View Full Version : Fall Out of Love w/ the Damn 3 Ball
RobinsontoDuncan
03-29-2009, 09:21 PM
WTF? I remember a time when Manu drove the ball more than twice a game, when Pop recognized Duncan destroying a team on the blocks and kept the ball going to him, and the Spurs not jacking up 3 after 3 after 3 until they lazyed their way out of a ball game.
This team has lost its soul
Stand
03-29-2009, 09:46 PM
It did seem like we were shooting ourselves out of the game, but then again those two late threes at the end got us right back in it.
DynastyBuilder
03-29-2009, 09:49 PM
I hate that the team has turned into a primarily jump shooting team. When the jumper is off we lose. Take the ball to the basket!
:pctoss
Spurs Brazil
03-29-2009, 09:49 PM
We must shoot all those 3s tonight. More than half of those were WIDE open, but guys missed time and time again
7-29.
Can't win like that son.
Pack it up and try again Tuesday.
mazerrackham
03-29-2009, 09:51 PM
Yeah, I think the only three throughout the ENTIRE game I had a problem with was Bonner's three during crunch time, that needs to be Tony pick and roll, or Manu driving, or Duncan posting...the rest were wide open and as we make the second best percentage in the reason, it would be stupid to not take them.
ElNono
03-29-2009, 09:54 PM
We're built to be a 3 point shooting team. Bonner, Finley, Mason, Bowen, Udoka... all spot us 3 point shooters. And when teams clog up the lane, like the Lakers and NOH, it gets even worse. When we hit we win easy, but when it doesn't go in it's a struggle. You're gonna have to learn to live with this, because that's how this team has been designed. The idea is that when Tim is doubled we make them pay with high percentage shooters. That's what we're going to the playoffs with...
MannyIsGod
03-29-2009, 09:55 PM
This roster is what it is and it will live or die by the 3. Matt Bonner isn't going to change overnight and neither if Finley. Lamenting the Spurs love affair with the 3 should be done in the offseason, not a few weeks before the playoffs.
Pray they fall.
Spurs Brazil
03-29-2009, 09:55 PM
Yeah, I think the only three throughout the ENTIRE game I had a problem with was Bonner's three during crunch time, that needs to be Tony pick and roll, or Manu driving, or Duncan posting...the rest were wide open and as we make the second best percentage in the reason, it would be stupid to not take them.
That was a stupid shot by Bonner
TDMVPDPOY
03-29-2009, 09:58 PM
fuck the 3 ball, we had alot of good clean looks in this game, but the ball didnt go in :(
That was a stupid shot by Bonner
Bonner didn't call his own number on that play. And if you have it recorded, take a second look. It was a piss-poor pass that made Bonner reach way to his left, which gave the defender a chance to close on the shot.
I don't like the shot selection, but don't lay it all on Bonner.
mexicanjunior
03-29-2009, 09:59 PM
This team will not go anywhere relying so heavily on the 3. It will be 2 and done...
spurspokesman
03-29-2009, 10:02 PM
We're built to be a 3 point shooting team. Bonner, Finley, Mason, Bowen, Udoka... all spot us 3 point shooters. And when teams clog up the lane, like the Lakers and NOH, it gets even worse. When we hit we win easy, but when it doesn't go in it's a struggle. You're gonna have to learn to live with this, because that's how this team has been designed. The idea is that when Tim is doubled we make them pay with high percentage shooters. That's what we're going to the playoffs with...
Sad but true.:hat
This roster is what it is and it will live or die by the 3. Matt Bonner isn't going to change overnight and neither if Finley. Lamenting the Spurs love affair with the 3 should be done in the offseason, not a few weeks before the playoffs.
Pray they fall.
+ Juan
That's how this team was built. It's been part of the Spurs formula to surround Duncan with shooters. You shoot 7-29 you're just not gonna win.
mexicanjunior
03-29-2009, 10:07 PM
+ Juan
That's how this team was built. It's been part of the Spurs formula to surround Duncan with shooters. You shoot 7-29 you're just not gonna win.
