If the world's population were reduced to 100 people (representatively)....

[Cry Havoc]

http://www.miniature-earth.com/me_english.htm

Touching video.

[DarkReign]

That was pretty cool.

[DPG21920]

Very cool :tu

[Summers]

Cool.

[ToughActinTinactin]

:tu

[RandomGuy]

The majority of Americans are unaware that the majority of humanity lives in soul-crushing poverty.

I read a lot of news items about the developing world, and have to turn away at times because it is almost too much to bear. I look at my own children, who are healthy and happy, and cannot help but think about the hundreds of millions of children world-wide who live in indescribably miserable conditions.

When I see people spending tens of thousands of dollars on surgeries for pets, I think of this.

When I see shows on TV about people with 1000+ pairs of shoes, I cannot help but think about how many starving children that the money spent on those shoes would have saved.

The materialism in the US sickens me deeply.

I am always reminded about Oscar Schindler's epiphany in Schindler's list, in which he sobs and cries thinking about all of the people that he could not save because he just didn't have enough money to "buy" people out of the camps from the Nazis.

"This, I could have sold this, and saved... 2 more people...".

[tp2021]

The majority of Americans are unaware that the majority of humanity lives in soul-crushing poverty.

I read a lot of news items about the developing world, and have to turn away at times because it is almost too much to bear. I look at my own children, who are healthy and happy, and cannot help but think about the hundreds of millions of children world-wide who live in indescribably miserable conditions.

When I see people spending tens of thousands of dollars on surgeries for pets, I think of this.

When I see shows on TV about people with 1000+ pairs of shoes, I cannot help but think about how many starving children that the money spent on those shoes would have saved.

The materialism in the US sickens me deeply.

I am always reminded about Oscar Schindler's epiphany in Schindler's list, in which he sobs and cries thinking about all of the people that he could not save because he just didn't have enough money to "buy" people out of the camps from the Nazis.

"This, I could have sold this, and saved... 2 more people...".

That was beautiful to read. Just saying.

[101A]

The majority of Americans are unaware that the majority of humanity lives in soul-crushing poverty.

I read a lot of news items about the developing world, and have to turn away at times because it is almost too much to bear. I look at my own children, who are healthy and happy, and cannot help but think about the hundreds of millions of children world-wide who live in indescribably miserable conditions.

When I see people spending tens of thousands of dollars on surgeries for pets, I think of this.

When I see shows on TV about people with 1000+ pairs of shoes, I cannot help but think about how many starving children that the money spent on those shoes would have saved.

The materialism in the US sickens me deeply.



...and the "wealth redistribution" that is championed in this country simply moves money from wealthy people to the not quite so wealthy people (speaking from a global perspective). And now, charitable giving from the wealthiest (which is one of the ways substantial foreign aid gets delivered) is on track to being discouraged by our government - because our govt. desires to use more of that money domestically to their own ends.

And, RG, if there wasn't materialism and greed in this country, the vast wealth wouldn't exist to be redistributed. Greed is the motivating factor for both the creation and hoarding of wealth. Can't have one without the other. It is an enigma.

[RandomGuy]

...and the "wealth redistribution" that is championed in this country simply moves money from wealthy people to the not quite so wealthy people (speaking from a global perspective). And now, charitable giving from the wealthiest (which is one of the ways substantial foreign aid gets delivered) is on track to being discouraged by our government - because our govt. desires to use more of that money domestically to their own ends.

And, RG, if there wasn't materialism and greed in this country, the vast wealth wouldn't exist to be redistributed. Greed is the motivating factor for both the creation and hoarding of wealth. Can't have one without the other. It is an enigma.

I understand the nature of capitalism, and fully acknowledge that the ability to profit from one's own labor, ideas, and hard work, is what created the majority of the wealth of the United States.

At some point, however, one has to ask how much wealth does one person truly need? one million? one hundred million? a billion?

