Initial Reaction: Spurs vs. Thunder Mar. 31

[timvp]

After the loss against the Hornets, I thought the Spurs deserved a break. Tough place to play, Big Three just reunited and going up against a desperate team. Tonight? This loss against the Thunder has to be considered the worst regular season loss of the season.

The Thunder have some nice pieces for the future but there are plenty of reasons why they were 0-19 on the road against teams above .500 heading into the game. Oklahoma City had no business being in the contest against a Spurs team that should have been focused following the loss against the Hornets and the previous loss against this same Thunder squad the last time these two teams battled. Instead, the Spurs laid an egg. When the embarrassment of a performance finally ended, the Spurs had lost 96-95.

I'm extremely disappointed in how the Spurs played. They don't look anything close to a championship team right now. There are available excuses but there's no combination of excuses that will explain away this loss. It was a pathetic performance by a team that seems to have lost its way. Combine that with injury woes and it's difficult to imagine this team putting the pieces together in time to win a NBA championship.

-If you just look at Tim Duncan's line, one would assume he had a solid ballgame. But the truth doesn't match the numbers. The truth is that the Thunder sent a minimum amount of help his way. All they did was have a few players reach after Duncan put the ball on the ground. In fact, Oklahoma City got so brazen at one point that they put Jeff Green on him. The lack of respect for Duncan's skills paid off because Duncan wasn't able to dominate single coverage. Obviously his struggles are health related but the time for excuses is over. Either Duncan becomes Duncan again or else the season is over.

-Manu Ginobili is another player whose stats look better than his actual output. Defensively, he had a few moments here and there but it was mostly a bad performance on that end of the court. On offense, Ginobili scored well enough but he wasn't making his typical smart basketball plays. He made a number of iffy decisions, including about three bad decisions in the last ten seconds of the game. It's not that surprising to learn that Ginobili finished with the worst plus/minus on the team for the second straight game. The silver lining is that his health and conditioning seem to be trending in a positive direction.

-After carrying the Spurs for a while, Tony Parker acted like it was his turn to rest. He had absolutely no energy for much of this game and was disappointing on both ends of the court. In a key stretch in the fourth quarter, Parker's play resulted in three consecutive turnovers. Instead of gearing up for the playoffs, Parker played one of his worst games of the season. No one is going to care about a few good games in March if Parker sputters to the finish line.

-I really just can't fathom what Pop sees in Finley. Pop seriously is treating Finley as if Finley is a part of the Big Four. And now that Pop is setting his rotation, that has resulted in Finely becoming an even bigger part of the team. I apologize to any of Finley's family members who may be reading this but Finley is not good enough anymore to be a key part of a championship team. He's just not. Durant slaughtered him repeatedly. It got sickening to watch after a while. It was even more sickening that Pop never made much of a move to fix the situation. In Pop's eyes, Finley must be some sort of cross between Bruce Bowen and Michael Jordan. Otherwise, I just can't explain the love affair any longer.

-It's difficult to hate on Matt Bonner too much after the effort he gave. He was the one player who kept fighting to try to win the game. But the results just weren't there. Even though he crashed the boards repeatedly, he only totaled one rebound. His three-point stroke isn't nearly as automatic as it was before he got threatened by the signing of Drew Gooden. Bonner played hard, defended pretty well but he wasn't really helping the cause too much.

-The yanking of Roger Mason, Jr. continues. Pop seems obsessed with ruining the one swingman free agent who seemed to be able to handle the pressure and thrive in his first year in San Antonio. After hanging him out to dry as the backup point guard for the last handful of weeks, Mason is now coming off the bench. Why did Pop have to tinker with Mason's role? Mason went from cold blooded assassin to 2004 Hedo with a tan.

-Ime Udoka once again got minutes. Ime Udoka once again got toasted on the defensive end. Apparently, the coaching staff thinks Udoka is a good defender. They must not actually watch him play. When matched up with Durant, Udoka was literally more helpless than Finley. At least Finley has decent length. Slowpoke-a is just too molasses-like to be a defensive option against any opposing perimeter player who ventures out onto the perimeter and is blessed with even a modicum of speed.

-Jacque Vaughn. Nice guy. Future NBA head coach. Tireless worker. Third string point guard. Pop's latest incarnation of the 2008-09 San Antonio Spurs rotation seemingly has Vaughn as the backup point guard. That's not going to work. It's just not. There's no way this team makes noise in the playoffs if they have to rely on Vaughn for production. His athleticism and quickness have slipped to the point that he can't be trusted beyond spot minutes. If Vaughn is the backup point guard heading into the playoffs, it will just be a matter of time before Pop gives up on that experiment and goes another direction. Guaranteed.

-Drew Gooden's effort is commendable. He's not backing down from the challenge of integrating himself into Spurs Basketball. But after tonight's game, I'm really starting to doubt whether he's capable. He's just not a smart enough player at either end. Offensively, he's a ball-stopper who constantly wants the ball in his hands. Defensively, he really has no clue what he's doing unless the player he's defending has the ball. Even then, he's still a below average defender. I want to hold out hope that the light will finally turn on in Gooden's head but fans of other teams he was a part of eventually figured out that the waiting was futile.

-Kurt Thomas has been the second best player on the team since the All-Star break. His reward? Apparently Pop planned to pull him completely out of the rotation. Thomas didn't get into the game until the fourth quarter. He actually played pretty well when finally given an opportunity out on the court. Hopefully it was just a matchup issue that Pop saw and that's the reason he held out Thomas. (God forbid Pop ever actually create a mismatch instead of always being the one to react to a perceived matchup problem.)

-As you may have figured out by reading this far, I wasn't overly impressed with the way Pop coached tonight. In fact, I truly believe Pop is in the worst coaching stretch of his career. He has no clue what he's doing and he's hurting this team - both in the short-term and the long-term. Pop has been instrumental in these recent losses and he's laying the foundation for a disappointing playoff exit. I seriously can't figure out what he's doing or any of the method to his current madness.

Overplaying Finley alone is enough for this team not to win a championship. But compound that issue by giving Finley tons of responsibilities on a nightly basis and it's just flabbergasting. I don't even want to type about it any more because it's such a horrible coaching decision.

Add to the Finley fiasco the backup point guard position being in shambles, Mason playing his worst basketball of the season thanks to Pop, the bigman rotation not anywhere close to being set and the fact that the experimenting is continuing on a quarter to quarter basis and you have a recipe for disaster. And that's not even mentioning the biggest threat to the championship hopes - the health of Duncan and Ginobili and the amount of gas in Parker's tank.

I'm not going to say that believe is dead but this is exactly like watching a car heading 50 miles per hour straight towards a cliff with the driver asleep at the wheel. Either the driver will wake up in time to avert disaster or the ending won't be pretty.

[Lars]

To be honest, I was pleasantly surprised.

[SpursDynasty]

The Spurs just missed a shot at the end.

[tony09manu]

The Spurs just missed a shot at the end.

We also didn't play defense in the first half. At that point, even if Bowen has regressed, we can't even try him out?

[HarlemHeat37]

I still think Gooden will be good for this team..he IS more of an individual player, but I like that..I think that's something we need on our bench if Manu is starting..we need a guy that has balls and can get us out of offensive droughts..

I don't like seeing plays ran for him where he's coming off screens and taking Js though..when we're jacking up 3s that aren't going in, why not run a play or 2 for Gooden inside?..


the benching of George Hill is just ridiculous..we finally have a player with great athleticism and length in the backcourt, but he can't get any playing time over Jacque Vaughn..

[DPG21920]

That is the honest truth. There is not much to be excited about right now. Much of this rest on Pops shoulders. Guys look confused, they have no role, or multiple roles they cannot handle; the team has no identity. Is this Tim's team? Tony's? Manu's?

It reminds me of AIG. Great company that did a few things very well. Then they got over confident and tried to take advantage of loop holes and branch out into ventures they had no experience in. It nearly caused a collapse of their core company.

However, this is the time where the fans can do their part. As much or as little as it might actually effect the team, the city needs to have the Spurs backs. Obviously, SpursTalk is the heart of the Spurs fan base. Question, vent, be frustrated, but above all, BELIEVE

[mexicanjunior]

Slowpoke-a is just too molasses-like to be a defensive option against any opposing perimeter player who ventures out onto the perimeter and is blessed with even a modicum of speed.


:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

I BELIEVE in the actual talent on this team..but I don't believe in the coach right now, and I never thought I would say that..

Bruce Bowen does not belong on the bench while Ime fucking Udoka is getting minutes..Finley shouldn't be playing more than 20 MPG..Kurt Thomas should be starting, but he isn't, and he's actually coming into the game in the 4th quarter instead..George Hill shouldn't be on the bench while Jacque "LOL" Vaughn is playing..

I believe in the talent on this team..but what the fuck?..

[SpursDynasty]

Our last five losses have been by an average of 2.4 points per game. In other words, we're playing as well as a 53-21 club, the shots just aren't falling our way in the closing seconds...

Nothing to be concerned about.

[peskypesky]

I BELIEVEBruce Bowen does not belong on the bench while Ime fucking Udoka is getting minutes..Finley shouldn't be playing more than 20 MPG..Kurt Thomas should be starting, but he isn't, and he's actually coming into the game in the 4th quarter instead..George Hill shouldn't be on the bench while Jacque "LOL" Vaughn is playing..

I agree with every point.

[mexicanjunior]

the benching of George Hill is just ridiculous..we finally have a player with great athleticism and length in the backcourt, but he can't get any playing time over Jacque Vaughn..

At the beginning of the year, I said Pop wouldn't trust Hill enough to give him minutes over Vaughn. It took 4 months but it looks like this has come to fruition...

[Don Quixote]

This loss should put to bed any notions of this Spurs team being a championship contender. They aren't.

They are a decent squad, sometimes capable of beating a playoff team here or there, but no more than that. In that sense, they are the teams of 91-94, 2001, or 2002 again. They had some good players, might even get on a roll, but were never serious contenders for the title.

They'll be gone long before the WC Finals.

[ElNono]

What's getting more and more evident is that everyone figured out that if they pack the lane, Tony is not going to drive, and we're going to live and die by the trey. And before ducks shows up and gets all pissy about this comment, let me tell you it's not TP's fault. We used to have guys like Rasho that couldn't make a layup, but at least knew how to set a screen around the basket so TP could lay it in. Heck, Horry used to set great screens for Tony.
What's kind of terrible about this is that a coach like Phil Jackson have been playing us like that since '03, and Pop *still* believes the only solution is hurling treys.
He also managed to destroy the confidence of a great shooter in Mason. I hope Mace finds his stroke in the next couple of weeks. I think if he can get back to knocking down about 40% of his shots we have enough to make some noise. Obviously, retarded moves like starting Manu over him tonight doesn't really help.

[Don Quixote]

Our last five losses have been by an average of 2.4 points per game. In other words, we're playing as well as a 53-21 club, the shots just aren't falling our way in the closing seconds...

Nothing to be concerned about.

You're right. After the Spurs lose in the first round, 4 games to 1, the NBA will review the games and change the close losses into victories.

Finals bound, baby! Wooo! :toast

[duncan228]

Obviously his struggles are health related but the time for excuses is over. Either Duncan becomes Duncan again or else the season is over.

Duncan said there are no excuses in his post game interview. He took the blame for not calling a time out, and he included himself when asked about Pop saying a "couple of people need to play better."

If Duncan can rise I know he will.

I'm cautiously optomistic that he can.

[ElNono]

That is the honest truth. There is not much to be excited about right now. Much of this rest on Pops shoulders. Guys look confused, they have no role, or multiple roles they cannot handle; the team has no identity. Is this Tim's team? Tony's? Manu's?

It reminds me of AIG. Great company that did a few things very well. Then they got over confident and tried to take advantage of loop holes and branch out into ventures they had no experience in. It nearly caused a collapse of their core company.

