What this country has come to these days...

[sook]

I got a fucking ticket for going 1 mile over the speed limit :rollin :lmao:lol:lol 46 in a 45 ROFL

At first i thought the cop was joking considering the increments aren't even

that detailed but i guess the state is really desperate for money. I have to goto

court on the 1st of next month i wonder what I'm going to say :bking

[baseline bum]

End of the month, man.

[sook]

End of the month, man.

what does that mean? Sorry, i am a bit naive when it comes to these issues, elaborate.

[lefty]

I got a fucking ticket for going 1 mile over the speed limit :rollin :lmao:lol:lol 46 in a 45 ROFL

At first i thought the cop was joking considering the increments aren't even

that detailed but i guess the state is really desperate for money. I have to goto

court on the 1st of next month i wonder what I'm going to say :bking

Just tell the judge you were trying so hard to focus on not getting over the speed limit that you made a mistake

Or that you were listening to the radio and heard that the Spurs offered a 2 year extension to Finley

[Heath Ledger]

I got pulled over last week for an air freshener hanging from my reAr view mirror

[Oh, Gee!!]

country or county?

[smeagol]

Is there a stupider law than speed limits of 45 and 55 mph?

[sook]

Just tell the judge you were trying so hard to focus on not getting over the speed limit that you made a mistake

Or that you were listening to the radio and heard that the Spurs offered a 2 year extension to Finley

LOL, i think I'm just going to tell it like it is...i don't see how they could possibly give me a ticket. Its going to be interesting, to find out what they are going to do, and if they give me a fine, how much.

[sook]

Is there a stupider law than speed limits of 45 and 55 mph?

School Zones 20mph :bang:bang

[RandomGuy]

I got pulled over last week for an air freshener hanging from my reAr view mirror

Cops use stuff like this as an excuse to see if you have been drinking, or smell like marijuana or something.

They could give two shits in a deep hole about the air freshener.

[smeagol]

School Zones 20mph :bang:bang

Hey . . . the kids come first . . .

[RandomGuy]

I got a fucking ticket for going 1 mile over the speed limit :rollin :lmao:lol:lol 46 in a 45 ROFL

At first i thought the cop was joking considering the increments aren't even

that detailed but i guess the state is really desperate for money. I have to goto

court on the 1st of next month i wonder what I'm going to say :bking

You say "not guilty"

Insist on a jury trial.

I would bet some solid money that the prosecutor will look at that and dismiss it almost out of hand.

Be nice and polite, don't give the prosecutor your life story, and don't admit you are guilty no matter what.

The costs to the gov't of a jury trial for a 1mph speeding ticket exceed the fine.

My guess is that you were a smartass to the cop, because most law enforcement policy manuals tell cops to simply give you a warning for anything under 5 mph.

Either that or you have some bumper sticker that rubbed him/her the wrong way.

Is my guess correct?

[RandomGuy]

Hey . . . the kids come first . . .

I would simply say that if someone was speeding in my kids' school zone, and hit my kid, I would be... upset.

Texas is a very big place to hide dead carcasses. Just sayin'.

[baseline bum]

what does that mean? Sorry, i am a bit naive when it comes to these issues, elaborate.

Just being cynical... I'm guessing the police have some quotas they're supposed to meet each month.

[Purple & Gold]

Hey . . . the kids come first . . .

Well I'm glad you care for the kids.......

[InK]

LOL, i think I'm just going to tell it like it is...i don't see how they could possibly give me a ticket. Its going to be interesting, to find out what they are going to do, and if they give me a fine, how much.

Isn't there a 10% measure for speed-gun inaccuracy in place?

[smeagol]

Well I'm glad you care for the kids.......

Why wouldn't I?

[Crookshanks]

Definitely ask for a trial - and then ask when the radar gun was last calibrated. There's no way they can be that accurate - they have to consider the variations in speedometers.

[DarkReign]

This is only the beginning.

Police department's budgets nationwide are being slashed by state governments who are nearing bankruptcy.

Even before the economic meltdown, police departments used ticket-writing as a means to subsidize their individual departments and personnel.

If the state cuts their budget by 40%, then they have to either a) cut costs 40% thru layoffs, etc or b) make up as much of that 40% of lost revenue through other means.

