Not looking good for Six Flags / Fiesta Texas

[CosmicCowboy]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090316/six_flags_restructuring.html

AP
Six Flags CEO says debt holder won't talk
Monday March 16, 12:33 pm ET
Six Flags CEO says key debt holder refuses to negotiate out-of-court refinancing

NEW YORK (AP) -- A key holder of Six Flags Inc.'s debt is holding up negotiations to restructure the debt, the company's president and chief executive told investors Monday.

CEO Mark Shapiro did not name the debt holder, which he said holds a "significant amount" of the company's senior notes due in 2010. But he said it "has refused to meet" to renegotiate the debt.

"The auto companies have an easier time getting a meeting with the United Auto Workers than I do of getting a meeting with this particular portfolio fund manager," Shapiro said.

The New York-based company said in its annual report last week that a Chapter 11 filing is possible if it doesn't restructure its debt.

The company's first looming obligation is to holders of its preferred income redeemable shares, or PIERS, which will be due more than $300 million when the shares mature on Aug. 15.

Six Flags has said it does not expect to have enough cash to meet that obligation.

"We simply can't refinance our debt with the markets being what they are and we can't sell excess real estate in this environment and expect to get something even close to full value," Shapiro said.

Shapiro disclosed that the company has retained investment banking firm Houlihan Lokey financial advisers to help restructure the company's balance sheet to reduce debt and expects any out-of-court solution to include a "significant debt-for-equity exchange."

Shapiro said restructuring debt -- in court or outside -- will not affect the experience visitors have at its theme parks and the company plans a "heavy advertising and communications blitz" to get that message to the public.

Despite its debt burden, Shapiro said, Six Flags has achieved its operational objectives of making its parks more attractive to families, growing its sponsorship and licensing businesses, improving profit margins and generating positive free cash flow last year for the first time in the company's history.

Six Flags reported last week that its revenue fourth-quarter rose as attendance at its parks jumped 9 percent over the same period the year before. The company's losses, however, widened to $206.6 million, or $2.12 per share, in part because the company's income tax expense spiked.

Even with consumers cutting their spending and labor and other operational expenses forecast to rise this year, Shapiro said he remains optimistic about the parks' performance this summer.

Six Flags shares, which have traded under $1 since September, were trading as low as their all-time low of 14 cents on Monday. The stock has traded between 14 cents and $2.50 during the past 52 weeks.

Six Flags over Georgia is located in Austell in suburban Atlanta.

[InRareForm]

magic mountain in southern california is in deep doo doo too.

[JudynTX]

Maybe they should lower their prices. :)

[JoeChalupa]

Maybe they should lower their prices. :)

Season pass is the way to go.

[JudynTX]

Season pass is the way to go.

I wouldn't go enough to get a season pass.

Why can't they let me in for $1? :lol

[JoeChalupa]

I wouldn't go enough to get a season pass.

Why can't they let me in for $1? :lol

We've got kids so we more than get our money's worth.



$1? Retama Park!!

[JudynTX]

We've got kids so we more than get our money's worth.



$1? Retama Park!!

Can I rent your pass for a day? :lol

[RandomGuy]

Maybe they should lower their prices. :)

I concur.

[HeadBanger]

Lowering prices won't solve their problems. I think EricB stated as to why.

[RandomGuy]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090316/six_flags_restructuring.html

AP
Six Flags CEO says debt holder won't talk
Monday March 16, 12:33 pm ET
Six Flags CEO says key debt holder refuses to negotiate out-of-court refinancing

NEW YORK (AP) -- A key holder of Six Flags Inc.'s debt is holding up negotiations to restructure the debt, the company's president and chief executive told investors Monday.

CEO Mark Shapiro did not name the debt holder, which he said holds a "significant amount" of the company's senior notes due in 2010. But he said it "has refused to meet" to renegotiate the debt.

"The auto companies have an easier time getting a meeting with the United Auto Workers than I do of getting a meeting with this particular portfolio fund manager," Shapiro said.

The New York-based company said in its annual report last week that a Chapter 11 filing is possible if it doesn't restructure its debt.

The company's first looming obligation is to holders of its preferred income redeemable shares, or PIERS, which will be due more than $300 million when the shares mature on Aug. 15.

Six Flags has said it does not expect to have enough cash to meet that obligation.

"We simply can't refinance our debt with the markets being what they are and we can't sell excess real estate in this environment and expect to get something even close to full value," Shapiro said.

