Kobe = Jordan

[poop]

now is the time for all the noobies/nostalgic delusionites to accept that technically, Kobe = Jordan. period. this is the best scorer in the league by far, he is complete as shit, great passer, never gives up on defense as a guard and BLOCKS SHOTS, does exactly what his team needs at any given time, hits more DAGGER shots/clutch baskets than anyone, is unguardable and can will hismteam to victory better than ANYONE. Boston last year guarded him better than ive seen anyone guard him, and he lost because his team had too many non-black players i key roles while Boston had nothing but big strong athletic guys at every position.

but if they meet again in the Finals LA will RAPE them. i hope the Spurs have enough to beat them and they certainly can, but seriously its time for all these JORDAN = GOD people to accept that Kobe is all that Jordan was.

[Ghazi]

Nah.

[IronMexican]

False. He is the closest thing we've seen though.

[TampaDude]

Kobe sucks...j/k :lol

[poop]

so i see the Jordan = untouchable for all-time infallible GOD thing continues...oh brother

[IronMexican]

You know what this means? Drexler > both

[Sense]

Take it from Iron..
he's a Laker fan...

Saying that... he must be a Kobe fan to be a fan of the Lakers....I mean c'mon that's all the Lakers are...


But he isn't Jordan...

He should feel happy that people would think he's the closest thing to him

[Ghazi]

6 rings faggots

[IronMexican]

Lol, I get called a Kobe hater on Laker forums.

[Laker-fan-in-SanAnto]

He's almost there.

[pauls931]

If Jordan = kobe, Pippen would have got pissed and left before MJ retired.

[Laker-fan-in-SanAnto]

Imagine he can even surpassed him and build his own legacy. He's barely 30, at this age MJ was just starting to win championships. Kobe certaintly has the team to win championships in the next couple of years.

[pauls931]

Imagine he can even surpassed him and build his own legacy. He's barely 30, at this age MJ was just starting to win championships. Kobe certaintly has the team to win championships in the next couple of years.

Jordan was 27 when he got his first title.

[aka_USAPA]

now is the time for all the noobies/nostalgic delusionites to accept that technically, Kobe = Jordan. period. this is the best scorer in the league by far, he is complete as shit, great passer, never gives up on defense as a guard and BLOCKS SHOTS, does exactly what his team needs at any given time, hits more DAGGER shots/clutch baskets than anyone, is unguardable and can will hismteam to victory better than ANYONE. Boston last year guarded him better than ive seen anyone guard him, and he lost because his team had too many non-black players i key roles while Boston had nothing but big strong athletic guys at every position.

but if they meet again in the Finals LA will RAPE them. i hope the Spurs have enough to beat them and they certainly can, but seriously its time for all these JORDAN = GOD people to accept that Kobe is all that Jordan was.

I agree with pretty much most of what you said except for the racial part. :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[DeadlyDynasty]

I agree with pretty much most of what you said except for the racial part. :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

i thought Jimmy the Greek was dead:wow

[Donkeybong]

he's getting very close. But i think next year he will be just as good. His post game has improved immensely in the past couple of years. Just needs to work on better shot selection. Sometimes he gets into "81 point kobe mode" and you'll see him chuck a shot from the same spot three posessions in a row with a man in his face, albeit, not nearly as frequently as he used to. Still good to see some people appreciate him as a player, because when he is gone, a lot of people will have wished they spent less time criticizing and more time marveling.

[dallaskd]

I will wait until he wins a title with out shaq.

[Findog]

"Better learn not to talk to me. You shake the tree, a leopard's gonna fall out."

- Kobe Bryant

[scanry]

Imagine he can even surpassed him and build his own legacy. He's barely 30, at this age MJ was just starting to win championships. Kobe certaintly has the team to win championships in the next couple of years.

Kobe has a lot of mileage in that body. He's played over 12 seasons and i don't think he can play as well as Jordan did in that 2 three-peat.

Jordan even took 2 years off and that really helped the Bulls win the second three-peat.

However if Bynum continues to progress, it's going to be his team. :wow

[scanry]

he's getting very close. But i think next year he will be just as good. His post game has improved immensely in the past couple of years. Just needs to work on better shot selection. Sometimes he gets into "81 point kobe mode" and you'll see him chuck a shot from the same spot three posessions in a row with a man in his face, albeit, not nearly as frequently as he used to. Still good to see some people appreciate him as a player, because when he is gone, a lot of people will have wished they spent less time criticizing and more time marveling.

Why the fuck would we rival fans marvel & hug Kobe's nuts? :rolleyes

We Spurs fans are privileged enough to have a player of our own who's achieved more than Kobe & more importantly meant to the team more than any player that i can think of.

[Avitus1]

Imagine he can even surpassed him and build his own legacy. He's barely 30, at this age MJ was just starting to win championships. Kobe certaintly has the team to win championships in the next couple of years.

If Championships is the determining factor Robert Horry is better then both of them.

[peskypesky]

not even close

[gaKNOW!blee]

People do some fucking research and compare some fucking numbers and acheivements before you start spewing bullshit.

Kobe is so amazing its not even funny, I HATE when the Spurs play the Lakers because the guy is flatout one of the greatest players ever. But MJ is on a whole nother level, a player would have to do A LOT to be compared with him.

I commend Lakers fans who are realistic about this. Because Many aren't.

[TheNextGen]

not close, but the closet thing to him.

[aka_USAPA]

It would take at least 3 more rings, about 3 more MVPs (regular season and Finals), a couple of DPOYs for Kobe's career be compared to MJ's. Kobe has a great opportunity and the Lakers are poised for a long run barring injuries. In terms of skills though, I think Kobe is way up there and there are aspects of his game that are better than MJ (and vice-versa).

[wireonfire]

He is an imposter to me.

[Medvedenko]

Kobe=Jordan.....don't get fooled by team accomplishments.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Kobe=Jordan.....don't get fooled by team accomplishments.


lol then we'll just go by individual accomplishments.

[Medvedenko]

lol then we'll just go by individual accomplishments.

I go by talent. You ask the vets, coaches, players, gm's, etc, etc...they all say this. Discussing team accomplishments, points per game, blah, blah blah is for fools that can be scrutinized and comparing eras is even worse. I go by talent and KOBE=Jordan.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Great so they can both dunk a ball and jump really high, they are equal as basketball players.

[coachmac87]

While Kobe may not be as good as MJ...There is NO DOUBT that his "game" is the closest thing to Jordan.

Kobe has the exact same skill set as MJ except Michael made his teammates ALOT better than Kobe.

[monosylab1k]

I go by talent.

Oh, well in that case Rasheed Wallace > Tim Duncan.

[Medvedenko]

You guys miss my point, but that's ok, it figures par for the course on this forum.
No worries, go lakers and go spurs blahahahahalbhbaahbahb.....

[monosylab1k]

You guys miss my point

No we don't. We get your point completely. We just think your point is fucking retarded.







Which it is.

[monosylab1k]

Vince Carter = Michael Jordan > Kobe

I go by talent.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Yeah I know what you're saying, it's just you're wrong.

[gaKNOW!blee]

JR Smith > Rip Hamilton

Josh Smith > Paul Pierce


This game is fun.

[Medvedenko]

Oops...I forgot guys.....when guys like Pop compares MJ to Kobe he always forgets to add...oh but MJ has 6 rings and bs like that.

I go by talent, shooting form, moves, poise, leadership, defense, passion and overall "he's got it"...you dudes can use "stats" as your basis. They are secondary to me as it's completely arbitrary when you start using "numbers" to make a point of something so analagous.

[lefty]

Whuuuuuuuuuut?

MJ was miles ahead of Kobe

[gaKNOW!blee]

Shooting form and moves??

I guess Mike Miller and Jason Williams are better than MJ.....

You don't play the game to look like a fucking pretty boy, you play to win and dominate the opponent, something MJ has done a lot more.

You wanna go by defense? cool....MJ averages more blocks and steals and was widely considered one of the best on ball defenders WHILE guarding the other teams best perimeter player.

[Lars]

Sorry, even Drexler is still superior to Kobe.

