Bowen: First comes denial, then Frustration, Anger follows and finally Acceptance?

[Brazil]

Regarding the Finley / Bowen story maybe we are living in the past with Bowen being an elite defender, obviously Pop has evaluated that Bruce is no longer the elite stopper he was and that Finley is as good as him today but bring more on Offense. It seems also some journalists think the same way.

I still believe that Bruce needs more playing time to show what he is capable of, I cannot believe in one year he is going from elite Defender to Finley level of Defense BUT it's also possible that we don’t want to see the truth.

First comes denial, then Frustration, Anger follows and finally Acceptance.

We cannot accept the fact Bruce is now an average defender then we blame Pop for not giving minutes then we begin to think that an HOFer coach is out of his mind, stupid and stubborn, is it time to accept that Finley is our unique option today and we should stop blaming Pop for everything?

What do you think?

[Muser]

I'd take a 70 year old Bowen over Fin on Defence.

[SA210]

I'd take a 70 year old Bowen over Fin on Defence.

[GSH]

Yeah, Finley brings more offense - 10 points per game. The problem is, it's 16 points one night and 4 points the next. And the 16 is usually on nights when it doesn't make any difference.

But Pop doesn't mind inconsistency on the offensive end, as long as he is consistent on the defensive end. And if there's one thing you can say about Finley, it's that he's consistent on defense. He defends like the Kuwaiti military; let them roll over you and look for help.

[timaios]

I'd take a 70 year old Bowen over Fin on Defence.

[Brazil]

So Pop is crazy ? thats it ?

[Muser]

CIA Pop.

J/k.

I'm hoping Pop is just saving Bowen for PO.

[Brazil]

CIA Pop.

J/k.

I'm hoping Pop is just saving Bowen for PO.

I wish too but we cannot be blinded there are only 7 games remaining I can't believe that he is going to play heavy minutes in the POs when he is playing garbage time today. It's like asking Bolt running the 100 meters in minus 10 without any pre heating.

It won't happen, we will see 30-35 min of Finly during the POs and 10 for Bruce.

[tmtcsc]

No more denial for me. Apparently, Bruce has lost enough to not warrant significant floor time. I thought that CIA pop was limiting his minutes until the playoffs OR trying to get the team to stop relying on Bruce for defensive stops. Perhaps some of that is true but the reality is, Bruce is in his last year with us and is not a part of Pop's 2008-2009 plan.

I happen to think that he would still make a better option than Finley but what do I know ? At least put Bowen in the mix. Hell, maybe he has slowed down but he still has some mental mojo on people doesn't he ? I mean, if you are Kobe and you see Bruce guarding you instead of George Hill, don't you think twice about shooting that long 3 ? Maybe.

[sonic21]

i think pop was only thinking of a way of beating the lakers, he saw last year bruce couldn't guard kobe, so he was trying to add more offense hoping we would have a better chance against LA. imo that's why he was starting finley, mason and bonner instead of bruce (and KT). But lately their shots aren't falling so we suck.

[Obstructed_View]

Kobe had a hot shooting streak last year. Nobody has ever stopped Kobe when he's on a roll. All you can do is make him work for his shots, and Bowen did that. I have a difficult time believing that if you give Bowen all six of his fouls that he couldn't have prevented Lebron from scoring 18 points in the first quarter. And anybody that knows anything about basketball recognizes that shooting becomes easier once you've seen a few go in, so what little excuse there is for starting Finley disintegrates completely when Bowen wasn't subbed in immediately to help keep James in check.

[Brazil]

No more denial for me. Apparently, Bruce has lost enough to not warrant significant floor time. I thought that CIA pop was limiting his minutes until the playoffs OR trying to get the team to stop relying on Bruce for defensive stops. Perhaps some of that is true but the reality is, Bruce is in his last year with us and is not a part of Pop's 2008-2009 plan.

I happen to think that he would still make a better option than Finley but what do I know ? At least put Bowen in the mix. Hell, maybe he has slowed down but he still has some mental mojo on people doesn't he ? I mean, if you are Kobe and you see Bruce guarding you instead of George Hill, don't you think twice about shooting that long 3 ? Maybe.


Exactly my thought.