Shapiro disclosed that the company has retained investment banking firm Houlihan Lokey financial advisers to help restructure the company's balance sheet to reduce debt and expects any out-of-court solution to include a "significant debt-for-equity exchange."

Shapiro said restructuring debt -- in court or outside -- will not affect the experience visitors have at its theme parks and the company plans a "heavy advertising and communications blitz" to get that message to the public.

Despite its debt burden, Shapiro said, Six Flags has achieved its operational objectives of making its parks more attractive to families, growing its sponsorship and licensing businesses, improving profit margins and generating positive free cash flow last year for the first time in the company's history.

Six Flags reported last week that its revenue fourth-quarter rose as attendance at its parks jumped 9 percent over the same period the year before. The company's losses, however, widened to $206.6 million, or $2.12 per share, in part because the company's income tax expense spiked.

Even with consumers cutting their spending and labor and other operational expenses forecast to rise this year, Shapiro said he remains optimistic about the parks' performance this summer.

Six Flags shares, which have traded under $1 since September, were trading as low as their all-time low of 14 cents on Monday. The stock has traded between 14 cents and $2.50 during the past 52 weeks.

Six Flags over Georgia is located in Austell in suburban Atlanta.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=57&pictureid=320

[RandomGuy]

Lowering prices won't solve their problems. I think EricB stated as to why.

??

That depends on the underlying demand for their product.

If you slide a bit down the demand curve with your price point, you could sell more tickets and actually end up making MORE money by lowering the price.

Especially if you make the majority of your profits from concessions, which I would guess is likely.

[IronMexican]

magic mountain in southern california is in deep doo doo too.

Cause they need to take that shit out of that piece of shit town. It's in the fucking desert, of course no one is going to go there.

[Spurminator]

They made some news here by announcing they'd start selling alcohol. We'll see if that gives them any sustainable revenue lift.

[Blake]

yeah, strictly lowering the price of admission does nothing.

what they should do is make better package deals, offering up more incentives with the price of admission.........

[jackseven]

Six Flags reported last week that its revenue fourth-quarter rose as attendance at its parks jumped 9 percent over the same period the year before. The company's losses, however, widened to $206.6 million, or $2.12 per share, in part because the company's income tax expense spiked.



I wonder how much their taxes are. Just as an observer, there business outlay doesn't seem that bad. Taxes might be too high.

[Cry Havoc]

I don't understand how a place like Six Flags can lose money. You're talking $40 a person, per day? Unless EVERYONE is buying season passes, Six Flags establishments have to make millions of dollars per weekend per park with the number of people that go there.

[JoeChalupa]

Well, we don't spend hardly any money for concessions. We take our lunches and snacks. Noway I'm paying $3.50 for a bottle of water.

[JudynTX]

Well, we don't spend hardly any money for concessions. We take our lunches and snacks. Noway I'm paying $3.50 for a bottle of water.

You can get bottled water @ Wal-Mart for $1. :lol

[JoeChalupa]

You can get bottled water @ Wal-Mart for $1. :lol

Si, es verdad. :tu

[Blake]

You can get bottled water @ Wal-Mart for $1. :lol

how much is a WalMart season pass?

I'm not talking SamsClub....

[EricB]

Well, we don't spend hardly any money for concessions. We take our lunches and snacks. Noway I'm paying $3.50 for a bottle of water.


Now you see why they are losing money.

[EricB]

I don't understand how a place like Six Flags can lose money. You're talking $40 a person, per day? Unless EVERYONE is buying season passes, Six Flags establishments have to make millions of dollars per weekend per park with the number of people that go there.


The million dollars worth of rides there need work.

The parts and supplies that are needed to keep them safe and running are astronomically high. Trust me, I know that just recently.

[JoeChalupa]

Now you see why they are losing money.

Because of their outrageous prices for concessions? When we go there are plenty of people tailgating during lunch time.

[EricB]

Because of their outrageous prices for concessions? When we go there are plenty of people tailgating during lunch time.

Because no one is buying food.


Thats how they make money, they make a profit on food, concessions and other items.

People stop buying that, business's net goes down.

I'm not saying its all your fault, but, when you complain about the "3.50" water your thinking that the company just makes a straight profit on said water.

You have to look at the cost of behind the water, the person selling the water, the workman's comp for the person selling the water, the cost of buying the water, and on and on and on. Hence why the water is 3.50.

[JoeChalupa]

Because no one is buying food.


Thats how they make money, they make a profit on food, concessions and other items.

People stop buying that, business's net goes down.

