Initial Reaction: Spurs @ Hornets - Mar. 29

[timvp]

http://spurstalk.com/box1mar29.jpg
http://spurstalk.com/box2mar29.jpg

I classified the win over the Warriors recently as a bad win. Although this 90-86 loss against the Hornets isn't quite a good loss, it's definitely an understandable loss. With the Big Three healthy and playing close to normal minutes in a playoff atmosphere for the first time in six weeks, it'd be a bit shortsighted to expect the Spurs to instantly return to their customary form. I saw enough good out of Sunday night's game to feel positive about the team going forward.

The Hornets also deserve a lot of credit. Chris Paul illustrated again why he's one of the top five basketball players on the planet, while David West continues to be a difficult matchup for the Spurs. Despite being without a number of key players, New Orleans stepped up, played hard and beat San Antonio. You can't take anything away from their effort.

As for the Spurs, the most important thing is that Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili appear to be getting healthier. It's going to take a couple games before they get back into the groove, especially considering that Pop's rotation once again was completely overhauled. If the Spurs still look out of sorts a week from now, perhaps then would be the time to worry.

-In the second quarter, Tim Duncan was Tim Duncan. He scored 12 points and was carrying the Spurs on both ends of the quarter. The rest of the game, particularly down the stretch, Duncan didn't play too well. The issue in the fourth quarter appeared to be fatigue as he didn't have anywhere near the crispness he had in the second stanza. I liked that he rebounded well but when he's getting outplayed in a stretch by Sean Marks, that's when you realize Duncan still has a ways to go before returning to health and game shape.

-Manu Ginobili played his normal amount of minutes for the first time since the All-Star break. Like Duncan, Ginobili looked like he was totally out of gas late in the contest. Throughout the game, the Hornets decided to defend him like they did last year in the playoffs by giving him the outside shot. Ginobili responded by being the only three-point shooter on the team who hit a respectable percentage of his bombs from deep. His defense wasn't very good and his playmaking was lacking but Ginobili has to be considered ahead of schedule in his return from his stress reaction.

-Some aspects of Tony Parker's game I thought were very good, namely his defense. He guarded Paul about as well as Paul is going to be guarded. The Hornets superstar still got his but Parker made him work for everything. Offensively, Parker was thinking a bit too much. The Spurs have been thriving with him in constant attack mode and he had his foot off the pedal for too long tonight. Though considering that the Spurs outscored the Hornets 80-74 in the 39 minutes he played and were outscored by the Hornets 16-6 in the nine minutes he was on the bench, it's difficult to put too much blame on Parker.

-Michael Finley, like the rest of the role playing shooters on the team, got a number of wide open looks against New Orleans. The problem was converting the open looks into made baskets. Finley had a three-pointer late that gave the Spurs a chance to steal the game but missed a number of open shots throughout. Other than his shooting, I thought Finley played well.

-Roger Mason, Jr. was held scoreless in his 23 minutes of playing time. Running the point, Mason once again struggled. That struggle was even more prominent when he didn't have Ginobili at his side. It was a bit odd that Mason didn't get more minutes considering that the Hornets were leaving shooters open but it appeared as if Pop wasn't thrilled with what Mason was doing on the defensive end.

-Like the last time the Spurs visited New Orleans, Matt Bonner made Byron Scott look brilliant by instructing his bigs to let Bonner roam free on the perimeter. Bonner didn't knock down his open perimeter looks, except for one he hit late to cut a six-point lead in half. Though Bonner put up good rebounding numbers, he didn't corral a couple boards late that came back to bite the Spurs. Despite his uneven play, this wasn't anywhere near the disaster that the other game in New Orleans was for Bonner.

-Ime Udoka seems to have successfully carved out a role in Pop's rotation. In minutes that have traditionally gone to Bruce Bowen, Udoka is now seeing action. (In fact, Bowen registered his first DNP-CD in his Spurs career and it was the first game he missed outside of last year's suspension since 2002.) In his new role, Udoka didn't exactly earn an invite to the Hall of Fame. He missed a handful of wide, wide open looks from beyond the arc. His redeeming quality was his rebounding and he also made a few good passes within the offense.

-Drew Gooden hasn't quite integrated himself into the team concept yet. It's still very obvious that he's the round peg trying to fit into the square offensive and defensive sets. However, at least he isn't bashful and he is trying to help out. Gooden connected on four of his five shot attempts. His defense was decent at times against West but his help defense and rebounding were non-existent.

-I've been typing Kurt Thomas' praises for most of the last few months but he was horrible tonight. Since his slow start to the campaign, this was undoubtedly his worst game. He was loose with the ball offensively, out of position defensively, fouled needlessly and was just a very bad player overall. Hopefully this was a hiccup and Thomas can return to his stellar play ASAP.

-George Hill got a few minutes of action and didn't hurt the team. He gave good effort defensively and crashed the boards. On offense, he pushed the break when he got the ball. If the Spurs were to face the Hornets in the playoffs, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Pop figured out how to have Hill guard Paul for stretches of the series.

-I've been hoping for Pop to set a rotation and it appeared he did. Now the second guessing can commence. Removing Bowen from the equation is a move I don't agree with, especially when Udoka is the recipient. Udoka has had his moments but I still think it's clear that Bowen is a better player than Udoka. In what was nothing of a surprise, Pop leaned on Finley. It's inevitable that Finley will be in the rotation but I hope Pop isn't planning on bumping Mason's minutes to make room for Finley to play extended minutes each night.

Against the Hornets, I was a bit puzzled why Pop didn't go with the same strategy he used last time against New Orleans. In that victory, the Spurs went under the screen on Paul and forced him to score. Pop also started Thomas that game to not allow West to get off to a good start. In this game, Pop had the Spurs go over the screen against Paul and started Bonner on West. My guess would be that Pop didn't want the Hornets to get a free look at the defense the Spurs would play in the postseason ... but it was definitely an odd coaching maneuver.

