Don't expect Manu to play Monday

[Kori Ellis]

Spurs notebook: On mend, Ginobili hopeful vs. Wolves
Web Posted: 03/13/2005 12:00 AM CST

Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA031305.10C.BKNspurs.notebook.131a80661.html

The Spurs don't expect Manu Ginobili to play again until Wednesday at the earliest.

Ginobili has missed the past two games after suffering a slight groin strain Tuesday against New Jersey. Nazr Mohammed has been limited by a similar injury for much of the past month.

The Spurs hope Ginobili will benefit enough from a week of rest to play against Minnesota on Wednesday.

"I don't think (Ginobili's injury) is quite as serious as Nazr's," coach Gregg Popovich said. "Hopefully, he'll be back with us. If he's not ready, we just won't play him."

Ginobili said he probably would have needed to miss at least one game even if he hadn't tweaked his groin. A couple of other minor yet nagging injuries had worn on him.

Ginobili, like Tim Duncan, didn't have much of a break last summer because he played in the Olympics. Before the season, Popovich said he would try to find rest for both players whenever possible.

"It's taken its toll on (Ginobili's) body in a bumps-and-bruises sort of way," Popovich said. "He's not bouncing back as quickly after games. That's going to make him prone to other injuries if we don't get that strength back in him.

"This time off will hopefully help him for the stretch run."

Long road back: Linton Johnson III, sidelined all season with a stress fracture in his left foot, has begun scrimmaging with the team.

Johnson had not been cleared for contact until Thursday. He underwent surgery on the foot Nov. 23.

Popovich is not optimistic about Johnson's chances of making the playoff roster.

"I don't plan on him really helping us this season unless the pace of his improvement drastically increases," Popovich said.

Deep pockets: Mohammed knows how to make a good impression. He bid $13,000 on a trip for two to Hawaii in a charity auction at the Spurs' gala Friday night.

TV fan: Nuggets coach George Karl has been keeping close track of the Western Athletic Conference men's basketball tournament because his son, Coby, is the starting point guard for Boise State, which advanced to a tournament championship game against Texas-El Paso.

Karl described the nerve-racking moments he spent Friday night watching the final seconds of Boise State's victory over Fresno State. Coby Karl made two free throws in the final seconds to give his team the victory.

"Imagine waking up this (Saturday) morning and seeing your kid on 'SportsCenter'," Karl said.

Another former Spurs player who is a head coach, Larry Krystkowiak, got his University of Montana team into the NCAA field of 64 when it won the Big Sky Conference tournament final Saturday.

Fond memories: Karl said he had nothing but great memories of the three seasons he spent with the Spurs in the team's final years in the American Basketball Association.

"As (former Spurs coach) Doug Moe would tell everyone, I was a stiff, but at least I was a hustling stiff," Karl said.

"I had the pleasure of playing with guys like James Silas and George Gervin and Larry Kenon and Billy Paultz. We had some very good teams. We never won the championship, but a guy named Julius Erving got in the way. Then Doug came in and waived me, and I became a coach."

[timvp]

Where are the Manu Defenders who were saying that Manu can play 35+minutes a game? Pop played him 37, 35 and 35 minutes in three straight games and that made him dead tired in the Nets game and now miss three games.

Manu is an awesome player, but he should never average more than 30 minutes per game. If you play him any more than that, he can't last an NBA season and his career is going to be shortened.

Best case scenario is bringing him off the bench for something like 28 minutes a night. That way he can play an entire NBA season and it will ensure that he'll still be able to walk by the time his contract is over. At this right, he's seriously setting himself up for trouble.

When he comes back, Pop must limit his minutes. From now to the end of the season, Manu has to rest up. If he doesn't, he's not going to be good enough in the playoffs for the Spurs to do anything.

This offseason, I'd really consider making it known that Manu is going back to the bench and going out and finding a starter. Manu's not going to make it at this rate.

[Spurgal]

http://img33.exs.cx/img33/926/manuginosinger1ms.jpg
This might explain why Manu hasn't been feeling up to playing basketball lately, It's the late night gigs...
http://img86.exs.cx/img86/6483/manumay2br.jpg

[Kori Ellis]

This offseason, I'd really consider making it known that Manu is going back to the bench and going out and finding a starter. Manu's not going to make it at this rate.

Too drastic.

If he doesn't play in international competition in the summer and plays 28-30 mpg during the season, he should be able to make it.

[timvp]

The thing is ... if he's going to play only 28 minutes per game, why waste 12 of those minutes being the first six minutes of each half? He should play more meaningful segments of the game.

