just as he tried to do last night. He misjudged, brushed the head and due to the nature of the fall got a DESERVED flagrant 2. No intent to harm thus no suspension.

Let it go... time to move on...

I'm one of those who did NOT think that Odom would get preferential Laker treatment, he left the bench, the tape shows that, that's a cut and dry 1 game suspension.

However, any of you Laker fans who are defending this play must be blind because the picture that obviously shows he is NOT going for the ball is all over this thread. I also echo the sentiments of previous posters that this is basically the EXACT SAME FOUL that Horford committed on Ford last year and Horford had to sit out a game.

So, Ariza got preferential Laker treatment.

iggypop123

03-10-2009, 11:20 PM

odom didnt step on to the court, but did leave the bench area. rules are rules and they are just enforcing them. nothing you can do. now its undermaned even more against the rockets

rogcl1

03-11-2009, 10:47 AM

Your original statement was:

I guess you're admitting you were wrong and trying to change the subject, since I destroyed your original statement.

If you have played like you say, and if you are big enough or can jump high enough to be a shot-blocker, you know you're wrong. You know that you go up with the guy and you can decide whether to go for the block, to hold off because you can't block it without fouling him, or to just whale away because you're trying to send a message.

Ariza, quite obviously, chose option 3. And he made it worse by grabbing Fernandez, after hitting him in the head, and turning him in the air so he couldn't land on his feet.

It was a nasty, dirty, thuggish play. And Ariza's lying his ass off when he says he was "going for the ball". He never got near touching the ball (watch the replay).

The Lakers are Stu Jackson's boys, and he proved it today.

OK , now Rudy is fully extended in the air and Ariza chooses to from behind to club him in the head and swipe at the ball. Maybe a legitimate attempt to block or just a poor decision on a play that could not be made. But what makes me wonder about his intentions is as you mentioned the grabbing of Rudy's arm/wrist as he is extended in the air.This is what caused the awkward landing. Why is he grabing and pulling Rudy into an awkward fall?Only Ariza can know for sure. I think that part is what makes it an extremely chickenshit and dangerous play.

Chomag

03-11-2009, 01:08 PM

Lakers fans can defend this all they want but we all know that had this been another player on another team he would have been suspended with no questions asked. As it's been proven many times before.

Like a couple of seasons ago how can you suspend Horry for hip checking Nash (which wasn't that bad but Nash made look much worse) for two games and not even one for Ariza?

RedsLakers24

03-11-2009, 01:15 PM

rogcl1

03-11-2009, 05:04 PM

why is it that the spurs fan are arguing but blazer fans dont even care? i been looking at other forums from the blazers and they said that Ariza did not deserve a suspension, well most fans, spurs fan want to hang the lakers for commiting one foul

Because its a message board that discusses ,players , coaches,issues ,events, happenings ,ect. of the NBA?

It doesn't matter if Ariza is a Laker or not. It was a chickenshit foul.
If that had been Kobe fouled by Bowen on exactly the same play ,I doubt the Laker fans would have been happy with timvp's tongue in cheek four game suspension suggestion.

And if the Blazers fans don't care as you say about a foul such as that to one of their players then perhaps they should . But I doubt thats the case.

phxspurfan

03-11-2009, 05:45 PM

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-03/45487553.jpg
He's not even looking at the ball...be real dude...he wasn't trying to go after the ball, because in reality, it would have been simple for him to hit the ball. Horford was in a situation where Ford moved out of his reach too quickly. Ariza simply took a swipe. That's dangerous..and is a suspension..period. Or at least it should be, but because he's a Laker, it's not. And Laker fan can stand behind it all you want, but it's bullshit, and everyone else knows it.

I think a good question to ask is:

If Rudy had gotten seriously hurt by this incident, instead of just bruised, would the league hand out a suspension?

It's hard to say the outcome would be any different but if you look at how he fell, it could have easily been the case -- which is what the rule intends to prevent. I think not suspending Ariza for this case sends a message that hard fouls, if made to look like unintentional swipes at the ball, are becoming ok again.

I also couldn't imagine this same non-suspension playing out if, say, the layup man were LeBron.

The Franchise

03-11-2009, 05:49 PM

^ Good point. Had it been "Lebaron" the league would have voided Arizas' contract.

cobbler

03-12-2009, 12:39 AM

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-03/45487553.jpg
He's not even looking at the ball...be real dude...he wasn't trying to go after the ball, because in reality, it would have been simple for him to hit the ball. Horford was in a situation where Ford moved out of his reach too quickly. Ariza simply took a swipe. That's dangerous..and is a suspension..period. Or at least it should be, but because he's a Laker, it's not. And Laker fan can stand behind it all you want, but it's bullshit, and everyone else knows it.

You are an idiot and try to use one picture to spew your nonsense. Clearly if you watch the video you can see him go for the ball. He was running from left to right in your pic and swiping as he did. In fact, your pic is after he hit the ball and rudy's left had with the ball moved quicker than rudys right hand, arizas hand, and arizas head. Ie. Ariza's looking at that second...where the ball previously was. I am at work and dont have photoshop so please excuse the guality of the pic... but you can clearly see that this pic was taken millisecond before yours. As you can see, arizas hand is on the ball... thats where hes looking... and where he is still looking milleseconds later when you decided to stop tape and post your BS.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq115/cobblerphoto/ariza.jpg
When I get home ill post a better quality pic to show your nonsense of a statement