Attention: People living in tents

[BacktoBasics]

I recently read how things were so bad :rolleyes that some of you guys were forced to live in tents. Must have been some kind of horrible "out of your hands" type of situation but you guys might be able to save this company. Hell they might even pay your bus fair. Hopefully you guys can manage to crawl out of your holes to see this. I know how being unemployed can cause muscle atrophy.


TAMPA, Florida (AFP) – A Florida-based firm will soon close one of its North Dakota offices for a reason that seems unfathomable during the deepening US recession: it can't find enough employees to hire.

Sykes Enterprises, which specializes in creating and maintaining computer customer care services for corporations, opened a telephone call center in Minot, North Dakota in 1996. Last May, management wanted to increase the number of employees to 450.

Yet an unexpected thing happened: so few people applied for the Minot jobs that the Tampa-headquartered company will have to close the call center on May 10 -- a cutback by Sykes that will result in 200 people losing their jobs.

"We've been working for several months there (in Minot) to find enough applicants for the work, since we have been experiencing significant growth in the US," said Sykes spokeswoman Andrea Burnett.

She also told AFP that Sykes advertised for many months in the local Minot electronic and press media for applicants.

The state of North Dakota has bucked the national trend which has seen the US economy hemorrhage 651,000 jobs in February, pushing the unemployment rate to a 25-year high of 8.1 percent and pointing to an ever-deepening recession.

But the unemployment rate in North Dakota stood at just 5.1 percent, one of the lowest in the nation.

And Minot in particular has been seemingly recession-proof with the city's economy being based on agricultural commodities and oil production, and with it being the home town of a US Air Force base. The micro-economies of all three are productive, leading to Minot's economic healthiness.

Geography, demographics and weather may have kept outsiders from applying for the jobs. The sparsely populated state of just 640,000 residents is in the far northern Great Plains, one of the remotest regions in the contiguous United States.

Parts of North Dakota, including the northwest where Minot, a city of about 40,000, is located, can be as cold as Alaska during winter months.

[mrsmaalox]

It's freaking cold in ND!! Who'd want to live in a tent there??

[Viva Las Espuelas]

It's freaking cold in ND!! Who'd want to live in a tent there??
the same ones that have internet access in these tents so they can read this.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

the same ones that have internet access in these tents so they can read this.

beat me to it

[Extra Stout]

Because it is perfectly straightforward for somebody in a tent in Sacramento both to get themselves to Fargo. The poor are noted for their high mobility.

[1369]

Because it is perfectly straightforward for somebody in a tent in Sacramento both to get themselves to Fargo. The poor are noted for their high mobility.

The logic and sarcasm....it burns

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Because it is perfectly straightforward for somebody in a tent in Sacramento both to get themselves to Fargo. The poor are noted for their high mobility.
....and wi fi attainability.

[BacktoBasics]

You can dissect my statements however you please but the fact of the matter is that someone who's motivated to seek gainful employment can in fact secure a job. With a company like this its not uncommon for their to be some sort of reasonable relocation package or help. Especially if they're having such a hard time finding people to keep their successful business running.

Crying about how difficult it is for a homeless man to move across the country is a waste of hot air as far as I'm concerned because it can be done. He's already in a fucking tent....go live in a tent where the jobs are. Better yet check into a shelter because in a town with employment rates doing so well there is bound to be plenty of beds available.

Go ahead and just keep making excuses for them. They feed off that shit like they do our garbage.

[BacktoBasics]

....and wi fi attainability.I would never expect a moron like yourself to think that a homeless man could log on to the internet from the public library free of fucking charge. God forbid he find a resourceful way to seek gainful employment.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

http://www.myteespot.com/images/Images_d/DSCF1225.jpg

[EricB]

You can dissect my statements however you please but the fact of the matter is that someone who's motivated to seek gainful employment can in fact secure a job. With a company like this its not uncommon for their to be some sort of reasonable relocation package or help. Especially if they're having such a hard time finding people to keep their successful business running.

Crying about how difficult it is for a homeless man to move across the country is a waste of hot air as far as I'm concerned because it can be done. He's already in a fucking tent....go live in a tent where the jobs are. Better yet check into a shelter because in a town with employment rates doing so well there is bound to be plenty of beds available.

Go ahead and just keep making excuses for them. They feed off that shit like they do our garbage.


:standandapplaud

[mrsmaalox]

I would never expect a moron like yourself to think that a homeless man could log on to the internet from the public library free of fucking charge. God forbid he find a resourceful way to seek gainful employment.

But, but, but in your OP you implied the homeless can't possibly be resourceful! Are they resourceful or not? :dizzy

[EricB]

But, but, but in your OP you implied the homeless can't possibly be resourceful! Are they resourceful or not? :dizzy

They're resourcefull enough to somehow find a sharpie to write on their cardboard sign.

[JoeChalupa]

Easier said than done but I understand where you are coming from. I watched a show last night about people getting evicted from their homes. Sad indeed.

[JoeChalupa]

They're resourcefull enough to somehow find a sharpie to write on their cardboard sign.

I hope and pray that you'll never be in that situation. Or anyone else for that matter.

[EricB]

I hope and pray that you'll never be in that situation.


:lol

Yeah ok, the reasons they are there are by choice more often than not.

So more than likely no I won't be.

[JoeChalupa]

:lol

Yeah ok, the reasons they are there are by choice more often than not.

So more than likely no I won't be.

And you have proof of that right? I know there are those who choose that lifestyle but I won't judge them.

[BacktoBasics]

But, but, but in your OP you implied the homeless can't possibly be resourceful! Are they resourceful or not? :dizzyMany of them are fully capable of being resourceful enough to find work. However most won't.

[JoeChalupa]

And some will.

[EricB]

And you have proof of that right? I know there are those who choose that lifestyle but I won't judge them.

I do because the homeless is who my business hires.

Go with my cousin a few times to hire workers and you would be SHOCKED at the response.