However, this is the time where the fans can do their part. As much or as little as it might actually effect the team, the city needs to have the Spurs backs. Obviously, SpursTalk is the heart of the Spurs fan base. Question, vent, be frustrated, but above all, BELIEVE

Count me in... I'll be here through thick and thin...:flag:

[DPG21920]

Look, the Spurs are getting open looks, that is not the problem. You can tell when you watch the games, the team has lost their way. No one knows when their number will be called, what their role will be or how to muster up energy.

It is a lack of coaching, a lack of focus and a lack of certainty and trust this team has had over the years. Missing good looks is not the cause of the losses, missing those looks is the effect of the other variables going into it.

[HarlemHeat37]

You're right. After the Spurs lose in the first round, 4 games to 1, the NBA will review the games and change the close losses into victories.

Finals bound, baby! Wooo! :toast

your points are stupid, because you're actually claiming that other West teams are better than us..

we aren't contender..but the Lakers are the only contender in the West, and Cleveland(maybe Boston) is the only contender in the East..

[mexicanjunior]

your points are stupid, because you're actually claiming that other West teams are better than us..



Considering the Spurs level of play over the last month, I would consider the Jazz and Rockets much stronger contenders than us...

[timvp]

This loss should put to bed any notions of this Spurs team being a championship contender. They aren't.

They are a decent squad, sometimes capable of beating a playoff team here or there, but no more than that. In that sense, they are the teams of 91-94, 2001, or 2002 again. They had some good players, might even get on a roll, but were never serious contenders for the title.

They'll be gone long before the WC Finals.I have stopped reading your posts after you've gone on record repeated times saying every player on the Lakers is better than every player on the Spurs.

:sleep

[ElNono]

Considering the Spurs level of play over the last month, I would consider the Jazz and Rockets much stronger contenders than us...

I disagree. I HAVE TO believe Pop will shorten the rotation in the playoffs, and playing at a slower pace we can beat both of those teams.

[Don Quixote]

I have stopped reading your posts after you've gone on record repeated times saying every player on the Lakers is better than every player on the Spurs.

:sleep

Well ... I've backed off from the PG position. I admit that Tony is better than the Laker PG's, but not by much.

And a healthy Tim is still better than any ONE of the Laker bigs.

But, other than that, I would take ANY Laker for any Spur, of a similar size, position, or "role."

[Whisky Dog]

The only chance that this team has is if these last two losses have been an embarassing wake up call.

Honestly I think the Spurs share Parker's attitude of the other night about the drudgery of having to play OKC. They are overlooking opponents and not respecting the game. Pop is coaching like he knows this season is over due to Timmys health and wants a 1st round exit. I'm about as close to throwing in the towel as I've ever been in a Spurs team that's playoff bound.

[Don Quixote]

your points are stupid, because you're actually claiming that other West teams are better than us..

we aren't contender..but the Lakers are the only contender in the West, and Cleveland(maybe Boston) is the only contender in the East..

Um ... yeah, other West teams are. I think the last month is proving that. If the Spurs cannot handle a non-playoff team, at home, in the home stretch of the season, what makes you think they can win tough ones in L.A., Utah, Houston, or New Orleans, let alone Cleveland (they won't get that far)?

[mexicanjunior]

I HAVE TO believe Pop will shorten the rotation in the playoffs, and playing at a slower pace we can beat both of those teams.

I think he will shorten the rotation also but plug in the wrong players to fill the majority of the minutes (Finley, Vaughn, Bonner, etc). Nothing over the last couple of weeks says otherwise to me...which is why I feel the Jazz and Rockets core lineups are in much better shape at this point.

[Borosai]

If the 2006 Miami Heat were able to win a championship, then so can the 2009 San Antonio Spurs (yes, that's the only positive thought I can muster).

This team has no identity. Well, maybe one: fucking chuckers. But they are no longer the dominant defensive team they once were. There is no rhyme or reason to their offense. Hell, when was the last time we saw such shitty execution at the end of games?

The effect injuries have had on team chemistry is evident, but the system isn't the same. Pop has gone soft: he's not rabid anymore, and the players are bored and not responding. How many embarassing losses do they need to experience before they wake up and play like they give a shit? The Spurs have the right players on the team. The problem lies in the fact that they are sitting on the bench or playing out of position. And then there's the defense. Cock.

[timvp]

This is like a bad dream. Pop has made Finley part of the Big Four. Bowen has been relegated to ball boy duties. Vaughn has replaced Hill in the rotation. RMJ has gone Hedo before the playoffs even begin. Gooden has made the bigman rotation even more jumbled. Duncan and Ginobili are about 70% health. Parker very well could have peaked too early. Pop is coaching like its preseason and there are eight games to go before the playoffs.

Unbelievable.

BBL.

[ElNono]

I think he will shorten the rotation also but plug in the wrong players to fill the majority of the minutes (Finley, Vaughn, Bonner, etc). Nothing over the last couple of weeks says otherwise to me...which is why I feel the Jazz and Rockets core lineups are in much better shape at this point.

I think Thomas will get the lion share at center, except for foul trouble. Finley will play, you know he will. Tony will play a lot more minutes than now. I don't really see Vaughn playing backup in the PO. Either Manu or Mason.
I just still believe Bowen will play a bigger role then. I have to.

[xtremesteven33]

Maybe Pop will "Throw in the towel" for the season and insert Bowen for Finley and Thomas for Bonner and there we go....we have our championship lineup :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

I would expect a lot more from people that think this will be the same team in the playoffs..while we definitely aren't a contender right now, the fact that our big 3 will be seeing a significant increase in playing time and EFFORT for the playoffs is enough to make us much better..

the Lakers are the only team in the West that hasn't had inconsistent stretches this season..

this team has a LONG way to go before we can have expectations..but the other teams in the West won't look any better..LA should have an easy time..

[timaios]

Wow !
I can't believe what's Pop doing with this team.
I am really angry now.
Damn, the coach part was the last thing i was worried about... until the last 4 weeks.
Now, i lost all my faith in Pop. I just can't believe it.

Only 8 games left. I don't care about losses, i don't care about seeding.
All i want is the old fashioned Pop.
Please, please, please, please... Pop, come back with the old school Spurs.
I beg you. :worthy:

:flag::flag::flag:

[tp2021]

Maybe Pop will "Throw in the towel" for the season and insert Bowen for Finley and Thomas for Bonner and there we go....we have our championship lineup :lol

I like the way you think...Pop gives up, and everyone is happy.

[Chomag]

Duncan said there are no excuses in his post game interview. He took the blame for not calling a time out, and he included himself when asked about Pop saying a "couple of people need to play better."

If Duncan can rise I know he will.

I'm cautiously optomistic that he can.

I'm still very optimistic on Timmy as well

I still think Timmy has another gear that he is saving. In his whole career He has always been a very steady player keeping it around 3rd gear . Thats far from saying he is not always trying but his health has seemed to set him in 2nd and 3rd gear where as seasons past he has always played a steady 3rd gear and then putting it into 4th for the playoff run.

I still think there is a ton of Timmy left and we will see the beast we all know very soon.

[xtremesteven33]

I like the way you think...Pop gives up, and everyone is happy.



haha yea we have our championship lineup by default. :lol

[mexicanjunior]

I don't really see Vaughn playing backup in the PO. Either Manu or Mason.

Mason is arguably worse than Vaughn as a backup PG. He simply cannot control his dribble against pressure defense, finish at the rim or stay in front of anyone with speed. Vaughn's shooting may be poor but he at least can get the ball up the court and make good decisions with the ball.

If Bowen were being saved for the playoffs, I truly feel Pop would be giving him run at this point of the season to keep him in rhythm. DNP-CD's pretty much confirm that he will be getting spot minutes at best...

[timaios]

This is like a bad dream. Pop has made Finley part of the Big Four. Bowen has been relegated to ball boy duties. Vaughn has replaced Hill in the rotation. RMJ has gone Hedo before the playoffs even begin. Gooden has made the bigman rotation even more jumbled. Duncan and Ginobili are about 70% health. Parker very well could have peaked too early. Pop is coaching like its preseason and there are eight games to go before the playoffs.

Unbelievable.

BBL.

I think Tony is just trying to adjust to Manu's return.
He took only 8 shots with Manu starting.
Manu was really great at the start of the game and it took away the offensive game of Tony. He never was in rhythm in offense.
With Manu coming from the bench, i think both Manu & Tony would have had a great game.

[baseline bum]

This is like watching the Spurs in '01-'02 when Bowen was injured, except he's fucking right there suited up and ready to play. I've always thought the championship window would slam shut when Bruce isn't able to play anymore, and this team is doing nothing to convince me otherwise right now.

[Whisky Dog]

4 titles and a lot of memories. It was a damn good run...

but now it's over. This team (like last year's) just doesn't have cohesion, consistency, or killer instinct. All three things they had in spades during the title runs.

Unless they hit the jackpot again it's over for the foreseeable future, but it was great while it lasted.

[ElNono]

Mason is arguably worse than Vaughn as a backup PG. He simply cannot control his dribble against pressure defense, finish at the rim or stay in front of anyone with speed. Vaughn's shooting may be poor but he at least can get the ball up the court and make good decisions with the ball.

It's different when you have another player(s) getting attention out there. I think come playoff time Pop will play at least 2 of the big 3 on the court at all times. He's done that before. I actually think Manu starting tonight has more to do with giving him more playing time with Tony and Timmy, than something that will stick. Unfortunately, while the ball flows better with Vaughn, he just can't keep up with anybody. Do you really want him guarding Aaron Brooks or Farmar? What ends up happening is he makes those silly fouls like tonight, that end up costing us a lot. So it's going to have to be Mason or Manu. If it's Vaughn, I don't think we're going far at all.


If Bowen were being saved for the playoffs, I truly feel Pop would be giving him run at this point of the season to keep him in rhythm. DNP-CD's pretty much confirm that he will be getting spot minutes at best...

I agree with you on that. That said, the playoffs end up being about matchups. I'm sure Bruce will get his fair shake at trying to slow down whoever it is. I just can't think Pop went from praising this guy top to bottom, to we don't need you anymore in the blink of an eye.

[mexicanjunior]

Do you really want him guarding Aaron Brooks or Farmar? What ends up happening is he makes those silly fouls like tonight, that end up costing us a lot. So it's going to have to be Mason or Manu. If it's Vaughn, I don't think we're going far at all.


Defensively, I don't think Mason would be much better and I can't see Manu being used in that role coming off of his injury. I like Manu running the show on offense and I hope he takes over that role in the playoffs but I don't see it happening.

[itzsoweezee]

-If you just look at Tim Duncan's line, one would assume he had a solid ballgame. But the truth doesn't match the numbers. The truth is that the Thunder sent a minimum amount of help his way. All they did was have a few players reach after Duncan put the ball on the ground. In fact, Oklahoma City got so brazen at one point that they put Jeff Green on him. The lack of respect for Duncan's skills paid off because Duncan wasn't able to dominate single coverage.



duncan was double-, and even triple-, teamed all night.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

There is simply not enough time for this team to become the well-oiled playoff machine we are accustomed to. It has just been one of those years. Injuries have killed our cohesiveness. Compounding the problem is Pop over thinking and not using the best young talent we've had since Ginobili.

Duncan not scoring in 1 on 1 coverage is the nail in the coffin.

Tonight we were just another three point chunking team whose threes did not fall down.

[peskypesky]

Hell, when was the last time we saw such shitty execution at the end of games?... The Spurs have the right players on the team. The problem lies in the fact that they are sitting on the bench or playing out of position.

indeed.

in the playoffs, Pop better pay Thomas and Bowen a lot more, or we're fucked. i don't want to see Udoka or Vaughan on the floor. i don't want to see Finley get more than 20-25 minutes (unless he's shit-hot).

and they better cut down the insane number of fucking three's they've been taking.