All in all, I can live with this loss. The Spurs don't have much breathing room in the Western Conference but considering the circumstances, the positives outweighed the negatives tonight.

[Ghazi]

Spurs just missed their shots.

[crc21209]

Shit happens, and this game happened ALOT. The Spurs shot 29 freakin' 3 pointers and only made 7! They kept giving up Offensive boards, and we all know that BS call at the end of the game to hand the game over to the Hornets.

[024]

kurt thomas is a bad matchup against the hornets. he can't really step out into the perimeter to defend david west. spurs always expect more from duncan, especially in the fourth quarter. ginobili is getting back into shape so only parker was present in the fourth quarter. udoka getting minutes over bowen is a bad sign indeed. at least bowen can hit open threes under pressure.

[duncan228]

I saw enough good out of Sunday night's game to feel positive about the team going forward.


All in all, I can live with this loss. The Spurs don't have much breathing room in the Western Conference but considering the circumstances, the positives outweighed the negatives tonight.

Agreed. And refreshing amidst the meltdown. Thanks for the time.


In the second quarter, Tim Duncan was Tim Duncan. He scored 12 points and was carrying the Spurs on both ends of the quarter.

I think he had 14 in the quarter, but I haven't re-watched it.

[exstatic]

Shit happens, and this game happened ALOT. The Spurs shot 29 freakin' 3 pointers and only made 7! They kept giving up Offensive boards, and we all know that BS call at the end of the game to hand the game over to the Hornets.

Uh, the Spurs are lucky the RIGHT call wasn't made. That would have been two for Paul and the ball to NO for Parker grabbing his jersey before the ball was inbounded.

[ElNono]

:tu
I think once the smoke clears we'll see that this wasn't such a terrible loss.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

LOL timvp you blatantly try to be optimistic sometimes and it just makes it so hard to take the rest of your post seriously.

Positives outweigh the negatives. crawful.

[crc21209]

People need to stop freaking out so much when this is barely Manu's third game back and this team together has to get used to playing with all of each other again. They will be fine, and we most likely grab the 2 seed going into the playoffs...

[timvp]

LOL timvp you blatantly try to be optimistic sometimes and it just makes it so hard to take the rest of your post seriously.

Positives outweigh the negatives. crawful.Meltdown because the Spurs lost their first real game in six weeks? :jack

[dogzofwar]

A lot of yall really do amaze me....There are 13 other teams in this conference that would trade places with the Spurs in a heartbeat. Instead of giving props to a team that has it's franchise player hobbled with an injury and your most dynamic offensive spark plug gimped up for a chunk of the season....yall piss and moan and break down the team. While in the mean time, they are holding down the #2 spot! Wow...just wow. I, for one, am very proud of this team....the good, the bad, and the ugly.

[itzsoweezee]

the spurs are so good when tony tries to dominate the other team. he just has to be more selfish. i would have liked to see tony, manu, and tim not playing together all at the same time. all three of those guys need the ball in their hands to be effective.

[crc21209]

Meltdown because the Spurs lost their first real game in six weeks? :jack

Too many people around here jump off the ledge way too damn fast, and as soon as the Spurs win a big game...will jump right back on saying they never doubted them. If you're a real true Spurs fan fucking step up now...otherwise...get out. :flag:

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Meltdown because the Spurs lost their first real game in six weeks? :jack

You are blatantly trying to be over optimistic man. First real game? Wow. Alright, brah go back to trying to rally spurstalk into being optimistic about a team with an obviously ailing Duncan that can't outhustle a nearly decimated Hornets team.

[crc21209]

A lot of yall really do amaze me....There are 13 other teams in this conference that would trade places with the Spurs in a heartbeat. Instead of giving props to a team that has it's franchise player hobbled with an injury and your most dynamic offensive spark plug gimped up for a chunk of the season....yall piss and moan and break down the team. While in the mean time, they are holding down the #2 spot! Wow...just wow. I, for one, am very proud of this team....the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Exactly. Who in the hell here would have thought the Spurs would be holding the #2 spot with Manu missing 30 or so games this Season and Tim being a little banged up as well. The Spurs coaching staff and organization have done a hell of a job this year...yet..most people here continue to bash them like crazy when we should be giving them credit for the most part.

[TDMVPDPOY]

pop puts fukn HILL on bigger players armstrong, butler, wright...when he should be on fkn CP3

would like to see pop put ghill on cp3 full court press...lock this flopper down like no tommarow.

[DPG21920]

It is hard to consider it a real game when they are missing Chandler, Posey and Peja. I know the other guys are capable, but really? This is a game that everyone expects the Spurs to win at this point in the season.

[timvp]

You are blatantly trying to be over optimistic man. First real game? Wow. Alright, brah go back to trying to rally spurstalk into being optimistic about a team with an obviously ailing Duncan that can't outhustle a nearly decimated Hornets team.How is this blatantly over optimistic? Where you watching the same game I was where Duncan and Manu were gasping for air in the fourth quarter? And yeah, first real game with the Big Three all together since the first week of February.

I'm concerned about the health of Duncan and Ginobili. I apologize for not cutting myself because the Spurs lost at a place where they got routinely blown out last year while having the Big Three whole for the first time since the All-Star break. And that's not even accounting for Pop playing presumably his "real" rotation for the first time all season.

[SenorSpur]

So let me get this straight. This was the first real game in a while. So that means the Rockets and Celtics games were merely inconsequential? :rolleyes

[crc21209]

It is hard to consider it a real game when they are missing Chandler, Posey and Peja. I know the other guys are capable, but really? This is a game that everyone expects the Spurs to win at this point in the season.