Morever I think in Pop's mind the idea is to try to win a last time with this core, assuming Bowen has lost a huge step on Defense he has chosen to give significant minutes to Mike because he doesn't trust new guys for the POs (TP is the only notable exception). He rather prefers going to the PO batle with his vets than giving a chance to the newbies like Hill or even Hairston. Right now Pop is not preparing the future which finally is the proof he still belives in this squad this year.

2010 will be the year of changes but 2009 will be the last try of this vet group and for whatever reason Mike took the big 4 status of Bruce.

[Dex]

I happen to think that he would still make a better option than Finley but what do I know ? At least put Bowen in the mix. Hell, maybe he has slowed down but he still has some mental mojo on people doesn't he ? I mean, if you are Kobe and you see Bruce guarding you instead of George Hill, don't you think twice about shooting that long 3 ? Maybe.

How does Kobe feel about having George Hill on him? His words exactly...


In those tense final minutes, with the Spurs having clawed within two, Bryant looked across the court to see a rookie guarding him. His first thought?

“Bake him.”

Bryant’s old rival, the man who had chased him through so many of those playoff battles, sat on the bench watching. Bruce Bowen doesn’t start games these days and, on many nights, he also doesn’t finish them.

But Thursday was different. With Roger Mason having picked up his fifth foul with two minutes left, the Spurs needed someone to put on Bryant. Gregg Popovich looked down his bench, past Bowen, and called on his rookie guard, George Hill.

“It’s just weird for me,” Bryant said, “because I’m so used to having [Bowen] draped all over me.”

http://asianfanatics.net/forum/Spurs-lacking-answers-for-Kobe-Lakers-talk635274.html

Obviously, Kobe respects Bruce and views playing against him as a challenge.

And he made playing against Hill look like child's play when he was breaking him down and rising up over him for three.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oddly enough, Bowen's contract has one partially guaranteed year left while Finley's contract has a player option for another full year, which we can reasonably expect will be exercised.

The Spurs can pay Bruce $4 mil next year or they can pay him $2 mil to go away. What do we expect the front office that gave away Scola for $ will do?

[fyatuk]

First comes denial, then Frustration, Anger follows and finally Acceptance.

Shouldn't that be denial, anger, bargaining, depression, then acceptance :p:

[poop]

pop doesnt really give a shit anymore, you can tell from his nose hes been drinking it up

[Brazil]

Shouldn't that be denial, anger, bargaining, depression, then acceptance :p:

In fact what are between denial and acceptance is not very interesting :) the good thing of all this shit is I had quite high expectations for this year, now I'm in the acceptance process so the next games my frustration will go down.

[SA210]

Awesome post Dex :tu

Someone send that to News4 who claims that Finley and Bruce are exactly the same defensively.:rolleyes

[ulosturedge]

All you guys know Pop determines playing time by how they perform in scrimmages and practices. I can't see Pop being completely blind. He must not be seeing Bowen doing the same things he was capable of doing even in practice which would translate to fewer minutes on the court. Pop gets to see more behind the scenes with Bowen then we do out there in a regular season game. Pop knows whats going on with his defense and if he thought Bruce was the answer I think he would have figured that out already. I can't believe he's that dumb, and thats why I think Bruce is done.

[objective]

i think pop was only thinking of a way of beating the lakers, he saw last year bruce couldn't guard kobe, so he was trying to add more offense hoping we would have a better chance against LA. imo that's why he was starting finley, mason and bonner instead of bruce (and KT). But lately their shots aren't falling so we suck.

From what I remember, in Game 1 Bowen had Kobe under control, the Spurs were up 20 with 6 minutes to go in the third, Bowen picks up only his third foul, and Pop inexplicably pulls Bowen from the game.

Kobe gets hot due to Bowen getting Popped, and the Spurs manage to lose the game, predictably get blown out in game 2 as expected for the road team coming off 7 games, and the series is lost.

[DaBears]

Thinking out loud here! So please dont Crucify me!!!!!!!

What about bringing TImmy off the bench... That will give you some firepower off the bench.
a go to guy. Start Gooden, then you can free up shooters like Mason, Bonner, bowen..

[DaBears]

You would be limiting his minutes, he would play against poor defensive players... I kind of like the idea. Shit if where willing to try Mason out a PT, and we know what kind of disaster that turned out to be. Whats harm. bet it wouldnt be as bad as that.

[Brazil]

Thinking out loud here! So please dont Crucify me!!!!!!!