Namely, on the back of the citizens by tickets, fines and license fees.

I used to not like cops when I was a teenager because I was doing things a teenager shouldnt be doing. Now, I dont like cops because a vast majority of them are incompetent, power-mongers and their entire reason for existence (to protect and serve the community) has become more about self-sufficiency than anything else.

Think about this.

We as citizens allow their existence and increase of power in the spirit of law and the greater good. Now, they see us as untapped resources of cash in an effort to justify and subsidize their existence.

Two solutions:

1) Decriminalize illegal drugs thereby ending this sad-sack War on Drugs. Overnight, their budgets become balanced and they actually increase revenue because possession becomes a fine-able offense (which most people will pay happily, compared to the alternative).

2) Cut entire police departments country wide (statewide if it does ya).

Obviously, I dont prefer #2. But the alternative to these options is what youre seeing right now, across the country.

Make no mistake, patrolmen are not happy with their department directives. They dont want to harass the citizenry, ticketing them for every offense they see (unless youre a rude prick, then they just take their time, enjoying it even more). Most officers know without a shadow of a doubt that 90% of the populace dislikes and distrusts them immensely.

The deputy who came over my house for fingerprints told me as much. He pretended to not understand why, but deep down, he knows.

After he made that exact comment (90% of people dont like us), I said to him "Well, and dont take offense to this, it might be because citizens view the police force as a thing of the past. That entity has been replaced by the current para-military force, masquerading as a police force, using surplus military equipment as a means to enforce law upon a civilian population that isnt nearly as hostile as its made out to be."

He was taken aback a bit, but then he responded with very true (i believed him anyway) accounts of having to get into fire-fights equipped only with their Glock 9mm against guys with semi-automatic assault rifles.

I conceded that point, asked the obvious question (Drug dealers? Yes.), and then subtly hinted at "Hows the War on Drugs going, btw?" He could see where the conversation was going.

I shutup and ended with "Look, first off, I have nothing but respect for authority when I am in its presence. When I am pulled over, when I am in court, when an officer is in my house, I am the most cooperative person in the room. But thats only because I dont break the law and have nothing to fear. My problem is, most times in life, perception is reality. Fair or unfair, thats the way it works. Perception says, police cant be trusted nor counted on. And sadly, whether through under-funding or other reasons, its true. When someone needs a cop, you arent around. But boy, you speed 5 miles over in a school zone, you bet your ass youre getting a ticket from the cop parked up the street with his radar gun."

"No, I dont sympathize with drug dealers and violent criminals or people dumb enough to try and run from cops. But I do sympathize for the people who live those areas who are good people, who couldnt speak up because you cant protect them. Perception says, the police are too busy increasing department revenue writing tickets to hard-working, working class folks to track and arrest criminals. Perception and common sense says, we all know why. Criminals cost money. Tickets to middle-class people with jobs makes money. And when your role in society changed from "law enforcement" to "revenue generator", the citizens stopped trusting or liking you."

Now, you might think I'm bullshitting.

That I didnt actually say all that, and to be fair, I did a lot of tip-toeing that cant be conveyed via text. But I did say it, and to be honest, I felt a helluva lot better after I said it.

He actually understood my point, though not agreeing with some of it. I mean, I couldnt blame him. While in my house, his radio blurts out every local call made. Mind you, hes a deputy of the sheriff, so theyre responsible for entire county patrol in some cases. Sounded like a shooting, a hit and run, a car chase, some naked drunk walking the streets and a fatal car crash.

If I had that radio piped into my ears day-in and day-out, I might be a bit ambivalent as well.

[Blake]

This is only the beginning.

Police department's budgets nationwide are being slashed by state governments who are nearing bankruptcy.

Even before the economic meltdown, police departments used ticket-writing as a means to subsidize their individual departments and personnel.

If the state cuts their budget by 40%, then they have to either a) cut costs 40% thru layoffs, etc or b) make up as much of that 40% of lost revenue through other means.

Namely, on the back of the citizens by tickets, fines and license fees.

They make up the difference usually by increasing the fines.



I used to not like cops when I was a teenager because I was doing things a teenager shouldnt be doing. Now, I dont like cops because a vast majority of them are incompetent, power-mongers and their entire reason for existence (to protect and serve the community) has become more about self-sufficiency than anything else.

Vast majority? Do you have a link or is this just your opinion?



Think about this.

We as citizens allow their existence and increase of power in the spirit of law and the greater good. Now, they see us as untapped resources of cash in an effort to justify and subsidize their existence.

Two solutions:

1) Decriminalize illegal drugs thereby ending this sad-sack War on Drugs. Overnight, their budgets become balanced and they actually increase revenue because possession becomes a fine-able offense (which most people will pay happily, compared to the alternative).

2) Cut entire police departments country wide (statewide if it does ya).

Obviously, I dont prefer #2. But the alternative to these options is what youre seeing right now, across the country.

3) raise fines



Make no mistake, patrolmen are not happy with their department directives. They dont want to harass the citizenry, ticketing them for every offense they see (unless youre a rude prick, then they just take their time, enjoying it even more). Most officers know without a shadow of a doubt that 90% of the populace dislikes and distrusts them immensely.

They aren't happy with their directives of pulling people over for speeding?

Why did they become cops in the first place?


The deputy who came over my house for fingerprints told me as much. He pretended to not understand why, but deep down, he knows.

After he made that exact comment (90% of people dont like us), I said to him "Well, and dont take offense to this, it might be because citizens view the police force as a thing of the past. That entity has been replaced by the current para-military force, masquerading as a police force, using surplus military equipment as a means to enforce law upon a civilian population that isnt nearly as hostile as its made out to be."

He was taken aback a bit, but then he responded with very true (i believed him anyway) accounts of having to get into fire-fights equipped only with their Glock 9mm against guys with semi-automatic assault rifles.

I conceded that point, asked the obvious question (Drug dealers? Yes.), and then subtly hinted at "Hows the War on Drugs going, btw?" He could see where the conversation was going.

I shutup and ended with "Look, first off, I have nothing but respect for authority when I am in its presence. When I am pulled over, when I am in court, when an officer is in my house, I am the most cooperative person in the room. But thats only because I dont break the law and have nothing to fear. My problem is, most times in life, perception is reality. Fair or unfair, thats the way it works. Perception says, police cant be trusted nor counted on. And sadly, whether through under-funding or other reasons, its true. When someone needs a cop, you arent around. But boy, you speed 5 miles over in a school zone, you bet your ass youre getting a ticket from the cop parked up the street with his radar gun."

"No, I dont sympathize with drug dealers and violent criminals or people dumb enough to try and run from cops. But I do sympathize for the people who live those areas who are good people, who couldnt speak up because you cant protect them. Perception says, the police are too busy increasing department revenue writing tickets to hard-working, working class folks to track and arrest criminals. Perception and common sense says, we all know why. Criminals cost money. Tickets to middle-class people with jobs makes money. And when your role in society changed from "law enforcement" to "revenue generator", the citizens stopped trusting or liking you."

Now, you might think I'm bullshitting.

That I didnt actually say all that, and to be fair, I did a lot of tip-toeing that cant be conveyed via text. But I did say it, and to be honest, I felt a helluva lot better after I said it.

He actually understood my point, though not agreeing with some of it. I mean, I couldnt blame him. While in my house, his radio blurts out every local call made. Mind you, hes a deputy of the sheriff, so theyre responsible for entire county patrol in some cases. Sounded like a shooting, a hit and run, a car chase, some naked drunk walking the streets and a fatal car crash.

If I had that radio piped into my ears day-in and day-out, I might be a bit ambivalent as well.

It's true that municipalities depend on speeding tickets as a revenue generator, but your hate for cops and calling them 'power mongers' is misplaced.

They get a set salary. We all know there is no commission. There are also no set quotas for handing out speeding tickets.

I'm betting that cop called you an ignorant dumbass as soon as he got in his car.

[Spur-Addict]

That sucks man, I just got out of a 60 in a 45 at 12:30 a.m this morning.

[Winehole23]

Part of the peculiar genius of our system of justice is its vendibility. I'm almost sure I swiped this insight from FW Maitland (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/maitland-formsofaction.html), but finding the citation won't be easy.

[DarkReign]

Vast majority? Do you have a link or is this just your opinion?

My opinion and experience, solely.


3) raise fines

Good point.


They aren't happy with their directives of pulling people over for speeding?