[Medvedenko]

Whuuuuuuuuuut?

MJ was miles ahead of Kobe

How about...fuck miles, not even on the same planet. MJ he always took over and never lost close games. He never attacked his teammates in the press and was a consumate professional who didn't take a few years off to play baseball and bail on his team due to gambling and being a complete retard. On a player level, MJ=Kobe...on a personal level they're about as even as well......

[Medvedenko]

Shooting form and moves??

I guess Mike Miller and Jason Williams are better than MJ.....

You don't play the game to look like a fucking pretty boy, you play to win and dominate the opponent, something MJ has done a lot more.

You wanna go by defense? cool....MJ averages more blocks and steals and was widely considered one of the best on ball defenders WHILE guarding the other teams best perimeter player.

I'm not quite sure why I'm arguing..well I'll bite. So you use the same logic I did....how people considered these people are the NBA elite, coaches, players, etc. So when these so called NBA brass make the comparisons to Kobe being as good or even better in some aspects than the holy one, it doesn't work that way. Sure...keep it up.

Also, do I mean to spell it out....I'm sure guys have better shooting forms, and maybe even better moves, it's context and the combination of my evaluation that makes you the goat in my eye's.

[gaKNOW!blee]

orrr maybe youre just a kobe homer.

[Medvedenko]

orrr maybe youre just a kobe homer.

Great statement of the obvious.

[MiamiHeat]

Kobe got embarrassed out of the NBA Finals

lose in 6 games and lose by 36 points in AN ELIMINATION GAME!@! LMAOOOOOOO

Kobe shot 40% in the FINALS hahahahaha

Kobe is 0-2 as #1 option in the Finals hahahaha

get out of here.

Kobe isn't even better than Magic or Bird yet, much less MJ.

[aka_USAPA]

Sorry, even Drexler is still superior to Kobe.

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:l ol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[monosylab1k]

poise

Nothing says "I have poise" like quitting on your team in the 2nd half of a game 7.

[SpursPreacher]

Jordan never lost a finals so is that a start ?

[sonic21]

he's close to jordan level, but imo
jordan's D > kobe's D ( not by much though)

[Rogue]

now is the time for all the noobies/nostalgic delusionites to accept that technically, Kobe = Jordan. period. this is the best scorer in the league by far, he is complete as shit, great passer, never gives up on defense as a guard and BLOCKS SHOTS, does exactly what his team needs at any given time, hits more DAGGER shots/clutch baskets than anyone, is unguardable and can will hismteam to victory better than ANYONE. Boston last year guarded him better than ive seen anyone guard him, and he lost because his team had too many non-black players i key roles while Boston had nothing but big strong athletic guys at every position.

but if they meet again in the Finals LA will RAPE them. i hope the Spurs have enough to beat them and they certainly can, but seriously its time for all these JORDAN = GOD people to accept that Kobe is all that Jordan was.
don't say LA, kobe will rape them as he did on a girl several years ago.

[BeeGee]

Kobe's not equivalent to MJ. Stop that. It's damn near impossible for any player in any sport to be what MJ was.

Kobe reminds many of MJ in a lot of ways, and I think he's become a player in the same category as MJ skills-wise, but accomplishments and impact on the game - it's not possible for him to even sniff MJ.

The shit is all timing, man. There can never be another MJ because there will never be another player that transcended the game like he did. There will never be another player that will be exalted and put on such a high pedestal as MJ was.

I'll argue all day with the clowns (mostly Bulls/MJ fans) that have the nerve to deny the fact that Kobe's game is highly reminiscent of Mikes.... but there's really no such thing as "=MJ"

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

All people have to do is pull up Jordan's stats from just ONE season, to shut these Kobe homers up. :lol
And to the person saying Kobe's game in the post has improved, Kobe's not even CLOSE to having Jordan's post game. It's nonexistent, by comparison.


i can't believe they have such a short term memory, the performance during last year's finals pretty much put the Kobe /Jordan comparisons to rest for the time being. Laker fans are so insecure.

[Muser]

Jesus christ, more of these threads?

You can't compare them. They had different players playing against them, different rules.

[The Franchise]

Why is this stupid fucking thread still open?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Just compare their individual and team performances in NBA Finals. Says it all.

[stretch]

i have a hard time believing that a bunch of regular season wins and performances is what puts him equal to Jordan.

[stretch]

All people have to do is pull up Jordan's stats from just ONE season, to shut these Kobe homers up.

To be somewhat fair, Jordan wouldn't average some of those same stats in today's game. Defense and athleticism in this era is FAR superior than it was in the 80s. It was a lot easier to rack up 25-30 ppg in the 80's as opposed today. I'd say 25-30 ppg today is easily 28-35 in the 80's.

80's was an era of much more fast paced basketball, which led to more posessions, less energy for defense, more shots, more rebounds, more chances to get hot, pretty much more stats all across the board. For players like Lebron and Kobe to be averaging 30+ ppg in today's era, is absoutely astounding.

That said, Jordan is still better than Kobe. Better finisher, better interior player, more agressive, better leader.

Kobe is a better 3pt shooter, and thats about it.

[scanry]

To be somewhat fair, Jordan wouldn't average some of those same stats in today's game. Defense and athleticism in this era is FAR superior than it was in the 80s. It was a lot easier to rack up 25-30 ppg in the 80's as opposed today. I'd say 25-30 ppg today is easily 28-35 in the 80's.

80's was an era of much more fast paced basketball, which led to more posessions, less energy for defense, more shots, more rebounds, more chances to get hot, pretty much more stats all across the board. For players like Lebron and Kobe to be averaging 30+ ppg in today's era, is absoutely astounding.

That said, Jordan is still better than Kobe. Better finisher, better interior player, more agressive, better leader.

Kobe is a better 3pt shooter, and thats about it.

Guy, I think you got it backwards...

The 80's & the 90's were the times when defenders could hack you all over the court. The defense was much better in those days (eg. Pistons, Knicks, Bulls, Rockets and even San Antonio).

[stretch]

medvedenko failed on an epic level as usual

fucking idiot

[stretch]

Guy, I think you got it backwards...

The 80's & the 90's were the times when defenders could hack you all over the court. The defense was much better in those days (eg. Pistons, Knicks, Bulls, Rockets and even San Antonio).

Wrong. Hacking does not = defense.

Just watch. There is nothing but a shit storm of wide open shots due to lack of effort on defense, and terrible rebounding ethic. All everyone was interested in doing was taking off running to get the next shot off. Just watch the Suns of the past few years. They played exactly the way 80s teams played... lots of possessions, lots of numbers across the board, which can be fun to watch, but ultimately will never work against teams who base their play on defense, rebounding, and offensive efficiency. That's why ever since the Bad Boy Pistons (20 years now), there has never been a pure run-and-gun team that won a title. The closest was MJ's Bulls, but they not only had a high powered offense, but also had a suffocating defense and rebound game. But look at all the other teams... Rockets, Spurs, Lakers, Pistons, Heat, Celtics... they were all defense/rebound first teams.

[LakeShow]

Talent wise they can be considered equal. Accomplishment wise Jordan is way ahead of Kobe.

MJ had his failed attempts to win a title a few years trying to get past the Pistons. Much like what Kobe has experienced with the Suns and Celtics.

Interesting quote,

Dr. Julius says that Michael Jordan had a key moment when he came to believe in team chemistry. In the 1991 NBA Finals, there was a moment when Jordan was entirely dominating the ball. According to Julius, Phil Jackson called a timeout to tell him to pass it around. Jordan ignored him. Jackson called another timeout, and said that he would bench Jordan if he didn't start trusting his teammates. Jordan did start to trust his teammates, and the Bulls won six titles.

Looks like they had the same issues except Michael listened and Kobe pouted against Phoenix.

That said, When it's all said and done, Kobe Bryant will be considered the GOAT! ;)

[gaKNOW!blee]

Talent wise they can be considered equal. Accomplishment wise Jordan is way ahead of Kobe.

MJ had his failed attempts to win a title a few years trying to get past the Pistons. Much like what Kobe has experienced with the Suns and Celtics.