[desflood]

Many of them are fully capable of being resourceful enough to find work. However most won't.
More of them are mentally ill and are indeed unable to work.

[EricB]

Many of them are fully capable of being resourceful enough to find work. However most won't.

Most won't because they would make more living off the government.

That simple.

[Extra Stout]

They're resourcefull enough to somehow find a sharpie to write on their cardboard sign.
The guy by the side of the road holding up a sign probably lives in a nearby house and does an acting job for easy cash.

Most actual homeless don't advertise. A sign would double as a bulls-eye.

[BacktoBasics]

More of them are mentally ill and are indeed unable to work.That % is? The tent people article was interviewing recently unemployed people who were relegated to tents. Specifically a car salesman off the top of my head. I don't think he was mentally retarded. I'd guess 10% maybe 5% of the homeless are mentally unstable and probably shouldn't be on the streets and deserve better. In no way are "more of them" or most or anywhere near half of them mentally ill.

[BacktoBasics]

Most won't because they would make more living off the government.

That simple.Hell even less would prompt that behavior. My father in law quite his 35k a year job for the 2k a month he gets in disability because "why work for more when you can earn a fair amount by doing nothing". Pretty fucked up and very common.

[desflood]

That % is? I'd guess 10% maybe 5% of the homeless are mentally unstable and probably shouldn't be on the streets and deserve better. In no way are "more of them" or most or anywhere near half of them mentally ill.
1/3?

http://www.homelessmentallyill.org/faq.htm

[TDMVPDPOY]

That % is? The tent people article was interviewing recently unemployed people who were relegated to tents. Specifically a car salesman off the top of my head. I don't think he was mentally retarded. I'd guess 10% maybe 5% of the homeless are mentally unstable and probably shouldn't be on the streets and deserve better. In no way are "more of them" or most or anywhere near half of them mentally ill.

fuck them tent people = the jones

i could care less about them ppl were living it up during the good times, now everything is in the shitters, are brought back down to reality. Foreclosure is looming biatches.

i hate the fkn ppl who are well off who attend them food vans where charities hand out free samiches, soup and tea for the less fortunate who live on the streets. fuck them free loading kents.

[TDMVPDPOY]

hey i read that you can buy foreclosure houses in america for less than 5k.....so whats the catch here?

[EricB]

Hell even less would prompt that behavior. My father in law quite his 35k a year job for the 2k a month he gets in disability because "why work for more when you can earn a fair amount by doing nothing". Pretty fucked up and very common.

Not to be political, but the current administration won't change that AT ALL.

[EricB]

hey i read that you can buy foreclosure houses in america for less than 5k.....so whats the catch here?


You live next door to crachhouses. Or its in Detroit.

6 in one, half dozen the other.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

You can dissect my statements however you please but the fact of the matter is that someone who's motivated to seek gainful employment can in fact secure a job. With a company like this its not uncommon for their to be some sort of reasonable relocation package or help. Especially if they're having such a hard time finding people to keep their successful business running.

Crying about how difficult it is for a homeless man to move across the country is a waste of hot air as far as I'm concerned because it can be done. He's already in a fucking tent....go live in a tent where the jobs are. Better yet check into a shelter because in a town with employment rates doing so well there is bound to be plenty of beds available.

Go ahead and just keep making excuses for them. They feed off that shit like they do our garbage.

Have you ever tried to get a job without an address or phone number to list on the fucking resume or application?

[exstatic]

You'd probably have an easier time attracting the mentally ill to Minot than the sane. When I was in the AF, Minot AFB was a northern tier hardship assignment, and was almost treated like going overseas. The tour was short and you got an assignment choice for your follow on base. They still didn't get enough volunteers.

[chode_regulator]

Easier said than done but I understand where you are coming from. I watched a show last night about people getting evicted from their homes. Sad indeed.

Was that 60 minutes? If it was i watched it too, and it was sad. But they kinda gave off the impression that they had no idea the foreclosure was coming. I mean it's not like someone just shows up one day and kicks you out with no warning. At the very least, once you start not paying your mortgage you have to start thinking "I wonder how long I can do this?"

I agree with B2B. I mean if youre already living in a tent, you would think you would be willing ot move even if you are still in a tent in the next place.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Not to be political, but the current administration won't change that AT ALL.

Neither did the prior administration. :rolleyes

[JohnnyMarzetti]

You live next door to crachhouses. Or its in Detroit.

6 in one, half dozen the other.

Not true. You can buy foreclosure homes all across the Country.

[Blake]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/004i4rs9wd1JM/358x283.jpg?center=0,0


Gennadiy Tomashov rolls a cigarette in his tent at a tent city in Sacramento, California March 15, 2009. Tomashov lost his trucking job and has been homeless for eight months. Sacramento's tent city has seen an increase in population as unemployment numbers grow in the US.

1 day ago

from Reuters Pictures by REUTERS

why this lazy bum hasn't gotten off his ass and taken a call center job in North Dakota is beyond me.

[Blue Jew]

Will we be forced to strip our clothes and be placed in the shower with 100 others?

[Tonto]

can tonto sleep in pale face tent
or does tonto need pale face reservation?

[BacktoBasics]

Have you ever tried to get a job without an address or phone number to list on the fucking resume or application?This is the only reasonable argument I've seen so far. The answer is to get a PO box and state that you're looking to relocate.

[Blake]

This is the only reasonable argument I've seen so far.

Probably because it's a pointless debate.

There are lazy asses and non-lazy asses living in these tents. For you to lump them all in the lazy ass category is a pretty nice job of being ignorant.

[BacktoBasics]

Probably because it's a pointless debate.

There are lazy asses and non-lazy asses living in these tents. For you to lump them all in the lazy ass category is a pretty nice job of being ignorant.I thinks it probably more ignorant to assume a rational "non-lazy" adult would be relegated to tent living.

I could excuse a week hell even a month but there is no excuse for a functional adult to live in a tent for 8 month or two years or half of their adult life.

Good job feeding the fire.

