Obama touts merit pay, charter schools in education speech

[Winehole23]

Obama, taking on unions, backs teacher merit pay (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iT--F725ypsNTaNrulnuCGd8vt0QD96RC0PO0)


By PHILIP ELLIOTT – 55 minutes ago


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama embraced merit pay for teachers Tuesday in spelling out a vision of education that will almost certainly alienate union backers. A strategy that ties teacher pay to student performance has for years been anathema to teachers' unions, a powerful force in the Democratic Party. These unions also are wary of charter schools, non-traditional educational systems that they believe also compete with traditional schools for tax dollars.


Obama, however, also spoke favorably of charter schools, saying that where they work, they should be encouraged.


He did acknowledge in his speech to the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce that his proposals could meet heavy resistance in the education establishment.


"Too many supporters of my party have resisted the idea of rewarding excellence in teaching with extra pay, even though we know it can make a difference in the classroom," he said, delivering the first major education speech of his presidency. "Too many in the Republican Party have opposed new investments in early education, despite compelling evidence of its importance."


But he argued that a far-reaching overhaul of the nation's education system is an economic imperative that can't wait, despite the urgency of the financial crisis and other pressing issues.


"Despite resources that are unmatched anywhere in the world, we have let our grades slip, our schools crumble, our teacher quality fall short, and other nations outpace us," Obama said. "The relative decline of American education is untenable for our economy, unsustainable for our democracy, and unacceptable for our children. We cannot afford to let it continue. What is at stake is nothing less than the American dream."


The ideas the president promoted were nearly all elements of his campaign platform last year. He only barely mentioned the reauthorization of the Bush-era No Child Left Behind Act, which introduced sweeping reforms that schools are struggling to meet without the funding to match. Obama said his administration would "later this year" ensure that schools get the funding they need and that the money is conditioned on results.
Among the principles Obama laid out were:


_Challenging states to adopt world-class standards rather than a specific standard. Obama's economic stimulus plan includes a $5 billion incentive fund to reward states for, among other things, boosting the quality of standards and state tests, and the president said the Education Department would create a fund to invest in innovation.


_Improved pre-kindergarten programs, including $5 billion in the stimulus plan to grow Head Start, expand child care access and do more for children with special needs. He also said he would offer 55,000 first-time parents regular visits from trained nurses and said that states that develop cutting-edge plans to raise the quality of early learning programs would get an Early Learning Challenge Grant, if Congress approves the new program.
_Reducing student dropout rates. To students, Obama said: "Don't even think about dropping out of school." But he said that reducing the dropout rates also requires turning around the worst schools, something he asked lawmakers, parents and teachers to make "our collective responsibility as Americans."


_Repeating his call for everyone to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training, with the goal of highest proportion of college graduates in the world by the year 2020.


On charter schools, he said the caps instituted by some states on how many are allowed aren't "good for our children, our economy, or our country."


Obama also spoke at length about what he described his policy toward teachers, what he called an `unprecedented commitment to ensure that anyone entrusted with educating our children is doing the job as well as it can be done." In up to 150 more school districts, Obama said, teachers will get mentoring, more money for improved student achievement and new responsibilities.


Also, Obama said, "We need to make sure our students have the teacher they need to be successful. That means states and school districts taking steps to move bad teachers out of the classroom. Let me be clear: if a teacher is given a chance but still does not improve, there is no excuse for that person to continue teaching."


The president acknowledged that a rethinking of the traditional American school day may not be welcome — "not in my family, and probably not in yours" — but is critical.


"The challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom," Obama said. "If they can do that in South Korea, we can do it right here in the United States of America."


After the speech, Obama stopped at a hotel to drop in on another meeting, an already scheduled and ongoing round-table discussion between Education Secretary Arne Duncan and the Council of Chief State School Officers, which involves the heads of education from every state and U.S. territory.

[LnGrrrR]

But...but... Obama is an evil liberal! That must mean that teacher merit pay is EVIL!!

Expect conservatives to rail that Obama's plan is A) not conservative enough, or B) will support welfare queens and black people somehow, ie. wrong.