Manu's 3rd game back and the addition of Gooden Pop is still just feeling things out and seeing what combo's do and do not work out there, thus the weird line-ups at times. The Spurs in money Playoff time, should be fine. Always believe in TP, TD, and Manu damn it. :flag:

[jag]

You are blatantly trying to be over optimistic man. First real game? Wow. Alright, brah go back to trying to rally spurstalk into being optimistic about a team with an obviously ailing Duncan that can't outhustle a nearly decimated Hornets team.

If the spurs shoot 35% as opposed to 24% from 3 and win this game...then all the sudden things are ok? Duncan didn't look ailing in the 2nd quarter. I'm not saying hes 100%...but there's no reason to think his bad knees are the reason the Spurs shot so poorly from downtown.

[crc21209]

So let me get this straight. This was the first real game in a while. So that means the Rockets and Celtics games were merely inconsequential? :rolleyes

Manu didnt play in those games. Manu is a BIG piece to our puzzle and we all know it.

[timvp]

So let me get this straight. This was the first real game in a while. So that means the Rockets and Celtics games were merely inconsequential? :rolleyesReal as in having the Big Three together playing normal minutes. Substitute the word "whole" or whatever else to get the message across.

[crc21209]

If the spurs shoot 35% as opposed to 24% from 3 and win this game...then all the sudden things are ok? Duncan didn't look ailing in the 2nd quarter. I'm not saying hes 100%...but there's no reason to think his bad knees are the reason the Spurs shot so poorly from downtown.

It was one of those nights where NOTHING goes your way. We shot like shit from 3, we couldnt keep New Orleans from getting offensive boards, and finally...the shitty call at the end giving 3 ft's to Paul and the game to the Hornets. NOTHING went our way at all.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The most maddening thing about all this continues to be the Mason-as-backup-PG experiment.

It is going to doom this team in the post-season. Give Hill the run and let him get experience, and let Mason go back to being an eagle eye shooting guard.

He hasn't looked the same since this backup PG experiment began.

But we're just getting a different look at Pop's inherent distrust for rookies in a different light. He won't give Hill the run, knows Vaughn won't cut it, so we're stuck with Mason at 'point'.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

How is this blatantly over optimistic? Where you watching the same game I was where Duncan and Manu were gasping for air in the fourth quarter? And yeah, first real game with the Big Three all together since the first week of February.

I'm concerned about the health of Duncan and Ginobili. I apologize for not cutting myself because the Spurs lost at a place where they got routinely blown out last year while having the Big Three whole for the first time since the All-Star break. And that's not even accounting for Pop playing presumably his "real" rotation for the first time all season.

Reading your original post alone as is, does not even provide convincing evidence that there is more good than bad out of this loss.

Watching the game, Duncan was being outhustled and was much slower than normal way before he got gassed. So he got tired. Hey, guys, Duncan got tired in the fourth, when he's been relatively rested the past week. Alot of good in that, right?

And it is ridiculous for you to try to convince people on this forum that Pop's strategies the past few weeks, leading into and including this game, shows more promise than disappointment.

It does not matter if we got blown out at NO last year, or every year for the last decade. We were outhustled by an undermanned team, and our anchor is nowhere near 100%. Just those facts already outweigh any positive you saw tonight, and any silver lining you grasp at about it being the first time the big three were together, us supposed to lose this game based on last year, and duncan and ginobili being tired.

And then we have RMJ scoring zero points, being completely shut out, and not having a groove, at all, against a possible first round playoff opponent.

Udoka getting mad minutes, and scoring less points than Bowen.

Lots of positives :tu

[DPG21920]

Look, we all know the drill. The Spurs are not supposed to be fully clicking all things considered. When you look at it from that point of view, then the Spurs played well considering all of those variables.

What most of us are saying is that even knowing this going into the game, the Spurs were still favorites to win against this injured Hornets team. They still should have won.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If the spurs shoot 35% as opposed to 24% from 3 and win this game...then all the sudden things are ok? Duncan didn't look ailing in the 2nd quarter. I'm not saying hes 100%...but there's no reason to think his bad knees are the reason the Spurs shot so poorly from downtown.

Duncans knees yes, the three point shooting yes. The sagging defense with wide open missed threes yes. So, yeah, I agree with you.

[ElNono]

If the spurs shoot 35% as opposed to 24% from 3 and win this game...then all the sudden things are ok? Duncan didn't look ailing in the 2nd quarter. I'm not saying hes 100%...but there's no reason to think his bad knees are the reason the Spurs shot so poorly from downtown.

Woha, hold on a second there. Who allowed you to come up with a reasonable take? You're supposed to be melting down and cutting your wrists right now. Please knock it off.

[Nathan Explosion]

Bonner should not be seeing significant court time against the Hornets. David West just abused him down low. Gooden is a better matchup because of his ability to play physical on the block against West.

West is a bit of a smaller guy, so the Spurs could probably get away with playing Ime on him, if only Ime could hit an open shot tonight.

The last foul was not the reason the Spurs lost. However, like the Fisher no call the blatantly terrible officiating ruined a potentially good ending. Rewarding a guy for trying to jack up a half court shot is ridiculous. Lebron tried that once jacking up a three when the other team was in obvious foul mode and tried to foul off the ball.

He didn't get the call, but after tonight's precendence he might be able to get it next time. Or maybe that officating crew realized something that tonight's crew didn't, that you can't reward a guy for jacking up a ridiculous shot because he knows a foul is coming.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i thought acquiring gooden was meant to solve the reb problems, gino back was meant to solve the bench scoring....unfortunately fail...