What about bringing TImmy off the bench... That will give you some firepower off the bench.
a go to guy. Start Gooden, then you can free up shooters like Mason, Bonner, bowen..

The fact to be on the bench or off the bench doesn't matter which matters are the lineups and the mpg. If you say reduce Tim's minute for Gooden even if Tim is 80% healthy it would mean 0% chance to pass the 1st round.

[DAF86]

Regarding the Finley / Bowen story maybe we are living in the past with Bowen being an elite defender, obviously Pop has evaluated that Bruce is no longer the elite stopper he was and that Finley is as good as him today but bring more on Offense. It seems also some journalists think the same way.

I still believe that Bruce needs more playing time to show what he is capable of, I cannot believe in one year he is going from elite Defender to Finley level of Defense BUT it's also possible that we don’t want to see the truth.

First comes denial, then Frustration, Anger follows and finally Acceptance.

We cannot accept the fact Bruce is now an average defender then we blame Pop for not giving minutes then we begin to think that an HOFer coach is out of his mind, stupid and stubborn, is it time to accept that Finley is our unique option today and we should stop blaming Pop for everything?

What do you think?


Giving the fact that he keeps playing Vaughn and Udoka I'd say give Bowen a chance.

[Kori Ellis]

Just a couple weeks ago, he held various guys like Stephen Jackson and Jason Richardson in check for 28+ minutes a game. Unless something has happened to him in the last 10 days that we don't know about, he's 10 x better than the alternative.

I said it in another thread, but I'll say it again. If Manu/Tim were playing awesome, I might say it's a good idea to try to win with offense. But the Spurs aren't good enough to win on offense right now. So they need to clamp down on D. Clamping down on D means more Bowen, more Hill and more Thomas. Less Finley, less Vaughn and less Bonner (unless he's shooting lights out).

[DaBears]

Have you watched any of the games lately, believe what you want but You are getting 0% from Timmy now. I dont buy the knee problems all of a sudden. Excuses plain & simple. Duncan plays soft, he has no athletism in his body. I would not even be having this thought if he should just a glimpse or heart or fight in his game but he doesnt. And that bothers me. Minutes can be up just as much as he gets now, like Ginobli.

I am a big fan of Tim Duncan, but a bigger fan of the Spurs.

[Kori Ellis]

Have you watched any of the games lately, believe what you want but You are getting 0% from Timmy now. I dont buy the knee problems all of a sudden. Excuses plain & simple. Duncan plays soft, he has no athletism in his body. I would not even be having this thought if he should just a glimpse or heart or fight in his game but he doesnt. And that bothers me. Minutes can be up just as much as he gets now, like Ginobli.

I am a big fan of Tim Duncan, but a bigger fan of the Spurs.

:lol

Where have you been? The knee problems aren't "all of a sudden" and if you can't see that his knees are gimpy, then you obviously don't watch many Spurs games.

[DaBears]

Agreed Bowen should be in starting lineup, when and if he lucky enough to come in the game, there really is no one to sethim up for his shot. We know he is not the best dribbler in the game so he cant slash to the basket, or create is own shot. So Starting has worked in the past.

[Obstructed_View]

Have you watched any of the games lately, believe what you want but You are getting 0% from Timmy now. I dont buy the knee problems all of a sudden. Excuses plain & simple. Duncan plays soft, he has no athletism in his body. I would not even be having this thought if he should just a glimpse or heart or fight in his game but he doesnt. And that bothers me. Minutes can be up just as much as he gets now, like Ginobli.

I am a big fan of Tim Duncan, but a bigger fan of the Spurs.

This is just stupid. He's averaging 19 and 10 over the last month.

[Brazil]

I think Pop is just making a choice between what he (not me) considers today as an average defender with no offense skills (Bowen) and a below average defender with good offense skills (Finley). Regarding Hill he seems Pop won't trust a young player for the PO.

[DaBears]

by sudden i mean last 2 weeks. And like i stated earlier believe what you want!! truth is in the play... i dont care if i had sore knees or not i would be out on the floor getting more than 6 pts in a game. I have played ball and played with twisted ankles, sore knee and produced more. What all it comes down to is if you have HEART, FIGHT. Last night he should none and that bothered me and should bother spurs fans.