I'm not saying its all your fault, but, when you complain about the "3.50" water your thinking that the company just makes a straight profit on said water.

You have to look at the cost of behind the water, the person selling the water, the workman's comp for the person selling the water, the cost of buying the water, and on and on and on. Hence why the water is 3.50.

Then they need to use as you would say "smart business" like Wal-Mart so they don't HAVE to charge $3.50 for a bottle of water. No?
Does HEB and Wal-Mart not have to pay for the cost of the water, the checker, benefits for said worker, well maybe not for Wal-Mart, and on and on?

[EricB]

Then they need to use as you would say "smart business" like Wal-Mart so they don't HAVE to charge $3.50 for a bottle of water. No?
Does HEB and Wal-Mart not have to pay for the cost of the water, the checker, benefits for said worker, well maybe not for Wal-Mart, and on and on?

So they need to produce their own water now?

Thats what they would HAVE to do. Right now, they have water suppliers, that need to make money on THEIR water, so they charge X, then you sell water for Y profit, and to make that profit you have to take into account the costs that go into it.

I gaurantee you they have tried to find a way to make their concessions cheaper, but thats the cost.

Your comparing apples and oranges.

That being said, are they badly managed? I can't objectively say, I don't have their books in front of me and say one way or the other.

What I can say is, their business is MOSTLY amusement rides and thats one of the HUGE reasons people go there.

The rides they manage are gigantic, expensive and costly.

The insurance, cleaning and maintence supplies and worker's costs that go into it are astronomical.

Honestly people would be SHOCKED at how much it costs to manage said park. People complain about the gate price being 40 dollars, when in fact, to help make money they should probobly be charging 80.

[JoeChalupa]

So they need to produce their own water now?

Thats what they would HAVE to do. Right now, they have water suppliers, that need to make money on THEIR water, so they charge X, then you sell water for Y profit, and to make that profit you have to take into account the costs that go into it.

I gaurantee you they have tried to find a way to make their concessions cheaper, but thats the cost.

Your comparing apples and oranges.

That being said, are they badly managed? I can't objectively say, I don't have their books in front of me and say one way or the other.

What I can say is, their business is MOSTLY amusement rides and thats one of the HUGE reasons people go there.

The rides they manage are gigantic, expensive and costly.

The insurance, cleaning and maintence supplies and worker's costs that go into it are astronomical.

Honestly people would be SHOCKED at how much it costs to manage said park. People complain about the gate price being 40 dollars, when in fact, to help make money they should probobly be charging 80.

Well said. I know I've wondered myself walking through the park how much it costs just in utilities alone. But as a consumer there is no way I'll pay those high prices for food. Yeah, I'll get a funnel cake, with a coupon of course, and a soda, with a $3 off coupon for the bottle and 99 cent refills for the year. I know that is how they make the majority of their money but I just won't pay those prices.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if they wanna solve there shit

sell stuff below fkn costs and keep those assets in american hands

fkn dumbshit selling their souls to the devils outside america.

[EricB]

Well said. I know I've wondered myself walking through the park how much it costs just in utilities alone. But as a consumer there is no way I'll pay those high prices for food. Yeah, I'll get a funnel cake, with a coupon of course, and a soda, with a $3 off coupon for the bottle and 99 cent refills for the year. I know that is how they make the majority of their money but I just won't pay those prices.


That's fine, just try and not scratch your head when you drive by the park and its empty.

[EricB]

if they wanna solve there shit

sell stuff below fkn costs and keep those assets in american hands

fkn dumbshit selling their souls to the devils outside america.


Yeah thats sound business advice.

[Clandestino]

the one thing that happens if you lower prices too much then the riffraff starts to go. just like the DOLLAR CINEMAS and SPLASHTOWN... regular folks shy away.

[EricB]

the one thing that happens if you lower prices too much then the riffraff starts to go. just like the DOLLAR CINEMAS and SPLASHTOWN... regular folks shy away.

Not really.

If you have good amounts of security then you can scare em off.

[TheTruth]

Not really.

If you have good amounts of security then you can scare em off.

Wouldn't more security guards cost more money?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Wouldn't more security guards cost more money?

pay some kent minimum wage and health insurance, wouldnt they want the job during these times? instead of paying them what the law states ?

[EricB]

Wouldn't more security guards cost more money?

It would.

But were not talking doubleing or tripling your security.

[EricB]

pay some kent minimum wage and health insurance, wouldnt they want the job during these times? instead of paying them what the law states ?

You gotta have better security than that.