[EricB]

I think once Duncan starts playing more minutes you won't see him run out of gas so quickly. Ginobili as well.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

All things considered, Ginobili's play is the one real positive we can get from tonight's loss.

And i hate on Ginobili with the best of them.

[DPG21920]

i thought acquiring gooden was meant to solve the reb problems, gino back was meant to solve the bench scoring....unfortunately fail...

See this is what Timvp is talking about. It is to early to grade this. It is not fair. And considering the circumstances they did well. Gooden is still learning the system and his role. He has to get used to a set rotation.

Gino just returned from injury, has to get in rhythm and in shape. I agree with how it is tough and there were some positives when you look at it from Timvp's perspective.

Spurs still should of had enough to win despite the bench and the rust and the rotation.

[ElNono]

i thought acquiring gooden was meant to solve the reb problems, gino back was meant to solve the bench scoring....unfortunately fail...

You still have time to jump to the Lakers bandwagon if you're so disgusted with this team. I think Manu will come around and have less faith in Gooden coming fully around, but he'll be helpful in some situations.

[Nathan Explosion]

Gooden can't help the team if he's not playing. Playing Bonner over Gooden was ridiculous. Bonner couldn't box out to save his life and West abused him. Gooden has the muscle to clean that up.

[DPG21920]

Gooden can't help the team if he's not playing. Playing Bonner over Gooden was ridiculous. Bonner couldn't box out to save his life and West abused him. Gooden has the muscle to clean that up.

Did you watch the game? West absolutely abused Gooden.

[timvp]

Reading your original post alone as is, does not even provide convincing evidence that there is more good than bad out of this loss.So Duncan and Ginobili looking to be on the road to recovery isn't evidence of good outweighing bad? Would you rather Duncan and Ginobili look worse and the Spurs get one last steal at the end to win the game?


Watching the game, Duncan was being outhustledDon't really agree with outhustled. I'd agree with either hurt or tired before outhustled.


And it is ridiculous for you to try to convince people on this forum that Pop's strategies the past few weeks, leading into and including this game, shows more promise than disappointment.Link to anywhere I said anything about Pop's strategies the last few weeks showing more promise than disappointment? I've been riding Pop's azz for the last month.


our anchor is nowhere near 100%. Did you watch Duncan when he first came back? He was getting pushed around by everyone, couldn't hold his position, couldn't score in isolation situations and wasn't playing defense. He sucked. Comparatively speaking, he looked better tonight. Still a long way to go before he's anywhere good enough to lead the Spurs to a championship but just a week ago it looked like Duncan's chances of being effective in the playoffs were dwindling. Those chances may still be not very good but Duncan certainly is progressing ... which in itself gives me hope.

Is he going to be good enough by the playoffs? I'd say it's about 50/50 right now. Ask me that last week and I would have said it's 75/25 that he wasn't going to be ready. So yeah, that positive in itself (and that's not even counting the return of Manu within the last week) outshines a loss at New Orleans.

[ElNono]

Did you watch the game? West absolutely abused Gooden.

Not as much as he abused Bonner. Not only was he scoring on Matt at will, he actually got him twice in foul trouble. Now, I agree that Gooden is not ready to handle more minutes defensively late in the game, so I'm not really upset he didn't see more floor time tonight. But I think Drew and Kurt (even though the latter had an awful game) are the best we have to matchup with him.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So Duncan and Ginobili looking to be on the road to recovery isn't evidence of good outweighing bad? Would you rather Duncan and Ginobili look worse and the Spurs get one last steal at the end to win the game?

Don't really agree with outhustled. I'd agree with either hurt or tired before outhustled.

Link to anywhere I said anything about Pop's strategies the last few weeks showing more promise than disappointment? I've been riding Pop's azz for the last month.

Did you watch Duncan when he first came back? He was getting pushed around by everyone, couldn't hold his position, couldn't score in isolation situations and wasn't playing defense. He sucked. Comparatively speaking, he looked better tonight. Still a long way to go before he's anywhere good enough to lead the Spurs to a championship but just a week ago it looked like Duncan's chances of being effective in the playoffs were dwindling. Those chances may still be not very good but Duncan certainly is progressing ... which in itself gives me hope.

Is he going to be good enough by the playoffs? I'd say it's about 50/50 right now. Ask me that last week and I would have said it's 75/25 that he wasn't going to be ready. So yeah, that positive in itself (and that's not even counting the return of Manu within the last week) outshines a loss at New Orleans.

Look, I agree with what you just said and implied in this post, pretty much to a T. Except for one thing. Duncan isn't playing bad worse, worst, then okay, better, best, since his diagnosis of this disease. IMO, it's been pretty random, and overall, he has been sub-par. It's not a tweaked ligament where it slowly heals and he's going to get better, and I can see this. He did play like shit when he came back first game, but he did play better here and there before this game. Especially right out the gates. He was not moving his normal self at all when this game started, and even when he was scoring, was still getting burnt on the D end.
That is what I mean when I say it makes no sense to rest Duncan just for the sake of resting Duncan. It seems to me like he could have had a chance to play quite well in the game he sat out. It's possible he could have been fine. But in a game when he's blatantly hurting, which IMO was tonight, rest his ass. Save him.

[DPG21920]

I agree the Spurs did not play with enough energy or hustle. The Hornets out worked the Spurs and you can attribute that to whatever you want. But even Pop said it during his timeout.

That is why I am bothered. That is why I feel the Spurs should have won.

[Don Quixote]

Yes, I'm aware that we're losing these games by only a couple of points. And that our guys are not totally healthy. And that the refs have been questionable, and Pop's still working out a rotation, and the League wants the Finals to be LeBron v. Kobe, and Bowen's been glued to the bench, and ... any more excuses? I'm sure I missed a few.