[micca]

Obama, taking on unions, backs teacher merit pay (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iT--F725ypsNTaNrulnuCGd8vt0QD96RC0PO0)


By PHILIP ELLIOTT – 55 minutes ago


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama embraced merit pay for teachers Tuesday in spelling out a vision of education that will almost certainly alienate union backers. A strategy that ties teacher pay to student performance has for years been anathema to teachers' unions, a powerful force in the Democratic Party. These unions also are wary of charter schools, non-traditional educational systems that they believe also compete with traditional schools for tax dollars.


Obama, however, also spoke favorably of charter schools, saying that where they work, they should be encouraged.


He did acknowledge in his speech to the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce that his proposals could meet heavy resistance in the education establishment.


"Too many supporters of my party have resisted the idea of rewarding excellence in teaching with extra pay, even though we know it can make a difference in the classroom," he said, delivering the first major education speech of his presidency. "Too many in the Republican Party have opposed new investments in early education, despite compelling evidence of its importance."


But he argued that a far-reaching overhaul of the nation's education system is an economic imperative that can't wait, despite the urgency of the financial crisis and other pressing issues.


"Despite resources that are unmatched anywhere in the world, we have let our grades slip, our schools crumble, our teacher quality fall short, and other nations outpace us," Obama said. "The relative decline of American education is untenable for our economy, unsustainable for our democracy, and unacceptable for our children. We cannot afford to let it continue. What is at stake is nothing less than the American dream."


The ideas the president promoted were nearly all elements of his campaign platform last year. He only barely mentioned the reauthorization of the Bush-era No Child Left Behind Act, which introduced sweeping reforms that schools are struggling to meet without the funding to match. Obama said his administration would "later this year" ensure that schools get the funding they need and that the money is conditioned on results.
Among the principles Obama laid out were:


_Challenging states to adopt world-class standards rather than a specific standard. Obama's economic stimulus plan includes a $5 billion incentive fund to reward states for, among other things, boosting the quality of standards and state tests, and the president said the Education Department would create a fund to invest in innovation.


_Improved pre-kindergarten programs, including $5 billion in the stimulus plan to grow Head Start, expand child care access and do more for children with special needs. He also said he would offer 55,000 first-time parents regular visits from trained nurses and said that states that develop cutting-edge plans to raise the quality of early learning programs would get an Early Learning Challenge Grant, if Congress approves the new program.
_Reducing student dropout rates. To students, Obama said: "Don't even think about dropping out of school." But he said that reducing the dropout rates also requires turning around the worst schools, something he asked lawmakers, parents and teachers to make "our collective responsibility as Americans."


_Repeating his call for everyone to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training, with the goal of highest proportion of college graduates in the world by the year 2020.


On charter schools, he said the caps instituted by some states on how many are allowed aren't "good for our children, our economy, or our country."


Obama also spoke at length about what he described his policy toward teachers, what he called an `unprecedented commitment to ensure that anyone entrusted with educating our children is doing the job as well as it can be done." In up to 150 more school districts, Obama said, teachers will get mentoring, more money for improved student achievement and new responsibilities.


Also, Obama said, "We need to make sure our students have the teacher they need to be successful. That means states and school districts taking steps to move bad teachers out of the classroom. Let me be clear: if a teacher is given a chance but still does not improve, there is no excuse for that person to continue teaching."


The president acknowledged that a rethinking of the traditional American school day may not be welcome — "not in my family, and probably not in yours" — but is critical.


"The challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom," Obama said. "If they can do that in South Korea, we can do it right here in the United States of America."


After the speech, Obama stopped at a hotel to drop in on another meeting, an already scheduled and ongoing round-table discussion between Education Secretary Arne Duncan and the Council of Chief State School Officers, which involves the heads of education from every state and U.S. territory.


HA HA HA the politicians threw another union under the bus,as soon as they outlived their usefullness they were jetsoned, just like Clinton did with the AFL_CIO he promised the unions not to sign NAFTA they voted for him and as soon as he got elected he signed NAFTA which has hurt both mexican and American workers.

[Wild Cobra]

HA HA HA the politicians threw another union under the bus,as soon as they outlived their usefullness they were jetsoned, just like Clinton did with the AFL_CIO he promised the unions not to sign NAFTA they voted for him and as soon as he got elected he signed NAFTA which has hurt both mexican and American workers.