Interesting quote,

Dr. Julius says that Michael Jordan had a key moment when he came to believe in team chemistry. In the 1991 NBA Finals, there was a moment when Jordan was entirely dominating the ball. According to Julius, Phil Jackson called a timeout to tell him to pass it around. Jordan ignored him. Jackson called another timeout, and said that he would bench Jordan if he didn't start trusting his teammates. Jordan did start to trust his teammates, and the Bulls won six titles.

Looks like they had the same issues except Michael listened and Kobe pouted against Phoenix.

That said, When it's all said and done, Kobe Bryant will be considered the GOAT! ;)

MJ never lost in the finals, and his stats dwarf Kobe's.

Kobe has a lot of ground to make up with a lot of miles on him.

[LakeShow]

MJ never lost in the finals, and his stats dwarf Kobe's.

Kobe has a lot of ground to make up with a lot of miles on him.

This is true.

[stretch]

That said, When it's all said and done, Lebron James or Michael Jordan still will be considered the GOAT! ;)

fixed.

[JoeTait75]

I wonder why it's so important for some people that Kobe be considered on the level of Michael Jordan.

[stretch]

I wonder why it's so important for some people that Kobe be considered on the level of Michael Jordan.

i dunno but it sure is fun to mess with them

[sook]

BRhornet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MJ + Kobe

[Rummpd]

I cannot recall Jordan ever being relatively shut down in a finals and Kobe has had that happen 2x in a row. Kobe is fabulous but when he wins 6 titles, or even a couple without Shaq the we can really begin to give full consideration to the so far woefully idea that historicaly he is on the same plane as Jordan.

[Agloco]

now is the time for all the noobies/nostalgic delusionites to accept that technically, Kobe = Jordan. period. this is the best scorer in the league by far, he is complete as shit, great passer, never gives up on defense as a guard and BLOCKS SHOTS, does exactly what his team needs at any given time, hits more DAGGER shots/clutch baskets than anyone, is unguardable and can will hismteam to victory better than ANYONE. Boston last year guarded him better than ive seen anyone guard him, and he lost because his team had too many non-black players i key roles while Boston had nothing but big strong athletic guys at every position.

but if they meet again in the Finals LA will RAPE them. i hope the Spurs have enough to beat them and they certainly can, but seriously its time for all these JORDAN = GOD people to accept that Kobe is all that Jordan was.

They say sniffing paint does bad things to your mind......

[SpursDynasty]

MJ had 6 rings by the time he played 12 full seasons.

Kobe has 3 after 12 seasons.

Basketball is a team sport and the measure of success is championships, not making clutch shots against junk teams.

[Agloco]

Oops...I forgot guys.....when guys like Pop compares MJ to Kobe he always forgets to add...oh but MJ has 6 rings and bs like that.

I go by talent, shooting form, moves, poise, leadership, defense, passion and overall "he's got it"...you dudes can use "stats" as your basis. They are secondary to me as it's completely arbitrary when you start using "numbers" to make a point of something so analagous.

Soooo.... production counts for nothing in your book?

I can start the comparisons between Pops Mensah-Bonsu and Rodman again eh?

[Medvedenko]

Blahabalha....6 rings...blahalahalal.....oh gives a shit. That's not what I'm arguing....
I'm going by skills, talent, et al. Stretch actually had a good point...once in his posting life, but a good post nevertheless. Everytime you bring up Jordan's #'s I can bring up Wilt's..it doesn't matter. We are all witnessing greatness that is Kobe...soak it up friends.

[Medvedenko]

Soooo.... production counts for nothing in your book?

I can start the comparisons between Pops Mensah-Bonsu and Rodman again eh?

It depends on what you're arguing.

[DrHouse]

Kobe is the closest thing to MJ the league has seen since his retirement and likely the closest thing we will see for some time.

He truly is an incredible once in a generation type of player. He transcends the game in a way that really nobody outside of Tim Duncan does in the NBA.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Lol, I get called a Kobe hater on Laker forums.

My guess there is that unless you're a Kobe apologist you get called a Kobe hater on LA boards.....similar to Steve Nash and Suns message boards.

[Trimble87]

Kobe will be Jordan when he leads the Lakers to another threepeat... and even if he does hes still not Jordan.

Fact: Shaq is a much much much better two man then Pippen. In fact he isnt even a two man. he was the leader of the 3peat lakers teams.

Fact: The late 80's to early 90s pitted Jordan against some of the fiercest competition in the history of the NBA. Going up against the Hakeems, Birds, Malones, Barkleys, Paytons, Stocktons, Robinsons etc etc etc of the world. The competition was vastly superior to what we have now, and if he had not retired for two years the bulls would have won 8 titles in a row.

Kobe is a great player, one of the all time greats. But comparing him to jordan is just wrong.

A good stat line != Jordan.

[samikeyp]

Never.

There will never, ever be another Jordan. That is not a bad thing though.

IMO, if he continues on his path, there will never be another Kobe either.

[samikeyp]

Kobe is the closest thing to MJ the league has seen since his retirement and likely the closest thing we will see for some time.

He truly is an incredible once in a generation type of player. He transcends the game in a way that really nobody outside of Tim Duncan does in the NBA.

agreed.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Wade is a lot more like Jordan than Kobe......the way they Wade plays is more Jordan-esk, plus he's actually won a finals MVP and a championship as the best player on his team.

[Cry Havoc]

Stupid thread is stupid. I've already destroyed Kobe homers a number of times on this board. No desire to do it again.

[stretch]

Wade is a lot more like Jordan than Kobe......the way they Wade plays is more Jordan-esk, plus he's actually won a finals MVP and a championship as the best player on his team.

ive always agreed that wade plays much more like jordan than kobe. constantly agressive and fearless. doesnt settle much for jumpers.

[sook]

Wade is a lot more like Jordan than Kobe......the way they Wade plays is more Jordan-esk, plus he's actually won a finals MVP and a championship as the best player on his team.

Wade is the ultimate team player. When he scores a lot and Kobe scores a lot there is a big difference. Wade plays within the offense and his teammates have a better chance to get involved. Maybe its just me but he doesn't look like a ballhog like Kobe did in 05-06. Don't get me wrong, that year was legendary for Kobe but it looked like he was just gonna take as many shots he wanted every game

[stretch]

Fact: The late 80's to early 90s pitted Jordan against some of the fiercest competition in the history of the NBA. Going up against the Hakeems, Birds, Malones, Barkleys, Paytons, Stocktons, Robinsons etc etc etc of the world. The competition was vastly superior to what we have now, and if he had not retired for two years the bulls would have won 8 titles in a row.

Come on... lets not kid ourselves... competition today is damn good, arguably better than it was back then. There is/has been Lebron, Wade, Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, Garnett, Nash, Paul, Pierce, Howard, Iverson, Williams, Parker, Ginobili, etc...

The 80's is soooo overrated, simply due to nostalgia. Today's league is just as competitive, if not more than it was in the 80s. The only difference is that more teams actually play defense these days, and that there was more heated rivalries back then because they were allowed to get away with shit they cant get away with today. Imagine if you could clothesline a player the way Kurt Rambis got hit, and get away with nothing more than a personal foul? Could you imagine how heated and crazy rivalries like Lakers/Kings, Lakers/Spurs, Spurs/Mavs, Suns/Lakers, Mavs/Suns, Cavs/Wizards, Cavs/Pistons, Pistons/Heat, etc... could have been?

Fact is, we have 3 players that could all possibly go down among the 5 best players in NBA history (Lebron, Kobe, Wade), arguably the most dominant center ever (Shaq), the best PF ever (Duncan), and other GREAT players like Dirk, Nash, and CP3, who could go down as top 5, maybe top 3 all-time at their positions, surpassing many 80s players, yet the competition in the 80s greatly surpasses today's era??? GTFO.

