GM vs AIG

[LnGrrrR]

While I think it is admirable that Obama requested better plans from GM to request money, why aren't banks held to that same standard? Realistically, I'm sure it's because the financial sector has America by the balls. But it would be nice of Obama to demand some sort of plan from these banks as well.

*Note: If I hear one Republican complain about the DOW dropping, when it is obviously due to the fact that the GM CEO was fired, because he could not come up with a plan sufficient enough to warrant receiving more money.... well, let's just say I'll be irate. The market dropped because Obama forced these companies to have a good plan in order to lend money to them. They should be happy about that, frankly. I am.*

[clambake]

if the banks don't open up on lending, he will.

[Thunder Dan]

Well the auto bailout was written correctly with stipulations and all of that, while the banking bailout had so many loopholes and we are seeing them exploited now. The problem is that the success of the auto industry depends alot as to how the banking industry is doing- so when banks are not lending, and are pocketing the loan, they are in turn hurting the auto industry. If the auto bailout was written in a way the banking one was written, and the banking was written the way the auto was (assuming one had to be messed up, which doesn't really need to be assumed) then things wouldn't be the way they are right now. It all comes back to what got us in this mess to begin with: Greedy Banks exploiting the public

[LockBeard]

while i think it is admirable that obama requested better plans from gm to request money, why aren't banks held to that same standard? Realistically, i'm sure it's because the financial sector has america by the balls. But it would be nice of obama to demand some sort of plan from these banks as well.

*note: If i hear one republican complain about the dow dropping, when it is obviously due to the fact that the gm ceo was fired, because he could not come up with a plan sufficient enough to warrant receiving more money.... Well, let's just say i'll be irate. The market dropped because obama forced these companies to have a good plan in order to lend money to them. They should be happy about that, frankly. I am.*

dude, why the hell isn't government held to the same standards as businesses?????

UAW, LOL. How many millions of people are going to get burned out of social security later down the road. At least GM let it's people have the option to get the heck out! Too bad GM can't just print more money.

If our government operated like an actual business with accountability it would be so sick (as in the good kind) how this country could become.

Not the crooked "too big to fail" guarantee'd Government bail out corps, but the actual small businesses who aren't kicking back benefits to government officials and have to constantly ensure they are playing by the books and striving for efficient effectiveness.

[clambake]

dude, why the hell isn't government held to the same standards as businesses?????


can you expand on that?

[angrydude]

I "love" how now the political debate in America has turned into what is the best way for the govt. to manage the companies it just bought.

[CosmicCowboy]

While I think it is admirable that Obama requested better plans from GM to request money, why aren't banks held to that same standard? Realistically, I'm sure it's because the financial sector has America by the balls. But it would be nice of Obama to demand some sort of plan from these banks as well.

*Note: If I hear one Republican complain about the DOW dropping, when it is obviously due to the fact that the GM CEO was fired, because he could not come up with a plan sufficient enough to warrant receiving more money.... well, let's just say I'll be irate. The market dropped because Obama forced these companies to have a good plan in order to lend money to them. They should be happy about that, frankly. I am.*

The arrogance of this administration is truly amazing. There is not a single former businessman in Obama's cabinet, yet a bunch of academics that probably can't even change a spark plug are gonna tell GM how to run a car company.

Again, the problem is not their ability to manufacture cars, or even what cars they are manufacturing, it's that a lot of people that want their cars can't get financed like they could in the past.

[LnGrrrR]

The arrogance of this administration is truly amazing. There is not a single former businessman in Obama's cabinet, yet a bunch of academics that probably can't even change a spark plug are gonna tell GM how to run a car company.

Again, the problem is not their ability to manufacture cars, or even what cars they are manufacturing, it's that a lot of people that want their cars can't get financed like they could in the past.

Agreed, which is why I doubt any plan, short of this, would've worked.

1) Fix the banking industry, aholes!!!!

2) People buy our cars again.