[kace]

well, bad loss.

didn't see the game. why was parker taking so few shots ?

lazy ? well defended ? lazy and well defended ? Pop's strange choice (it wouldn't be the first) ?

tony seems to struggle to find his place with the big three back. the first game was amazing with our three stars playing so efficiently.

but the last two games seemed to show tony have some difficulties to stay hot with the whole big three back. 8 shots attempts ? come on.....

[ElNono]

Defensively, I don't think Mason would be much better and I can't see Manu being used in that role coming off of his injury. I like Manu running the show on offense and I hope he takes over that role in the playoffs but I don't see it happening.

If it's a wash on defense, then we have to look at offense. And it's Mason hands down. But you know what's aggravating? Hill should be the backup PG. I agree with timvp that Vaughn is a third stringer and Mason is a SG, not a PG. I also think Pop erased Hill because he's afraid he's going to get rookie-fear in the playoffs, so he looks for alternatives. The reality is that if Hill panics, Manu is the only solution to the problem. But we knew that. I don't understand why he had to kill Hill's and Mason's confidence to end up with what we all already knew. It's like watching Nightmare on Elm Street 22. It's a horror flick, and a BAD flick at that.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Another huge mistake was Pop not calling a time out at the end of the game. He's tried to go Phil Jackson this entire season, and tried to let the players make something happen during end of game sitautions... I don't have any pure stats on this (Baseline bum, FWD, looking in your direction...) but this strategy has seemed to fail more than pay off.
And when you consider how we really need every win from here on out, and our supposed veteran players and coaching....it should be a given to call the TO and draw up a good shot.
All we needed was two points!

[peskypesky]

tony seems to struggle to find his place with the big three back. the first game was amazing with our three stars playing so efficiently.

but the last two games seemed to show tony have some difficulties to stay hot with the whole big three back. 8 shots attempts ? come on.....

it's because Tony is not a true PG. he's a scorer. he's not a distributor.

i often think that Manu should play PG and Tony SG. Manu is a better passer.

[ElNono]

Another huge mistake was Pop not calling a time out at the end of the game. He's tried to go Phil Jackson this entire season, and tried to let the players make something happen during end of game sitautions... I don't have any pure stats on this (Baseline bum, FWD, looking in your direction...) but this strategy has seemed to fail more than pay off.
And when you consider how we really need every win from here on out, and our supposed veteran players and coaching....it should be a given to call the TO and draw up a good shot.
All we needed was two points!

Well, I think up until about 3 weeks ago, we were incredibly good in close games. But I do agree that the way we've been paying lately, a timeout was the right choice.

[Yorae]

In the past years I rarely watch any regular season spurs games because to me, you ain't seeing the real spurs unless it's the playoffs. So now this season I decided to be really active in the regular season and the team I get to watch is an injury ridden spurs team. Now they got back all the pieces, they still can't get it together.....So is this the worst spurs team of the Duncan Era. I got a feeling that the Spurs are in unchartered territories right now....But I still and will always believe that you ain't seein Spurs unless it's the playoff and the Spurs will turn things around come playoff time. Now I'm off before my boss sees me. :bang

[nz_spur]

Perhaps pop is just testing whether his players can handle that pressure. No timeout and trailing by 1 in the final seconds. If they can react to that pressure then they'll be fine for the post-season...

... but they couldn't. :depressed

[peskypesky]

So is this the worst spurs team of the Duncan Era?

could very well be. but i think Pop bears a lot of the blame. that and injuries.

[timvp]

it's because Tony is not a true PG. he's a scorer. he's not a distributor.

i often think that Manu should play PG and Tony SG. Manu is a better passer.How can TP shooting only eight times be a sign that he's a scorer and not a distributor? That logic doesn't follow.

What you posted would make sense if Manu and TD weren't getting enough touches. Not the opposite.

[peskypesky]

How can TP shooting only eight times be a sign that he's a scorer and not a distributor? That logic doesn't follow.

What you posted would make sense if Manu and TD weren't getting enough touches. Not the opposite.

are you using inverse logic?

[timvp]

duncan was double-, and even triple-, teamed all night.
Those were mostly soft shows at Duncan. The Thunder usually waited until he dribbled or made a move before sending help. That's the type of coverage Duncan usually eats for lunch, especially when the initial defenders were average at best.

[kace]

it's because Tony is not a true PG. he's a scorer. he's not a distributor.

i often think that Manu should play PG and Tony SG. Manu is a better passer.

i'm really starting to hate guys like you or ducks who tries to turn every thread into a manu vs tony thing. unless it was a joke and i missed it.


anyway, it is possible that Pop told tony to do so few in order to let others getting back in shape for the PO (mainly manu and tim)? i would assume he wouldn't have played tony so much if it was the case.

but seeing finley taking twice the shots tony took, and more than manu and tim, isn't exactly what i expect from the spurs.

[timvp]

are you using inverse logic?That appears to be what you are doing.

"Parker is a scorer so that's why he only got eight shots when the Big Three are back full."

Does that make sense to you?

[crc21209]

I BELIEVE. We'll be fine. The Spurs lost tonight to the Thunder because it seemed like they took them too lightly out there. Both Green and Durant present big matchup problems for us. No one could guard either. Finley on Durant? Bonner on Green? Are you kidding me? It HAS to be CIA, I mean come on no Bowen? no Hill?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

"That it comes after DISASTER? that we were in New Orleans, but now we surpassed ourselves… That papelon! Complica the end of the season. We are going to see as we give return it."

- Google translation of Manu's latest posting on facebook

I had no idea where else to post this.

[sprrs]

I really don't see how Pop can justify the crap he puts out on the floor. It's painfully obvious he doesn't know what he's doing and it's getting embarrassing to watch. He's gone senile.

But can't say I didn't see this coming. Pop's been Finley's GF for several years now. Even with the signings of Mason and Hill in the offseason I knew Finley was still going to get his 30+ minutes a game.

[E20]

Bring out the brooms.

Spurs will rampage through the playoffs like the mongols did to the virgin women of a town. Spurs will most likely end up 3rd seed, but doesn't matter, they will beat every team they meet in the PO's. Spurs = 09 champs.

My predictions are always 100% true.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Bring out the brooms.

Spurs will rampage through the playoffs like the mongols did to the virgin women of a town. Spurs will most likely end up 3rd seed, but doesn't matter, they will beat every team they meet in the PO's. Spurs = 09 champs.

My predictions are always 100% true.

Sorry my young padawan. It's just not in the stars this year.

[timtonymanu]

I got to vent right now. The reason why we're messing up like this is Pop. The guy coaches like he doesn't give a shit where we end up this year. He is treating these games like they're not serious. We're frickin third in the West now. We need to have homecourt at least till the WCF because we're not getting it there and also in the finals.

Why is Bowen not playing?
Hill is no longer the back-up point and he is getting no playing time.
Mason is playing the back-up point and he's losing confidence.
I don't get it.
I hate to say it right now but we're not winning this year. It's just looks like such a shitty season and I don't know if it will be any better in the playoffs.

If the Spurs proves me wrong and I hope they do, then i will allow all of you to bash me.

[peskypesky]

That appears to be what you are doing.

"Parker is a scorer so that's why he only got eight shots when the Big Three are back full."

Does that make sense to you?

didn't he play PG tonight?

[MannyIsGod]

I don't understand the start for Manu. Thats completely an offensive move and the Spurs real problems are coming at the defensive end. Bowen needs to play, Hill needs to play, Gooden needs to sit, and Kurt Thomas should probably be a starter by this point. I don't have a problem with Finely playing but his minutes need to be seriously cut into by Bowen because you're not going to win with Finely playing big minutes. Its just not going to happen because he doesn't provide enough outside of occasional shooting.

[timvp]

This is like watching the Spurs in '01-'02 when Bowen was injured, except he's fucking right there suited up and ready to play. I've always thought the championship window would slam shut when Bruce isn't able to play anymore, and this team is doing nothing to convince me otherwise right now.That's a pretty damn good comparison. Either that stretch in 2002 when the Spurs were like 11-12 when Bowen was out ... or maybe early in the 1999-2000 season when the defensive stopper was Chucky Brown :shootme

I can't believe Pop just watched a guy who can't bench the bar curbstomp Finley repeatedly without even giving Bowen a chance. The amazing thing is that Udoka might be an even worse defender than Finley when out on the perimeter. Bowen ten years from now wouldn't like Durant score 15 straight possessions without putting up some sort of fight like Finley/Udoka did tonight.

If Pop is essentially going to send Bowen into retirement ... at the very least use George Hill to retain some level of defensive ability on the court. No Bowen and no Hill and this team turns into a punching bag.

[E20]

Sorry my young padawan. It's just not in the stars this year.

I will bump this. :hat

[MannyIsGod]

I don't understand because its like Pop has abandoned the principles HE brought to this team.

[Austin_Toros]

Initial reaction: what the HELL???

Again!!!

[Ghazi]

If the 2006 Miami Heat were able to win a championship, then so can the 2009 San Antonio Spurs (yes, that's the only positive thought I can muster).

This team has no identity. Well, maybe one: fucking chuckers. But they are no longer the dominant defensive team they once were. There is no rhyme or reason to their offense. Hell, when was the last time we saw such shitty execution at the end of games?

The effect injuries have had on team chemistry is evident, but the system isn't the same. Pop has gone soft: he's not rabid anymore, and the players are bored and not responding. How many embarassing losses do they need to experience before they wake up and play like they give a shit? The Spurs have the right players on the team. The problem lies in the fact that they are sitting on the bench or playing out of position. And then there's the defense. Cock.

No they didnt

[peskypesky]

i'm really starting to hate guys like you or ducks who tries to turn every thread into a manu vs tony thing. unless it was a joke and i missed it.


?

It's not a Manu vs Tony thing. It's a who is a better PG thing. I'm from the old school that believes a PG should be a great passer. Manu is a better passer in my opinion. I think he sees passes that Tony doesn't. Either that, or Tony sees the pass but doesn't feel confident to pull it off.

That's my opinion, based on watching the Spurs for years.

And the problem when your PG isn't a great passer? If the other team packs the paint and cuts off penetration by the PG, the offense stagnates.

Allen Iverson is another guy who plays a lot of PG when he's really not one.

That being said, at this point in time, I do think Tony is our most effective offensive weapon, slightly ahead of Tim. So I would be totally fine with Parker getting a ton of minutes and being the designated scorer.

[Fabbs]

-I really just can't fathom what Pop sees in Finley. Pop seriously is treating Finley as if Finley is a part of the Big Four. And now that Pop is setting his rotation, that has resulted in Finely becoming an even bigger part of the team. I apologize to any of Finley's family members who may be reading this but Finley is not good enough anymore to be a key part of a championship team. He's just not. Durant slaughtered him repeatedly. It got sickening to watch after a while. It was even more sickening that Pop never made much of a move to fix the situation. In Pop's eyes, Finley must be some sort of cross between Bruce Bowen and Michael Jordan. Otherwise, I just can't explain the love affair any longer.

.....(God forbid Pop ever actually create a mismatch instead of always being the one to react to a perceived matchup problem.)

-As you may have figured out by reading this far, I wasn't overly impressed with the way Pop coached tonight. In fact, I truly believe Pop is in the worst coaching stretch of his career. He has no clue what he's doing and he's hurting this team - both in the short-term and the long-term. Pop has been instrumental in these recent losses and he's laying the foundation for a disappointing playoff exit. I seriously can't figure out what he's doing or any of the method to his current madness.

Overplaying Finley alone is enough for this team not to win a championship. But compound that issue by giving Finley tons of responsibilities on a nightly basis and it's just flabbergasting. I don't even want to type about it any more because it's such a horrible coaching decision.
Timvp, Aggie Hoop Fan and I would you like to welcome you to the fold. I've been wondering when you would come to this conclusion. Does this mean can reopen the Pop-Finley civil union gifts thread? Just kidding.


