What happens if Obama succeeds?

[George Gervin's Afro]

What will all those people who said the America would become a socialist country and it doesn't? What if all of this spending does turn the economy around? What about those who said they hoped his policies failed? Anyone of you ever thought about that? Please save the blogs that will say this will happen or repeat some entertainer who proclaims that the end of america is near. They nor you know what will happen. So I guess if I were one of these people I would have figure out how to save face just in case Obama does succeed.

[Bukefal]

They will probably not try to save their face, they will just find other stupid remarks

[mogrovejo]

Spending almost always turn the economy around, it's just a matter of spending enough. The problem is that someone will have to pay the bill and the growth isn't healthy.

America already is a socialist country. And sooner or later they'll have to inflate their way out of this mess. And when inflation does its dirty job, you'll have the most massive wealth redistribution in the history of mankind - and not the kind of one "socialists" defend.

[Homeland Security]

When the economy turns around, it will be because Bush's policies simply needed time to work, and they were so robust they worked in spite of Obama.

See how easy it is?

[101A]

What will all those people who said the America would become a socialist country and it doesn't? What if all of this spending does turn the economy around? What about those who said they hoped his policies failed? Anyone of you ever thought about that? Please save the blogs that will say this will happen or repeat some entertainer who proclaims that the end of america is near. They nor you know what will happen. So I guess if I were one of these people I would have figure out how to save face just in case Obama does succeed.

Just because you don't think something will works means it is necessary to save face if it does.

If Obama's policies have the effect he, and you, are hoping for: more prosperity for all while maintaining a thriving, growing free-market system? I will celebrate because I will be a part of that system. Further, I will admit that at least some, if not most, of my assumptions about what motivates and drives our economy, as well as what history teaches us, are wrong - that Obama was/is right, and thank God for that. I will not be happy if people who believe like I do are right; there will be no joy in, "I told you so".

[boutons_deux]

"socialism" is the current fear-mongering robot-speak by conservatives and fellow-travelling dumbfucks and sheeple.

Note that it is never defined, just bandied about. And applied only to non-Repug, non-conservative ideas and projects, while ignoring the whatever-it-is "socialism" as applied to conservative ideas and projects.

St Ronnie was a socialist, raising taxes on the lower 95% (regressive SocSec) and redistributing upward via tax cuts for the rich (SocSec capped for wealthy), while subsidizing the MIC with his StarWars bullshit, which remains today a fairy tale chased after by the Repugs.

[angrydude]

lol, of course its going to "work" if you think "working" means the economy will "get better" in the next 3 years. There is no way it couldn't work eventually.

The response to the dot.com bust "worked" too if you count 6 more borrowed years of happiness as "working"

Problem is what you call "working", I call failure, because you aren't looking big picture.

the next time this cycle repeats itself we are f***ed. we were almost f***ed this time, but this time the world was gracious enough to bail us out again. But they've gotten wind of our game--the wool we've been pulling over their eyes is gone. next time we won't be so lucky.

[balli]

I will not be happy if people who believe like I do are right; there will be no joy in, "I told you so".
Me? I can't fucking wait.

And the answer is that Republicanism will go the way of the dinosaurs. If it hasn't already.

[101A]

Me? I can't fucking wait.

And the answer is that Republicanism will go the way of the dinosaurs. If it hasn't already.

No. If conservatives are right they will be vindicated, but fucked, just like the rest of the country.

It seems you take joy in the country doing poorly under an opposing party's rule.

Sad for you.

[johnsmith]

Me? I can't fucking wait.

And the answer is that Republicanism will go the way of the dinosaurs. If it hasn't already.

No, the current bastardized version of Republicanism that has infested our government will go the way of the dinosaur and the old school Republicans will come back into the mix.

[balli]

No. If conservatives are right they will be vindicated, but fucked, just like the rest of the country.

It seems you take joy in the country doing poorly under an opposing party's rule.

Sad for you.
In case you haven't heard, the party I oppose isn't ruling anything these days. And no, Bush was the single most tragic event I've ever borne witness to. I have never been happy about his wanton destruction of America.

[balli]

No, the current bastardized version of Republicanism that has infested our government will go the way of the dinosaur and the old school Republicans will come back into the mix.

Than it will be libertarianism or the constitution party that brings it [edit: Goldwater Conservatism] back. The GOP is a dead man walking.

[DarrinS]

Bush started this Socialist revolution, Obama is just accelerating it.


I'm against bailouts, regardless what political party is in control.

[balli]

Bush started this Socialist revolution, Obama is just accelerating it.


