Too much depth?

[i have bone spurs]

I've been lurking on this board for at least 4 years and usually I don't feel the need to post, but I've had a thought regarding Pop's coaching.

I realise a lot of posters have been critical of Pop's coaching recently, but I believe Pop is being forced to coach this way due to the depth of this team. Each year we usually have a group of players who are caught in the 'dog house', or simply aren't rotational players.

This year has been unprecedented in a way because no one is staying put at the end of the bench;

*Mason and Hill have proven exceeded expectations.
*Bonner has completely turned it around for the most part.
*Oberto seemed to be on the outside but appears to be coming back.
*Udoka has really played a lot better lately.
*Hairston showed a lot during his stint during the rodeo road trip.
*Vaughn even showed solid play in a few spot minutes.
*Gooden will almost definitely have a spot.

I believe Pop has realised that he has a fairly sizeable arsenal of players at his disposal for the playoffs. I understand the losses becoming a bit frustrated, but it seems to me like Pop is making attempts to play everybody on the roster so the depth can be useful for the playoffs. Not to mention easing the injury situation.

[Spursfan092120]

Interesting theory and I hope you're right. I've thought about this before. With Gooden, Oberto, Thomas, and Bonner as players to play alongside Timmy, it's definitely the most depth we've had at the Center position in a LONG time. I think Oberto's PT will be cut come playoff time, and hopefully Gooden will get more time. I'm just worried that he's not getting more time now, to prepare himself for the playoffs.

[Manufan909]

Great theory, I never looked at it that way. Hope Ime goes back to sucking, so Pop is forced to use Bowen and Hairston. If Ime continues to get 10-15 mins a game, Pop should at least start resting Fin. I'm not saying he should be benched, but no more 25+ mins unless he's hot are stellar on D(not for him, but in general).

And I hope Pop can find a healthy rotation for 4 bigs this POs, expecially if the Spurs meet Utah, the Rockets, Lakers, or Boston in the POs. I'd like Timmy to get 35, KT to get 20, Bonner to get 20, and Gooden to get 21. If Matt falters, then Fab can get 15, and split the rest between KT and Gooden.

[spursfaninla]

Oberto does not see daylight if tim plays this game.

We have so much depth because, prior to gooden, our bigs were 1) not that big, 2) not great rebounders, or 3) not that athletic.

Bonner could shoot the 3 (until recently). Thomas could play interior d and shoot the midrange. Oberto...well, he has been lost in the shuffle, but in theory he is there to rebound and play physical d, while getting an occasional garbage basket (or a pass from manu).

With gooden, we have a bigger, athletic big who can score. If he can actually defend athletic bigs, he should get more minutes than another other big besides duncan. If bonner get his outside shot back, he can have backup minutes, paired with Thomas.

[Darkwaters]

I've been lurking on this board for at least 4 years

3 1/2 years actually. But I won't hold that against you. :p:

[raspsa]

Allocating playing time is a real challenge. looks like Pop is keeping his options open as to who he will depend on come the playoffs. He's giving everyone enough PT to keep from getting rusty and hopefully in shape to contribute should they be called upon.

[timtonymanu]

you've got a point. and ive thought about this before too. no one in the Spurs' roster is always useless to the team.

There's the big 3.

Mason and Hill have shown alot more than expected and are both starter material.

Finley is alot better than last year and is still a great role player.

Bonner came out of nowhere with his 3 pt shooting and confidence although he's in a slump right now.

KT has been very consistent this year.

Bowen has lost a step but is still one of the best defenders today.

Udoka has finally stepped up.

Oberto can still contribute. Also Vaughn.

Gooden is obviously a backup PF to Duncan.

Hairston has shown alot of skills with little playing time.

[i have bone spurs]

3 1/2 years actually. But I won't hold that against you. :p:

Maths and time have never been my strong suit.:downspin:

[i have bone spurs]

With so many players proving that they deserve some minutes, it will really make for an interesting offseason. The Spurs will have a lot of choices to make.

[Solid D]

I believe Pop is still experimenting with combinations of players. He normally isn't given to this sort of thing so late in the regular season. With the injuries to Ginobili and Duncan, however, and the advanced learning curve of new players such as George Hill and Drew Gooden, questions about health and options have caused Pop to look at combinations.

Pop has played Ime at 3 different positions in the past several weeks (2,3 and 4). Finley has done this in the past. At least the coaching staff have a guy, in Udoka, who seems to know the plays for each position and can execute smoothly both offensively and defensively in multiple positions. They just need him to shoot and score with more consistency while Manu is out. If Gooden can just learn at a faster rate, the Spurs will be pretty strong in late April & May.

[MI21]

I'm not sure there is such a thing as to much depth, but there is certainly such a thing as to big of a rotation. It's almost impossible for Pop to get a proper rotation happening with all the injuries though.

[Solid D]

I'm not sure there is such a thing as to much depth, but there is certainly such a thing as to big of a rotation. It's almost impossible for Pop to get a proper rotation happening with all the injuries though.

Yeah, I concur MI21. Playing more than 10 players a minimum of 10 minutes/game is difficult to do and win. What is the best indicator of "true depth"? When a team has 2 or 3 of it's key players go down to injury.

[Chieflion]

Spurs should just set a fixed rotation once Ginobili comes back.

As usual, Ginobili will be our sixth man and our starting line-up is pretty much set. The minutes and players on the floor is the problem. I just hope we do not run small ball during the playoffs, that would be a disaster.

Depth can be settled in the off season for 2010 picks.