I'm not going to say that believe is dead but this is exactly like watching a car heading 50 miles per hour straight towards a cliff with the driver asleep at the wheel. Either the driver will wake up in time to avert disaster or the ending won't be pretty.
Excellent analogy/illustration.

[timvp]

I don't understand the start for Manu. Thats completely an offensive move and the Spurs real problems are coming at the defensive end. Bowen needs to play, Hill needs to play, Gooden needs to sit, and Kurt Thomas should probably be a starter by this point. I don't have a problem with Finely playing but his minutes need to be seriously cut into by Bowen because you're not going to win with Finely playing big minutes. Its just not going to happen because he doesn't provide enough outside of occasional shooting.

Good points. The only reason I don't mind starting Manu is that it gives the Big Three more time together before the playoffs begin. They may need that extra time together to get their cohesiveness back in a hurry.

But yeah, Pop needs to go back to defense and use Bowen, Hill and Thomas as much as possible. Finley can't be the perimeter stopper and the combination of Bonner and Gooden can't have Duncan's back.

The Bowen situation is just amazing. When given time, he has looked close to his normal self. His shooting is good. In the past, he's been one of the Spurs who always seems to hit a few threes to break the team out of a shooting slump. Plus he's probably the most consistent shooter in team history in the playoffs. Even if he's lost a step defensively, it's not like he didn't have room to lose a little bit. He was freakin' first team All-Defense last season.

The one got damn time I would love for Pop to run a veteran into the ground to the point that it becomes painfully obvious that the veteran just doesn't have it anymore ... and Pop somehow doesn't give Bowen that chance. Instead, Pop is going to pull the cord on Bowen before we know whether Bowen is done or not. And yet, Pop has a history of letting others prove their failure on the court.

Just amazing.

[Indazone]

Spurs trying as hard as possible to give first place to the Rockets.

[peskypesky]

The Bowen situation is just amazing. When given time, he has looked close to his normal self. His shooting is good. In the past, he's been one of the Spurs who always seems to hit a few threes to break the team out of a shooting slump. Plus he's probably the most consistent shooter in team history in the playoffs. Even if he's lost a step defensively, it's not like he didn't have room to lose a little bit. He was freakin' first team All-Defense last season.

:toast

[crc21209]

Reasons I believe Pop is playing super possum right before the Playoffs:

1. NO BOWEN? Are you serious? With Fin left to dry out there while Durant lights him up? Just doesnt sound or look right...

2. Vaughn over Hill when Hill has been playing good all year whether at backup pg or even little defensive spurts.

3. Bonner >Thomas? Really? When Bonner wasnt doing so hot out there at all.

All these things lead me to believe Pop knows what he's doing and is really hiding his deck this time around...

[ElNono]

What's Vaughn doing out there also? Here's a guy that was DNP-CD up until a week ago. We're two weeks away from the playoffs, and NOW your resuscitate this corpse? :bang

[timvp]

Reasons I believe Pop is playing super possum right before the Playoffs:

1. NO BOWEN? Are you serious? With Fin left to dry out there while Durant lights him up? Just doesnt sound or look right...

2. Vaughn over Hill when Hill has been playing good all year whether at backup pg or even little defensive spurts.

3. Bonner >Thomas? Really? When Bonner wasnt doing so hot out there at all.

All these things lead me to believe Pop knows what he's doing and is really hiding his deck this time around...
:lol I wish that was the case but its not. You don't play possum with eight games to go in the regular season. Hill needs as much experience as possible to succeed in the playoffs. Bowen needs to actually play to get into good enough shape to be a defensive stopper.

This is not CIA Pop. This is WTF Pop.

[peskypesky]

What's Vaughn doing out there also? Here's a guy that was DNP-CD up until a week ago. We're two weeks away from the playoffs, and NOW your resuscitate this corpse? :bang

very good point. Vaughn was indeed DNP-CD for most of the season. so wtf, Pop?

[timaios]

No they didnt

:lol:lol:lol

[crc21209]

:lol I wish that was the case but its not. You don't play possum with eight games to go in the regular season. Hill needs as much experience as possible to succeed in the playoffs. Bowen needs to actually play to get into good enough shape to be a defensive stopper.

This is not CIA Pop. This is WTF Pop.

timvp you and your wife gotta track his ass down or talk to the local media people and convince him that he is being a dumbshit if all this is really real and not just CIA. :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

that's what is so fucked up though timvp..

JUST LAST YEAR..Bowen was an all-NBA defender..Pop even trusted him to guard the best POINT GUARD in the NBA in the Hornets series..less than a year later, and the guy can't even get off the bench? where's the logic? Bowen has shown MANY flashes of his great D this year..

it just doesn't make any sense at all..it's not an injury, because he played vs. the Rockets and dominated Artest recently..like you said, he loves veterans, so that can't be the reason..

I'm still believing he'll play in the playoffs, but only because it would go against all logic if he didn't..it just doesn't make any sense..

not only is Bowen still a great defender, but he brings veteran tricks, and RESPECT FROM THE REFS with him..he does something that nobody else on our team does..the worst part is that he's behind Ime fucking Udoka in the rotation..

so I just can't believe he won't play..it just doesn't make any sense to me..

[timvp]

The rotation should be pretty damn easy:

C Thomas - 30
PF Duncan - 36
SF Bowen - 30
SG Ginobili - 30
PG Parker - 38

PF Bonner - 30
SG Mason - 32
PG Hill - 16

If Pop wants to start the Big Three, then put two defenders in there because the Big Three should be able to carry the offensive load. Then bring shooting and energy off the bench.

If Pop went with that lineup, I'd be pretty damn confident in the Spurs right now.

[HarlemHeat37]

timvp..if you showed your rotation to Pop, he'd probably shoot you 5 times and spit in your face, for not including the name "Finley"..

[Joe Schmoogins]

The rotation should be pretty damn easy:

C Thomas - 30
PF Duncan - 36
SF Bowen - 30
SG Ginobili - 30
PG Parker - 38

PF Bonner - 30
SG Mason - 32
PG Hill - 16

If Pop wants to start the Big Three, then put two defenders in there because the Big Three should be able to carry the offensive load. Then bring shooting and energy off the bench.

If Pop went with that lineup, I'd be pretty damn confident in the Spurs right now.

I noticed you changed this lineup from the one you listed in the Rotations thread the other day. Have you already given up on Gooden?

[crc21209]

The rotation should be pretty damn easy:

C Thomas - 30
PF Duncan - 36
SF Bowen - 30
SG Ginobili - 30
PG Parker - 38

PF Bonner - 30
SG Mason - 32
PG Hill - 16

If Pop wants to start the Big Three, then put two defenders in there because the Big Three should be able to carry the offensive load. Then bring shooting and energy off the bench.

If Pop went with that lineup, I'd be pretty damn confident in the Spurs right now.


I totally agree. If Pop didnt wanna start Manu and bring him off the bench instead then start TP, Mason, Bowen, TD, and Thomas. But I think that Bowen should be starting in place of Fin and Thomas in place of Bonner if I had it my way. We can only hope right now...

[timvp]

that's what is so fucked up though timvp..

JUST LAST YEAR..Bowen was an all-NBA defender..Pop even trusted him to guard the best POINT GUARD in the NBA in the Hornets series..less than a year later, and the guy can't even get off the bench? where's the logic? Bowen has shown MANY flashes of his great D this year..

it just doesn't make any sense at all..it's not an injury, because he played vs. the Rockets and dominated Artest recently..like you said, he loves veterans, so that can't be the reason..

I'm still believing he'll play in the playoffs, but only because it would go against all logic if he didn't..it just doesn't make any sense..

not only is Bowen still a great defender, but he brings veteran tricks, and RESPECT FROM THE REFS with him..he does something that nobody else on our team does..the worst part is that he's behind Ime fucking Udoka in the rotation..

so I just can't believe he won't play..it just doesn't make any sense to me..
The only thing I can think of that can compare is the way Pop turned on Malik Rose. One day Pop loved Malik ... then seemingly overnight Pop closed the door on his Spurs career.

But in that case, at least it was contract related and Pop thought Malik was trying too hard to prove he was worth his contract. What could he see in Bowen that would cause him to totally give up on him? It's not like Udoka's such a great offensive player that he's worth putting on the court ahead of Bowen for the offensive gains.

I don't know. It's just bizarre.

[HarlemHeat37]

the sad thing is that our offense is virtually the same as last year, but our D is worse..so much for the reasoning behind benching Bowen being for "more offense"..

[timvp]

I noticed you changed this lineup from the one you listed in the Rotations thread the other day. Have you already given up on Gooden?I didn't really give up on Gooden but this team just doesn't have the slack to be trying to integrate new parts to it on top of trying to get cohesive. This is now more of a crisis mode rotation. Buckle down the hatches and try to win with what you know you got. Gooden just seems like a luxury the Spurs can't afford.

Maybe I'm wrong and the Spurs still have time to not only gel but also work Gooden in ....... but I honestly don't see it.

[tp2021]

San Antonio Spurs....2010 NBA Champs or bust

[crc21209]

I didn't really give up on Gooden but this team just doesn't have the slack to be trying to integrate new parts to it on top of trying to get cohesive. This is now more of a crisis mode rotation. Buckle down the hatches and try to win with what you know you got. Gooden just seems like a luxury the Spurs can't afford.

Maybe I'm wrong and the Spurs still have time to not only gel but also work Gooden in ....... but I honestly don't see it.

I guess we can go with Thomas and Bonner along with TD as the other bigs with Gooden and Oberto getting spot minutes?

[Yuixafun]

it's because Tony is not a true PG. he's a scorer. he's not a distributor.

i often think that Manu should play PG and Tony SG. Manu is a better passer.


Manu a better passer... he might make some dazzling ones, but I see too many stupid ones that are predictable and telegraphed, that are easily picked off.

And Tony.. tony tony tony... I think sometimes subconciously he turns in poor games to prove how valuable he is.

He needs to play with the mentality that Tim and Manu are both out all the time. I'm not sure, but there's something there with pride and recognition and it's manifesting itself in subtle ways.

[Joe Schmoogins]

I didn't really give up on Gooden but this team just doesn't have the slack to be trying to integrate new parts to it on top of trying to get cohesive. This is now more of a crisis mode rotation. Buckle down the hatches and try to win with what you know you got. Gooden just seems like a luxury the Spurs can't afford.

Maybe I'm wrong and the Spurs still have time to not only gel but also work Gooden in ....... but I honestly don't see it.


That sounds about right.

As far as Bowen is concerned... I just don't buy it that Pop has given up on him. It makes no sense. My overly optimistic side is hoping that Pop is giving him as much rest as possible to keep him extremely fresh for an extended playoff run. Pop ain't a fool, he knows what it takes to win, I really think this is the time of year when we just need to sit back and let him do his thing as frustrating as that is.

I honestly believe that both Hill and Bowen will be in the rotation come playoff time. Watching Vaughn out there tonight was a nice reminder of why they made it a priority to draft Hill... surely Pop took notice. Right?

[timtonymanu]

im reading through all these posts and I'm really scared for this team come playoff time. I really wanna see Kurt Thomas get that ring but it doesn't look like it cause Pop is so arrogant.

Hill has definitely been kicked out of the rotation when he kept this season competitive when Parker was out.
It looks like Mason is going back to the Mason he was in Washington. Thanks to Pop!
Bowen isnt getting any minutes and he's the best defender on our team.

Udoka and Finley are getting way overplayed. I think Pop has a crush on inconsistent shooters who's defense is poor. With the way Pop is coaching, I really don't see the Spurs winning this year and they even have a great roster. Pop just can't decide how to use it and it's sad really.

[SA210]

This is like watching the Spurs in '01-'02 when Bowen was injured, except he's fucking right there suited up and ready to play. I've always thought the championship window would slam shut when Bruce isn't able to play anymore, and this team is doing nothing to convince me otherwise right now.