I'm against bailouts, regardless what political party is in control.
I don't know if you have living parents or are near retirement yourself, but I can also assume you're fine with all of your and their savings completely evaporating then? Along with every shred of quality of life? Me, I'd prefer my parents not work to their deathbed in a cold and economically destitute third world. That's just me.

[DarrinS]

I don't know if you have living parents or are near retirement yourself, but I can also assume you're fine with all of your and their savings completely evaporating then? Along with every shred of quality of life? Me, I'd prefer my parents not work to their deathbed in a cold and economically destitute third world. That's just me.



I lost a third of my 401k in a 3-month period of 2008. I'm pretty much financially strapped at this point. Given my current financial situation, maybe I should open up several dozen credit card accounts and go on a crazy spending spree. That's nearly equivalent to what this admin is doing.

[101A]

I don't know if you have living parents or are near retirement yourself, but I can also assume you're fine with all of your and their savings completely evaporating then? Along with every shred of quality of life? Me, I'd prefer my parents not work to their deathbed in a cold and economically destitute third world. That's just me.

The entire World is in financial meltdown. Many countrys are much worse off than ours.

In you view is it:

1. A COINCIDENCE that our economy AND the rest of the World's economy are in the shitter AT THE SAME TIME since Bush and the Republicans are responsible for ours, but not the rest of the World's.

OR

2. Bush and the Republicans are responsible for the entire World's economic woes.

If you blame Bush and Republicans for this, you MUST believe one of those scenarios. Which is it? (please defend your position)

[balli]

2. Bush and the Republicans are more than partially responsible for the entire World's economic woes.
That. As America goes, the world goes.

[101A]

That. As America goes, the world goes.

What did they do, specifically, to cause this?

[balli]

I'm not going to take the time to repeat all the knowledge that Random has dropped on me in the past few months, but I'll actually blame a hell of a lot of this mess on Greenspan andf the autonomy with which republicans, executive and congressional allowed him to operate.

The more pertinent question in my mind isn't what they did to cause it, but what did they do to prevent it?

The writing was on the wall, they had the time, but Bush was too busy for 8 years pretending to be a fighter pilot while his fucked up vice president was sitting in a paranoid bunker planning to take over the world.

If you want better answers than that, pull your head out your ass and go read some old threads.

[Yonivore]

What will all those people who said the America would become a socialist country and it doesn't? What if all of this spending does turn the economy around? What about those who said they hoped his policies failed? Anyone of you ever thought about that? Please save the blogs that will say this will happen or repeat some entertainer who proclaims that the end of america is near. They nor you know what will happen. So I guess if I were one of these people I would have figure out how to save face just in case Obama does succeed.
If all that happens, I'll just have to ask Gary Larson to write me out of future episodes.

[mogrovejo]

Blaming Bush or the republicans for the house bubble is incredible short-sighted. Greenspan, yeah, kind of, but how many people actually disagreed with him, dems or republicans? How many central bank governors were more conservative than him? How many disagreed with his vision that it was easier to deal with a bubble burst after the fact than trying to prevent it?

As for the non-regulation of CDOs and CDSs, that law was signed by Larry Summers, who's now Obama's economic advisor and was Clinton's Secretary of Treasury. At least, there's shared responsibility.

And why can't we blame those who promoted and promulgated legislation that incentives banks to loan money to poor people? Or maybe David X. Li, because he invented a formula that traders didn't understand? The blaming game is silly...

Anyway, it's amazing that when a bubble burst and a crisis implodes there are always so many people ready to point fingers and so sure of who should share the blame. Because very rarely those people predicted the burst to happen. Except Roubini I guess, but Roubini predicted 10 of the last 1 depressions.

[cool hand]

Blaming Bush or the republicans for the house bubble is incredible short-sighted. Greenspan, yeah, kind of, but how many people actually disagreed with him, dems or republicans? How many central bank governors were more conservative than him? How many disagreed with his vision that it was easy to deal with a bubble burst after the fact than trying to prevent it?

As for the non-regulamentation of CDOs and CDSs, that law was signed by Larry Summers, who's now Obama's economic advisor and was Clinton's Secretary of Treasury. At least, there's shared responsibility.

And why can't we blame those who promoted and promulgated legislation that incentives banks to loan money to poor people? Or maybe David X. Li, because he invented a formula that traders didn't understand? The blaming game is silly...

Anyway, it's amazing that when a bubble burst and a crisis implodes there are always so many people ready to point fingers and so sure of who should share the blame. Because very rarely those people predicted the burst to happen. Except Roubini I guess, but Roubini predicted 10 of the last 1 depressions.


