Compare Bowen, Mason and Hill Defense On Kobe [Archive]

Libri

03-13-2009, 01:34 AM

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/a9/fullj.10cc3398b8eabae5e5ca51f651b2d441/10cc3398b8eabae5e5ca51f651b2d441-getty-82992265ge012_lakers_spurs.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/d1/fullj.4660103e9d02431c32bce8136dd3af6c/4660103e9d02431c32bce8136dd3af6c-getty-82992265dce_lakers_spurs.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/62/fullj.d634dd1e02631624dee001d3f15b0a1a/d634dd1e02631624dee001d3f15b0a1a-getty-82992265dce_lakers_spurs.jpg

Libri

03-13-2009, 01:52 AM

It's clear from the pic that Bowen's strategy is not to block Kobe's shot but to obstruct his vision. Hill has long arms and can learn Bowen's technique when guarding taller players.

Allanon

03-13-2009, 01:58 AM

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/62/fullj.d634dd1e02631624dee001d3f15b0a1a/d634dd1e02631624dee001d3f15b0a1a-getty-82992265dce_lakers_spurs.jpg

This one says it all about Mason's defense on Kobe. Great pics.

Cry_For_Me_Sky

03-13-2009, 02:17 AM

For a rookie.. Hill is getting better at defense.. His long arms play a great role in that part..

HarlemHeat37

03-13-2009, 02:38 AM

Mason should never guard Kobe for significant stretches, Pop needs to get over that..

raspsa

03-13-2009, 02:52 AM

For a rookie.. Hill is getting better at defense.. His long arms play a great role in that part..

Funny but his arms don't look that long in the pic.
Mason looks like he's trying to cast a spell on Kobe.

And speaking of Kobe, does he have turtle DNA? Against hill he seems to have retracted his head just like my pet turtle used to do.:lol:lol. against Mason, the head is back to normal.. Kobe does seem to have a small head though..:lol:lol

Cry_For_Me_Sky

03-13-2009, 02:56 AM

Funny but his arms don't look that long in the pic.

may not look like it.. but they are.. especially in person..

WalterBenitez

03-13-2009, 04:21 AM

Come on People!

Bowen guards Kobe, Hill try to ..., Mason... only compliment Kobe

AussieFanKurt

03-13-2009, 06:09 AM

George Hill
puttin' in a great effort.

genomefreak13

03-13-2009, 06:54 AM

Spurs lacking answers for Kobe, Lakers

By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports 3 hours, 59 minutes ago

xxx

In those tense final minutes, with the Spurs having clawed within two, Bryant looked across the court to see a rookie guarding him. His first thought?

“Bake him.”

Bryant’s old rival, the man who had chased him through so many of those playoff battles, sat on the bench watching. Bruce Bowen doesn’t start games these days and, on many nights, he also doesn’t finish them.

But Thursday was different. With Roger Mason having picked up his fifth foul with two minutes left, the Spurs needed someone to put on Bryant. Gregg Popovich looked down his bench, past Bowen, and called on his rookie guard, George Hill.

Looks like Pop is testing the waters again. He'll probably settle for a loss in the regular season than a loss in the playoffs.

I distinctly remember Pop saying in one of his interviews that he view the regular season not as a contest to be first but AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET BETTER AS THE SEASON GOES ALONG.

In putting Hill on Kobe , he might have been checking out how hill will playout against Kobe...obviously this is an opportunity to see how Kobe took advantage of him. So that he could the spurs can play better on defense against him in the playoffs.

AussieFanKurt

03-13-2009, 06:58 AM

kobe willed that shot in
great D from george

raspsa

03-13-2009, 08:53 AM

fraga

03-13-2009, 08:54 AM

I'd still want a "crafty" veteran guarding him rather than an inexperienced rookie...

raspsa

03-13-2009, 09:06 AM

Ariza and Artest are free agents next season IIRC. Too bad Batum isn't a Spur.Ariza has great length and athleticism and could be mentored by Bowen. Artest has the strength and toughness and is actually mellowing a bit in Houston. Either of those two would help plug the hole in the perimeter.

Allanon

03-13-2009, 09:14 AM

It's clear from the pic that Bowen's strategy is not to block Kobe's shot but to obstruct his vision. Hill has long arms and can learn Bowen's technique when guarding taller players.

Beyond the fact that Bowen is inherently a good defender, he is also 6'7 (about an inch taller than Kobe). Kobe does a fadeaway on alot of his shots so getting a hand in the face to obstruct his view is particularly hard for a shorter player.

Other guys who guard Kobe well are John Salmons 6'6, Batum 6'8, Shane Battier 6'8, James Posey 6'8. I would also suspect Trevor Ariza 6'8 can do a good job against Kobe.

I've never seen a 6'2 guy like George Hill who can guard Kobe. It's not a knock on Hill but he's just too short even with his freakish arms. And add to that, his hops at age 21 just aren't even as good as Kobe's at age 30.

The good news for you Spurs fans is that James Gist looks to have great potential at 6'8, great athleticism, speed and above average defense too.

I Love Me Some Me

03-13-2009, 09:14 AM

Kobe is in the prime of his career right now. He is the mosy unguardable player in the league. No one on the Spurs (or in the league for that matter) can stop him. The best you can do is hope he misses.

MoSpur

03-13-2009, 09:25 AM

I understand Pop's reasoning for putting Hill on Kobe. Hill has been playing some good defense as of late, but I don't agree with Pop's decision. I thought Bowen should have been in the game to guard Kobe when its Kobe time. Bowen has lost a step, but I still trust him more when it comes to guarding the best. Mason trying to guard Kobe is a joke. I am not trying to be mean, but he's nowhere near Bowen's defense. Hill is a better defender than Mason.

iilluzioN

03-13-2009, 09:49 AM

the only way to guard kobe, and make it hard for him is to have a 6'6 defender on him with tight defense and try to get kobe to drive to the basket and double team him once he does, Celtics found a way to stop him last year.

Extra Stout

03-13-2009, 09:49 AM

I Love Me Some Me

03-13-2009, 09:58 AM

Celtics had James Posey last year.
Pierce, surprisingly, also did a good job on him too.

SenorSpur

03-13-2009, 10:03 AM

With an aging Bowen playing less minutes, the need for an long athletic SF to defend the Kobes and LeBrons is really quite glaring. I don't think Hairston is the answer. Now if George Hill could grow 6 inches over the summer and put on 40lbs. then the Spurs would be set. If Gist does come over next season, I wonder if he has the mindset and the ability to play great perimeter defense; somehow I doubt it. I sometime wonder if the FO even considers this a priority.

This need has been glaring for about 3 seasons. In fact, ever since SJax left the building, the Spurs have had such a need. Yet, they chose to invest in a myriad of older shooters (Finley and Barry) and undersized wings (Udoka).

There was a time, prior to his leaving the Orlando Magic, when Trevor Ariza was available. Mikael Pietrus was avaiable this past summer too. Obviously, the Spurs didn't like either. So now, the need still exists.

Supergirl

03-13-2009, 10:09 AM

How did Mason get called for so many fouls if he played with that much spacing?

iilluzioN

03-13-2009, 10:10 AM

Pierce, surprisingly, also did a good job on him too.

surprisingly ?

Pierce is the shit!:toast

024

03-13-2009, 10:19 AM

mason on bryant in the playoffs will be just as disastrous as when udoka guarded bryant. herein lies even more importance in ginobili's health. with bowen seemingly unable to stay on the court long enough at 100%, spurs' next best perimeter defender is ginobili. i really think the spurs should have traded for salmons for this reason. with bowen unable to match kobe for a full 35-40 minutes in the playoffs, spurs needed to pick up another solid defender so that ginobili does not wear himself out guarding bryant.

VI_Massive

03-13-2009, 10:22 AM

Pop was definitely playing some CIA and some "let's see what happens if...." last night. Hill did as well as you could hope a guy his size could do.

With a player like Kobe, there's only so much you can do. One strategy I've noticed and liked is using different looks on him throughout a game to keep him from getting comfortable or in a rhythm against one defender. I think Hill's minutes on Bryant were an effort to figure out if he can be part of the "guard Kobe" team come playoff time. I think he proved he can.

Its not for lack of effort, but Mason just can't guard Kobe. Some of those fouls on RMJ last night were bogus, but Kobe's going to get those calls anyway and I don't think Mason can do anything against Bryant in any substantive way.

One question I just thought of....did Finley guard Kobe at all last night? I don't think he did and I doubt he would have had much success, but I wonder if this is something Pop's saving for the playoffs or has totally ruled out or what.

Other than the obvious ones, I think the real strain Kobe puts on our defense is that you want to guard him with a 3 -- either Bowen or Finley or Udoka, but if you do, then our 2 guard, either Mason, Manu, or Hill, has to guard their 3 -- either Ariza or Walton and those guys are just too big for our 2 guards. That's where the real match up problem comes and that's why I think Pop wants to be able to use a smaller player like Hill against Kobe, so he can keep Finley or whomever on LA's 3. Kobe will get his, and against a team with a dominant scorer, our strategy has always been to try and shut down everyone else, so I think we want to be able to bother Bryant somewhat while keeping someone on Ariza or Walton who can't be totally destroyed by them.

Allanon

03-13-2009, 10:26 AM

How did Mason get called for so many fouls if he played with that much spacing?

Two of his fouls came when Kobe got a screen and Mason clipped Kobe from behind cuz Kobe stopped and got contact on his jumper. Another 2 came when Kobe got past him and he had to reach out and grab him to stop and an easy score. I forget the 5th foul.

Mason's problem is lateral quickness/agility, he's decently quick in a straight line but not very good going left and right. I suspect that's why Mason gives Kobe so much space.

And he doesn't have much hops at all.

If you watch Mason, anytime he drives to the basket, he pretty much goes in a straight line.

I Love Me Some Me

03-13-2009, 10:27 AM

surprisingly ?

Pierce is the shit!:toast

Oh, I know he's a good player....just never knew him as a great defender.

ploto

03-13-2009, 10:31 AM

With the Spurs starting line-up, Mason has to guard Kobe.

mexicanjunior

03-13-2009, 10:37 AM

I liked how Hill stayed in front of Kobe and didn't take the pump fakes. He was just too short to disrupt Kobe's jumper, which is spot on these days. His long arms work very well against players his size and smaller but just aren't effective guarding people 6'5 and over.

Mason is terrible against Kobe, he doesn't stay in front of him and reaches too much, which caused so many fouls. He needs to learn to just play position defense and get his arms straight up. Any type of contest with arms reaching forward or pokes at the ball is an automatic foul.

Bowen just doesn't have the foot speed anymore but I do still like how he positions himself in front of Kobe and works around screens. Kobe drives on him at will these days though.

Really, the best way for this team to defend Kobe is by trapping him at the top and sagging the remaining 3 defenders down low, forcing the role players to hit outside shots. Also, I would have liked to have seen Malik stay on the active roster (instead of Vaughn) and be given a chance to defend Kobe. He has the size and athleticism to at least get a hand in his face and maybe force Kobe to elevate higher on his release.

Extra Stout

03-13-2009, 10:38 AM

This need has been glaring for about 3 seasons. In fact, ever since SJax left the building, the Spurs have had such a need. Yet, they chose to invest in a myriad of older shooters (Finley and Barry) and undersized wings (Udoka).

There was a time, prior to his leaving the Orlando Magic, when Trevor Ariza was available. Mikael Pietrus was avaiable this past summer too. Obviously, the Spurs didn't like either. So now, the need still exists.
After David Robinson retired, the Spurs knew they needed a replacement big. Rasho didn't work out, and neither did anybody else they brought in. Their attempts to mine Europe for big men turned into a fiasco. Nevertheless, they won two more titles, largely because Robert Horry kept stepping up big. Now we're down to convincing ourselves that Matt Bonner is a starting center in the NBA. Drew Gooden is actually a pretty good player if you ignore the whole "defense" thing. He's the best player the Spurs have had up front next to Duncan since D-Rob (and Horry), but so many other glaring holes have opened up since then, that a player who once easily would have been the missing piece is now at best just part of the solution.

After 2005, it was easy for anyone to see that Bruce Bowen at 34 wasn't going to keep playing forever. The Spurs by then already had seen a couple opportunities slip through their fingers -- they threw away a draft pick that could have been Josh Howard so they could chase Jason Kidd (two fewer rings if that had happened), and they let Hedo Turkoglu walk right before he grew a set of testicles. Many fans dreamed of a mythical "long 3" to wait in the wings. Four years have passed, and the closest the Spurs came to filling that hole was Ime Udoka. Now Bruce is finished, and fellow graybeard Michael Finley is his "replacement."

There comes a point of no return.

B-Hath

03-13-2009, 10:45 AM

That's a bad pic of Mason on defense. It looks like he's trying to use "the force" to guard Kobe. Hill & Bowen are very similar on defense. Quick hands, and very good to great lateral movement. Hill is just 15 years younger so he is more effective over the span of a whole game. I'll still take Bruce on Kobe at the end of the game though.
Mason is a good position defender, but doesn't have the quickness to go against someone with Kobe's skills.

SA210

03-13-2009, 11:00 AM

Bruce should be starting. He is the man to gaurd Kobe, but Pop is on one of his power trips again.

JoshO501

03-13-2009, 11:05 AM

id go with bowen to try and slow him down but other than that it really doesnt matter who guards him.

VI_Massive

03-13-2009, 11:19 AM

Bruce should be starting. He is the man to gaurd Kobe, but Pop is on one of his power trips again.

The problem with that is Bowen's presence leaves us with only four players on the offensive end. Its tough to keep up with LA like that.

iilluzioN

03-13-2009, 11:31 AM

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/1233-1/kobe-paul-pierce-22167437.jpg

http://www.nba.com/media/finals2008/garnett_defense_300_080613.jpg

http://worldflavas.com/PaulPierce&KobeBryant.jpg

http://www.meandsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/kobe-bryant-paul-pierce-and-kevin-garnett.jpg

SA210

03-13-2009, 11:31 AM

The problem with that is Bowen's presence leaves us with only four players on the offensive end. Its tough to keep up with LA like that.

Bowen would always be open for a three. I like that. What I don't like is that we are a Defensive team, but our best defender is on the bench, while Kobe gets hot to start the game.

TwinTowers

03-13-2009, 11:41 AM

-Bowen has the size, experience, and defensive talent to guard kobe, but when he's on the floor the lakers defense only has to worry about 4 players.

-Mason the picture says it all... needs to put more effort on the defensive end.

-Hill is too short; despite his long arms he's not able to affect Kobe's shot

VI_Massive

03-13-2009, 11:44 AM

Bowen would always be open for a three. I like that. What I don't like is that we are a Defensive team, but our best defender is on the bench, while Kobe gets hot to start the game.

But I don't know that he hits that three often enough to warrant it. And that's his only offensive contribution. He can't move with the ball or attack the rim or anything. What will happen is that LA won't guard him, they'll leave him open until he absolutely kills them (which may or may not happen). In the meantime, his defender will leave and double Timmy or TP or Manu and inhibit the rest of our offense.

I think Pop is really shying away from playing 5 v 4 on offense against the Lakers.

SA210

03-13-2009, 11:58 AM

But I don't know that he hits that three often enough to warrant it. And that's his only offensive contribution. He can't move with the ball or attack the rim or anything. What will happen is that LA won't guard him, they'll leave him open until he absolutely kills them (which may or may not happen). In the meantime, his defender will leave and double Timmy or TP or Manu and inhibit the rest of our offense.

I think Pop is really shying away from playing 5 v 4 on offense against the Lakers.

Isn't this how it's always been? And we've won 3 championships this way.

200 miles

03-13-2009, 12:02 PM

The Gist could stop Kobe.

Too bad not until next year though.

spurspokesman

03-13-2009, 12:44 PM

They all worked hard. Kobe just hit great shots and thats just how it is with him. But he wont be that hot everytime. Im happy with theyre effort. If A guy makes 100 0f 100 with A hand in his face or A man in front of him I can live with it.

lefty

03-13-2009, 12:56 PM

i'd still want a "crafty" veteran guarding him rather than an inexperienced rookie...

+250 000

lefty

03-13-2009, 12:58 PM

Andy25

03-13-2009, 01:28 PM

Two of his fouls came when Kobe got a screen and Mason clipped Kobe from behind cuz Kobe stopped and got contact on his jumper. Another 2 came when Kobe got past him and he had to reach out and grab him to stop and an easy score. I forget the 5th foul.

Mason's problem is lateral quickness/agility, he's decently quick in a straight line but not very good going left and right. I suspect that's why Mason gives Kobe so much space.

And he doesn't have much hops at all.

If you watch Mason, anytime he drives to the basket, he pretty much goes in a straight line.

Don't worry in the offseason Manu will teach him the Eurostep and Parker will teach him how to finish.:ihit