Who to keep from the suns roster...

[pauls931]

Since today sealed their fate... Who do you keep?

Amundson? Barbosa? Will both nash and amare have to go or keep one? What about shaq and richardson? There's a lot of work to do. Does barnes come back? How about Hill?

[The Franchise]

Amundson, Barbosa, Dragic, and Amare. Amare is still young enough to teach if you get the right coach.

[Ghazi]

Keep everyone. The team's been playing historically good offense since the coaching change. You can't break up this great of an offensive team. You just have to have them buy into an "average defensive philosophy"

As 2001 showed w/ the Lakers and 2006 showed w/ the Mavs, you don't need elite defense to win a championship if your offense is efficient enough.

Shaq played well this year, but Amare didn't. Last year Amare played well but Shaq didn't. You have a fearsome front court if you have both playing well at the same time.

If it still isn't working out by trade deadline 2010, have a fire sale.

The one thing to watch out for is Shaq though. Players who have significant rises in production after the age of 28 typically come back down the Earth the next year (according to Hollinger :)). It could be possible Shaq reverts to 07-08 form next year.

[The Franchise]

^Too many old dogs to teach new tricks.

[pauls931]

Can they get this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqoSdFdVlzo

[DrHouse]

I don't even know if Amare is worth keeping.

Jettison Nash, Richardson, Shaq.

Just start from scratch basically. PHX will literally have to rebuild from almost nothing. It's going to take a few years, but if they play their cards right they can be back in the thick of things as the Lakers start to decline.

[carrao45]

Keep everyone. The team's been playing historically good offense since the coaching change. You can't break up this great of an offensive team. You just have to have them buy into an "average defensive philosophy"

As 2001 showed w/ the Lakers and 2006 showed w/ the Mavs, you don't need elite defense to win a championship if your offense is efficient enough.

Shaq played well this year, but Amare didn't. Last year Amare played well but Shaq didn't. You have a fearsome front court if you have both playing well at the same time.

If it still isn't working out by trade deadline 2010, have a fire sale.

The one thing to watch out for is Shaq though. Players who have significant rises in production after the age of 28 typically come back down the Earth the next year (according to Hollinger :)). It could be possible Shaq reverts to 07-08 form next year.


your argument would make sense but...THE MAVS LOST!!!!:lol:lol:lol

[Austin_Toros]

Jared Dudley.

Everybody else is expendable.

[Ghazi]

your argument would make sense but...THE MAVS LOST!!!!:lol:lol:lol

No they didn't. Basketball is a 5 v 5 game. 8 v 5 is not basketball therefore the Mavs did not lose.

[ducks]

nash for ai?

nash needs to go
he created chemistry problems and did not show respect to porter

amare is not going to get much in the market tell he proves he can see again in basketball games


shaq is stuck to do his contract

[anonoftheinternets]

I don't even know if Amare is worth keeping.

Jettison Nash, Richardson, Shaq.

Just start from scratch basically. PHX will literally have to rebuild from almost nothing. It's going to take a few years, but if they play their cards right they can be back in the thick of things as the Lakers start to decline.

lol lakers decline? they havent even been to the top yet. Hopefully they dont blow the opportunity in the finals again. Best of luck. :toast

[BUMP]

:lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfdEn0fNdvs&feature=related

[BUMP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrEWI4nRse0&feature=related:lmao

[Warlord23]

If the aim is winning championships, they need to blow up this team and start from scratch. Rebuild with prospects and draft picks.

Nash and Shaq will be valuable expiring contracts next year. Trade them for cap space, youth, picks.

Amare: Depends on whether he wants to stay or bolt for greener pastures. The Knicks, among others, will have a ton of cap space and will likely sign at least one other big-name player (LeBron or Wade). Better to trade Amare for a few solid players and perhaps a pick.

Barbosa: Try and keep him, although he is terrible on D. He has the quickness and the range, and his defensive shortcomings can be masked if you have right inside shot-blocking presence. Of course, if the right deal came along you could package him with any of the aforementioned assets for some value in return.

Richardson: His contract will make it tough to trade him. He does have his athletic ability and skills, so you could keep him

Keep Amundson, Lopez and Dragic. Dragic seems to have some tools, best to let him develop while carrying a bad team (a la Kevin Martin in Sacto). Groom Amundson and Lopez as your bench bigs.