Make him the fourth quarter player a la Ben Gordon.


http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000ILTK.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.gif

[Kori Ellis]

Well if he doesn't play internationally this summer, then I'd imagine they would wait to see how much his stamina has increased early next season before making any dramatic changes.

[timvp]

I don't really buy the argument that he'll magically be able to play more minutes because he'll have the summer off. He's still going to get banged around in games when he starts playing again and will still be playing at 110%. The summer rest will help in the first half of the year, but by the playoffs it'll be the same ish.

[Rick Von Braun]

Where are the Manu Defenders who were saying that Manu can play 35+minutes a game? Pop played him 37, 35 and 35 minutes in three straight games and that made him dead tired in the Nets game and now miss three games.

Manu is an awesome player, but he should never average more than 30 minutes per game. If you play him any more than that, he can't last an NBA season and his career is going to be shortened.

Best case scenario is bringing him off the bench for something like 28 minutes a night. That way he can play an entire NBA season and it will ensure that he'll still be able to walk by the time his contract is over. At this right, he's seriously setting himself up for trouble.

When he comes back, Pop must limit his minutes. From now to the end of the season, Manu has to rest up. If he doesn't, he's not going to be good enough in the playoffs for the Spurs to do anything.

This offseason, I'd really consider making it known that Manu is going back to the bench and going out and finding a starter. Manu's not going to make it at this rate.http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

Yeah, that's right... bench your All-Star! I am glad you are not the coach timvp.

Some of you argue about this like you are their personal physical trainer. It is all speculation.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Manu got injured because he played 3 games 35+. He had some of the nagging injuries before the last 3 games, and some specific plays may have aggravated them. He could have gotten injured by playing 25 minutes/g the last 3 games.

The injuries are more related with his style of play, NOT the total number of minutes. He'll practically get the same exposure to injuries whether he plays 25, 30, or 35 min/g.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif

[timvp]

The injuries are more related with his style of play, NOT the total number of minutes. He'll practically get the same exposure to injuries whether he plays 25, 30, or 35 min/g.

:wtf

That doesn't make sense on so many different levels.

The main point about Manu is he can't physically handle playing more than 30 minutes per game. He's not injured right now by his own admission ... he's worn out. If you don't think that three game stretch had anything to do with it, then you must not be following Manu very closely.

On the court, you can see him getting tired if he plays over 30 minutes. In the Nets game, he asked out of the game after THREE minutes in the second half because he was tired. Him being tired has to do with how many minutes he's playing. This is basic stuff.

Manu isn't a super hero. He gets tired because he plays so damn hard. I don't think any player plays as hard as he does. He's not going to change (as he said in an interview recently), so the Spurs are going to have to limit his minutes so he doesn't get as tired.

In future seasons, the best way to utilize him would be off the bench ... unless you want him playing 12 of his 28 minutes in the first six minutes of each half.

[Rick Von Braun]

:wtf

That doesn't make sense on so many different levels.

The main point about Manu is he can't physically handle playing more than 30 minutes per game. He's not injured right now by his own admission ... he's worn out. If you don't think that three game stretch had anything to do with it, then you must not be following Manu very closely.

On the court, you can see him getting tired if he plays over 30 minutes. In the Nets game, he asked out of the game after THREE minutes in the second half because he was tired. Him being tired has to do with how many minutes he's playing. This is basic stuff.

Manu isn't a super hero. He gets tired because he plays so damn hard. I don't think any player plays as hard as he does. He's not going to change (as he said in an interview recently), so the Spurs are going to have to limit his minutes so he doesn't get as tired.

In future seasons, the best way to utilize him would be off the bench ... unless you want him playing 12 of his 28 minutes in the first six minutes of each half.
As I said, there is absolutely no concrete evidence of what you are saying. I respect your opinion as much as any other Spurs' fan opinion.

We are going to agree to disagree.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't understand what you are saying, Rick. You think that Manu's nagging injuries are not because his body is being worn out?

[timvp]

Manu is tired.

You get tired by playing too many minutes.

[Rick Von Braun]

I don't understand what you are saying, Rick. You think that Manu's nagging injuries are not because his body is being worn out?The nagging 'injures' are most probably due to specific plays. When you fall hard on the floor after a hard foul, you hit your hip. When you get pushed and shoved several times you can strain your groin. My point is that most of the bumps and bruises are probably due to specific plays more than accumulative effort. Manu will always suffer these type of problems due to his style of play, not because he plays +/- 3 minutes.

[GerM]

I don't really buy the argument that he'll magically be able to play more minutes because he'll have the summer off. He's still going to get banged around in games when he starts playing again and will still be playing at 110%. The summer rest will help in the first half of the year, but by the playoffs it'll be the same ish.