Now back to BB!!! Anyone

[DAF86]

I think Pop is just making a choice between what he (not me) considers today as an average defender with no offense skills (Bowen) and a below average defender with good offense skills (Finley). Regarding Hill he seems Pop won't trust a young player for the PO.

And what choices is he making when he plays Udoka and Vaughn?

[duncan228]

I still don't get how any Spurs fan can think that Duncan doesn't have heart. It's Duncan's heart, Duncan's fight, that have brought four Championships home.

[Kori Ellis]

Don't worry duncan228, the guy isn't a Spurs fan.

[duncan228]

Then it makes sense. Thanks Kori.

[Obstructed_View]

by sudden i mean last 2 weeks. And like i stated earlier believe what you want!! truth is in the play... i dont care if i had sore knees or not i would be out on the floor getting more than 6 pts in a game. I have played ball and played with twisted ankles, sore knee and produced more. What all it comes down to is if you have HEART, FIGHT. Last night he should none and that bothered me and should bother spurs fans.

Now back to BB!!! Anyone

Last two weeks
Points 17.9
Assists 2.6
Rebounds 9.6
Blocks 1.1

Next?

[Kori Ellis]

I think Pop is just making a choice between what he (not me) considers today as an average defender with no offense skills (Bowen) and a below average defender with good offense skills (Finley). Regarding Hill he seems Pop won't trust a young player for the PO.

No, I don't think he's even given up on Bowen's D. I think he's just making a choice of offense over defense. I just think that he's decided to let this team try to win with offense (huge mistake in my opinion). That's the same reason Bonner starts and why they'd pick up a guy like Gooden.

(I feel like I'm repeating myself... I typed nearly the same thing last night in the other thread(s) about Bowen. Sorry.)

[SA210]

Just a couple weeks ago, he held various guys like Stephen Jackson and Jason Richardson in check for 28+ minutes a game. Unless something has happened to him in the last 10 days that we don't know about, he's 10 x better than the alternative.

I said it in another thread, but I'll say it again. If Manu/Tim were playing awesome, I might say it's a good idea to try to win with offense. But the Spurs aren't good enough to win on offense right now. So they need to clamp down on D. Clamping down on D means more Bowen, more Hill and more Thomas. Less Finley, less Vaughn and less Bonner (unless he's shooting lights out).

I agree, but someone at News4 told me that Bruce is finished and has not done anything for us this year and isn't even capable of doing anything for us this year and that he's the same as Finley in regards to Defense.

:lmao

[Obstructed_View]

You'd think his track record is long enough to go back and evaluate the poor results when he tries to overthink the situation.

[Obstructed_View]

I agree, but someone at News4 told me that Bruce is finished and has not done anything for us this year and isn't even capable of doing anything for us this year and that he's the same as Finley in regards to Defense.

:lmao

That person is stupid. Of course, the coach of the Spurs seems to agree with him...

[sonic21]

Last two weeks
Points 17.9
Assists 2.6
Rebounds 9.6
Blocks 1.1

Next?

and he's playing at 70%, let's hope he'll be > 85% for the playoffs.

[SA210]

That person is stupid. Of course, the coach of the Spurs seems to agree with him...

That person is the Producer at News4 :depressed

[DAF86]

No, I don't think he's even given up on Bowen's D. I think he's just making a choice of offense over defense. I just think that he's decided to let this team try to win with offense (huge mistake in my opinion). That's the same reason Bonner starts and why they'd pick up a guy like Gooden.

(I feel like I'm repeating myself... I typed nearly the same thing last night in the other thread(s) about Bowen. Sorry.)

If that's the case then Pop is insane, tell me what does Fin bring at the offensive end that Bowen doesn't? the only thing they can both do is to hit the wide open jumper.

[Flux451]

Bowen needs PT asap. I hate seeing this mad chemist approach by Pop. I understand why he is doing up, but try something else this late in the season.

Why not pick our playoff team right now, play that rotation from now on and stick with it...fail or not cuz right now our players are not in rhythm. I don't see them getting into a good one with this rotation experiaments.

TOugh position to be in right now. I feel for our team.

[Brazil]

And what choices is he making when he plays Udoka and Vaughn?

He doesn't trust Hill for the POs he likes vets ! He tried Mase at the point and even a stubborn Pop realized it failed, with this logic he injected JV cauz the guy knows the playbook and thats it.
As for Udoka, when you consider Bowen finished (Pop not me), hairston not at nba level, manu injuries, what are your other options ?