[JoeChalupa]

the one thing that happens if you lower prices too much then the riffraff starts to go. just like the DOLLAR CINEMAS and SPLASHTOWN... regular folks shy away.

Who do you consider "regular folks"?

[Blake]

the one thing that happens if you lower prices too much then the riffraff starts to go. just like the DOLLAR CINEMAS and SPLASHTOWN... regular folks shy away.

and yet those two entities have been in business for years.....

go figure

[mFFL03]

Because no one is buying food.


Thats how they make money, they make a profit on food, concessions and other items.

People stop buying that, business's net goes down.

I'm not saying its all your fault, but, when you complain about the "3.50" water your thinking that the company just makes a straight profit on said water.

You have to look at the cost of behind the water, the person selling the water, the workman's comp for the person selling the water, the cost of buying the water, and on and on and on. Hence why the water is 3.50.

...and then you see senior management's paycheck, house(s), and cars. Then you truly see where your 3.50 water REALLY goes.

[Blake]

I'm thinking the concessions are just a small part of it.

If they wanted to sell water for $2 a bottle, they would do just fine. In fact, maybe Chalupa decides paying $2 at the park is actually more reasonable than having to lug in an extra 6 pack.

I think the main killers for the amusement park are the ride maintenenance issues and the shows. I'm betting it's not cheap to get even semi-talented singers/musicians/acrobats/etc......

[JoeChalupa]

Nah, $2 is still too much. Most of the time we take our Six Flags bottle and just fill it with water and ask for ice and since I carry the backpack all day long I ain't lugging no six-pack.

[Clandestino]

Who do you consider "regular folks"?

non-gangbangers

[exstatic]

and yet those two entities have been in business for years.....

go figure

Actually, Dollar Cinemas are almost dead, at least in SA.

[Cry Havoc]

Yeah thats sound business advice.

From what it sounds like, it's costing them $3.50 for water (according to you, though that just doesn't sound right) for water that they aren't selling. So that's a what, net $3.25 loss on every bottle of water that's just sitting there at the the end of the day (again, your math)?

I simply can't AFFORD to buy concessions every time I go to 6 Flags. It makes no sense to me, especially if I have a season pass and can just pop in and out any time I feel like it.

But every time I go, with the exception of early in the work week, I see the rides and coasters jammed. Even the concessions are always packed with people, especially if it's hot out.

[ploto]

Because no one is buying food.

Thats how they make money, they make a profit on food, concessions and other items.

People stop buying that, business's net goes down.
Schlitterbahn has always allowed you to bring your own food and drinks into the park and they seem to have done more than fine. Some people buy food there but many picnic.

[ploto]

I'm betting it's not cheap to get even semi-talented singers/musicians/acrobats/etc......

Their pay is actually pretty low.

[EricB]

Schlitterbahn has always allowed you to bring your own food and drinks into the park and they seem to have done more than fine. Some people buy food there but many picnic.

It costs alot less to upkeep slides and water, than it does multi million dollar amusement rides.

[Blake]

Actually, Dollar Cinemas are almost dead, at least in SA.

Skidmark on 410/Evers looks like it is still going pretty good, basically turning a profit on concessions alone.

I havent heard of them getting ready to close down...... have you?

[Blake]

Their pay is actually pretty low.

link?

how little is Colbie Caillat getting paid for her "free" performance in June?

[JudynTX]

Some friends are in town and they went to Six Flags yesterday, they had a good time. I told them "good, cause it might not be around next year".

[Extra Stout]

Six Flags is in trouble because of the legacy of bad management from 1998-2005. They grossly overexpanded, built up enormous debt, and lost money every year. New management has been trying to turn things around, but the credit crunch has descended on them. They've already had to sell a lot of their properties for pennies on the dollar. For example, they hoped to get $150 million for AstroWorld, but ended up selling for just $77 million.

Park revenue actually increased in 2008 (which people apparently missed in the posted article). They aren't going down because people have stopped going to Six Flags. It's a finance issue.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Does anyone know if Six Flags manages it's own concessions, or if they have a contract with a vendor (i.e. Aramark)?

[ploto]

how little is Colbie Caillat getting paid for her "free" performance in June?

He was talking about the regular performers at Six Flags Parks who do the shows day in and day out. Their pay is actually pretty low.

[koriwhat]

fiesta texas sucks and for the price of admission it ain't worth it! not only is it expensive as hell for 1 day but you also have to pay an outrageous price to park a mile away from the entrance.