Seriously. You expect there to be some kind of hierarchy within the tent people.

"yeah yeah the slums are over on the North end of the park and the good tent neighborhoods are over here on the South". :rolleyes

[Extra Stout]

Seriously. You expect there to be some kind of hierarchy within the tent people.

"yeah yeah the slums are over on the North end of the park and the good tent neighborhoods are over here on the South". :rolleyes
There is a hierarchy among the homeless I've worked with. The transient homeless, the ones who try to find work, the ones who basically behave, get to stay under the elevated freeway, with some protection from the rain, and some soft straw to sleep on. The drug addicts, the bums, the ones who are violent and who steal, don't get to stay there. The other homeless kick them out. They have to stay in the overgrown park on the other side of the courthouse, or in a place, under another overpass, that floods whenever it rains.

[BacktoBasics]

There is a hierarchy among the homeless I've worked with. The transient homeless, the ones who try to find work, the ones who basically behave, get to stay under the elevated freeway, with some protection from the rain, and some soft straw to sleep on. The drug addicts, the bums, the ones who are violent and who steal, don't get to stay there. The other homeless kick them out. They have to stay in the overgrown park on the other side of the courthouse, or in a place, under another overpass, that floods whenever it rains.
None of them should be homeless long enough to congregate in masses large enough to delegate space and structure.

[Extra Stout]

None of them should be homeless long enough to congregate in masses large enough to delegate space and structure.
Sometimes objective reality fails to match up with your ideology.

[BacktoBasics]

Sometimes objective reality fails to match up with your ideology.That's pretty much the entire point of my thread. The reality is that we shouldn't feel sorry for or make provisions for these people who are fully capable of seeking employment.

[angel_luv]

So, the people in tents have wireless internet access to read this thread with?
:)

[BacktoBasics]

So, the people in tents have wireless internet access to read this thread with?
:):rolleyes They have free internet access at nearly every public library.

[peewee's lovechild]

:rolleyes They have free internet access at nearly every public library.

All public libraries in San Antonio.

[Extra Stout]

That's pretty much the entire point of my thread. The reality is that we shouldn't feel sorry for or make provisions for these people who are fully capable of seeking employment.
There are some homeless who don't want to be helped and don't want to work. There are some looking for a handout. There are some who are whacked out on drugs. There are some who are down on their luck who get back on their feet with a little help. There are some who have mental problems. There are some who work and make decent money, but choose to remain homeless and give some of their money to their friends so they can get back on their feet.

You choose to generalize. Probably what it amounts to is that you really just don't care and don't want to be bothered about it. Their being homeless is not your problem. Screw them.

[peewee's lovechild]

There are some homeless who don't want to be helped and don't want to work. There are some looking for a handout. There are some who are whacked out on drugs. There are some who are down on their luck who get back on their feet with a little help. There are some who have mental problems. There are some who work and make decent money, but choose to remain homeless and give some of their money to their friends so they can get back on their feet.

You choose to generalize. Probably what it amounts to is that you really just don't care and don't want to be bothered about it. Their being homeless is not your problem. Screw them.


Hey, how about if we put a fence around Kansas and put all the homless people there?

[mrsmaalox]

But then they have to go all the way to a library?? Shit, in El Paso all they have to do is walk outside! They really have no excuse there. Wait, no laptop? :bang

http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=28499


El Paso, Texas Launches Digital-Inclusion Initiative with Cisco Wireless Mesh


NetworkWEBWIRE – Tuesday, March 06, 2007
Cisco® today announced that the city of El Paso, Texas is deploying Cisco’s wireless mesh solution for an outdoor wireless network that will help improve government efficiencies and provide Internet access and application delivery to citizens and businesses.

The new wireless mesh network is part of the Digital El Paso Project, a strategic collaboration between the city, county, El Paso Independent School District and the city Housing Authority, which seeks to revitalize El Paso’s downtown area and bring universal Internet access and services to underserved citizens, school children, public housing residents and small businesses.

With its proximity to the U.S./Mexican border, El Paso is a diverse city that serves a largely Mexican-American population of 700,000 in its 1,013 square miles. The new outdoor wireless mesh network will help level the playing field for underserved citizens and businesses in El Paso by providing digital inclusion, spurring economic development and bridging the educational gap that exists for many of the El Paso Independent School District’s students.

"The City is excited to be a partner in the Digital El Paso initiative" said Joyce Wilson, City Manager for the City of El Paso. "This is an important ingredient to our downtown redevelopment efforts, as well as a vehicle to engage an underserved residential community by providing Internet access and connectivity and thus reducing the digital divide that now exists in our lower income neighborhoods"

"The Digital El Paso project has the potential to significantly improve the lives of our citizens" said El Paso County Judge, Anthony Cobos. "Our ultimate goal is to make El Paso the most connected county on the U.S./Mexican border and the digital El Paso wireless network is a critical step in achieving this goal"

To deliver El Paso’s new outdoor wireless mesh network, Cisco engaged partners Intel, Accela and Panasonic, as part of the Digital Communities Initiatives. Intel provided funding for the digital inclusion and wireless site surveys. Panasonic is providing laptops for the City’s field applications and Accela is providing its popular land management software for city inspection, permit and code compliance applications. The integrated, standards-based wireless mesh network will support voice, video and data services and will be managed from the County Courthouse as an extension of their existing wireless network. Coverage will include public areas, as well as parks, buildings and residences.

In addition to Internet access for City residents, school children and businesses, the City of El Paso will evaluate a wide range of applications for municipal and emergency services, infrastructure support and homeland security - all of which can streamline operations, reduce costs and further El Paso’s goal of becoming a truly, digital city.

"El Paso is part of the vanguard of cities discovering how outdoor wireless networks can both improve municipal operations and enhance the lives of its citizens" said Alan Cohen, vice president, mobility solutions for Cisco. "Cisco’s outdoor wireless solutions are the platform of choice for a wide range of cities and municipalities across the nation and around the world"

[BacktoBasics]

You choose to generalize. Probably what it amounts to is that you really just don't care and don't want to be bothered about it. Their being homeless is not your problem. Screw them.I care and quite frankly it pisses me off. It is my problem because "supposedly" portions of my paycheck help support their habits, whatever they may be.

