Tony Parker's recent play

[Pentagruel]

The last couple of games have me at a bit of a loss concerning Tony Parker. In the Clippers/Hornets/Thunder games he has been remarkably passive and that has negatively effected our offense. I'm all for keeping the rest of our teammates involved in the game but the bottom line is that Tony is the best weapon we have and we need to use him. This is especially the case when everyone else is ice cold.

Why do you think he has been so passive in these games since the big three have been together again? Is this the game plan to get everyone involved and flowing or is this specifically Tony not being aggressive enough?

Ciao,
Pent.

[Ice009]

Well I knew as soon as Tony opened his mouth the other day that it could be a bad move.

He came with a weak game and we lost. I'm seriously starting to regret calling Parker elite after that Hawks game.

I just finished watching the replay on ILP and the fucking game played OK until the last 3 or so minutes and it buffered like crazy at the end and I didn't get to see the finish.

Pop kinda had the right idea starting Manu, but not much of Gooden and no Hill and no Bowen is stupid.

Mason has gone Hedo. I was worried about him doing it, but he is going Hedo on us. Pop is partly to blame placing him at PG.

This has been Pop's worst coaching job. Nearly all his moves this season have stunk. Anytime he makes a good move he completely ruins it by changing it for no reason.

[Pentagruel]

Well, I don't think Parker has been necessarily bad in these games; he's shooting well enough from the field and he's getting passes to open shooters (who are bricking open shots) but he's not looking to take over the games as he has been doing for most of the season.

I have no problem with that interview Tony gave. I think it's nonsense that OKC would have played worse if Tony never opened his mouth.

In regards to Pop's decisions this season I think most of us are baffled. I'd like to be patient and see how things work out in the playoffs but the regression towards the end of the season has me worried.

Definitely Mason looks very uncomfortable out there playing the point as the skills required for that are not his strengths by any stretch of the imagination. I wouldn't be worried about Mason's shooting slump if his role on the team hadn't drastically changed in the second half of the season. Mason seemed comfortable at SG and I feel that he's a pretty confident guy for the most part as to be able to fight through a bad shooting stretch but combined with the unfamiliar role it might just be asking too much of him in his first season as a Spur.

While the backup point situation is not at all reassuring I'm also wondering why Thomas isn't getting that much playing time in the past couple of games. He's clearly the second best big we have. He's still got decent range on that jumper of his, is a great rebounder and can play solid defense even if he is a bit slow.

Ultimately i'll reserve judgment on Pop till the season is spent but I can't say i'm impressed with finishing touches to the regular season right now.

[TDMVPDPOY]

must be the curse of tim duncan mentionin him deserving mvp votes....ummm wat

[kace]

well, good question from the OP.

of course, we need not to take care of some usual stupid haters who will come with some stupid usual arguments.

The fact is that tony is shooting well (+50 %) but he's very passive.

i think that no one would not understand the coincidence with that passive play and the come back of tim and especially manu.

Is Pop asking Tony to do less in order to let manu and others back in rythm ?

Is tony struggling to find his place back in the big three ?



but the main question for me is the following one (i hope it won't turn into a manu vs tony thread)


Is this a good idea to waste Tony magic touch and aggressiveness in order to involve more players and to let a 70 % manu get more touches ?

i think Tony needs to be our first option in offense and probably shoots at the very least 15 times per game.

i say let him take control of our offense for the first three QT. Obviously, Tim needs to have his touches on the post. but it's more manu's ones, as a perimeter player, who seems to affect tony's agressiveness. so i prefer manu as a super role player for the first three QT.

If tony isn't in a very good day, or if the defense is adjusting efficiently to his game, let manu get more touches in the 4th. if tony is hot, let him keep on.

anyway, we know manu will probably be more involved in the 4th since he's always around in money time and he's our best clutch free throw shooter.

When Tony is aggressive, he's as good on offense as any other star player in the league. You see in recent opponent's quote that the defenses fear him when he's aggressive. when he's passive, he's almost useless.