[DaBears]

I bet bruce Bowen could'nt even guard The "Ice Man" right now. Tim could gaurd Greg ostertag right now.

Im just venting some steam here!!! I am sure SPURS should have their act together play 2nd round of playoffs

I have said this before and the fans agree, Bruce bowen should thank the Spurs for whatever success he has had, cause if it wasnt for the SPURS he would be the most famous Basketball coach out of cal state Fullerton.

[Brazil]

I have said this before and the fans agree, Bruce bowen should thank the Spurs for whatever success he has had, cause if it wasnt for the SPURS he would be the most famous Basketball coach out of cal state Fullerton.

Pop or Bruce ?

[Kori Ellis]

I bet bruce Bowen could'nt even guard The "Ice Man" right now. Tim could gaurd Greg ostertag right now.

Im just venting some steam here!!! I am sure SPURS should have their act together play 2nd round of playoffs

I have said this before and the fans agree, Bruce bowen should thank the Spurs for whatever success he has had, cause if it wasnt for the SPURS he would be the most famous Basketball coach out of cal state Fullerton.

Bruce was already one of the best defenders in the league in Miami. I'm sure he would have had a long NBA career, even if he didn't come to the Spurs. He was a big part of the title years, and he took paycuts twice to help keep this team intact in the last few years. Have some respect.

[DaBears]

I'll let you pick!!

[DaBears]

I respect the those who deserve respect its not given its earned. I respect his character and his passion for the game. He is the model of (what a leader should be) of what it means to work hard and make your dreams come true. But as a basketball player when he he's on the floor you are playin 4 on 5 and thats a fact.
And as a fan you have the right to make that opinion. And he has never been offered top money to play for Miami or the Spurs.

[Yuixafun]

Pounding that rock.

Cross your fingers, light a candle and pray that the floodgates open during the playoffs and our shooters go on one hell of a hot streak for a month.

[Kori Ellis]

I respect the those who deserve respect its not given its earned. I respect his character and his passion for the game. He is the model of (what a leader should be) of what it means to work hard and make your dreams come true. But as a basketball player when he he's on the floor you are playin 4 on 5 and thats a fact.
And as a fan you have the right to make that opinion. And he has never been offered top money to play for Miami or the Spurs.

You must not have been a Spurs fan long if you think Bruce Bowen doesn't deserve respect for his game. His defense has helped anchor the Spurs winning ways for the last several years and he's been a huge part of why they have won the last 3 championships.

Additionally, he opted out of his contract and signed back for less so that the Spurs would have money to sign Manu (among others). He had an offer from Portland for 20-something million at that point. He has taken less money from the Spurs twice to help save money for other players.

You can have your own opinion, but it's definitely off-base if you don't value what Bowen has meant to the Spurs on the court and off.

[DaBears]

If he made that much of a difference he'd be in the game, instead of sitting on the bench during crunchtime. But he's not... And he wasnt one of Miami best when he played there the year before he came to SA he was on his way to being waived. If you dont leave me do your own research....

I have never doubted his contributions to past championships he was a factor.

I guess my point to all this is we would won those rings whether we had him or not.

[DaBears]

Becuase of the style of player he is, i only see him starting, since he cant create his own offense, & needs to be setup for his shot. Bench is not a viable spot for him to contribute. Or i guess you can be a bonehead and bench him like our coach. Fr someone who doesnt like to change things up is now mixing it up more than the Obama Administration.

[Kori Ellis]

If he made that much of a difference he'd be in the game, instead of sitting on the bench during crunchtime. But he's not... And he wasnt one of Miami best when he played there the year before he came to SA he was on his way to being waived. If you dont leave me do your own research....

I have never doubted his contributions to past championships he was a factor.

I guess my point to all this is we would won those rings whether we had him or not.

He was 2nd Team All-NBA Defense in Miami. So I guess I'm not the one who needs to do my research.

And the Spurs would not have won all of the last three rings without Bowen. DRob, Tim, Tony and Manu will all tell you the same thing.

[SA210]

If he made that much of a difference he'd be in the game, instead of sitting on the bench during crunchtime. But he's not... And he wasnt one of Miami best when he played there the year before he came to SA he was on his way to being waived. If you dont leave me do your own research....

I have never doubted his contributions to past championships he was a factor.

I guess my point to all this is we would won those rings whether we had him or not.

That is so wrong it's ridiculous. :td

[Amuseddaysleeper]

You mean to tell me there are Spurs fans out there who are okay with Bowen riding the pine?? Are you kidding me??


I mean really?

[Silverheart80]

You must not have been a Spurs fan long if you think Bruce Bowen doesn't deserve respect for his game. His defense has helped anchor the Spurs winning ways for the last several years and he's been a huge part of why they have won the last 3 championships.

Additionally, he opted out of his contract and signed back for less so that the Spurs would have money to sign Manu (among others). He had an offer from Portland for 20-something million at that point. He has taken less money from the Spurs twice to help save money for other players.

You can have your own opinion, but it's definitely off-base if you don't value what Bowen has meant to the Spurs on the court and off.

+1 :toast

[DaBears]

sure ok you believe that!!!!!

[SA210]

You mean to tell me there are Spurs fans out there who are okay with Bowen riding the pine?? Are you kidding me??


I mean really?

That's what the hell I don't understand. WTH! Really! :bang:bang:bang

[z0sa]

And the Spurs would not have won all of the last three rings without Bowen. DRob, Tim, Tony and Manu will all tell you the same thing.

AFAIC, Bruce Bowen is the REAL 2007 Finals MVP. Without his incredible defense on James, the entire series is different. Sure Parker deserved it, but Bowen IMO made the biggest contribution by shutting down James.

[DaBears]

I will concede to all of this cause i still believe in the Spurs and will continue to watch whether they are 20-62 as years past or 52-30 like this year. (Yes its a prediction)

[DaBears]

If we continue to play the way there are i would agree.......

[DaBears]

Now is the time we seperate the banwagon riders from the real deal

[SA210]

AFAIC, Bruce Bowen is the REAL 2007 Finals MVP. Without his incredible defense on James, the entire series is different. Sure Parker deserved it, but Bowen IMO made the biggest contribution by shutting down James.


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71220

[Libri]

I will concede to all of this cause i still believe in the Spurs and will continue to watch whether they are 20-62 as years past or 52-30 like this year. (Yes its a prediction)

I also went through the 21-61 in 1988-89 and the two years before that.

[timvp]

Now is the time we seperate the banwagon riders from the real dealAny fan who thought Bowen was worthless for the last seven years is the definition of a bandwagon rider.

See you on the come 'round.

[traitoravery]

Bruce was in my dream last night... He was crying and apologizing. He said he just wasn't the same and he wanted me to know that. I am serious it was a weird ass dream.

[DaBears]

define worthless

[Duncan2177]

So Pop is crazy ? thats it ?

Yup

[DaBears]

playoff starting lineup: 2nd unit:

PG-TP C-KT
SG-RMJ SF-MF
SF-BB SG-MG
PF-MB PF-TD
C-DG PG-GH

[iamdmann]

But as a basketball player when he he's on the floor you are playin 4 on 5 and thats a fact.

if by that you mean he shuts down any player he's assigned to defend and still can knock down the occasional corner three. you're right, it is like the spurs playing 4 on 5. give bruce some pt, bring george back in. before manu went out the rotations with bowen and hill were doing well. then we added gooden. go back to the old rotations and put gooden in more - which is a huge upgrade for the second unit - and i don't think things will look nearly as bad as they have recently. i would have liked to see MH have more time, but there's always next year...if he gets another shot.

[hater]

Bowen has not shown any major slowdown. He is by far best defender in SPurs and not only that, he makes the whole team defense better when he is in.

playing him 20+ mpg is a nobrainer

[DaBears]

Does anyone remember former spurs player Lloyd daniels.... Wonder what happened to that guy. heard he runs a recreation gym some where.

Off the wall topics just thought i'd throw that out there, willie anderson i believe lives in Louisiana.

[DaBears]

What i find so funny is how all of us can say and comment on the same thing about bowen starting, but POP doesnt see it and he is the so called Professional. Can anyone explain it. Why some ametures like us see the solution but not him.

[Brazil]

Bowen has not shown any major slowdown. He is by far best defender in SPurs and not only that, he makes the whole team defense better when he is in.

playing him 20+ mpg is a nobrainer

How Pop cannot see that then ?

[z0sa]

I want some prime examples on how Bowen lost some steps. It seems this is everyones excuse but I don't see anyone backing it up.