YES. Screw them.

[BacktoBasics]

and ES I generalize because nearly all of them have the ability and resources to get out of that lifestyle. When the large majority suffer from the same "general" shortcomings a generalization is in fair order.

[angel_luv]

I won't argue that most of those folks could find some job- McDonalds and the like.
But all those people, as it has been pointed out, have no residence.
The job market is competitive enough. People without homes are simply not going to be on the top of the consideration list.

And while working at McDonalds etc generates some income, it is not enough for those people to get back on their feet.

Those people need help. I feel compassion for them.

[angel_luv]

I don't believe anyone in the core of their being truly wants to be homeless- even those who are so due to addictions.

No one starts off with the intention of making a mess of their lives.

[BacktoBasics]

I won't argue that most of those folks could find some job- McDonalds and the like.
But all those people, as it has been pointed out, have no residence.
The job market is competitive enough. People without homes are simply not going to be on the top of the consideration list.

And while working at McDonalds etc generates some income, it is not enough for those people to get back on their feet.

Those people need help. I feel compassion for them.
There are places that hire the homeless. They can also get a PO Box to avoid being disqualified (which is illegal, no?) for the job.

A small job at McDonalds would still allow them to qualify for assistance for food, housing and health.

[mrsmaalox]

I won't argue that most of those folks could find some job- McDonalds and the like.
But all those people, as it has been pointed out, have no residence.
The job market is competitive enough. People without homes are simply not going to be on the top of the consideration list.

And while working at McDonalds etc generates some income, it is not enough for those people to get back on their feet.

Those people need help. I feel compassion for them.

I would bet that there are many single moms providing food and shelter on a MacDonald's salary.

[CuckingFunt]

This is the only reasonable argument I've seen so far. The answer is to get a PO box and state that you're looking to relocate.

PO boxes aren't free.

[angel_luv]

There are places that hire the homeless. They can also get a PO Box to avoid being disqualified (which is illegal, no?) for the job.

A small job at McDonalds would still allow them to qualify for assistance for food, housing and health.

Easier to solve situations you yourself are not stuck in, isn't it?

This is a subject close to my heart because my sister was homeless for sometime.
Her situation was due to her addiction and her own choice, she refused to come home.
But I will never forget how I felt knowing my sister was on the street and was at the mercy of strangers.

All those people living in tents are someone's child, sibling, and someone's friend.

[Extra Stout]

and ES I generalize because nearly all of them have the ability and resources to get out of that lifestyle. When the large majority suffer from the same "general" shortcomings a generalization is in fair order.
I don't know what you base that on. I base my arguments on actually going down where the homeless people are, talking to them, singing with them, having meals with them, etc.

There's the guy with the heart of gold, who, when you talk to him, drifts in and out of lucidity. He keeps a job for a couple of months while his mind is together, then loses it.

There's the guy with the weird ticks who can't control his hands and gets his face all contorted.

There's the elderly lady in a wheelchair who believes she is the queen of Sweden.

(I don't think those last two are quite going to make it to the public library.)

There's the people who come out of the shadows, take the food, don't say a word to anyone, and disappear. They probably will never change their ways.

There's the couple with a baby who recently lost their home, who are there because the shelters are full. They'll be gone in a couple of weeks because somebody helps them find work and an apartment.

This last couple is the one you want to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. You think everyone is Ayn freaking Rand or something. Some people aren't that bright. Sometimes people are overwhelmed by their circumstances and just need a hand to help them get out of the mud. You would tell them about a job in Fargo freaking North Dakota, call them lazy freeloaders, and spit on them. Great.

[peewee's lovechild]

I still say we put a fence around Kansas and put all the undesirables there.

We could make them wear pinstripe attire as well.

[angel_luv]

I would bet that there are many single moms providing food and shelter on a MacDonald's salary.

Some of my closest friends are single moms.
Even the ones with college degrees and office type jobs, still struggle financially, and they are by no means irresponsible.

It is a challenge to provide for oneself financially in today's economy- all the more so a family.

I am not saying people should not try to help themselves, just that there seems to be a serious lack of compassion and understanding in this thread.



I still say we put a fence around Kansas and put all the undesirables there.

We could make them wear pinstripe attire as well.

Case in point.

[peewee's lovechild]

Case in point.

I see you understand sarcasm very well.

[mrsmaalox]

Some of my closest friends are single moms.
Even the ones with college degrees and office type jobs, still struggle financially, and they are by no means irresponsible.

It is a challenge to provide for oneself financially in today's economy- all the more so a family.

I am not saying people should not try to help themselves, just that there seems to be a serious lack of compassion and understanding in this thread.

Oh I'm not implying they aren't struggling. The majority of single moms struggle a lot no matter their job or education level. But they manage to survive and provide their kids a decent life.

[LockBeard]

If you are in Cali and can't find work yet you stay there anyways...

Starve and die off or get the fuck out. It's not that hard of a concept.


Although that kind fits perfectly into The United Nanny States. I'm sure you'll get some nice tax money that was stolen from other states to help you out ol' fella.

[peewee's lovechild]

Look, I think B2B has some plausible points, but it's also hard to argue against Stout.

But, I just think that we really need to be careful how and where we spend our resources right now. Okay, let's help some people. I'm fine with that. But, let's not help them perpetually.

I've always said that we should have a welfare program that lasts no more than two years. After the two years, we should just let them know that they can no longer be helped.

If they can't find a job in two years, while receiving benefits, then they just can't be helped.

Many people get stuck on receiving benefits and hand outs that they have no motivation to look for something better.

As for these tent people, B2B has a point. They didn't get this way overnight. This was gradual. They knew their situation was getting bad and that it would probably get real bad, real soon.

So, why didn't they pool their money and travel to another city in search for a job? There are other cities than Sacramento. There are other states other than California.

Fuck, there are people that travel from deep southern Mexico on nothing but the clothes on their backs and make it to the U.S. to make a living working on the fields.

Why can't these people do the same?

The answer, I think, is that they think that these menial jobs are below them. And, if that's how they think, why the hell should we care?

[peewee's lovechild]

If you are in Cali and can't find work yet you stay there anyways...

Starve and die off or get the fuck out. It's not that hard of a concept.


Right.

[angel_luv]

I've always said that we should have a welfare program that lasts no more than two years. After the two years, we should just let them know that they can no longer be helped.

If they can't find a job in two years, while receiving benefits, then they just can't be helped.


I agree with welfare being a temporary aid, although I am undecided as to how long the assistance should last.
I almost feel like it needs to be a case by case decision, but that would require at least some basic guidelines as well as the man power to oversee all the caseloads.

But then again, that could potentially create more good jobs.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't know what you base that on. I base my arguments on actually going down where the homeless people are, talking to them, singing with them, having meals with them, etc.

There's the guy with the heart of gold, who, when you talk to him, drifts in and out of lucidity. He keeps a job for a couple of months while his mind is together, then loses it.

There's the guy with the weird ticks who can't control his hands and gets his face all contorted.

There's the elderly lady in a wheelchair who believes she is the queen of Sweden.

(I don't think those last two are quite going to make it to the public library.)

There's the people who come out of the shadows, take the food, don't say a word to anyone, and disappear. They probably will never change their ways.

There's the couple with a baby who recently lost their home, who are there because the shelters are full. They'll be gone in a couple of weeks because somebody helps them find work and an apartment.

This last couple is the one you want to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. You think everyone is Ayn freaking Rand or something. Some people aren't that bright. Sometimes people are overwhelmed by their circumstances and just need a hand to help them get out of the mud. You would tell them about a job in Fargo freaking North Dakota, call them lazy freeloaders, and spit on them. Great.Some of those people you mentioned shouldn't be on the streets. They should be under a doctors care in a special facility for the mentally insane/challenged/unstable. I don't hold those people accountable but they aren't the norm.

I base my opinions or generalizations on family members that drift in and out of homelessness and by the few that we've hired. Then a large majority that my brother in laws church helps. I've been around quite a few homeless people.

[Extra Stout]

Fuck, there are people that travel from deep southern Mexico on nothing but the clothes on their backs and make it to the U.S. to make a living working on the fields.

Why can't these people do the same?

The answer, I think, is that they think that these menial jobs are below them. And, if that's how they think, why the hell should we care?
If somebody is presented with an actual opportunity, and turns it down because it is somehow "beneath" them, then my sympathy disappears. I mean, look, you're living under a bridge. Could you try on a little humility?

[BacktoBasics]

I agree with welfare being a temporary aid, although I am undecided as to how long the assistance should last.
I almost feel like it needs to be a case by case decision, but that would require at least some basic guidelines as well as the man power to oversee all the caseloads.

But then again, that could potentially create more good jobs.case by case would be too tough the general public can't deal with having to rationally assess each individual situation. They need black and white to function.

[peewee's lovechild]

I almost feel like it needs to be a case by case decision, but that would require at least some basic guidelines as well as the man power to oversee all the caseloads.

Do you have any idea all the red tape that would create?

A case by case scenario would be disatrous for our already bloated and inept government.

[angel_luv]

Do you have any idea all the red tape that would create?

A case by case scenario would be disatrous for our already bloated and inept government.

I agree.

Still it is unfortunate because cases do vary and sometimes exceptions ought to be made.

[peewee's lovechild]

If somebody is presented with an actual opportunity, and turns it down because it is somehow "beneath" them, then my sympathy disappears. I mean, look, you're living under a bridge. Could you try on a little humility?

While I agree with you, the only problem I have with this post is that you started off with "if somebody is presented with an actual opportunity" . . .

Why should we have to present these people with an opportunity? Why can't they search for an opportunity?

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the sense of entitlement that most American have these days. Nothing is owed to you. Not a god damn thing.

And, it's hard for me to feel sorry for people who waste away expecting a hand out to be given to them.

I'm sorry, but I come from a background where we went out and worked for what we needed. As a kid we traveled through most of the United States looking for work and getting our money.

These people, excluding the mental cases and junkies (which is a whole other conversation), are just being extremely lazy or too proud to do the work that's actually available for them.

[Blake]

and ES I generalize because nearly all of them have the ability and resources to get out of that lifestyle.

source?

[BacktoBasics]

source?A source for what? That most have opportunity or that most are lazy pieces of shit?

[Blake]

PO boxes aren't free.

then get a job so you can afford one

[Blake]

A source for what? That most have opportunity or that most are lazy pieces of shit?

That "most have the ability and the resource to get out of that lifestyle"

[Blake]

case by case would be too tough the general public can't deal with having to rationally assess each individual situation. They need black and white to function.

right, so let's just lump them all together as lazy.

much easier.

[BacktoBasics]

That "most have the ability and the resource to get out of that lifestyle" Ok.

http://www.hud.gov/homeless/hmlsagen.cfm

If You Are Homeless...

If you are homeless, help is available! HUD, along with many other federal agencies, funds programs to help the homeless. These programs are managed by local organizations that provide a range of services, including shelter, food, counseling, and jobs skills programs. So start by contacting a homeless assistance agency in your area.

Here is whats available state to state.

http://www.hud.gov/homeless/hmlsagen.cfm

For vets

http://www1.va.gov/homeless/

VA offers a wide array of special programs and initiatives specifically designed to help homeless veterans live as self-sufficiently and independently as possible. In fact,VA is the only Federal agency that provides substantial hands-on assistance directly to homeless persons. Although limited to veterans and their dependents, VA's major homeless-specific programs constitute the largest integrated network of homeless treatment and assistance services in the country.