Except they are still working on "Card Check." Removing the freedom of the private vote...

[Winehole23]

HA HA HA the politicians threw another union under the bus,as soon as they outlived their usefullness they were jetsonedI thought the Dems didn't have the guts to stand up to the teacher's union. If the union stands in the way of better education, how does it hurt America to ditch the union?

[MannyIsGod]

Do not confuse Obama with the Dems. I doubt the Dems in congress like this type of plan.

[Winehole23]

Do not confuse Obama with the Dems. I doubt the Dems in congress like this type of plan.Fuck the Dems then. Education reform needs to be radical. Fuck the goddam union too. Too seldom is the question asked: is our children learning?

[Nbadan]

Merit pay is stupid...all it does it take away good teachers in south and west side districts where the kids struggle to make the grade (through no fault of teachers who work just as hard if not harder) to the North and Northeast side districts where the kids do make the grades (same teacher, same methods)....

.....what we need is someway to motivate students at school to learn who aren't being motivated at home..and a way of permanently removing serious discipline issue kids from the regular classroom into boot-camp type schools

[MannyIsGod]

Fuck the Dems then. Education reform needs to be radical. Fuck the goddam union too. Too seldom is the question asked: is our children learning?

When I was in NM this fall working with the Obama campaign there were 2 subjecs that got me into debates (read arguments) with people I worked with: Gun Control and Teachers Unions.

I guess we'll see just how good Obama is.

[Nbadan]

Teacher's Unions only have the power to lobby and to vote...that's it....

[Winehole23]

Merit pay is stupid...all it does it take away good teachers in south and west side districts where the kids struggle to make the grade (through no fault of teachers who work just as hard if not harder) to the North and Northeast side districts where the kids do make the grades (same teacher, same methods)....

.....what we need is someway to motivate students at school to learn who aren't being motivated at home..and a way of permanently removing serious discipline issue kids from the regular classroom into boot-camp type schoolsYou know, you have a point Dan. I believe in merit pay, but not in tracking it with standardized tests. In fact, if education reaches out to the hardest cases, and strives to keep them in school instead of encouraging them to drop out (to raise standardized scores), we should expect scores to go down in the short term. There should be incentives for the best teachers to stay in very bad schools, where they're needed very badly.

[Nbadan]

....good teachers are recruited by North and Northeast schools, especially in high-need areas - (i.e. math and science), you really have to like working with economically disadvantaged youth to keep working at one of these districts because you really, really have to work hard...in fact, I believe that less than 10% of the U.S. working population could do that job for more than a couple of years....

[Winehole23]

....good teachers are recruited by North and Northeast schools, especially in high-need areas - (i.e. math and science), you really have to like working with economically disadvantaged youth to keep working at one of these districts because you really, really have to work hard...in fact, I believe that less than 10% of the U.S. working population could do that job for more than a couple of years....So then you can see my point about giving that 10% some kind of incentive to do a very tough job, no?

[Nbadan]

...yep, better pay for experienced teachers is needed, but the trouble with schools is that these kids don't measure up with kids from the Northside and Northeast side - and the only way to change that is finding a way of handling the 1/3 trouble kids who bring the others and the whole system down and also motivating the 2/3 kids in these schools who want to do well to push themselves even harder...

[LockBeard]

.....what we need is someway to motivate students at school to learn who aren't being motivated at home..and a way of permanently removing serious discipline issue kids from the regular classroom into boot-camp type schools

yesyesyes

If the schools would just kick out these dumbfuck kids who go to school to goof around then the teachers could actually.....teach.

It starts in the homes. If the parents are scumbags, 80% of the kids will be little shitheads. Clean up the schools, let teachers actually discipline again, and you will have your freedom...err education.

If you want to go to school and create drama, get the fuck out and start your fast food career earlier.

If you want to fix schools, you have to attack poverty and the culture. Not this liberal bullshit where we throw you some crumbs to keep you down and dependent, but actually get shit done. Last I checked government has been pissing away more and more on schools and overall the performance still sucks.

You can't just throw money at something and wait for it to fix itself.

[DarrinS]

I predict Obama will relent on this issue.

[101A]

Re: Education Reform

101A is on the ballot (Republican AND Democrat Primaries) for his local school board.