You see, stamina is a skill that you CAN increase, no matter the age. And I don´t really think that manu would be very happy playing 28mpg. Thats why I always say next year will be different, I´m sure he already spotted this weakness, and he will work on it this summer.

And I really don´t think pop will ever bench him.

[Kori Ellis]

The nagging 'injures' are most probably due to specific plays. When you fall hard on the floor after a hard foul, you hit your hip. When you get pushed and shoved several times you can strain your groin. My point is that most of the bumps and bruises are probably due to specific plays more than accumulative effort. Manu will always suffer these type of problems due to his style of play, not because he plays +/- 3 minutes.

Okay, I understand what you are saying now.

Though I completely disagree and I believe Manu and the coaching staff do as well. I don't think it's due to specific incidents, but rather long-term fatigue. That's why it's been so important to not play Manu in long stretches this season. That's why he gets pulled at the six minute mark and why they try to monitor his minutes very, very carefully. He is more fatigued after games than any player I've ever seen in my life.

[Kori Ellis]

And I really don´t think pop will ever bench him.

I don't think so either.

[timvp]

When you are tired, you are more susceptible to injuries. That is a known fact in sports. Your body isn't able to react like it would normally and that's when you get in trouble.

On top of that, Manu admits to just being tired. There is no way that isn't a result of too many minutes.

[cqsallie]

You can't watch Manu out there, throwing himself willy-nilly into the fray, without cringing. When he gets up, brushes himself off, and starts all over again, it makes us think that he is invincible...
Well, he's bound to incur some type of injury that he prefers to scoff off and goddess knows, he must get damned tired, which he also laughs off.
The very style of play that makes Spurs' fans love him and sportscasters rave about him is what will eventually bench him or put him on the IL. Somebody has to step in and make him wait out injuries and exhaustion. Manu will never admit to either...

[cqsallie]

http://img33.exs.cx/img33/926/manuginosinger1ms.jpg
This might explain why Manu hasn't been feeling up to playing basketball lately, It's the late night gigs...
http://img86.exs.cx/img86/6483/manumay2br.jpg

[cqsallie]

I have no idea why my reply to Spurgal resulted in a repeat of her post. My apologies! My comments, that seemed to have been lost in all of this were something like:
"The king of the weird basketball moves, disguised as the king of the guitar - Brian May, of Queen, who wrote/performed some of the greatest and most recognizable guitar riffs ever...
Sorry...

[Fizzzar]

Hey, TP has tendinitis on his knees for playing too much, lets bench him as well.

This is ridiculous.

[GrandeDavid]

I don't think Pop would ever take him out of the starting rotation, at least permanently, nor would I want him to. Manu may be better off as a 6th man, but he's too high profile now, too beloved by the fans and now is an All Star. Besides, Argentina would refuse to join the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) were Manu to have his starting position revoked or his minutes reduced. :lol

Obviously Manu is worn out...but I'm thinking that these days off will put that spring back in his step. Tim, I am all for reducing Manu's minutes some. But if that means Brent Barry getting more minutes, then I'll keep my fingers crossed that Barry will somehow remember how to hit a three pointer on a fairly consistent basis.

[Streakyshooter08]

Any word on how worse timmys ankle is? I thought he wanted to play! I hope he will be okay...

[td4mvp21]

I wouldn't bench Ginobili. He's proven himself a starter this year and has been pretty consistent. Benching him would cause a conflict most likely. Who else would we start anyway? I think we have a perfect starting lineup.

[TMTTRIO]

The Spurs aren't going to pay him all that money for him to be another bench player. I think the reason he get's tired soon is he plays with 100% hustle (unlike other players) and aggression. He gets beat up more than any of the other players on the team. That will wear you down after some time. There is no need to bench him.

[kolko]

He should play vs Minny because the game will be on tv in Argentina.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Where are the Manu Defenders who were saying that Manu can play 35+minutes a game? Pop played him 37, 35 and 35 minutes in three straight games and that made him dead tired in the Nets game and now miss three games.

Manu is an awesome player, but he should never average more than 30 minutes per game. If you play him any more than that, he can't last an NBA season and his career is going to be shortened.

Best case scenario is bringing him off the bench for something like 28 minutes a night. That way he can play an entire NBA season and it will ensure that he'll still be able to walk by the time his contract is over. At this right, he's seriously setting himself up for trouble.

When he comes back, Pop must limit his minutes. From now to the end of the season, Manu has to rest up. If he doesn't, he's not going to be good enough in the playoffs for the Spurs to do anything.