This is so damn true, I swear. I have always thought exactly the same frickin' thing.

:depressed

Can someone PLEASE make Pop read this forum!! ??

[word]

After the loss against the Hornets, I thought the Spurs deserved a break. Tough place to play, Big Three just reunited and going up against a desperate team. Tonight? This loss against the Thunder has to be considered the worst regular season loss of the season.

The Thunder have some nice pieces for the future but there are plenty of reasons why they were 0-19 on the road against teams above .500 heading into the game. Oklahoma City had no business being in the contest against a Spurs team that should have been focused following the loss against the Hornets and the previous loss against this same Thunder squad the last time these two teams battled. Instead, the Spurs laid an egg. When the embarrassment of a performance finally ended, the Spurs had lost 96-95.

I'm extremely disappointed in how the Spurs played. They don't look anything close to a championship team right now. There are available excuses but there's no combination of excuses that will explain away this loss. It was a pathetic performance by a team that seems to have lost its way. Combine that with injury woes and it's difficult to imagine this team putting the pieces together in time to win a NBA championship.

-If you just look at Tim Duncan's line, one would assume he had a solid ballgame. But the truth doesn't match the numbers. The truth is that the Thunder sent a minimum amount of help his way. All they did was have a few players reach after Duncan put the ball on the ground. In fact, Oklahoma City got so brazen at one point that they put Jeff Green on him. The lack of respect for Duncan's skills paid off because Duncan wasn't able to dominate single coverage. Obviously his struggles are health related but the time for excuses is over. Either Duncan becomes Duncan again or else the season is over.

-Manu Ginobili is another player whose stats look better than his actual output. Defensively, he had a few moments here and there but it was mostly a bad performance on that end of the court. On offense, Ginobili scored well enough but he wasn't making his typical smart basketball plays. He made a number of iffy decisions, including about three bad decisions in the last ten seconds of the game. It's not that surprising to learn that Ginobili finished with the worst plus/minus on the team for the second straight game. The silver lining is that his health and conditioning seem to be trending in a positive direction.

-After carrying the Spurs for a while, Tony Parker acted like it was his turn to rest. He had absolutely no energy for much of this game and was disappointing on both ends of the court. In a key stretch in the fourth quarter, Parker's play resulted in three consecutive turnovers. Instead of gearing up for the playoffs, Parker played one of his worst games of the season. No one is going to care about a few good games in March if Parker sputters to the finish line.

-I really just can't fathom what Pop sees in Finley. Pop seriously is treating Finley as if Finley is a part of the Big Four. And now that Pop is setting his rotation, that has resulted in Finely becoming an even bigger part of the team. I apologize to any of Finley's family members who may be reading this but Finley is not good enough anymore to be a key part of a championship team. He's just not. Durant slaughtered him repeatedly. It got sickening to watch after a while. It was even more sickening that Pop never made much of a move to fix the situation. In Pop's eyes, Finley must be some sort of cross between Bruce Bowen and Michael Jordan. Otherwise, I just can't explain the love affair any longer.

-It's difficult to hate on Matt Bonner too much after the effort he gave. He was the one player who kept fighting to try to win the game. But the results just weren't there. Even though he crashed the boards repeatedly, he only totaled one rebound. His three-point stroke isn't nearly as automatic as it was before he got threatened by the signing of Drew Gooden. Bonner played hard, defended pretty well but he wasn't really helping the cause too much.

-The yanking of Roger Mason, Jr. continues. Pop seems obsessed with ruining the one swingman free agent who seemed to be able to handle the pressure and thrive in his first year in San Antonio. After hanging him out to dry as the backup point guard for the last handful of weeks, Mason is now coming off the bench. Why did Pop have to tinker with Mason's role? Mason went from cold blooded assassin to 2004 Hedo with a tan.

-Ime Udoka once again got minutes. Ime Udoka once again got toasted on the defensive end. Apparently, the coaching staff thinks Udoka is a good defender. They must not actually watch him play. When matched up with Durant, Udoka was literally more helpless than Finley. At least Finley has decent length. Slowpoke-a is just too molasses-like to be a defensive option against any opposing perimeter player who ventures out onto the perimeter and is blessed with even a modicum of speed.

-Jacque Vaughn. Nice guy. Future NBA head coach. Tireless worker. Third string point guard. Pop's latest incarnation of the 2008-09 San Antonio Spurs rotation seemingly has Vaughn as the backup point guard. That's not going to work. It's just not. There's no way this team makes noise in the playoffs if they have to rely on Vaughn for production. His athleticism and quickness have slipped to the point that he can't be trusted beyond spot minutes. If Vaughn is the backup point guard heading into the playoffs, it will just be a matter of time before Pop gives up on that experiment and goes another direction. Guaranteed.

-Drew Gooden's effort is commendable. He's not backing down from the challenge of integrating himself into Spurs Basketball. But after tonight's game, I'm really starting to doubt whether he's capable. He's just not a smart enough player at either end. Offensively, he's a ball-stopper who constantly wants the ball in his hands. Defensively, he really has no clue what he's doing unless the player he's defending has the ball. Even then, he's still a below average defender. I want to hold out hope that the light will finally turn on in Gooden's head but fans of other teams he was a part of eventually figured out that the waiting was futile.

-Kurt Thomas has been the second best player on the team since the All-Star break. His reward? Apparently Pop planned to pull him completely out of the rotation. Thomas didn't get into the game until the fourth quarter. He actually played pretty well when finally given an opportunity out on the court. Hopefully it was just a matchup issue that Pop saw and that's the reason he held out Thomas. (God forbid Pop ever actually create a mismatch instead of always being the one to react to a perceived matchup problem.)

-As you may have figured out by reading this far, I wasn't overly impressed with the way Pop coached tonight. In fact, I truly believe Pop is in the worst coaching stretch of his career. He has no clue what he's doing and he's hurting this team - both in the short-term and the long-term. Pop has been instrumental in these recent losses and he's laying the foundation for a disappointing playoff exit. I seriously can't figure out what he's doing or any of the method to his current madness.

Overplaying Finley alone is enough for this team not to win a championship. But compound that issue by giving Finley tons of responsibilities on a nightly basis and it's just flabbergasting. I don't even want to type about it any more because it's such a horrible coaching decision.

Add to the Finley fiasco the backup point guard position being in shambles, Mason playing his worst basketball of the season thanks to Pop, the bigman rotation not anywhere close to being set and the fact that the experimenting is continuing on a quarter to quarter basis and you have a recipe for disaster. And that's not even mentioning the biggest threat to the championship hopes - the health of Duncan and Ginobili and the amount of gas in Parker's tank.

I'm not going to say that believe is dead but this is exactly like watching a car heading 50 miles per hour straight towards a cliff with the driver asleep at the wheel. Either the driver will wake up in time to avert disaster or the ending won't be pretty.


I ...this is the stupidest shit ....since the last time I read your stupid takes which has been quite a while and I'm glad I read this one since it reminded me never to read these threads again.

Good lord. Go back and read that.....sober.

[Capt Bringdown]

Maybe I'm wrong and the Spurs still have time to not only gel but also work Gooden in ....... but I honestly don't see it.

I thought the Spurs did a good job of integrating Glenn Robinson, who didn't do much, but was able to at least make a contribution in the PO.

Nothing wrong with small contributions, case in point PJ Brown last year.

[Ice009]

I BELIEVE in the actual talent on this team..but I don't believe in the coach right now, and I never thought I would say that..

Bruce Bowen does not belong on the bench while Ime fucking Udoka is getting minutes..Finley shouldn't be playing more than 20 MPG..Kurt Thomas should be starting, but he isn't, and he's actually coming into the game in the 4th quarter instead..George Hill shouldn't be on the bench while Jacque "LOL" Vaughn is playing..

I believe in the talent on this team..but what the fuck?..

About one week ago I actually thought we are good enough to make a serious run. I've been saying it for months that Pop has stunk it up and almost everyone jumped on me for saying it.

Pop tried to make a change again, but as usual he fucked it up by benching Hill, almost benching Thomas and not playing Gooden much again.

FUCK THE OUTSIDE SHOT. When that is not going in how about getting Gooden set up inside and attacking inside.

I'm sure I remember reading in 2003 when we had a great road record that Pop used to tell the team when we play on the road to make sure you get more free throws than the home team. Right now I will take that at home, get more free throws at HOME. Attack the basket. Get Finely off the court and go inside.

I think that Tim, Tony and Manu need to get together and talk about what they think the rotation should be and then go tell Pop. Those three are the main three on the team and they should decide who they want to go out there with them that will give them the best chance to win.

I still think we are good enough, but I don't know about the coach right now.

[word]

:downspin:

[Ice009]

Look, the Spurs are getting open looks, that is not the problem. You can tell when you watch the games, the team has lost their way. No one knows when their number will be called, what their role will be or how to muster up energy.

It is a lack of coaching, a lack of focus and a lack of certainty and trust this team has had over the years. Missing good looks is not the cause of the losses, missing those looks is the effect of the other variables going into it.

How many times do I have to say this Pop is setting his players up to fail. He is not doing them any favors by screwing with the rotation every game. Focus is the key word. Pop's lazy ass approach to the regular season has sunk into his players and now it's really starting to affect us.

It's not over though. We will get it together. Pop has to start by putting the players in a position to succeed and have a solid rotation set. He has to choose defense or offense.

I'd start KT, Tim, Bruce, Mason, TP.

[Ice009]

This is like a bad dream. Pop has made Finley part of the Big Four. Bowen has been relegated to ball boy duties. Vaughn has replaced Hill in the rotation. RMJ has gone Hedo before the playoffs even begin. Gooden has made the bigman rotation even more jumbled. Duncan and Ginobili are about 70% health. Parker very well could have peaked too early. Pop is coaching like its preseason and there are eight games to go before the playoffs.

Unbelievable.

BBL.

You're stealing my Hedo line. I've been saying that for weeks. I don't think it's Pop's fault entirely on Mason's shooting. It's coming towards money time and I'd say teams are paying more attention to Mason and he is rushing his shots more than usual and bricking them.

That's the point a few weeks back where I said screw the offense we gotta get the defense back. Bowen, Hill those guys need more minutes. DEFENSE and Focus is the key along with Manu and Tim being closer to 100%.

[Ice009]

4 titles and a lot of memories. It was a damn good run...

but now it's over. This team (like last year's) just doesn't have cohesion, consistency, or killer instinct. All three things they had in spades during the title runs.

Unless they hit the jackpot again it's over for the foreseeable future, but it was great while it lasted.

Don't give up. We have a shot.

[Ice009]

Another huge mistake was Pop not calling a time out at the end of the game. He's tried to go Phil Jackson this entire season, and tried to let the players make something happen during end of game sitautions... I don't have any pure stats on this (Baseline bum, FWD, looking in your direction...) but this strategy has seemed to fail more than pay off.
And when you consider how we really need every win from here on out, and our supposed veteran players and coaching....it should be a given to call the TO and draw up a good shot.
All we needed was two points!

I agree with you. Pop has not been Pop this season. I think he's let Phil get into his head about and trying to do some Phil Jackson stuff like you mentioned.

Pop needs to be Pop. Starting now, he can turn it around.

[objective]

I'm surprised that people are just coming to the conclusion now that the Spurs aren't serious contenders/just-don't-have-it anymore.

The Spurs stopped being serious contenders when Tiago Splitter did them while RC and Lindsey hung out stateside as Tau's people were working on him 24-7. There was a slim hope for Ian Mahinmi surprising and blowing up but that turned out to be zero.

Anyone who didn't realize last spring that the Spurs were done for this season without catastrophic injuries to the Lakers was drunk on homerism or oblivious.

That being said, Pop is making things worse with his coaching. Sure, the Spurs weren't going to be contenders anyway, but the way Pop is coaching them is just shortening their playoffs, they'll be out sooner than they should have been with all the nonsense he's pulled with Hill, Bowen and Finley.