[101A]

Oh, and, props to Barrack. Showing a different form of moxie with this.

[LnGrrrR]

Merit pay is stupid...all it does it take away good teachers in south and west side districts where the kids struggle to make the grade (through no fault of teachers who work just as hard if not harder) to the North and Northeast side districts where the kids do make the grades (same teacher, same methods)....

.....what we need is someway to motivate students at school to learn who aren't being motivated at home..and a way of permanently removing serious discipline issue kids from the regular classroom into boot-camp type schools

Can I be a dick here and just say that if southerners are too dumb to learn, that's their fault? :D

[balli]

Given the nature of my father's business and my family's own selfish monetary interests, charter schools FTW!!!

[Blake]

The idea of changing our standardized tests to meet global standards is long overdue, yet it's very small piece of the puzzle.

As a country we are already spending more student that any other nation if I'm not mistaken, so money is not necessarily the issue.

Merit pay also sounds great on the surface, but realistically how do you judge who deserves the extra pay and who does the judging? .....and there are several other issues and details that Obama needs to lay out for me to buy into it.

for the record, NEISD and NISD are the two higest paying districts in town...
so basically the way it goes is that a first year teacher normally gets hired in a rougher low paying district, puts in a year or two there, and heads for one of these two districts when the job opens......

....and since the bulk of district funding comes from local property taxes, unless the federal (or even state) govt steps in and somehow makes up the salary difference and then some, there is no way this trend will ever change.

I don't have it in front of me, but I'm pretty sure NEISD and NISD both start at $45,000+........whereas I'm not sure if any other district in SA (other than Southwest ISD) start at more than $43k.....some less than $40k

[Blake]

Given the nature of my father's business and my family's own selfish monetary interests, charter schools FTW!!!

I could be wrong in my thinking, but everything Ive ever heard about charter schools makes me think that in general they almost all suck.

[balli]

I could be wrong in my thinking, but everything Ive ever heard about charter schools makes me think that in general they almost all suck.

I don't give a fuck. In fact I bet they do. But since my pop owns an architecture firm that mainly designs churches and schools, I'm down. Hey, I said my position was based on selfish familial interests, did I not?

[desflood]

I could be wrong in my thinking, but everything Ive ever heard about charter schools makes me think that in general they almost all suck.
But hey - they couldn't suck any worse than regular public schools!

[MannyIsGod]

I could be wrong in my thinking, but everything Ive ever heard about charter schools makes me think that in general they almost all suck.

Link?

I've seen studies that say both things.

[DarrinS]

Merit pay? Is that anything like a bonus?

[desflood]

I've seen studies that say both things.
I've seen several studies that seem to show charter schools not all they're cracked up to be - but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. If a kid's been going to public school, say, for six years - the entire elementary school - a charter isn't going to be able to fix all those years of damage in one year, or probably even two. It isn't possible.

[RandomGuy]

If you want to fix schools, you have to attack poverty and the culture. Not this liberal bullshit where we throw you some crumbs to keep you down and dependent, but actually get shit done. Last I checked government has been pissing away more and more on schools and overall the performance still sucks.

You can't just throw money at something and wait for it to fix itself.

You mean like building more jails and hoping that crime goes away?

You have to attack poverty and the culture, not the conservative bullshit where you lock kids up uselessly to keep them down and dependent, but actually get shit done.

[Blake]

Link?

I've seen studies that say both things.

no link. Just what I've heard and what I think based on people I personally know that have gone the charter route.

Feel free to share these studies you've seen.

[johnsmith]

no link. Just what I've heard and what I think based on people I personally know that have gone the charter route.

Feel free to share these studies you've seen.

Don't you know that if you express OPINION in this forum, that you must back it up with a link.........you know, to prove your OPINION.

[Blake]

I don't give a fuck. In fact I bet they do. But since my pop owns an architecture firm that mainly designs churches and schools, I'm down. Hey, I said my position was based on selfish familial interests, did I not?

yes, you did. I don't recall calling you out for being selfish and not giving a fock about how well charter schools do.

[Blake]

Don't you know that if you express OPINION in this forum, that you must back it up with a link.........you know, to prove your OPINION.

link?

[johnsmith]

My bad:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3200348#post3200348

Post #30