Bottom line is, the Spurs, if they were truly championship contenders, would be adapting and overcoming. And beating the good teams and pounding the crappy ones. But they're not. At some point, the answer can only be, they're not that good this year.

[Nathan Explosion]

Not as much as he abused Bonner. Not only was he scoring on Matt at will, he actually got him twice in foul trouble. Now, I agree that Gooden is not ready to handle more minutes defensively late in the game, so I'm not really upset he didn't see more floor time tonight. But I think Drew and Kurt (even though the latter had an awful game) are the best we have to matchup with him.

I saw West hitting shots that were either fadeaways (you know the ones where he kicks out his leg Reggie Miller style) or hitting contested shots.

I saw West absolutely torching Bonner on offense and on the boards. Bonner couldn't do a thing about it whereas Gooden has the muscle to push West off the block.

Plus, West is a hot head and playing him physical gets him off his game and into foul trouble.

[ElNono]

I saw West hitting shots that were either fadeaways (you know the ones where he kicks out his leg Reggie Miller style) or hitting contested shots.

I saw West absolutely torching Bonner on offense and on the boards. Bonner couldn't do a thing about it whereas Gooden has the muscle to push West off the block.

Plus, West is a hot head and playing him physical gets him off his game and into foul trouble.

I agree, BUT right now if the offense goes somewhere else while Drew is on the floor, we basically have no help defense or rotation under the basket. And you can't give up easy points late in games. That said, if the Hornets keep going to West because Bonner is on him, then you can play Drew a couple posessions to cool down West a bit.
Gooden is also more athletic, and I think he would be a decent matchup for stretches against guys like Dirk/West.

[polandprzem]

Thank you timvp for a recap

[Nathan Explosion]

I agree, BUT right now if the offense goes somewhere else while Drew is on the floor, we basically have no help defense or rotation under the basket. And you can't give up easy points late in games. That said, if the Hornets keep going to West because Bonner is on him, then you can play Drew a couple posessions to cool down West a bit.
Gooden is also more athletic, and I think he would be a decent matchup for stretches against guys like Dirk/West.

Thomas is too slow to be following athletic bigs. He's a banger. Bonner is too weak to guard anyone in the block. He can chase perimeter guys on the floor (in theory). Gooden can guard those tweeners like Dirk and West. Guys who will use their speed on Thomas and muscle on Bonner.

The only way Gooden will get the offense and defensive assignments down in a hurry is to put him in the fire and let him learn alongside Duncan. Put Bowen in as well, and you have two of the best defenders in the league to learn on the fly from.

I'm not saying start Gooden full time (if at all). But in a game like this, he needs to be on the floor more than Bonner. The upside with Gooden is much higher than with Bonner, especially considering the physical nature of the playoffs.

Not to mention we don't know how Bonner will react in the postseason seeing as how this will be his first real playoff experience. Gooden on the other hand has been to the Finals. Having his and Thomas' experience backing up Tim can be an asset.

[erikuff]

Mason and Udoka sucked huge amounts of cock.
Even with the horrible 2nd half, if 2 more of those open 3's were hit, we woulda came out with a W.

[ElNono]

Thomas is too slow to be following athletic bigs. He's a banger. Bonner is too weak to guard anyone in the block. He can chase perimeter guys on the floor (in theory). Gooden can guard those tweeners like Dirk and West. Guys who will use their speed on Thomas and muscle on Bonner.

The only way Gooden will get the offense and defensive assignments down in a hurry is to put him in the fire and let him learn alongside Duncan. Put Bowen in as well, and you have two of the best defenders in the league to learn on the fly from.

I'm not saying start Gooden full time (if at all). But in a game like this, he needs to be on the floor more than Bonner. The upside with Gooden is much higher than with Bonner, especially considering the physical nature of the playoffs.

Not to mention we don't know how Bonner will react in the postseason seeing as how this will be his first real playoff experience. Gooden on the other hand has been to the Finals. Having his and Thomas' experience backing up Tim can be an asset.

Thomas will be fine in the playoffs because the tempo slows down a lot, and the game gets more physical. And now, we can't throw Drew into the fire. It takes time and practice to get everybody on the same tune defensively, and once you put a guy that's out of sync it gets too easy to break it down. Drew is going to need at least one full training camp to really understand what we're doing defensively. That's why I said I thought he won't fully come around this season. He will help us in spot moments and against specific matchups and situations, but I doubt we'll get much more than that off of him.

[Nathan Explosion]

I don't expect Gooden to be nearly as good as he can be this season. However, at the moment he's a better asset than Bonner. Bonner has been hitting his threes all season, but when the shot isn't falling he's useless.

Gooden can score in the block, hit the little mid range jumper and grab some rebounds. The Spurs have been able to cover defensive for liabilities. Granted that covering for a big is different than covering for a wing player, but I think Pop can adjust.

My comments on Bonner aren't becaue of one game, but rather, were reinforced by this game. Hell, if the Spurs want to create a mismatch, they should have tried Bonner at the 3 for stretches at a time earlier in the season.

It may or may have not worked, but it would have been worth a look. It's too late to do it now.

[Nathan Explosion]

Just to be clear, I'm not down on Bonner totally. But Bonner isn't quite as effective in a slow down slugfest.

[crc21209]

This from ESPN.com's recap of the game:

"He told the ref before, like, 'Look man, I'm going to shoot the ball if they come in and foul me,'" Hornets forward David West said. "It's a tricky play to make, but he knows how to be in the act of shooting when those guys are coming to make sure he gets those extra free throws."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290329003

It's official everyone! Paul and the ref had planned this shit before the play! Bitches! :lol

[td4mvp21]

If Udoka gets Bowens minutes in the playoffs....