Now, let's see if they demand the same of AIG. Still, I'm glad they've made some slight progress towards accountability. I wonder if a third party will step up to ensure my warranty? Or am I boned? lol

[coyotes_geek]

While I think it is admirable that Obama requested better plans from GM to request money, why aren't banks held to that same standard? Realistically, I'm sure it's because the financial sector has America by the balls. But it would be nice of Obama to demand some sort of plan from these banks as well.

*Note: If I hear one Republican complain about the DOW dropping, when it is obviously due to the fact that the GM CEO was fired, because he could not come up with a plan sufficient enough to warrant receiving more money.... well, let's just say I'll be irate. The market dropped because Obama forced these companies to have a good plan in order to lend money to them. They should be happy about that, frankly. I am.*

What kind of plan do you want to see from the banks? Seems to me they already have a plan. After getting burned by making risky loans their plan is to not make any more risky loans.

[angrydude]

The banks not lending would be a good thing if the govt. hadn't done its stimulus thing. At least then when this was all over we'd be able to have some confidence in the system again. Now, we still have no credit, and who the hell knows what is going to happen next.

Funny how its easy to stop people from doing things, but it's hard to force them TO do things.

[clambake]

The banks not lending would be a good thing if the govt. hadn't done its stimulus thing.

yeah, massive layoffs would be a good thing.

[LnGrrrR]

What kind of plan do you want to see from the banks? Seems to me they already have a plan. After getting burned by making risky loans their plan is to not make any more risky loans.

Ha! If that's the case, then they don't really deserve any money, do they? The whole point of getting taxpayer money is to funnel that out to small businesses and whatnot.

There are NON risky loans out there for the taking; it's just easier for them to say, "No one is worth the risk!" and still try to keep money.

If they don't want to lend, fine. Just don't take our money.

[Crookshanks]

I can't understand why there isn't more outrage over the take-over of GM. When has a President EVER gone in and fired the CEO of a MAJOR Corporation? He didn't even ask Congress about it - he just flat out fired the guy! And now he says we shouldn't be worried... well I am very worried and not at all thrilled that my warranty is now backed up by the Obama administration! So does any and all warranty work now have to be approved by the government?

Since the government has now seized the power to void lawful contracts - are they now going to change the terms of my warranty?

Wagoner should have told Obama to piss off and refused to resign. GM is going to end up in bankruptcy anyway. And the arrogance of the Obama administration is astounding - there's not a single businessman among them - yet they think they know better how to run the auto industry. God - have I said lately how much I despise Obama and everything he stands for!!!!!!

[ChumpDumper]

I can't understand why there isn't more outrage over the take-over of GM. When has a President EVER gone in and fired the CEO of a MAJOR Corporation? He didn't even ask Congress about it - he just flat out fired the guy! And now he says we shouldn't be worried... well I am very worried and not at all thrilled that my warranty is now backed up by the Obama administration! So does any and all warranty work now have to be approved by the government?

Since the government has now seized the power to void lawful contracts - are they now going to change the terms of my warranty?

Wagoner should have told Obama to piss off and refused to resign. GM is going to end up in bankruptcy anyway. And the arrogance of the Obama administration is astounding - there's not a single businessman among them - yet they think they know better how to run the auto industry. God - have I said lately how much I despise Obama and everything he stands for!!!!!!Better yet, just let GM fail and fuck you and your warranty.

If you are truly for free markets, that's what you want.

[Crookshanks]

I'd rather they let GM reorganize thru bankruptcy than for the gov't to come in and take over. I was against the bailout from the very beginning. And this is coming from someone whose father worked for GM and is now pretty much dependent on that GM Pension.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd rather they let GM reorganize thru bankruptcy than for the gov't to come in and take over.GM would rather not.

[LnGrrrR]

I can't understand why there isn't more outrage over the take-over of GM. When has a President EVER gone in and fired the CEO of a MAJOR Corporation? He didn't even ask Congress about it - he just flat out fired the guy! And now he says we shouldn't be worried... well I am very worried and not at all thrilled that my warranty is now backed up by the Obama administration! So does any and all warranty work now have to be approved by the government?