Try to resign Hill, although he might bolt to a team with better title prospects.

Barnes and Dudley: WGAF. They dont make much anyway.

It's probably going to take 3 years at the least and I'm not sure if Kerr is the right guy for the job.

All those years of dumping draft picks has really come home to roost. All you can hope for is to find the likes of Amare, Deng, Rondo, Rudy Fernandez or Sergio Rodriguez in the next 2-3 drafts.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I don't even know if Amare is worth keeping.

Jettison Nash, Richardson, Shaq.

Just start from scratch basically. PHX will literally have to rebuild from almost nothing. It's going to take a few years, but if they play their cards right they can be back in the thick of things as the Lakers start to decline.

I know plenty of fans might view ^this as a hater hating, but it's the right analysis.

First thing's first, take Barnes into the back, tie him to a chair, light his body on fire, and then shoot him like they did to that guy at the beginning of American Gangster.

Then here's where the dump truck does work. Nash, Shaq, and Amare all need to go. Only reason I include Shaq is because the only thing he has to offer next season is distractions. Nash and Amare have instilled a lethargic defense mentality and the only way we're getting rid of it is dumping both of them.

Dump Gentry, hire Avery Johnson.

I'd love to see J-Bitch get traded but I doubt anyone would want that contract, maybe Kerr will surprise us. I'm gonna assume he stays.

Barbosa needs to go as well. He has things he does well but he tries to force the issue way too much and is just too stupid to play a major role on a deep playoff team.

Refuse to resign Grant Hill because of how much you fucked him with this crud roster.

Basically, the only asset this team has is the 14th pick in a crud draft and Goran Dragic. Yikes.

[BUMP]

Trade Shaq to Burger King

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And people like Pauls931 might call me a pessimist for that analysis, but I'm not one to sugarcoat things. Like it or not, and I don't fuckin like it at all, this is what's on the Suns plate for 3-5 years. Deal with it, or go cheer for 76ers if you like 1st round exits every year.

[Ghazi]

Speaking of Sixers, they have some VERY nice young players. Williams, Young, and Speights. Iggy's only 25 too.

Is that Brand signing EVER gonna work out for them!? Will they resign Miller?! Decisions, decisions

If Brand doesn't work out my God they're fucked, dudes getting paid big bucks until 2012-2013, would be a shame if that young talent is held back by the Brand cancer factor.

[Xylus]

Jared Dudley.

+1`

I love Jared Dudley. He's my new Raja Bell.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yeah keep Dudley too, I would have never thought Dudley would be a bigger asset than J-Bitch at the time of that trade.

[ElNono]

Knowing Sarver, however much money can be saved, that's the way the team is gonna go. I think they're going to have to suck up Shaq's contract because I don't know that they can move him, but I think everyone else is fair game.

[Ghazi]

Stackhouse/Carroll for J-Bitch :)

[spursfan1000]

Trade Amare for a first round pick (top 10). Trade Shaq just to get his contract out of the way. Get Hill out of there. Keep Barbosa, Amundon ,Dragic, Barnes. Just get all of the old players out and get new players in.

[pauls931]

The shaq part has me worried whether anyone will take him on. Since contending next year is out of the question maybe the suns can risk giving him to a Lakers/Spurs or wherever lebron is at.

I love nash, but he'll probably bolt after having to put up with this management. Maybe he can try boston/GS. He's old enough that I'm not sure Dantoni would risk having him in NY since NY is rebuilding unless he's willing to have nash sculpture their next PG. (ideally that was supposed to be dragic)

Amare, I vote for keeping him too, he's still young, has playoff experience. (could of had more...)

Richardson, I like him, not as much as both Diaw and Bell, but I'd say keep him.

Dragic, yes after porter left, he's starting to show potential. Still needs a couple years of bk pg time.

Amundson, just pure hustle, keep him. But yes, he's a career bench role player.

Hill, I like him, he's been playing well outside of one catch. I wouldn't mind him staying, but I think he bolts for a contender.

Lopez... *sigh*

Dudley, not sure what to make of him, he seems to be able to hit the long ball so maybe he's worth keeping since management forgot that a dominant bigman needs shooters.