[Brutalis]

I come here tonight and see a lot of people with a lot of emotion on this loss.

Regardless, I think it's pretty good right now after our own injuries. It's honestly changed, the power is in the East so they say, and the Lakers/Spurs are marked for a repeat WCFs. Question is will we have our boys healthy? Will Gooden be an impact and can we get Mason and guys to step up? I'm coasting right now for the playoffs. I would love a 2 seed but we need to just get in and be healthy when it arrives.

[Oh, Gee!!]

After this game, I think the season will be a success if we can face L.A. in the WCF's and hold them to 6 games.

[bigfan]

Hey its a punch in the gut but we can do better. We'll be ok in the playoffs.

[Oh, Gee!!]

We'll be ok in the playoffs.

do you truly believe that if we face L.A.?

[crc21209]

Udoka out there was absolutely HORRIBLE. He did pretty much NOTHING right. He had about 3 or 4 wide open 3 ptrs and bricked the hell out of them. One or two of them couldve upped our lead to 10 or 11, but he missed em. I want more Gooden/Thomas, less Bonner. I want Hill at backup point, and Mase clearly as a 2-guard gunner. I want less Udoka, and more Bowen. All these things and this team will be just fine! Do it Pop!

[MannyIsGod]

I think the bottom line is that most of us here with a realistic understanding of the Spurs know that they CAN be a force when all big 3 are healthy. The thing is, in the past 2 years that situation just hasn't happened very often.

There's a reason I pushed for the Vince Carter trade and it has to do with this team's chances as they stand and their margin for error if they want to make any noise in the post season. Right now that margin of error is razor thin and the Spurs are no where near the level of perfection that is going to be required for them to succeed. There are too many things going against them and they're simply not good enough to overcome much of that as it stands. If they had been willing to part with RMJ it likely gives them a much larger margin of error heading into the playoffs. They can afford to have Manu at less than 100 percent and maybe they can even have Tim playing a bit weaker because others can step up and pick up the load. I will be pleasantly surprised if the Spurs are the team to come out of the West this year because they're simply not good enough to overcome Duncan and Manu's health situation combined with the inconsistent play of Bonner, RMJ, and Hill.

And that's the crux of everything here. While the Spurs have the potential to beat the Lakers in a seven game series it requires the perfect set of circumstances which become less likely by the day. As it stands, the Spurs need to show marked improvement over the last several weeks of the season if they expect to make it out of the first round.

[wildbill2u]

When your superstar gets outplayed by Sean Marks you're in trouble.

Actually, I've seen a couple of NO games and Marks is playing good minutes for them, not like when he was furniture in his stint at SA. He blocked three shots, twice on Tim in the same series. He's very mobile for a 7 footer and runs the court well.

Never thought I'd see the day when I wished he was a backup center here.

[Obstructed_View]

The most maddening thing about all this continues to be the Mason-as-backup-PG experiment.

It is going to doom this team in the post-season. Give Hill the run and let him get experience, and let Mason go back to being an eagle eye shooting guard.

He hasn't looked the same since this backup PG experiment began.

But we're just getting a different look at Pop's inherent distrust for rookies in a different light. He won't give Hill the run, knows Vaughn won't cut it, so we're stuck with Mason at 'point'.

I agree. Having Mason in this role is ruining him, and costs the Spurs two players every time he runs the point. There's just not any way Hill could be worse in this role.

The Spurs turned into a jump shooting team in the second half, and they got beat for it. Couple that with their sudden inability to secure a rebound or take care of the ball and you get a game they very much deserved to lose.

I reiterate my previous call to have Udoka run the point. He is a GREAT passer, and has very good court vision. Since he doesn't really do anything else well, and he's already on the floor taking minutes from Bowen...

Not having Bowen in the game at all makes no sense to me whatsoever. If Pop doesn't trust his rookies, then why was Hill on the floor at the end to play defense instead of Bowen?

[1Parker1]

Meltdown because the Spurs lost their first real game in six weeks? :jack

Lost their first real game in 6 weeks? Didn't they just lose an important game against Houston like 2 weeks ago?

[Yuixafun]

The most maddening thing about all this continues to be the Mason-as-backup-PG experiment.

It is going to doom this team in the post-season. Give Hill the run and let him get experience, and let Mason go back to being an eagle eye shooting guard.

He hasn't looked the same since this backup PG experiment began.

But we're just getting a different look at Pop's inherent distrust for rookies in a different light. He won't give Hill the run, knows Vaughn won't cut it, so we're stuck with Mason at 'point'.

Hopefully this debacle ends when Manu is deemed up to speed.

[JudynTX]

I can't stand Chris Paul. :flipoff

[urunobili]

I hope we don't choke like this in the playoffs... the losses to the Rockets, Celtics, OKC and this one were simply pathetic...

[ceperez]

Spurs have to figure out how to make Gooden more effective in offensive. He did well this game, but had to create his own offense.

Gooden needs to know how to play Spurs defense. To many silly reach in fouls. Though, I thought it guarded West well enough. You can see than when Gooden is one-on-one guarding West, West isn't as aggressive.

Interesting that when Hill was on CP3, CP3 was passive offensively. I honestly believe that playoff time, Hill is going to give Paul a lot of problems. Too bad we didn't see that Hill play in the 2nd half.

Mason seems to lose confidence when playing against teams with tight defense. He had very few open looks, and wasn't aggressively looking for his shot.

Manu and Tim simply didn't show up in the final period.

Bonner for some reason seems to miss shots in the critical games.

Udoka, he's inconsistent, at times he's gutsy but because of his lack of athleticism, can't seem to create good shots for himself.

Again.... the Spurs biggest weakness are against athletic guys like Wright and Areza (Lakers).