---------

Look on the brightside folks.

You won't have to wonder why Pop isn't playing Bowen next year because he's a lock to be traded or straight up cut to save the Spurs money with his partially guaranteed contract.

AND Michael Finley has a full guarantee for next year, so enjoy watching him every night.

[Ice009]

In the past years I rarely watch any regular season spurs games because to me, you ain't seeing the real spurs unless it's the playoffs. So now this season I decided to be really active in the regular season and the team I get to watch is an injury ridden spurs team. Now they got back all the pieces, they still can't get it together.....So is this the worst spurs team of the Duncan Era. I got a feeling that the Spurs are in unchartered territories right now....But I still and will always believe that you ain't seein Spurs unless it's the playoff and the Spurs will turn things around come playoff time. Now I'm off before my boss sees me. :bang

We still have another gear.

[Harry Callahan]

This is a joke to lose to a team that doesn't even know what its doing (AT HOME!). The lack of lineup continuity and trying to get players integrated so late in the season results in these late game breakdowns.

This bunch will be very lucky to win in the first round, something they have done ten out of the last eleven years.

When Tim Duncan is not Tim Duncan, everything else suffers. Ginobili has missed too much time and is back to square one conditioning wise. He needs more time to get back to where is was prior to the ASB.

It seems like the Spurs realize they don't have what it takes to go all the way, and they don't have their usual confidence as a result. Can they get it back? Doesn't look good.

To cough up what was a very good playoff position in the last two weeks is pretty pathetic. Five or six different times the team has not executed in the last minute of a game.

Coach Pop has managed to zap the confidence of the three key new rotation players this year by various means - Mason, Hill, and Bonner. Those guys need to play in a clear role to help everyone else out. Instead they are benched or playing with no confidence.

I hate to say it, but the Spurs officially became a playoff pretender tonight. These are not the Spurs of 2000 or 2001. These are the Spurs of 1992 and 1993 - not enough horses to win in April, May, or (especially) June.

Duncan needs to not play basketball for a period of months before he (maybe) can be himself again. That sad fact really makes the Spurs playoff fate very predictable. That stinks for us Spurs fans who are so accustomed to our guys making the clutch play at the end of games.

Little did I know when I went to the Spurs Mavie game in SA (a rare treat as I live in Dallas) on February 24 that I witnessed the beginning of the end of this season. Duncan's very significant knee problem reared its ugly head.

All the years of long playoff runs has caught up to too many key guys - they are not able to perform as well they have in the past because of injuries/age(Parker is the exception to this).

Sorry to be so glum, but I think most of us see the writing on the wall very clearly right now.

[Emeyin]

This is like a bad dream. Pop has made Finley part of the Big Four. Bowen has been relegated to ball boy duties. Vaughn has replaced Hill in the rotation. RMJ has gone Hedo before the playoffs even begin. Gooden has made the bigman rotation even more jumbled. Duncan and Ginobili are about 70% health. Parker very well could have peaked too early. Pop is coaching like its preseason and there are eight games to go before the playoffs.

Unbelievable.

BBL.


I agree with this, especially the way Pop is coaching right now. Taking Mason out of the starting lineup is just making things worse. Choosing Vaughn over Hill?? WTF!? :bang

[urunobili]

Top 3 loss of the year...

[JudynTX]

Sigh!

[Supergirl]

Seems like a lot of Finley hate considering Finley is the reason we almost won the game - and I'm not just talking about that almost-shot at the very end.

Pop has been head coach for a lot longer than I have, and has won 4 more championships than I have. I don't really understand what he was doing last night, either, but I trust he had a plan.

My theory is that he is continuing is long standing tradition of using the regular season as scrimmage games, tinkering with rotations and figuring out who will make the playoff roster. The frustration for me is that this may cost us the #2 seed, which I think is our best chance to win another championship, because we get LA after two tough rounds, or someone else knocks LA out for us. But Pop would say if we're not good enough to win from whatever playoff position we get, we're not good enough to win a championship. And he's right, really.

I also think that Duncan does this every year - he seems to not have the pep or the hustle in the regular season, and people question whether he's lost something. Then he turns it up in the playoffs and everyone is wowed again.

Udoka is a better, taller defender than he gets credit for being, and his offense has been picking up. That's why he gets minutes.

Manu, Tony, and Tim appear to be healthy. That's all that matters. We'll see more of Gooden, Thomas, Mason, Finley, and Bowen in the playoffs. We may not see any of the others.

[benefactor]

Pop has been head coach for a lot longer than I have, and has won 4 more championships than I have. I don't really understand what he was doing last night, either, but I trust he had a plan.
Eh...sorry. I used to buy this but not anymore. Over the last 15 games Finley is averaging over 31 MPG. Obviously this is the plan...and anyone who thinks that is anything less than suicide in the playoffs is in denial.

[romsho]

The rotation should be pretty damn easy:

C Thomas - 30
PF Duncan - 36
SF Bowen - 30
SG Ginobili - 30
PG Parker - 38

PF Bonner - 30
SG Mason - 32
PG Hill - 16

If Pop wants to start the Big Three, then put two defenders in there because the Big Three should be able to carry the offensive load. Then bring shooting and energy off the bench.

If Pop went with that lineup, I'd be pretty damn confident in the Spurs right now.

Ummm...yes? When is the soonest we can start? There can even be slight tweaks and moments of Gooden and Oberto mixed in with the bigs depending on matchups, but this works. Of course, it has no chance in hell of becoming reality, what with the ommitted name of one Michael Finley. Sad.

[Indazone]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bHSVCs9rX0A/SLTfhCl5TMI/AAAAAAAADjQ/Mkqy_nE7d2Q/s400/zachary_smith.jpg

OH THE SHAME THE SHAME OF IT ALL!

THE THUNDER?????

[Keepin' it real]

What's getting more and more evident is that everyone figured out that if they pack the lane, Tony is not going to drive, and we're going to live and die by the trey.

There is truth to that statement, which is why you, I and others still have reservations about Parker. I mean, he's a good player, and he had an awesome 2007 Finals, making layup after layup.

But if he can be neutralized so easily by just clogging the lane, and if he can't find other ways to contribute, then in spite of the Finals MVP, and in spite of carrying the Spurs through this regular season, he's the same Tony from the 2004 Western semis:

Open lane:
Game 1: shot 8 for 19, 9 assists, 1 turnover
Game 2: shot 13 for 23, 5 assists, 1 turnover

Defense adjusted, clogged the lane:

Game 3: shot 4 for 12, 5 assists, 3 turnovers
Game 4: shot 7 for 18, 8 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 5: shot 7 for 23, 6 assists, 3 turnovers
Game 6: shot 4 for 18, 3 assists, 6 turnovers

In other words, we'll lose.

But unfortunately, Parker is far from being the main concern for the Spurs this season.:depressed

[Indazone]

If opposing defenses clog the lane, there are still ways to score and usually that doesn't just mean throwing up trey's. That means passing the ball and freeing up the weakside. Run the ball to Duncan and then pass the ball out high or hit the guy cutting to the basket.

[kace]

There is truth to that statement, which is why you, I and others still have reservations about Parker. I mean, he's a good player, and he had an awesome 2007 Finals, making layup after layup.

But if he can be neutralized so easily by just clogging the lane, and if he can't find other ways to contribute, then in spite of the Finals MVP, and in spite of carrying the Spurs through this regular season, he's the same Tony from the 2004 Western semis:

Open lane:
Game 1: shot 8 for 19, 9 assists, 1 turnover
Game 2: shot 13 for 23, 5 assists, 1 turnover

Defense adjusted, clogged the lane:

Game 3: shot 4 for 12, 5 assists, 3 turnovers
Game 4: shot 7 for 18, 8 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 5: shot 7 for 23, 6 assists, 3 turnovers
Game 6: shot 4 for 18, 3 assists, 6 turnovers

In other words, we'll lose.

But unfortunately, Parker is far from being the main concern for the Spurs this season.:depressed

if that happens, i think that should be a good thing for the spurs. our gameplan is either to make tony and manu attack the rim, or if the lane is clogged, it should open things for our perimeter shooters.

if our shooters then struggle, we're in real bad position then. but i don't think it's a fail for tony, or manu, if the whole defense focuse of his penetration. it's up to our shooters to make them pay.

[kace]

If opposing defenses clog the lane, there are still ways to score and usually that doesn't just mean throwing up trey's. That means passing the ball and freeing up the weakside. Run the ball to Duncan and then pass the ball out high or hit the guy cutting to the basket.

good points, too.

that's true that if the lane is well closed and our shooters are cold, which could happen, we seem desperately unefficient on offense. tim at the post could be a solution.
but our ball movement don't seem good enough to save us.

but outside tony and manu, there's a lot of players that could not even put the ball to the ground. too bad ball handling skills.

[SpuronyourFace]

that game was horrible.

[G-Nob]

My only thought process on the Finley situation is that Pop is waiting for Manu's legs to come back to reduce finley's minutes. You'd hope that he'd insert bowen and RMJ into the starting lineup and bring manu of the bench starting with Game 1.

The only thing Pop should be tinkering with at this point is his big man situation. Thomas should start and Gooden/Bonner should be spelling the PF/C positions.

[Borosai]

No they didnt

My bad.

[DarrinS]

Did Pop even want to win this game?


B.Bowen -- DNP - Coach's Decision
G.Hill -- DNP - Coach's Decision


EDIT> By the way, great points in the OP.

[Dex]

The Thunder made a lot of careless mistakes last night. Throwing passes too far ahead and out of bounds, missing some chip shots, etc...and we still lost.

These are mistakes that teams like the Lakers or Hornets aren't going to make in abundance. We need to play near perfect to beat these playoff teams, and these Spurs are nowhere near clicking on all cylinders at this point.

[PDXSpursFan]

I'm happy with Manu as a starter instead of Mason. But Mason should only play backup SG (not PG) . Hill should be our backup PG. PERIOD. KT and Bowen should start instead of Bonner and Finley - with Manu in the starting lienup we already have enough offensive power.

[Borosai]

I agree with the top 8.

Depth Chart:
Parker - Hill
Ginobili - Mason
Bowen
Duncan
Thomas - Bonner

I would feel confident enough with that core group + Spurs defense. If they need more bodies, play by need/matchups/performance that night. Not blackmail.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Realistically, there simply is not enough time to turn us into a well oiled playoff machine. It's just the cold hard truth. If we somehow managed to steamroll rounds 1 and 2, that in itself would be a moral victory of Aggie proportions, because no contender plays CIA and fucks around with players heads and team lineups so close to the playoffs like Pop is.


The Gooden thing was a stretch to begin with, the chemistry he shows with Manu looks promising, and would be something to actively care about if it were game 20-30, not game 74.

Pop not using Kurt Thomas was one of the weirdest things in Pop history. Only plausible explanation was that he was feeling a little hurt, and Pop wanted to save him. But he looked fine to me when he played in the 4th.

Pop--What are you doing man? We have been guessing and second guessing what the hell he's up to for weeks, and noone is close to giving a plausible explanation for Pop's overall strategy. The 2003, 05, and 07 spurs would have beat the dogshit out of OKC last night, and Bowen would have been denying Durant the ball after his 4th bucket, tops.

[crc21209]

A lineup of TP, Mason or Manu, Bowen, TD, and Thomas is a good mix of both O and D. Off the bench bring in Fin, Bonner, Hill, Mason or Manu (depending on who starts), and Gooden. No more Udoka or Vaughn please. And Oberto I think still has something left, maybe spot mins or something...I mean he was the starting center for the 07' title team.

[1Parker1]

I think a big part of the reason why Pop has decided to let Bowen fall out of the rotation is that as much as his defense is better than Finley's or Udoka's, opposing teams basically have ZERO respect for his offensive game. They'll live with him taking those corner 3's...they'd rather have that, then one of the Big 3 taking a shot. Basically, when Bowen is in the game it's a 4 on 5 matchup for the opposing team.