This offseason, I'd really consider making it known that Manu is going back to the bench and going out and finding a starter. Manu's not going to make it at this rate.I think you should pipe down a notch tim, you have to take into account this guy hasn't had time to recover from last season because of the Olympics, and neither has Tim as you probably can see. If you think Manu can't average more than 35 minutes, perhaps you should wait till next season to make that assesment. Either way I think you're wrong, and Pop is not going to limit his minutes by putting him on the bench. Plus I would say that his injuries are more a product of the kind of game he plays than playing too many minutes.

[picnroll]

I'd rather see Manu's minutes limited to 30 regular season and go into the playoffs in great shape able to play 35+ minutes at peak performance in games if needed than average 35+ regular season and go into the playoffs banged up and exhausted, slowed by a groin, hip, ankle or hamstring. You don't win the trophy in the regular season.

[Nikos]

Manu had a few stretches where he played 35+mpg, and he did not get injured. Does that strengthen his case for being able to play those 35 mpg? No. So why because he goes out now, its automatically assumed its because he got a stretch of 35mpg+?

I just don't buy he can't play 33-35mpg if he had to. And I won't even if he gets injured for a season. Look around you in the NBA. Plenty of guys get injured every year. Look at the entire swingman unit on the Dallas Mavericks seemingly injured all the time (not just Stack and Finley either). Guys get banged up and injured even if they play 25-30mpg.

Look at all the guys 2 years back who ended up getting injured coming off the Summer Basketball play. The Ray Allens etc... Does that mean Ray can't play 35mpg+ cause he played 56 games last season?

This is a reach. Even if Manu were to get injured for an extended period of time I still don't buy that he cannot play 33-35mpg.

Nothing will change your mind or mine on this. Some people have it burned in their heads that Manu cannot play more than 30mpg, and some people like me think if HE REALLY HAD TO, he could play 35mpg if a team required him to.

Sure Pop likes to keep that injury risk down, and wants to use Manu efficiently while still utilizing the strengths of Barry, and Brown. Not to mention having Bowen as the defensive tone on the wings.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Manu had a few stretches where he played 35+mpg, and he did not get injured. Does that strengthen his case for being able to play those 35 mpg? No. So why because he goes out now, its automatically assumed its because he got a stretch of 35mpg+?

I just don't buy he can't play 33-35mpg if he had to. And I won't even if he gets injured for a season. Look around you in the NBA. Plenty of guys get injured every year. Look at the entire swingman unit on the Dallas Mavericks seemingly injured all the time (not just Stack and Finley either). Guys get banged up and injured even if they play 25-30mpg.

Look at all the guys 2 years back who ended up getting injured coming off the Summer Basketball play. The Ray Allens etc... Does that mean Ray can't play 35mpg+ cause he played 56 games last season?

This is a reach. Even if Manu were to get injured for an extended period of time I still don't buy that he cannot play 33-35mpg.

Nothing will change your mind or mine on this. Some people have it burned in their heads that Manu cannot play more than 30mpg, and some people like me think if HE REALLY HAD TO, he could play 35mpg if a team required him to.

Sure Pop likes to keep that injury risk down, and wants to use Manu efficiently while still utilizing the strengths of Barry, and Brown. Not to mention having Bowen as the defensive tone on the wings.
I agree

[picnroll]

Also a possibility that this is a pattern you'll start seeing from Pop every year. Give the key players that are a little banged up a few consecutive days off to rest up, relax and heal in ealy-mid March, get them hungry and ready for the stretch run and playoffs. Also give the non-key players a chance to step up, get some confidence as key players and see who can and can't be counted on.

[Ginobilly]

Well, with all that time off Manu is getting because of his injuries he should head off to Padre Island to fish for some college girls and for some relaxing. That should do his groin good. :hat :lol

[Nikos]

Another thing I notice this year is Manu simply isn't as daring as he was on defense in the previous few seasons. He paces himself a bit more at times.

I have seen him (even early in the season), not even attempt a shot or steal in 6 minutes of play then go straight to the bench. And this was early in the year when he was playing great ball.

He is being used more on offense late in the game. Basically Pop used him as a sparkplug on O and D the past few years. Now he is a semi-focal point of the offense this season, especially in the crunch time.

Maybe he doesn't try as hard on the defensive end because he pacing himself a bit on offense. But I do see stretches in games where he simply is not being that active on defense. And times where he will be taken out of the game in the 1st Q without even making a peep on the floor. If he is tired from those type of sequences, then I don't see why the Spurs wanted him at his contract if he can only play 27mpg or be a simple bench player or sparkplug. If the coaching staff knows he gets this tired etc...and feel he cannot last a season playing 30mpg, then I have a hard time understanding why they signed him up.

Use the guy, don't typecast him as a sparkplug. If coaching knew his endurance was this weak relative to his style of play and effectiveness why sign him up for 6 years? I would like to think they DO beleive he can play 32-33mpg come playoff time and do a good job.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I don't really buy the argument that he'll magically be able to play more minutes because he'll have the summer off. He's still going to get banged around in games when he starts playing again and will still be playing at 110%. The summer rest will help in the first half of the year, but by the playoffs it'll be the same ish.
Please tell me, based on anything you can come up with, what makes you think a summer rest isn't going to affect that much his ability to play more minutes?? You have to be kidding tim, really.

[T Park]

Start Devin Brown.

bring Ginobili off the bench.

Ginobili just can't handle big minutes, its that simple.


The only people denying are just diehard blind Manu homers.

[Mark in Austin]

If Manu stays in SA this summer and works on his strength and conditioning, he should be able to handle 33-35 minutes a night.

I think he needs to add about 10 pounds of muscle to his frame, to help with some of the impact his body takes. The stronger you are, the harder it is to knock you around or down.

Manu is a smart guy. His basketball idol was Jordan. He's smart enough to realize that Jordan evolved as a player as he aged. It didn't change how intensely competitive he was, or his will to win. The spirit in which he approached the game stayed the same, but the strategy evolved.

I would think the same will be true of Manu. Those of you who read his comments and assume "this is the only way I know how to play" refers strictly to the physical side and not the mental side of the game don't give him enough credit.

[Uncle Donnie]

First the Spurs are "better without Manu", now Manu shouldn't start.

The hate continues.

[smeagol]

Start Devin Brown.

bring Ginobili off the bench.

Ginobili just can't handle big minutes, its that simple.


The only people denying are just diehard blind Manu homers.
I don't thinks Nikos is a diehard blind Manu homer.

His takes a pretty much more elaborate and well thought then the takes from most posters in this forum.

[donkey2400]

If you go by PoP's statement:

"I don't think (Ginobili's injury) is quite as serious as Nazr's," coach Gregg Popovich said. "Hopefully, he'll be back with us. If he's not ready, we just won't play him."

Which means he is could simply be resting Gino. C'mon give the guy a freakin break he has played about 60 games + 20 or so during summer and you are saying he cant make through a whole freaking season with his style of play so bench him. By the same standard you may as well bench TD who seems to be in much worse shape than Gino. Any one remembers he himself has said as recently as AS game that he is not 100%.

[Athenea]

I think it has to do more of being pro-"homeboy"Brown that against Manu, for some "posters" here.
Keep up the campaign; it might pay its due...but do it w/o messing w/our ALL STAR SG, please.

[Frenchise player]

I don't think everyone realizes how much the Olympics is hurting Manu right now.
He gave two weeks of pure energy carrying his team troughout the competition.
After he won, he had to cope with all the media and fans asked for.
He is playing without interuption for the last two years, that's is affecting the way he is recovering from each game. When Manu carried the Spurs in the beginning of last season without TP and Tim, he was playing a lot more than 30 minutes.

Stern sould try to find a solution to the Olympics problem. The most clever one will be to shorten the season and begins it in December. Ignoring the International competitions won't help the league to have fresh players.

[Kori Ellis]

Any word on how worse timmys ankle is? I thought he wanted to play! I hope he will be okay...

Tim's ankle is completely fine. He was out because he tweaked his back.

As for Manu, he is obviously worn out because of his style of play and because of playing in the Olympics, etc. If he really takes this summer off and does was he needs to do to increase his stamina, he should be okay for next season. But I was still never have him AVERAGE 35mpg (that doesn't mean he can't do it sometimes), I'm not sure that anyone's body can take the all out style, 35 mpg over a course of a season. So it's not a knock on Manu. But he SHOULD be able to average 30mpg in a season and not get worn out to the point he starts getting injured.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I don't know where to find the stats, but I feel safe in saying that Manu played somewhere between 30-35 minutes per game in the Olympics, and he was the focal point of that team.

I really feel that having to deal with the rigor of the Olympics (from Argentine training camp to travel over to Greece, to the games themselves, etc.) wore him down - you've seen it in the past several years with a plethora of NBA players, not just energy guys like Manu.

I have no problem with what Pop is doing right now WRT Manu, I just wish he'd maximize Barry's time starting by running some of the offense through him.

[ChumpDumper]

Parker and Manu are at their best when they play 30 mpg or so. Their thin frames and the fact they play so intensely on both sides of the court make them vulnerable to late-game burnout (especailly Parker) and long-term fatigue. This is why the bench is so critical to the success of the Spurs; their sucking of late has done nothing to help this team's fortunes.

