Spurs Talent Scounts/ Front Office= Overrated

[duncan2k5]

Why do we get all these decent players, then let them go? Pops was our latest that we had, now he is in toronto ripping it up...we had barbosa, scola, Hedo, Beno, the list goes on...just venting...

[Duncan2177]

Why do we get all these decent players, then let them go? Pops was our latest that we had, now he is in toronto ripping it up...we had barbosa, scola, Hedo, Beno, the list goes on...just venting...

Because Peter Holt is a cheap bastard.

[Yuixafun]

SJax is the one that got away.

[crc21209]

Pops isnt exactly posting 20 and 10...calm down :lol

[Bukefal]

They know what they are doing. Look at all the great players, they didnt let go. thats what you dont see

[crc21209]

Why do we get all these decent players, then let them go? Pops was our latest that we had, now he is in toronto ripping it up...we had barbosa, scola, Hedo, Beno, the list goes on...just venting...

Now that I think of it...Pops was just a D-league player...nothing too special there yet. The Barbosa pick was made for the Suns, not for us. Hedo sucked balls when he was here, now 4 years later is doing good in Orlando. Beno blowed..enough said. The FO should get some credit for bringing in guys like Mason and KT...and drafting Hill as well...like someone else here said...they know what they're doing.

[purist]

Why do we get all these decent players, then let them go? Pops was our latest that we had, now he is in toronto ripping it up...we had barbosa, scola, Hedo, Beno, the list goes on...just venting...

barbosa was a draft day trade; never played for spurs.

Hedo? not much different that Bonner.

beno? you're kidding right?

scola? I'll give you that one.

[jrmp317]

barbosa was a draft day trade; never played for spurs.

hedo? Not much different that bonner.

beno? You're kidding right?

Scola? I'll give you that one.

wow

[EricB]

Scola and Stephen jackson are the only big fuckups know of. Beno sucks ass and hedo thrives cause there is no pressure in the regular season in Orlando.

[JWest596]

SJAX made his own bed. SA offered him more than what he finally took from Atlanta. And for the Spurs fans who cannot grasp the concept "fiscal responsibility", this team cannot go deep into the red, the owners past and present can't allow it and won't. The 700K we went into the luxury tax a few years back cost the team over 4 million dollars. And the Spurs usually use the tax rebate to subsidize their operating expenses.

And its time to move past "woulda, coulda, shoulda over the spilled milk" that is Luis Scola. This team will operate in a fiscal manner above all else and has for years. It's not an option or a debate and Holt isn't required to go into debt to service your spedthrift - spend like a drunken sailor" ways. The team has exceeded every team in the most prudent fiscal means because IT HAS TO and ask Dallas, and New Yorks, championships can't be bought.

Overrated my ass.

[EricB]

Great post jwest

[bringbackmario]

SJAX made his own bed. SA offered him more than what he finally took from Atlanta. And for the Spurs fans who cannot grasp the concept "fiscal responsibility", this team cannot go deep into the red, the owners past and present can't allow it and won't. The 700K we went into the luxury tax a few years back cost the team over 4 million dollars. And the Spurs usually use the tax rebate to subsidize their operating expenses.

And its time to move past "woulda, coulda, shoulda over the spilled milk" that is Luis Scola. This team will operate in a fiscal manner above all else and has for years. It's not an option or a debate and Holt isn't required to go into debt to service your spedthrift - spend like a drunken sailor" ways. The team has exceeded every team in the most prudent fiscal means because IT HAS TO and ask Dallas, and New Yorks, championships can't be bought.

Overrated my ass.

well said

[MaNu4Tres]

Your probably right. Without the lucky ping pong ball in 97, I'm pretty sure Pop and R.C would be coaching back in the college ranks or perhaps Europe. Fortunately enough they got lucky and were able to draft a player by the name of Tim Duncan. Talk about job security.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL typical idiots..

do you guys realize how difficult it is to be a contender EVERY YEAR since '98? do you guys realize how difficult it is to win 4 titles in that short span? do you guys realize how difficult it is to build a future without ANY lottery picks?..

we have a great team, a lot of talent..sorry to break it to you..

#2 in the West despite major injuries and major chemistry issues due to new players and injuries..pretty impressive..

Pops has done nothing when he's played against actual rotation players..he's putting up numbers in blowouts and against other teams scrubs..his major flaw is defense, which is the same flaw as Gooden..

stop reaching..