VA's specialized homeless veterans treatment programs have grown and developed since they were first authorized in 1987. The programs strive to offer a continuum of services that include:

* aggressive outreach to those veterans living on streets and in shelters who otherwise would not seek assistance;
* clinical assessment and referral to needed medical treatment for physical and psychiatric disorders, including substance abuse;
* long-term sheltered transitional assistance, case management, and rehabilitation;
* employment assistance and linkage with available income supports; and
* supported permanent housing.



Education for Homeless Children and Youths Grants for State and Local Activities

http://www.ed.gov/programs/homeless/resources.html

Here is a homelessness resource center

http://www.nrchmi.samhsa.gov/Default.aspx

If I were to have the time I could have tripled the list of available resources that are designed to help the ones that need it most.

[BacktoBasics]

right, so let's just lump them all together as lazy.

much easier.See my post above for a small list of available resources.

[BacktoBasics]

Look at this impressive list of assistance.


http://www.usich.gov/library/publications/FamilyInventory_Mar2008.pdf

and wow you can even locate a runaway youth shelter state by state.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/fysb/content/youthdivision/programs/locate.htm

They even have a coalition

Welcome to the online Directory of Homeless & Housing Advocacy Coalitions!

The organizations listed in this directory are primarily homeless and housing advocacy coalitions. This includes groups working on the statewide and local (community or county) level. National organizations are included here but are also listed separately in the Directory of National Homeless & Housing Organizations. An Online Directory of Local Homeless Service Organizations is also available.


but but but there is no help. Lets all feel sorry for them.

[Blake]

Look at this impressive list of assistance.

but but but there is no help. Lets all feel sorry for them.

That is a very impressive list of shelters!

So why then would someone choose to live in a tent where have to take a crap behind a tree when they could get a hot meal, a roof and assistance from a homeless shelter?


....Former car salesman Corvin and his wife Tena are among the newest residents of the tent city.

The couple, who are in their fifties, lost their home and jobs around the same time.

With homeless shelters full in Sacramento, they had little choice but to use what savings they had left to buy a tent.......

http://www.dailymarkets.com/economy/2009/03/06/pictures-of-sacramentos-tent-city-unfiltered-and-unspun/

[BacktoBasics]

TIFBS


With homeless shelters full in Sacramento, they had little choice but to use what savings they had left to buy a tent......

Should have used that money for a bus to a town with a shelter.

P.S. There is assistance for people locating shelters too.

[Blake]

TIFBS



Should have used that money for a bus to a town with a shelter.

P.S. There is assistance for people locating shelters too.

so because you have an obvious disconnect from the real world it's FBS?

[BacktoBasics]

so because you have an obvious disconnect from the real world it's FBS?
Look you're excusing being homeless for an extended period of time. For any and all reasons. Dude was a fucking car salesman for fucks sake. I don't care how bad the economy and auto world is this guy could find a sales job at a million locations across this country. He chose to live in a tent in a park. Now if this guy was homeless for a week or a month I'd understand but a large portion of these people are homeless indefinitely. He could have fucking begged for money to get where a shelter has beds.

I would have. If I had absolutely nothing I'd beg for enough to get my wife and I into a shelter. A former co-worker probably would have been more than happy to spot him a 50 or 100 to get a ride to a shelter.

There is no fucking excuse outside of being retarded to not exercise some fucking resourcefulness in finding shelter. No fucking excuse with all the available resources free of fucking charge to be relegated to a god damn tent. Stop justifying the behavior of the lazy. Its fucking pathetic.

There is probably no less than 30 government workers playing solitaire at their desks just waiting for a turd like this to walk in so they can set him up.

[BacktoBasics]

The people that are truly disconnected from the real world are the people that think these tent city people and others like them aren't given the resources and opportunity to obtain a better lifestyle. A week a month whatever.....I can understand that an initial blow could put someone on the street. As a lifestyle. NO FUCKING WAY.

Very few people should be forced to live like this with no hope in site and those people probably shouldn't be out in the general public.

[Melmart1]

Um, yes, you CAN be evicted overnight due to a foreclosure ... renters are facing this all the time.


"Once a foreclosure occurs, those renters are being evicted without virtually any notice, despite the fact that they have paid their monthly rental bills every month without any interruptions whatsoever," says Paul Leonard, who heads California's Center for Responsible Lending.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88251859

Here is a single mom who lost her job and was in a shelter for 7 months: http://housingdoom.com/2009/03/09/40-of-people-facing-foreclosure-evictions-are-renters/

You think this woman and others like her WANT to be homeless? And because it took 7 months you think that she didn't pull herself up by her bootstraps? PUHLEEZE. It must be nice to be in your fixed mortgage ivory tower looking down on others without knowing their story or what they have been through :rolleyes

And a PO box alone will not get you a job ... you need a phone number. You are homeless, your landline is gone and you probably don't have a cell phone, and even if you did ... where the fuck are you going to charge it?

Look, do I think some homeless don't want to help themselves? Absolutely. But I have worked with homeless people before ... when I worked at the NW AIDS Foundation in college. Trust me, the majority don't want to be homeless and try to get things right, but there is a societal stigma against people with AIDS, particularly gay men w/ HIV or AIDS like many of these people were. Same thing with mentally ill citizens (particularly war veterans) who make up a significant percentage of homeless people. And then there are people like the lady in the video. She could have easily been a 'tent person' but luckily for her the shelters were not full. What if they had been? Would you have snubbed your nose at her?

[Blake]

Stop justifying the behavior of the lazy. Its fucking pathetic.

You lumping all of these people into a lazy category is lazy.

Don't worry, I won't try to justify your lazy behavior.

[BacktoBasics]

I understand being homeless for a short term. 7 months is a long time. Did she get a job right away and save up for 7 months or did she live in a shelter for 7 months while she cherry picked for a job? Not a lot of info in that 2 minute segment of heroism.

I've been homeless before. I've had nothing and for two weeks I lived out of my truck after living two weeks in my grandmothers garage. I've had no phone no permanent address. I found a way to not be like that. Not live like that and took whatever I could get and went from there. I'm not sitting up in some ivory tower casting shame on the homeless but I sure as shit think that the majority don't do whats necessary to get out.

Especially for the people who are "stuck" in a world of homelessness and then cry about a lack of resources. This "stigma" you talk of pertaining to the homeless is addressed within these programs. They have food, shelter and job training all geared twords beating those stigmas. You have to fucking want it though.

[BacktoBasics]

You lumping all of these people into a lazy category is lazy.

Don't worry, I won't try to justify your lazy behavior.Fair enough.

Judging by my past experiences with these people I'd say 75% are more than capable of finding a way out if they really wanted it. 15% aren't mentally capable of doing that and might in fact remain homeless but are possibly not legally retarded. 10% should be institutionalized and cared for.

My wife and I both have served community service at kitchens. My wife has worked in shelters. Neither of us feel sorry for a large portion of these people.

[Melmart1]

B2B, have you ever tried to get into these programs? The waiting list (particularly in this economy) can be days, weeks and many times months long.

You can't base everyone's homeless experience on your own. Yeah, seven months is a long time but what if she only had a p/t job and got paid say $90 a week? How long before she can save up for first/last month's rent? Several weeks I would say, especially since some of that $90 had to go to food and other necessities. And let's not forget that she would still have to qualify for a rental agreement, which means the rent can't be more than 1/3 or so of her p/t mcdonald's pay. And deposits on electricity and water, unless she was lucky enough to find the rare all bills paid place.

There are so many ways this could have taken 7 months that I find it impossible to judge her. I am just thankful she got out of it. Not everyone does. Not everyone can. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps? Great ... but what if you have no boots?

[Milton.]

My wife and I both have served community service at kitchens. My wife has worked in shelters. Neither of us feel sorry for a large portion of these people.

Then why serve if you don't give a damn? That doesn't make any sense at all. That is what I was told.

[BacktoBasics]

B2B, have you ever tried to get into these programs? The waiting list (particularly in this economy) can be days, weeks and many times months long.

You can't base everyone's homeless experience on your own. Yeah, seven months is a long time but what if she only had a p/t job and got paid say $90 a week? How long before she can save up for first/last month's rent? Several weeks I would say, especially since some of that $90 had to go to food and other necessities. And let's not forget that she would still have to qualify for a rental agreement, which means the rent can't be more than 1/3 or so of her p/t mcdonald's pay. And deposits on electricity and water, unless she was lucky enough to find the rare all bills paid place.

There are so many ways this could have taken 7 months that I find it impossible to judge her. I am just thankful she got out of it. Not everyone does. Not everyone can. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps? Great ... but what if you have no boots?As a matter of fact I have partook in these available programs. My wife and I aren't legally married. We needed health care for our boy. Daycare for her to find a job and since she had no job she qualified for food stamps and an entire host of programs.

The food stamps took about a week. (we did not apply for emergency stamps or it would have been sooner) 320 dollars a month worth.

Secured health care for my unemployed wife and son in less than 3 days.

Had childcare available if needed for 3 dollars a day up to 7 hours a day and lined that up in less than a week.

This is why I have no sympathy for most of these people. They just don't care enough to go the extra mile for the help. The red tape isn't what you make it out to be. Its not like trying to qualify for college grant money.

I totally understand and have sympathy if that lady above worked while she was in the shelter. I wholeheartedly support her.


Then why serve if you don't give a damn? That doesn't make any sense at all. That is what I was told.Probation.

[angel_luv]

B2B, have you ever tried to get into these programs? The waiting list (particularly in this economy) can be days, weeks and many times months long.

You can't base everyone's homeless experience on your own. Yeah, seven months is a long time but what if she only had a p/t job and got paid say $90 a week? How long before she can save up for first/last month's rent? Several weeks I would say, especially since some of that $90 had to go to food and other necessities. And let's not forget that she would still have to qualify for a rental agreement, which means the rent can't be more than 1/3 or so of her p/t mcdonald's pay. And deposits on electricity and water, unless she was lucky enough to find the rare all bills paid place.

There are so many ways this could have taken 7 months that I find it impossible to judge her. I am just thankful she got out of it. Not everyone does. Not everyone can. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps? Great ... but what if you have no boots?


Well said.

[BacktoBasics]

Well said.There is little basis for her red tape argument. These programs take very little to get involved in.

[Melmart1]

There is little basis for her red tape argument. These programs take very little to get involved in.

I wasn't referring to food stamps or health care so much as housing. Trying to qualify for and get into public housing or discounted housing for the poor is very hard to do. Food stamps can be gotten in a week, so you won't starve. But you are still homeless.

[BacktoBasics]

I wasn't referring to food stamps or health care so much as housing. Trying to qualify for and get into public housing or discounted housing for the poor is very hard to do. Food stamps can be gotten in a week, so you won't starve. But you are still homeless.Free takes time I agree. When I met my wife her brother was living in income controlled housing. He had a two bedroom two bathroom for about 450. They do single bedroom single bath apartments all the way down to 125 a month at the time. There were vacancies and to be honest I didn't even know they were income controlled. It was a nice complex. Corpus has six complexes like that and we're a small city. Fill out an application and move in right away just like a normal complex. No waiting periods. Just produce whatever paycheck stub you have. Little to no deposit required.

I agree it takes work but between the food stamps and the shelter along with the available free training I'm certain they can find a way out in a 4-6 month time period and probably less than that.

The majority of these people aren't seeking help. Too busy feeling sorry for themselves.

[ididnotnothat]

Standing in line marking time, waiting for the welfare dime
'Cause they can't buy a job
B2B hurries by as he catches the poor ladies' eyes
Just for fun he says "get a job"


That's just the way it is
Some things will never change
That's just the way it is
Ah, but don't you believe them

[BacktoBasics]

http://www.apartmentsmart.com/forrent/property_id/A900207/property_detail.asp

Someone feel like calling for prices. Income controlled apartments in my area. They're everywhere. Specially designed for the McDonalds crowd.

[BacktoBasics]

Look at these numbers to qualify. Well below poverty level for multiple persons.
● Your income must be below these income levels for this property*.

Income Qualification Table
1 Person $16,850

2 Persons $19,300

3 Persons $21,700

4 Persons $24,100

5 Persons $26,050

6 Persons $27,950

[CuckingFunt]

TIFBS



Should have used that money for a bus to a town with a shelter.

P.S. There is assistance for people locating shelters too.

If "what little savings they had left" bought them a tent, getting on a bus wasn't an option.

I appreciate the point you're trying to make, and understand the source of your frustration. I genuinely do. But it simply isn't as easy as you seem to think to get yourself out of such a situation. It just doesn't work that way.

The very real fact of the matter is that our system of welfare and assistance is so completely fucked, from top to bottom, than when you reach a certain level of poverty and disadvantage (which, incidentally, can happen a hell of a lot faster than people would assume), it becomes increasingly difficult to take advantage of the programs and services that are intended to help you. To assume that walking up to city hall with your hand out is enough to get something is naive to the point of ignorant. To assume that compounding an already bad situation by jumping on a bus and moving to a strange city in which you have absolutely zero support network is a viable option for anyone (I certainly wouldn't do it, especially since most of the services I would hope to take advantage of require established local history) is even more so.

[CuckingFunt]

The people that are truly disconnected from the real world are the people that think these tent city people and others like them aren't given the resources and opportunity to obtain a better lifestyle. A week a month whatever.....I can understand that an initial blow could put someone on the street. As a lifestyle. NO FUCKING WAY.

Very few people should be forced to live like this with no hope in site and those people probably shouldn't be out in the general public.

The longer you're jobless and homeless, the further removed you are from legally established address/employment history, the harder it becomes to get out of that situation. That's just a fucking fact.

[CuckingFunt]

Free takes time I agree. When I met my wife her brother was living in income controlled housing. He had a two bedroom two bathroom for about 450. They do single bedroom single bath apartments all the way down to 125 a month at the time. There were vacancies and to be honest I didn't even know they were income controlled. It was a nice complex. Corpus has six complexes like that and we're a small city. Fill out an application and move in right away just like a normal complex. No waiting periods. Just produce whatever paycheck stub you have. Little to no deposit required.

I agree it takes work but between the food stamps and the shelter along with the available free training I'm certain they can find a way out in a 4-6 month time period and probably less than that.

The majority of these people aren't seeking help. Too busy feeling sorry for themselves.

As of two years ago (a little less, actually) when I was working in property management in San Joaquin County (directly south of Sacramento County), the waiting list for the Section 8 program was over two years. The waiting list for emergency Section 8 housing was about two months.

Furthermore, many of the applicants we had who were in the Section 8 program, emergency or no, had to be rejected because they didn't come close to meeting our application standards. Establishing residency, and I know this for a fact from having done this for a living for ten years, is EXTREMELY difficult when you are lacking either current employment or current residency. Especially when, as I suspect is the case now given the number of people who are downsizing and moving out of their homes, property managers likely have no shortage of applications from people who do have more extensive proof of income and rental references and are, therefore, more qualified applicants. Renting an apartment when you're homeless and jobless requires that you find someone who has a property available and ready to move in, is willing to take a chance on an unqualified applicant, and is patient enough to get in touch with someone who likely doesn't have a phone of their own to arrange showings and a rental agreement signing.

[exstatic]

then get a job so you can afford one

Chicken, egg. You need the PO Box to get the job.

[Blake]

Chicken, egg. You need the PO Box to get the job.

so get a job to get the p.o. box, so that you CAN get a job.

not sure what's so hard to grasp about that

[JoeChalupa]

If "what little savings they had left" bought them a tent, getting on a bus wasn't an option.

I appreciate the point you're trying to make, and understand the source of your frustration. I genuinely do. But it simply isn't as easy as you seem to think to get yourself out of such a situation. It just doesn't work that way.

The very real fact of the matter is that our system of welfare and assistance is so completely fucked, from top to bottom, than when you reach a certain level of poverty and disadvantage (which, incidentally, can happen a hell of a lot faster than people would assume), it becomes increasingly difficult to take advantage of the programs and services that are intended to help you. To assume that walking up to city hall with your hand out is enough to get something is naive to the point of ignorant. To assume that compounding an already bad situation by jumping on a bus and moving to a strange city in which you have absolutely zero support network is a viable option for anyone (I certainly wouldn't do it, especially since most of the services I would hope to take advantage of require established local history) is even more so.

Well said. :tu

[peewee's lovechild]

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=56550&catid=2


Cal Expo Seen as Temporary Answer to Tent City



SACRAMENTO, CA - Sacramento's "tent city" along the American River will be gone in a few weeks, Mayor Kevin Johnson announced Thursday afternoon.

That doesn't mean the estimated 150 people who've set up camp there will be without a place to stay. The temporary solution reached by a taskforce created by the mayor is to allow the residents to stay at Cal Expo's seasonal shelter.

Johnson said extra beds have been found, daily shelter hours will be extended and the facility will now stay open to the end of June. An area for some tents to set up temporarily at Cal Expo will be part of the transition.

"They are people out there and we have to do what we need to do to make sure they have the respect and dignity they deserve," Johnson said. "And it's a very complicated issue. We all understand this."

The tent city captured the national spotlight recently when Oprah Winfrey profiled it on her daily show.

The taskforce is made up of several residents of the encampment, homeless advocates, property owners and city officials.

The taskforce is slated to make its recommendations to the Sacramento City Council next Tuesday.


News10/KXTV
Copyright 2009 / All Rights Reserved

[BacktoBasics]

but but but I thought they were going to be alienated for life.

[Taco]

xCtn_F4JCig

They need an EDAR

http://www.takepart.com/blog/tag/edar/