Barbosa, at this point, yes he's a must keep player. I've been wanting to trade him in the past(pre diaw and bell departing), but the way things have evolved, they must keep him now.

Barnes, I like some attitude and if he's cheap, keep him. for now...

Either way I can't pin this on a single player, but just the chemistry and effort requires a high turnover. And Kerr.... I vastly underestimated the impact of the shaq trade and so did he and everyone else. I thought they could continue to play smallball and just wait for shaq to come down if they could not strike quickly. Unfortunately, I think we just witnessed how good a perimeter defender marion was/is. Too bad he and Amare couldn't have got along...

[lurker]

Suns still plan to offer Nash a multi-year contract extension.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The shaq part has me worried whether anyone will take him on. Since contending next year is out of the question maybe the suns can risk giving him to a Lakers/Spurs or wherever lebron is at.

I love nash, but he'll probably bolt after having to put up with this management. Maybe he can try boston/GS. He's old enough that I'm not sure Dantoni would risk having him in NY since NY is rebuilding unless he's willing to have nash sculpture their next PG. (ideally that was supposed to be dragic)

Amare, I vote for keeping him too, he's still young, has playoff experience. (could of had more...)

Richardson, I like him, not as much as both Diaw and Bell, but I'd say keep him.

Dragic, yes after porter left, he's starting to show potential. Still needs a couple years of bk pg time.

Amundson, just pure hustle, keep him. But yes, he's a career bench role player.

Hill, I like him, he's been playing well outside of one catch. I wouldn't mind him staying, but I think he bolts for a contender.

Lopez... *sigh*

Dudley, not sure what to make of him, he seems to be able to hit the long ball so maybe he's worth keeping since management forgot that a dominant bigman needs shooters.

Barbosa, at this point, yes he's a must keep player. I've been wanting to trade him in the past(pre diaw and bell departing), but the way things have evolved, they must keep him now.

Barnes, I like some attitude and if he's cheap, keep him. for now...

Either way I can't pin this on a single player, but just the chemistry and effort requires a high turnover. And Kerr.... I vastly underestimated the impact of the shaq trade and so did he and everyone else. I thought they could continue to play smallball and just wait for shaq to come down if they could not strike quickly. Unfortunately, I think we just witnessed how good a perimeter defender marion was/is. Too bad he and Amare couldn't have got along...

So let me get this straight, you want to make virtually no roster changes to a team that's headed nowhere. Kerr isn't the greatest GM in the world but thank god you aren't GM.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Suns still plan to offer Nash a multi-year contract extension.


That's basically the equivalent of a woman with breast cancer deciding to not treat it.

[pauls931]

Suns still plan to offer Nash a multi-year contract extension.

Then they better doing some serious restructuring in addition to that. Nash almost got them to the finals a couple years back, so I'm not pinning all the problems on him... But they need to address help defense where Marion was very strong. The problem is people penetrate in such a manner that Shaq can't rotate and amare the only big athletic enough to doesn't.

They need to fix perimeter and weakside help D. I know nash is an easy target, but I've seen dragic and barbosa get smoked by elite PGs just as bad. The best defense is played by a team, not individuals trying to shut down one person. The spurs are a perfect example of this. (fuckin spurs...)

[turiaf for president]

its time to clean house. keep amare and barbosa. j rich cant be moved but shaq and nash is in their contract year so there may be people interested. if you dont want a long contract in return, buyout shaq

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I know nash is an easy target
He's anything but an easy target. There are tons of Nash T-baggers that blindly defend him like you are doing right now.

In case you forgot, the Suns sucked at defense when they had Marion, which is what pisses me off the most about the Nash/D'antoni lovers is the short term memory loss. You fucks talk about the Suns prior to the Shaq trade like they were a world class defensive team, their D sucked just as much prior to the trade only in different areas.

[pauls931]

He's anything but an easy target. There are tons of Nash T-baggers that blindly defend him like you are doing right now.

In case you forgot, the Suns sucked at defense when they had Marion, which is what pisses me off the most about the Nash/D'antoni lovers is the short term memory loss. You fucks talk about the Suns prior to the Shaq trade like they were a world class defensive team, their D sucked just as much prior to the trade only in different areas.

They didn't suck this bad... I think their performance after dantoni left showed that they did play a little d.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

YAY!!! Keep this team together so we can watch a borderline playoff team for another season!!! Who cares all that does is delay several years of rebuilding!!! Nash needs to have fun!!! We love our boys in orange!!!

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

They didn't suck this bad... I think their performance after dantoni left showed that they did play a little d.


Incase you didn't notice, D'antoni, Nash and Marion haven't accomplished shit. Shaq had four rings. Why do you think Shaq is the reason this team can't win a title?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What's even worse is that you even want them to keep Barnes. He's like the Sasha Vujacic of the Suns. He contributes nothing but the little cult of fans that know nothing about basketball like him for no reason.

[rogcl1]

Keep everyone. The team's been playing historically good offense since the coaching change. You can't break up this great of an offensive team. You just have to have them buy into an "average defensive philosophy"

As 2001 showed w/ the Lakers and 2006 showed w/ the Mavs, you don't need elite defense to win a championship if your offense is efficient enough.

Shaq played well this year, but Amare didn't. Last year Amare played well but Shaq didn't. You have a fearsome front court if you have both playing well at the same time.

If it still isn't working out by trade deadline 2010, have a fire sale.

The one thing to watch out for is Shaq though. Players who have significant rises in production after the age of 28 typically come back down the Earth the next year (according to Hollinger :)). It could be possible Shaq reverts to 07-08 form next year.


Isn't that what Terry Porter was brought in to do and then was totally sold up the river by management and bunch of players too lazy and pampered to bust their ass on defense . I don't think you play defense half way. You either commit to it , or a half ass attempt will produce results you see from them now. Oh , Porter may not have been the greatest coach,but he isn't an idiot. He was doing what he was hired to do.
Good thing the Suns corrected that mistake. Their new back to no defense plan has really paid dividends.

[pauls931]

Incase you didn't notice, D'antoni, Nash and Marion haven't accomplished shit. Shaq had four rings. Why do you think Shaq is the reason this team can't win a title?

They didn't make the right adjustments to accomodate shaq and porter, basically trying to fit square pegs into round holes. They sacrificed their best defensive player for shaq who is not too old to quickly rotate to cover when nash,barbosa or whoever get burned or hung up on pick.

Shaq was dominate the first 3 titles he got, the 4th not so much, but just enough as well as an assist from dallas choking. Shaq can help counter timmy, but he can't rotate to stop the parkers,CP3s, and ginobili's driving.

D'antoni, nash, and marion came close several times, may have made it if Amare and Diaw didn't step on the court that one game. (The spurs and suns were clearly the 2 best teams that year)

Basically I think they need 1 great perimeter defender and someone that will rotate from the weakside (Amare I'm talking to you). Unfortunately, I'm not aware of many physically gifted freaks like marion available.

Using my above theory, I think Barnes and Hill would be the oddmen out since Shaq unfortunately is probably impossible to unload unless they give him to a contender somehow and give up on next year which makes no sense if they keep nash.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Basically I think they need 1 great perimeter defender and someone that will rotate from the weakside (Amare I'm talking to you). Unfortunately, I'm not aware of many physically gifted freaks like marion available.


You're an idiot if you think that will make them a contender. Help defense only does so much. If Nash lets a player blow by him every time, it's not the help defense's problem. The reason Kidd had 20 assists was because someone helped off another player and Kidd found that player. I don't understand what's so hard to get about that.

The Suns would still be a crud defensive team if they had Marion.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

D'antoni, nash, and marion came close several times


That's cute. Maybe one day they'll give trophies out for coming close.

[pauls931]

You're an idiot if you think that will make them a contender. Help defense only does so much. If Nash lets a player blow by him every time, it's not the help defense's problem. The reason Kidd had 20 assists was because someone helped off another player and Kidd found that player. I don't understand what's so hard to get about that.

The Suns would still be a crud defensive team if they had Marion.

Well if they're planning on keeping nash, lets hear your solution.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Well if they're planning on keeping nash, lets hear your solution.


That's like asking a doctor, "Well if I don't feel like treating my fatal disease, what's your solution as to how I'm going to live?"


There is no way the will win with Nash. I know he's your BFF so that's hard to admit, but deal with it.

[pauls931]

That's like asking a doctor, "Well if I don't feel like treating my fatal disease, what's your solution as to how I'm going to live?"


There is no way the will win with Nash. I know he's your BFF so that's hard to admit, but deal with it.

Then you're going to have a couple long years if they do resign him. I'm just considering the case that he does get resigned that someone else in this thread mentioned. If he gets traded or moves, so be it. But if he stays, they have to do something to help him on D. And as I mentioned other younger players on the suns get left if their tracks too playing quicker guards, when this happens I see it as team defense failing.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Why can't they just tell him to man up and play defense? This allusion you have that the Spurs have a good defense merely cause of the team is wrong. If Parker was as bad on D as Nash was their D would suffer greatly.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Then you're going to have a couple long years if they do resign him.


So will you.....O crap....that's right.....I'm the Suns fan, you're the Nash fan. As long as Nash is on the Suns you're happy.

[pauls931]

So will you.....O crap....that's right.....I'm the Suns fan, you're the Nash fan. As long as Nash is on the Suns you're happy.

I am a nash fan and an amare fan. You're right. But you also have to accept that if they stay, those are the people the suns have to work with. Seriously I'd rather see nash go than Amare, but if they both stay then you have to consider what can be done to make the team better outside of them. And I stand by my view that their problems run deeper than just a pg and pf...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I am a nash fan and an amare fan. You're right. But you also have to accept that if they stay, those are the people the suns have to work with. Seriously I'd rather see nash go than Amare, but if they both stay then you have to consider what can be done to make the team better outside of them. And I stand by my view that their problems run deeper than just a pg and pf...


Which is why I want basically everyone gone. There's no way they can pinpoint the specific problems which is why they need to scrap the whole thing and start over.

And idk how many injuries, dumb decisions, attitude problems, distractions, and locker room conflicts Amare needs to have before you would want to trade him.

[pauls931]

Which is why I want basically everyone gone. There's no way they can pinpoint the specific problems which is why they need to scrap the whole thing and start over.

And idk how many injuries, dumb decisions, attitude problems, distractions, and locker room conflicts Amare needs to have before you would want to trade him.

The problem is, the time to trade amare was a year ago. They're not going to get fair value to him with questions about his eye. Trade him to the west and you'll get to see him dunking on the suns for the next 6 years or so. Send him east and you get squat.

Getting rid of Shaq is damn near impossible too. Out of Amare, Shaq, and Nash, I think nash is the easiest to move and get something worthwhile in return in the form of youth.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Trade him to the west and you'll get to see him dunking on the suns for the next 6 years or so.


That's such a dumb statement. Cool, he can dunk the ball. Dunks don't win games. Post up skills, defense, fundamental rebounding, and good decision making wins games. Amare has none of that.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

They're not going to get fair value to him with questions about his eye.


What exactly is fair value for a PF who can't create his own inside shot, is a liability on defense, is hated by every teammate he's ever had, and is more concerned with himself than the team?

[lil_penny]

Offer amare to memphis for conley and gasol.. then trade nash and someone else for kevin martin.. then figure out something with shaq

[pauls931]

What exactly is fair value for a PF who can't create his own inside shot, is a liability on defense, is hated by every teammate he's ever had, and is more concerned with himself than the team?

if(bArgumentStuckInLoop == true)
break; // used to help break out of loops...

[Ghazi]

Im sure the rebuilding Kings wanna get olderrr.

[Ghazi]

What exactly is fair value for a PF who can't create his own inside shot, is a liability on defense, is hated by every teammate he's ever had, and is more concerned with himself than the team?

JJ Hickson :bking

[Spursfan092120]

What exactly is fair value for a PF who can't create his own inside shot, is a liability on defense, is hated by every teammate he's ever had, and is more concerned with himself than the team?
But at least he's not a deadbeat.

[mojorizen7]

Amare(if you can't get a fair deal),Barbosa,Dragic,Duds,Lou,Barnes(if he comes cheap again).. and i guess the midget clown Robin Lopez.

[sook]

Nash, Hill, Barbosa..and thats it.

[IronMexican]

I'm rooting for Hill to play in all 82 games this season.

[Dex]

Johnson, Thomas, Marion, Bell, and Diaw

Oh, wait...

[pauls931]

Johnson, Thomas, Marion, Bell, and Diaw

Oh, wait...

That would be a pretty good squad, throw in a good bigman and you're gtg.