Manu, even as the third option, seems more capable of doing things: a steal, a block, a 3 and of course his usual offensive things.


The choice is very clear: let Tony be the first option in the perimeter as long as it works. Let Tim be Tim at the post. Let manu be our super first role player, be the main man when he plays with our bench, and try him as our "savior" when everything seems to go bad.

Of course, considering the matchups, things could change in favor of one of our big three member, but generally, that's what i would like to see from the Spurs.

[Ice009]

The choice is very clear: let Tony be the first option in the perimeter as long as it works. Let Tim be Tim at the post. Let manu be our super first role player, be the main man when he plays with our bench, and try him as our "savior" when everything seems to go bad.

Of course, considering the matchups, things could change in favor of one of our big three member, but generally, that's what i would like to see from the Spurs.

I agree with you Kace. I don't know if you find that hard to believe, but I agree with you. Tony has carried the team most of the season and the Spurs are very dangerous when he is attacking. Tony should be the primary option and then Tim and Manu second depending on the match ups they get.

[Pentagruel]

I really think that is biggest reason we lost against the Hornets and OKC. Your best offensive option needs to take a larger responsibility on the court. Not only is Tony the best scorer on the Spurs, he is in the best position to create baskets for others (being the point guard) and has the ability and vision to do so. The ball needs to be in Tony's hands more then it has been and he should be allowed to make the decisions on offense.

[Bukefal]

well, good question from the OP.

of course, we need not to take care of some usual stupid haters who will come with some stupid usual arguments.

The fact is that tony is shooting well (+50 %) but he's very passive.

i think that no one would not understand the coincidence with that passive play and the come back of tim and especially manu.

Is Pop asking Tony to do less in order to let manu and others back in rythm ?

Is tony struggling to find his place back in the big three ?



but the main question for me is the following one (i hope it won't turn into a manu vs tony thread)


Is this a good idea to waste Tony magic touch and aggressiveness in order to involve more players and to let a 70 % manu get more touches ?

i think Tony needs to be our first option in offense and probably shoots at the very least 15 times per game.

i say let him take control of our offense for the first three QT. Obviously, Tim needs to have his touches on the post. but it's more manu's ones, as a perimeter player, who seems to affect tony's agressiveness. so i prefer manu as a super role player for the first three QT.

If tony isn't in a very good day, or if the defense is adjusting efficiently to his game, let manu get more touches in the 4th. if tony is hot, let him keep on.

anyway, we know manu will probably be more involved in the 4th since he's always around in money time and he's our best clutch free throw shooter.

When Tony is aggressive, he's as good on offense as any other star player in the league. You see in recent opponent's quote that the defenses fear him when he's aggressive. when he's passive, he's almost useless.

Manu, even as the third option, seems more capable of doing things: a steal, a block, a 3 and of course his usual offensive things.


The choice is very clear: let Tony be the first option in the perimeter as long as it works. Let Tim be Tim at the post. Let manu be our super first role player, be the main man when he plays with our bench, and try him as our "savior" when everything seems to go bad.

Of course, considering the matchups, things could change in favor of one of our big three member, but generally, that's what i would like to see from the Spurs.

Good post! I think pop his asking him to do less.

[TMTTRIO]

hey I'm up for Tony being the one taking on the scoring load with the way he can score on anyone and I think this season since Manu's coming back from injury he should be a role player and just let all the other players do most of the heavy work out there.

[anonoftheinternets]

whhich games are u guys watching, Tim - 12 shots, manu - 13 shots, parker - 8 shots, big 3 barely got 33 shot attempts.......... it was a poorly run show with mason - 10, finley - 16, bonner - 7 getting 33 shot attempts, thats why we lost :bang. Not coz manu took too many shots. Manu always takes 13-15 shots.

I think pop told tony to go easy to put more responsbility on the bench, and the big 3 thought they cud turn it up in the 4th to win, but that dint happen ...... just a badly coached game, but one in which its obvious pop was playing mad scientist .....