Jesus' remark to his disciples regarding the gift to the temple of the poor widow of two pennies when contrasted to the rich man's gift of a sack of gold, always comes to mind.


1As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. 2He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins.[a] 3"I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. 4All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."

If one benefits from a system the most, I don't feel all that sad if they end up having to pay the most to support the system that generated their wealth to begin with.

One should benefit from one's work, and that is right and good. But I think we as a nation worship materialism a bit overmuch.

[RandomGuy]

"Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." --Jesus


I may not be one much for church-going, or hold a very high opinion of self-righteous zealots, but I do think there is more than a little wisdom in the things that Jesus said about wealth and the poor.

[101A]

I understand the nature of capitalism, and fully acknowledge that the ability to profit from one's own labor, ideas, and hard work, is what created the majority of the wealth of the United States.

At some point, however, one has to ask how much wealth does one person truly need? one million? one hundred million? a billion?



When should society decide it no longer has anything to gain from the individual accumulating that wealth creating more of it for the rest of us?

As for Jesus: just finished studying James in Sunday School; had a little to say on the issue, as well:

James(5)

1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.a]" class="footnote">[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=66&chapter=5&version=31#fen-NIV-30344a)] 6You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you.

...but from Mathew(25) we have the following:


14"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15To one he gave five talentsa]" class="footnote">[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=25&version=31#fen-NIV-24021a)] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money. 19"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'
21"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
22"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'
23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'


Jesus had little patience for either greedy, dishonest rich people, or lazy poor ones.

[RandomGuy]

When should society decide it no longer has anything to gain from the individual accumulating that wealth creating more of it for the rest of us?

As for Jesus: just finished studying James in Sunday School; had a little to say on the issue, as well:

James(5)


...but from Mathew(25) we have the following:



Jesus had little patience for either greedy, dishonest rich people, or lazy poor ones.


So the people living on $1.00 per day are all lazy?

[101A]

So the people living on $1.00 per day are all lazy?


RG meet Strawman. Strawman, RG.

You're better than that.

[101A]

Point is Jesus didn't have scorn for all Rich people, OR all poor people; However he has teachings and guidance for the actions and motivations of both.

[RandomGuy]

RG meet Strawman. Strawman, RG.

You're better than that.

I didn't say you believed it, I was just going to begin to make the case against another of my least favorite assumptions:

"If somebody is poor it is because they deserve it somehow."

Many people seem to think that if you are born in this country, that automatically means that you have a perfect opportunity to become wealthy, and that is not the case.

I tend to view it as the "war on the poor" in which any real aid to the poor in this country is viewed as unnecessary, because if you aren't making a six figure salary here, you are somehow morally culpable or deficient.

[101A]

Many people seem to think that if you are born in this country, that automatically means that you have a perfect opportunity to become wealthy, and that is not the case.



The video in the OP makes the charge, essentially, that if you are fortunate enough to be born in this country you ARE wealthy.

[LockBeard]

I've come to the conclusion that compassion for others outside of my immediate family is something I will have to develop in my next lifetime.

I do not believe my money I have made as an American should be taken from me and given to others, certainly not those in outside countries who I have absolutely nothing to do with, unless I myself choose to do so. After some self-reflection, I feel it has nothing to do with the less fortunate around the world. Of course I feel sorry for them. Instead, it is all of these other assholes who exhibit the flaws in humanity that get under my skin and are the ones telling me what I should be doing when I know they are hypocrites themselves. Who is someone to tell me or my father who grew up dirt ass poor and is now enjoying the fruits of his labor how much is too much?

We are all asked to sacrifice, however few ever seem to question the one who is receiving the sacrificial givings and redistributing them back out.

I will not be guilt tripped into others problems and effects of their own doing/circumstances. I will have to suffer the spiritual consequences.

[desflood]

I am always reminded about Oscar Schindler's epiphany in Schindler's list, in which he sobs and cries thinking about all of the people that he could not save because he just didn't have enough money to "buy" people out of the camps from the Nazis.