[urunobili]

At least the coaching staff have a guy, in Udoka, who seems to know the plays for each position and can execute smoothly both offensively and defensively in multiple positions.

sorry but if i take this out of context... :rolleyes:rolleyes I lol'd

[Solid D]

If Manu is not injured, Udoka would be sitting on the pine. Manu is injured, thus, either Hairston or Ime needed to step in and provide defense, scoring and efficiency. Hairston isn't fully up to speed playing the wing and defending the way Pop needs it to be. Ime has more experience and is able to play with decent acuity whereever he is needed.

I'm not an Ime lover...I just notice that he is tough-minded defensively, knows where to go playing multiple positions, he can pass and he can score out on the floor on any given night (not just jump and dunk). His 7 quick points and defense helped push the Spurs into their 24-8 run during the middle portion of the game.

[Manufan909]

Instead of making a new thread for my dream PO depth chart, I'm just gonna give my opinion here.

Tony/GH(hope Pop only has Mason here if Hill folds under the pressure)
Mason/Manu
Bowen/Fin/Hairston(this is my biggest pipe dream, I don't want Fin to fad in the POs, but I also don't want him getting more than 5 mins on Bowen)
Tim/Gooden
Bonner/KT/Fab(Fab could start if his game last night is what we can expect from now on, but I wouldn't mind KT if Bonner can't average 43% from deep in the POs)

And it doesn't affects the POs, but if Ian heals on time, I would like him to be active in place of Ime or Fab for garbage time, and maybe the last few games that won't affect standings. I bet there will be at least 4, as long as the Spurs never slip to 3rd.

And to all posters, who would be Tims best complement in the playoffs, Fab(playing like PO 07), KT(this season post asg), Bonner(if he goes back to shooting around 44% from 3, and continues hitting the boards and playing D like he has lately), or Gooden(going with the theory he can play and add to the team like he did againt Houston, his PER 40 was nuts in that game IIRC)?

I'd say Bonner, but i need to see his 3 shooting come back in the next few games, 5-24 from the past 5 games is horrible. Even though he is hitting the boards alot better, it won't be enough. Fab from 07 defending Gasol would be nice. KT and Gooden woul be my last choices.

[rayray2k8]

not a bad post for a noob.

[xtremesteven33]

Oberto/Thomas
Duncan/Gooden/Bonner
Bowen/Finley
Mason/Ginobili
Parker/Hill


thats a championship rotation.

[timvp]

If Manu is not injured, Udoka would be sitting on the pine. Manu is injured, thus, either Hairston or Ime needed to step in and provide defense, scoring and efficiency. Hairston isn't fully up to speed playing the wing and defending the way Pop needs it to be. Ime has more experience and is able to play with decent acuity whereever he is needed.

I'm not an Ime lover...I just notice that he is tough-minded defensively, knows where to go playing multiple positions, he can pass and he can score out on the floor on any given night (not just jump and dunk). His 7 quick points and defense helped push the Spurs into their 24-8 run during the middle portion of the game.Udoka really does know the defense and his toughness no doubt makes him a Pop favorite. If Pop had it his way and Udoka played with any consistency earlier in the season, Udoka would have been the starting small forward all year.

However, I worry about Udoka's shortcomings coming back to hurt the Spurs in the playoffs if he's given any type of extended role. His mobility out on the perimeter defensively has dropped to the point where Finley moves his feet better. Offensively, he really struggles to figure out what shots are his. You can sometimes see him struggling with whether or not he should shoot or pass. It's a shame because his ball fake off the catch is probably the best on the team ... he just hasn't figured out how to piece it all together. Nowadays, the best hope is that he's hot and can just shoot whenever he's open.

Udoka as a deep reserve who plays spot minutes could be useful in the playoffs. As a small ball four, he's physical enough and rebounds well enough to do a decent job. Even at small forward, he can do well given the right matchup defensively and if he's shooting well offensively -- like we saw last year against the Hornets.

[Agloco]

Maths and time have never been my strong suit.:downspin:

And Irish to boot!!!!!:toast

[Morg1411]

Oberto/Thomas
Duncan/Gooden/Bonner
Bowen/Finley
Mason/Ginobili
Parker/Hill


thats a championship rotation.

I like this one, though I'd flip Bowen/Finley to have Finley start. Get some good shotting going and then bring in Bowen for defense through the latter stretch of the first half, then rotate them about for the second half as needed for offense/defensive purposes.

[Trimble87]

There has been a lot of complaint recently about not playing Bowen enough, or playing Udoka too much, or not playing Hill at the backup point... And I really dont understand the concern here.

From what I have seen this season Bowen has completely lost a step on the defensive end, he is still a nuiscence out there but he no longer can go toe to toe with Kobe and Lebron 1 on 1. His go-to shot, the 3 in the corner, has been incredibly inconsistent. He definitely deserves a spot in the lineup, but he is not a starter anymore.

As for Udoka, he isnt going to fill up the stat sheets, and he doesent have the quickness needed to guard the other teams best player. But he hits his defensive assignments and is knocking down his open shots. As far as leading the bench in minutes... who else is going to? Our bench guys right now are Gooden Thomas Hill and Udoka... Hill has been as much a liability as anyone else on the team, and he(expectedly) is still making those rookie mistakes. Gooden is still recovering form his groin injury and hasnt been with the team but 2 games now. And Thomas, as great as hes been for us off the bench, is a situational role player. He comes in when we need to stop the other teams bigs and Duncan needs a rest. Harriston showed me alot with his limited minutes, but hes not going to play in the playoffs... so there is no reason to give him minutes now.

Once we get Manu back and healthy, and get Gooden situated into the lineup things will of course be much different. But for the time being I dont think it has as much to do with Pop being "CIA Pop" as him doing the best with whats available.