[ChickHearnMic]

Trying to get that Kobe Number,One Over Jordan

http://s5.tinypic.com/2pyvl05_th.jpg

[manufor3]

mj is the greatest player in the history of the nba.
1. mj
2. wilt
3. the other mj
4. kobe
5. tim
6. larry legend

[Spursfan092120]

http://www.readthesmiths.com/articles/Images/Humor/Fail/2043-fail-camera.jpg

[samikeyp]

Come on... lets not kid ourselves... competition today is damn good, arguably better than it was back then. There is/has been Lebron, Wade, Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, Garnett, Nash, Paul, Pierce, Howard, Iverson, Williams, Parker, Ginobili, etc...

The 80's is soooo overrated, simply due to nostalgia. Today's league is just as competitive, if not more than it was in the 80s. The only difference is that more teams actually play defense these days, and that there was more heated rivalries back then because they were allowed to get away with shit they cant get away with today. Imagine if you could clothesline a player the way Kurt Rambis got hit, and get away with nothing more than a personal foul? Could you imagine how heated and crazy rivalries like Lakers/Kings, Lakers/Spurs, Spurs/Mavs, Suns/Lakers, Mavs/Suns, Cavs/Wizards, Cavs/Pistons, Pistons/Heat, etc... could have been?

Fact is, we have 3 players that could all possibly go down among the 5 best players in NBA history (Lebron, Kobe, Wade), arguably the most dominant center ever (Shaq), the best PF ever (Duncan), and other GREAT players like Dirk, Nash, and CP3, who could go down as top 5, maybe top 3 all-time at their positions, surpassing many 80s players, yet the competition in the 80s greatly surpasses today's era??? GTFO.

While there is a bit of nostalgia for the NBA in the 80's, it was anything but overrated. As someone who has seen both eras, I can tell you that there was much better team basketball played back then. I am not knocking today's NBA but the 80's were anything but overrated. Two different eras really. To say that the 80's NBA was the be all end all of NBA basketball would be foolish, to dismiss the quality as simply nostalgia would be equally foolish.

[Spursfan092120]

While there is a bit of nostalgia for the NBA in the 80's, it was anything but overrated. As someone who has seen both eras, I can tell you that there was much better team basketball played back then. I am not knocking today's NBA but the 80's were anything but overrated. Two different eras really. To say that the 80's NBA was the be all end all of NBA basketball would be foolish, to dismiss the quality as simply nostalgia would be equally foolish.
Not to mention that in today's basketball, the 2 guard is helped out a lot with the rules. The 2 guard is almost baby fed nowadays. Back then, the big man was the one who was tended to. It was harder to be a talented 2 guard back then than it is today.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

mj is the greatest player in the history of the nba.
1. mj
2. wilt
3. the other mj
4. kobe
5. tim
6. larry legend

That might be the dumbest list ever. How the hell is Kobe ahead of Tim Duncan, and how the hell is Shaq's sidekick (Kobe) on the list when Shaq isn't on it?

[stretch]

While there is a bit of nostalgia for the NBA in the 80's, it was anything but overrated. As someone who has seen both eras, I can tell you that there was much better team basketball played back then. I am not knocking today's NBA but the 80's were anything but overrated. Two different eras really. To say that the 80's NBA was the be all end all of NBA basketball would be foolish, to dismiss the quality as simply nostalgia would be equally foolish.

When I say overrated, I mean it gets overrated by idiots like the person whom I was replying to, in saying that today's competition isnt even close to 80s competition, when its as far from the truth as it gets.

[scanry]

That might be the dumbest list ever. How the hell is Kobe ahead of Tim Duncan, and how the hell is Shaq's sidekick (Kobe) on the list when Shaq isn't on it?

Some Spurs fans don't think the NBA existed before the 80's.

Jerry West, Bill Russell & Kareem for some reason always seem to get lost in translation.

BTW Larry Legend is overrated...:wow

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Some Spurs fans don't think the NBA existed before the 80's.

Jerry West, Bill Russell & Kareem for some reason always seem to get lost in translation.

BTW Larry Legend is overrated...:wow

Or Oscar Robertson and Elgin Baylor

[dirk4mvp]

Some Spurs fans don't think the NBA existed before the 80's.

Jerry West, Bill Russell & Kareem for some reason always seem to get lost in translation.

BTW Larry Legend is overrated...:wow


If anybody's overrated, it's Bill Russell.

[sook]

If anybody's overrated, it's Bill Russell.

have to agree with you there

[scanry]

If anybody's overrated, it's Bill Russell.

So a 5 time NBA MVP is overrated? He probably would've won atleast 8-11 Finals MVP's.

How the fuck is he overrated???

[dirk4mvp]

Congrats to him and his rec league achievements.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Congrats to him and his rec league achievements.

That's the best way to sum it up. Russell played in like an 8 team league with white guys 5 inches shorter than him at center, anything less than the dominating career he had would have been a disappointment.

[Ghazi]

Wade is a lot more like Jordan than Kobe......the way they Wade plays is more Jordan-esk, plus he's actually won a finals MVP and a championship as the best player on his team.


No he hasn't. Quit being dumb. I HATE YOU!!11

[Laker-fan-in-SanAnto]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAGK131~Derek-Fisher-04-Game-Winning-Shot-Photofile-Posters.jpg

BELIEVE!!!!!!!

[Thomas82]

now is the time for all the noobies/nostalgic delusionites to accept that technically, Kobe = Jordan. period. this is the best scorer in the league by far, he is complete as shit, great passer, never gives up on defense as a guard and BLOCKS SHOTS, does exactly what his team needs at any given time, hits more DAGGER shots/clutch baskets than anyone, is unguardable and can will hismteam to victory better than ANYONE. Boston last year guarded him better than ive seen anyone guard him, and he lost because his team had too many non-black players i key roles while Boston had nothing but big strong athletic guys at every position.

but if they meet again in the Finals LA will RAPE them. i hope the Spurs have enough to beat them and they certainly can, but seriously its time for all these JORDAN = GOD people to accept that Kobe is all that Jordan was.

Hell naw, bruh!!

[Laker-fan-in-SanAnto]

Wade is a lot more like Jordan than Kobe......the way they Wade plays is more Jordan-esk, plus he's actually won a finals MVP and a championship as the best player on his team.


WOW!!!! Wade is like MJ because he has won one championship and one finals MVP. Are you serious!!!!!!! Kobe could easily have taken an MVP in the Three-peat team. They gave those to Shaq.

[gaKNOW!blee]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAGK131~Derek-Fisher-04-Game-Winning-Shot-Photofile-Posters.jpg

BELIEVE!!!!!!!

http://blog.rabbijason.com/pistons2.jpg

[gaKNOW!blee]

WOW!!!! Wade is like MJ because he has won one championship and one finals MVP. Are you serious!!!!!!! Kobe could easily have taken an MVP in the Three-peat team. They gave those to Shaq.


lol he's tried to do that twice....

[djohn2oo8]

MJ won six titles with shitty ass players around him, Kobe won 3 only because of shaq....so therefore MJ is better

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

http://blog.rabbijason.com/pistons2.jpg

:lol

[scanry]

http://blog.rabbijason.com/pistons2.jpg

That's a really nice picture.

Pistons are fucking dumb to trade away Billups...

[LakeShow]

MJ won six titles with shitty ass players around him, Kobe won 3 only because of shaq....so therefore MJ is better

If you're going to discount Kobe's accomplishment because of Shaq (which is ridiculous in itself. Shaq doesn't win those titles without Kobe) lets look at MJ with shitty ass players as you say and when he won a title. It took him 7 years in the league before he won his first title. Kobe is presently in his 5th season leading the lakers. I'm just saying...

[gaKNOW!blee]

If you're going to discount Kobe's accomplishment because of Shaq (which is ridiculous in itself. Shaq doesn't win those titles without Kobe) lets look at MJ with shitty ass players as you say and when he won a title. It took him 7 years in the league before he won his first title. Kobe is presently in his 5th season leading the lakers. I'm just saying...


Atleast shaq proved he can win with another all star.

[LakeShow]

Atleast shaq proved he can win with another all star.

Kobe has a good chance to prove that as well. Let's face it, Shaq had another superstar with him, not just another All Star.

[scanry]

Atleast shaq proved he can win with another all star.

Guy, D-Wade is arguably the best player in the game today....