"This, I could have sold this, and saved... 2 more people...".
It's funny - I think it was the History Channel did a show on Schindler. They did an interview with one of his old acquaintances who said (I'm paraphrasing), "The real Schindler was a hardass. He never would have broken down that way." :lol

[RandomGuy]

The video in the OP makes the charge, essentially, that if you are fortunate enough to be born in this country you ARE wealthy.

That is essentially the case.

Although I need to find that swedish economist's video about global living standards and post that here. It is a very fascinating look into how humanity is developing economically.

You would be surprised at how little money/income it takes to make a vast difference in the life of someone in the developing world.

I would imagine that if one were to plot/measure quality of life on a graph with each dollar of income, it would be a curve with the first dollar making the most difference and gradually trailing off as one goes along with each additional dollar.

[RandomGuy]

It's funny - I think it was the History Channel did a show on Schindler. They did an interview with one of his old acquaintances who said (I'm paraphrasing), "The real Schindler was a hardass. He never would have broken down that way." :lol

Heh, I know a lot of hardasses who break down when they watch Old Yeller...

Hardass doesn't mean that they can't have the occasional emotional epiphany, heh.

[RandomGuy]

That was beautiful to read. Just saying.

Thanks, by the way.

[Don Quixote]

Random Dude is saying something important. As you all may well know, I am quite a proponent of capitalism, and believe one of America's biggest virtues is the ability to buy whatever you want, for any reason whatsoever, so long as you can afford it. That is wonderful. And I harbor no guilt whatsoever -- my lifestyle takes nothing from anyone else. Capitalists do not steal what they have. We pay for it.

Buying a fuel-efficient vehicle might have me some $$, but it won't make that gas magically appear somewhere else. Same goes for my food -- my refusing to eat a flame-broiled Whopper may make me healthier, but it won't provide a bit of food for the starving masses in Darfur. (I tend to think alot of the stuff Americans do to solve the world's problems are just symbolism and solve nothing.)

That said, Random Dude is on to something. Just because we CAN, as Americans, buy stuff, doesn't mean we OUGHT to. I would advocate moving toward a more biblical view of wealth and possession (that we are not to judge our meaning and worth on them) and voluntarily choosing to embrace a simpler lifestyle. Being more generous to worthy charities. Perhaps finding ways to encourage capitalism in oppressed nations (how? I don't know).

And we should do this not because the goods will magically show up in North Korea (if they did, Kim Jong il would steal them). Or because we feel guilty about our way of life. Or because the President told us to "sacrifice." But because it is right.

[tp2021]

Thanks, by the way.

:tu

[MiamiHeat]

And, RG, if there wasn't materialism and greed in this country, the vast wealth wouldn't exist to be redistributed. Greed is the motivating factor for both the creation and hoarding of wealth. Can't have one without the other. It is an enigma.

what?? you are completely incorrect

you can be a person who is motivated to earn a lot of money and still avoid being greedy and materialistic.

[101A]

what?? you are completely incorrect

you can be a person who is motivated to earn a lot of money and still avoid being greedy and materialistic.


"Can be" being the operative word(s).

Doesn't matter the motivation, those people who earn a great deal are almost always protrayed that way; and, ultimately it IS the desire to earn that money, or prestige - and do with it what you will (including give it away) that inspires those capitalists that have helped this country create more wealth than any other at any time in history.

What I can imagine has NEVER happened is some dude building a huge company, or inventing a revolutionary widget thinking, "damn, this is great, I can earn a lot of money for the government, so they can make the World a better place!"

[tp2021]

what?? you are completely incorrect

you can be a person who is motivated to earn a lot of money and still avoid being greedy and materialistic.

I think the keyword is 'hoarding." not so sure about creation though, but i'm too tired to think.

[RandomGuy]

what?? you are completely incorrect

you can be a person who is motivated to earn a lot of money and still avoid being greedy and materialistic.