[ducks]

tp gets blamed for mike,mason, manu struggling from downtown

yes tp has struggled but when players do not make outside shots
it is harder for him to drive

[kace]

whhich games are u guys watching, Tim - 12 shots, manu - 13 shots, parker - 8 shots, big 3 barely got 33 shot attempts.......... it was a poorly run show with mason - 10, finley - 16, bonner - 7 getting 33 shot attempts, thats why we lost :bang. Not coz manu took too many shots. Manu always takes 13-15 shots.

I think pop told tony to go easy to put more responsbility on the bench, and the big 3 thought they cud turn it up in the 4th to win, but that dint happen ...... just a badly coached game, but one in which its obvious pop was playing mad scientist .....

i don't think anyone says manu should take less than 13 shots. indeed, as long as each of our big three take the most shots, we're good. though, tony should most of the time take the most attempts. certainly not only 8 shots

but there's no doubt it's better to have manu take 16 shots rather than Fin.

[ducks]

their is a reason the spurs have a great record when tp scores 25 points

[Pentagruel]

I never mentioned Manu getting too many shots, only that Parker wasn't getting enough and my question was whether this was due to a gameplan to get other players into a rhythm or Tony's lack of assertiveness.

I'm fine with Manu getting the amount of shots he got, he is a great offensive player for us also and should be getting the touches he is.

I personally feel that Tony should be more involved in the offense then he has the last three games and that this has been one of the major reasons we have lost two of the last three. It's great to get the entire team involved but if the shots ain't falling then its time to take charge of the game yourself; that's what stars do. Unfortunately that didn't happen this past game as you said.

[Pentagruel]

their is a reason the spurs have a great record when tp scores 25 points

Certainly. The Spurs are a lot better when Tony is being aggresive on the offense and running the show. This thread wasn't to knock Tony, just to wonder why he's played such a small role when he's shooting 50% from the field.

[ducks]

pop might want him to not get hurt so he is not taking it to the whole?
kind of resting now?

[Pentagruel]

pop might want him to not get hurt so he is not taking it to the whole?
kind of resting now?


That seems unlikely given the tight western conference race. I don't think he'd so lightly give up the second seed, especially when he could end up as low as 7th.

[anonoftheinternets]

i don't think anyone says manu should take less than 13 shots. indeed, as long as each of our big three take the most shots, we're good. though, tony should most of the time take the most attempts. certainly not only 8 shots

but there's no doubt it's better to have manu take 16 shots rather than Fin.

Well yeah, Tp should take most of the shots and thats how its always been. Tp is our volume scorer, manu only makes critical plays, Tim for defense, and pounding the rock in half court. I truly feel Pop told tony to back off against the "lowly" thunder to get the role players in playoff gear, and the big three couldnt flip the switch later in the game.

[kace]

Certainly. The Spurs are a lot better when Tony is being aggresive on the offense and running the show. This thread wasn't to knock Tony, just to wonder why he's played such a small role when he's shooting 50% from the field.

well, that's true that tony really seem to blossom totally when he's got the ball in his hands a lot, like CP3 or Nash. He proved he is then a very dangerous threat on offense.

but having Tim and Manu involved gives us more variety. for Tim, it's usually not a problem to have his touches.

It has to be a well balanced offense between Tony carrying the offense, tim doing his thing at the post, Manu involved, and the role players.

but once again, Parker's aggressiveness is one of our best weapon. we can't afford to waste it. i guess it's also a tony's weakness to sometimes disappear when he hasn't too much the ball in his hands, but a lot of guards are like that. you've got to find your rythm.

[Pentagruel]

I agree with you Anon. It does seem like that was the game plan and I don't like that one bit. Tony should always play aggressive basketball, that's what he does best. Once that happen the opposing teams will focus to stop his scoring and then opportunities will open for the rest of the team. They will thus naturally get involved; it shouldn't be forced which a little bit what it has seemed like as of late.