Let's just say that without D-Wade, the Mavs would've swept the Heat.

[angelbelow]

now is the time for all the noobies/nostalgic delusionites to accept that technically, Kobe = Jordan. period. this is the best scorer in the league by far, he is complete as shit, great passer, never gives up on defense as a guard and BLOCKS SHOTS, does exactly what his team needs at any given time, hits more DAGGER shots/clutch baskets than anyone, is unguardable and can will hismteam to victory better than ANYONE. Boston last year guarded him better than ive seen anyone guard him, and he lost because his team had too many non-black players i key roles while Boston had nothing but big strong athletic guys at every position.

you have to say it, thats damn good reasoning.

[Spursdaone]

As much as I dislike Kobe, I definitely think he is very close to Jordan. I would trade Duncan and Parker for Kobe anytime.

[monosylab1k]

I still think it's funny that Medvedenko listed "poise" as one of Kobe's qualities, forgetting how he sat & pouted and quit on his team in game 7 against the Suns in 2006.

[angelbelow]

jordan is probably why i got into basketball in the first place. hes by far my favorite player and from time to time i watch his videos, read his quotes for inspiration or motivation. However im not silly enough to engage in a long battles over the internet so i'll just let these videos do the talking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xJJNUkrdyQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWvxijHNWB4

[LakeShow]

Jordan was a great player, no doubt but when he came into the league he hogged the ball more than Kobe. He did not win until Phil Jackson toned down his game. He befriended all of the tough players in the league so they would take it easy on him. Kobe doesn't give a fuck. Bring it!

I have to say although I recognize Jordan's game as the best, he and the Bulls were never one of my favorites.

Lakers fans are different than a lot of WC teams fans. If we don't win, we pull for the Western Conference no matter who's playing. So all of those years that the Bulls won, I was pulling for the other team and despised them. :whine

[Medvedenko]

Jordan was a great player, no doubt but when he came into the league he hogged the ball more than Kobe. He did not win until Phil Jackson toned down his game. He befriended all of the tough players in the league so they would take it easy on him. Kobe doesn't give a fuck. Bring it!

I have to say although I recognize Jordan's game as the best, he and the Bulls were never one of my favorites.

Lakers fans are different than a lot of WC teams fans. If we don't win, we pull for the Western Conference no matter who's playing. So all of those years that the Bulls won, I was pulling for the other team and despised them. :whine

Yup I agree....

Oh one last point. I love the comparison between MJ's hey day and all of the great players he played against when he won those titles. All of the great big men Hakeem, Ewing, Drob, Shaq, Kemp, Brad D from cleveland etc, Zo, Barkley and Malone....not one of those guys ever guarded MJ or were guarded by MJ and MJ's teams still percevered. Maybe we should annoint Luc Longley, Bill Wenington, and Rodman as the real MVPs..............because when it comes down to talent and level of play....show the me the great 2 guards and 3 SF's that were awesome during his reign......yup, I'll give you Drexler....John Starks, Dumars ?, Mullin, Hornacek, Craig Ehlo.....yup.

[peskypesky]

not close, but the closet thing to him.

well said

[monosylab1k]

Yup I agree....

Oh one last point. I love the comparison between MJ's hey day and all of the great players he played against when he won those titles. All of the great big men Hakeem, Ewing, Drob, Shaq, Kemp, Brad D from cleveland etc, Zo, Barkley and Malone....not one of those guys ever guarded MJ or were guarded by MJ and MJ's teams still percevered. Maybe we should annoint Luc Longley, Bill Wenington, and Rodman as the real MVPs..............because when it comes down to talent and level of play....show the me the great 2 guards and 3 SF's that were awesome during his reign......yup, I'll give you Drexler....John Starks, Dumars ?, Mullin, Hornacek, Craig Ehlo.....yup.

how poised was kobe in this game?

http://www.nba.com/games/20060506/LALPHX/recap.html


But in a puzzling disappearing act, Bryant deferred to his teammates in the second half Saturday, taking just three shots and scoring one point on a technical free throw.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-060507


Strangely, though, Bryant's will to keep shooting didn't last much longer, bringing a muted close to his prolific season. The Ocho attempted just three shots in the second half after ringing up 23 points in the first, in what looked suspiciously like a surrender.

:lmao

[angelbelow]

Jordan was a great player, no doubt but when he came into the league he hogged the ball more than Kobe. He did not win until Phil Jackson toned down his game. He befriended all of the tough players in the league so they would take it easy on him. Kobe doesn't give a fuck. Bring it!

I have to say although I recognize Jordan's game as the best, he and the Bulls were never one of my favorites.

Lakers fans are different than a lot of WC teams fans. If we don't win, we pull for the Western Conference no matter who's playing. So all of those years that the Bulls won, I was pulling for the other team and despised them. :whine

really? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xJJNUkrdyQ

[hitmanyr2k]

Yup I agree....

Oh one last point. I love the comparison between MJ's hey day and all of the great players he played against when he won those titles. All of the great big men Hakeem, Ewing, Drob, Shaq, Kemp, Brad D from cleveland etc, Zo, Barkley and Malone....not one of those guys ever guarded MJ or were guarded by MJ and MJ's teams still percevered. Maybe we should annoint Luc Longley, Bill Wenington, and Rodman as the real MVPs..............because when it comes down to talent and level of play....show the me the great 2 guards and 3 SF's that were awesome during his reign......yup, I'll give you Drexler....John Starks, Dumars ?, Mullin, Hornacek, Craig Ehlo.....yup.

And when the Lakers were winning titles who were the "great" 2 guards Kobe was facing in the playoffs? Doug Christie? 6'3 midget Antonio Daniels on the Spurs? Cuttino Mobley? When did Kobe face ONE elite 2 guard in the playoffs during those title runs? He didn't because they were all battling it out in the Eastern Conference. T-Mac, Vince, Ray Allen, Iverson, and Paul Pierce. Kobe not only played non-all star guards in the West playoffs he had Shaq demanding the defensive attention which allowed him to go one on one against those bums.

Kobe had a cakewalk in the West playoffs until he hit the Finals where the only true competition he faced was an over the hill Reggie Miller and Iverson who was guarded mostly by Tyronn Lue and Fisher.

[John_C]

Lol, Jordan won all his accolades when defense was so tight that people will hold on to you, tug at your shirt, hand check and knee you frequently. The hard fouls then are flagrant fouls now, the defensive bad boys then are now non existent. The game has given so much leeway to offense that too many players appear to be so great. Put Kobe in Jordan's era and let us see him do what MJ did.

[mavs>spurs2]

how poised was kobe in this game?

http://www.nba.com/games/20060506/LALPHX/recap.html



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-060507



:lmao

These two links are pretty much case closed

[BeeGee]

Lol, Jordan won all his accolades when defense was so tight that people will hold on to you, tug at your shirt, hand check and knee you frequently. The hard fouls then are flagrant fouls now, the defensive bad boys then are now non existent. The game has given so much leeway to offense that too many players appear to be so great. Put Kobe in Jordan's era and let us see him do what MJ did.

I can tell you must be a young piece of pussy. The reason the Jordan Rules were developed was because nobody could breathe on his ass or he got two free throws. The Pistons were like "fuckit, when we hit him, we're gonna make it count, cuz the muthafucka is goin' to the line anyways...so make his ass pay to get there" Get it?

Anybody that knows even a little bit about Jordan's career knows that you couldn't even look at him too hard or he shot two. And he got away with more crab dribbles (lmao) and physicality than most players. Ask Bryon Russell who, who got pushed halfway back to Long Beach State so MJ could hit one of the coldest daggers in league history.

Some of you cats have it so backwards that it's a fuckin joke. The Pistons are the exception to the rule. They didn't play that panzie shit with MJ, but if you think that's how the league was back in the day, you muhfuggas must be smokin'. The game was free-flowing back then too, it's just that old school players ALWAYS act like they had it harder in their time. Sheeit, it was nothin' to see 240 points on the board back then.

Do ya research!

[scanry]

really? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xJJNUkrdyQ

Mother fuckin Laker fans live in a fantasy (in Kobe's i might add). That is some defense... :wow:wow:wow

Seriously Jordan is underrated. :lol:lol

[scanry]

I can tell you must be a young piece of pussy. The reason the Jordan Rules were developed was because nobody could breathe on his ass or he got two free throws. The Pistons were like "fuckit, when we hit him, we're gonna make it count, cuz the muthafucka is goin' to the line anyways...so make his ass pay to get there" Get it?

Anybody that knows even a little bit about Jordan's career knows that you couldn't even look at him too hard or he shot two. And he got away with more crab dribbles (lmao) and physicality than most players. Ask Bryon Russell who, who got pushed halfway back to Long Beach State so MJ could hit one of the coldest daggers in league history.

Some of you cats have it so backwards that it's a fuckin joke. The Pistons are the exception to the rule. They didn't play that panzie shit with MJ, but if you think that's how the league was back in the day, you muhfuggas must be smokin'. The game was free-flowing back then too, it's just that old school players ALWAYS act like they had it harder in their time. Sheeit, it was nothin' to see 240 points on the board back then.

Do ya research!

Guy, Kobe is in the same boat. Hell it's even worse with him. The 2002 WCF alone will negate any bitching and whining about Jordan by the Laker fans.

[DAF86]

now is the time for all the noobies/nostalgic delusionites to accept that technically, Kobe = Jordan. period. this is the best scorer in the league by far, he is complete as shit, great passer, never gives up on defense as a guard and BLOCKS SHOTS, does exactly what his team needs at any given time, hits more DAGGER shots/clutch baskets than anyone, is unguardable and can will hismteam to victory better than ANYONE. Boston last year guarded him better than ive seen anyone guard him, and he lost because his team had too many non-black players i key roles while Boston had nothing but big strong athletic guys at every position.

but if they meet again in the Finals LA will RAPE them. i hope the Spurs have enough to beat them and they certainly can, but seriously its time for all these JORDAN = GOD people to accept that Kobe is all that Jordan was.

I was preparing myself to read some stupid shit but I wasn't ready for the racial part.

[ambchang]

You guys are all haters. Kobe is already miles ahead of Jordan, Wilt and Russell combined.

[Def Rowe]

how poised was kobe in this game?

http://www.nba.com/games/20060506/LALPHX/recap.html



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-060507



:lmao

2006... Laker haters who likely didn't watch that game wouldn't understand. That was a statement game by Kobe to the front office. I remember it quite well. The entire team couldn't hit an open jumper in the 2nd half... At all. It was a fucking joke. No fire from anyone (except Lamar) in an elimination game. Kobe would draw the double team then kick it out to Brian Cook for three. CLANK! Smush Parker, you're open, be the hero. CLANK! Luke Walton, you're wide open bud, make it happen. CLANK! Kwame, you got low post position, let's do this. MISSED LAYUP.. TURNOVER.. BRICK!

I completely understood what Kobe was doing at the time and was glad he did it. Had nothing to do with poise. It was about wanting his team to play with some fucking heart.

[DAF86]

2006... Laker haters who likely didn't watch that game wouldn't understand. That was a statement game by Kobe to the front office. I remember it quite well. The entire team couldn't hit an open jumper in the 2nd half... At all. It was a fucking joke. No fire from anyone (except Lamar) in an elimination game. Kobe would draw the double team then kick it out to Brian Cook for three. CLANK! Smush Parker, you're open, be the hero. CLANK! Luke Walton, you're wide open bud, make it happen. CLANK! Kwame, you got low post position, let's do this. MISSED LAYUP.. TURNOVER.. BRICK!

I completely understood what Kobe was doing at the time and was glad he did it. Had nothing to do with poise. It was about wanting his team to play with some fucking heart.

Just when I thought Lakers fans couldn't get any lower.

[Def Rowe]

Just when I thought Lakers fans couldn't get any lower.

How? That's an accurate description of what happened.

[DAF86]

How? That's an accurate description of what happened.

That's ridiculous and if it is true then Kobe is even dumber than I thought.

[Def Rowe]

That's ridiculous and if it is true then Kobe is even dumber than I thought.

Kobe is dumb for being surrounded by NBADL players in 2006. Got it.

[DAF86]

Kobe is dumb for being surrounded by NBADL players in 2006. Got it.

No, he is dumb for not trying his best in a game 7.

And for not beign able to get along with the most dominant player of his era, and for wanting to trade Bynum for Kidd and for getting in some strange bussines in Colorado and...

[stretch]

That's the best way to sum it up. Russell played in like an 8 team league with white guys 5 inches shorter than him at center, anything less than the dominating career he had would have been a disappointment.

My point exactly, as to why Wilt and Russell are the two most overrated players in NBA history.

[stretch]

Lakers fans are different than a lot of WC teams fans. If we don't win, we pull for the Western Conference no matter who's playing. So all of those years that the Bulls won, I was pulling for the other team and despised them. :whine

but you're a rockets fan you fucking idiot

[Def Rowe]

No, he is dumb for not trying his best in a game 7.

And for not beign able to get along with the most dominant player of his era, and for wanting to trade Bynum for Kidd and for getting in some strange bussines in Colorado and...

That's a popular opinion. That's cool.

- Shaq respects Kobe quite a lot actually.

- Bynum sucked. His upside was unknown 2 years ago. After Kobe called Bynum out, he turned into a beast.

- Colorado... 3 other semen stains in the panties... wanted to be famous...

You dislike Kobe because he's not on the Spurs. :wakeup

[stretch]

Oh one last point. I love the comparison between MJ's hey day and all of the great players he played against when he won those titles. All of the great big men Hakeem, Ewing, Drob, Shaq, Kemp, Brad D from cleveland etc, Zo, Barkley and Malone....not one of those guys ever guarded MJ or were guarded by MJ and MJ's teams still percevered. Maybe we should annoint Luc Longley, Bill Wenington, and Rodman as the real MVPs..............because when it comes down to talent and level of play....show the me the great 2 guards and 3 SF's that were awesome during his reign......yup, I'll give you Drexler....John Starks, Dumars ?, Mullin, Hornacek, Craig Ehlo.....yup.

I will have to say, there is definitely some truth to this. Kobe has had to deal with a much better group of SG's and SF's than Jordan ever did.

I understand why Kobe fans hate on Jordan so much, and a lot of it is because people tend to overrate Jordan, in the sense that he is light years ahead of Kobe, when he really isnt. Is Jordan better? No question. But its not like he is so much fucking better that Kobe can't even compete. In a seven game series against each other, if Jordan averaged 30 ppg, Kobe would probably average 26-27.

In terms of skills, they are very close. My issue with Kobe lies in the mental aspect of the game. He has always been bad about settling for jumpers and losing aggression. Those were things that never were a problem with Jordan. He would never give up, and would attack non-stop until the clock hit 0.0.

I don't think Kobe will ever be able to have a chance to pass Jordan unless he wins AT LEAST 3 more MVPs and rings, just because of the fact that he won all his rings with Shaq (who is arguably the most dominant center, and maybe even player ever), lost two finals, and he was largely at fault for BOTH of them, especially when blowing the huge lead in game 4 against Boston, something that wouldn't have happened had it been Jordan, because the BIGGEST reason it happed, was Kobe was settling for bad jumpers and lost his aggression... something Jordan would rarely ever do, especially in the playoffs.

[Medvedenko]

I will have to say, there is definitely some truth to this. Kobe has had to deal with a much better group of SG's and SF's than Jordan ever did.

I understand why Kobe fans hate on Jordan so much, and a lot of it is because people tend to overrate Jordan, in the sense that he is light years ahead of Kobe, when he really isnt. Is Jordan better? No question. But its not like he is so much fucking better that Kobe can't even compete. In a seven game series against each other, if Jordan averaged 30 ppg, Kobe would probably average 26-27.

In terms of skills, they are very close. My issue with Kobe lies in the mental aspect of the game. He has always been bad about settling for jumpers and losing aggression. Those were things that never were a problem with Jordan. He would never give up, and would attack non-stop until the clock hit 0.0.

I don't think Kobe will ever be able to have a chance to pass Jordan unless he wins AT LEAST 3 more MVPs and rings, just because of the fact that he won all his rings with Shaq (who is arguably the most dominant center, and maybe even player ever), lost two finals, and he was largely at fault for BOTH of them, especially when blowing the huge lead in game 4 against Boston, something that wouldn't have happened had it been Jordan, because the BIGGEST reason it happed, was Kobe was settling for bad jumpers and lost his aggression... something Jordan would rarely ever do, especially in the playoffs.


Good post....

Also for the record, I hated MJ and his tactics way before KOBE was in the league. I don't like players quitting and taking 2 years off for bs reasons. Imagine if Kobe did that....yikes and internets would explode.

[ambchang]

That's the best way to sum it up. Russell played in like an 8 team league with white guys 5 inches shorter than him at center, anything less than the dominating career he had would have been a disappointment.
Russell was 6-9”, 215 lbs.

In Russell’s rookie year, the Nationals have Dolph Schayes (6-7) and Red Kerr (6-9) at center, the Warriors had Neil Johnsont (6-8), and bunch of 6-7 guys, the Knicks had Phil Jordan at 6-10, Ray Felix at 6-11, and a couple of 6-9, 6-8 guys. Pistons have a few 6-7 to 6-9 guys. Basically, the center position back in the day was 6-7 to 6-11, with 6-9 pretty much being the norm.
In Russell’s final year, he was battling the Chamberlains, the Hayes, and the Reeds.
Russell was about average for a center in his days.

[stretch]

Russell was 6-9”, 215 lbs.

In Russell’s rookie year, the Nationals have Dolph Schayes (6-7) and Red Kerr (6-9) at center, the Warriors had Neil Johnsont (6-8), and bunch of 6-7 guys, the Knicks had Phil Jordan at 6-10, Ray Felix at 6-11, and a couple of 6-9, 6-8 guys. Pistons have a few 6-7 to 6-9 guys. Basically, the center position back in the day was 6-7 to 6-11, with 6-9 pretty much being the norm.
In Russell’s final year, he was battling the Chamberlains, the Hayes, and the Reeds.
Russell was about average for a center in his days.

I'd say the size advantage argument goes more towards Wilt.

Russell though played on a stacked team in an 8 team league, which is why he won so much. Wilt was dominant because there simply was no one that could even begin to compete with him athletically. He might be the only player from that era that can compare to today's top athletes.

[Cry Havoc]

Why is this thread still active?

[JoeTait75]

The reason the Jordan Rules were developed was because nobody could breathe on his ass or he got two free throws. The Pistons were like "fuckit, when we hit him, we're gonna make it count, cuz the muthafucka is goin' to the line anyways...so make his ass pay to get there" Get it?

This is true. MJ got away with murder- extra steps, push-offs, phantom contact, you name it. And he got the calls everywhere, home and road. That 63-point game he had against the Celtics in the '86 Playoffs, he probably shot 20 free throws in that game- in Boston. Detroit just decided to get its money's worth.

That having been said, Jordan changed the game in ways Kobe never has or will. He was the single biggest reason why the NBA went from the free-flowing style of the '80s to the basket-brawl style of the '90s. Teams slowed the tempo and became more physical on defense just to deal with him. Teams like the Pistons, Knicks and Heat were constructed primarily with stopping MJ in mind, or at least slowing him down.

The West on the other hand stuck with the running game long after the East had abandoned it. That's because they didn't have to deal with MJ in the Playoffs.

That's why MJ > Kobe. He affected the way the NBA game was played far more than Kobe. And MJ was on another level as a competitor. He combined great physical gifts and skills with the relentlessness of a Moses Malone. He would have never mailed in an elimination game to prove a point.

[The Franchise]

Why is this thread still active?

[dirk4mvp]

a J.J. Hickson = Karl Malone thread would be much more appropriate.

[The Franchise]

a J.J. Hickson = Karl Malone thread would be much more appropriate. Make it happen!! :toast

[LakeShow]

I will have to say, there is definitely some truth to this. Kobe has had to deal with a much better group of SG's and SF's than Jordan ever did.

I understand why Kobe fans hate on Jordan so much, and a lot of it is because people tend to overrate Jordan, in the sense that he is light years ahead of Kobe, when he really isnt. Is Jordan better? No question. But its not like he is so much fucking better that Kobe can't even compete. In a seven game series against each other, if Jordan averaged 30 ppg, Kobe would probably average 26-27.

In terms of skills, they are very close. My issue with Kobe lies in the mental aspect of the game. He has always been bad about settling for jumpers and losing aggression. Those were things that never were a problem with Jordan. He would never give up, and would attack non-stop until the clock hit 0.0.

I don't think Kobe will ever be able to have a chance to pass Jordan unless he wins AT LEAST 3 more MVPs and rings, just because of the fact that he won all his rings with Shaq (who is arguably the most dominant center, and maybe even player ever), lost two finals, and he was largely at fault for BOTH of them, especially when blowing the huge lead in game 4 against Boston, something that wouldn't have happened had it been Jordan, because the BIGGEST reason it happed, was Kobe was settling for bad jumpers and lost his aggression... something Jordan would rarely ever do, especially in the playoffs.

It never seems to amaze me how idiots like your self who never saw Michael Jordan play before he became a wizard comment on his game. What do you think, Jordan just came into the league winning championships? He went thru the same shit that Kobe's gone thru. It took him years of jacking up shots before he learned to trust his team mates. Bad shots were not unusual for Jordan in his early years as well.

The loses in the finals were a team loss. It was hardly Kobe's fault that the lakers lost to Boston and Detroit. It was a team loss.

btw, Michael didn't sniff a finals until his 7th season. Kobe's lead his team to the finals in his 4th season and on the verge of winning it in his 5th season. Just sayin...

[The Franchise]

It never seems to amaze me how idiots like your self who never saw Michael Jordan play before he became a wizard comment on his game. What do you think, Jordan just came into the league winning championships? He went thru the same shit that Kobe's gone thru. It took him years of jacking up shots before he learned to trust his team mates. Bad shots were not unusual for Jordan in his early years as well.

The loses in the finals were a team loss. It was hardly Kobe's fault that the lakers lost to Boston and Detroit. It was a team loss.

btw, Michael didn't sniff a finals until his 7th season. Kobe's lead his team to the finals in his 4th season and on the verge of winning it in his 5th season. Just sayin...

Who's your math teacher?

[stretch]

It never seems to amaze me how idiots like your self who never saw Michael Jordan play before he became a wizard comment on his game. What do you think, Jordan just came into the league winning championships? He went thru the same shit that Kobe's gone thru. It took him years of jacking up shots before he learned to trust his team mates. Bad shots were not unusual for Jordan in his early years as well.

The loses in the finals were a team loss. It was hardly Kobe's fault that the lakers lost to Boston and Detroit. It was a team loss.

btw, Michael didn't sniff a finals until his 7th season. Kobe's lead his team to the finals in his 4th season and on the verge of winning it in his 5th season. Just sayin...

i never said that michael didnt have his own issues earlier in his career. but his strengths outweigh kobe's strengths, while kobe's weaknesses, outweigh jordans weaknesses.

also, jordan didnt have the luxury of playing alongside a guy like shaq at the beginning of his career, like kobe. jordan pretty much had to learn everything on his own, the hard way. kobe actually had time to develop before getting his own team. kobe had far less excuses than jordan, who was given a shit team from the get go.

and you are a fucking idiot to say kobe is on the verge of winning it when the playoffs havent even started.

[LakeShow]

i never said that michael didnt have his own issues earlier in his career. but his strengths outweigh kobe's strengths, while kobe's weaknesses, outweigh jordan's weaknesses.

also, jordan didnt have the luxury of playing alongside a guy like shaq at the beginning of his career, like kobe. jordan pretty much had to learn everything on his own, the hard way. kobe actually had time to develop before getting his own team. kobe had far less excuses than jordan, who was given a shit team from the get go.

and you are a fucking idiot to say kobe is on the verge of winning it when the playoffs haven't even started.

Neither has any room for excuses. Different era, different time. The game has changed and you can say this and that about both of them. Went thru team mates before he got the right mix, just like Kobe. Jordan was labeled a ball hog in his early years, just like Kobe. They both played when their was hand checking. Jordan never had to deal with a zone like today but fuck all that. Talent wise they are equal.

Either/or Jordan didn't get this far in his early years.

I see it as on the verge of winning a title barring injuries. But don't talk about titles, that something you know absolutely nothing about, Bitch!

[angelbelow]

I can tell you must be a young piece of pussy. The reason the Jordan Rules were developed was because nobody could breathe on his ass or he got two free throws. The Pistons were like "fuckit, when we hit him, we're gonna make it count, cuz the muthafucka is goin' to the line anyways...so make his ass pay to get there" Get it?

Anybody that knows even a little bit about Jordan's career knows that you couldn't even look at him too hard or he shot two. And he got away with more crab dribbles (lmao) and physicality than most players. Ask Bryon Russell who, who got pushed halfway back to Long Beach State so MJ could hit one of the coldest daggers in league history.

Some of you cats have it so backwards that it's a fuckin joke. The Pistons are the exception to the rule. They didn't play that panzie shit with MJ, but if you think that's how the league was back in the day, you muhfuggas must be smokin'. The game was free-flowing back then too, it's just that old school players ALWAYS act like they had it harder in their time. Sheeit, it was nothin' to see 240 points on the board back then.

Do ya research!

sounds like you need to take your own advice. if you thought the pistons were the only team to play rough with jordan, then go spend some time on youtube.

[angelbelow]

It never seems to amaze me how idiots like your self who never saw Michael Jordan play before he became a wizard comment on his game. What do you think, Jordan just came into the league winning championships? He went thru the same shit that Kobe's gone thru. It took him years of jacking up shots before he learned to trust his team mates. Bad shots were not unusual for Jordan in his early years as well.

The loses in the finals were a team loss. It was hardly Kobe's fault that the lakers lost to Boston and Detroit. It was a team loss.

btw, Michael didn't sniff a finals until his 7th season. Kobe's lead his team to the finals in his 4th season and on the verge of winning it in his 5th season. Just sayin...

some people may disagree here, but i think that being a leader, means that you take the glory of winning but you take the responsibility of losing. obviously not to the extreme, but the majority of it. if kobe is to be the leader, then he should have no problem taking the blame, just like we all know that he would have no problem taking glory. I am not saying its not the teams fault either, but it starts with the leader and if filters down.

[stretch]

They both played when their was hand checking. Jordan never had to deal with a zone like today but fuck all that.

Bullshit. Teams played zone back then too, but just had to find more creative ways to adjust to it. I especially recall seeing the Celtics do it quite often.


I see it as on the verge of winning a title barring injuries. But don't talk about titles, that something you know absolutely nothing about, Bitch!

:td :rolleyes

[LakeShow]

some people may disagree here, but i think that being a leader, means that you take the glory of winning but you take the responsibility of losing. obviously not to the extreme, but the majority of it. if kobe is to be the leader, then he should have no problem taking the blame, just like we all know that he would have no problem taking glory. I am not saying its not the teams fault either, but it starts with the leader and if filters down.

I agree. Sure Kobe gets some of the blame and he should but to state that he was the REASON the lakers loss is ludicrous. Against the Suns, he pouted and followed Phil's orders. Yeah he acted like a bitch and I disliked what he did as well but I would have preferred to see him jack up shots that day too. That was a bad move by Phil, imo. Against Boston? Hell he had to play 1 on 5. Boston was the difference in that series. In both cases those teams were just the better teams.

[LakeShow]

Bullshit. Teams played zone back then too, but just had to find more creative ways to adjust to it. I especially recall seeing the Celtics do it quite often.



:td :rolleyes

Teams did no such thing. Sure they would double and trap the ball but playing an area, which is what they do now, was not allowed.

[stretch]

Against Boston? Hell he had to play 1 on 5. Boston was the difference in that series.

:wtf

The series was tied 2-2, and LA had a massive second half lead. Instead of staying aggressive, he sat back and shot lazy jumpers. When Boston slowly started chipping away, he still sat back and shot lazy jumpers. After Boston gained the lead, he still sat back and shot lazy jumpers.

Definitely not Jordan-esqe at all. Jordan might have been crazy to go driving 1-on-5, but at least he never gave up, or lost that aggression, even when his teammates were busy faking migranes and shit because they were too scared to play.

[stretch]

Teams did no such thing. Sure they would double and trap the ball but playing an area, which is what they do now, was not allowed.

Again, they obviously didn't play a blatant zone like teams can today, but they would find ways to accomplish the same thing zone defenses do today with timely doubles and collapsing on drivers the same way zones do today, trying to prevent teams from going into the paint for their scoring, and forcing them to pass the ball better and beat them with the long range shot.

[mabrignani]

Oh, well in that case Rasheed Wallace > Tim Duncan.

i remember tim owning rasheed in the finals...

[stretch]

i remember tim owning rasheed in the finals...

has nothing to do with talent

and rasheed screwed himself over by coming off of rob

[mabrignani]

has nothing to do with talent

and rasheed screwed himself over by coming off of rob

i think you need talent to own someone in basketball....especially when its for a ring

[dirk4mvp]

i think you need talent to own someone in basketball....especially when its for a ring


Are you retarded? You're making stretch look smart, which is pretty fucking hard to do.

[crc21209]

There will never ever be another player like Michael Jordan. I will say that Kobe is the closest thing we have gotten to him, but he will never match him. Jordan won a total of 6 titles in 8 years. The other two that were won in between (94', 95') was when he tried that baseball experiment. So who knows if maybe, just maybe the Bulls couldve swept 91' thru 98'.

[stretch]

Are you retarded? You're making stretch look smart, which is pretty fucking hard to do.

LMAO chargers > colts

[dirk4mvp]

LMAO chargers > colts


lmao utsa football team > raiders

[hater]

Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

[stretch]

lmao utsa football team > raiders

LMAO 3 rings FAGGOT

[dirk4mvp]

LMAO 3 rings FAGGOT

LMAO a ring in the recent era

LMAO tuck rule

[stretch]

LMAO 3 > 2

LMAO worthlessburgers tackle

[mabrignani]

lmao mavs suck

[dirk4mvp]

LMAO Al Davis

LMAO overpaying a cb

LMAO jamarcus russell

[stretch]

LMAO defense

LMAO patriots

LMAO steelers

LMAO chargers

LMAO 3 > 2

[dirk4mvp]

LMAO every team in the nfl

LMAO the fast and the furious

LMAO shitty movie

LMAO he likes the tuna

[mabrignani]

regardless of the case....tim duncan>rasheed wallace
anyone besides pistons fans, even most of them would agree with that statement

[dirk4mvp]

regardless of the case....tim duncan>rasheed wallace
anyone besides pistons fans, even most of them would agree with that statement

That wasn't what he was saying in the first place, dipshit.

[stretch]

That wasn't what he was saying in the first place, dipshit.

he failed. like your colts constantly do.

[dirk4mvp]

I'd cut off my left nut to have Jim Sorgi as the qb of the raiders.

[stretch]

id suck an old mans dick to win as much as the pats and tom brady have

[IronMexican]

Colts = the 90's Braves and New Millenium Pistons.

[poop]

LMAO i was so drunk i dont even remember starting -or posting in- this thread haha and now its 7 pages long hahahahahahahahahhahahaha

[PM5K]

LMAO i was so drunk i dont even remember starting -or posting in- this thread haha and now its 7 pages long hahahahahahahahahhahahaha

That does explain it, you really would have to be drunk to think that Kobe=Jordan.....

[LnGrrrR]

but if they meet again in the Finals KOBE will RAPE them.

Fixed. After all, it wouldn't be his first time.

(I apologize if this joke has been made already, as I haven't read the whole thread :D)

[pauls931]

This is how good jordan is. He got bored and decided to try to play baseball.

[Obstructed_View]

Igoudala=Jordan

[Manufan909]

Pops>Jordan+Pippen+Kerr
:lol