Since the government has now seized the power to void lawful contracts - are they now going to change the terms of my warranty?

Wagoner should have told Obama to piss off and refused to resign. GM is going to end up in bankruptcy anyway. And the arrogance of the Obama administration is astounding - there's not a single businessman among them - yet they think they know better how to run the auto industry. God - have I said lately how much I despise Obama and everything he stands for!!!!!!

Obama didn't fire him. He asked that he resign and he did.

I'd rather have my warranty backed up by someone. If the government doesn't, it would be a third party that would offer to redeem them (fat chance) or no one (most likely).

And yes, you've said that many times.

[clambake]

so, you want to get rid of your fathers pension?

[Winehole23]

Since the government has now seized the power to void lawful contracts - are they now going to change the terms of my warranty? Just guessing here: perhaps GM and Chrysler limited themselves contractually when they accepted billions of dollars from the public purse a couple of months ago.

There was a stipulation, for example, that any future subsidy would be conditioned on having some kind of reasonable roadmap to a sound balance sheet.

I guess GM doesn't have one of those. As I understand it, Obama's bankruptcy threat was intended to motivate GM and its creditors to get real about the company's reorganization.

[Das Texan]

The arrogance of this administration is truly amazing. There is not a single former businessman in Obama's cabinet, yet a bunch of academics that probably can't even change a spark plug are gonna tell GM how to run a car company.

Again, the problem is not their ability to manufacture cars, or even what cars they are manufacturing, it's that a lot of people that want their cars can't get financed like they could in the past.



so why did GM lose money from 2004-2007? There werent major credit problems then.

[Clandestino]

The arrogance of this administration is truly amazing. There is not a single former businessman in Obama's cabinet, yet a bunch of academics that probably can't even change a spark plug are gonna tell GM how to run a car company.

Again, the problem is not their ability to manufacture cars, or even what cars they are manufacturing, it's that a lot of people that want their cars can't get financed like they could in the past.

You don't need to know how to even open the hood of a car to run a car company... Management is not production. All he needs to know how to do is learn how to tell the unions to fuck themselves.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I think GM is better of cleaning out its division and brand names, either get rid and downsize workforce and losing brands thats not achieving sales targets....or brands that are successful, sell them.

[coyotes_geek]

Ha! If that's the case, then they don't really deserve any money, do they? The whole point of getting taxpayer money is to funnel that out to small businesses and whatnot.

There are NON risky loans out there for the taking; it's just easier for them to say, "No one is worth the risk!" and still try to keep money.

If they don't want to lend, fine. Just don't take our money.

I agree, but then Paulson did start this whole thing off by telling the banks "you're taking our money whether you like it or not". Not taking the money wasn't an option for some of these banks.

[coyotes_geek]

Again, the problem is not their ability to manufacture cars, or even what cars they are manufacturing, it's that a lot of people that want their cars can't get financed like they could in the past.

The problem is that they can't sell their cars for what it costs them to make their cars. Blaming the credit mess is just an excuse. They were losing money long before that blew up. They are being hurt by potential consumers not buying, but anyone with good credit who wants to buy a car can still find financing for it. Every car commercial I see on TV these days is offering up financing.

[mogrovejo]

For how long has GM been restructuring, cleaning itself, designing new plans, reorganizing, getting real, rescaling and all that jazz? Twenty years? They weren't even making serious money in a bubble economy.

This is an absolute disgrace, and another sign of the dumbness of this administration, because now GM won't be allowed to fail - the Withe House won't allow GM to go bankrupt "under my watch", especially after getting to this degree of involvement.

Therefore, good, healthy companies are losing market share and capital and quality human resources to a bad company that is kept alive for the political convenience of the government.

Obviously, in a few years, it'll be Ford that is going to need a bail-out. But hey, then we can always blame the market.