2007 and prior, this team would have gutted out a win by driving and drawing fouls. Now, they are relying on Bonner and Finley to take crunch time 3's to stay in games. That is a recipe for disaster...
Interrohater
03-29-2009, 10:09 PM
Fuck that. How can you change the make-up of this team? It's been that way for a long time, it's nothing new. Some of you guys overreact big time at a loss and get silly drunk at a win. Treat the games the way the Spurs do, don't get really excited until the playoffs. We're just in a three-point shooting slump, we'll be good.
2007 and prior, this team would have gutted out a win by driving and drawing fouls. Now, they are relying on Bonner and Finley to take crunch time 3's to stay in games. That is a recipe for disaster...
Finley has been taking crunch time 3's since he arrived in SA...and Bonner shoots it at 45% from outside.
45% from downtown doesnt exactly look like a recipe for disaster. The second best 3pt shooting team in the league shot 24% from 3...that usually means a loss. Sometimes they just don't fall.
SouthTexasRancher
03-29-2009, 10:10 PM
We must shoot all those 3s tonight. More than half of those were WIDE open, but guys missed time and time again
That seems to be happening a lot the past few weeks. It is getting damn old...! The Spurs are going to go the way the Oklahoma Sooners did today. WE are starting to SUCK BigTime!!!
2007 and prior, this team would have gutted out a win by driving and drawing fouls. Now, they are relying on Bonner and Finley to take crunch time 3's to stay in games. That is a recipe for disaster...
In order to draw fouls, the refs have to blow their whistles. Of all the top guards in the league, Tony gets the least FT attempts, by a big margin. It changes the whole complexion of games. If the other team gets a few fouls called on them, they have to back off a little. One thing leads to another.
Hooks
03-29-2009, 10:13 PM
Besides Parker and Ginobili we have NOBODY that can penetrate. We have no athletic players that can drive it in, we did have Bonsu but we got rid of him. Finley does it once and a while, but he's always wide open at the corner so he has to take the three.
We need more young strong athletic players.
Aggie Hoopsfan
03-29-2009, 10:18 PM
Somewhere Phil Jackson is smiling.
of course He is. We have TD in one leg and besides him We have the softest Center in franchise History.
I can't stand watching Bonner jacking so many 3s instead of being fighting on the boards. Im done with the Mofo.
Does that mean you aren't gonna buy his jersey? Or does that mean you're not gonna say "yeah, go bonner!" during games??
Cant_Be_Faded
03-29-2009, 10:28 PM
WTF? I remember a time when Manu drove the ball more than twice a game, when Pop recognized Duncan destroying a team on the blocks and kept the ball going to him, and the Spurs not jacking up 3 after 3 after 3 until they lazyed their way out of a ball game.
This team has lost its soul
Dude, that's just who we are this year.
mexicanjunior
03-29-2009, 10:29 PM
Finley has been taking crunch time 3's since he arrived in SA...and Bonner shoots it at 45% from outside.
45% from downtown doesnt exactly look like a recipe for disaster. The second best 3pt shooting team in the league shot 24% from 3...that usually means a loss. Sometimes they just don't fall.
When it isn't working and the Spurs continue to force the 3 anyway...that is always a recipe for disaster.
naver did,never will(on both subjets.)
So how can you be "done" with him, if you never started with him? Are you gonna ignore him if you see him out at Jim's one day?
When it isn't working and the Spurs continue to force the 3 anyway...that is always a recipe for disaster.
It's hard not to "force" a wide open shot. I, as well as the rest of the fan base would have been upset if guys who shoot in the 40% range were passing up wide open looks.
mexicanjunior
03-29-2009, 10:36 PM
It's hard not to "force" a wide open shot. I, as well as the rest of the fan base would have been upset if guys who shoot in the 40% range were passing up wide open looks.
Considering the Hornets had no real inside presence on defense, it baffles me that they could not find a way to take advantage of it with penetration. If the Hornets sagged everyone inside, at least spot up Mason out there for the open looks. Udoka, Bonner and Finley just cannot be counted on when the game is in the balance to hit those shots. What is Bonner's 3pt FG% in the 4th quarter? Anyone know?