His lack of PT nowadays points the most obvious finger for those who dare to use it.

Bowen, if he has lost anything (I don't think he has), is still the best defender on the team.

[HarlemHeat37]

I've posted this before..Bowen's great games since January..not good or above average games(he's had a bunch of those too), but GREAT games he's had..

vs. Houston: completely shut down Artest after he was dominating us..too bad Pop didn't bring him in until the 4th..his ball denial was a thing of beauty..

vs. Minnesota: played an all-around great defensive game..did a great job on both Gomes and Foye..

vs. Boston: completely shut down Paul Pierce, including a memorable weak side block..

vs. Portland: shut down Brandon Roy, annoyed him all game..

vs. Detroit: vintage Bowen in this game..one of his best of the season..

vs. NJ: shut down Carter, after Vince was dominating our entire D..

vs. NO: played only the entire 2nd quarter, but obviously it ended up being New Orleans lowest point total by quarter and FG% by quarter for the game..

vs. Utah: came in and completely shut down Mehmet Okur, after Okur was dominating us for the first 3 quarters..

vs. LA: played solid D against Kobe, making him go 4-11..Pop doesn't put him on Kobe the rest of the game though..

vs. NJ: shut down VC again..

vs. Indiana: very solid performance against Danny Granger..

vs. Chicago: held Ben Gordon scoreless for the last 10 minutes of the game..

vs. Miami: played great D on Wade, forced a lot of turnovers, got him off his game..

vs. Memphis: played great D on both Mayo and Gay..actually, in all the Memphis games this season, they've managed to dominate all of our defenders outside of Bowen IIRC..

I'll expand it to the rest of the season..

vs. Memphis: played great all-around D on everybody, and completely shut down Rudy Gay..one of his better games this season..

vs. NO: forced 3 turnovers in his 15 minutes of playing time..was by far the best defender on the team during this game..

vs. Dallas: arguably his best performance of the season..he shut down Dirk down the stretch, including a memorable block..he played great D on Terry and Barea..had a +21 impact, which led the team..

vs. Denver: one of the best Bowen performances I've ever seen..he fucked with Carmelo Anthony's head in a major way..he forced Anthony into 5 turnovers, including multiple offensive fouls..Anthony picked up a technical foul out of clear frustration with Bowen's antics..

vs. Chicago: was able to play great D on Derrick Rose..a young, extremely athletic and quick PG..

vs. Memphis: shut down Mayo, forcing him to 3 points in the 1st half..Mayo's stats looked good in the 2nd half, but the game was out of reach when he was able to do his damage..


YES he's had some bad games, particularly against Durant and Joe Johnson..but it's impossible for a defensive player not to have some bad games..he's also playing an extremely difficult role, which is to come in the game and be a fire extinguisher..that's extremely tough to do against great scorers..

sure, he's lost a step..but he's still a good defensive player, and he's certainly better than our other options..I can probably count less than 5 great defensive games from Finley and Udoka combined..

there's absolutely no reason for him not to play..it's not like Ime gives us better offense..the only thing he does better than Bowen is pass the ball..Bowen makes 3s better, and he has much better shot selection..

Finley is obviously a better option offensively, but he's inconsistent as fuck..

I might have made a few mistakes in the research, but I doubt it, so doubters can look it up..I wouldn't make this shit up..I love Bowen, but I'm a Spurs fan before anything..so if I felt like he wouldn't help the team, I wouldn't want him on the floor..he clearly does help the team though..

[Brazil]

His lack of PT nowadays points the most obvious finger for those who dare to use it.

Bowen, if he has lost anything (I don't think he has), is still the best defender on the team.

The lack of PT doesn't enable us to have an objective opinion, he is not playing so it's kind of difficult to know if he has lost a step or 2 or not.

So I agree untill demonstrating the contrary he is still the best defender on the team like Boston is still the NBA champion.

Nevertheless what we don't know is: Bruce performance/shape during the training, only the team knows. At this point we cannot exclude that Bruce is struggling bad during the trainings.

[Obstructed_View]

That person is the Producer at News4 :depressed

Wow. Can he feed himself?

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/DefaultStyle/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3262225#post3262225)

Last two weeks
Points 17.9
Assists 2.6
Rebounds 9.6
Blocks 1.1

Next?

Thoses states are no supstar stats!! If Duncan is going to put up those numbers in the playoffs we might as well just pack it in. Now

[Myrak]

Last two weeks
Points 17.9
Assists 2.6
Rebounds 9.6
Blocks 1.1

Next?


Originally Posted by Obstructed_View http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/DefaultStyle/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3262225#post3262225)

Last two weeks
Points 17.9
Assists 2.6
Rebounds 9.6
Blocks 1.1

Next?

Thoses states are no supstar stats!! If Duncan is going to put up those numbers in the playoffs we might as well just pack it in. Now

I agree. Those are average stats. Tony is our lone Super Star at this point. I would not replace Timmy with any other player though. But, I would start Bruce over Finley, and let Tony shoot 5 or 6 times more per game.

I blame POP for our problems. Even with all the injuries, he just is not getting folks comfortable and into their roles. Coaching has cost us 4 or 5 games of late.

[DaBears]

IF Duncan get get 24pts, 11reb, 2blks a game and TP averages 23pts 7.5 assists per game & 2 steals 1 blk a game and everyon else on the team hits a toal of 5 3-pointers a game for the playoffs and play some tight defense limit the TO's & shoot over a 45% FG average we gota a shot at making it to the WCF.

[DaBears]

Oh have i mentioned we needs to create some turnovers and open up the fastbreak game too. Its much harder to manufracture offense win you are not getting easy points here and there.

[Brazil]

At least we have a definitive answer for this thread !!

[SA210]

Bruce needs to start!

[Solid D]

Just a couple weeks ago, he held various guys like Stephen Jackson and Jason Richardson in check for 28+ minutes a game. Unless something has happened to him in the last 10 days that we don't know about, he's 10 x better than the alternative.

I said it in another thread, but I'll say it again. If Manu/Tim were playing awesome, I might say it's a good idea to try to win with offense. But the Spurs aren't good enough to win on offense right now. So they need to clamp down on D. Clamping down on D means more Bowen, more Hill and more Thomas. Less Finley, less Vaughn and less Bonner (unless he's shooting lights out).

+10M :flag:

[Brazil]

Exactly !!

[peskypesky]

Defense wins championships. Pop knows that. Bruce will be getting big minutes in the playoffs. I've said it all year and I'm still saying it.

[SA210]

Defense wins championships. Pop knows that. Bruce will be getting big minutes in the playoffs. I've said it all year and I'm still saying it.


Yea, but that wasn't Pop's plan. I don't buy it. If he plays Bruce now as he should, it's only cuz he opened his eyes.

Bruce needs to start. We have enough offense in our starting lineup.

It should be TD, Gooden, Tony, BRUCE, Mason

[peskypesky]

Yea, but that wasn't Pop's plan. I don't buy it. If he plays Bruce now as he should, it's only cuz he opened his eyes.

Bruce needs to start. We have enough offense in our starting lineup.

It should be TD, Gooden, Tony, BRUCE, Mason

You're preaching to the choir, my friend.

:toast

[Brazil]

Yea, but that wasn't Pop's plan. I don't buy it. If he plays Bruce now as he should, it's only cuz he opened his eyes.

Bruce needs to start. We have enough offense in our starting lineup.

It should be TD, Gooden, Tony, BRUCE, Mason

I'm not sure about starting Gooden, we need punch and scoring for the second unit !

[Mugen]

if bonner continues to play like this then i say we sit him and try give fabby a run these last couple of games, cuz if bonner aint hitting shots then he has no purpose at all to be out there.

hopefully fab's heart is ok.

im all for starting bruce and benching fin. i agree that the 2nd unit needs goodens scoring

[SA210]

I'm not sure about starting Gooden, we need punch and scoring for the second unit !

Yea that's cool, but we need Bruce starting.

[Brazil]

For me we should go with Tim mason tp bruce and bonner depending on the match ups or fab if he is ok
second unit hill fin gooden ime kurt - gooden for the scoring and kurt for defense and rebound

[Brazil]

Yea that's cool, but we need Bruce starting.

we are in line !!!:toast

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Brazil, you forgot self-pity, and bargaining! :lol

Oh, and frustration=anger.

[Brazil]

Brazil, you forgot self-pity, and bargaining! :lol

Oh, and frustration=anger.

shit I made a weak copy paste of a google article title, I was hoping that nobody would notice... :lol