[vander]

LOL typical idiots..

do you guys realize how difficult it is to be a contender EVERY YEAR since '98? do you guys realize how difficult it is to win 4 titles in that short span? do you guys realize how difficult it is to build a future without ANY lottery picks?..

we have a great team, a lot of talent..sorry to break it to you..

#2 in the West despite major injuries and major chemistry issues due to new players and injuries..pretty impressive..

Pops has done nothing when he's played against actual rotation players..he's putting up numbers in blowouts and against other teams scrubs..his major flaw is defense, which is the same flaw as Gooden..

stop reaching..

the dificulty level decreases greatly when you have the greatest PF in NBA history, 4 titles with TD is far from exceptional. but you keep thinking that they're perfect, Front Offices love fans like that :lol

[JWest596]

4 titles with TD is far from exceptional. but you keep thinking that they're perfect, Front Offices love fans like that

^^ Ask the 20+ other teams and their fans that spend more, get less and have never won a championship.

I couldn't disagree more.

[vander]

^^ Ask the 20+ other teams and their fans that spend more, get less and have never won a championship.

I couldn't disagree more.

how many of those teams had the best PF ever? or the best anything ever? or even a top 5 at any position?

[JWest596]

4 titles with TD is far from exceptional

That's where I disagree the most. Sorry your battleship just got sunk.

[Harry Callahan]

Would someone tell me all the front offices that did not make a mistake or two along the way? I think SA has done a great job overall. Every team has deals they regret in hindsite. ALL OF THEM.

Stephen Jackson was a free agent in 2003 and left. He was replaced by hedo for one year. They both took $35-40MM contracts in 2004. The Spurs had to resign Manu in 2004 as he had a 2 year deal initially. Do you honestly think SA could have signed Jackson, Hedo, and/or Manu in 2004 each of them getting pretty large contracts that would exceed $100MM in total. On top of that, Parker was resigned within a year or two of that for over $60MM.

You live in a fantasy land if you think SA could have kept all these guys under the fiscal constrants given the FO has to operate under. The Spurs kept the right guys because they have two trophys since 2003's championship.

BTW, I'm glad Barbosa was taken for the Suns and we used that #1 pick we got to trade for Nazr M in 2005 which was a key to winning the 05 title. It was a short term, but positive deal.

[vander]

That's where I disagree the most. Sorry your battlleship just got sunk.

Oh I see, yes your disagreement is far more powerful the second time you voice it, I wonder what would happen if you disagreed a third time :wow:wow

[JWest596]

Oh I see, yes your disagreement is far more powerful the second time you voice it, I wonder what would happen if you disagreed a third time :wow:wow

^^ Ask the 20+ other teams and their fans that spend more, get less and have never won a championship.


4 titles with TD is far from exceptional

It is exceptional, it is remarkable, and it truly means something when a Abdul Jabar has 6 rings in the modern NBA. It was IMO, an idiotic remark.

I STILL couldn't disagree more. Grasp it.

[vander]

^^ Ask the 20+ other teams and their fans that spend more, get less and have never won a championship.



It is exceptional, it is remarkable, and it truly means something when a Abdul Jabar has 6 rings in the modern NBA. It was IMO, an idiotic remark.

I STILL couldn't disagree more. Grasp it.

:rollin

so you still refuse to acknowledge the greatness of TD? or do you think that our FO is somehow better than other FO's because we obtained TD while they could only aquire lesser talent for the same money :rollin

oh well, as long as you keep comparing us to the trash of the league instead of to our own full potential, you will be happy. :toast

[JWest596]

:rollin

so you still refuse to acknowledge the greatness of TD? or do you think that our FO is somehow better than other FO's because we obtained TD while they could only aquire lesser talent for the same money :rollin

oh well, as long as you keep comparing us to the trash of the league instead of to our own full potential, you will be happy. :toast

WTH?

You're making no sense at all. It was your statement that his four titles were "far from exceptional".

Let me know when you figure out what the heck you are talking about while you accuse me of ignoring the greatness of Tim Duncan and his 'unexceptional' four titles.

[jag]

SJAX made his own bed. SA offered him more than what he finally took from Atlanta. And for the Spurs fans who cannot grasp the concept "fiscal responsibility", this team cannot go deep into the red, the owners past and present can't allow it and won't. The 700K we went into the luxury tax a few years back cost the team over 4 million dollars. And the Spurs usually use the tax rebate to subsidize their operating expenses.