Ain't it sad that the Hornets and the Rockets are using our former players against us!

[WalterBenitez]

:bang That final f...g foul, the only thing I can think

[polandprzem]

You know what?

I kinda used to loses ...


Don't know if it's good thing though

[Don Quixote]

After this game, I think the season will be a success if we can face L.A. in the WCF's and hold them to 6 games.

Mostly agree. I think somehow nabbing the 2 seed, limping into a WCF showdown with the Lakers, and getting swept or faceplanted 4-1 by them is the best case scenario with this crew. I don't know if I'd call that a success -- the Black & Silver has won titles, remember?

If we were the Mavs or Suns, then our threshold for success would be much lower, and I suppose they could call that a success. But that wouldn't be success for us.

So that's our best-case scenario, a WCF bow-out. Worst case scenario: we limp along, catch the wrong team in the first round (e.g., Portland, Houston) and get knocked out right then.

[vander]

Manu can no longer get to the rim.

[urunobili]

Manu can no longer get to the rim.

TP chokes late in games when playing important ones against winning teams... you're shit is getting old... :nope

[SenorSpur]

The most maddening thing about all this continues to be the Mason-as-backup-PG experiment.

It is going to doom this team in the post-season. Give Hill the run and let him get experience, and let Mason go back to being an eagle eye shooting guard.

He hasn't looked the same since this backup PG experiment began.

But we're just getting a different look at Pop's inherent distrust for rookies in a different light. He won't give Hill the run, knows Vaughn won't cut it, so we're stuck with Mason at 'point'.

Sounds like a very simple solution, which is why Pop isn't going to do it.

Remember when Mason was having early success as a starter, then Pop inexplicably moved him to the bench and he struggled. Pop later decided to move him back into the starting lineup and he flourished again. I wish the same would happen here with George Hill.

I still can't believe this is the same coach that entrusted his team to a 19 year-old rookie, some years back. Of course, that trust didn't come over night or even within the first couple of seasons, as he flirted with the idea of replacing him with J-Kidd.

Therefore, I do agree that this probably has more to do with Pop's inherent mistrust of rookies - no matter how much he gushed over Hill at the beginning.

[Yuixafun]

Just gotta trust in the process.

Enjoy the moment instead of worrying about the future. (but do plan for it)

This line of thinking will save the lot of you from needless angst (and arguements, unless you enjoy that then by all means).

[ManuTastic]

Even with the horrible 2nd half, if 2 more of those open 3's were hit, we woulda came out with a W.

True dat X2. Look, this team lives and dies by the 3. Last night we hit 24% of 3s, and most of those misses were on wide open looks. If we had shot our season average on 3's (39%), we'd have won by 8 points. Or like he says above, if two more had gone in we win.

Bonner and Mason were 1-7 on 3s. That's game right there. I think Pop should shelve the Mason as backup PG idea and get Hill his reps there before the playoffs start. Mason is a gunner, pure and simple.

[Manu-of-steel]

Manu can no longer get to the rim.

I'VE waited for you to bash manu. here we go again. gtfo, hater.

[de Soto]

No a terrible loss? The Hornets were missing players. The Spurs sucked, especially Mason, Thomas, Bonner and Duncan in the 2nd half. They were fucking awful.

[xtremesteven33]

Its a regular season win. Not the playoffs.

These scrubs who played well for the Hornets wont step up in the playoffs. Especially on the road against the Spurs. Im not worried the least bit.

[de Soto]

Its a regular season win. Not the playoffs.

These scrubs who played well for the Hornets wont step up in the playoffs. Especially on the road against the Spurs. Im not worried the least bit.

So why attend the games then? I'll just wait for the playoffs when the Spurs will presumably feel like playind again. :rolleyes

[xtremesteven33]

So why attend the games then? I'll just wait for the playoffs when the Spurs will presumably feel like playind again. :rolleyes



That wasnt my point. My point is this Hornets win doesnt mean they can beat us in a 7 game series.

We will have HCA
We have a deeper bench
Plus we have shown we can beat them with a weaker team and without HCA.

[Dex]

Supporting your team isn't supposed to be about having the team that has the best chance to win the title. If you want that, hurry up and jump on the Lakers bandwagon this year, and get ready to don a new jersey next.

Those of you trying to quantify the Spurs chances at winning are just spinning your wheels. I'd prefer to just stand behind my team and root for them, no matter what their 'odds' are.

Some of you still seem to think this championship thing is supposed to be easy.

[EricB]

Lost their first real game in 6 weeks? Didn't they just lose an important game against Houston like 2 weeks ago?

Not having ginobili doesn't make it a real game.

[benefactor]

Not having ginobili doesn't make it a real game.
I am trying to understand the lack of understanding surrounding this....

[LionZion]

This wasn't a must win game for us. NOOCH played like it is for them. All credit to them for pulling out a win.
Pop isn't gonna show his cards in a regular season game. Without giving him too much credit, I'll bet Pop tried out a few of the schemes he wants to try over the two games we played against them with some left for the last game of the season.

No game is a must win for us from now on, unless Houston again comes within a game of us, then everything becomes must win until that gap is widened.

[vander]

TP chokes late in games when playing important ones against winning teams... you're shit is getting old... :nope

What does TP have to do with this? The sad fact is, Manu just doesn't have the athleticism or quicks to get to the hoop anymore, and even he knows it. Soon defenders will catch on, and guard him even closer on the perimeter, not giving him the open 3 anymore. then what will he do?

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL it was a loss, that's all there is to know..it was the EXACT same game as the 1st Hornets game..we had TONS of wide open shots that weren't going down..losing is inexcusable, but there's no need to meltdown..

it was a pathetic loss, I'm sure the players and Pop are mad at themselves..

this loss means nothing in the long run..regular season games are always meaningless for the long run..

