Serious people debating comedians

[DarrinS]

Bill Maher vs. Ann Coulter

and now Jon Stewart vs. Jim Cramer


I don't know who's going to out-douche each other in Maher vs. Coulter, but the more I watch Jon Stewart, the more I think that Cramer is going to be on the losing end of that battle.

[DarrinS]

Jim Cramer will be on The Daily Show today.


http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=220524&title=tomorrows-jim-cramer-battle

[Oh, Gee!!]

Bill Maher vs. Ann Coulter

which one is the "serious" person?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I hardly think Coulter can be considered a serious person...

[ChumpDumper]

When are you going to list some serious people?

[DarrinS]

When are you going to list some serious people?


I think you smartasses know what I meant.

[ChumpDumper]

If the "serious" person gets into a debate with a comedian, the comedian has already won and the "serious" person cannot be regarded as serious.

I mean, come on -- Cramer and CNBC look like idiots trying to run damage control on this. All they are doing is giving Stewart more footage to play on his show.

[MannyIsGod]

You don't have to like Bill Maher or Stewart, but to think they are anything but smart is pretty damn foolish.

[Bartleby]

They should have learned this already by watching what happened to Tucker Carlson.

[ChumpDumper]

They should have learned this already by watching what happened to Tucker Carlson.Or by watching Billo, et.al., react to Keith Olbermann's show on their own damn network.

[DarrinS]

If the "serious" person gets into a debate with a comedian, the comedian has already won and the "serious" person cannot be regarded as serious.

I mean, come on -- Cramer and CNBC look like idiots trying to run damage control on this. All they are doing is giving Stewart more footage to play on his show.


That is exactly my point.

[ChumpDumper]

That is exactly my point.Except there are no serious people.

[DarrinS]

You don't have to like Bill Maher or Stewart, but to think they are anything but smart is pretty damn foolish.


Stewart is obviously a smart dude.

[DarrinS]

Except there are no serious people.


Do you prefer the term non-comedian?

[ChumpDumper]

Do you prefer the term non-comedian?Have you actually watched Coulter and Cramer?

I don't know what word other than "comedian" to describe them. They are terrible comedians, but comedians nonetheless.

[DarrinS]

Have you actually watched Coulter and Cramer?

I don't know what word other than "comedian" to describe them. They are terrible comedians, but comedians nonetheless.


They can't be any worse than Maher. I don't think he's very funny.
Stewart is pretty funny, but I thought Craig Kilborn was pretty good on that show too.

[DarrinS]

They should have learned this already by watching what happened to Tucker Carlson.

What happened to him?

[MannyIsGod]

Cramer is an entertainer just like everyone else on there. If I had to rank one as the least, I'd rank Coulter but Cramer isn't far behind. If Cramer is so fucking smart regarding the stock market, how is he not rich as hell? I mean doens't it seem to reason that if the guy is going to advise you he should have an insane amount of money gained from using his own tips?

His schtick is just to yell loudly into a camera. Thats it. Maher annoys me on his religion rants, but his show is actually excellent and far better than a lot of other shows in that genre simply because he gets a lot more candor out of his guests than anyone else. The absence of political correctness is refreshing even if his rabid ideology can be annoying at times. He's also one of the few places where you get the absolute truth about subjects such as drug companies and their lobby, farm subsidies, and health care reform. His guests tend to be pretty damn good as well. The T Boone Pickens segment last week was decent - especially when Pickens basically admitted he slandared John Kerry during the campaign andStew how much of a mistkae that was.

Stewart will own Cramer. If you need proof go look at the Crossfire episode with Stewart. He basically shut that show down for good.

[ChumpDumper]

Maher is funny because the only ideology he panders to is his own.

Kilborn failed because he was ultimately too mean-spirited for a comedy show. That kind of douchebaggery works if you are "serious" though.

[DarrinS]

Cramer is an entertainer just like everyone else on there. If I had to rank one as the least, I'd rank Coulter but Cramer isn't far behind. If Cramer is so fucking smart regarding the stock market, how is he not rich as hell? I mean doens't it seem to reason that if the guy is going to advise you he should have an insane amount of money gained from using his own tips?


Can't argue with that.




His schtick is just to yell loudly into a camera. Thats it.


Works for Keith Olbermann.



Maher annoys me on his religion rants, but his show is actually excellent and far better than a lot of other shows in that genre simply because he gets a lot more candor out of his guests than anyone else. The absence of political correctness is refreshing even if his rabid ideology can be annoying at times.


I just don't think that many of his guests challenge him on anything.

[DarrinS]

Kilborn failed because he was ultimately too mean-spirited for a comedy show. That kind of douchebaggery works if you are "serious" though.


In what way was he mean-spirited?

[MannyIsGod]

I just don't think that many of his guests challenge him on anything.

You don't watch do you?

[DarrinS]

You don't watch do you?


It's not a scheduled recording on my DVR.

[ChumpDumper]

In what way was he mean-spirited?Pretty much every way imaginable, but that was the environment of the whole show back then. Steve Carell said in an interview that he was embarrassed when he got sent out to talk with clearly insane people just to make fun of them. That's when he started satirizing the newspeople themselves in his bits. His and Stewart's way (skewer the newsmakers and media with a certain amount of self-deprication) seems to have worked out a little better than that of Kilborn and the old staff (try to play up your arrogance to pretend you aren't that arrogant).

[MannyIsGod]

aFQFB5YpDZELOL Carlson. This is such an epic clip.

[MannyIsGod]

It's not a scheduled recording on my DVR.

What are you basing your above opinion on then?

[ChumpDumper]

What happened to him?Carlson had a show on MSNBC for awhile. Now he just writes for Esquire and other periodicals.

[DarrinS]

What are you basing your above opinion on then?


The few times I've watched it, I didn't notice any of his guest challenge Maher on anything.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

aFQFB5YpDZELOL Carlson. This is such an epic clip.

to be fair, Stewart criticizes from behind the "comedy" shield. This is what makes any debate with him un-winnable. He'll take jabs in the name of comedy, and hide behind it when jabs are aimed at him. Its what makes his act practically impermeable to criticism.

Granted, I think he is a very smart man, and funny as hell, but to think he owns people because he is smarter than them isn't really accurate. Its hard to compete with someone on a serious debate when he can simpl say "yeah, but I'm just a comedian, I only have to make you laugh"

P.S. by the way, I have absolutely no doubt that Stewart is going to make a fool out of Jim Cramer. They are not even in the same league those two.

[MannyIsGod]

Wait, why should they have to compare themselves to him in order to "win"? Either they are providing honest debate or they aren't, what Jon Stewart does is absolutely irrelevant to that. The point is that Stewart doesn't claim to rise to that standard MM. THEY did. When Tucker goes after Stewart the point is that Tucker can't defend himself without atatcking Stewart so he attacks to divert attention. Thats all you see on these shows.

"Why do you do this?"

"Well HE does this?"


Its not about what HE does, its about what YOU do and you shouldn't have to deflect to address that.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Wait, why should they have to compare themselves to him in order to "win"? Either they are providing honest debate or they aren't, what Jon Stewart does is absolutely irrelevant to that. The point is that Stewart doesn't claim to rise to that standard MM. THEY did. When Tucker goes after Stewart the point is that Tucker can't defend himself without atatcking Stewart so he attacks to divert attention. Thats all you see on these shows.

"Why do you do this?"

"Well HE does this?"


Its not about what HE does, its about what YOU do and you shouldn't have to deflect to address that.

I suppose you're right.

[ChumpDumper]

That's the funny part about the Cramer debacle. Once he cried foul, the Daily Show staff actually dug deeper and found more damning clips of his pimping Bear Stearns. These guys shouldn't want TDS to get serious, because they actually can get serious and they'll be a dog with a bone if they are called out.

[InK]

That's the funny part about the Cramer debacle. Once he cried foul, the Daily Show staff actually dug deeper and found more damning clips of his pimping Bear Stearns.

Yep, this whole "war of words" ended with that show. Today Cramer will be nothing but apologetic about what arose from this back and forth bashing. I at least see no other reason why the guy would accept to appear on TDS.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Yeah, Cramer is toast

[Ignignokt]

to be fair, Stewart criticizes from behind the "comedy" shield. This is what makes any debate with him un-winnable. He'll take jabs in the name of comedy, and hide behind it when jabs are aimed at him. Its what makes his act practically impermeable to criticism.

Granted, I think he is a very smart man, and funny as hell, but to think he owns people because he is smarter than them isn't really accurate. Its hard to compete with someone on a serious debate when he can simpl say "yeah, but I'm just a comedian, I only have to make you laugh"

P.S. by the way, I have absolutely no doubt that Stewart is going to make a fool out of Jim Cramer. They are not even in the same league those two.


hit the nail on the head.

Plus, his show has even worst consequences than crossfire, even though it is a comedy show. (try telling that to his fans that his commentary cannot be taken seriously, point in fact)

His whole "Crossfire is hurting America" and the whole "Corporate Pawn" angle was so melodramatic and stupid, but Carlson was to angry to respond well. He should have left stewart expand more on those points, see if he had any substance.

[Ignignokt]

Dude, if Cramer has a chance, he has to admit that he's wrong at times, but be on the attack, and not concede anything. And he's gonna have to not be mean spirited about it, or Stewart will eat him alive.


Very slim chance he comes out even.

[Whisky Dog]

The whole problem with all of this "debate" stuff the way it is now is that people feel like they have to be on the attack. If you really believe in what you do and what you stand for then there is no reason to attack. The only people who feel the need to defend themselves by attacking are people who know they are frauds in some sense.

BTW, that clip was great. Not much from a substance standpoint, although it does make a valid point.

"How old are you?"
"35"
"You're 35 and you wear a bowtie? Come on, this is just theater":lmao

It isn't hard to see why people got tired of Tucker. What a douche. Of course, with a name like Tucker and a bowtie, what do you expect?

[MannyIsGod]

I personally like when he calls him a dick. :lmao

You probably shouldn't try to outwit a comedian.

[Blake]

watching Stewart own Cramer is friggin hilarious

[The Power Hour.]

to be fair,

What planet do you live on?