What I think he was trying to say (and I haven't finished entirely reading everything yet) was that greed in and of itself isn't enherently a completely bad thing.

It can be something of a motivation to prosper and do well for oneself, and can be a measure of one's ability to look out for oneself.

He would probably agree that there is a line between motivation to provide for oneself and one's family and avarice, which is clearly somewhat twisted.

If I remember correctly one of the great Greek philosophers commented that the only difference between a virtue and a vice was the degree to which it was practiced, such as in this instance.

[RandomGuy]

"Can be" being the operative word(s).

Doesn't matter the motivation, those people who earn a great deal are almost always protrayed that way; and, ultimately it IS the desire to earn that money, or prestige - and do with it what you will (including give it away) that inspires those capitalists that have helped this country create more wealth than any other at any time in history.

What I can imagine has NEVER happened is some dude building a huge company, or inventing a revolutionary widget thinking, "damn, this is great, I can earn a lot of money for the government, so they can make the World a better place!"

I have put myself on a career path to eventually become the CFO of a company. I have done so out of a desire to earn money, and a lot of it.

My sole intention is to live fairly modestly, and hoard enough money to either start a charitable fund, or help run one in order to help the developing world.

To this end, I have read a lot on topics of energy, economic development, and have read a lot about the nation-building exercises that we as a nation have set ourselves on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Personally, I have come to believe that raising living standards world-wide is the surest way to raise living standards in the US.

[DarkReign]

I have put myself on a career path to eventually become the CFO of a company. I have done so out of a desire to earn money, and a lot of it.

My sole intention is to live fairly modestly, and hoard enough money to either start a charitable fund, or help run one in order to help the developing world.

To this end, I have read a lot on topics of energy, economic development, and have read a lot about the nation-building exercises that we as a nation have set ourselves on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Personally, I have come to believe that raising living standards world-wide is the surest way to raise living standards in the US.

...then you should find yourself investing in manually operated water pumps sold by some genius engineer and his charity.

You want to make the biggest difference, theres where you start. Clean drinking water.

Cant remember the details, but an American engineer designed/patented a foot operated, deep water pump. Theyre expensive but he refuses to sell them. Waits for investment dollars from charitable people/programs, then installs them in the middle of the Sahara/Kalahari deserts.

Basically, the villages that get them have to have someone "stair-stepping" nearly all day to make it work, but that is a very small price to pay. Its incredibly simple and parts will almost never be needed.

One thing I read though, is that they are a commodity. So much so, that the villages who receive them had better keep quiet about it to other villages. Because they will migrate to them, en masse. Not only that, the local warlords know to secure these pumps as assets.

Africa is the most beautiful place in the world, bar none, hands down. But it is by far the most fucked up and violent refelection of humanity one could ever dream of.

No amount of money, charity or goodwill will ever change the reality of human being's quest for dominance over others. You could build enough schools to educate all of Africa's youth, you could install deep water pumps in every village, you could invest X amount of dollars in every village to get started...and in three short years the rivers will run red with the blood of those same people. Reality is far worse than any fiction when it comes to Mother Africa.

[Don Quixote]

DarkKingdom has a realistic view of the African situation. No amount of charity or American federal grants is going to change that situation (and did I mention AIDS?) until there is some form of freedom, democracy, and economic development there. (How to get there? Beats me. Perhaps educate 1-2 generations of Africans on the need for freedom, human rights, etc.?) What they have right now is thug-ism.

And as an evangelical, of course what is needed, more than anything, is the gospel.

[101A]

I have put myself on a career path to eventually become the CFO of a company. I have done so out of a desire to earn money, and a lot of it.

My sole intention is to live fairly modestly, and hoard enough money to either start a charitable fund, or help run one in order to help the developing world.

To this end, I have read a lot on topics of energy, economic development, and have read a lot about the nation-building exercises that we as a nation have set ourselves on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Personally, I have come to believe that raising living standards world-wide is the surest way to raise living standards in the US.