Spursmania
03-29-2009, 10:37 PM
So how can you be "done" with him, if you never started with him? Are you gonna ignore him if you see him out at Jim's one day?
Bonner at fucking Jim's:lol
bigkevrocks31
03-29-2009, 10:40 PM
We shhot threes like the fucking orlando magic
way too many!
SenorSpur
03-29-2009, 11:03 PM
Blame Pop for this. He has convinced this squad that the 3-ball is their most effective weapon or winning. Sounds like he's borrowed a page out of his mentor, Nellie's, playbook.
I understand he wants to spread the court and open it up for Duncan, yet the problem is Duncan is currently NOT the first option. TP is. In his current state, Duncan can no longer command double teams. Opposing teams can now play him straight up and sit on the shooters beyond the arc.
Now that this situation has evolved, the roster hasn't evolved with it. Pop has a bunch a 3-ball chuckers and very few slashers.
YoMamaIsCallin
03-30-2009, 12:00 AM
Are ya nuts? The 3-point shot is a tremendously effective weapon. The Spurs are the #1 or #2 team in the league at 3-point efficiency. It is not a matter of pride or soul, it's a matter of winning ballgames.
Last night's game was a statistical blip, that's all. Everybody had a bad shooting night all together. It happens.
If the Spurs hit their 3s, they win almost every time. That's the way it is. That's who they are.
Austin_Toros
03-30-2009, 12:18 AM
WTF? I remember a time when Manu drove the ball more than twice a game, when Pop recognized Duncan destroying a team on the blocks and kept the ball going to him, and the Spurs not jacking up 3 after 3 after 3 until they lazyed their way out of a ball game.
This team has lost its soul
I'm not so sure. I think the spurs tried to get a shooting team around Duncan. Just think back to when we had Brent Barry, or what Mike Fin has been doing for the spurs.
Is this a bad thing?
Spur|n|Austin
03-30-2009, 12:26 AM
keep shooting the three.. we're second in the league in percentage for a reason, the guys just had an off night, that doesn't mean quit shooting the trey ball.
Texas_Ranger
03-30-2009, 12:27 AM
29 attempts is too much!
i don't mind spurs shooting open threes, which they get a lot of. parker's drive and kicks plus duncan's pass out of the double team nets a lot of three point shots. it's the spurs' job to hit those open 3's. i saw udoka and bonner bricking a lot of open three point attempts. need to put in players that can make open threes under pressure like bowen and mason.
Capt Bringdown
03-30-2009, 02:24 AM
Now that this situation has evolved, the roster hasn't evolved with it. Pop has a bunch a 3-ball chuckers and very few slashers.
I think we can say that the situation has devolved, as in we don't have as many options as we used to...That's a long way around the barn to say we probably aren't a championship team anymore. It seems most people agree that the Spurs best prospects for ring #5 is "anything can happen." Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
It's a shame because while our defense has deteriorated, it might be adequate, but sometimes we forget that you have to score baskets in order to win games it seems...
whottt
03-30-2009, 02:54 AM
The 3 ball is not the problem, the shooter's that can't knock down open ones are. The Spurs win titles when they have guys that can hit open threes...and they usually fail to win them when they don't.
There's no excuse for not hitting open threes when your job it to hit them...it's simply choking.
Lost our soul? Well our soul as it pertains to winning championships has always included guys like Mario Elie, Steve Kerr, Jaren Jackson...Stephen Jackson, Brent Barry, Robert Horry etc.
We won titles because those guys either hit their open threes, or were good enough to where they weren't left open to take them, thus freeing up Duncan to dominate...and thinning out the paint for guard penetration.
Our soul? If you left Stephen Jackson open from 3, he was going to hit it, and it's the difference between that team winning a title, and the team with Hedo not.
If our shooters are left open and not hitting their threes...there will be no guard penetration, because the reason the 3 shooters are open is because their men are clogging the paint to harass Duncan, or keep Parker and Manu out of it, instead.
When Parker or Manu drive into crowded paint...it usually ends up in a TO.