And its time to move past "woulda, coulda, shoulda over the spilled milk" that is Luis Scola. This team will operate in a fiscal manner above all else and has for years. It's not an option or a debate and Holt isn't required to go into debt to service your spedthrift - spend like a drunken sailor" ways. The team has exceeded every team in the most prudent fiscal means because IT HAS TO and ask Dallas, and New Yorks, championships can't be bought.

Overrated my ass.

Good post.
It's easy to tell someone else to spend their money.

[crc21209]

And another thing...Keeping Tim, Tony, & Manu together and winning 4 ships' in the last 9 years > Beno, Hedo, and anyone else the Spurs have "screwed" up on.

[cd98]

Hard to win a title with mediocre talent so no loss with the Beno trade, except that we could have used his overratedness to get a good player in return (but he wasn't overrated until he went to Sacramento).

Hedo wanted too much money. We could afford a Roger Mason, Oberto and a Udoka for that price tag. With a team as poor as the Spurs, you have to go for the best deals sometimes.

Scola- a nightmare. To think they actually felt Oberto=Scola.

Jackson- too much money, but boy he would have come in handy over the last few years.

Come back and complain about the moves when one of those guys wins a championship for another team.

[MrChug]

You call yourself a Spurs fan? What a troll...

[jag]

Pops was our latest that we had, now he is in toronto ripping it up

:lmao

[Doug Collins]

how many of those teams had the best PF ever? or the best anything ever? or even a top 5 at any position?

Karl Malone - 0 titles
Kevin Garnett - 1 title
Charles Barkley- 0 titles
Patrick Ewing- 0 titles

You fail.

[MaNu4Tres]

Karl Malone - 0 titles
Kevin Garnett - 1 title
Charles Barkley- 0 titles
Patrick Ewing- 0 titles

You fail.

Considering 3 of those guys played in the era Jordan played in. I understand why they would fail. Duncan would have too.


As for Garnett. He's overrated and shouldn't be put in that group.

[tlongII]

I've been saying this for years. The Spurs' FO can't draft at all. They haven't made a decent draft-day decision since they picked Tony Parker. George Hill? Are you effing kidding me? If they wanted a backup PG they should have taken Mario Chalmers.

[Doug Collins]

Considering 3 of those guys played in the era Jordan played in. I understand why they would fail. Duncan would have too.


As for Garnett. He's overrated and shouldn't be put in that group.

Assuming Jordan didn't exist:

Malone - 2 titles
Ewing - 1 title
Barkley - 1 title

4 titles = exceptional

[crc21209]

I've been saying this for years. The Spurs' FO can't draft at all. They haven't made a decent draft-day decision since they picked Tony Parker. George Hill? Are you effing kidding me? If they wanted a backup PG they should have taken Mario Chalmers.


:sleep

[Yuixafun]

WTH?

You're making no sense at all. It was your statement that his four titles were "far from exceptional".

Let me know when you figure out what the heck you are talking about while you accuse me of ignoring the greatness of Tim Duncan and his 'unexceptional' four titles.


He's saying that winning 4 titles with a player of Tim Duncan's magnitude (argueably the top PF of all time) makes it less of an accomplishment on the front office's part, and is more of a testament to his greatness.

Had the front office been better or more astute at drafting, Timmy might have 6 rings.

Other than TP and Manu who have the Spurs found during TD's career...

When you do luck out and have a player for the ages, you want to do right by him, surround him with the best talent available..

Instead of abusing him by trying to get by on his talent alone, thus shortening his career because he's had to shoulder such a heavy load.

The Front office has done well without paying exhorbitive amounts of money. But they are not without fault.

Maybe they could have bit the bullet on Sjackson and we wouldn't be still pining for an athletic, defensively capable 3.. five years later.


-personally i am so happy and grateful that we've had a chance every year since TD started playing for us, and even with a few FO hiccups, barring a couple injuries and a meltdown against the Lakers and we very well could have 7 championship banners! Spurs fans are spoiled.

[SenorSpur]

Jackson- too much money, but boy he would have come in handy over the last few years.


Jax is the only player that ranks on my list as one that I truly wish would've worked out. The fact that he got away is no fault of theirs. Yet, the fact that the Spurs have not been adequately been able to replace him with any player or combination of players with his requisite size, skills, talent and moxie is unfortunate. Spurs win 2 more titles with him in the fold. No doubt.

Jax's absence is made even more glaring because the FO has not developed a true SF during the 5 years since he left the building. This is significant because now Bowen and Finley, while still productive, yet both are 36+ and have declined considerably. Meanwhile, Udoka has heart, but is limited in his skill set. In my mind, the FO ignored this position and waited too long to address it. At a position that houses some of the most talented and most feared athletes in the league, you simply cannot continue to trot out old guys or guys that have limited, athletic skill sets. For that, the FO should be criticized.

Overall, I commend the FO for going about the impossible task of keeping the team fiscally sound, yet still winning titles along the way. A good example of the benefits of that fiscal responsibility is the acquisition of Drew Gooden. Had the Spurs been frivolous and had blown all of their MLE this summer (like Dallas did), they would never have been in a position to obtain him, without having to dump salary or exceed the cap to do it.

The FO has a proven track record of success and their body of work is such that they should be roundly commended. However, sometimes that success can be attributed to just dumb luck, as Pop likes to say. Like their ill-fated pursuit of Jason Kidd and him electing not to come to the Spurs. Or the NBA Lottery ping pong balls coming up in your favor (twice in 10 years) and thus enabling the team to draft, not one, but two franchise centers. Those are not good front office decisions, just dumb luck. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[Yuixafun]

Grats on 7777 ^^

Go buy a lotto ticket.

And a good post to boot.

Jax swagger is what I miss most.

[cd98]

The reality is most franchises with "talent" are people that overspend on the mid-level (talent has name, but skills don't match the paycheck), pay a high luxury tax, and don't win championships.

What team front office is good at drafting/making basketball decisions? And where are their championships to prove it?

And what team other than the Spurs is a title contender each year and not paying the luxury tax?

We have to play by the economic rules. We win and we do it under the luxury tax.

Other teams, like the Mavs and Lakers pay the luxury tax and have no championships to show for it. (By Lakers, I mean last year they were over the cap and didn't win a championship. We'll see what they do this year.).

[duncan2k5]

my popint is that we were in position to have a much better team than we have now...we let go players thinking they were trash when they weren't.

and if you judge hedo's 2004 chokage against the lakers as the reason he shoudl have been booted, then we would have no one from that team on the roster in 05...

i knew watching hedo that year thet he was a very valuable piece...but everyone bagged on him...same with beno...heck...he even plays better defense than parker...so that's no excuse for keeping him out of the lineup...

no one is asking pops to score 20/10...but he brings a spark that we dont get from out bigmen...dont play that sour grapes game with me...

[Ocotillo]

Considering 3 of those guys played in the era Jordan played in. I understand why they would fail. Duncan would have too.

I think if Duncan could have magically been added to the Spurs roster back in 91 or 92, I believe the Spurs would have taken a few of the rings that Jordan won. Robinson and Duncan together in both of their primes would have been strong. The Rockets would never have won either.

The wild card though is coaching staff was weak post-Larry Brown and pre-Popovich. So maybe not.

91/92 Brown was replaced mid-season by Bob Bass
92/93 The Tark era begins and is quickly supplanted by John Lucas
93/94 More Lucas
95/95 Bob Hill shows up and stays until the 96/97 season

Unless Larry Brown changed his mind and stayed, maybe there would be no rings in the Jordan era for the Spurs even if Duncan had joined the team back then.

[SenorSpur]

People forget that organizational stability is as important as making sound personnel decisions. Look no further than the Phoenix Suns and their idiotic, chicken-fried owner as a model of how NOT to run your organization.

[Cry Havoc]

People are saying they want SJax on our team?

The same guy that's leading the league in turnovers this year?

Yeah, that's what we want. :eyeroll

[Yuixafun]

Golden states a mess.

If he was on this Spurs team, with 4 more years of tutelage under Pop, Duncan as his captain, and Manu, Tony, Bowen as his role models so to speak, surrounded by men of character and not characters...

There's no telling what type of monster he would be, with his tools developed differently and recieving better grooming as a player and a man.

You're going to point as his TO's for this season as the reason to dismiss him and make your point.

[Oh, Gee!!]

any poster asking why we let beno or hedo go must be eurotrash.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Had the front office been better or more astute at drafting, Timmy might have 6 rings.

Other than TP and Manu who have the Spurs found during TD's career...