[HarlemHeat37]

What does TP have to do with this? The sad fact is, Manu just doesn't have the athleticism or quicks to get to the hoop anymore, and even he knows it. Soon defenders will catch on, and guard him even closer on the permiter, not giving him the open 3 anymore. then what will he do?

Manu has gotten to the hoop multiple times since he's returned, and this is Manu without any kind of rhythm of chemistry with the team..

I wouldn't expect any different from you though, you're one of the worst posters here..

[vander]

Manu has gotten to the hoop multiple times since he's returned, and this is Manu without any kind of rhythm of chemistry with the team..

I wouldn't expect any different from you though, you're one of the worst posters here..

yes, but all of those times were against the Cippers, the Clippers don't play D

what does rhythm and chemistry have to do with being able to get to the rim, how is being in sync with TD supposed to give him that extra burst?

[Spurs Brazil]

The most maddening thing about all this continues to be the Mason-as-backup-PG experiment.

It is going to doom this team in the post-season. Give Hill the run and let him get experience, and let Mason go back to being an eagle eye shooting guard.

He hasn't looked the same since this backup PG experiment began.

But we're just getting a different look at Pop's inherent distrust for rookies in a different light. He won't give Hill the run, knows Vaughn won't cut it, so we're stuck with Mason at 'point'.

Agree.


Mason playing PG is killing his confidence. Now he's a terrible PG and a bad SG.

We had in Mason a great option to close games with the big 3 and Pop kills his confidence playing him at PG

[de Soto]

Supporting your team isn't supposed to be about having the team that has the best chance to win the title. If you want that, hurry up and jump on the Lakers bandwagon this year, and get ready to don a new jersey next.

Those of you trying to quantify the Spurs chances at winning are just spinning your wheels. I'd prefer to just stand behind my team and root for them, no matter what their 'odds' are.

Some of you still seem to think this championship thing is supposed to be easy.

I suppose you support the Spurs because you like their team colors? Moron. I support a team that gives its best every time and entertains the people who paid for their tickets. That is not the Spurs during the regular season.

Now fuck off! Moron.

[Dex]

I suppose you support the Spurs because you like their team colors? Moron. I support a team that gives its best every time and entertains the people who paid for their tickets. That is not the Spurs during the regular season.

Now fuck off! Moron.

I support the Spurs because I was born and raised in San Antonio and all I have ever known is Silver & Black.

I support the Spurs because my first stuffed animal was a Spurs Coyote, the first famous person I ever met was David Robinson, and the first championship parade I saw was in San Antonio. And the second. And third. And fourth.

And I supported the Spurs in a time when they couldn't even have fathomed such a thing.

You want a show? You want bang for your buck? Go watch a fucking movie. No one is making you buy Spurs tickets, and they don't owe you a thing.

You make it pretty easy to see why you got pinked.

[VI_Massive]

My initial and final reaction: Bonner sucks.

I actually have liked his defense down low lately. He blew some boards at the end, and he can get torched on the perimeter, but down low he has been pretty solid. Nothing spectacular, he's no shot blocker or anything, but he's making guys work and forcing them to take lower percentage shots.

Now if only some of those 3s would go down.......its not only bad for merely those shots, but as people have said here, if he isn't a threat to score, his man is going to stay in and clog the lane to hamper the Big 3.

[The Truth #6]

Re: Bonner, it's good to know how far he's progressed this year. He's by no means clutch, but nor is he a complete meltdown in big games either. His game is still progressing. He's getting used to being in crunch situations. Giving up on him in the same way Pop has given up on Hill as a PG would be the mistake.

[The Truth #6]

I agree. Having Mason in this role is ruining him, and costs the Spurs two players every time he runs the point. There's just not any way Hill could be worse in this role.

The Spurs turned into a jump shooting team in the second half, and they got beat for it. Couple that with their sudden inability to secure a rebound or take care of the ball and you get a game they very much deserved to lose.

I reiterate my previous call to have Udoka run the point. He is a GREAT passer, and has very good court vision. Since he doesn't really do anything else well, and he's already on the floor taking minutes from Bowen...

Not having Bowen in the game at all makes no sense to me whatsoever. If Pop doesn't trust his rookies, then why was Hill on the floor at the end to play defense instead of Bowen?

I agree with OV about Mason. We're losing two players at once here. It's extremely dispiriting. Playing Mason at the point, sadly, only exposes his major weaknesses - directing the offense and penetration. The guy is basically a one dimensional spot up shooter but he's excellent in that role. Totally cold-blooded. Pop's love for Mason possibly went too far and now Mason and Hill and the team are suffering for it.

The Udoka idea is unorthodox but in a way I think it's worth an experiment. I'd still have Hill try to be a PG instead of a 3, but if Hill is going to be the defensive specialist while he focuses on his offensive game, then yeah, play Udoka at the 1, why not. I've seen him move well without the ball, especially in a 2 man game with Oberto (perhaps because of the months they spent practicing together when they weren't playing) but I haven't noticed great passing from him yet, but perhaps I haven't been paying enough attention.

Playing him alongside Bowen might be too many offensive liabilities on the court at the same time. With so few games yet, it seems as if Pop has buried his head in the sand. With the whole regular season as a laboratory to test different looks and lineups, it's insane to think Mason as PG would be the one to stick to. Ughh.

[crc21209]

What does TP have to do with this? The sad fact is, Manu just doesn't have the athleticism or quicks to get to the hoop anymore, and even he knows it. Soon defenders will catch on, and guard him even closer on the perimeter, not giving him the open 3 anymore. then what will he do?

Did you not see the slam Manu put on Hilton Armstrong of the Hornets just a couple months ago?