[Blake]

He was talking about the regular performers at Six Flags Parks who do the shows day in and day out. Their pay is actually pretty low.

I was?

What is the pay of the day in day out performers?

[JudynTX]

I was?

What is the pay of the day in day out performers?

:lol

Whatever happened to Dollar Nights?

[jack sommerset]

I had a season pass last year for the one in Arlington Texas. I think we paid like 30 bucks per pass. Whatever the price was, it was cheap. My wife,daughter and I would drive to Arlington on a Friday night. Stay in a pretty good Hotel (Either Sheraton or Hilton) for about 50 bucks a night thanks to priceline.com. Stay until Sunday. They had a trolley take us to the park and back to the Hotel so we didnot have to spend money on parking and we would eat at the Hotel or some restaurant in town.

We did this 4-5 weekends last year. We would spend about 200 dollars a weekend. It was fun because we would go to the park but do other things the Hotel would have to offer such as swimming,tennis,movies,etc.. We would not stay at the park more than 5-6 hours a stretch. Living about 45 minutes away it was a cheap way to get out of town and have fun with my 5 year old. We won't be doing it this year (burnt out) but from about March to Halloween last year it was really fun and CHEAP.

[RandomGuy]

fiesta texas sucks and for the price of admission it ain't worth it! not only is it expensive as hell for 1 day but you also have to pay an outrageous price to park a mile away from the entrance.


COMMENTARY: John Kelso

Going to Fiesta Texas? What are you, crazy?

If you're an old grump like me, you'll have a better time at a funeral than at Six Flags Fiesta Texas . At least when your Uncle Mort croaks, you only have to stand in line once — to see the body.

But every so often you've got to take one for the team. So on Friday, since it was spring break for Austin High kids, I took my 18-year-old daughter, Rachel , her high school buddy Holly , and my wife, Kay, to the Fiesta Texas amusement park in San Antonio.

Amusement, aschmoozement. At the park, from around 11 in the morning until about 6:30 at night, I figure I spent about four hours either standing or waiting in one line or another.

During that time I went on two rides that probably lasted about six minutes total (although the kids went on more). For this I spent $151.51 for four tickets, $20 for preferred parking (regular parking is $15), and $32 and change for two cold cheeseburger plates and a large Coke at a fast-food spot called Johnny Rockets . I would have had about as much fun if I'd taken two $100 bills and jammed them up my nose.

The line-waiting started when we got to the park and had to sit in a traffic snarl at the entrance for 45 minutes just to reach the parking lot.

A cop was directing traffic, but he seemed to be ignoring us.

"Why don't you lean out the window and tell him, 'Don't you know who I am?' " Rachel suggested. Yeah, like that would have helped. We would have gone on the handcuff ride.

When we got to our first roller coaster, the Road Runner Express , we stood in line for another 45 minutes to get on a ride that lasted about three minutes.

"I like the feeling when your organs are floating," said Rachel, who loves roller coasters.

"I like the feeling when the ride ends and you realize you haven't been hurled to your death," I thought.

Kay, Rachel and Holly can be seen either laughing or screaming gleefully in the picture we bought of ourselves riding on the Road Runner Express.

I look like a corpse in a ball cap.

The ride known as the Gully Washer was almost as bad, but in a different way. The Gully Washer is a water ride where you bob around in a big rubber tire-looking thingy while a waterfall pours water on your head and ruins your shoes. If you've got on white pants, don't wear your dark underwear.

We stood in line for probably an hour and a half to get on the Gully Washer, and it probably lasted three minutes. I still have the water stains on my shoes to prove I was there.

The worst line of all was at Johnny Rockets. I stood in line for about an hour to order two burgers, and there were only about a dozen people in front of me. I'm not sure why it took an hour. Let's just say it's the worst service I've seen in 64 years on the planet.

And it took another half an hour to get the cold food after I ordered it. And the cheese on the cheeseburgers wasn't even melted.

The only good thing that came of this is that the girls had a great time. And I got my picture taken with Tweety. Other than that, the whole thing was for the birds. So if you're going, wear sensible shoes and bring a sandwich in your pocket.
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/03/24/0324kelso.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=52

Not exactly a glowing endorsement.

I was considering taking my small children to the kiddie section of the park, but given this, am strongly reconsidering that.

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/03/24/0324kelso.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=52

Not exactly a glowing endorsement.

I was considering taking my small children to the kiddie section of the park, but given this, am strongly reconsidering that.Austinites will never admit to having a good time outside in San Antonio.

[Spurminator]

Just don't go on a Saturday.