You evil capitilist, you!

:toast

[RandomGuy]

...then you should find yourself investing in manually operated water pumps sold by some genius engineer and his charity.

You want to make the biggest difference, theres where you start. Clean drinking water.

Cant remember the details, but an American engineer designed/patented a foot operated, deep water pump. Theyre expensive but he refuses to sell them. Waits for investment dollars from charitable people/programs, then installs them in the middle of the Sahara/Kalahari deserts.

Basically, the villages that get them have to have someone "stair-stepping" nearly all day to make it work, but that is a very small price to pay. Its incredibly simple and parts will almost never be needed.

One thing I read though, is that they are a commodity. So much so, that the villages who receive them had better keep quiet about it to other villages. Because they will migrate to them, en masse. Not only that, the local warlords know to secure these pumps as assets.

Africa is the most beautiful place in the world, bar none, hands down. But it is by far the most fucked up and violent refelection of humanity one could ever dream of.

No amount of money, charity or goodwill will ever change the reality of human being's quest for dominance over others. You could build enough schools to educate all of Africa's youth, you could install deep water pumps in every village, you could invest X amount of dollars in every village to get started...and in three short years the rivers will run red with the blood of those same people. Reality is far worse than any fiction when it comes to Mother Africa.

You might find this pump interesting. (http://www.playpumps.org/site/c.hqLNIXOEKrF/b.2589561/k.C08/The_PlayPump_System__The_Water_Problem.htm)

Basically, it creates a pump, then attaches that pump to a merry-go-round for kids to play on, letting the kids running around it power the pump.

Another good idea needing money is solar cookers. (http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/archive/2005-03/Solar-Cookers.cfm?moddate=2005-03-27)

It prevents wood from having to be harvested/burned for cooking fires.

Both are time/labor savers with easy to use, cheap methodology.

Here is another one that uses solar concentrating mirrors to boil water. (http://solarfireproject.blogspot.com/2008/02/boiled-water.html)

Combine inventions like this with some simple micro credit organizations.

There are a lot of awesome, low-tech things that are coming out these days. It is quite exciting.

[Gordon Gekko]

Greed is good.

[RandomGuy]

DarkKingdom has a realistic view of the African situation. No amount of charity or American federal grants is going to change that situation (and did I mention AIDS?) until there is some form of freedom, democracy, and economic development there. (How to get there? Beats me. Perhaps educate 1-2 generations of Africans on the need for freedom, human rights, etc.?) What they have right now is thug-ism.

And as an evangelical, of course what is needed, more than anything, is the gospel.

Talks Hans Rosling: Debunking third-world myths with the best stats you've ever seen
RUwS1uAdUcI

If the thread topic at all interests you, and even if not, you should watch this video.

The economist here has a couple of videos, and in the second one finishes the presentation by sword-swallowing. Heh, not your tipical older swedish economist. He is one of my personal heroes, and I hope to meet him someday.

[RandomGuy]

Greed is good.


The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.



Thank you very much.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechwallstreet.html

[RandomGuy]

You evil capitilist, you!

:toast
Thanks.

It might take me 30 years, but I will do it. Money is a tool, nothing more. A very useful tool, but a tool nonetheless. A lot of people lose sight of that.

[CuckingFunt]

I don't see why we can't embrace elements of capitalism without also demanding that they operate ethically and fairly.

[DarkReign]

I don't see why we can't embrace elements of capitalism without also demanding that they operate ethically and fairly.

While thats a very noble and appropriate response to a simple question, I think we forget the human factor.

You know, that we're blood-sucking parasites who'd step over our dead brothers and sisters to be the next millionaire.

Humanity is ugly. Civilization is horrendous. But its the best we got, plain and simple. Because beating on each other with blunt objects for the first 30-ish thousand years got us nowhere.

[CuckingFunt]

While thats a very noble and appropriate response to a simple question, I think we forget the human factor.