The shooters need to hit their open threes...that is our soul as it pertains to winning championships...always has been.
MannyIsGod
03-30-2009, 03:59 AM
The 3 ball is not the problem, the shooter's that can't knock down open ones are. The Spurs win titles when they have guys that can hit open threes...and they usually fail to win them when they don't.
There's no excuse for not hitting open threes when your job it to hit them...it's simply choking.
Lost our soul? Well our soul as it pertains to winning championships has always included guys like Mario Elie, Steve Kerr, Jaren Jackson...Stephen Jackson, Brent Barry, Robert Horry etc.
We won titles because those guys either hit their open threes, or were good enough to where they weren't left open to take them, thus freeing up Duncan to dominate...and thinning out the paint for guard penetration.
Our soul? If you left Stephen Jackson open from 3, he was going to hit it, and it's the difference between that team winning a title, and the team with Hedo not.
If our shooters are left open and not hitting their threes...there will be no guard penetration, because the reason the 3 shooters are open is because their men are clogging the paint to harass Duncan, or keep Parker and Manu out of it, instead.
When Parker or Manu drive into crowded paint...it usually ends up in a TO.
The shooters need to hit their open threes...that is our soul as it pertains to winning championships...always has been.
Over the past 3 years the Spurs have shot a lot more 3s than earlier in the Duncan era. The past 3 years its been about 19.5 3s attempted per game where prior to that it was much lower - around 15.
I generally agree with you and when you have a big man who has an excellent post game you need to have shooters to open the middle for him. See Shaq and Hakeem for more proof. The Spurs are never going to have an offense like the Celtics or Lakers because of their core personal.
In any event, I think the return of Manu gives someone else who can reliably penetrate but its not going to matter if the opposition clogs the lane and dares RMJ and Bonner to beat them.
Yuixafun
03-30-2009, 07:54 AM
I saw some potential.
When Bonner went out with foul trouble early and Drew Gooden relieved him.
Manu fed a sick pass to him in the post he wasn't ready for and he fumbled the ball.
A few posessions later, Manu did the same thing, but this time Gooden was ready for it and scored.
Too bad D-West was making Gooden his bitch.
LockBeard
03-30-2009, 10:52 AM
The Spurs turning into a jump shooting team is to America finally going completely socialist.
The end of greatness.
It really sucks to watch how much Duncan has digressed.
Bigzax
03-30-2009, 11:29 AM
expect more bruce pt and more manu drives come playoff time.
the role players need to do their job and hit the open shots.
udoka, mason, bonner, finley: 3-18 ain't gonna cut it.
on any given night,
you need at least ONE of those players to man up and hit their shots.
rascal
03-30-2009, 11:31 AM
Bonner didn't call his own number on that play. And if you have it recorded, take a second look. It was a piss-poor pass that made Bonner reach way to his left, which gave the defender a chance to close on the shot.
I don't like the shot selection, but don't lay it all on Bonner.
Bonner should never be getting any shot of importance.
SenorSpur
03-30-2009, 11:42 AM
Personally and based upon previous evidence, I don't have any faith in Bonner to hit open threes against superior teams. In practically every games versus the Fakers, they've geared their offense to shutting down Parker's penetrations and have practically dared Bonner to shoot. He's come up virtually empty.
SenorSpur
03-30-2009, 11:44 AM
The 3 ball is not the problem, the shooter's that can't knock down open ones are. The Spurs win titles when they have guys that can hit open threes...and they usually fail to win them when they don't.
There's no excuse for not hitting open threes when your job it to hit them...it's simply choking.
Lost our soul? Well our soul as it pertains to winning championships has always included guys like Mario Elie, Steve Kerr, Jaren Jackson...Stephen Jackson, Brent Barry, Robert Horry etc.
We won titles because those guys either hit their open threes, or were good enough to where they weren't left open to take them, thus freeing up Duncan to dominate...and thinning out the paint for guard penetration.
Our soul? If you left Stephen Jackson open from 3, he was going to hit it, and it's the difference between that team winning a title, and the team with Hedo not.