Why did they become cops in the first place?

Yes, they are unhappy. I personally know 3 cops, 1 being a detective (none too personal though). The patrolmen do not enjoy writing frivolous tickets. Which leads me to my next point....


It's true that municipalities depend on speeding tickets as a revenue generator, but your hate for cops and calling them 'power mongers' is misplaced.

They get a set salary. We all know there is no commission. There are also no set quotas for handing out speeding tickets.

...youre right. There are no set quotas, to be sure. But dont think for one fucking second they dont have the meetings every week about budget shortfalls, personnel loss, etc. Or that in those same meetings they dont go right from talking about the budget to new speed trap zones and extra vigilance in traffic offenses here-here-and-here on the map.

Its obvious to everyone but the guy who requires a written document stating quota goals that the seargents and lieutenants are looking for increases in tickets written.

Its not that difficult to pick up on innuendo.


I'm betting that cop called you an ignorant dumbass as soon as he got in his car.

Well, seeing as I dont much give a fuck what he thinks, nor you since you obviously feel the same way and think you know exactly what this particular officer was thinking at the time he left my house.

Since youre so damn clairvoyant, tell me Miss Cleo, hows he doing on my case? And should I expect to see him at the softball tournament this spring?

Dumbass. You dont know your ass from you elbow, genius.

[TIME_CUBE]

"Nothing on Earth more Evil
than a human educated as 1,
when composed of opposites
that cancel out as an entity."
In fact, man is the only 1 Evil,
and will soon erase himself by
ignoring Cubic 4 Day Creation.

[Winehole23]

The argument from Right to Remedy is reversed and Bracton's saying is truer if we make it run Tot erunt actiones quot sunt formulae brevium---the forms of action are given, the causes of action must be deduced therefrom.

[Blake]

Yes, they are unhappy. I personally know 3 cops, 1 being a detective (none too personal though). The patrolmen do not enjoy writing frivolous tickets. Which leads me to my next point....

what kind of frivolous tickets do they write on a regular basis that makes them unhappy?


...youre right. There are no set quotas, to be sure. But dont think for one fucking second they dont have the meetings every week about budget shortfalls, personnel loss, etc. Or that in those same meetings they dont go right from talking about the budget to new speed trap zones and extra vigilance in traffic offenses here-here-and-here on the map.

there are lots of different scenarios in different cities, towns and states around the country.

To assume that all officers in all towns get pressured into writing more tickets because they might lose their job is ignorant...

...especially when there is no quota.


Its obvious to everyone but the guy who requires a written document stating quota goals that the seargents and lieutenants are looking for increases in tickets written.

Its not that difficult to pick up on innuendo.

if that's the case, then why do they still issue warnings?

Why was one of the posters above bragging about how he just got out of a ticket doing 60 in a 45?


Well, seeing as I dont much give a fuck what he thinks, nor you since you obviously feel the same way and think you know exactly what this particular officer was thinking at the time he left my house.

Since youre so damn clairvoyant, tell me Miss Cleo, hows he doing on my case? And should I expect to see him at the softball tournament this spring?

You're the one that knows 3 cops, 1 being a detective. Why the hell are you asking me how your case is going?


Dumbass. You dont know your ass from you elbow, genius.

Link? Or is this another of your sweeping generalizations?

[DarkReign]

OK, fair enough.

I'll only speak for the Metro Detroit Area.


Grim economic conditions are forcing some communities to rely on traffic cops to increase revenue by writing more tickets, police and elected officials say.

"When I first started in this job 30 years ago, police work was never about revenue enhancement," Utica Police Chief Michael Reaves said. "But if you're a chief now, you have to look at whether your department produces revenues. That's just the reality nowadays."

A Detroit News analysis of court and police records from 2002-07 shows many Metro Detroit police departments have drastically increased the number of moving violations issued in what some people say is an effort to offset budget shortfalls caused by the sluggish economy.

Michigan has cut revenue sharing to communities by $3 billion over the past six budget years, a blow that's been exacerbated by skyrocketing costs and dwindling property values. Taylor Mayor Cameron Priebe, whose community has lost more than $10 million in state revenue sharing the past six years, says the tough conditions have caused city officials to turn to the Police Department for income.

"A portion of the tickets our officers write helps pay their salaries, but the rest is profit for the city," said Priebe, a former Taylor police officer. "'Profit' may not be the right word to use in government, but that's pretty much what it is.

"Obviously, revenue isn't the only reason our officers are out there -- but I wouldn't be telling the truth if I said it wasn't a consideration."
Drop-off seen in some areas

But in several communities in Metro Detroit -- which last year was named by the National Motorists Association as the worst metro area in the United States for speed traps -- the ticket increases have been extreme.

In 18 communities, the number of moving violations written has jumped by 50 percent or more over the past six years, and 11 of those municipalities have had increases of 90 percent or higher during that time.
Officer gains notoriety

Warren Officer David Kanapsky came under national media scrutiny recently when it was revealed he had written about 5,000 traffic tickets in 2007. Kanapsky, whose prolific ticket writing was highlighted in July on ABC's 20/20, accounted for nearly 10 percent of the city's ticket writing last year, when there were 54,100 tickets handed out in Warren -- a 20 percent increase over the 44,809 tickets written in 2002.

But Warren is hardly alone:

• In Romulus, there were 12,040 tickets written last year, which represented a 136 percent jump from the 5,091 violations written in 2002.

• The number of violations in Plymouth rose from 440 in 2002 to 2,584 in 2007, a 487 percent jump.

• In Detroit, there were 126,007 traffic tickets written in 2002, and 245,249 written in 2007.

• Southfield police wrote 13,724 tickets in 2002; in 2007 they wrote 31,795 tickets for an increase of 131 percent.

The population has increased in many Metro Detroit suburbs in recent years, which could explain the higher number of traffic tickets.

But there have been huge increases even in communities that have been largely built out for years. For instance, Dearborn Heights had a 60 percent jump in tickets written from 2002-07, while Livonia had a 49 percent jump.
Most money stays local

Most of the revenue from tickets written by State Police and county sheriffs goes into a state fund that's distributed to libraries across Michigan. But a huge portion of the money from tickets issued by most municipal police departments, determined by a complex formula, stays in those communities.

Municipalities must send $40 of each fine to the Michigan Justice Training Fund, which helps cover police training costs. The percentage of ticket revenue that communities may keep after that depends on the class of its district court, although most Metro Detroit communities keep all the money that's left over after the $40 assessment.

"When elected officials say, 'We need more money,' they can't look to the department of public works to raise revenues, so where do they find it? Police departments," said James Tagnanelli, president of the Police Officers Association of Michigan union.
Some dispute premise

While some police officials say there is more pressure to increase revenue, others say it's not true. Livonia Police Chief Robert Stevenson insists he has never been pressured by city officials to write more tickets.

Stevenson pointed out that traffic accidents have dropped 33 percent since 2003, the year he instituted a program of increased traffic enforcement.

"In Livonia, we average less than one homicide a year, but we have 14 or 15 people killed on our roads," Stevenson said. "Most homicides take place behind closed doors, so there's not much the police can do about them, anyway. If you truly want to make a difference, you need to put your resources into traffic patrols."

Still, Tagnanelli said he's hearing more complaints than ever from officers statewide who say they're being forced to issue more moving violations.

"Is there more pressure being applied to write tickets? Of course there is," Tagnanelli said. "I'm hearing that all the time now from officers. It's gotten much worse over the past five-six years."
Tickets upset drivers

Critics say the crackdown on motorists causes a rift between citizens and the police, and ties up officers who should be concentrating on preventing crime.

"It's getting ridiculous," said Jack Walker, a former Clarkston resident who was given two speeding tickets within a few weeks of each other last year in Orion Township.

"Police are using us as their fundraiser, and it's not right. They have more important things to do."

Trenton Police Sgt. Richard Lyons agreed.

"The people we count on to support us and help us when we're on the road are the ones who end up paying the bills, and they're ticked off about it," Lyons said.

"We might was well just go door-to-door and tell people, 'Slide us $100 now, since your 16-year-old is going to end up paying us anyway when he starts driving.' You can't blame people for getting upset.

"No politician wants to be the one to raise taxes, but if the community needs more money they should go ahead and raise taxes," Lyons said.

"At least that's more honorable than chasing down cars for doing five miles over the speed limit."