Even when Udoka or Finley are missing their shots, at least the opposing team's respect their offensive game enough to defend them. I'm not saying I agree with the NOT playing Bowen part, but perhaps this is Pop's line of thinking....

[crc21209]

I think a big part of the reason why Pop has decided to let Bowen fall out of the rotation is that as much as his defense is better than Finley's or Udoka's, opposing teams basically have ZERO respect for his offensive game. They'll live with him taking those corner 3's...they'd rather have that, then one of the Big 3 taking a shot. Basically, when Bowen is in the game it's a 4 on 5 matchup for the opposing team.

Even when Udoka or Finley are missing their shots, at least the opposing team's respect their offensive game enough to defend them. I'm not saying I agree with the NOT playing Bowen part, but perhaps this is Pop's line of thinking....


Bruce knows the system well though, so even if he is an offensive liability, he knows the offense. He knows where people are supposed to be at times, and can swing the ball to the right person, make the open shot, etc. At least Bruce has a history of making his open 3's rather than Udoka bricking about 5 in a row the other night in New Orleans.

[bdictjames]

Too many lineup changes - Duncan not being the center of the offense anymore, I think makes the Spurs doubt that they're playing Spurs basketball, the one we've had for 11 years.

I think we should go back to 4 down again.

[bdictjames]

I think a big part of the reason why Pop has decided to let Bowen fall out of the rotation is that as much as his defense is better than Finley's or Udoka's, opposing teams basically have ZERO respect for his offensive game. They'll live with him taking those corner 3's...they'd rather have that, then one of the Big 3 taking a shot. Basically, when Bowen is in the game it's a 4 on 5 matchup for the opposing team.

Even when Udoka or Finley are missing their shots, at least the opposing team's respect their offensive game enough to defend them. I'm not saying I agree with the NOT playing Bowen part, but perhaps this is Pop's line of thinking....
Bowen is getting old. Vaughn is getting old. Pop knows this, and he's either conserving minutes or giving minutes for the future.

[Spuritguy]

Anyone on this thread who would rather have Mason on the starting lineup over Manu has been sipping too much wine, like Pop. That would be equivalent to saying, I would rather have George Hill starting than TP. Please get real!! And speaking of TP, I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said Manu, with his smarts, team basketball approach and his passing ability would make a much better point guard than TP. SO, I believe that for the rest of this season the Spurs should start Manu as PG and Tony as the shooting guard and let them run rampant. I think that combination would also allow them to play together better because Manu loves to pass and Parker loves to recieve, more than he likes to give(the ball that is).
What do you think Spurs nation?

[Brazil]

Well ... I've backed off from the PG position. I admit that Tony is better than the Laker PG's, but not by much.

And a healthy Tim is still better than any ONE of the Laker bigs.

But, other than that, I would take ANY Laker for any Spur, of a similar size, position, or "role."

you're the ST most annoying poster by far

[Spursmania]

Good points. The only reason I don't mind starting Manu is that it gives the Big Three more time together before the playoffs begin. They may need that extra time together to get their cohesiveness back in a hurry.

But yeah, Pop needs to go back to defense and use Bowen, Hill and Thomas as much as possible. Finley can't be the perimeter stopper and the combination of Bonner and Gooden can't have Duncan's back.

The Bowen situation is just amazing. When given time, he has looked close to his normal self. His shooting is good. In the past, he's been one of the Spurs who always seems to hit a few threes to break the team out of a shooting slump. Plus he's probably the most consistent shooter in team history in the playoffs. Even if he's lost a step defensively, it's not like he didn't have room to lose a little bit. He was freakin' first team All-Defense last season.

The one got damn time I would love for Pop to run a veteran into the ground to the point that it becomes painfully obvious that the veteran just doesn't have it anymore ... and Pop somehow doesn't give Bowen that chance. Instead, Pop is going to pull the cord on Bowen before we know whether Bowen is done or not. And yet, Pop has a history of letting others prove their failure on the court.

Just amazing.

Right, Pop hasn't even given Bowen the chance to fuck up. He's never on the court anymore. It's a disgrace and a complete lack of coaching sensibility to sit Bowen(an NBA all defensive player that has gone to war and won the wars with the big 3) for entire games when, in fact, defense is exactly what we have needed down the stretch.:ihit


How many times do I have to say this Pop is setting his players up to fail. He is not doing them any favors by screwing with the rotation every game. Focus is the key word. Pop's lazy ass approach to the regular season has sunk into his players and now it's really starting to affect us.

It's not over though. We will get it together. Pop has to start by putting the players in a position to succeed and have a solid rotation set. He has to choose defense or offense.

I'd start KT, Tim, Bruce, Mason, TP.

Yep, it's been an epic failure watching these rancid rotations Pop is putting on the court. It might have been acceptable when Gooden was new and Manu was out, but now, what is the excuse Pop? The starting line-up should be a no brainer. Pop is wigging out and creating uncertain roles for the players. Now is the time to focus on their roles and honing that down.
:(

Bruce knows the system well though, so even if he is an offensive liability, he knows the offense. He knows where people are supposed to be at times, and can swing the ball to the right person, make the open shot, etc. At least Bruce has a history of making his open 3's rather than Udoka bricking about 5 in a row the other night in New Orleans.

Fucking Pop:bang

[Josepatches_]

Too many lineup changes - Duncan not being the center of the offense anymore, I think makes the Spurs doubt that they're playing Spurs basketball, the one we've had for 11 years.

I think we should go back to 4 down again.

That's a big problem.Now TD isn't at 100% but if he begins to feel really better he must be the center of the offense again.

All begins with TD.I'm tired of the fucking pick & rolls to end with 3's.More post game and Tim moving the ball from there.

[timvp]

I think a big part of the reason why Pop has decided to let Bowen fall out of the rotation is that as much as his defense is better than Finley's or Udoka's, opposing teams basically have ZERO respect for his offensive game. They'll live with him taking those corner 3's...they'd rather have that, then one of the Big 3 taking a shot. Basically, when Bowen is in the game it's a 4 on 5 matchup for the opposing team.

Even when Udoka or Finley are missing their shots, at least the opposing team's respect their offensive game enough to defend them. I'm not saying I agree with the NOT playing Bowen part, but perhaps this is Pop's line of thinking....
That very well could be what Pop is thinking ........ but it doesn't make much sense. Bowen is shooting the three-pointer better than he has at any point in his career other than when he led the league during the 2002-03 season. If teams want to leave him open, I'll take as many open Bowen three-pointers as they are will to give. No team has beat the Spurs in the playoffs with the strategy of leaving Bowen open.

And really, teams haven't been showing him any less respect than usual. They're playing the same defense on him as usual. But it does appear as if Pop thinks the team needs more offense than what Bowen can give ... even though Finley's offensive game is basically like Bowen's except he can shoot from more spots on the court and Udoka's offensive game usually is a liability more than an asset.

If Bowen's age caused him to lose his shooting stroke, then I could see Pop's strategy. Or if Bowen was getting eaten alive on defense like Finley or Udoka last night. But Bowen is still the best perimeter defender on the team by far and he's probably the best wide open three-point shooter at this point.

It's just a disgrace that Pop isn't going to let Bowen prove his worth on the court. Instead, he's going to sit him behind two scrubs and then release him in the offseason to save money.

[1Parker1]

That very well could be what Pop is thinking ........ but it doesn't make much sense. Bowen is shooting the three-pointer better than he has at any point in his career other than when he led the league during the 2002-03 season.

Wait, are you saying that Bowen is shooting the three pointer better this season than any other time in his career? Because that could be a little misleading given that he hasn't really played many games and that stat may appear slightly skewed given the small sample.

And honestly, from what I can remember from early on in the season when Bowen was still getting some good playing time, he wasn't exactly shooting lights out.

Also, I'm not sure where you think Finley's offensive game is more like Bowen's except he can shoot in more spots...I mean you kind of just contradicted yourself. You're right in that Finley and Bowen basically can't create their own shots, but I mean, that can be said for any player on the Spurs except for the Big 3. Bowen can shoot the corner 3 and that's about it. Finley can hit the 3 from anywhere on the court, he can hit a mid range shot, and from time to time, he can even run the floor and make a basket in transition (at least better than Bowen). Again, even when Finley's shot isn't falling, teams rarely want to leave him open.

I remember last season against the Lakers...defense wasn't the problem. The Spurs couldn't make shots to save their lives and was a big part of why that series ended in 5 (other than the Ginobili factor). And while Bowen did a commendable job on Kobe...at least better than Finley or Udoka could have, what I remember is Kobe basically having to play ZERO defense on the other end of the court, Spurs playing 4 on 5 as I mentioned before. Kobe or whoever was guarding Bowen at the other end of the court, basically left him alone and would go help out on a Parker drive or hard double team on Duncan, etc.

Anyways, while I definitely don't agree with not playing Bowen at all, I can sort of see where Pop is going with this. I just think he needs to replace Udoka's minutes with Bowen's and all would be a lot better.

[timvp]

Wait, are you saying that Bowen is shooting the three pointer better this season than any other time in his career? Because that could be a little misleading given that he hasn't really played many games and that stat may appear slightly skewed given the small sample. Three-point percentage is three-point percentage. If Pop wants a larger sample size, then play Bowen more. He's shooting 42.9% on threes this year.


And honestly, from what I can remember from early on in the season when Bowen was still getting some good playing time, he wasn't exactly shooting lights out. Actually, he was shooting lights out. 44.7% from the field, 43.5% on three-pointers prior to the All-Star break. 95% of shooters in the league would love those percentages.


Also, I'm not sure where you think Finley's offensive game is more like Bowen's except he can shoot in more spots...I mean you kind of just contradicted yourself.How is that a contradiction? Bowen is a spot up shooter from the corner. Finley is a spot up shooter from the corners and the arc. Those two extra spots on the court aren't worth putting a player out there as your lead defender even though said player is the worst perimeter defender on your team.


Again, even when Finley's shot isn't falling, teams rarely want to leave him open. I've never seen a team too scared of Finley. Last night was a good example. The Thunder left him so open that he led the team in field goal attempts.

Everyone knows Finley is a streaking shooter. In two or three games out of ten, he'll be on fire. The rest of the time other teams can ignore him.


I remember last season against the Lakers...defense wasn't the problem. The Spurs couldn't make shots to save their lives and was a big part of why that series ended in 5 (other than the Ginobili factor). And while Bowen did a commendable job on Kobe...at least better than Finley or Udoka could have, what I remember is Kobe basically having to play ZERO defense on the other end of the court, Spurs playing 4 on 5 as I mentioned before. Kobe or whoever was guarding Bowen at the other end of the court, basically left him alone and would go help out on a Parker drive or hard double team on Duncan, etc. The thing is though that the same strategy was employed against Bowen in 2003, 2005 and 2007. It's not like just last year teams were leaving Bowen. In fact, the Suns made it a priority to face guard him the entire series. The Lakers left Bowen wide open in 2003 and the Spurs still beat them.

And as long as we are mentioning the Lakers series, it should be noted that the Spurs actually outscored the Lakers in that series in the minutes Finley wasn't on the court. Think how amazing that is. The Spurs lost in five games yet take away Finley's pitiful performance and they were actually winning that series.

If Pop were benching Bowen for a player who could potentially be a difference maker or a young player who could grow into a larger role down the line, then I could understand. But for Finley and Udoka? Two proven chokers who were HORRIBLE against the Lakers last year. That's just crazy.

[Spurs Brazil]

Great read timvp

I don't know what is worst, Bruce getting 2 straight DNP-CD or Thomas going to the game only in the 4th quarter.