If our shooters are left open and not hitting their threes...there will be no guard penetration, because the reason the 3 shooters are open is because their men are clogging the paint to harass Duncan, or keep Parker and Manu out of it, instead.
When Parker or Manu drive into crowded paint...it usually ends up in a TO.
The shooters need to hit their open threes...that is our soul as it pertains to winning championships...always has been.
True, but actually Manu is part of the problem in that he's taking more 3's now than at any other time in his career. That leaves Tony as the only true penetrating slasher.
spurtech09
03-30-2009, 12:01 PM
eventually they will fall....the spurs did miss alot of open 3's but yeah spurs should drive to the hoop more.....
2Cleva
03-30-2009, 12:01 PM
The issue is Duncan and Manu falling off because of age/injuries combined with the reputation of the 3point shooters.
With guys in the past, teams were afraid to leave them and as a result Tim (and later on Manu) had more room to operate. It was truly pick your poison.
With the Spurs of this year - no one is afraid of their shooters. So instead of sticking to them and allowing the Spurs 3 to work inside, they are clogging and just running out to the shooters.
If these same guys were with Tim and Manu in their prime it wouldn't be a problem. If SA had shooters the league feared right now, it wouldn't be a problem. But the combo likely dooms the Spurs in the playoffs.
crc21209
03-30-2009, 12:09 PM
The issue is Duncan and Manu falling off because of age/injuries combined with the reputation of the 3point shooters.
With guys in the past, teams were afraid to leave them and as a result Tim (and later on Manu) had more room to operate. It was truly pick your poison.
With the Spurs of this year - no one is afraid of their shooters. So instead of sticking to them and allowing the Spurs 3 to work inside, they are clogging and just running out to the shooters.
If these same guys were with Tim and Manu in their prime it wouldn't be a problem. If SA had shooters the league feared right now, it wouldn't be a problem. But the combo likely dooms the Spurs in the playoffs.
Ahh look what I found here...another negative post by 2Cleva, because his team is so "unstoppable" right? :rolleyes
Extra Stout
03-30-2009, 12:12 PM
The Spurs are who they are. They are not a defensive-oriented team with an all-time elite post player as the focal point of the offense, and elite penetrating wings as the secondary options. That's what they used to be when they won championships.
Now they are a team built around a score-first point guard. When he is on, he can light it up inside or outside, and requires defensive attention that makes penetrate-and-kick really effective, and the perimeter shooters can really light it up. When he's not on, the team has to slow the pace way down, and hope a few lucky shots go down. Their all-time elite post player is so hampered by injury that he is merely above average right now, a 15 and 8 guy not requiring that much defensive attention. The other elite penetrating wing is so hampered by injury and age that he is often just another perimeter shooter.
Unless the coach is also a magic wizard who can heal injuries and reverse aging with spells and incantations, I don't really know what he is supposed to do about it. The Big Three is now the Big One and the Medium Two, and for the first time since his rookie season, Duncan is not the team's focal point on the floor. As marvelous as Parker has been this year, I think his emergence has as much to do with Duncan's decline as with Parker's improvement, and Duncan's decline means the team is doomed to being second-round playoff fodder at best.
So they are what they are.
Yuixafun
03-30-2009, 12:15 PM
Sounds like the Spurs need a Witch Doctor or Shaman.
Bigzax
03-30-2009, 01:42 PM
it's a spurs rope-a-dope. relax and wait til it counts...i want them to finish 4th and play LA in the 2nd round...:flag:
longtimelurker
03-30-2009, 04:28 PM
not to be a hollinger, but what do you think percentage-wise the spurs have to shoot as a team to win if we limit the other team to 90-95 pts?
Spurminator
03-30-2009, 04:36 PM
In the past we could get away with a bad night from behind the arc because of our defense and because Duncan and Manu could get to the line a lot more easily. Because we're not getting to the line anymore, it's essential that we hit our 3's, and even the best shooting team in the NBA is going to have one or two games out of seven where they shoot poorly from outside. Unless the other team is also cold, that's bad news.
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