I'm all for limiting Manu's minutes, but I disagree the first six minutes of a game are a waste. I can't think of a better front-running team than the Spurs. He can continue to start, his minutes can be limited to preserve him and the whole of our Argentinian contingent can keep their collective panties unbunched. All depends on getting someone else who can bring it when he's out. If we have to get rid of Barry and/or Devin to achieve that, so be it.

[TMTTRIO]

This is why the bench is so critical to the success of the Spurs; their sucking of late has done nothing to help this team's fortunes.
I agree with that. I remember in an interview Manu was saying something to the effect that if the bench starts doing things like hitting shots it makes the job so much easier on Tony and him (besides a couple of games the bench really hasn't done that much). Tim, Manu, and Tony for the most part has had to carry the whole team on their backs and you can see the effects that it's had on our olympians carrying their teams to a medal this summer. I'm not surprised that Manu is finally worn down, tired, and injured. It's been a long year for him. Hopefully this will give the bench a chance to step up in games.

[ChumpDumper]

but I feel safe in saying that Manu played somewhere between 30-35 minutes per game in the OlympicsI feel safe saying he played a second under 30mpg, and I can't believe the warmup and tournament lasted 82 games with several back-to-backs.

[timvp]

I'm not saying to "bench" Manu. That has a bad connotation. I'm saying to better utilize his 28-30 minutes, bring him off the bench. It's not a huge deal because he'll be the go-to player in the fourth quarter.

It's a simple basketball adjustment. The problem is Manu Defenders would go crazy and see it as a slap in the face when it was just a tweak to make Manu an even more important player on the team.

Oh well.

[ChumpDumper]

It would be easy to bring Manu off the bench if we had someone as consistent as even Hedo to start.

Right now, we don't.

[timvp]

If you think Manu can't average more than 35 minutes, perhaps you should wait till next season to make that assesment. Either way I think you're wrong, and Pop is not going to limit his minutes by putting him on the bench.

1) Manu will never average 35 minutes a game in the regular season. He wouldn't make it through the year.

2) I never said to limit his minutes by putting him on the bench.

[timvp]

Manu had a few stretches where he played 35+mpg, and he did not get injured. Does that strengthen his case for being able to play those 35 mpg? No. So why because he goes out now, its automatically assumed its because he got a stretch of 35mpg+?

I just don't buy he can't play 33-35mpg if he had to. And I won't even if he gets injured for a season. Look around you in the NBA. Plenty of guys get injured every year. Look at the entire swingman unit on the Dallas Mavericks seemingly injured all the time (not just Stack and Finley either). Guys get banged up and injured even if they play 25-30mpg.

Look at all the guys 2 years back who ended up getting injured coming off the Summer Basketball play. The Ray Allens etc... Does that mean Ray can't play 35mpg+ cause he played 56 games last season?

This is a reach. Even if Manu were to get injured for an extended period of time I still don't buy that he cannot play 33-35mpg.

Nothing will change your mind or mine on this. Some people have it burned in their heads that Manu cannot play more than 30mpg, and some people like me think if HE REALLY HAD TO, he could play 35mpg if a team required him to.

Sure Pop likes to keep that injury risk down, and wants to use Manu efficiently while still utilizing the strengths of Barry, and Brown. Not to mention having Bowen as the defensive tone on the wings.

What do you mean if "HE REALLY HAD TO"? Like if his life was on the line, could he average 33-35 minutes per game? Yeah, in that case he probably could.

But unless you want to just bury your head in the sand, you should be able to see that he fatigues when he plays too many minutes.

Again, I'm not taking anything away from him. I'm just pointing out a byproduct of him playing so hard.

[timvp]

Another thing I notice this year is Manu simply isn't as daring as he was on defense in the previous few seasons.

That's because his daring defense was bad for the team. Last year, he got into the habit of going for the steal everytime down the court and it even cost the Spurs a couple games. This season, he's playing MUCH better defense and knows that playing hardnosed defense is better than going for steals all the time.


If he is tired from those type of sequences, then I don't see why the Spurs wanted him at his contract if he can only play 27mpg or be a simple bench player or sparkplug. If the coaching staff knows he gets this tired etc...and feel he cannot last a season playing 30mpg, then I have a hard time understanding why they signed him up.

If he plays the same amount of minutes off the bench, why does that make his an "simple bench player"? Get over the bad connotation.


Use the guy, don't typecast him as a sparkplug. If coaching knew his endurance was this weak relative to his style of play and effectiveness why sign him up for 6 years? I would like to think they DO beleive he can play 32-33mpg come playoff time and do a good job.

His endurance is the only weakness to his game right now. For the 28-30 minutes he's on the court, he's an amazing player. He's put the pieces together and has learned the NBA game.

Regarding his playing time in the playoffs, 32-33 mpg sounds reasonable. Maybe even a little more than that. In the playoffs, you get a day off between ever game and if you take care of business, you get a couple days off in between rounds.

[Streakyshooter08]

Well, I think ppl overestimate "starting"! To me it matters more who finishes a game and how many minutes the player gets. I would say 30 minutes/game should be okay. I don't say he should come off the bench. But the coach has to figure out how a player helps the team the most. I think Manu an Pop will find a way to get it done.

@Kori: Will Timmy play monday?

[GerM]

I wouldn't mind that much if manu was not a starter, assuming he would he get his minutes. I just don't think pop will ever do that, considering that manu does a good job at the start of the game. And don't think he will play 35mpg a season either, but I would bet he will have 32 minutes next year.

[Spurgal]

Manu has been pretty busy lately... The Olympics, the guy Is still considered a newlywed, his season with the Spurs, his All Star game, and let's not forget his gigs. :lol
I'm sure shitty Pop knows what's best for his players. Hopefully, It doesn't back fire on his ass..


http://img33.exs.cx/img33/926/manuginosinger1ms.jpg
This might explain why Manu hasn't been feeling up to playing basketball lately, It's the late night gigs...
http://img86.exs.cx/img86/6483/manumay2br.jpg

[E20]

Manu can play 30+MPG he's just tired from the summer olympics.

[Valerya]

So far these are Pop's favorite players...

http://www.sahoops.net/MainStoryImages/031205Nuggets.jpg
http://img232.exs.cx/img232/1465/ginoback1hv.jpg http://www.2ni2.com/emoticon/humor/emoticones_sonrisas.gif

[timvp]

http://img232.exs.cx/img232/1465/ginoback1hv.jpg http://www.2ni2.com/emoticon/humor/emoticones_sonrisas.gif

:lmao

[E20]

Ginobili needs to brush up on his English.

[ChumpDumper]

I see the new Photoshop has a ducks mode.

[blackbucket]

:rollin :rollin :rollin

[Nikos]

What do you mean if "HE REALLY HAD TO"? Like if his life was on the line, could he average 33-35 minutes per game? Yeah, in that case he probably could.


Meaning if he signed for the Nugz or Suns, he would play more than 30mpg.


But unless you want to just bury your head in the sand, you should be able to see that he fatigues when he plays too many minutes.

Bury my head in the sand? Because I think he can play 32-33mpg? The guy is going to be just as tired if he plays 25mpg. He said the same stuff and had fatigue problems last season too, even when he was seeing a decrease in time.

I just find it funny how when Manu has a little tweak you jump on the fact he played 35 min, but when he has several great games playing 35mpg+ you basically just shrug it off. Sure he isn't averaging more than 35mpg on the season, but you always seem to point out in your grades and analysis how tired Manu is before the games even happen and how he might struggle going into it. But even in back to backs he has had some good games. I don't really ever see that being noted when he does have that good game on a back to back.



Again, I'm not taking anything away from him. I'm just pointing out a byproduct of him playing so hard.

Sure he is more efficient for this team at 30mpg. But if he played for a less defensively focused club, I think you would see less gambles. I don't remember him being that much of a thief or gambler in the Olympics.


That's because his daring defense was bad for the team. Last year, he got into the habit of going for the steal everytime down the court and it even cost the Spurs a couple games. This season, he's playing MUCH better defense and knows that playing hardnosed defense is better than going for steals all the time.

It was more good, more often than bad. Don't let those two games fool you, he has had several game turning steals as well. But because they happened near the end of the game they got magnified. Spurs should have won those games anyway IMO against the Hornets especially. Manu became more reckless when he got benched by Pop, and it took him a while to find his groove. I think that benching did hurt his confidence for a while. He wasn't only gambling more, but turning it over a lot more too.



If he plays the same amount of minutes off the bench, why does that make his an "simple bench player"? Get over the bad connotation.

I really do not see the point in benching him. Pop can manage his minutes however he wants, and take him out whenever. Why put him on the bench? It can only dink his confidence a bit. It is natural for a player to feel slighted when put to the bench, I don't care how confident that player is.

I happen to think Manu played very good defense from when he came in the league. Today he doesn't guard the best offensive players like Pop used to make him do at times off the bench in 0203. I do not think those few poor gambles mean he played subpar defense. All those charges he drew and steals he made account for a lot. I happen to think all his forced turnovers are nearly as valuable as what most of the elite positional defenders in the NBA on the perimeter bring. Maybe not Bruce, but most other perimeter defenders.



His endurance is the only weakness to his game right now. For the 28-30 minutes he's on the court, he's an amazing player. He's put the pieces together and has learned the NBA game.

Regarding his playing time in the playoffs, 32-33 mpg sounds reasonable. Maybe even a little more than that. In the playoffs, you get a day off between ever game and if you take care of business, you get a couple days off in between rounds.

Bottom line, in the playoffs you play your best players a decent chunk of minutes. You take your chances. I don't care if Manu plays 30mpg in the regular season as long as he gets a few more minutes in the playoffs. I don't want to see Pop saving him or trying to micromanage his minutes just assuming he will be a 4th quarter wizard. There are no gauruntees with that. Just play him a consistent set of minutes and let him play in the playoffs. Don't use him as a supersub or whatever. If you limit his minutes more in the playoffs, you won't get the best out of him.

[waly.mg]

MartinR me parece que tiraste cualquiera!! jeje

Para mi que el lunes no juego... y el miercoles si estoy bien si, mas alla del rival, phoenix, la suba de la bolsa en corea o la escasez de lluvia en Ulan Bator! ;-)

Un abrazo

http://manuginobili.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19132

[Extra Stout]

Where are the Duncan Defenders who were saying that Duncan can play 35+minutes a game? He's averaged nearly that many this season and now he is continually banged up and is missing games. If it's not an ankle, it's his hip or his back.

Tim is an awesome player, but he should never average more than 30 minutes per game. If you play him any more than that, he can't last many more NBA seasons and his career is going to be shortened.

Best case scenario is bringing him off the bench for something like 28 minutes a night. That way he can play an entire NBA season and it will ensure that he'll still be able to walk by the time his contract is over. At this rate, he's seriously setting himself up for trouble.

When he comes back, Pop must limit his minutes. From now to the end of the season, Tim has to rest up. If he doesn't, he's not going to be good enough in the playoffs for the Spurs to do anything.

This offseason, I'd really consider making it known that Tim is going to be the first big man off the bench and going out and finding a starting power forward. Tim's not going to make it at this rate.

[boutons]

WTF?

What kind sport is it that the game is so tough, the players are so mis-matched to the demands of the game, that a player (in his youth/prime) can only play 50% of a game?

Check around the other top teams with some bench, Pistons, Rockets, Heat. You'll find plenty of players not breaking down when playing MPG of 30, 35, 40.

What TF is wrong with the Spurs starters that they can't do the same?

[smeagol]

IMO, benching Manu is not the solution. You start with your best players and you end the game with you most "clutch" players. Manu fits the profile.

[Seru Giran]

Well if he doesn't play internationally this summer, then I'd imagine they would wait to see how much his stamina has increased early next season before making any dramatic changes.

after Argentina won the gold medal Manu was very vocal about playing intenationally this summer if the situation is ideal for him. He stressed many times that he wants to be rested for his NBA career hence playing for Argentina without a crazy schedule (as they always are)

[Phenomanul]

IMO, benching Manu is not the solution. You start with your best players and you end the game with you most "clutch" players. Manu fits the profile.


^^^^^Usually the simplest solution is the best one....

I concur.

[hendrix]

after Argentina won the gold medal Manu was very vocal about playing intenationally this summer if the situation is ideal for him. He stressed many times that he wants to be rested for his NBA career hence playing for Argentina without a crazy schedule (as they always are)

Yes. After the gold medal Montecchia retired and some players (most of the squad) are "resting" from Argentine national team for a couple of years, only to return for next World Championship in Japan. This was kind of happening already at continental (South America) Level, since Argentina has a lot of good players and the rotation doesnt hurt much the team.
So, for Ginobilli fans outside Argentina this is good news.

[Athenea]

Where are the Duncan Defenders who were saying that Duncan can play 35+minutes a game? He's averaged nearly that many this season and now he is continually banged up and is missing games. If it's not an ankle, it's his hip or his back.

Tim is an awesome player, but he should never average more than 30 minutes per game. If you play him any more than that, he can't last many more NBA seasons and his career is going to be shortened.

Best case scenario is bringing him off the bench for something like 28 minutes a night. That way he can play an entire NBA season and it will ensure that he'll still be able to walk by the time his contract is over. At this rate, he's seriously setting himself up for trouble.

When he comes back, Pop must limit his minutes. From now to the end of the season, Tim has to rest up. If he doesn't, he's not going to be good enough in the playoffs for the Spurs to do anything.

This offseason, I'd really consider making it known that Tim is going to be the first big man off the bench and going out and finding a starting power forward. Tim's not going to make it at this rate.
:lol :lol :lol
U can put Tony instead of Tim also...