You know, that we're blood-sucking parasites who'd step over our dead brothers and sisters to be the next millionaire.

Humanity is ugly. Civilization is horrendous. But its the best we got, plain and simple. Because beating on each other with blunt objects for the first 30-ish thousand years got us nowhere.

I don't disagree with this, but neither will I allow myself to accept it as an absolute.

I think that the only reason all that ugly has been associated with an unavoidable facet of human nature is because we have, collectively, allowed biology and instinct to be used as an excuse for bad behavior for the past few millennia. Capitalism, colonization, globalization, genocide, Manifest Destiny, et al -- this stuff all happened (happens) because there was something specifically to gain from it, not because we got bored and couldn't think of any other way to entertain ourselves. It's not going to happen in my lifetime, of course, but I'd like to think we possess the ability to someday realize that those gains can be made without the need to conquer our planet and all of its peoples in the process.

[Mark in Austin]

I have to respectfully disagree with the notion that we should chalk up everything ugly about humanity in genral or Africa in particular as simply human nature. I think that explanation ignores the consequences - often unintended - of specific actions. With respect to Africa - the explosion of suffering and brutality we have witnessed in the past 20 years has an awful lot to do with the sudden availability of a near limitless supply of weapons from the old Soviet Union and it's satellite states.

Further back in history, when the colonial powers left Africa, they left a societal vacuum - there weren't the established social institutions and traditions that a modern, moderate society organizes itself around. The Future of Freedom by Fahreed Zakahria - talks about this. In those situations you either find ultra-nationalist extremeists rise to power (think Milosovich in Serbia) or a complete collapse into chaos like parts of Africa.

Economically, we had a relatively stable economic system for quite a few decades after the end of WWII. The choices to change certain rules - whatever the initial reasons for those choices - have resulted in some financial companies and individuals being able to legally act on their greed to the extreme extent some have, destroying companies and lives along the way.

My point with both examples is that while it may be human nature to be greedy, it is also human nature for societies / organizations to coalesce around rules and an implicit agreement by the members of the society to follow those rules. It is when society breaks down - when the rules fall away no matter if by active choice, apathy, or outside forces - that you see the worst humanity has to offer on a chaotic, large scale.

I don't write this as an apology or an excuse for the actions of any individual - we are all responsible for our own actions. But it would be foolish to try to deny that humanity is social by nature: family, tribe, city, state, country - the principles or rules of the group(s) to which we belong effect / inform our decisions and actions.

[MiamiHeat]

What I think he was trying to say (and I haven't finished entirely reading everything yet) was that greed in and of itself isn't enherently a completely bad thing.

It can be something of a motivation to prosper and do well for oneself, and can be a measure of one's ability to look out for oneself.

He would probably agree that there is a line between motivation to provide for oneself and one's family and avarice, which is clearly somewhat twisted.

If I remember correctly one of the great Greek philosophers commented that the only difference between a virtue and a vice was the degree to which it was practiced, such as in this instance.
nope
this is what he said.


And, RG, if there wasn't materialism and greed in this country, the vast wealth wouldn't exist to be redistributed. Greed is the motivating factor for both the creation and hoarding of wealth. Can't have one without the other. It is an enigma.

[ploto]

And we should do this not because the goods will magically show up in North Korea (if they did, Kim Jong il would steal them). Or because we feel guilty about our way of life. Or because the President told us to "sacrifice." But because it is right.

It isn't charity- it is justice.

[Don Quixote]

It isn't charity- it is justice.

Can you elaborate? I'm confused. What would be just in this situation?

Do you think that the resources we don't use here -- gasoline, electricity, paper, metals -- will somehow appear in North Korea, Africa, or Bangladesh, merely by virtue by our not using them?

How exactly is it unjust to use the things that you have earned -- your car, your home, your electricity? Did we steal them from someone else? I haven't.

Would it be any more just if a govt were to mandate the taking of goods from one group and giving them to another without payment whatsoever? What exactly are you proposing?