Like I wrote yesterday this is the worst Pop is coaching since he became a coach

[angel_luv]

I will not accept any excuses for the Spurs losing to the Thunder last night.
Badly done Spurs- though I am not going to hold it against you guys past this post.

[Mavs<Spurs]

The rotation should be pretty damn easy:

C Thomas - 30
PF Duncan - 36
SF Bowen - 30
SG Ginobili - 30
PG Parker - 38

PF Bonner - 30
SG Mason - 32
PG Hill - 16

If Pop wants to start the Big Three, then put two defenders in there because the Big Three should be able to carry the offensive load. Then bring shooting and energy off the bench.

If Pop went with that lineup, I'd be pretty damn confident in the Spurs right now.

Like that lineup/rotation.

Thanks for the honest initial reaction, Timvp.

:flag:

Go Spurs !

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Timvp...awesome job summing up everything that irritated me about the game last night. Too much Finley, too much Udoka, too much Vaughn and too little Mason, Hill, Bowen and Thomas. In some of the games lately I figured Pop was coaching in a way that he didn't want to show his hand to future playoff opponents, but against OKC there was no excuse for what we all had to witness.

I'm disappointed in everything from last night except your recap.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The rotation should be pretty damn easy:

C Thomas - 30
PF Duncan - 36
SF Bowen - 30
SG Ginobili - 30
PG Parker - 38

PF Bonner - 30
SG Mason - 32
PG Hill - 16

If Pop wants to start the Big Three, then put two defenders in there because the Big Three should be able to carry the offensive load. Then bring shooting and energy off the bench.

If Pop went with that lineup, I'd be pretty damn confident in the Spurs right now.

Please email this to Pop. :tu

[Mavs<Spurs]

I want to point out the obvious:

We all still support the Spurs and really want them to win !

If we didn't care about the Spurs or want them to win, we wouldn't give our honest and frank analysis of the situation. This is what many of us see. We can't talk about the Spurs honestly and and not address what many of us see as the cause of their bad recent play and what that bodes for the future.
If we are to have a real conversation, then these are the things that need to be said. It's about keeping it real.

None of this conversation means that we don't still totally support the Spurs or want them to win. In fact, it means just the opposite. We still totally do support the Spurs and want them to win.

I agree with Timvp and the many others who want to see:

More Bruce, less Finely,
Keep Mason as shooting guard and don't ruin his confidence
More Thomas as the second big
Hill needs to play back up point guard and get virtually all of those minutes.
JV needs to play less.

I think that Pop hurt Mason and Hill the most by playing them out of position (in Mason's case) and not playing Hill much if at all as back up point guard.

The team lacks chemistry, cohesion, an identity, doesn't know what they are doing on either end of the floor.

The pieces are here, if healthy enough, to win, but the management of the pieces seems poor.

And I say that because until we are honest about the problems, we can't fix them and improve.

And I want the Spurs to improve and win, especially in the Playoffs !

Go Spurs !

:flag:

[iamdmann]

I want to point out the obvious:

None of this conversation means that we don't still totally support the Spurs or want them to win. In fact, it means just the opposite. We still totally do support the Spurs and want them to win.

:flag:

that's the thing. i see this all the time on the EN comments, any time somebody questions anything about the team or pop the nuts start flipping out that everybody hates the team. that's fine, commenters can do whatever, but the thing that gets to me is that the EN writers are too scared to question things. First they were afraid that Pop would make fun of them. Now that Pop really doesn't have room to call questions about what he's doing stupid, the writers seem afraid to question things because of the negative feedback from the commenters. Pop has been hugely successful in the past, but this season isn't made up of the past. Where is the San Antonio media on this?

[Mavs<Spurs]

that's the thing. i see this all the time on the EN comments, any time somebody questions anything about the team or pop the nuts start flipping out that everybody hates the team. that's fine, commenters can do whatever, but the thing that gets to me is that the EN writers are too scared to question things. First they were afraid that Pop would make fun of them. Now that Pop really doesn't have room to call questions about what he's doing stupid, the writers seem afraid to question things because of the negative feedback from the commenters. Pop has been hugely successful in the past, but this season isn't made up of the past. Where is the San Antonio media on this?

Great point. If the EN writers were asking about this or calling him on this #$#$ then he would be confronted by reality and have to justify it or at least be aware of the view of those watching the team. And we would hopefully at least get some idea of what he is thinking.


:flag:

Go Spurs !

[spurtilldeath]

I want to point out the obvious:

We all still support the Spurs and really want them to win !

If we didn't care about the Spurs or want them to win, we wouldn't give our honest and frank analysis of the situation. This is what many of us see. We can't talk about the Spurs honestly and and not address what many of us see as the cause of their bad recent play and what that bodes for the future.
If we are to have a real conversation, then these are the things that need to be said. It's about keeping it real.

None of this conversation means that we don't still totally support the Spurs or want them to win. In fact, it means just the opposite. We still totally do support the Spurs and want them to win.

I agree with Timvp and the many others who want to see:

More Bruce, less Finely,
Keep Mason as shooting guard and don't ruin his confidence
More Thomas as the second big
Hill needs to play back up point guard and get virtually all of those minutes.
JV needs to play less.

I think that Pop hurt Mason and Hill the most by playing them out of position (in Mason's case) and not playing Hill much if at all as back up point guard.

The team lacks chemistry, cohesion, an identity, doesn't know what they are doing on either end of the floor.

The pieces are here, if healthy enough, to win, but the management of the pieces seems poor.

And I say that because until we are honest about the problems, we can't fix them and improve.

And I want the Spurs to improve and win, especially in the Playoffs !

Go Spurs !

:flag:

I think it is a fair assessment. If only, Pop reads ST, he would know what fans think about the spurs...

The most prominent thing that bothers me is that, we lack identity. We are no longer a great defensive team(yes we are good, but not as great as previous years). And our offense lives and dies by the 3's. Taking 25 to 30 3 pointers is way too many. Offense has to be run through the big three. I think it is been a while since we scored 100+ points against playoff teams. That is simply disappointing. This in spite of pop putting more shooters and
not playing enough of Bowen, Hill and Thomas.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I think it is a fair assessment. If only, Pop reads ST, he would know what fans think about the spurs...

The most prominent thing that bothers me is that, we lack identity. We are no longer a great defensive team(yes we are good, but not as great as previous years). And our offense lives and dies by the 3's. Taking 25 to 30 3 pointers is way too many. Offense has to be run through the big three. I think it is been a while since we scored 100+ points against playoff teams. That is simply disappointing. This in spite of pop putting more shooters and
not playing enough of Bowen, Hill and Thomas.

Yes, way too many 3 point shots and not enough of them are good 3 point shots. Not all 3 point shots are created equal.

A 3 point shot after a team has doubled off of a shooter onto Timmy is a good 3 pointer if it is open. A 3 point shot if Tony or Manu has just penetrated the lane and caused the defense to collapse leaving an open 3 point shot is a good 3 point shot. And occasionally wide open transition 3 point shots can be good shots.

But too many of our 3 point shots are not good 3s. And even good 3 point shots can be taken too frequently. We should not be shooting 25 3 point shots a night.

:flag:

Go Spurs !

[Budkin]

No denying folks... this team is not ready for the playoffs.

[Borosai]

Hookers and blow can fix anything.

[timvp]

:lol @ Borosai's sig.

[EVAY]

TIMVP

You have always been a thoughtful, methodical and balanced analyst of the spurs' team members and contributions. You have not changed. You are 1,000% right. Thank you for being willing to take the time and effort to say what needs to be said.

[EVAY]

that's the thing. i see this all the time on the EN comments, any time somebody questions anything about the team or pop the nuts start flipping out that everybody hates the team. that's fine, commenters can do whatever, but the thing that gets to me is that the EN writers are too scared to question things. First they were afraid that Pop would make fun of them. Now that Pop really doesn't have room to call questions about what he's doing stupid, the writers seem afraid to question things because of the negative feedback from the commenters. Pop has been hugely successful in the past, but this season isn't made up of the past. Where is the San Antonio media on this?

As my roomie said this morning over breakfast "With the amount of layoffs going on at the Express-News right now, you don't seriously expect any of the sports writers to take on the strength of the Spurs organization right now, do you? (Especially since the Express-News is a major sponsor of the team).

[de Soto]

The Spurs sucked. After all it was OKC they lost to.:(

[Manufan909]

I BELIEVE in the actual talent on this team..but I don't believe in the coach right now, and I never thought I would say that..

Bruce Bowen does not belong on the bench while Ime fucking Udoka is getting minutes..Finley shouldn't be playing more than 20 MPG..Kurt Thomas should be starting, but he isn't, and he's actually coming into the game in the 4th quarter instead..George Hill shouldn't be on the bench while Jacque "LOL" Vaughn is playing..

I believe in the talent on this team..but what the fuck?..

I hope Hill, KT, and Bowen can become obvious parts of the rotation by the last 5 or so games, or I won't have any faith in this team. If the rotation in the first round mimics this past week, I'll have no faith at all.

I hope for the love of all that is Spurs that Fin retires after this season is over. I don't see why he would, since Pop will make room no matter what. How a starting lineup of TP, Mason, Bowen, Tim, and Bonner isn't obvious, I have no idea.

Since this has turned into somewhat of a rotation thread, this is mine:

TP/Hill
Mason/Manu
Bowen/Finley
Tim/Gooden
Bonner/KT

If the Spurs ever face LA, and Bowen does not start, I'm going to go fucking insane.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I hope Hill, KT, and Bowen can become obvious parts of the rotation by the last 5 or so games, or I won't have any faith in this team. If the rotation in the first round mimics this past week, I'll have no faith at all.

I hope for the love of all that is Spurs that Fin retires after this season is over. I don't see why he would, since Pop will make room no matter what. How a starting lineup of TP, Mason, Bowen, Tim, and Bonner isn't obvious, I have no idea.

Since this has turned into somewhat of a rotation thread, this is mine:

TP/Hill
Mason/Manu
Bowen/Finley
Tim/Gooden
Bonner/KT

If the Spurs ever face LA, and Bowen does not start, I'm going to go fucking insane.

I agree with your posts, including about playing Finely instead of Bowen, especially against LA where Bruce can try to make things as difficult as possible for Kobe.


Good points.

:flag:

Go Spurs !

Go Spurstalk !

[EricB]

As my roomie said this morning over breakfast "With the amount of layoffs going on at the Express-News right now, you don't seriously expect any of the sports writers to take on the strength of the Spurs organization right now, do you? (Especially since the Express-News is a major sponsor of the team).


Tell your roomie to take off his tin foil hat as well.

[Thomas82]

duncan said there are no excuses in his post game interview. He took the blame for not calling a time out, and he included himself when asked about pop saying a "couple of people need to play better."

if duncan can rise i know he will.

I'm cautiously optomistic that he can.

+1

[Yogurt210]

Pop needs to coach better

[quentin_compson]

Not that I've been able to follow a lot of Spurs games this season, but this loss has been the worst while the victory in Boston was the most impressive.
Right now, we look closer to the Kings than we do to the Lakers. Being from Germany, I guess I miss a lot of local stuff and I hope Pop knows what he's doing but it doesn't look pretty at the moment.
I can't think of one thing Ime does better than Bruce - yet Udoka is playing and Bowen is not.
I can't think of one thing Vaughn (not that he is that bad, he really just shouldn't be an option for the playoffs for a team that wants to win it all) does better than Hill - yet Hill is in the doghouse.
Both Mason, Jr. and Hill were doing a decent job as backup-PGs earlier in the season - right now they're sucking worse than Tom Hanks does at pretending to be an actor.

[birdy219]

Here's my initial reaction: :cuss :bang :madrun :pctoss and did I mention :cuss

and for :pop::pimpslap :soapbox: :wtf :idiot (where's bowen and hill?)

Stop with the mason experiment :deadhorse

It's time for the team to come together :huddle::chestbump and earn another :lobt:

Let's :flag: