Jaguar, Buick dethrone Lexus in reliability study

[RandomGuy]

This for me, pretty much completes the burial of the idea that US cars are inferior in quality to japanese imports.--RG


NEW YORK – Jaguar and Buick surged to the top of J.D. Power and Associates' closely watched vehicle dependability study this year, tying for the No. 1 spot and dethroning Lexus for the first time since the Japanese luxury brand has been a part of the survey.

Lexus, Toyota Motor Corp.'s luxury brand, took the next spot in the study released Thursday, followed by Toyota's namesake brand, then Mercury, Infiniti and Acura.

"Buick and Jaguar both lead the industry in nameplate performance," said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis at J.D. Power. "In terms of individual model performance, Lexus and Toyota still do very, very well."

The annual study measures problems experienced by the original owners of vehicles after three years. Suzuki owners reported the most problems among the 37 brands assessed by J.D. Power.

Despite losing its crown to Jaguar and Buick, Lexus still swept top awards in four segments, while Toyota's namesake brand took five awards. General Motors Corp.'s Buick LaCrosse was J.D. Power's top midsize car, while Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln brand took two awards. Chrysler LLC, which took no segment awards last year, won top honors for its Dodge Caravan in the van segment.

Jaguar jumped from the No. 10 spot in 2008, while Buick leapt from the No. 6 spot. The movement is notable for a study that is fairly consistent from year to year, and the results marked the first time Lexus was not either first or tied for first since it was first included in the study in 1995. Oddes said both Jaguar and Buick have made significant improvements recently.

"We see improvements all over the board with Jaguar," Oddes said, citing fewer reported problems with vehicle exterior, sound system and the overall driving experience. "The improvement at a nameplate level is significant."

Mike O'Driscoll, Jaguar's managing director, said the award marks a huge step forward for Jaguar's image in the U.S., which he acknowledged has suffered recently. He said the company has been working furiously to reinvent itself in recent years.

"The improvements really started with a major investment we made at Jaguar in new technology and a much more intelligent approach to design," he said. "This is really a vindication of that investment and technology."

Oddes also said Buick has taken heed of problems reported in previous J.D. Power studies and made "continuous improvement on their side of things."

Jamie Hresko, GM's vice president of quality, said the win for Buick is a win for GM overall because the company has duplicated the lessons from Buick in all new models.

"I think we still struggle with the perception, that the perception of our product is substandard," he said. "If we continue to attack the markets that we consider will be high volume, which is markets like the Chevrolet Malibu, and we can sell a few hundred thousand of them, the reputation will spread."

Buick has performed at or near the top of the J.D. Power rankings in past years, tying Lexus for first two years ago, but dropping to sixth last year. Hresko expects the company's other brands to do better than past years in the J.D. Power initial quality survey.

Jaguar, which Indian car giant Tata Motors Ltd. bought from Ford in 2007, remains a relatively small-volume brand in the U.S. It sold just 14,000 vehicles here in 2008, while Buick sold 128,000.

Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales USA, said in a statement that the company was pleased with the study's results, and noted that it won more best-in-segment awards than any other automaker.

Oddes said this year's study was redesigned to exclude routine fixes from a vehicle's list of problems. For example, the study no longer counts tire or windshield wiper replacements as a reportable problem. The intended result is a study that focuses on actual glitches with a vehicle, Oddes said, though it also makes it difficult to make year-over-year comparisons.

"We cleaned up the survey to really try to focus in on things that are truly broken," he said.

The industry average was 170 problems per 100 vehicles, or somewhat less than two problems per vehicle. Last year, the industry average was 206 problems per 100 vehicles, but year-over-year improvements this year are much less pronounced when accounting for the changes in the study's methodology, Oddes said.

The numerical differences between brands that crowd the top are extremely small. For example, Jaguar and Buick owners reported an average of 122 problems per 100 vehicles, while Lexus owners reported 126 and Toyota 129. At the bottom, Suzuki owners reported an average of 263 problems per 100 vehicles.

The most frequently reported problem was wind noise, followed by brake noise, peeling paint, brake vibrations and problems with a vehicle's lights, Oddes said. The problems have been fairly consistent from year to year, he said.

J.D. Power's dependability study surveyed 46,313 original owners of 2006 model-year vehicles in October 2008. The results are watched closely by automakers and are often used in advertising. Owners' opinion of a car after three years can be a major influence on their opinion to buy that brand again.

The firm also releases an initial quality study, which measures problems in the first 90 days of ownership. That study usually comes out in June.

----------------------------------

The differences are practically nil for the most part.

[Extra Stout]

Jaguar? Jaguar? Seriously?

Jaguar winning a reliability survey would be like the Clippers winning nine consecutive championships.

[Technique]

Bmw.

[Blake]

The annual study measures problems experienced by the original owners of vehicles after three years.

that's maybe 40-50k miles.

I'll take Toyota and stick with my thinking that American sedans still suck.

[Blake]

..........and if I'm not mistaken, isn't GM going to consolidate the Buick, Olds and Chevrolet brands?

[Drachen]

Jaguar? Jaguar? Seriously?

Jaguar winning a reliability survey would be like the Clippers winning nine consecutive championships.

RE: US cars are no longer inferior

If you consider it, this is two american companies tied for the top spot, because Jag was owned by Ford until last year. So all of the cars that would have participated in this survey would have been designed and built by Ford. As far as Jag surprising you with its reliability, that started transforming the minute Ford bought them, this was even before Ford started caring about quality. That tells you a lot about Jag before.

[RandomGuy]

that's maybe 40-50k miles.

I'll take Toyota and stick with my thinking that American sedans still suck.

I own an american sedan with 300,000+ miles on it. Ford crown vic, 1998.

American cars just as good as, if not better, than Japanese.

That said: Toyota vehicles are often made in the US with a lot of US parts anyways.

[RandomGuy]

RE: US cars are no longer inferior

If you consider it, this is two american companies tied for the top spot, because Jag was owned by Ford until last year. So all of the cars that would have participated in this survey would have been designed and built by Ford. As far as Jag surprising you with its reliability, that started transforming the minute Ford bought them, this was even before Ford started caring about quality. That tells you a lot about Jag before.

That was my thought as well.

Ford will emerge from this in a very strong position overall.

I wish I had some cash to throw at their stock, because by the time I retire, buying their stock at historic lows will have been one of the best deals ever.

I think the US stock market is below where it should be, simply because of the "fear" factor. Everybody is scared to get into the market and is pulling back.

[Drachen]

That was my thought as well.

Ford will emerge from this in a very strong position overall.

I wish I had some cash to throw at their stock, because by the time I retire, buying their stock at historic lows will have been one of the best deals ever.

I think the US stock market is below where it should be, simply because of the "fear" factor. Everybody is scared to get into the market and is pulling back.

Yeah, I have been slowly accumulating ford stock (have about 150 shares right now), and I am of the mind that this is a tremendous opportunity since they were the first company to start a restructuring plan to be able to be profitable on lower sales (all the way back in 2006). The other two waited until they HAD to come up with one. Also Ford realized that quality could not only sell cars, but reduce costs too. I read an article about 3 weeks ago that stated that they had cut their warrantee costs, or the cost of repairs to cars under warrantee, by 50% in the last 5 years. This saves them 1.2 Billion dollars a year, which they can put into R&D, etc. to create more value. Luckily for people who are investing, they are currently being lumped in with the other 2 which causes the depressed share price. Random, you should open a sharebuilder account and have them take 25 dollars twice a month (or once a month if you cant afford it) and have it automatically invest in ford every month. You can even direct deposit this amount from your check if you dont want it to ever hit your bank account.


P.S. I am no Ford Cheerleader, until now. I have never owned a ford and was a Dodge man, myself. I am just thinking more with my head now than my heart, and am seriously considering buying the ford escape hybrid next year, especially if the cash for clunkers goes through because my car will be 8 years old then and will qualify to be classifed as a "clunker" under the reported terms of the suggested law.

[Blake]

American cars just as good as, if not better, than Japanese.


there is no way in hell you will ever convince me that a Ford sedan is "as good, if not better" than a Toyota.

[Blake]

Random, you should open a sharebuilder account and have them take 25 dollars twice a month (or once a month if you cant afford it) and have it automatically invest in ford every month. You can even direct deposit this amount from your check if you dont want it to ever hit your bank account.