OK, name another NBA franchise/front office, who have found more than 2 all-stars of the caliber of Parker and Manu drafting in the late first and second round.

Moreso, name the players the Spurs could have drafted but decided not to, who would have made us better.

When you think of these two questions you'll understand why your point is kinda moot.

[rascal]

Karl Malone - 0 titles
Kevin Garnett - 1 title
Charles Barkley- 0 titles
Patrick Ewing- 0 titles

You fail.


Player success and team success are two different things. Don't confuse the two. The above all are great players in their time.

[rascal]

OK, name another NBA franchise/front office, who have found more than 2 all-stars of the caliber of Parker and Manu drafting in the late first and second round.

Moreso, name the players the Spurs could have drafted but decided not to, who would have made us better.

When you think of these two questions you'll understand why your point is kinda moot.


The Celtics Garnett Allen and Pierce. There are more ways to build a franchise than just through the draft.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Celtics Garnett Allen and Pierce. There are more ways to build a franchise than just through the draft.

The Celtics used multiple years' worth of stockpiling lottery picked players in order to pull these trades. The Spurs, on the other hand, have never had a lottery pick since drafting Duncan.

[Muser]

Yeah, I guess a FO that picks up Manu Ginobili that late in the draft sucks..

[vander]

WTH?

You're making no sense at all. It was your statement that his four titles were "far from exceptional".

Let me know when you figure out what the heck you are talking about while you accuse me of ignoring the greatness of Tim Duncan and his 'unexceptional' four titles.

see if you can follow along...

Tim Duncan Is the Greatest PF of all time
good enough that all he needs to win titles is an average Front Office to put competent talent around him; but also good enough that with an ambitious and talented Front Office putting better than average talent around him, he could have 6 or 7 titles by now.

But you, for some reason believe the latter to be untrue, an impossibility even, you seem believe Duncan isn't that good because he has been surrounded with the best possible talent. Or maybe you believe that there is no such thing as great Front Office management, that it's mostly a crapshoot, and as long as the FO isn't sabotaging the team, it's doing the best job possible

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

see if you can follow along...

Tim Duncan Is the Greatest PF of all time
good enough that all he needs to win titles is an average Front Office to put competent talent around him; but also good enough that with an ambitious and talented Front Office putting better than average talent around him, he could have 6 or 7 titles by now.

But you, for some reason believe the latter to be untrue, an impossibility even, you seem believe Duncan isn't that good because he has been surrounded with the best possible talent. Or maybe you believe that there is no such thing as great Front Office management, that it's mostly a crapshoot, and as long as the FO isn't sabotaging the team, it's doing the best job possible

I'll play along, using the same logic.

Karl Malone was the greatest PF of all time before Duncan. What did he win being the one best PF the NBA had ever seen? There are a lot of other examples of course.

[vander]

Karl Malone - 0 titles
Kevin Garnett - 1 title
Charles Barkley- 0 titles
Patrick Ewing- 0 titles

You fail.

wow, you had to reach back a ways just to find 4 Front offices that did less with their great talent :rolleyes:lol

the 3 problems with your arguement are
1. those guys are all chockers who pale in comparison to TD
2. they all would have titles if it weren't for a certain MJ
3. you are trying to say that the Spurs FO is great just because they outperformed 4 other "great talent" teams in the last 20 years?

that was quite the pathetic attemt

[JWest596]

see if you can follow along...

Tim Duncan Is the Greatest PF of all time
good enough that all he needs to win titles is an average Front Office to put competent talent around him; but also good enough that with an ambitious and talented Front Office putting better than average talent around him, he could have 6 or 7 titles by now.

But you, for some reason believe the latter to be untrue, an impossibility even, you seem believe Duncan isn't that good because he has been surrounded with the best possible talent. Or maybe you believe that there is no such thing as great Front Office management, that it's mostly a crapshoot, and as long as the FO isn't sabotaging the team, it's doing the best job possible

See if you can construct a competent non rambling argument devoid of bull shit. YOU CLAIMED in a singular stand alone sentence that Duncan's 4 titles were "far from exceptional". I disagree. Kobe Bryant doesn't have 4 rings and yes I think the FO has done a great job in drafting because the Spurs will always be a fiscal team. and that's not going to change. You have to do with what you've got. Name a current team that has done better?

I'll wait.

Now you're putting words in my mouth implying some convoluted delusional argument on what I believe. You use homer "Woulda, coulda shoulda" nonsense that if the FO had acquired some sort of better players they should have won more titles. Well if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

When you figure what you are trying to say , let me know because obviously you gotten off your meds.

Get some more posters to clarify what you mean obviously they can understand your incoherence better than me since you're incapable.

[rascal]

see if you can follow along...

Tim Duncan Is the Greatest PF of all time
good enough that all he needs to win titles is an average Front Office to put competent talent around him; but also good enough that with an ambitious and talented Front Office putting better than average talent around him, he could have 6 or 7 titles by now.

But you, for some reason believe the latter to be untrue, an impossibility even, you seem believe Duncan isn't that good because he has been surrounded with the best possible talent. Or maybe you believe that there is no such thing as great Front Office management, that it's mostly a crapshoot, and as long as the FO isn't sabotaging the team, it's doing the best job possible

Agree. The front office has rode on Duncan's greatness. There is nothing more than just getting lucky in the lottery that brought the spurs their titles.

[JWest596]

Agree. The front office has rode on Duncan's greatness.

There is nothing more than just getting lucky in the lottery that brought the spurs their titles.

And so did Chicago with Jordan, Boston with Bird, Los Angeles with Bryant and on and on. Would the Spurs have gotten better talent without busting the bank? I have no doubt. But that's not what the Spurs can do and they won't. This team will be fiscally responsible or it will probably cease to exist in San Antonio. This team will disintegrate aka move or get an out of town owner[s] with deeper pockets and all the dangers that can come from it.
The serious times that the Spurs talked about moving or being sold were due from a poor venue/poor ticket sales in the post Ice-pre DROB times and they were real. This team has been incredibly successful at maximizing using what they have. The most with the least and NO ONE has done better.

Name a team that has done better than yet the Spurs have had the fewest lottery teams of all teams in the NBA and that includes the pre-Pop years. His and RC's management has been even better. So the talk that the FO is over rated or could have done better is in my mindis sheer utter nonsense. This is the what being a small market team is all about. We aren't big media Boston, LA, NY, Chicago and we don't have "billionare owners" like Cuban and Paul Allen who are still bridesmaids yet spend millions more than SA.

Don't you remember the real concerns and future signings/plans jeopardized and the luxury tax implications when the Spurs gave Malik Rose that enormous contract? You could hear the sigh of relief from coast to coast when they unloaded it. It allowed to the Spurs to retain many of the present superb players who contribute today. And Manu and Tony could be making a hell of a lot more money elsewhere. Nor do I discount the Ice's or the DROB's or the TD's at all in anyway whatsoever as this team has been extremely fortunate and blessed goes without question. But I doubt the would have stayed under a terrible management especially in the age of NBA free agency. But exceptional talent and a endless deep pocket owner[s], big media market towns with the ability to buy anything is not a guarantee in the slightest.

And if great players were the only requirement there would be a hell of a lot of rings among teams in the NBA other than Chicago, LA or San Antonio in the last decade or so. It's no accident that NBA owners are emulating the Spurs system or acquiring our personnel.

No team or front office has done more with less, won more championships than San Antonio. And you can say that if we had acquired _____ or better players and exceeded the teams fiscal limitations, there might not even be a Spurs team in SA now.

I repeat an emphatic "Overrated"?...my ass they are. They've made mistakes but all teams have and fewer still have done better.
Wait until RC and Pop are gone and see what a bad FO is all about. Then you'll have a real reason to complain.

[vander]

And so did Chicago with Jordan, Boston with Bird, Los Angeles with Bryant and on and on. Would the Spurs have gotten better talent without busting the bank? I have no doubt. But that's not what the Spurs can do and they won't. This team will be fiscally responsible or it will probably cease to exist in San Antonio. This team will disintegrate aka move or get an out of town owner[s] with deeper pockets and all the dangers that can come from it.
The serious times that the Spurs talked about moving or being sold were due from a poor venue/poor ticket sales in the post Ice-pre DROB times and they were real. This team has been incredibly successful at maximizing using what they have. The most with the least and NO ONE has done better.

Name a team that has done better than yet the Spurs have had the fewest lottery teams of all teams in the NBA and that includes the pre-Pop years. His and RC's management has been even better. So the talk that the FO is over rated or could have done better is in my mindis sheer utter nonsense. This is the what being a small market team is all about. We aren't big media Boston, LA, NY, Chicago and we don't have "billionare owners" like Cuban and Paul Allen who are still bridesmaids yet spend millions more than SA.

Don't you remember the real concerns and future signings/plans jeopardized and the luxury tax implications when the Spurs gave Malik Rose that enormous contract? You could hear the sigh of relief from coast to coast when they unloaded it. It allowed to the Spurs to retain many of the present superb players who contribute today. And Manu and Tony could be making a hell of a lot more money elsewhere. Nor do I discount the Ice's or the DROB's or the TD's at all in anyway whatsoever as this team has been extremely fortunate and blessed goes without question. But I doubt the would have stayed under a terrible management especially in the age of NBA free agency. But exceptional talent and a endless deep pocket owner[s], big media market towns with the ability to buy anything is not a guarantee in the slightest.

And if great players were the only requirement there would be a hell of a lot of rings among teams in the NBA other than Chicago, LA or San Antonio in the last decade or so. It's no accident that NBA owners are emulating the Spurs system or acquiring our personnel.

No team or front office has done more with less, won more championships than San Antonio. And you can say that if we had acquired _____ or better players and exceeded the teams fiscal limitations, there might not even be a Spurs team in SA now.

I repeat an emphatic "Overrated"?...my ass they are. They've made mistakes but all teams have and fewer still have done better.
Wait until Duncan is gone and see what this FO is really made of

fixed

but the main reason we will never see eye to eye is because you keep comparing our Front Office to the average incompetent Front Office that prevails in this league, While I compare them against the potential the Spurs once had.
you seem to think that 4 titles in 12 years is the peak of performance, that no FO could possibly accomplish more, that 5 or 6 or 7 is an impossibility. I dissagree, 6 was well within our reach, even 7 a possibility

[koriwhat]

I've been saying this for years. The Spurs' FO can't draft at all. They haven't made a decent draft-day decision since they picked Tony Parker. George Hill? Are you effing kidding me? If they wanted a backup PG they should have taken Mario Chalmers.

hahaha... I've been saying this for years. Portlands' FO can't draft at all. They haven't made a decent draft-day decision since they picked Sam Bowie(haha). Greg Oden? Are you effing kidding me? If they wanted a real star who has seen more then a month on the nba hardwood then they should have taken Kevin Durant.

[JWest596]

fixed

but the main reason we will never see eye to eye is because you keep comparing our Front Office to the average incompetent Front Office that prevails in this league, While I compare them against the potential the Spurs once had.
you seem to think that , that no FO could possibly accomplish more, that 5 or 6 or 7 is an impossibility. I disagree, 6 was well within our reach, even 7 a possibility.

Again, where did I even make such assertions? I certainly never said "4 titles in 12 years is the peak of performance that no FO could possibly accomplish more, that 5 or 6 or 7 is an impossibility." yet no single NBA team has done better than the Spurs in the last ten years. You claimed it was " not exceptiona"l. It's not hard to grasp..

That's why your argument is a specious because fantasy and hindsight while debatable, this simple fact remains that no NBA team has done better of late and that Tim Duncan's 4 titles are exceptional (Your claim it's not, not mine.) but feel free to tell me more of what I didn't say. Because in my world when you do it better than anybody else, I regard that very highly. Funny me.

But I'm glad you finally understand that "wishes and buts" are largely irrelevant. As to "fixed"? what does that even mean, that you finally get it?

Again I repeat that no team has done better yet the claim that our FO is "overrated" and undeserving of superlative recognition because we could have achieved more? While it's thread fodder, it is worth little. Does Tony Parker wish Eva Langoria was more beautiful and famous? I care very little.

The fact remains is that it is exceptional in the current state of the NBA and rare and against bigger and better financed big market deep pocket teams. And if you're not going to retract your statement that Tim's 4 titles aren't exceptional, it's not me that needs to be fixed. That was and still is the original disagreement and why we will not see eye to eye. Jeez Louise.

[duncan2k5]

I would agree they are over rated.
-While hitting home runs with Manu and TP they let Jax walk because they refused to pay him the 5mil pr year he wanted instead offering him less than 3 a year. Hedo went to Orl with the mid level 5.1mil pr year. Antonio D who is a nice player and a combo guy that would have helped us for years and fixed the backup pg problem years ago we let him walk refusing to pay 4mil pr.

-The draft issues are more disturbing to me. They give away first round picks like candy. They draft Hill, who has been up and down this year and has looked like a bust compaired to Chalmers and Jordan both of those guys could have helped us more this year. Draft Splitter knowing he may never come over, he pulled shit 3 prior drafts that made other teams pass on him which is why he fell to us.

-You have a need for a defensive, long, athletic 3, you draft one then send him to Eruo while you try to develop a 6-5 Rookie SF that cant shoot.

Right now I would give the FO a C+ for the last 5 years.

exactly!!!

[JWest596]

I would agree they are over rated.
-While hitting home runs with Manu and TP they let Jax walk because they refused to pay him the 5mil pr year he wanted instead offering him less than 3 a year.

Nor did anyone else pay or offer more to SJAX so he went to Atlanta for a one year million dollar contract.

They're "overrated" but they hit homeruns?

And While I like SJAX as a player, This team has always been fiscally conservative because it has to, not because it doesn't want to. It's why Scola is not here. It's whether they have the money or the desire to commit long term and endanger future opportunities and long term viability. Damn the FO for their long term foresight.
I guess that's why the Spurs have had the fewest lottery teams than any other NBA team. Selfish continual winning .500+ bastards that they are.

Winning for just today and throwing the dice has been so successful in the past and for so many teams. Let's count the Dallas. Phoenix and Knick's rings. I'm blinded by their reflections off their Larry O Brien trophies.

Agree to disagree.

[rascal]

Oh I see, yes your disagreement is far more powerful the second time you voice it, I wonder what would happen if you disagreed a third time :wow:wow

I like Vander's logic.

[JWest596]

I like Vander's logic.

Get a room.

[Lars]

Thank you for Scola.

[rascal]

The front office has relied on luck. Sometimes its better to be lucky then good.
The luck of getting two franchise centers Robinson and Duncan to play together for a span of 6 years ( that led to the first two titles). The luck of not having any dominate franchise like the Bulls of the MJ era or the Celtics of the 60's or the Lakers of the Magic era to contend with.

I look at the players the spurs have gotten through the draft, trades or free agency and it is a weak list compared to what some other teams have done.

Can this front office turn around a down franchise without getting a top franchise big man luckily in the draft? I doubt it. Nothing indicates that they can by their player moves.


That window of no dominate team to contend with in the league is now closing with the lakers stepping into that dominate more talented team that has and will more often beat the spurs.

[rascal]

Get a room.

Get some logic and come back.

[urunobili]

I've been saying this for years. The Spurs' FO can't draft at all. They haven't made a decent draft-day decision since they picked Tony Parker. George Hill? Are you effing kidding me? If they wanted a backup PG they should have taken Mario Chalmers.

Spurs have insider info at Kansas... there is a reason why Chalmers is a second round pick... remember the pot issue? :deadhorse

[JWest596]

Get some logic and come back.

Refute it or try to grasp it. Or just make up stuff unrelated, obfuscate and/or ignore it.

The logic comes as a conclusion, not as a condition.

[ducks]

Scola and Stephen jackson are the only big fuckups know of. Beno sucks ass and hedo thrives cause there is no pressure in the regular season in Orlando.

spurs offered more money to sj then any team
sj also said he could only play for pop
it would have been sj OR manu
manu would be in denver if sj is on spurs

[ducks]

The front office has relied on luck. Sometimes its better to be lucky then good.
The luck of getting two franchise centers Robinson and Duncan to play together for a span of 6 years ( that led to the first two titles). The luck of not having any dominate franchise like the Bulls of the MJ era or the Celtics of the 60's or the Lakers of the Magic era to contend with.

I look at the players the spurs have gotten through the draft, trades or free agency and it is a weak list compared to what some other teams have done.

Can this front office turn around a down franchise without getting a top franchise big man luckily in the draft? I doubt it. Nothing indicates that they can by their player moves.


That window of no dominate team to contend with in the league is now closing with the lakers stepping into that dominate more talented team that has and will more often beat the spurs.

what teams have done better then spurs

there are not very many gasol for k brown deals out there


the hedo deal was a great deal at the time

[SPURS vs NBA media]

Why do we get all these decent players, then let them go? Pops was our latest that we had, now he is in toronto ripping it up...we had barbosa, scola, Hedo, Beno, the list goes on...just venting...

Beno:lol:lol:lol

[ducks]

is SJ>MANU?

[vander]

is sj>manu?

2009-