[kace]

Tony should always play aggressive basketball, that's what he does best. Once that happen the opposing teams will focus to stop his scoring and then opportunities will open for the rest of the team. They will thus naturally get involved; it shouldn't be forced which a little bit what it has seemed like as of late.

???? forced ?

lately either Tony has been wonderful on offense running everything, scoring lot at a high % and finding teamates, or he has been the two last game too much passive certainly not forcing things.

not saying he never forces things too much, it could happen, but lately (2 last games) that's certainly not the problem. rather the contrary.

[anonoftheinternets]

???? forced ?

lately either Tony has been wonderful on offense running everything, scoring lot at a high % and finding teamates, or he has been the two last game too much passive certainly not forcing things.

not saying he never forces things too much, it could happen, but lately (2 last games) that's certainly not the problem. rather the contrary.

i think he meant, tony was not aggresive intially, presumably coz pop told him to get teh role players involved, and then later when he tried to flip the switch, he was not able to. I think everyone agrees tony is the one that needs most shot attempts to get going, and that is good for the team, and that is how its going to be ....

jus a game where they tired too many things intially, and could not step up a gear and win in the end......

[Brazil]

Quality thread for once.

TP must take 15-20 attempts per game no doubt he must be our first O option, then Tim at the post and we need to let Manu being Manu basically he has to do whatever he wants.

Saying that I think that the spurs don't depend first on Tony being agressive BUT the spurs depend first on Tim being dominant. Tim is the captain of the ship the core of the big 3, without him being dominant no chance.

[Spuritguy]

You TP lovers just do not get it.. TP has never had a problem getting alot of shots---in fact he makes sure he gets his shots to the point he becomes a ball-hog. And because he is always looking to shoot, 2 very bad things happen. 1 He almost always has too few assits to be an effective point guard and 2 He holds the ball on the perimeter with no ball movement for too long and then is forced to make a desperate shot or desperate pass.
In short Parker being the main shooter has never translated into consistent wins over good teams, and especially in the playoffs. Good defense and good team oriented offense (pass the ball to an open shooter) is what wins.

[BlackSwordsMan]

eva is banging other dudes

[Cry Havoc]

I don't know if I've seen so many Spurs fans so worried about the regular season.

Parker will step it up in the playoffs. I'd rather have a rested team and the 4 seed than an exhausted team with the 2.

[Quiet Strength]

You TP lovers just do not get it.. TP has never had a problem getting alot of shots---in fact he makes sure he gets his shots to the point he becomes a ball-hog. And because he is always looking to shoot, 2 very bad things happen. 1 He almost always has too few assits to be an effective point guard and 2 He holds the ball on the perimeter with no ball movement for too long and then is forced to make a desperate shot or desperate pass.
In short Parker being the main shooter has never translated into consistent wins over good teams, and especially in the playoffs. Good defense and good team oriented offense (pass the ball to an open shooter) is what wins.

The problem is all of the other players cant buy a damn basket and parker seems to be the only player that can create an easy shot for himself. Getting easy shots and making them is much better than bonner and mason and even udoka jacking up nothing but 3's that havent been going in the basket these past few games.

[bobbybob0]

In short Parker being the main shooter has never translated into consistent wins over good teams, and especially in the playoffs. Good defense and good team oriented offense (pass the ball to an open shooter) is what wins.

Fail.

2007 Playoffs:

Tony: 17.5 FGA / Game
Tim: 16.7 FGA / Game
Manu: 12.35 FGA / Game

[roycrikside]

For once, I kind of agree with Kace. I think it's kind of obvious what Pop is trying to do. He is trying to get Manu into rhythm and back to playing 100% and he's trying to quicken the process than it would come naturally because the team can't afford to wait 15-20 games for it happen on its own.

Already, in just Manu's third and fourth games back, Pop has started playing Manu his regular minutes, called a lot of plays for him (more than he usually does anyway) and last game even started him. Why did he start him? Easy. To give him more playing time with Tim and Tony, since that will be the case in the playoffs. I still think Manu will go back to the bench soon, back to his 6th man role, but Pop is trying to do whatever he can to quicken Manu's recovery process.

Unfortunately, this coaching maneuver is costing the team games. Manu had the ball A LOT against OKC, and while he did some good things, it's obvious he doesn't have his legs fully yet. A 100% healthy and in rhythm Ginobili would've gotten like 18 shots and more FT attempts having the ball that much. This current Manu only got 13 shots and had to settle for passing it a lot down the stretch. For the most part he made the right pass to the open guy, and could've even finished with 8-10 assists if guys like Fin, Bonner, Mace, even Vaughn hit open shots, but they didn't.

There's no doubt Tony would've been more productive if he got the ball more, but Pop is resting him a lot, even when he's on the court. I really don't think he gives a shit about winning and losing at all. He just wants the big three at 100%.

The part about Bowen and Hill not playing, KT not playing until the fourth and all the other questionable moves/non-moves, I can't explain those at all....

[Yuixafun]

^ solid

[Ice009]

i don't think anyone says manu should take less than 13 shots. indeed, as long as each of our big three take the most shots, we're good. though, tony should most of the time take the most attempts. certainly not only 8 shots

but there's no doubt it's better to have manu take 16 shots rather than Fin.

Yep NO FREAKING WAY should Finley take 16 shots.

The big three need to take all the shots. If that is Tony 20, Tim 18, Manu 16 I am OK with that.

[EVAY]

Do you all remember that just before the home game against the L.A. Clippers (the game that immediately preceded the last two games that were so poor) Tony was getting a fair amount of good ink for having scored over 20 points in each of the last 10 or 12 ( I really don't remember the exact numbr of games) outings, and that there were only about 4 or so players who had more consecutive 20+ point games in the league right now? Moreover, the sports guy on woai hinted that it might be possible that if he kept playinglike he was, Tony Parker might actually be the Spurs MVP, replacing Timmy.

When I heard the guy say that, I said that Pop would never allow Timmy to be overshadowed by anyone else. At the game on the VERY next night, Tony got to 18 points and Pop pulled him out of the game for keeps. I SAW Tony go over to Pop and try to talk him into staying in the game, but there were only about 3 minutes left in the third quarter, The Spurs were up big time, and Pop told Tony to sit down. Tony tried to argue once more, and George Hill, (who was going in for Tony) came over and touched Tony on the side as he would when someone was getting in trouble with an official.

So you wanna know what the prob is with Tony for the last two games? He is pissed off. And I don't know that I blame him.

[Pentagruel]

Do you all remember that just before the home game against the L.A. Clippers (the game that immediately preceded the last two games that were so poor) Tony was getting a fair amount of good ink for having scored over 20 points in each of the last 10 or 12 ( I really don't remember the exact numbr of games) outings, and that there were only about 4 or so players who had more consecutive 20+ point games in the league right now? Moreover, the sports guy on woai hinted that it might be possible that if he kept playinglike he was, Tony Parker might actually be the Spurs MVP, replacing Timmy.

When I heard the guy say that, I said that Pop would never allow Timmy to be overshadowed by anyone else. At the game on the VERY next night, Tony got to 18 points and Pop pulled him out of the game for keeps. I SAW Tony go over to Pop and try to talk him into staying in the game, but there were only about 3 minutes left in the third quarter, The Spurs were up big time, and Pop told Tony to sit down. Tony tried to argue once more, and George Hill, (who was going in for Tony) came over and touched Tony on the side as he would when someone was getting in trouble with an official.

So you wanna know what the prob is with Tony for the last two games? He is pissed off. And I don't know that I blame him.


I don't know if he is pissed off per se. I think its clear though that since the Hawks game he has been deferring a lot more to his team members. The thing is, he is getting them open looks and they are just not knocking down their shots. When that happens I'm of the opinion he should just take the game over himself which he seemed more then capable of doing these past few games.

[Bukefal]

Who knows what the problem is, but we sure need him playing like he did before these last two games.