I like this idea

[Thunder Dan]

..........and if I'm not mistaken, isn't GM going to consolidate the Buick, Olds and Chevrolet brands?

Buick is like the shit over in China. They can't make them fast enough. GM is getting rid of Saab, Hummer and Saturn and scaling back Pontiac to 2 models

[Drachen]

Buick is like the shit over in China. They can't make them fast enough. GM is getting rid of Saab, Hummer and Saturn and scaling back Pontiac to 2 models

I own a buick rendezvous (I hate going to walmart to get a battery or something, they can never pronounce it and I have once been told "that's not how you prononce it you drive a ren - dez - vouse"). Anyway, the Buick has been pretty darn good to me, its an 02 and has about 99k on it.

[Drachen]

I like this idea

I love my sharebuilder account because I set it up and can forget it. Doesn't mean I DO forget it. My personality type tells me I should be a day trader, but I am trying my damndest to invest long-term in value companies. Either way, doing the research is fun.

[Thunder Dan]

I still say that all this Anti-american car thing is perception. All the people that say you don't need work on foreign cars are lying to you because if you drive by a Toyota dealer, or Honda dealer, they all have service departments and they have all had recalls in the last couple of years. I mean the Tundra had a recall because the frames would rust so bad that you would have holes in your frame- yet they are 'dependable' Anyone can point to critics choices- which US companies have closed the gap- but those are written by writers that know their audience. The nerds that go to a magazine to find out what car they should buy don't want to hear they should buy an American car. Those yuppies have to be so in the know, and up to date that they have to drive a Japanese car because how could a company in the news with financial problems possibly build a car worthy for them to drive? Their peers will look down on them if they drive a car made by a company whose stock has declined. They don't know why it's declined, but they can't have their peers associate their new big purchases with a company in the news for wrong reasons. The publications know this, and they cater to them. I mean what asshole depends solely on a magazine or newspapers advice as to what car to buy?

[RandomGuy]

Random, you should open a sharebuilder account and have them take 25 dollars twice a month (or once a month if you cant afford it) and have it automatically invest in ford every month. You can even direct deposit this amount from your check if you dont want it to ever hit your bank account.


P.S. I am no Ford Cheerleader, until now. I have never owned a ford and was a Dodge man, myself. I am just thinking more with my head now than my heart, and am seriously considering buying the ford escape hybrid next year, especially if the cash for clunkers goes through because my car will be 8 years old then and will qualify to be classifed as a "clunker" under the reported terms of the suggested law.

That would be a good idea, if I were not servicing some high interest debt at the moment, due to a stretch of unemployment a couple of years ago. :bang

It is incredibly frustrating to be unable to build up assets at a time when stocks are disgustingly, irrationally, cheap.

Sokay. My net worth is going up monthly either way, but still it would be much more satisfying doing that because I was smart enough to recognize a good deal when I see it.

[RandomGuy]

Random, you should open a sharebuilder account and have them take 25 dollars twice a month (or once a month if you cant afford it) and have it automatically invest in ford every month. You can even direct deposit this amount from your check if you dont want it to ever hit your bank account.

Btw, details and link?

I don't have the money, but others might, and I still need to be aware of opportunities for when I finally have that debt paid off.

[DarrinS]

This is very surprising to me.


I still have to laugh when I see someone acting like hot shit with a Jaguar X-Type, when it's really just a Ford Contour.

[Drachen]

I still say that all this Anti-american car thing is perception. All the people that say you don't need work on foreign cars are lying to you because if you drive by a Toyota dealer, or Honda dealer, they all have service departments and they have all had recalls in the last couple of years. I mean the Tundra had a recall because the frames would rust so bad that you would have holes in your frame- yet they are 'dependable' Anyone can point to critics choices- which US companies have closed the gap- but those are written by writers that know their audience. The nerds that go to a magazine to find out what car they should buy don't want to hear they should buy an American car. Those yuppies have to be so in the know, and up to date that they have to drive a Japanese car because how could a company in the news with financial problems possibly build a car worthy for them to drive? Their peers will look down on them if they drive a car made by a company whose stock has declined. They don't know why it's declined, but they can't have their peers associate their new big purchases with a company in the news for wrong reasons. The publications know this, and they cater to them. I mean what asshole depends solely on a magazine or newspapers advice as to what car to buy?

Go back to late 90s early 2000s and look at a consumer reports, or a JD power and associates to see if it is perception or reality. I was getting a tow in my dodge truck back in 97 and I asked the tow truck driver what he has to tow the most and he said that 1 out of every two calls was for a ford. As far as the yuppie thing, that makes a lot of sense since Escalades are popular amonst that set.

[Thunder Dan]

and like I've said before on here. I grew up in and around the car business. My dad owns or has owned Chevy, Olds, Toyota, BMW and Cadillac franchises. The differences between the people that buy BMW's and Toyotas are staggering when you compare them to other buyers. So what I'm saying is, when I call them nerds, I'm not lying. Most of the time, all they depend on is what magazines or internet people have to say about a car.

I drove a X5 for a year while in college, then I got a Trailblazer. I swear to god, the Trailblazer was a better truck. It rode better, handled better, and even had a instrument panel that was user friendly. I didn't have problems with either, but the price difference of the 2 was about $20,000. The X5 you felt every freakin bump in the road. I'm not saying all BMW's are overrated because I like their sedans, but their SUV's suck and people only buy them because of status.

[Thunder Dan]

Go back to late 90s early 2000s and look at a consumer reports, or a JD power and associates to see if it is perception or reality. I was getting a tow in my dodge truck back in 97 and I asked the tow truck driver what he has to tow the most and he said that 1 out of every two calls was for a ford. As far as the yuppie thing, that makes a lot of sense since Escalades are popular amonst that set.

yuppies don't buy Escalades, people with actual money and black people buy Cadillacs. Yuppies buy Lexus, Audi and BMW.

[Thunder Dan]

Btw, details and link?

I don't have the money, but others might, and I still need to be aware of opportunities for when I finally have that debt paid off.

I have a sharebuilder account and it's $9.95 a trade, so if you just did $25 a week or month, you are losing like 50% everytime you make a purchase. The only time they don't charge you is when you are buying their Mutual Funds. I could be missing something, but that is how I take it

[Blake]

I still say that all this Anti-american car thing is perception.

you can say it, but you'd be wrong


All the people that say you don't need work on foreign cars are lying to you because if you drive by a Toyota dealer, or Honda dealer, they all have service departments and they have all had recalls in the last couple of years. I mean the Tundra had a recall because the frames would rust so bad that you would have holes in your frame- yet they are 'dependable' Anyone can point to critics choices- which US companies have closed the gap- but those are written by writers that know their audience. The nerds that go to a magazine to find out what car they should buy don't want to hear they should buy an American car. Those yuppies have to be so in the know, and up to date that they have to drive a Japanese car because how could a company in the news with financial problems possibly build a car worthy for them to drive? Their peers will look down on them if they drive a car made by a company whose stock has declined. They don't know why it's declined, but they can't have their peers associate their new big purchases with a company in the news for wrong reasons. The publications know this, and they cater to them. I mean what asshole depends solely on a magazine or newspapers advice as to what car to buy?

I think the consensus is that American trucks are better for the price than the Japanese, but not sedans.

I base my opinion on the cars I have owned, the cars my parents have owned, the cars my friends have owned, the cars my employer has given me, and what Consumer Reports has said.

I'll take a Toyota Camry, thanks.

[Blake]

people with actual money and black people buy Cadillacs.

nice.

go ahead and consider yourself an idiot.

[Drachen]

Btw, details and link?

I don't have the money, but others might, and I still need to be aware of opportunities for when I finally have that debt paid off.

Sharebuilder.com
Trades are $10 if you do a real time trade (limit or not), this is not the best price you can find out there, but what sets them apart is if you set up automatic investing the trades are only $4 on those. Pretty simple you select a stock (or stocks) that you want to accumulate. You tell them to auto-deduct on preset days (1st and 15th for me). Then you can say "invest $50 in Ford and $50 in GE when funds are available." Then you let it go. It takes your preset amount out at your preset times and once you have $100 in your account it will invest in those two the next Tuesday. Total cost: $8 (two trades at $4 a piece). There is no minimum and you can just let it go and look at it when you want to. You can change your selections at any time too. I understand servicing high interest debt (TRUST ME), but especially at this time with these opportunities, you have to do both. If you find a company that you really believe will come out of this stronger, as I do with ford, then the money that you can make on it will far outweigh the interest you save on an extra $25 or $50 a month payment.

With all that being said, if you are making minimums and still strapped, I understand, but if you have 5 bills where you pay double the minimum every month, do you think taking 5 or 10 bucks off of each will kill you. I like to take an all of the above approach to financial planning, especially with the opportunity out there right now. I won't go any further with this, you know what you are comfortable with, but if you want any more info about the sharebuilder account, or anything related, let me know.

Edit: Not that I was berating you or anything, but I apologize for presuming to be qualified to tell you what you can or can't do with your money. I was just offering suggestions that you may not have thought of, but seeing as you seem to have the intellectual capacity to carry on a conversation and all, I am sure you have probably already poured over your finances to find the best plan for you. - my bad

[Thunder Dan]

nice.

go ahead and consider yourself an idiot.

why am I an idiot? That is a proven fact that African Americans are one of the largest demographics for Cadillac.

I just did a simple google search, and you can see that of any luxury brand, Black people buy Cadillac the most

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_Dec_19/ai_n15953932

[Blake]

why am I an idiot? That is a proven fact that African Americans are one of the largest demographics for Cadillac

I think you mean African Americans and people with money.

You are an idiot.

[Thunder Dan]

I think you mean African Americans and people with money.

You are an idiot.

since when is Black a derogatory word?

I said black people buy Cadillacs and that is true. If you give a black man $60,000 and he can only spend it on a car he will likely atleast consider a Cadillac. If you go to a yuppie and give them the same money they will buy a Audi, MB or BMW. It's not making it up.

[Drachen]

I have a sharebuilder account and it's $9.95 a trade, so if you just did $25 a week or month, you are losing like 50% everytime you make a purchase. The only time they don't charge you is when you are buying their Mutual Funds. I could be missing something, but that is how I take it

Read my description above. Also, you don't have to invest the moment it hits your account, you can accumulate, then invest. If you set up $25 a week, then invest only once a month, then you have brought the percentage than you pay in commission down from near 50% in your example to 4% in mine.

[Thunder Dan]

Nissan 12.5%

Chevrolet 11.6%

Toyota 9.5%

Ford 9.2%

Chrysler 7.7%

Honda 5.3%

Dodge 4.4%

Hyundai 3.8%

Cadillac 3.3%



Now think about this. Black people bought almost as many Caddies as they did Dodge's. When you consider than probably only a handful of people surveyed were upper class, that makes that 3.3% even larger. Obviously the middle class more high volume brands will sell more, but 3.3% is alot of cars. If this survey was only luxury brands I'm guessing that Caddie would be in the 75-80% range if not higher.

[Blake]

since when is Black a derogatory word?

It's really not


I said black people buy Cadillacs and that is true. If you give a black man $60,000 and he can only spend it on a car he will likely atleast consider a Cadillac. If you go to a yuppie and give them the same money they will buy a Audi, MB or BMW. It's not making it up.

this just gets better.

I hate deterring from this thread because it's a good thread.....

but you are an idiot.

[Trainwreck2100]

..........and if I'm not mistaken, isn't GM going to consolidate the Buick, Olds and Chevrolet brands?

They phased out olds years ago

[CavsSuperFan]

The report is a joke...JD Powers does not do reliability tests based on 2 or 4 year periods…They are more like fewest complaints in the first 90 days of ownership…There is no way a Jaguar can compete with Honda or Toyota in long term reliability & resale value….

[Thunder Dan]

It's really not



this just gets better.

I hate deterring from this thread because it's a good thread.....

but you are an idiot.

Alright, you have called me that 3 times but don't give me a reason why I'm an idiot. It's a fact black Americans are one of the largest demographics for caddy, so when I say black people buy caddies I'm right, so I'm missing the comment that makes me an idiot

[Drachen]

The report is a joke...JD Powers does not do reliability tests based on 2 or 4 year periods…They are more like fewest complaints in the first 90 days of ownership…There is no way a Jaguar can compete with Honda or Toyota in long term reliability & resale value….

Buick, Jag, Lexus, Toyota

These three have the highest rating in the JD Power and associates Dependability rating.

[CavsSuperFan]

Riiiiight…Buy & new Jag & see if you can sell it for 20% of what you paid for it three years before…

The only Jags that are reliable are the ones that owners put 350 CI Chevrolet engines in…

[CavsSuperFan]

If Jaguar made guns there would be no wars….

[Drachen]

Riiiiight…Buy & new Jag & see if you can sell it for 20% of what you paid for it three years before…

The only Jags that are reliable are the ones that owners put 350 CI Chevrolet engines in…

As to your first statement, nothing in this thread indicates anything about resell value, only quality and dependability.

As to your second statement, the data collected by those who have access to far more experiences, and resources than you say otherwise.

[CavsSuperFan]

I guess that is why Ford unloaded Jaguar at a fire sale…Because Jags are so well made…

[Drachen]

I guess that is why Ford unloaded Jaguar at a fire sale…Because Jags are so well made…
Um, they were making the Jags for years before the "unloaded at firesale prices." If they thought they weren't being well made, they would have changed them. That arguement is as silly as saying Ford voted to cease to exist because Fords aren't well made. They unloaded because it did not fit into their reorganized business plan, which is responsible for their ability to thrive without bailout money.

[Blake]

people with actual money and black people buy Cadillacs.

honestly, if you can't figure out what's wrong with this, then you are an idiot.

either way, you're an idiot.

[Drachen]

honestly, if you can't figure out what's wrong with this, then you are an idiot.

either way, you're an idiot.

I hate jumping into this fray, but I originally thought your problem was with the word "black", but then you said it wasn't. Should he have qualified it with black people in the middle class segment, or how?

I guess I am an idiot.

Wait, I think I got it, the black people have to have money in order to buy a cadillac, so why seperate them from the first group (i.e. "people with money"), is that right?

[CavsSuperFan]

I finally get it!...It’s a play on words…
“Reliable Jaguar”…
It’s like saying “honest politician” or ”military intelligence”…

[Drachen]

I finally get it!...It’s a play on words…
“Reliable Jaguar”…
It’s like saying “honest politician” or ”military intelligence”…

Look this all goes back to think with your head not with your heart. I am not saying that you should look at JD Power and buy a car based solely on that, I am saying that it gives you a good idea where to begin looking. JD, Consumer reports, edmunds, actual reviews by customers (9.6 for the last three years on the XJ series for Jag on edmunds). If you want to base your decision on old data instead of new learning, go for it. That style of thinking allows history to repeat itself.

Also, its not play on words, you are thinking of an oxymoron. For example Rational Cavs Fan.

[CavsSuperFan]

I guess that if JD Powers said that the Yugo & the Fiat 500 were reliable cars we should believe that as well…:lol:lmao:lol

[Drachen]

I guess that if JD Powers said that the Yugo & the Fiat 500 were reliable cars we should believe that as well…:lol:lmao:lol

Straw man.

Did they actually do that? If not you are building a straw man which is a false arguement. If their studies indicate that a car is reliable then I see no reason not to believe them. Then (and I already explained this before, but I guess you can't read rational thought either), you take that information as a basis for further personal research.

[CavsSuperFan]

We should always believe corporations (instead of the general populace) who claim to be the experts… After extensive study & research Standard & Poors gave mortgage securities a AAA rating….That worked out pretty well…:lol:lmao:lol

[Drachen]

We should always believe corporations (instead of the general populace) who claim to be the experts… After extensive study & research Standard & Poors gave mortgage securities a AAA rating….That worked out pretty well…:lol:lmao:lol

Last post: sorry I have things to do other than teach basic reading and critical thinking skills to you.

Re: General populace V. Corporations
Once again, I assume you lack the ability to even read a rational thought since I already said that part of your research should include consumer reviews. I even gave you the score that CONSUMERS gave the last three years of the Jag XJ series. It should be an all of the above approach, experts, and customer reviews.

Re: S&P and Moodys
I have to ask ifi it is some kind of OCD impulse that you bring false arguements. S&P and Moodys are not the same company as JD Power or Consumer Reports. Hell, they aren't even in the same industry. They don't have anything to do with each other. How their improprieties fit in to an arguement that has to do with how cars are rated is beyond me. If you are trying to make the arguement that all corporations should be mistrusted because of the acts of these few, so be it. But you should not be on a computer, living in a home, or driving a car, because those corporations cannot be trusted. Maybe you should go and live on some land and hunt your own food, but you cant do that either because some cows in england had mad cow disease, so all animal meat cant be trusted. You should become a vegan. DAMN, there have been reports throughout history of diseased plants and crops, so you cant eat that. Perhaps you should see how long you can survive on water only. Ooops, water all over the world has been tainted, you cant trust that. I guess that is why people say that it is hard to live with paranoia and distrust, because all you can do in the end is die.

[Thunder Dan]

honestly, if you can't figure out what's wrong with this, then you are an idiot.

either way, you're an idiot.

I'm referring to people that don't try to flaunt their worth through the cars they drive, and Old money buy Cadillacs. Yuppies, the opposite of what I just described, don't. Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying

[CavsSuperFan]

Do you know anything about JD Power & associates? Have you ever been to JD Power & associates? There is not one employee who knows a volt from an ohm…I doubt that their resident experts could figure out how to change oil on a Chevy Suburban…

Don’t get me started on Consumers Union…The same gal that is trying out toasters one day is the resident expert on Variable Appreciative Life insurance the next day….

[CavsSuperFan]

I was hoping that we could do this all day…:depressed

[RandomGuy]

I'm referring to people that don't try to flaunt their worth through the cars they drive, and Old money buy Cadillacs. Yuppies, the opposite of what I just described, don't. Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying

Caddy's and ... Crown Vics.

I remember reading one of those "get rich quick by buying this book" books that said quite a few people who have successfully saved a lot of money did so because they avoided flashy cars and too-expensive houses.

The one car that a lot of them seemed to own was the Ford Crown Victoria.

(note: I used to work in bookstores, browsed a LOT on my breaks, and do not make a habit of buying get rich quick books, they suck)

[Biernutz]

In testing, The Buicks were only driven in the fast lane at 25mph with the blinker on. They last forever in that mode.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb270/systime/Gifffs1234/blinker.gif

[Blake]

Wait, I think I got it, the black people have to have money in order to buy a cadillac, so why seperate them from the first group (i.e. "people with money"), is that right?


....people with actual money and black people buy Cadillacs

maybe I misbolded the words the first time.....

because we all know black people are not people with actual money.

I'm glad we all had this talk.

[CavsSuperFan]

I was trying to find the thread where somebody claimed that Jaguar's were good cars... Someone was offend at the suggestion that Jaguar's were terrible cars & had pathetic resale value…Also That JD Powers is just a bunch of pencil pushing desk folks in Westlake CA who know nothing about cars….Well Here it is...

Jaguar is considered one of the worst cars of the decade….

Jaguar X-Type
2002-2008
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1071/worst-cars-of-the-2000s/


In the early 2000s, the class of entry-level luxury cars was growing. Most were sporty and started at $30,000 or less. Wanting in, Jaguar came out with the X-Type. From the get-go, critics warned that a cheap Jag would be bad for the brand and that Ford — which bought the company in 1989 — would probably cut corners and sacrifice quality. That was before they saw the product. Sharing its front-drive platform with a European Ford Mondeo, the X-Type was a too-small, not-so-sporty sedan with all-wheel drive that was hamstrung by some of the forewarned quality issues. The trap was clearly visible from miles away, and Ford walked right into it. A 2002 Jaguar X-Type can be had for up to $8,500. A 2002 Honda Civic goes for up to $9,275.

[exstatic]

Jaguar? Jaguar? Seriously?

Jaguar winning a reliability survey would be like the Clippers winning nine consecutive championships.

Win.

I always said that if I won the lottery, I'd like to get two Jaguars so I'd always have one running.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Japanese cars >>>>>>>>>>>>>> American cars

Always will be. The Japanese just know how to make better cars. No need to get offended, Japanese cars are far superior to any aussie crap as well. :smokin

[spurster]

Compared to 20-30 years ago, almost all cars are amazingly reliable. That said, I look at Consumer Reports for reliability, which has worked out pretty well for me. Who funds J. D. Power?