Said Reaves: "If someone is blowing through a subdivision doing 70 mph while children are playing, nobody is going to complain about the police giving that guy a ticket.

"There obviously is a need to patrol the roads -- it's just a matter of allowing your officers to use their judgment, rather than having them write tickets for every single violation."

Its a December 2008 article from the Detroit News that is no longer available online, so I cant provide a link. I found the article I was looking linked in blog/whatever.

I had read the same article the day it was published.

http://www.novi.org/Opinions/2008-12-03.htm

FYI, Novi is a suburb of Detroit.

Happy now?

[word]

I got a fucking ticket for going 1 mile over the speed limit :rollin :lmao:lol:lol 46 in a 45 ROFL

At first i thought the cop was joking considering the increments aren't even

that detailed but i guess the state is really desperate for money. I have to goto

court on the 1st of next month i wonder what I'm going to say :bking

Don't tell me, let me guess. You were in Windcrest ?

[DarkReign]

"Obviously, revenue isn't the only reason our officers are out there -- but I wouldn't be telling the truth if I said it wasn't a consideration."

Thus, the hard to pick up on innuendo, apparently.

[DarkReign]

"Is there more pressure being applied to write tickets? Of course there is," Tagnanelli said. "I'm hearing that all the time now from officers. It's gotten much worse over the past five-six years."
-James Tagnanelli, president of the Police Officers Association of Michigan union


More incredibly hard to believe innuendo, Im sure.

[Blake]

OK, fair enough.

I'll only speak for the Metro Detroit Area.



Its a December 2008 article from the Detroit News that is no longer available online, so I cant provide a link. I found the article I was looking linked in blog/whatever.

I had read the same article the day it was published.

http://www.novi.org/Opinions/2008-12-03.htm

FYI, Novi is a suburb of Detroit.

Happy now?

yeah, that's much better.

Inconsistencies and unfairness always suck, but at the end of the day, if you are driving under the speed limit and obeying all traffic laws, then you have nothing to worry about.

it's like the guy going 80 complaining about being pulled over when he got passed by another guy doing 90 that didnt get caught.

[Extra Stout]

yeah, that's much better.

Inconsistencies and unfairness always suck, but at the end of the day, if you are driving under the speed limit and obeying all traffic laws, then you have nothing to worry about.

it's like the guy going 80 complaining about being pulled over when he got passed by another guy doing 90 that didnt get caught.
"Hey, yesterday the speed limit on this road was 50. Why is it 25 now?"

[Extra Stout]

"Do you know why I pulled you over?"

"Presumably for speeding, but I'm sure I got down from 70 to 30 before I went past that tiny sign you put up."

"No, you weren't speeding, but dropping 40 mph that quickly is unsafe driving."

[Extra Stout]

"You can't change lanes within 100 feet of an intersection."

"I had to change lanes. There are orange cones blocking the left one."

"Tell it to the judge, lady."

[Extra Stout]

They can always, always get you if they want to.

[RandomGuy]

If they are writing that many tickets, they do not have the time to show up to court to testify.

Call them on their bluff, declare yourself not guilty and ask for a jury trial.

Personally, if I had nothing better to do with my life, I would start a grassroots "ask for a trial" movement in places with shitty speed traps like that.

If majority or even significant minority of people who were given those tickets asked for a jury trial, there is no way in hell that you can find that many retirees and housewives to sit on even a petit (6 person) jury.

[RandomGuy]

Pay for a billboard opposite the courthouse saying "this city doesn't have the jurors to take everybody to trial for every speeding ticket who asks for one."

Personally I have always referred to speeding tickets as "speeding tax levies".

That is essentially what they are. May as well just formalize it. Put a meter on your speedometer. Drive as fast as you want, but for every mph over the speed limit you drive, you will pay X cents per mile, and that rate goes up the faster you go, with the sole exception being school zones, where you will be taken from your car and beaten on the spot for anything over 4 mph.

[DarkReign]

...with the sole exception being school zones, where you will be taken from your car and beaten on the spot for anything over 4 mph.

:lmao

[Blake]

Personally I have always referred to speeding tickets as "speeding tax levies".

That is essentially what they are. May as well just formalize it.

the difference being is that the more tickets you get, the more that your fines will increase and can eventually end in getting your license suspended....

but point taken