Phil Gramm.

[mogrovejo]

Phil Gramm.

Also, he's one of the co-sponsors of the legislation signed by Summers that left the derivatives unregulated.

The problem with regulation is that nobody never knows what markets are going to invent. The regulations are always perfect to prevent the past crisis from repeating, but they always fail to prevent the next ones.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Also, he's one of the co-sponsors of the legislation signed by Summers that left the derivatives unregulated.

The problem with regulation is that nobody never knows what markets are going to invent. The regulations are always perfect to prevent the past crisis from repeating, but they always fail to prevent the next ones.

It's funny. Democrats were in charge of Congress the last two years and could have acted on some of this stuff. But they didn't.

It's funny reading the simpletons on this forum that want to lay all the blame on Bush or all the blame on Obama. People need to wake the fuck up and realize none of the assholes in D.C. care about any of us on this forum, just giving enough lip service to the easily swayed on the nightly news so they can get re-elected.

[Wild Cobra]

I lost a third of my 401k in a 3-month period of 2008. I'm pretty much financially strapped at this point. Given my current financial situation, maybe I should open up several dozen credit card accounts and go on a crazy spending spree. That's nearly equivalent to what this admin is doing.
Then I think you can get a lawful bailout if you exceeded $10,000!

[micca]

I'm begining to wonder if the economy isn't being enginered to fail, in order to create crisis, so the ruling elite can the use the 'crisis" to implement changes they could never hope to implement through the ballot box.

[Yonivore]

I'm begining to wonder if the economy isn't being enginered to fail, in order to create crisis, so the ruling elite can the use the 'crisis" to implement changes they could never hope to implement through the ballot box.
Yes, one wonders...


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/03/25/article-1164771-0417269C000005DC-188_233x423.jpg

'I'm having a very good crisis,' says Soros as hedge fund managers make billions off recession (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1164771/Im-having-good-crisis-says-hedge-fund-manager-1billion-world-plunged-recession.html)

[Jacob1983]

I think it's stupid for a person to want their president to fail. If the president fails, then America is going to fail. You should want your president to be successful and not suck no matter if he is a Democrat or Republican. However, it's okay to say that you want socialism or communism to fail in America because we have a democracy here.

[Yonivore]

I think it's stupid for a person to want their president to fail. If the president fails, then America is going to fail. You should want your president to be successful and not suck no matter if he is a Democrat or Republican. However, it's okay to say that you want socialism or communism to fail in America because we have a democracy here.
Well, considering Obama is advocating the nationalization of healthcare, banking, energy, and education -- thereby, creating a crude socialism, of sorts, I say his aims are counter to our country's and, yes, I want him to fail...so our Republic can prevail.

[Epic Fail Guy]

He can't succeed as long as I'm around!

[Don Quixote]

Well, considering Obama is advocating the nationalization of healthcare, banking, energy, and education -- thereby, creating a crude socialism, of sorts, I say his aims are counter to our country's and, yes, I want him to fail...so our Republic can prevail.

I agree. I think it's safe to say we all want certain people to succeed, and certain ones to fail. Let's just be honest.

And I want the ones with whom I agree to succeed, and the ones with whom I disagree (or who want to destroy us and our way of life) to fail. Epically.

[ChumpDumper]

Eh, Republicans already failed horribly. Hopefully someone else can succeed.

[florige]

It's funny. Democrats were in charge of Congress the last two years and could have acted on some of this stuff. But they didn't.

It's funny reading the simpletons on this forum that want to lay all the blame on Bush or all the blame on Obama. People need to wake the fuck up and realize none of the assholes in D.C. care about any of us on this forum, just giving enough lip service to the easily swayed on the nightly news so they can get re-elected.



That I agree with.

[DarrinS]

I want the US economy to succeed. If that means Obama policies must fail, then so be it.


Personally, I want to see an all-out effort focused on the economy vs. loading trillions into a shotgun and seeing "what sticks".

[101A]

It's funny. Democrats were in charge of Congress the last two years and could have acted on some of this stuff. But they didn't.

It's funny reading the simpletons on this forum that want to lay all the blame on Bush or all the blame on Obama. People need to wake the fuck up and realize none of the assholes in D.C. care about any of us on this forum, just giving enough lip service to the easily swayed on the nightly news so they can get re-elected.


545 PEOPLE
By Charlie Reese
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party. What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. The Speaker and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can not replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in IRAQ , it's because they want them in IRAQ

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.

Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.

We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper